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First Move with Julia Chatterley

Coming Up: Officials Probe Motives For Texas Mass Shooting; Coming Up: U.S. Braces For High-Stakes Debt Ceiling Talks; Russia Evacuates Civilians From Zaporizhzhia Region. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired May 08, 2023 - 09:00   ET



ZAIN ASHER, CNNI HOST: A warm welcome to First Move. I'm Zain Asher in for Julia Chatterley. Just ahead on today's show, Texas tragedy. Officials say

right wing extremism may have played a part in this weekend's deadly mass shooting at a Texas mall. We are live for you in Allen Texas with the very


Plus, battle growing. Russia evacuates civilians from occupied South- eastern Ukraine ahead of an anticipated Ukrainian counter offensive. And debt drama. A high stakes meeting set for tomorrow in Washington as the

U.S. rushes towards a possible debt default.

Tuesday's debt ceiling negotiations will be a key driver of sentiment for global investors this week. On Wall Street, a cautious start to the trading

day. All top U.S. stocks on track for mixed open as you can see there on your screen. Europe little bit higher as well so new strength in U.S.

regional banks. Pacwest whose shares lost almost half of their value last week is set to rally more than 35 percent in early trading.

It's cutting its dividend -- dividends to help stabilize operations and it says its business remains 'sound.' Other regional banks like Western

Alliance are also set to advance as well. And today the U.S. Federal Reserve releases a report on just how much banks are limiting credit in the

wake of the recent bank failures here in the U.S. So much to get through this hour with you.

We want to begin with the very latest in Ukraine. Russia, evacuating civilians from the Zaporizhzhia region ahead of an anticipated Ukrainian

counter offensive. The move raising concerns about the safety of Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, the largest in Europe.

Meanwhile, the head of the Wagner mercenary group is now suggesting his troops will stay in Bakhmut, after all, saying the Russian defense ministry

has actually promised him more ammunition. Nic Robertson is joining us live now.

So Nic, let's start with what the UN's nuclear power watchdog is saying. They're saying the situation around this power plant is precarious, to say

the least, is very dangerous, especially considering that there is a counter offensive likely brewing obviously by Ukrainian troops in the area

as well. What more can you tell us?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the concern is that the Russian backed authorities have been moving civilians out of the neighboring town

to that power plant where some of the workers at the power plant actually work. So, there's a concern that civilians vital to the safe working at the

power plant won't be there to provide that service. So that's one level of concern. The other concern is that a counter offensive because Russian

forces are based at the power plant itself, in and around it, therefore, that -- that that could damage potentially the power plant and its safety

and security.

And of course, the IAEA has spent a lot of time and effort to try to organize a peace plan around the power plant, but the other parts of the

frontline, the Eastern Bakhmut also causing concern for the Ukrainian government. They're worried despite what the mercenary boss, Yevgeny

Prigozhin of Wagner has been saying that he was going to pull his troops out over the next couple of days if he didn't get more ammunition.

What Ukrainian authorities are actually seeing there and experiencing is an increase in artillery fired by Russian forces. And there is a level of

concern that because tomorrow is the big Victory Day parade in Moscow on Red Square, they think Vladimir Putin would like nothing better than to

declare Bakhmut, a victory. And they're determined to stop that.

So, there is intensive fire on many parts of the Eastern Front Line, we've been able to -- where we're standing here, hear some heavy artillery in the

distance, but that big counter offensive that gets much discussion and debate. There isn't, I would say, a lot of evidence that it's about to

happen. And of course, Ukrainian officials and the Ukrainian military are not giving any clues about where it could happen, or when it could happen.

But it doesn't appear to be around here and it doesn't appear to be anytime soon.

ASHER: All right. Nic Robertson live for us there. Thank you so much.

In Russia, preparations are now underway for Tuesday's Victory Day celebration, as Nic Robertson was just talking about their celebration

marks the defeat of Nazi Germany in 1945. Moscow typically uses the Victory Day parade to show off its military might. Claire Sebastian is joining us

live now.


So, Claire, when you think about just what's happened this past week, what the Kremlin has had to deal with obviously drone attacks for example. You

have Prigozhin threatening mutiny as well obviously he since walked that back but literally threatening to pull his troops out of Bakhmut. Just walk

us through how all of that threatens to cloud the celebrations for Victory Day in Moscow.

CLAIRE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Zain, I think it's clear and frankly, it was clear even before the events of this week that the war is

taking its toll on this critically important day in Russian life. This is perhaps the biggest day of the year for Russian, it's hard to overstate its

importance, but we are seeing already that celebrations are being scaled back in some areas, particularly regions, close to Ukraine, some canceling

parades, others canceling things, like fireworks display.

There's a -- there's a -- there's an event called the immortal regiment where Russians tend to walk carrying pictures of relatives that died in the

Second World War. Of course, Russian losses were the biggest of any country by an order of magnitude in the Second World War. That has been canceled.

There's speculation that there's concern that could have drawn attention to the losses in Ukraine.

We are still going to see as you see these rehearsals here, these shows of military might, ballistic missiles, armored vehicles being paraded around

Russian cities and Red Square in Moscow. But that does not reflect the reality of this war in Ukraine. We are seeing that Russia unable to produce

enough weapons to replace its losses is now having to dig even deeper into its historical stockpiles to try to sustain this war.


JOHN DELANEY, SENIOR CURATOR, IMPERIAL WAR MUSEUM: What a missile will do is it'll fly over the tank then down under 90 degrees straight into the top

of the turret, which is less well defended.

SEBASTIAN: This scenario has played out hundreds of times over the past 14 months. Ukraine using Western weapons to devastating effect. Russia,

according to one recent estimate has lost up to half its operational tank fleet in this war. Now Western officials say Russia's dusting off much

older models to replace them.

DELANEY: This gun was used on the SU 100 tank destroyer in 1944. So, it's a Second World War gun.

SEBASTIAN: Including the T55, first built in the 1940s. This one now housed at the Imperial War Museum outside Cambridge. Satellite imagery for a

storage facility in Russia's Far East showing dozens of tanks have been removed in the last year. This image showing the T55 at that same facility.

Video that first surfaced in March also showing a train load on the move, reportedly somewhere in Russia. The Russian Ministry of Defense hasn't

confirmed their deployment. But in recent weeks, well connected Russian bloggers have begun showing T55s in Russian occupied territory in Ukraine.

DELANEY: There's so many of these were manufactured over 100,000 altogether, and the parts, the basic mechanical parts are all

interchangeable. So, there will be vast stockpiles of these.

SEBASTIAN: The T55 was a central piece of the Soviet Union's Cold War arsenal, helping crushed democratic uprisings in Eastern Europe, Hungary in

1956, the Prague Spring 12 years later.

But by the time Iraq used them in the Gulf War in the early 90s -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We took all total 14 T55 tanks.

SEBASTIAN: --they were already outclassed by U.S. M1 Abrams, and British Challengers. Earlier versions of the tanks NATO countries are now supplying

to Ukraine.

TREVOR TAYLOR, PROFESSIONAL FELLOW IN DEFENCE, RUSI: I think faced with Western weapons, the Russians must expect very heavy casualties if they

expect to move forward using that type of system.

SEBASTIAN: Experts say behind the official propaganda Russia cannot build new weapons quick enough. The Western sanctions primarily targeting

Russia's access to higher tech parts for weapons have made it much harder for them to manufacture more modern equipment. Older simpler tanks like

this, 1000s of them just sitting in storage provide an alternative. But this against say, a Leopard 2 or a Challenger, what happens?

DELANEY: If it's a one-on-one tank engagement over a reasonable distance, this will lose every time but in in wooded or closer built environments,

this is adequate.

SEBASTIAN: It's also simpler to maintain and train on the newer systems, an advantage for rushes mobilized troops.

DELANEY: Bigger pit, seated sit the tank in the pit so you can only see the turret. And then that can be used to defend the frontline against the


SEBASTIAN: Russia is now digging in with everything it has, as Ukraine gets ready for what may be its biggest counter offensive yet.


SEBASTIAN: Well, this clearly shows that Ukraine may have the edge when it comes to qualities and with the Western weapons that they continue to take

delivery of but Russia may be able to bring quantity to bear with these older weapons and that means that the outcome is not at all clear cut

especially as Russia gets ready to do more defending than attacking if Ukraine launches this promised counter offensive.


Obviously in the context of Victory Day critical to note that President Zelensky has also compared Russia's actions in Ukraine to the Nazi regime

and is promising to move Victory Day in Ukraine. He's -- he's launching a bill with the with the government there to move Victory Day in Ukraine to

the eighth of May where Europe celebrates it rather than the ninth of May, where Russia celebrates it. Zain.

ASHER: Claire Sebastian, live for us there. Thank you so much. Right, another city in Texas is in mourning. Again, after a mass shooting left

eight people dead and seven wounded over the weekend. And now we're learning a little bit more about the shooter's background.

Our sources telling CNN authorities are investigating whether the gunman was influenced by right wing extremism. Police say that the gunman was

killed at the scene. Josh Campbell joins us live now from Allen, Texas. Do we know yet Josh, definitively whether or not this was an act of domestic


JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That is some something that certainly investigators are looking at. And they're starting to key in on

that potential extremist connection here. And that is because I'm told that after the shooting happened, the suspect was obviously fatally shot by an

officer at this mall behind me.

And as they looked over the suspect, on his chest, they found an insignia that read RWDS which they believe stands for Right Wing Death Squad. It's

the same type of insignia that we've seen here across the United States at various protests over the past few years by members of extremist groups.

I'm also told the authorities are looking over a trove of digital evidence, the suspect had an incredible, incredibly large footprint online to include

social media accounts. And I'm told that as investigators were looking at that, they found various posts that pertain to white supremacist as well as

neo-Nazi type material that they believe the suspect himself had posted online.

So, we're getting more and more about him as they drill down to try to figure out what it was that was motivating this person. Now, I'm also told

from a source that this attack that happened here, as bad as it was, and it was awful. Obviously, it could have been so much worse, because we know

that officer took down that stuff back on the suspect's person, they found multiple extra magazines, as well as that high powered assault rifle.

The suspect obviously came here with several, several rounds of ammunition trying to cause mass death at this mall. Again, he was intercepted by an

officer and ultimately taken down. This was a chaotic scene as people were fleeing, I want you to listen to one witness who talked to CNN who was in

the pathway of the shooter, as he was making his way inside.


BILL MCLEAN, SHOOTING WITNESS: We basically turn to watch and as we were watching the shooter goes right across, he's not running, but he's kind of

in a deliberate assault type mood, and he either had a an M16, or an M4 carbine.

And he was firing and shot about four or five shots as he proceeded toward the hamburger place, so I don't know who he shot. And a few moments later,

we saw a police officer come across in front of us like he was in pursuit of the individual.


CAMPBELL: And this is a live look here of a makeshift memorial that has been set up outside of this Outlet mall. Crosses setup for the eight

victims who were killed in this attack. Of course, so many more were injured. And as we continue to cover this and focus on the investigation

and the motive and the background of the shooter, obviously, first and foremost for our minds and members of the public and the community here

certainly are the victims themselves.

Of course, eight deceased Zain. And for those multiple people that were injured, they face a long road to recovery.

ASHER: Yes, you're right. Our thoughts do go to the family members of the victims. I mean, what a horrific phone call to have to receive, of course,

that community still processing what happened over the weekend. Josh Campbell live for us there. Thank you so much.

I want to turn now to an unfolding humanitarian crisis in India. Officials say that more than 50 people have died this month, as ethnic violence

flares in the state of Manipur in northeast India. Hundreds more have been injured and tens of thousands of people have been displaced. Vedika Sud is

live for us in New Delhi. Just Vedika, just walk us through what's prompted the fighting between the Kuki and Meitei tribes, just walk us through that.

VEDIKA SUD, CNN REPORTER: Before I get to that, Zain, I just want to mention that the numbers that you've just mentioned yourself the death

toll, those who have been displaced, as well as the injured which stands at over 200, these figures have not come from the Manipur state government.

It's usually you know the state government that puts out these numbers but in this case, they've been mum.

CNN has reached out to them repeatedly, but they've refused to share any information with us. We actually had to send our teams to separate and

different hospitals in the area to get the death toll numbers and that's what we've put together. It stands at 55. We're expecting the death toll to

perhaps rise over the next few days but here's what happened.


Last week, these two communities that you're talking about the Kuki and Meitei community, now the Meitei community is predominantly a Hindu

community and it actually has a population which accounts and amounts to more than 50 percent of Manipur's 3 million population and the Kuki

community is a tribal group. And they're a small community in Manipur, in north-eastern India.

Northeastern India, and Manipur actually shares a border with Myanmar. So very quickly, let me just tell you what happened. Now the Meitei community

wants to get the status of a tribal group, which means they would be accorded some special benefits that are given to tribal groups and the

tribal group here and in this case, the Kukis said, this is not possible. You shouldn't be doing this.

Why should they get benefits when they are the larger community within Manipur. So, there was a protest that they led last week which turned

violent, it sparked clashes between the two communities. This led to arson violence and the burning down of several homes in Manipur.

Now what we're hearing from the Indian Army is that the situation today is under control. But the streets bear a very deserted look Zain, which means

that there is fragile calm in the area. The Manipur Chief Minister has come out and said the situation is slowly returning to normalcy. But of course,

there's fear, there's tension, and the fear of reprisal is something that both the communities are very, very anxious about at this point.

There has been no word from the Indian Prime Minister yet. This is a state that is governed by his ruling party, the Bharatiya Janta party. But for

now, those displaced really don't want to go home. They fear that there could be a repeat of this. And there really are no assurance is coming from

the state government at this point. There has been no press conference from the Chief Minister assuring them that they can go home yet, Zain.

ASHER: Right. Vedika Sud live for us there. Thank you so much. We'll be right back with more after this short break.


ASHER: All right, welcome back to First Move. The clock is ticking towards the possible U.S. government debt default. President Joe Biden is expected

to meet congressional leaders tomorrow after the vast majority of Senate Republicans said they would refuse to raise the debt ceiling unless there

are spending cuts. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen says that the U.S. government could default as soon as June, June 1 actually if Congress

doesn't act.



JANET YELLEN, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: These negotiations should not take place with a gun, really to the head of the American people. It simply is

unacceptable for Congress to threaten economic calamity for American households and the global financial system.


ASHER: Lauren Fox joins us live now. So, President Biden meeting Republican leaders tomorrow, both sides really digging in their heels here. Given

that, what can we expect?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think this meeting is really a question of whether or not both the Republicans and the Biden

administration are going to be able to recalibrate their sticking positions over the last several months.

It's been about 100 days since Kevin McCarthy, the House Speaker sat down with President Biden to discuss this issue. They really haven't had a

communication sense about the debt ceiling. Now, this deadline is coming up quickly, with just eight days when lawmakers are going to be here in

Washington to figure this out.

That's not to say lawmakers can negotiate with the president via the telephone. But that just gives you a sense of the urgency heading into this

potential June 1 deadline that the Treasury Secretary laid out.

The question coming out of tomorrow's meeting is whether or not both sides are going to be starting to work together again, to find some kind of

resolution. The key sticking point has been Republicans are arguing they will not increase the debt ceiling without promises of spending cuts.

Meanwhile, the Democrats have been arguing that the debt ceiling should be raised without any spending cuts as it has been in the past. Is there a

two-track way to move the negotiating post further? That's the big question going into tomorrow's meeting. It's just not clear right now, whether or

not either side is feeling the urgency of the moment right now. It's still to be determined if they can find a solution before this deadline.

ASHER: Before June 1. All right. Lauren Fox live for us there. Thank you so much.

All right. Joining us now is Kristina Hooper, Chief Global Market Strategist at Invesco. Kristina, so good to see you. So, you just heard

what Lauren Fox was saying there about the debt ceiling deadline. The debt ceiling in the U.S. has been raised, extended, etc, over 78 times, 78 times

roughly, since 1960. And we're used to negotiations going down to the wire, but waiting until the last minute can have really significant consequences

on business, and especially on consumer confidence.

KRISTINA HOOPER, CHIEF GLOBAL MARKET STRATEGIST, INVESCO: Absolutely 78 times, but who's counting? This could be more. This could be more

significant, though, because we have a very politically strained environment in a variety of different ways. I don't think it was in

anyone's bingo card, that it would take 25 rounds of voting to elect a Speaker of the House this year.

And I think that because of that there is a heightened concern that we might not get a resolution soon, that this could actually be worse than the

summer of 2011. And if you recall, it took a little while to come to agreement. And that had significant consequences in several different ways

and certainly impacted markets. So that is the big fear. But we always hold out hope that a resolution can be reached.

ASHER: And in terms of what else investors are watching this year, this week, not this year. Overall, this year, I guess, but especially this week,

CPI coming out on Wednesday. We also have PPI this week. When it comes to the Fed, obviously they're looking at the data here very, very closely. Do

you anticipate any kind of good news from the position of the Fed?

I mean, they've talked about potentially, I mean, they've intimated that potentially they could pause rate hikes. But given the jobs report that we

saw on Friday, I mean, where do you see that going? That was a lot of questions in one, by the way.

HOOPER: I'll try to answer at least some of them.


HOOPER: So, my read on the Feds' announcement last week is that we are in a de facto conditional pause, just based on the language they used, it was

very similar to the language used in 2006 when the Fed ended hiking rates. They always want to have some caveats in there and an ability to step back


At the end of the day, they are data dependent, which means that there certainly is a heightened sensitivity to the data, and they could step it

back in and hike rates more. I think what we're going to see is generally progress when it comes to inflation moving downward, but it's not going to

be clean. So, there could be a data point that spikes a bit.

It's going to be a lumpy journey down. So, the question becomes whether or not the Fed is satisfied with progress. And I think it largely will be. I

think that the standard has changed for another rate hike. And so, I would imagine that we aren't going to see any more rate hikes. Keep in mind

there's one other thing we're waiting for this week and that's the senior loan officer survey and that's all about tightening credit conditions.


And recall Jay Powell said last week that that could be doing and he said it before that could be doing some of the Feds' work for it. So, I think if

we look at the big picture holistically, we're unlikely to see another rate hike.

ASHER: Even though we have seen such a resilient labor market, I mean, 253 or so totally be throughout 253,000 jobs added in terms of week on Friday,

obviously, that number could be revised. But still, the labor market has been very resilient. So, you don't anticipate that the Fed is going to

adjust that perspective based on that at all?

HOOPER: I don't think so because keep in mind, as you touched on, previous months, were downwardly revised. Right? So, this is not a perfect picture.

Certainly, the labor market is strong but we are seeing in general improvement in the inflation journey. And the Fed really has to worry that

the more they hike rates, more things are likely to break.

ASHER: And in terms of an area of the economy, that appears to be as you touched on doing the Feds job for it, the failure of three banks, the

resulting, sort of tightening of credit conditions, the pullback and lending, obviously, that affects small businesses significantly, where do

you see a potential recession this year?

HOOPER: Well, I'm hopeful that we can avoid a recession. If we do see a recession, I think it would be rather mild. And I think it would likely hit

late in 2023. Keep in mind that typically, we have that 12-to-18-month policy lag from when policy is implemented and of course, rate hikes began

last March and when, of course, it shows up in the economy.

So, we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg in terms of an impact on economic activity. That is likely to unfold as the year progresses. Again,

there are some things really going for this economy, especially the labor market. So hopefully, that creates a resilience that helps us avoid any

kind of significant recession.

ASHER: So, given the policy lag, you look at where inflation is, you look at where I mean, we'll get the CPI data in a couple of days. But you look

at where that is overall, you look at the labor market, is this where you would have anticipated the data points to be this far into the game, given

the policy lag, as you just mentioned?

HOOPER: Yes, loosely, because it will take time to show up. I think inflation is largely a rearview mirror concern to be quite frank with you.

I think it's moving in the right direction. And I think policy that has already been implemented will push it down further. I think what we have to

worry about the risks ahead like a recession, like other things breaking. For example, banks continue to be under pressure, because the Fed hike

rates again last week.

ASHER: All right, Kristina Hooper, live for us there, Chief Global Market Strategist at Invesco, thank you so much.

All right, still to come here. Breaking the diplomatic ice. China's Prime Minister meeting with the U.S. envoy for the first time since the spy

balloon incident in February. We'll have details for you after the break.




ASHER: Welcome back to First Move. U.S. stocks are up and running this Monday. A mixed start to the trading week, some early session weakness in

tech. All of this after a strong rally on Friday investors cheered a rally in regional bank shares as well as solid U.S. jobs numbers as well.

Lots of challenges, though the day ahead, days ahead, rather, including key April inflation data and that important bipartisan -- bipartisan debt

ceiling meeting in Washington tomorrow that we're all going to be watching very closely.

The Chinese Foreign Minister meeting with the U.S. Ambassador to China in Beijing describing the relations between the two as 'as cold as ice' but

the prime minister said stabilizing ties between the two superpowers is a top priority. Ivan Watson joins us live now. Ivan, do we know what came out

of this meeting?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the most details are coming from the Chinese Foreign Ministry about what's frankly an

important meeting. I mean, it is the first time that China's top diplomat has sat down face to face with the Ambassador to Beijing from the U.S.

That is since Qin Gang was appointed to the position of State Councilor and Foreign Minister. That's back in December. There's been an awful lot that

has gone wrong in the relationship between the world's two largest economies since then, and the Chinese Foreign Ministry readout specifically

addresses that saying that the relationship has been on ice with some tough words with the Chinese diplomat accusing the U.S. of missteps and wrong

words that have led to this, urging the U.S. ambassador in the U.S. to think deeply about this.

But then using some other kind of more positive language talking about urging the U.S. to meet China halfway and to prevent things from being able

to spin out of control between these two powers. And some of that actually echoes, comments and quotes that Nicholas Burns, the U.S. Ambassador made

just last week, where he said the U.S. was ready to talk to China, that it wanted both sides, that China to meet us halfway.

So there seems to be an echo of that here. Burns published a tweet just basically acknowledging that the meeting did in fact take place. And I can

just take you back a little bit through the timeline of how relations have eroded. You had U.S. President Biden meet face to face with the Chinese

leader Xi Jinping back in November in Bali on the sidelines of a G20 summit and they had basically kind of reinfused some enthusiasm for discussion,

some hope for improved relations that have gotten very rocky.

And then those were kind of thrown to the sidelines by the appearance of a Chinese surveillance balloon over the U.S. in February that was ultimately

shot down. The U.S. Secretary of State, Antony Blinken was supposed to visit Beijing in February, but that visit was postponed and we don't know

when or if that will ever take place.

The fact that you had these officials talking, that suggests that there's room for some kind of dialogue, and hopefully for avoiding things getting

out of control because there are certainly some big sticking points, and Beijing referred to them today, notably Taiwan.

Just last month, the Chinese government-imposed sanctions on the Ronald Reagan Library in the U.S. and on the Hudson Institute after the president

of Taiwan made a visit to the U.S.


China, the Chinese government does not like that kind of engagement with Taiwan. Back to you.

ASHER: All right. Ivan Watson live for us there. Thank you so much. Russia's war on Ukraine could lead to changes in a longstanding Ukrainian

industry, surrogate parents, surrogate parenting. As the war erodes Ukraine's population, lawmakers are considering banning foreigners from

paying Ukrainian women to carry and deliver their babies. But some of those women tell us it's because of the war that they need to do this. CNN's Nic

Robertson explains the controversy.


ROBERTSON: There's mum, she's doing fine. And there's baby she's great too. But all is not well, at this Ukrainian surrogacy clinic. The government

might shut it and others like it down.

We're going down to the vault where they keep all the embryos, they have stored. All the embryos are inside -- are inside these.

Albert Tochilovsky lifts the lid.

That's cold. So, these would have to be destroyed, all of them destroyed.

ALBERT TOCHILOVSKY, BIOTEXCOM OWNER (through translator): It will mean death to me and end the possibility for European families to have babies

here. And the chance for income for Ukrainian women.

ROBERTSON: Biotexcom helps childless couples all over the world. Ukraine's surrogacy laws leave birth mothers few legal rights, making women here like

Olesya highly sought after and relatively well compensated, typically $20,000.

OLESYA HOLOVATSKYKH, SURROGATE (through translator): The financial situation in our family is bad. We've got big problems, so I have to help

my husband earning money.

ROBERTSON: The baby is due in two weeks' time, is that going to be difficult for you to let the baby go?

HOLOVATSKYKH: We've got use to her. We've been playing with her, talking to her, treat her as our own child. So, it's not like a purse simply to make

money. We feel for her as our own.

ROBERTSON: Natalia, a coal miner is seven months pregnant with her second surrogate baby. Has come to Kyiv until the baby is handed off to its

biological parents from Italy. For the first surrogacy for Chinese parents, we bought an apartment she says. This time wasn't an easy decision. But we

did it to provide a better life for our own children.

Before the war, Biotexcom averaged about 450 successful surrogate births a year. Last year that jumped to 600. Lawmakers and President Zelenskyy's

party say that the war has so impacted the population here that no children should be allowed to leave the country. They declined our request to

explain their proposed law in more detail. Olesya and her husband Herrick had two children already and want the possibility of another surrogate and

of helping put love into another couple's lives.

HOLOVATSKYKH: That happiness will arrive in another home. Someone else must feel joy, not only ourselves.

ROBERTSON: The benefits of this surrogacy for them they've already been life changing, enough money to flee their dangerous frontline home.

OLESYA HOLOVATSKYKH'S HUSBAND: This surrogacy saved us. Thanks to this we are sitting here in safety.

ROBERTSON: Lives many of them yet to be born at stake on this pending government decision. Nic Robertson, CNN, Kyiv, Ukraine.


ASHER: All right, still to come here after the break. Tentative first steps towards peace talks have not alleviated the humanitarian crisis in Sudan.

After the break what efforts are being made to help the victims



ASHER: Fighting rages on in Sudan as envoys from the two warring sides gather to face to -- face to face at peace talks. The violence comes as

representatives of the Sudanese army and the paramilitary rapid support forces met in Jeddah for talks led by the U.S. and Saudi Arabia.

The conflict has killed hundreds, triggered a mass exodus and created a humanitarian crisis. More aid arrived on Friday and Saudi Arabia has agreed

to send aid worth up to $100 million according to the Saudi news agency. AKM Musha is the Sudan Director at Concern Worldwide humanitarian

organization. Moshe, thank you so much for being with us. You think about the position that Sudan was in prior to the conflict.

Sudan already had major humanitarian needs, especially given the worsening economic situation in the country, there were millions of people already

who were food insecure. And on top of that, the country was also dealing with climate change, just walk us through how much worse things have

gotten, how much has the situation on the ground, there deteriorated over the past month?

AKM MUSHA, SUDAN COUNTRY DIRECTOR, CONCERN WORLDWIDE: Hi, again, thank you for inviting me to join this program. In Sudan, as you mentioned, the

people are suffering. Over 16 million people are in need for humanitarian assistance before the conflict. And when the -- when the conflict started,

the situation has become worse and people at all levels are in crisis. They're running for safety, saving their life in safe places, inside Sudan

and outside Sudan.

Many of the people are fleeing Sudan and risk to border of different countries. And inside Sudan, the situation is, is really a grave situation.

It's a huge humanitarian crisis is there. People have run out of food, there is no electricity, water supply shortages. When people are moving

from their house to different separate places, they could not take anything. So, they are in a -- in a -- in real, really terrible situation.

And on top of the previous situation, this has aggravated further and people -- people in all level need support.

ASHER: Yes, you list out some of the issues on the ground there and on top of that you have a paramilitary groups using hospitals, hospitals as

strategic basis. You know, what happens to the people who need medical attention right now in Sudan, given the fact that there are a number of

hospitals especially in Khartoum that are not even operating right now?


MUSHA: Yes, there are a number of many hospitals in different places are not -- not operating. There are a number of reasons for that. One is the

either hospital are hit during the fight, or there is no, the doctors and nurses, they cannot really reach the hospitals. And there is no supplies in

the hospitals, they run out of supplies, there is no medicine, there is no other medical consumables to -- to run the hospitals and provide support to

the -- to the patients. So, in this situation in many of the health facilities in Sudan are not really operating. They need acute. They're in

acute support of need, from different -- different level.

ASHER: So, the people who -- you talk to the people who have managed to escape outside the country, obviously there are people who managed to flee

to South Sudan, to Chad, what can the international communities, what can they do right now to ensure that these countries have the adequate

infrastructure to prepare for these new arrivals?

MUSHA: Yes, in -- in different countries when people are arriving there, and the Concern Worldwide has been supporting the Sudanese refugees in Chad

who reached the Chad border, and also Concern is supporting in South Sudan while the Sudanese people have reached to South Sudan.

Concern has planned to provide support for health, for nutrition, for non- food items, like blankets, mattresses, the household items, utensils, water buckets, so different items. In addition to that Concern has planned to

support the shelter materials, the district -- plan to distribute shelter materials, so in both South Sudan, and Chad, we have been planning this to

support these people.

ASHER: And in terms of your organization, specifically, I mean, Musha, you know, concern actually had to pause operations initially, when the fighting

first broke out. You then managed to get some of your workers out of the country, there are a lot of workers from what I understand who still

remained within Sudan. I mean, what are you doing to keep them safer at this point?

MUSHA: Yes. I mean after the conflict broke out, we -- our primary focus was to ensure the safety and security of our staff. We have international

staff and also national staff. So, we looked at both -- both groups and we supported our international staff to evaluate through Port Sudan. And also,

we have been guiding and supporting people to go to the separate places, our national staff and all our national staff are currently safe.

I have been communicating to them. And our headquarter colleagues are also communicating to them to ensure that they're safe and guiding them to be at

the -- at the safer places. And in certain areas, situation as a bit calmer, like in in South Kordofan and west Kordofan states, these are the

two states that are bit calm where Concern operates.

We are planning to resume our operation; our staff are on the ground. They are doing the assessment. And also, we are assessing the Darfur, the Darfur

association where we're also operational to see as soon as the situation improves, we will resume our operation. In addition to supporting our

Sudanese colleagues in country, we are also organizing a group of experts, our -- our rapid deployment team, who are experts in different areas like

health, nutrition, food security, water and sanitation supply.

So, we are putting together a team to again, enter into the Sudan, including myself, lead a team to go to Sudan again, to support our national

colleagues to -- for the humanitarian operation.

ASHER: Right, thank you AKM Musha. Thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate it. We'll have much more on First Move after the break.




ASHER: The public holiday continues in Britain which is celebrating a longer coronation weekend. Today members of the royal family are joining

volunteers carrying out work for charity like Prince Louis who got a helping hand from his dad for today's event called The Big Help Out.

On Saturday, 20 million people in Britain tuned in to see King Charles being crowned at Westminster Abbey. That's 5 million less. In the TV

audience for the funeral of his Mother Queen Elizabeth II. Last night Lionel Richie Katy Perry and others performed at a coronation concert at

Windsor castle where Prince William paid tribute to his father.


WILLIAM, PRINCE OF WALES: My father's first words on entering Westminster Abbey yesterday, were a pledge of service. It was a pledge to continue to

serve because for over 50 years, in every corner of the UK, across the Commonwealth and around the world, he has dedicated himself to serve

others. Pa, we're all so proud of you.


ASHER: Nada Bashir is in London for us. So, Nada, this idea of service was a big theme at the coronation. In fact, King Charles said I come not to be

served but to serve, echoing the words of his late mother as well. Just -- just walk us through what's involved in The Big Help Out today and what the

Royals are doing.

NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER: Well, certainly is a key focus for the royal family and was a key aspects of the coronation celebrations today which

would be a bank holiday traditionally, a day off for people here in Britain but they are calling on all those in the country to take part in some way

or other in volunteering and offering support and help to those in need.

We are seeing members of the royal family of course also taking part in this initiative today. We've seen the Prince and Princess of Wales joined

by their three children, including Prince Louis who took part in The Big Help Out today helping out with a Scouts initiative. This is his first

Royal Engagement but certainly not the last, it really is a family affair.

Now certainly the case yesterday as we saw at the concert at Windsor celebrating the coronation, Prince William there, dedicating that message

to his father and of course remembering the late Queen Elizabeth. But of course, this was a more happier celebration than we've seen with the

Queen's funeral. But we saw a similar turnout.

We saw huge crowds lining the mall reminiscent of those 10 days in which we saw people from across the globe traveling into London to pay their

respects to the Queen and that was certainly the message that we got from people we spoke to at the mall, outside Buckingham Palace yesterday, mainly

saying that they wanted to be part of this moment of history, that they wanted to share this experience with their families, not just people from

the United Kingdom, but of course many traveling in from across the globe once again.

But you did mention that this had a slightly lower turnout when it comes to the TV viewership. 5 million less people tuning in than we saw with the

Queen's funeral. And perhaps this is a signal of a new era of the monarchy. This is a change. This is a monarchy where we have seen some controversy

particularly in recent months with regards to Prince Harry and Prince Andrew.

So, there are certainly some questions. There are many of course who took to the streets in protest of the coronation here in London, the police

confirming that some arrests were indeed carried out as a result of those demonstrations. But of course, with the cost-of-living crisis currently

ongoing, with many people struggling to afford even the most basic of goods here in the United Kingdom, for some seeing a large-scale celebrations such

as we saw over the weekend for the coronation, possibly not the right moment didn't strike the right tone.


But for others, a huge celebration of a moment of history here in the United Kingdom. Zain.

ASHER: Yes, Nada, you touched on the TV numbers, I mean, 20 million people tuned in to the BBC, as you point out, yes, still a third of the country,

but still significantly less than the number of people who watched the Queen's funeral. I mean, just explain to us in 30 seconds very quickly, why

you -- why you think that is.

BASHIR: Well, the Queen was a figure that was respected, revered globally. This was a person who has been at almost all the most important historic

events, someone who is recognized across the globe, but she has a legacy which continues to live on and we saw that in the 10 days of the memory

that of the marking to celebrate her funeral. That was certainly evident. King Charles, of course, has a long way to go at for himself as the monarch

for United Kingdom.

ASHER: Very diplomatic answer Nada and you did that very quickly. We appreciate it. Thank you so much. That's it for the show. I'm Zain Asher.

I'll be back in a couple of hours with One World.