Return to Transcripts main page

First Move with Julia Chatterley

Zelenskyy: Russia Failed to Capture Bakhmut by its Deadline; Former Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan Arrested; President Biden Meets with Republican Leaders Today; Russia Marks Victory in WWII as War in Ukraine Continues; Microsoft: AI will Remove the Drudgery of Work; $787 Million Defamation Settlement Drags FOX into the Red. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired May 09, 2023 - 09:00   ET




ZAIN ASHER, CNNI HOST: A warm welcome to "First Move", I'm Zain Asher in for my colleague Julia Chatterley. Just ahead on todays' show Victory Day

in Moscow. Russia marks the 78th anniversary of the defeat of Germany in World War Two even as it struggles on the battlefield in Ukraine the latest

on today's military observances just ahead.

And debt debate in Washington, President Biden sits down with House Speaker Kevin McCarthy and other Republican leaders. Their first face to face talks

on raising the debt limit. The two sides are far apart right now with time certainly running out to find a solution.

On financial markets U.S. futures are lower as investors await the outcome of today's negotiations and brace for important inflation data tomorrow CPI

is coming out tomorrow Europe also under pressure as well after mixed Asian handover. Chinese stocks falling amid news that imports plunged almost 8

percent last month.

The data showing China's economy is struggling even after the end of COVID- 19 locked down. So much to get through this hour, we begin though, with the latest from Moscow and Ukraine earlier today Russians marked the defeat of

Nazi Germany in World War Two while the war of course in Ukraine still rages on.

The Victory Day celebrations were significantly scaled down with only one tank and under tight security after a reported drone attack on the Kremlin

itself. Last week, President Putin delivered a defiant speech to the crowd and said that Russia is the victim of its war with Ukraine.


VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA: Again, a true war has been unleashed against our motherland. We have repelled international terrorism, and we

will defend the residents of Donbas and secure our own safety.


ASHER: Matthew Chance joins us live now. So Matthew, as expected, Vladimir Putin portrayed himself and Russia as a victim and the West was trying to

destroy their country.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, this is the kind of narrative that we've heard from Vladimir Putin for the past

year and a half. Basically, that this was a war that's been orchestrated by the West, this isn't really a battle against Ukraine. This is a battle

against all the Western powers are using Ukraine to try and destroy Russia.

We've heard it time and again, and Vladimir Putin used this platform on Victory Day in the center of the Russian capital in Red Square to restate

that narrative, again, but he was presiding over a shrunken parade. It was still a big display of military Mike, don't get me wrong.

I mean, there were 8000 troops there. But last year, there was something more like 12,000, the year before it was even more than that. There was no

aerial display this year. And it wasn't for weather reasons. It was cancelled. It was for some other reason, probably security reasons.

And as you mentioned, there was only one tank at the intercontinental ballistic missiles were at the center of the display as they are every

year, a reminder that Russia has this nuclear power, this nuclear deterrent, there's nuclear threat, if you'd like it chooses to rattle its

nuclear saber, quite often.

You know, but, again, a much shrunken spectacular than what we've seen in previous years. And that's partly to do with the security situation. There

has been an upsurge in attacks against key Russian installations, particularly on the Kremlin. Just a couple of days ago, just last week,

drones, according to the Kremlin struck the Kremlin in what they called a Ukrainian assassination attempt on the life of Vladimir Putin.

But there's also speculation that Russia, which is heavily engaged in Ukraine, which is preparing for a counter offensive by the Ukrainian

Military simply doesn't have the forces to bear to bring to Red Square to put on display, which is why perhaps there was only one old Second World

War era tank, and none of its latest newest military equipment.

ASHER: Yes, as you point out a much more scaled down celebration today in Red Square. Matthew Chance, live for us there. Thank you so much. In

Ukraine Meantime, President Zelenskyy says the Russia has failed in its quest to take a Bakhmut as a Victory Day prize. He was speaking at a joint

press conference with European President Ursula von der Leyen.


VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE: They were not able to capture Bakhmut. This was the last important military operation that they wanted to

complete by the 9th of May and unfortunately the city does not exist anymore.



ASHER: Meantime Russia continues to evacuate civilians from occupied frontline towns ahead of a much anticipated Ukrainian counter offensive.

Nick Paton Walsh joins us live now. And Nick, overnight, we got word that there were about 15 or so Russian cruise missiles aimed squarely at Kyiv

every single one of them was shot down. What more do we know on that front?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is a consistent pattern we're seeing over the past night so barrages of

drones and missiles launched towards Ukrainian civilian areas, a lot of them shut down. It's not always 100 percent transparency about what

military targets may have been hit the persistent message from Ukrainian officials, other drones are not getting through at all with some


Odessa, one life lost when a warehouse was hit yesterday but clearly Ukraine's air defense is working better over the larger populated areas is

on the front lines, though, particularly along the Zaporizhzhia, Southern front where many expect Ukraine's counter offensive to get underway that

the barrage is consistent and brutal. Here's what we saw some days down on that frontline.


WALSH (voice over): Occupied Ukraine is aflame and evacuating its civilians. Russia's wholesale departure can't come soon enough for

frontline town or a heave. Ravaged by Moscow, where four missiles hit on Thursday alone. Rescues were left guessing what the constant bangs mean and

have done.

WALSH (on camera): See people just down the road here carrying on life as per normal despite dust in sky -- Is that --?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, that might not be.

WALSH (on camera): --may not be in fact, outgoing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 1300 meters away is the last -- position.

WALSH (on camera): He is saying it doesn't particularly the time of day when these sort of things start could be any time at all frankly.

WALSH (voice over): As dusk falls, the sky is lit in a duel all they can do here to stay alive is read the horizon. Some of it perhaps further south

into occupied areas than a week earlier but so much of it also very closes. Don't is often jarring. We have a jet overhead the slowly building grating

sound of damage moving towards you. Missile a half million dollar KH 31, Ukrainian officials later say land just 700 yards away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Be careful of double taps.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was on the floor buddy.

WALSH (voice over): Another blast follows. Either jet and trails or anti- aircraft fire settle to shape a z in the air, the symbol of Russia's invasion. It is soon gun. Damage it leaves though isn't. This is where it

hit or missed.

WALSH (on camera): Down here you can get a feeling of just how massively brutal Russian firepower can be. And also how indiscriminate I can still

smell the explosive down here and you're kind of left wondering where the obvious military target is.

WALSH (voice over): At the end of this road is -- one of the towns Russia has said it is evacuating. We are just one mile from Russian frontline

positions here, a world torn apart as Moscow tries to hold Ukraine back.

WALSH (on camera): Well, no more than 10 miles in that direction are the first towns that Russian occupying forces say they're going to be

evacuating because of the Ukrainian counter offensive. We're looking here at the last town really held by Ukraine absolutely battered and so few

people left here as little need to evacuate.

WALSH (voice over): Where there were once 3000, there are 200 people trying to stay says Raysa.

RAYSA MALA, TOKMACHKA RESIDENT: We can't leave. We don't have a way out. We survive just on aid they bring us.

WALSH (voice over): Caught in these wide open spaces where a distant bank can suddenly alter life in an instant.


WALSH: And this battlefield of Russia's own choosing on Victory Day, the messages it's giving out of disunity and, well, some degree chaos. The

certainly the evacuations in areas on the front line continue now. 3000 civilians pulled out apparently, according to Ukrainian officials,

shortages of gasoline, access to cash from ATMs, cell phone problems as well.


These are all things that Russian occupying forces need to continue their presence there. So potentially we're seeing the beginnings of Ukrainian

Military pressure on those areas quite separately in that deeply symbolic City of Bakhmut, which they said you, heard their European Union leader.

They were making a reference to Bakhmut being something they wanted to take today. Well, instead, we've seen a week of extraordinary back and forth

drama from Wagner Mercenary Chief, Yevgeny Prigozhin, one of the most prominent military figures Russia, indeed has.

He'd said he was going to leave tomorrow because they didn't have enough artillery shells and yesterday he said he was going to get enough and now

this morning. He said, actually, no, I haven't got enough. He claimed the Chief of Staff of Russia Gerasimov had intervened and reduced the amount of

shells that they were supposed to receive.

It's unclear if that means they may leave tomorrow. He even accused to Russia's conventional military of giving up some areas along that Bakhmut

front line. So this spat which seemed to come out of nowhere and Prigozhin consistently seems to have almost with himself on telegram not getting an

official public response from Russian Military officials to his claims and demands.

Has even led him today to suggest that he was told if he left the front line in Bakhmut, his men and himself will be charged with treason. So a lot

happening publicly in terms of displays of Russian disunity on a day where they'd like to remind everybody of the sacrifice that Soviet citizens made

during the Second World War.

But startling frankly, the scenes in Moscow echoing too I think a diminished Russian Military here wondering quite when Ukraine's counter

offensive will begin to yield results.

ASHER: But as you point out the drama between Prigozhin and the rest of sort of Russia's Military leaders, hugely embarrassing for the Kremlin for

that to play out publicly on Victory Day and obviously in the run up too. Nick Paton Walsh, live for us there. Thank you so much.

Right, Pakistan's Former Prime Minister Imran Khan arrested he was detained by paramilitary troops while attending court. In the capital, Islamabad,

Khan has been preparing a political comeback since he was ousted in the parliamentary no confidence vote last year.

It is just after six o'clock in the evening in Karachi and people out on the street to protests Khan's arrest. Ivan Watson joins us live now. So

what is his arrest mean for the possibility of sort of more violent clashes between Imran Khan Supporters and of course, Pakistani police.

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is a dramatic development. I mean, you had Imran Khan, who was coming to court in

Islamabad. He was in the building, he was doing his biometrics and then suddenly, a large force of paramilitary officers surrounded the building

and started actually breaking in the windows to detain him.

And there's actually video that's been released by his political party showing them bashing in the windows and the camera at one point pivots and

you see Imran Khan sitting there with his sunglasses on, seemingly relaxed, whereas moments later he is then taken away surrounded again by dozens of

these helmeted and armed officers to a vehicle.

Now he seemed to anticipate that this was going to come because he pre- recorded several videos, I'm going to play an excerpt from one of these that he seemed to record earlier in the day. Take a listen


IMRAN KHAN, FORMER PAKISTANI PRIME MINISTER: By the time you receive these words of mine, I will have been detained on incorrect charges. Pakistan

constitution, which gives us rights, which gives us democracy has been varied. Perhaps I won't get the opportunity to speak to you again.


WATSON: Now, this is very important. He goes on to urge his supporters to come out for their fundamental rights, and says that the time has come for

all of you to come and struggle for your rights. So we're already seeing protests erupting in Islamabad in the largest city, Karachi, in Lahore,

where we've seen demonstrators outside the residence of the most Senior Military Officer in that city.

Now it's worth noting here Zain, that this has been part of a growing political drama, and basically, test of wills between Imran Khan, the

Former Prime Minister ousted in a no confidence vote a little bit more than a year ago and the current government as well as the military.

There has been previous arrest warrants issued previous attempts to arrest him but he's essentially resisted in March. Police tried to detain him in

Lahore from his residence and supporters of him, threw stones they resisted the police there was tear gas fired. He was never ultimately apprehended.

The authorities have released the arrest warrant here. They say it was issued by the National accountability Bureau and they say that he's been

arrested on accusations of corruption in conjunction with a university and more than $100 million worth of funds that they're accusing him of having

something to do with.


But this is a part of a much bigger again test of wills where Imran Khan has been openly accusing the government and the military and the

intelligence of trying to stop him from being able to run for office in elections that are scheduled to take place later this year.

And this is all against a much bigger backdrop of just a horrific economic crisis with inflation it last month and this month of some 30 percent,

skyrocketing food prices all of this adding to just a real climate of political and economic instability in a nuclear armed nation, Zain.

ASHER: Alright, Ivan Watson, live for us there. Thank you. Key talks are underway at the White House today to try to avert a potential economic

catastrophe here in the United States. Time is running out to resolve the debt ceiling with the Treasury warning its cash reserves will dry up early

next month by June 1 approximately.

That leaves America at risk of defaulting on its debt for the first time ever. And President Biden announced Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy could

not be further apart. Lauren Fox is in Washington for us. So Lauren, you've got a meeting coming up. Today, just given that both sides are so far

apart, given that both sides seem to be digging in their heels, what can we realistically expect to come out of this meeting?

LAUREN FOX, CNN POLITICS CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Well, Zain, this is a high stakes meeting. But the chances of brokering some kind of breakthrough deal

this afternoon. That's extremely slim and that is because both sides are so dug in right now. What you have from the White House is this argument that

they are willing to have a conversation about spending cuts and the federal government's budget.

But they want to do that on a separate track separate from the debt ceiling increase. Meanwhile, you have House Republicans who are walking into this

meeting today, with Speaker McCarthy having more leverage than maybe anyone else in that room ever expected him to have.

That is because he passed legislation. It is the only bill that has passed a chamber of the House of Representatives in which he increases the debt

ceiling. And it's accompanied by trillions in spending cuts. He's arguing that he's shown he has the votes for a deal, of course, that legislation

has no chances of passing and the democratically controlled U.S. Senate.

So all sides walking in today, really no closer to reaching an agreement, the hope is that the fever can perhaps break and perhaps everyone can find

a way to have this conversation about some kind of two track plan one, to cut spending, the other to try and increase the debt ceiling to ensure that

the country does not default on its debt.

And of course, it's important to remind everyone, this is not new spending. This is the bills that the U.S. has already incurred. And that is the

argument that you're hearing from Democrats over and over again, that in the past, they don't negotiate on this issue.

And this is really harkening back to a standoff that happened more than a decade ago now in which both sides of the aisle found themselves in a very

similar negotiating positions pushing this deadline right to the brink with the markets reacting in a way that finally brought everyone back to the

negotiating table.

It's about three to four weeks we expect that they have to work on this legislation. But obviously, there's a lot riding on this meeting today,

even if we don't expect any major breakthroughs, Zain.

ASHER: All right, Lauren Fox, live for us there thank you so much. White House Economists say a protracted government debt default could wipe out

more than 8 million jobs and drive the stock market down by 50 percent. The Treasury Secretary has been calling CEOs and business leaders to discuss

the debt ceiling according to a source familiar with the matter. Janet Yellen didn't mince her words about the consequences of default without a



JANET YELLEN, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: If they fail to do it, we will have an economic and financial catastrophe that will be of our own making. And

there is no action that President Biden and U.S. Treasury can take to prevent that catastrophe.


ASHER: Rahel Solomon joins us live now. So a protracted shutdown is obviously the worst possible scenario. We just talked there about the

potential of losing 8 million jobs in this country. But even less than that, even less than a productive shutdown could cause serious damage to

the U.S. economy, Rahel.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Zain, that's exactly right. I mean, I think the reality is that the longer this stretch is on the more damage it

causes. And as you pointed out, a protracted default would be sort of the worst case scenario, right? It would try to be economic calamity, as we've

heard White House officials say but it doesn't take a protracted default, to really see damage.

And we can show you just some of the impacts of a default, but even according to some analysis at the White House pointed out a short default

would result in a loss of 500,000 jobs.


Brinksmanship would result in a loss of 200,000 jobs. So again the reality is the longer this stretch is on the more damage it creates. Now, I should

say to your point about Yellen, reaching out to CEOs in the business community to try to see if they can use their connections to convince

Republicans and pass a clean debt ceiling increase.

I also know within the small business community and Zain, you know, when you think about small business owners, really the engine of hiring here in

the U.S. really be injured of about 40 percent of economic growth. So a huge group here in the U.S. in terms of economic growth.

There is a lot of support within the small business community here in the U.S., for lawmakers to also get this done. Goldman Sachs, for its part put

out a survey just a few days ago, pointing out at surveyed small business owners more than 1700 and pointed out that 65 percent say that they will be

negatively impacted if Congress does not raise the debt ceiling.

But critically important 81 percent of those same small business owners also said that it was important for Congress to enact spending cuts in

conjunction with the debt ceiling increase. So there is strong support for both lawmakers to get this done. But also a conversation about spending


And when I spoke to one of the senior advisors of a group a nationwide coalition, we can pull up this quote for you a nationwide coalition of

small business owners and I said, look, how are small business owners feeling about this? I certainly know how economists are feeling about it.

And he said, look, this comment coming from -- bottle, he said, there's a lot of frustration from small business owners who really want congressional

leaders to act, because they've seen the impact that this will have on their business, the economy, and for many of them, their employees.

Referring there to a government shutdown, which then of course, we have witness and experience. But we know that a full default would be much more

severe than that. So look, you have certainly the business community perhaps stepping up here.

But you also have small business owners who are very concerned about the impact of this and in terms of whether they're federal contractors and they

do business with the government or even just the economic climate if we were in fact to see a default here.

ASHER: Yes, you think about the ramifications for equities stock market for the federal workers who wouldn't be paid I mean the list goes on it would

be a disaster. Rahel Solomon, live for us there. Thank you so much.

Right, still to come here on "First Move", scale down Victory Day celebration in Russia after the break we discuss what's different this

year, and what it could mean we're the leading expert on Russia and Ukraine.



ASHER: A lot of fear here in the United States, given the potential for debt default. We know that President Joe Biden is meeting with Republican

lawmakers today to try to get the issue resolved when it comes to raising the debt ceiling. Let's talk more about this with Greg Valliere is the

Chief U.S. Policy Strategist at AGF Investments.

Greg, thank you so much for being with us. I was actually just speaking to one of our Correspondents, Rahel, about this. The consequences of a

potential default, let's say come June 1st would potentially be not only the stock market losing half its value, but potentially 8000 jobs in this

country being lost. Just walk us through what you see happening here. Do you think that they will reach a deal last minute, as they always do?

GREG VALLIERE, CHIEF U.S. POLICY STRATEGIST AT AGF INVESTMENTS: Well, nice to see you. I think, first of all, I don't expect anything today. Their

meeting this afternoon, as you know, at the White House, maybe they'll agree to meet again, maybe they'll agree to double their efforts. Maybe

they'll agree that we shouldn't default.

But I'd certainly don't see any imminent deal we've got at least several weeks ago. And frankly, there's a mood in Washington right now that perhaps

we may have to extend the deadline, we may have to go and kick the can down the road and have this expire in the fall. That's not out of the question.

ASHER: Why are we really seeing sort of extreme nervousness just yet in the equity markets, I think we are seeing some nervousness when we look at

treasuries, but the equity market doesn't really seem to be showing any signs of concern just yet.

VALLIERE: It's a really good question and you're right. The bond market is starting to show some anxiety. I think in the stock market, there's a view

that's quite sanguine, not justifiable, in my opinion. But it's quite sanguine, that we've had crises like this before, in particular in 2011.

And at the last minute, we got a deal. So perhaps the stock market thinks that we'll get a deal at the last minute. I think that's a dangerous logic,

because the new house, the house right now is so radical, that they may not agree to any kind of a deal.

If House Speaker McCarthy says we're going to water down all the spending cuts we agreed to two or three months ago, the right wing will walk. And if

the right wing walks, we go right back into a real, genuine threat of default.

ASHER: I mean, even though yes, you know, we've seen a deal last minute before. And we've been on tenterhooks as he waited until the 11 hour, just

the fact that it is cutting it so close. You know, what does that do to consumer confidence, for example, business confidence here in the U.S.?

VALLIERE: Well, consumer confidence is not doing all that well, for President Biden, who's had terrible polls in the last 48 hours. I think

that most consumers look at food prices when they go to the grocery store as the number one indicator. I'm not convinced that the American voters are

all that nervous.

He had about a shutdown or a government default. I think it's, more food and to a lesser extent, now gasoline. But I think that anxiety is going to

increase over the next few weeks.

ASHER: There are those who say, look, obviously, a default is not the best case scenario. That's not what anyone would want. But it wouldn't

necessarily be the Armageddon that some economists say that it would be. I mean, what do you make of that? What would it actually feel like?

There are those who say, listen, it would be similar to what we saw in 2008, with the financial crisis. Then just paint a picture for our audience

in terms of what it would actually look like from an economy perspective. If the U.S. was to default on its debt, how would it trickled down to

ordinary American consumers?

VALLIERE: Well, I think global investors first of all, would get quite nervous and the markets in the U.S. would probably go down, and they'd

certainly be volatile. I would say that at the very least. And this would probably be a nerve wracking experience for the ordinary people who also

own stock.

I would say this knows, Zain, I think that there is still a chance that if we could get right to the precipice and as we were about to fall off a

cliff. There's still a chance that the Federal Reserve could take action to avoid this. There's still a chance we could, as I said, wait until fall.

And there's even a chance we could look at the 14th Amendment of the Constitution, which essentially says you can't go bankrupt. So there still

are options and perhaps the markets and perhaps most Americans feel that at the last minute, we'll get bailed out and we might.

ASHER: And pivoting slightly, just in terms of raising interest rates here in the U.S. I mean, the Federal Reserve intimated that, look it is possible

that they are done with rate hikes for now obviously then we got the jobs report on Friday clearly showing so much resiliency in the labor market.


We're also expecting CPI data out tomorrow; just walk us through whether or not you think we are done with rate hikes for now. Or of course, it's data

dependent. So where do you think the Fed will go next time they meet?

VALLIERE: I think they'll pause. They could resume later in the summer or in the fall? It's not out of the question. But one sector I look at a lot

and the Fed talked about yesterday is commercial real estate, which is really a disaster in much of America.

Commercial real estate is in such bad shape, it could infect even more banks. I think that's something the Fed has to be worried about. If we get

a decent CPI number tomorrow, at around five, maybe even a little lower. I think the federal say you were off the hook for a while.

ASHER: All right, Greg Valliere, thank you so much. We appreciate it. More "First Move" after the break.


ASHER: Welcome back to "First Move"! U.S. stocks up and running this Tuesday a week start to the trading day after Monday's mostly flat close

investors are willing the outcome of today's debt ceiling talks in Washington and bipartisan think tank today estimating that unless the

ceiling is raised the government will default on its debt sometime between early June and early August.

Investor concerns are not limited to the debt limit, the Fed warning in a report yesterday of a potential crisis in the commercial real estate

market, actually our previous guest Greg Valliere was just talking about that. A new U.S. data shows the recent banking tremors are making it much

more difficult to borrow.

Vladimir Putin says a true war is being waged on Russia. The Russian President was speaking during a defiant speech from Red Square to celebrate

Victory Day the speech and scaled back parade came hours after Russia launched several cruise missiles at Kyiv.


Well, the day was dedicated to a past victory. It was the current war with Ukraine that was on President Putin's mind. The Russian Leader finished his

remarks by congratulating Russian soldiers who fought on the country's battlefield against Ukraine and once again referred to the war as a special

military operation.

Joining me live now is Melinda Haring, Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council. Melinda, thank you so much for being with us! So Putin, as

expected talks about this idea that Russia is basically a victim in this entire war and that the West was trying to destroy his country, just walk

us through whether or not there was anything in Putin's speech that you found surprising much of it was indeed expected?

MELINDA HARING, SENIOR FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: That's right Zain, thanks for being here. So it was old angry Putin, who was on display today. He

blamed the West for the war in Ukraine, which is patently false. And he also loves to blow out his Nazi scare card.

He also said that Russia must defend residents in the Donbas. This is the region in Eastern Ukraine that is Ukrainian. No real big surprises, though

in the message. I think the big surprise today was how small how somber and how sad the parade it was not much of a parade at all.

ASHER: Yes I mean, speaking of which, you had one sort of aging tank being paraded through, obviously, you know, many of their tanks are deployed on

the front lines, but many of them also have been destroyed.

You think about the number of troops taking part, I think it was just 8000 this time around, compared to 12,000 just last year, no aerial displays at

all. Just walk us through what message I mean, obviously, Putin would have loved to have had a win, to be able to sell to the Russian people.

Especially perhaps the capture of Bakhmut that would have been a great win for them to be able to sell, obviously, they're not getting that I mean,

and the entire parade is much more scaled down. What is the overall sort of message here?

HARING: So Putin is trying to convince people that he's still in charge, and that the mighty Russian army can face off this challenge. Putin's

legitimacy rests on him being the heir of the army that defeated the Nazis.

And that's what today's celebration is about. But like you said, the optics was not good. So last year, there were 11,000 soldiers. This year, there

were 8000 and many of them weren't soldiers they were students, and they were trainers. So that's a change as well.

Now, Putin loves to show off his new toys and parade them through Red Square, there were no new toys. There was only one tank as it was an old

Soviet tank. We also saw last year there were 151, at least military vehicles.

And today, we think there are about 50. So it was a small, small number of vehicles. And the parade itself was less than an hour long. And we haven't

seen that in years in years. It was also a small crowd. Putin had probably seven international leaders, and they were from the former Central Asian

states, from Armenia and from Belarus. So it was not a Davos crowd, right? It was a very, very small group of loyal people.

ASHER: Yes, the seven leaders from former Soviet Republic. And then on top of that, you have this sort of -- I don't want to say argument, but this

sort of beef playing out between Prigozhin and Russian military leaders about whether or not the Wagner group is getting enough ammunition. One

minute Prigozhin says yes, they are. Everything's fine and they're not then they are then they are not. That's also hugely embarrassing for President

Putin as well.

HARING: Absolutely. And this is all playing out in the public. Remember, Vladimir Putin wants to control the media narrative, and he can't control

Prigozhin. So what he was saying today Prigozhin was saying today is embarrassing, and it makes Vladimir Putin look like he's not in charge.

Remember, the parade is coming days after the drone strike on the Kremlin as well. So I think the image that Russia is projecting today is not a

strong one, and that the Russian military has been really degraded in Ukraine.

ASHER: All right, Melinda Haring, Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council, thank you so much for being with us. The Chinese government widening its

crackdown on the consulting industry authorities has raided multiple offices of the consulting firm Capvision.

Chinese media reports saying police accused the firm of endangering national security. Beijing recently targeted Bain and Company and Minsk

group as well. Capvision has not responded to CNN's requests for comment. The company posted on Chinese social media Monday that it firmly implements

the concept of national security development. Steven Jiang in Beijing has more.

STEVEN JIANG, CNN BEIJING BUREAU CHIEF: Capvision is but the latest example of this very much coordinated nationwide multi agency crackdown on this

commercially very important but politically incorrect extremely sensitive industry.


Remember consulting is very much part of the doing business in China in this system not known for its transparency. That's why it's a big business

here. But just in the past few weeks we've seen Shanghai police raiding the offices of Bain and Company a huge U.S. consultancy.

And before that the Beijing Offices of Minsk Group another prominent U.S., due diligence firm got raided by police and their local staff got detained.

And Capvision is an industry leader here boasting one of the biggest expert's networks, and really linking these experts in different fields

when they're mostly foreign clients.

That's where the Chinese authorities say they crossed the line, dangling hefty payments in front of key players not only within the Communist Party

power structure, but at different state firms encouraging these people to leak insider information, sensitive data or even stay secrets to their

foreign clients according to the authorities, often with ties to foreign governments or even intelligence services.

Now we've spoken to a client of Capvision, and he said those raids actually took place last year. So apparently, the authorities have been taking their

time to build their case against Capvision not only in terms of the investigation but also in terms of their propaganda because the message is

now very clear. They're further tightening the flow of information further restricting access by foreign entities to what they perceive to be

sensitive information.

And this, of course, comes on the heels of their newly revised counter espionage laws, were the authorities further broadening the concept of

national security banning the sharing of any information, data or materials considered to be having a bearing on national security and implications.

So the line is not only very vague, but keeps shifting. And that, of course, is perhaps not surprising; given the Chinese Leader Xi Jinping's

own remarks last October at a Party congress saying now security trumps everything in this country, including economic growth.

But this -- all of these latest developments do seem to be flying in the face some of the more business friendly messages from top officials in

recent weeks and months, saying how China has now reopened for business and foreign investments. Steven Jiang, CNN, Beijing.

ASHER: Coming up after the break, why meetings are out an AI is in a major survey into the world of work reveals were inefficient and overloaded. So

what can be done about it, there's some time in your calendar for this one. That's next.



ASHER: Embracing artificial intelligence removes the drudgery of work and unleashes creativity. The crystal ball gazing comes from Microsoft, whose

latest survey of work trends also reveals a generation of overworked employees struggling to innovate.

According to Microsoft inefficient meetings are the biggest barrier to productivity. The tech giant questioned 31,000 people in 31 countries and

analyzes data from users of Microsoft 365. Jared Spataro is Microsoft's Vice President of Modern Work and Business Applications. Jared joins us

live now.

So I want to talk about this idea of digital debt. It's I find very interesting, this idea that we are inundated with emails, I certainly have

data meetings and so much more than we can process. And also it limits our creativity as well just walk us through how AI can tackle all of that?


moment. Of the people that we surveyed 31,000 people 64 percent of them told us that they just don't have the time and energy to get their work


And then when we probed a little bit ask them well, what's going on? They told us that they were just struggling under this weight of work, this

burden of work. So we looked into the telemetry, we found that they were spending as we looked at what they were doing about 60 percent of their

time communicating that's meetings, chats, emails, only about 40 percent of their time creating or being innovative.

And that's that digital debt that we're talking about. So there's this sense that there is a kind of a heaviness associated with work, some people

tell us they feel like they've been have two jobs. Now the exciting thing is employees are more optimistic than they are fearful of AI. And we see AI

as a way to lift some of that digital burden that they feel and get them out of the communication business and back into the innovation business.

And that's what's exciting for us.

ASHER: See, it's interesting, because when you think about, you know, just as you point out how everyone is inundated with emails and that sort of

thing, and sort of taking some of that burden away will allow us to be creative. There are many people who think that improper use or overuse of

AI, will actually limit our creativity. How do you strike that balance?

SPATARO: Well, we think that the way to think about this is that AI is essentially a kind of an assistant. We call it a co-pilot at work. So

you're still in charge, you still are the pilot. It's your job to get the work done.

But AI can come in and help you with those tasks first, that really are about communicating and finding the signal from the noise. I use it

personally, for instance, to have more efficient meetings, I use it to not go to some meetings, which I love. I use it to never start with a blank

slate as I start to do work in something like Microsoft Word.

So when we really look at how people are using AI today, we're finding it that allows them to cut through that digital debt, it allows them actually

to then use the power of AI these large language models to be more creative.

ASHER: So, obviously Microsoft has a partnership with open AI. Obviously, given your role, you probably are aware of how to use AI thoughtfully,

right? How can you sort of pass that on to other consumers of AI, especially in business in the workplace, so that they also use AI

thoughtfully because obviously there are risks associated with it as well?

SPATARO: Well, the interesting thing about AI is that it isn't always right, at least these large language models that have been in the news so

much recently. And that is new, most people are used to using a computer where they punch in, for instance, an equation a math problem, they get an

answer out, that's always right every time.

We like to teach people that these large language models, even when they're wrong, are usefully wrong. What we mean by that is they're helping you get

closer to your goal. But that means you have a new set of skills to learn, you have to learn how to fact check.

You have to learn how to make sure you understand the big picture enough to recognize when it might not quite be right. And so that new set of skills

that knew -- what we would call AI Aptitude is important for everyone. It's going to be an important set of skills that we're all going to have to


ASHER: There's a lot of concern that you know, AI is going to take away our jobs. But as you point out, it's not necessarily about taking away jobs or

taking away work. It's more about changing how we work and altering work load. Just expand on you touched on that earlier, but just expand on that a

bit more.

SPATARO: Well, the data for me, Zain really gave a very interesting picture here. I think in the headlines today, we're reading all about people being

fearful of AI. And in particular, our data found that 49 percent of people were worried about AI taking their jobs.

But a whopping 70 percent of the same respondents told us that they would offload as much work as possible to AI in the workplace just to reduce that

digital debt that we were speaking on. So that goes back to this idea that employee's optimism about AI really outweighs their fears. I think that's a

nuance on many of the headlines we're seeing for us it's ever changing, but it's a snapshot of how people are starting to understand how valuable AI

can be.


ASHER: So what's the best way to scale just to ensure that the benefits of AI, as you have laid out, are widely or evenly rather distributed, that

it's not just certain companies, certain industries, certain sectors that reap the benefits, but really, that the benefits are broadly distributed

across society?

SPATARO: Well, our big announcement in March was a new product that we call the "Microsoft 365 Co-Pilot" and we think of it as the way to scale. What

we've essentially done is we've taken these large language models. We've combined it with the power of the Microsoft apps, that's Word Excel,

PowerPoint, Teams and Outlook, the things that literally billions of people use every day to get their work done. And we put it at the point of work.

So no longer do you have to go to some other place to get AI to help for right within your inbox. It's summarizing emails. It's helping you to draft

replies. Right within your meetings you can ask it hey, you know, summarize the decisions we've made and what's still outstanding that kind of like at

the point of work, insertion of AI, we think that's the best way to scale. We just make sure it's available for people. And we're really excited about


ASHER: All Right, Jared Spataro, live for us there. Thank you so much. We appreciate it.

SPATARO: Thank you.

ASHER: All right still to come here on "First Move", box swings to a loss. How its massive legal settlement impacted the latest financial results,



ASHER: Welcome back! "FOX Corp" the parent company of "FOX News" and "FOX Business" posting a net loss of $50 million for the latest quarter. The

main reason it sank into the red the $780 million that agreed to pay to Dominion voting systems to head off a trial over alleged defamation. Oliver

Darcy joins us live now.

So Oliver, just walk us through what Lachlan Murdoch said on this particular call. He touched on this idea that "FOX News" isn't going to be

changing its programming strategy. But did he say anything specifically about FOX's strategy and the thought process behind the firing of Tucker


OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: That's right. He did indicate that after these massive Dominion lawsuits and after the firing of Tucker

Carlson that the network is going to stick with its right wing talk strategy over on "FOX News".

He made a number of comments about the Dominion settlement he actually didn't apologize or admit any fault in the way the network covered the 2020

election. During this call with investors he said he was proud of "FOX News" proud of the team and confident in the "FOX News" brand.

He said they only settled because the Delaware Judge had removed some of their ability to defend themselves through pre-trial hearings. And they

just didn't want a prolonged legal process to play out. But when he was asked about the firing of Tucker Carlson, which obviously came days after

the settlement was announced with Dominion.

He said that they're not changing their strategy. This is not something that would indicate that they're shifting to be more moderate or anything

like that. He said that their strategy is obviously successful that was the word he used and that they're going to be sticking with it in the long



ASHER: He also touched on; I think he also touched on the other lawsuit by Smartmatic, which is going to trial in 2025. They're seeking $2.7 billion

in damages. They're another voting technology firm. Just walk us through what he said about that?

DARCY: That's exactly right. Smartmatic is suing "FOX News". This is making its way through the legal system right now. It is in the New York Courts so

it's going a lot slower than the Dominion lawsuit, which was in Delaware.

And Lachlan Murdoch he says that this is a fundamentally different case, than the Dominion case, because of the ability to defend them based on

other First Amendment grounds. And he said he's confident in it, and will - - they will defend themselves moving forward in this case.

ASHER: Right, Oliver Darcy live for us there. Thank you so much. That's it for the show. I am Zain Asher; I'll be back in a couple of hours with "One