Return to Transcripts main page

First Move with Julia Chatterley

Republicans Suggest U.S. has more Time to Raise Debt Ceiling; Circle CEO on the Impact U.S. Debt Default could have on Stablecoins; Circle CEO: This is Prudent Risk Management on our Part; Researchers Use Brain Scans & AI to try to Read Minds; Scientists are Training AI to Read Minds Through Brain Scans. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired May 24, 2023 - 09:00   ET




JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNNI HOST: A warm welcome to all our First Movers, around the globe. Great to have you with us as we blast off for another busy show

filled with social media campaign kickoffs nail biting, Washington face- offs and Mega tech earning tee-offs first up the Twitter space embrace between Elon and Ron.

Florida's Republican Governor Ron DeSantis set to throw his hat in the presidential ring during a mind meld with Musk on the Musk owned platform

late Wednesday. Plus, the Biden versus McCarthy debt ceiling raised perhaps we're finally seeing some no deal nervousness across stock markets.

As negotiators struggle to reach an agreement little progress reported Tuesday and no word of any high level meeting so far today and here is the

picture right now. U.S. futures are lower that follows a 1 percent plus drop for the NASDAQ and the S&P 500 on Tuesday, a late day slide on word

that talks me have hit an impasse losses as you can see there in Europe and Asia to a pretty sizable.

Some Republicans are now questioning the Treasury so called X-date for when the money runs out suggesting there may be more time to negotiate than the

Treasury suggesting. I think it would only be a matter of weeks not months if that's the case. There's a little like semantics to me.

Now it's not just the debt ceiling so and campaign revealing the current Top Gun of the tech world is set to report results after Wednesday's

closing bell. Chipmaker Nvidia whose shares up 110 percent years to date has been a key beneficiary of the artificial intelligence and

supercomputing boom.

Its chips also helped powered ChatGPT too. In videos CEO though recently warned of the "enormous damage" to the sector from the ongoing tensions

between Beijing and Washington. His concerns voiced just days in fact, before the Chinese government moved to ban purchases from U.S. chipmaker


That's just one more worry to throw on Washington's overflowing plate. Task number one, of course, is the debt ceiling, impasse morass. Janet Yellen's

X-date for when the U.S. runs out of cash now, just eight days away, though some Republicans suggesting that there may be a little bit more wiggle room

and the Treasury has let on listen to this.


REP. BOB GOOD (R-VA): If we don't pass the bill, the Senate doesn't pass the bill. There's not some catastrophic date of June one, you're already

hearing rumblings that it might be July one, there's not going to be some cash oh, we've hit the limit. Look what's happened I markets will get

jittery markets go up and down based on the expectation of whether or not markets are going to go up and go down. So there's not some big catastrophe

to fear.


CHATTERLEY: Channeling Roosevelt, I think in reverse is the one thing to fear the lack of fear itself, even at this point. Arlette Saenz is live at

the White House. Arlette, it does feel like semantics and I'll say it again to debate the number of days. I think the one benefit of being the Treasury

Secretary is you do actually have access to the data unlike any of these other people. What hopes for more negotiations today?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Julia, as you know that some Republicans have cast doubt on that June 1 date. But I think what's

important is what we are hearing from the House Speaker and also his negotiators. House Speaker Kevin McCarthy yesterday insisted that he does

believe Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen when she says the U.S. could default on its debts as early as June 4.

But first he said that the Treasury Department doesn't play games when it comes to these types of things. So that's why negotiators are working

towards this hard deadline that Yellen has put forth. But it really comes at a moment where we have seen these talks up on Capitol Hill really stall

out over the course of the past 24 hours.

You heard the House Speaker tell his caucus privately that they are nowhere close to a deal even as he expresses some optimism publicly that they can

get there. But the negotiator for Republicans have said that there are is a significant gap remaining between what Republicans and the White House

wants to see in this budget agreement.

Chief among those concerns are the issues when it comes to spending levels in this country. The two sides at odds about where exactly spending should

head in the coming years, but yesterday we also heard House Speaker Kevin McCarthy says to our colleague Manu Raju, that the only concession he sees

himself making in this debate is simply raising the debt ceiling.

Sources have told us that those comments really rankled people here at the White House after they had felt that talks had been productive on Monday.

And it really speaks to some of the frustration we've seen bubbling up here at the White House over the course of the past few days when it comes to

trying to reach a bipartisan compromise.

President Biden, when he was in Japan stressed that in order for something to be bipartisan Republicans is also going to have to move. We've heard

people like Hakeem Jeffries the House, a Minority Leader who said that Democrats in the White House have put forward a compromise when it comes to

spending levels.


So there is some frustration when they hear McCarthy say something like that the only compromise he's willing to make is just simply on raising the

debt ceiling. But these talks are really entering into a very precarious stage as you are facing that quickly dwindling down time clock and also

just the fact that it takes time to move legislation corral members together to support something up on Capitol Hill.

So all eyes will be on the coming days and the coming hours, we're still waiting to hear whether White House negotiators and Capitol Hill

negotiators will reconvene today to try to get these talks moving once again, after there really appeared to be a stalemate yesterday.

CHATTERLEY: We should say. Arlette, great to have you with us, thank you, Arlette Saenz there! Now to the Russian region of Belgorod, where at least

nine people were hospitalized overnight drone attacks, according to the Governor of the border region, this follows a surprise attack there on

Tuesday claimed by an anti-Putin Russian group based in Ukraine.

They say their goal is to "the complete liberation of Russia". Fred Pleitgen joins us now on this. Fred, good to have you with us and we were

talking about this once again yesterday. And I think there's increasing fascination with this sort of anti-Putin group. It's no surprise with a

message like that the Russians are saying, look, the architect, here is the Ukrainians. What more do we know about the attacks overnight?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: All right, Julia, well, first of all, that's exactly what the Russians are saying.

They're pinning this on the Ukrainians. It's something that the Kremlin said yesterday, something that the Russian Military said yesterday as well.

The Ukrainians, of course, continued to deny that they had anything to do with us.

So we spoke to the National Security Adviser yesterday. And he once again said, look, these are anti-Putin Russians, they are doing this inside

Russia, even though they are affiliated with the Ukrainian security forces here in Ukraine, when they act inside Russia, they are acting


However, we've now heard from a source inside Ukrainian Defense Intelligence that in fact, the Ukrainians apparently did have a heads up

that this was going to happen from those two anti-Putin Russian groups that then went over there. However, they do say that operationally, they still

had nothing to do with that.

And you know, what was going on last night, it's certainly is something that definitely scared a lot of people on that side of the border, and has

also led to some criticism as well of the Russian security apparatus. What the governor of the Belgorod region was saying is that it was not a quiet

night, as he put it.

And that's probably putting it pretty lightly because he says that there were drone attacks going on, which he says were coming from the Ukrainian

side, basically, the entire night that munitions were being dropped. He says no one was actually injured overnight.

But in total, he says there were, as you put it, those nine people who were hospitalized and three of them actually in ICU. So even after this cross

border raid seems to be over and the Russian defense forces are now saying that they've pushed everybody who crossed the border back into Ukrainian

territory, also alleging that they liquidated 70 of the attackers as they put it.

It certainly seems as though there is still an ongoing security situation in that area, even though right now, the Russians are saying that the

counterterrorism operation is over. The Russian Military, the Defense Minister, Sergei Shoigu, he came out just a little while ago, and he said

that the Russians are calling this a terrorist attack.

He says that they will respond harshly. But really, there are a lot of people in Russia, Julia, who are questioning right now from that region

from the Belgorod region, but also higher up who are questioning how something like that could happen in the first place.

When you have the border with Ukraine that these groups were able to go in there, stay in there for more than 24 hours without the Russian security

forces being able to ask them very quickly, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes and somehow still slipping through and managing to stage these attacks it seems, Frederik, great to have your context, thank you,

Frederik Pleitgen there. Now in the Pacific powerful typhoon is lashing the island of Guam with devastating winds storm surge and heavy rain pummeling

the popular tourist destination as we speak.

Typhoon Mawar is the strongest storm to hit the U.S. territory in decades. Anna Coren joins us now on this. Anna, be the eye as past north have gone

now but the Eyewall which is the strongest part is currently in place. What more can you tell us about the damage and what people are facing there?

ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Julia, the good news is typhoon Mawar is now moving away from Guam landfall didn't happen as was predicted.

However, as you say it passed over the northern tip of the U.S. territory, which is located in the Western Pacific Ocean home to about 150,000 people

that I will have that typhoon, is hitting Guam.

And as you say, this is when the most intense winds and rain hit. The U.S. National Weather Service Guam reports maximum sustained winds of about 114

miles an hour that's 225 kilometers an hour packing and enormous punch and they said that the weather service building was being hammered that the

doors and windows were rumbling and vibrating.


They could hear things breaking outside there was a virtual blackout across the island as most of the power grids went out only 1000 of the 52,000

customers had power at the Guam Memorial Hospital is currently operating with generators. Mawar, Julia is no longer classified as super typhoon.

But that's not to say that it isn't causing significant damage, but it will be some time before we know the full extent of the destruction. The weather

service held a press conference a few hours ago reporting that there will be more heavy rain and strong winds through to about midnight local time

that's in less than an hour and then conditions will ease.

There was much talk earlier in the day, the risk of a triple threat, torrential rain, destructive winds or storm surge that could pose a major

risk to life and property and everyone on the island including the U.S. military and there's a huge you know, military presence that is stationed

on Guam had been told to stay indoors to ride this out.

The weather service you know, they finished the press conference telling folks that this will no doubt be a scary evening, but this will all be over

very soon, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, thoughts with everyone involved? Anna, great to have you thank you. Now to the U.K. and inflation is back in single digits. But

economists are putting the celebrations on hold consumer prices rose 8.7 percent last month, year on year that's down actually from over 10 percent

in March.

But that drop actually was a disappointment and food prices didn't get the memo either. They are at a multi decade high. Anna Stewart joins us now.

Anna, it was the food prices that caught my attention rising 19.1 percent in April core inflation actually raised you know, I look at the Bank of

England now and the meeting next month. They're going to have to raise rates again, surely.

ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: Yes, this was not a good day to release it was certainly wasn't welcome ease inflation has fallen, but nothing like as

much as people expected given the fall we've seen in energy prices. And you mentioned food yes, up 19.1 percent versus a year ago essentially hadn't

really moved from the month before.

And the Chancellor made really clear this morning, this is concerning. He actually met with food producers yesterday it was a big photo up there. And

I just want to show you the rises we've had in some really basic food staples here in the U.K. over the last year.

Look at that sugar up more than 47 percent, eggs up 37 percent and milk up by almost as much. Why are we still seeing all of this food inflation?

Well, the Office of National Statistics is putting it down to firstly, of course, the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the impact that had on grain

prices and fertilizer prices, in addition to energy costs, the labor shortages in the U.K. that is a result of the pandemic, also Brexit of

course, and really impacts the farming.

And then weather droughts and cold snaps, but not in the U.K., the issue for the U.K., it relies hugely on imported food, and actually, the prices

for imported food, the U.K. has risen twice as fast as domestic food. And then you've got to add in the huge lag in terms of yes, we're seeing

commodity prices fall.

But of course, all those long term contracts, particularly with imported food, that lag some distance. So we're not going to see inflation coming

down maybe as quickly as we had hoped. And the issue with this Julia, of course, this sort of inflation with food and energy really hits the poorest


And there is huge pressure for wages to go up so that people can afford to meet their bills. The problem with that inflation becomes more entrenched.

And that was the big warning yesterday from the IMF. And at this stage, they saying inflation is the absolute number one priority.

And I think that means interest rates are going to go up much, much higher than we had expected only a few weeks ago. I think 4.5 percent was really

the consensus for the peak is now looking at over 5 percent maybe 5.5, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and your point about the IMF, I think absolutely, accurately said businesses keep prices elevated, because they're not sure

about that time lag. Workers then demand higher wages because it's hitting them too. And it remains really sticky. And that's the challenge we're in

not just in the U.K. Good to have you with us. Thank you, Anna Stewart, there. We'll back after this, stay with "First Move".



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". U.S. Congress has very little time left to agree on legislation and avoid the first ever U.S. default.

Now whether that happens or not even just flirting with the prospect has big consequences. It clearly matters for those who rely on things like

pensions from the U.S. government.

But it also matters for those who invest in U.S. based assets like U.S. government bonds. Here in the U.S., they're supposed to be the safest

assets to own and that's part of the problem. Now imagine you provide a product whose value is tied to the U.S. dollar and investors trust that you

have exactly the same amount of cash or bonds for example, to back it up in very simple terms.

That's how a stable coin works. Circle is a financial services company that issues one of the world's largest known as USD coin. Now Stablecoins

facilitate trades in Cryptocurrencies but can also be used to lend, borrow and even to send payments around the world with lower transaction costs.

Jeremy Allaire joins us now he's the CEO of Circle. Jeremy, great to have you with us. Now is trying to put it in the simplest terms I can, but just

explain for my audience, again, what you do at Circle and how USD coin is being utilized around the world?

JEREMY ALLAIRE, CEO OF CIRCLE: Absolutely, and thanks for having me on. So USD coin or USDC, as it's generally known, is essentially a way to take

dollars that we have in the traditional electronic money banking system. And as we like to say, upload them to the internet and sort of convert them

into a digital currency form that then can be used to transact directly on the internet, peer to peer or business to business.

And just as we've all become accustomed to the ability to share information and data or emails, or have live video with people anywhere instantly in

the world, USDC is a technology kind of brings the price stability of $1. But the internet as a medium of exchange, and it works on top of what's

called blockchain technology, which is the same technology used by other digital currencies and Cryptocurrencies.

But we use it to have a fully backed dollar. And then give it as I like to say, the superpowers of the internet for moving money around the world.

CHATTERLEY: I love how you laughed gently when you talked about the stability of the traditional U.S. dollar there because that's been a

challenge. But to your point, that backing is really important. And I believe in you can talk me through it, you made a decision. Just recently,

in light of all the negotiations in Washington to take some of the money that you had stored in shorter term U.S. Treasuries.

And I know a chunk of it was in cash as well. And take it out of U.S. Treasuries, if they were maturing, or you were expecting to get your money

back beyond the end of this month. It's sort of crazy, just explain the decision there.

ALLAIRE: Yes, so $1, a digital dollar like USDC. The reserves for that are held in cash and in what are considered to be the safest dollar instruments

in the world which are short term, U.S. government treasury bonds.


So three months or less and that's in the financial world what is often described as a cash equivalent instrument, it's something that is as good

as cash. And it's, you know, undergirds the short term, U.S. government bonds undergird all of the plumbing of the financial system, in fact, but

in a product, as you described in your introduction, where, essentially, the promise of the product is that you can always redeem it for $1.

If one of those instruments meaning what is, you know, generally considered to be the safest instrument in the world, those short term government bonds

isn't actually worth $1. Or actually, the bond itself cannot be repaid for some reasons, such as the government defaults. That's a real problem.

And so what we have done and, you know, this has been communicated publicly is, and we took a decision we started planning for this months ago, which

is that we did not want to hold any U.S. government treasury bonds that matured past May 31.

And so we've sort of evolved the reserve structure to be holding, highly safe, you know, what are called Tri-party Treasury repos as an alternative

to holding those U.S. government bonds, but the way I like to put it is, you know, we have to protect USDC from the actual dollar de-pegging.

And so in a sense, the U.S. government default, the pricing on the dollar, which is the short term government instruments would effectively not be $1.

And so, you know, we're trying to manage through that period of time, where, you know, those doors could not be liquid, at least at their face


CHATTERLEY: Yes, you've been through this once before, when Silicon Valley Bank collapsed, and you were caught up in that, and you have that same

situation where USDC, traded below the value of $1, which I mean, we can talk about, but I know you, you're certainly perceived, I think in the

industry to have handled that incredibly well.

But I think the bigger point here that we should talk about perhaps is the idea that you're getting out of what's up until this point, bar a few

examples perceived to be the safest asset, do you actually think it's possible that the U.S. government could default on its debt? Are you just

being as absolutely cautious in light of recent events as you possibly can be?

ALLAIRE: Yes, you know, I think it's more the latter, I think we want to be really cautious. I think, you know, in in the earlier incident, you know,

we had a failure in the fractional reserve banking system that infected us. And that's been a concern of ours for some time we would like to see a

structure where we don't have to hold cash, in risk taking banks.

We would ultimately rather have a structure where we could hold, you know, a portion of cash at the Fed, where we could hold things like repos. And

then these, these treasury bills, and I think that would be the right structure for the safest digital dollar that you could have that then

people all around the world would trust.

And it would actually make the dollar itself more competitive. But, you know, our view is I don't want to take a view on whether the government

will default or what's going to happen with all this. And it's just, I think, prudent risk management for us at this stage.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, but I think the point there is important that you're sort of making choices where you store more money, perhaps in the traditional

banking sector, and you've sort of got your head in your hands over that, too. Do you think this is a huge opportunity more broadly for the crypto

space, because you've long talked about the prospect of de-dollarization?

I think Christine Lagarde at the European Central Bank was talking about not taking your reserve status of the U.S. dollar. She was talking about, I

think the Euro as well for granted, given the sort of geopolitical backdrop that we're in at this moment too.

Do you think what we're seeing even today, we have to be realistic about this sort of promote that de-dollarization and people looking at the

situation and going you knows what, we need alternatives?

ALLAIRE: Yes, I mean, there are a lot of big geopolitical, geo economic and macro themes here. And we think about this a lot and the sort of trend

towards de-dollarization is real. And it comes up every 10 years or so, and people talk about it. But the numbers tell the story, it's gradual.

Central banks are holding more of their reserves in alternatives like gold. But really importantly, geo economic blocs or building alternative payment

systems and really the new frontier for currency competition is the internet.


And the question that we sort of ask is, you know if the technological capabilities of the currency are going to be the next kind of battleground

and that battleground is going to be how those currencies are expressed on the internet? You know, there's a huge opportunity here for the United

States to lead to make digital dollar, digital currencies, well regulated, provide them with the very safest foundation possible.

But enable the private sector and kind of technology innovation to deliver that around the world. It's a huge opportunity, and it needs to happen,

because, ultimately, you know, businesses, individuals, households all around the world are going to be deciding over the internet, what economic

system they want to participate in.

And so you know that the United States has an opportunity here to lead and compete in this space, certainly, in the face of these broader trends.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and lawmakers have a responsibility not to scare people to death as well. And you've said a number of times, recently, in light of

this as well, that digital dollars are the solution, it's similar to what China's done, what would be the unique value, then in USDC, in the coin,

that you wish you if the United States digitizes dollars anyway?

ALLAIRE: Well, our view is that, you know, the Western system and the U.S. led system, we can learn a lot from the internet itself, which is that

clear regulation, and creating a fair competitive open market, allowed internet, software technology, internet firms, technology firms to build

the best technology in the world and really made the United States the center of technological innovation for so much of the past decades of

technical innovation on the internet.

As we move into a world of technical innovation in the sort of power of currency itself, that same playbook can be used. And so our view is that

the immediate opportunity is past clear legislation that defines what these payment Stablecoins are enable a free and fair and open competitive market

for banks and non-banks to issue these.

And provide, you know, the kind of supervision to make sure that everyone in the world knows that these digital currency instruments that are issued

through the private sector are as safe as possible, and unleash that competition. And I think if you have that the private sector is going to be

innovating on technology at an extraordinary pace.

And that's the advantage that the United States has is not having a centralized government that is trying to build and operate something with

total control and total surveillance, which is, as I like to say, don't try to outshine a China embrace free market capitalism, embrace open

competitive technology innovation, embrace the open internet, but build a clear rulebook around it.

And so that's how we see digital dollars achieving scale in the next five years. And that's very much what's in front of Congress right now with this

stable coin bill that's working its way through the house.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and hopefully, this sort of mess at that meeting of the debt ceiling negotiations gives them extra impetus to recognize the

necessity of it in some way. Jeremy, great to have you with us thank you so much for that. Jeremy Allaire the CEO of Circle.

ALLAIRE: Thank you, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you. OK, coming up after the break, D-Day for DeSantis, the Florida Governor is expected to announce his presidential run and he's

out trumping Trump according to some by turning to social media. That's next.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". And a Wednesday wakeup call on Wall Street to U.S. Stocks lower as investors worry about the lack of

movement in the debt ceiling negotiations with just over a week, according to the treasury to go before the so called X date.

That's the date that the United States could run out of money to pay its bills without a debt ceiling increase. No word yet, as we were hearing

earlier on the show on whether both sides in the talks will be meeting today.

And in the meantime DeSantis decides Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is expected to announce his running for the U.S. President position later

today for a while now. He's been considered Donald Trump's most formidable challenger.

Former President has made an effort to rally his base against Ron DeSantis and as mocked he on social media. DeSantis for his part is expected to

announce his run in a live discussion with Elon Musk on Twitter.


ELON MUSK, CEO TWITTER: Yes, so we'll be interviewing Ron DeSantis and he has a quite an announcement to make. And will be the first time that

something like this is happening on social media and with real time questions and answers. Not scripted.


CHATTERLEY: Donie O'Sullivan joins us now. Donie I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm just thinking that 2024 has the potential to make 2020 look

ordinary, my head just exploded. What do you make of this?

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean look, it's obviously a different approach in terms of DeSantis here, obviously intentionally

bypassing the so called "Mainstream Media", even FOX News and going directly first, to Twitter to speak with Elon Musk in this audio chat this

evening on Twitter spaces.

Look, Musk has been trying to you know market Twitter to kind of right wing conservatives in the U.S. Musk claims that Twitter is a kind of bastion of

free speech, although we've seen him suspend journalists. And you know, do as Turkish authorities tell him and center his platform there.

But you know, very much trying to serve the DeSantis I guess, audience we know, DeSantis likes to engage in all this kind of culture war type stuff

as well. But also quite notable you know, Musk is really, I guess, trying to make Twitter a platform where they host and create their own content

like tonight. But also we know that Tucker Carlson recently fired from FOX News is going to be launching his show on the platform as well.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's quite fascinating, isn't it? Nikki Haley, who is also a Republican Presidential Candidate has launched a video suggesting that

Ron DeSantis is an echo of President Trump and that voters deserve a choice, which I think is quite fascinating to your point about the

repudiation of mainstream media.

Now, never mind that because you've also been getting up to exciting things. Donie as you always do. And this is tied to artificial

intelligence, but the possibility perhaps, of AI, being able to work out what we're thinking?

O'SULLIVAN: That's right. Yes talking about things getting a bit crazy over the next few years we've heard so much about artificial intelligence over

these last few months. And now the very same technology that's behind ChatGPT might be able to read your mind have a look.


O'SULLIVAN (on camera): You're reading people's minds?


JERRY TANG, PHD STUDENT, UT AUSTIN: So we don't like to use the term mind reading?

O'SULLIVAN (voice over): These neuroscientists at the University of Texas in Austin say they've made a major breakthrough. They've figured out how to

translate brain activity into words using artificial intelligence.

TANG: These are different images.

O'SULLIVAN (voice over): Earlier this month, they published a paper explaining how they had research volunteers listen to audio clips, while

having their brain scanned by an FMRI machine. Over time AI algorithms the very same tech that's behind ChatGPT were able to figure out what the

volunteers were listening to just by watching their brains.

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): It is just crazy. You can watch how blood flows through the brain and using AI and GPT and everything else translated into


TANG: Yes, it's wild that this works when you put it that way.


O'SULLIVAN (voice over): To test it all out Professor Alexander, who should I have our brain scanned while listening to parts of the Wizard of Oz audio


I was scanned first followed by professor who's capturing images of the changes in our brains blood flow. As we listened to the words from the

audio book and showing how our brains interpreted those words. When she had finished her meal and was about to go back to the road of yellow brick, she

was startled to hear a deep groan nearby.

TANG: You can see that there were getting recordings every two seconds. While he's listening to a story, we will feed this data through our

decoder, and try to predict the story that he's currently listening to.

O'SULLIVAN (voice over): The next morning the results we're in.

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): OK, so it's been 24 hours since we got our brain scanned, you can confirm I have a brain.

TANG: Absolutely.

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): Brilliant.

TANG: So we were able to decode some stuff from my brain, not so much from yours. So this is one from my brain. This is from The Wizard of Oz. So on

the left side is the actual words that I heard when she had finished her meal and was about to go back to the road of yellow brick, she was startled

to hear deep groan nearby.

And the decoded version of this is on the right. I was about to head back to school and I hear this strange voice calling out to me. So it gets some

things right. So this like was about to go back was about to head back. It completely misses some things like the road of yellow brick versus school,

but then it gets this, this nice kind of example.

So she hears something and then instead of a deep groan nearby, it said a strange voice calling out to me that means something related, even if it's

not exactly the right words.

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): So pretty incredible I think that was about to head back as something that just by scanning your brain.

TANG: Yes, I think that's one of the things that are really surprising to us about this, it can get things like that can get these entire phrases of

exact words, because so here are the same segments for you.

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): Now, so we expected mine, not to be great?

TANG: Because we haven't trained the model on you. The whole day, I'd be fine, but she wanted me to make it to her place. First, I got a little

excited about it.

O'SULLIVAN (voice over): The reason it wasn't able to decode my brain was because the technology currently needs people to sit in the FMRI machine

for more than 16 hours. So the AI models can train on specific people's brains.

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): Are we going to live in a world where you know, I can walk by somebody on the street and they'll be able to hold something

over to my head and they'll know what I'm thinking?

TANG: Currently, we're very far from that. That might also never be possible. We can't completely rule it out. But as far as we know, that

certainly won't be possible in the next few decades. The real potential application of this is actually helping people who are unable to speak

without them needing to get neurosurgery. Now we have this like snapshot of the brain

O'SULLIVAN (voice over): And Jerry Tang explains how they use open AI is GPT large language model to help decode the brain. The GPT model is made up

of millions of pages of text from the internet that the AI trains on and learns how sentences are constructed and how people talk and think?

TANG: GPT basically made our predictions a lot better.

O'SULLIVAN (voice over): But it doesn't just work listening to audio professor who showed us what happened when he watched a movie with no sound

while his brain was scanned watch as the technology is able to decode what his eyes are seeing.

TANG: She then took my hand and held it to her lips. She kissed it. I smiled.

O'SULLIVAN: Oh my god.

TANG: She -- me in for a hug. I got her back for about hours, I had to stop the bleeding and gave her my shirt to put over it. It was pretty good. I

don't know. It's that description of what was happening here.

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): Wow. Should we be scared by the work people like you were doing?

TANG: We think it's really important to continually evaluate the implications of branded coding, and also to start thinking about enacting

policies that protect mental privacy and regulate what brain data can be used for.


CHATTERLEY: Wow, that's all I can say. And that's the second time I've seen that you know we were talking about it before the show and my producer Bob

said to me I know where this is going when I come home and my wife says.


How many beers did you have? And he says two and the AI button the house go seven. Like, I know what it was. He's going to kill me for saying that. I

don't know Donie just 16 hours; imagine if they had you for a month?

O'SULLIVAN: I know, right? Its look, I mean, it is right now. And even the researchers there will say this is works in very controlled specific

circumstances and environments. But you know, they can't rule out that one day. Something along the lines of what Bob is describing about the number

of beers he's drinking could happen as well.

But look, I mean, I do think you know there is a real, tangible use for this. It's obviously people who cannot communicate who cannot speak have

locked in syndrome. This could really change their lives because it could give them a way to communicate without having to have a brain surgery or


CHATTERLEY: Yes, incredible for people that can't speak to be able to communicate like this. The medical benefits are clear, and I'm also in big

trouble with Bob, by the way. Next question, were you the obnoxiously big brained person or that was that the professor?

O'SULLIVAN: Oh, that was my brain. Yes, that was my. I have a very big head. I don't know but the brain part of it.

CHATTERLEY: That's OK with the brain.


CHATTERLEY: Not obnoxious, please. Awesome work Donie.

O'SULLIVAN: Thanks Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Fascinating to see Donie O'Sullivan there. All right, and finally "The New York Yankees" baseball team may have found itself a brand

new mascot. At Tuesday night's home game in the Bronx, this super excited squirrel made a mad dash across the Yankees outfield wall browsers, the

fans responded as if they've never seen the squirrel before. Not seen one do that. Maybe they've never been to Central Park.

We've seen one or two and perhaps the squirrel was the lucky charm for the team. The Yankees went on to win the game. We hope the squirrel made it out

OK, too. There were some astonished faces there. That's it for the show. "Marketplace Europe" is up next I'll see you tomorrow.



STEWART: It's a case of whiskey business. This month how investors hunting for yields -- with answers at the bottom of a glass plus they are some of

the hottest trends in tech but can NFT's turn heads on the catwalk? We'll be heading to Metaverse fashion week in Paris. That is all coming up on

"Marketplace Europe".


STEWART (voice over): The light music of whisky falling into glasses. That's how James Joyce described the drink in 1914's Dubliners. Now, more

than a century on this storied spirit is attracting a new set of admirer's investors.

Rising whiskey prices have attracted buyers who aren't only interested in how it tastes, but in how much money can be made from selling it. I'm here

at Hedonism Wines in London's Mayfair home to thousands of rare bottles of wine and spirits to see why whisky has generated so much buzz?

TOM OLIVE, ASSISTANT SPIRITS BUYER, HEDONISM WINES: I think first and foremost it's a brilliant drink and it's having its moment at the moment it

could be in the future. There could be another spirit that takes over -- Armagnac it could be a different category. But I think you know, certainly

at the moment, the hype is huge.

STEWART (voice over): Last year, the price of whiskey is tracked by the Scottish Bank, -- rose by almost 20 percent. Even though prices are now

coming back down, it still proved to be tempting for investors seeking profits.

STEWART (on camera): Some of these whiskies date back to the 1930s. And today's sell for more than $200,000 of bottles. So at more than $7,000 for

a single measure it's not surprising that whiskey has earned the nickname liquid gold. Tom Olive is one of the spirits specialists at Hedonism Wines.

He says all kinds of buyers are looking for a piece of the action.

OLIVE: You've got people that are looking maybe for that quick flips, that kind of that buying and they're selling straightaway. There are some people

that are, you know, collecting for inheritance for their kids you've got the people that are very, very much into whiskies, the products.

And then there's the spectrum of people that you know, investing and thinking about it as much more than investment but I think there's a big

spectrum in between people that are passionate, but also know the value of these things.

STEWART (on camera): So if I give you a million pounds, would you put it all into whiskey or do you buy a house.

OLIVE: I would certainly buy a lot of whiskey I've opened some of these bottles that we've got that I'm not able to open at the moment with a

million pounds would be brilliant.

STEWART (voice over): Rare whiskey prices have risen almost 400 percent over the last 10 years according to the British Estate Agents Knight Frank.

While that growth is now slowing, the long term numbers still beat other high end collectibles like plastic cars, fine art or jewelry. Across London

at the Whisky Exchange, one of the city's biggest whiskey specialists like Frank's Partner, Andrew Shirley says the next few years should be more


ANDREW SHIRLEY, PARTNER, KNIGHT FRANK: When you've got an asset class or a lot of your most collectible, things are diminishing and volume because

people are drinking them. That suggests that it's a market that still got legs, but I don't think over the next 10 years, we're going to see another

370 percent worth of growth at the top end.

STEWART (voice over): Like any investment trend, there is concern over traders rushing in without knowing the risks. Shirley says it's important

for Investors to know what they're buying.

SHIRLEY: You've got this sort of new emerging market, which is more driven by investment funds sort of sort of jumped on, you know the whiskey story

in that's the kind of market that worries me a little bit because it's not driven by connoisseurship. It's driven more by marketing and encouraging

people to jump into a market that they don't really know that well.

STEWART (voice over): Of course, it's not only investors who are in the market for whiskey ordinary consumers are buying it in record volumes.

Scotch exports are at an all-time high at more than $7.5 billion last year. That's according to the Scotch Whisky Association. France, Germany and

Spain are among some of the biggest Scotch drinkers and the Association's Chief Executive says the outlook is bright.

MARK KENT, CHIEF EXECUTIVE, SCOTCH WHISKY ASSOCIATION: The demand keeps on growing. We saw growth across all regions and under the EU that was no

exception. Obviously the EU is a very important established market for us, but we expect the demand for the Scotch to continue on them.

STEWART (voice over): With that in mind, it seems only fair that I should sample some myself. And luckily I had a whiskey expert in hand.


STEWART (on camera): And I think it's time for a taste test.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It sounds about right.

STEWART (on camera): Where should we start?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I thought we could try today is actually something we're quite proud of here is a shop. It's an exclusive bottle for us. So

when you're looking at a blend, you're looking to kind of have a nice balance style.

So you've got lighter whiskies mixing with heavier whiskies, and this would be that kind of -- heavier kind of spicier. Yes, so perfect for the time of

days right now. It's got quite a lot that kind of woody character actually with a little bit of water. The kind of the more floral lighter notes come

up like or express a little bit more.

STEWART (on camera): Are we tasting all of them?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unfortunately, no, we.

STEWART (on camera): I think that's a good thing.


STEWART (on camera): Up next, stressing the virtual runway at the Paris Metaverse Fashion Week. But first, let's catch you up on the business

calendar across the continent in "Marketplace Minutes".

STEWART (voice over): It's getting substantially harder for businesses and home buyers to get loans. That's according to a survey of Eurozone banks

earlier this month from the European Central Bank. The ECB says demand for credit to businesses in Europe also fell in Q1, the biggest fall since the

end of 2008

Looking ahead, we'll get some new data on Switzerland's economy for the first time since the emergency sale of Credit Swiss GDP numbers for Q1 of

this year are due out on May the 30th. There were zero groups in the Swiss economy in the previous quarter.

Also that day ministers and executives from around Europe will be in Portugal for the Lisbon Energy Summit and the following week and I'm bosses

will be gathering in Istanbul it's the annual general meeting of the International Air Transport Association, also known as IATA. I'll be there

with "Marketplace Europe" to speak to the continent's biggest carriers.



STEWART: It's not just whiskies and wines that are collectible, digital assets have been all the rage, which is why designers in Paris recently

held a Metaverse Fashion Week. So pair models stay in vogue and virtual reality. Our Saskya Vandoorne has all the details from Paris.


SASKYA VANDOORNE, CNN SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER (voice over): Bold, bespoke and entirely digital. This is high fashion that you can't touch. Fashion Week

in the Metaverse as brands turn to the internet for -- tools a new horizon.

ANDREA ABRAMS, FOUNDER AND CEO, PHYGICODE: We change how we dress for different things, right? It's the same in the Metaverse, and it's the same

as social media we dress differently to represent these things. These are the armors of our life.

VANDOORNE (voice over): Last year, participants bought 7000 wearable for their avatars, averaging around $10 per sale. An E outfit can easily cost

as much as a real world dress, even if it's still far less than the price of odd couture.

But this year unique visitors and sales were down nearly 50 percent. Organizers blamed the lackluster turnout on the relative newness of this

online world. In only its second iteration, the virtual event based criticism about its user experience, its value, and whether digital fashion

is really necessary.

Even Mark Zuckerberg's Meta has recently shifted its attention from virtual social spaces to artificial intelligence. But some brands and content

creators are continuing to experiment regardless, alongside some of fashion's biggest names.


GIOVANNA GRAZIOSI CASIMIRO, HEAD OF METAVERSE FASHION WEEK 2003: I think it's about bringing some utility to what they have been creating in the

crypto virtual space. So for example BNG they are not presenting their own creations they are presenting the result of craters competition. So I think

it's like really reversing the discussion about OK, what you guys are creating how we can take that as our food for creativity.

VANDOORNE (voice over): It was a trend born out of the most unlikely circumstances. In 2020, as the COVID-19 pandemic swept the planet, many in

the fashion world took refuge online, experimenting and working via new technologies, including the Metaverse.

ABRAMS: So I think everybody came more comfortable saying, well, maybe this is the way we communicate. So definitely, from a customer adoption, we saw

that people try and on filters, be more comfortable testing NFT's.

VANDOORNE (voice over): For designers to more at home working with silks, then lines of code, it's been a new arena, some reimagining old designs


RUBIN SINGER, FASHION DESIGNER: One of the things that we were encountered with was that the chain, for example, couldn't be longer than before

fortunately for four or five feet or something like this, and that's the dress right behind us being brought out.

VANDOORNE (voice over): Some like moving singer have turned to collaborations with established digital creators to enter the Metaverse.

SINGER: That's the biggest challenge proportion, fabric and movement. Really, how does fabric move and what does it do?

VANDOORNE (voice over): Others have taken the plunge into digital design themselves, and found unexpected rewards.

PETER DUNDAS, FASHION DESINGER: What you do for the Metaverse sometimes are things that you're most challenged to do physically, sometimes you almost

want to try to recreate in the physical world afterwards.

VANDOORNE (voice over): Powered by Blockchain technologies Metaverse, fashions in spaces like -- still require a huge amount of energy to run.

Neither will the Metaverse likely eradicate our demand for fast fashion, but some hope it will bring about positive change.

EVANGELO BOUSIS, CO-FOUNDER AND IMAGE DIRECTOR, DUNDAS: I think that it'll become a space where people will be able to buy and wear clothes that they

may not be able to afford in real life. And I think that's one way of bringing our fashion that matters.

VANDOORNE (voice over): Still in its infancy, the real question will be whether the masses come flocking to digital fashion. Saskya Vandoorne, CNN



STEWART: That is it for this month's episode of "Marketplace Europe". Now you can find more from us online at but for now, thanks for

watching and goodbye.