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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Russia: Ukraine Attacking along Southern Front; NATO Prepares for its Biggest Ever Air Exercise; Trump Admits on Tape he didn't Declassify Document; Calvino: We have Outperformed our Targets; Manchester City Look to Complete Historic Treble. Aired 9:15-10a ET
Aired June 09, 2023 - 09:15 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: A warm welcome to "First Move", great to have you with us this Friday. You are watching special CNN
coverage of the indictment of Former U.S. President Donald Trump on seven federal charges tied to classified documents found at his Mar-a-Lago home
CNN will continue to follow this developing story during the show and throughout the coming hours. In the meantime, much more coming up this hour
too, including a conversation with the Spanish Vice President and Nadia Calvino will discuss the government's decision to call snap elections, what
it means for economic policy in particular this year, and why she sees voters should trust them for another term?
Spain also managing to outperform the Euro zone, both in terms of growth and in terms of tackling inflation. The question is, of course, what next?
For now, though, we'll begin with the latest developments in Ukraine. And Ukraine has launched attacks on Russian forces in the south of the country,
with officials in Russian held territory describing "fierce fighting" in the Zaporizhzhia region.
All this comes as floodwaters in Kherson start to recede following the collapse of a crucial dam on Tuesday. Although, President Zelenskyy says
Russian forces are still shelling evacuation points. Let's get straight to Sam Kiley, who's in Central Ukraine for us now, Sam, good to have you with
I think this week is firmly established that we've moved into a more intense phase now in the fighting after months of effective stalemate.
What's your read on what we're hearing both from the Ukrainians and the Russians at this moment?
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, in a weird way, there's a degree of agreement actually, Julia, over what's happening on
that front line between Zaporizhzhia and the City of the Donetsk essentially runs east, west in the most vague terms, that's been a quiet
front, but a front that the Russians have been reinforcing in some depth for many, many months, because it is the main route south potentially for
the Ukrainians to try to punch through to Crimea.
Now the Ukrainians and we've spoken to officers on that front line are saying that they are conducting reconnaissance in force or by force. That
means that the relatively low numbers of personnel are attacking locations along that front to try to probe for witnesses to look for in the Russian
Now, the Russians describe this in more dramatic terms saying it's a very substantial attack. I don't think it is. But it is in part of some much
warranted massive counter offensive and we may never see a mass movement of troops as part of that counter offensive. But this definitely is part
certainly of the shaping operations that are going on in the south.
At the same time, Julia, up around the City of Bakhmut that place described again, by both sides as the meat grinder because it's such a vicious
location or location of such vicious fighting. The Ukrainians are now claiming that they've had significant success to the south, punching
through a corridor of land they say about three kilometers or more.
That's about two miles deep into territory that they had lost in the past over the last six months or so to Russian advances. All of this adding up
if you add in the raids that the Ukrainian by Russian forces have been conducting into Russian territory, adding up to an increasing level of
energy and violence coming from the Ukrainian side.
As I think we could probably say this counter offensive begins to pick up pace possibly is the best way to describe it, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Always great to have your context. Sam Kiley, there in Kyiv for us, in Central Ukraine, my apologies. Now, the war in Ukraine also at the
forefront of discussions at the White House Thursday between President Biden and visiting British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, the President
thanking the Prime Minister for the U.K. partnership in the war, and hailing the relationship between the two nations.
Shortly after that CNN's Kaitlan Collins spoke exclusively to Prime Minister Sunak about the situation in Ukraine and his view too, on engaging
RISHI SUNAK, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I think the most important thing for us to do more generally, is to ensure that Ukraine is successful, because
you know, the --
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Do you think -- as application?
SUNAK: Well, I think more generally, I think, you know, when autocrats and dictators like President Putin are disrupting the global order, and
conducting illegal and unprovoked invasions of other countries and violating their territorial integrity, I think it's right, that we stand up
to that and whoever it is needs to see that when you behave like that you're going to be met with a pretty strong response.
And I think that's why when I say, you know, why is it important for the U.S. and all of us to support what's going on in Ukraine? It's because
we're defending the rules that we spent a long time building over the past half century and we need to send a strong signal of deterrence to
aggressors everywhere, that that kind of aggression is not going to go unchecked.
COLLINS: Do you want to meet with either of them, President Putin or President Xi?
SUNAK: No, look, you know, in general in engagement is a good thing. And what I would say is with regard to China in particular, this is not about
decoupling, it's about de risking. You know, there are many topics on which, you know, it's right to engage with China, whether it's global
public health, macro-economic stability, climate change.
These are big global issues that aren't going to get resolved without China, engaging when those discussions have been part of the solution. So
whilst I think it's absolutely right to recognize the challenge that it poses, take the steps necessary to protect ourselves work with allies to do
You're where it makes sense to engage on these global issues with China where obviously they do play an important role. I think that is entirely
right and reasonable too.
CHATTERLEY: And against the backdrop of the fighting in Ukraine, a massive show of force from NATO. It's preparing for its biggest ever air drill over
Europe with 250 war planes, simulating NATO's response to an attack on Europe. Nic Robertson joins us now from Jagel in Germany.
Nic, good to have you with us, we're talking around 10,000 participants I believe this is going to be one heck of a show of force, perhaps a strong
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Certainly a strong message. The commander of the forces here, they're the German commander of
the whole NATO operation says that it's not a message for President Putin, per se. But I mean, look at the F-16's lined up behind me and I'm looking
at a bigger find of them in the opposite direction here.
It's a massive effort. And he was talking about that earlier today. When he was briefing the press, that air operation itself gets underway on Monday
runs the 23rd of June and as you say, the biggest ever in NATO's history in terms of sort of air exercises, like there are 25 different nations
But he said look at it this way. You know, normally under sort of normal circumstances from militaries, the United States can move tanks from the
United States to Europe, other heavy armored equipment. It takes weeks, maybe months even. He said has been able to scramble here over the past
week 190 fighter jets, part of that 250 number you were talking about there to take part in this air exercise.
So it is significant in that it shows how quickly you can get a big military force that is an effective deterrence to a red line NATO, the
border of NATO territory not far from here bordering with Russia, not far from the war in Ukraine. But the message that he says is more internal, for
NATO's own consumption for its own public to show, that they can act quickly that they can work together fast, that they can provide this
And that credibility comes with working together. And I was speaking to a young F-16 fighter pilot, based in Colorado who was telling me, look, I've
never done one of these big air operations before and here I am just a couple of days ago, flying next to a Euro fighter.
He said I never would have had that before. That's what this is about, for NATO terms politically, diplomatically, for sure. There's another message
diplomats will say that the military commanders here, it's all about training. It's all about interoperability.
CHATTERLEY: Nic, great to have you with us and that yes, certainly a scene behind you to appreciate. Nic Robertson, there in Jagel, Germany. Thank
you. And the French President has been visiting the victims of a stabbing which took place in children's playground 4 toddlers and 2 adults were
attacked on Thursday in the town of Annecy.
Authorities say this Syrian asylum seeker is accused of carrying out their assault. He was seen entering a playground with a knife and going after the
children in their strollers. More "First Move" to come after this. Stay with us.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", on day clearing the air edition of the program this Friday. I think everyone here in New York City,
literally breathing a little bit easier. A smoke from the Canadian wildfires moves out of the area, though the wildfire threat far from over
yet with smoke from the fires, now reaching as far away as no way lasts on there at least to protect you.
And for wildfires to the S&P 500 on fire, U.S. stocks mixed in early trade today, but investors celebrating an important milestone with the Wall
Street benchmark closing Thursday session in fresh bull market territory.
So that's up 20 percent from its most recent lows, the S&P now at almost 12 percent so far this year. Now recapping one of our top stories today, CNN
has obtained a transcript of an audio recording where former President Donald Trump admits having national security documents that he had not
declassified, and seems to have wished he had.
According to the transcript in a private meeting back in 2021, he said, "As President, I could have declassified, but now I can't". And this goes
against what he'd been saying publicly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you still have any classified documents in your possession?
DONALD TRUMP, 45TH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Are you ready?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you?
TRUMP: No, no, I don't have anything. I have no classified documents. And by the way, they become automatically declassified when I took them. If
you're the president of the United States, you can declassify just by saying it's declassified even by thinking about it, because you're sending
it to Mar-a-Lago or to wherever you're sending it. When you send it, it's declassified, I declassified everything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: So the point here is this could be crucial evidence and an investigation that marks the first time a former U.S. president has faced
federal charges. He's just been indicted on seven counts in the classified documents probe. And Paula Reid joins us now.
Paula, this is your reporting. The message here, I think for my viewers to understand is that it seems that the president willfully retained these
classified documents and I knew it shouldn't have done.
PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely not. Last week, we broke the bombshell report that prosecutors have an audio
recording of the former president not only claiming to have classified information, but also acknowledging the limits of his ability to declassify
And this undercut the public statements from former President Trump from his allies, and even from his own lawyers. Now I want to read you some
portions of this transcript. He's talking about General Mark Milley there and then an article that upset the former president. He was talking about
And he says well with Milley, let me see. I'll show you an example. And he says that he has a big pile of papers. This just came up. Look, this was
him. They presented me this. This is off the record. But they presented me this. This was him.
This was in the Defense Department and him. We look at some this was him. This wasn't done by me. This was him. Now I'm sure you're not able to count
while I talk. But at least four times he says this was him. He's trying to rebut what Milley allegedly said about the former president's plans for
Iran. I'm going to go on.
He says again, he's speaking to a group of people at his Bedminster golf club, none of whom have security clearances. He says all sorts of stuff,
pages long look, wait a minute. Let's see here. I just found isn't this amazing? This totally wins my case, you know, except it's like highly
This is secret information. Look, look at this. So I want to pause for a second. Secret and confidential are two levels of classification. Here in
the U.S. he seems a little bit confused about which one it is. But he's also appearing to want to show this to the other people in the room.
We know in the room are two people working on an autobiography of his former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, and then two of his aides.
And he knew he was being recorded, because he was in the habit of having his age record conversations with journalists. Perhaps the most damning
quote is that, he asks, can we declassify this?
And then he answers himself saying, as president, I could have declassified. But now I can't, which, of course, undercuts his public
defense, which is that he was able to declassify all of this, with his mind. And incredibly damning piece of evidence in the hands of prosecutors,
it's unclear, though, whether this will be included or quoted in the indictment.
CHATTERLEY: Paula, there's all sorts of questions being asked and the questions that will continue to be asked. One that I've seen pop up quite
frequently on social media, and I think that's from Trump supporters and some Republicans who are saying, look, there's double standards at play
President Biden was also found with documents. What's the difference here? And where's that investigation if you're deciding to indict President
Trump? Can you explain the difference?
REID: Yes, look, I've reported probably more closely than anyone on the Biden classified document investigation, much to the chagrin of our White
House. But these are similar in that they are both Special Counsel investigations into the possible mishandling of classified documents their
full blown criminal probes, but there are clear differences.
Let's start with just the volume of material. For the President Biden case, there's dozens of documents found in boxes, no evidence that he knew they
were there, they appear to have been packed away sort of in the chaos at the end of the administration, according to the one witness who has spoken
Now when it comes to Trump is over 100 pages of documents, it was about 18 months of investigators of judges urging the Trump team to go back and look
They handed over 15 boxes early 2022, they handed over more documents than the FBI got a search warrant searched and found more. Then there were
subsequent searches where they discovered even more documents. And there are also questions about whether there were efforts to obstruct that
You also have this audio recording where he appears to be acknowledging that he had this and attempting to share it and they have not been
completely cooperative with the Justice Department. Whereas the Biden team while they have not always done everything exactly how the Justice
Department would have preferred it in terms of timing and communication.
There's no evidence that they have tried to obstruct the investigation, or again that the then Vice President knew who was taking classified
information or they were aware. Now look, mishandling potentially misplacing classified information is a serious issue.
But in terms of the legal threats in both of these cases, I mean, there is just no comparison. But I will note, each man has a special counsel and
independent individual overseeing this investigation, but to argue that there's a double standard. I mean, that just belies the facts as we know
CHATTERLEY: Yes. Paula, that's why we asked you because you're the most expert. Thank you for that, Paula Reid there. OK, coming up Spain at a
crossroads the country gearing up for a snap election that will test the popularity of socialist Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez and his government.
We'll speak to Vice President Nadia Calvino about the challenges ahead, almost more next.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". And what we can perhaps call Madrid's momentum the Spanish economy defying the odds in Q1 growing over
0.5 percent quarter over quarter. Compare and contrast that to the Eurozone overall, which we learned this week is technically now in recession.
Spain sporting also the lowest inflation rate in the Eurozone as well, thanks in part to government policies to help cushion consumers.
Encouraging news at least on the surface for the euro area's fourth largest economy, but as in other countries, the impact of things like higher
prices, that pandemic and the war in Ukraine have also weighed on sentiment.
That discontent now complicating socialist Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez's political path, and he's called snap elections for July 23 after a poor
showing for his party in regional and local elections, amid a rise in support for the far right.
Plenty to discuss then, and I'm pleased to say we are joined by Spain's Vice President and Minister for the Economy and Digitalization Nadia
Vice President, fantastic to have you on the show once again, we have lots to discuss, as always. Let's start with the decision to call snap elections
and bring them forward by several months. It's clearly I think, an effort to draw a line under some of the political uncertainty. Is it in the best
interests of the Spanish economy? The Spanish people, I know, you still have a lot of work you want to do.
NADIA CALVINO, SPANISH VICE PRESIDENT: Well, absolutely. But I think it was a decision based on responsibility and thinking about the interest of the
Spanish people. Because for the past five years, we have ensured political stability in our country, which I think has contributed to the strong
performance of our economy.
And going forward, it wouldn't have made sense to have six months or, you know, almost seven months of a perpetual campaign uncertainty. Moreover,
we're taking over the presidency of the EU Council in July. So I think it is in the interest of Spain to have clarity and to have a stable and strong
government going forward.
CHATTERLEY: As we mentioned, and I mentioned in the introduction, you have managed to see growth outperformed the Eurozone average, you've managed to
cushion consumers to the best you can I think in terms of the inflationary pressure that people have faced. Are those the two strongest selling points
you think for the government? And why people should give you another chance and another chance to run the country, for the administration, also
CALVINO: Certainly, I think that the, I mean, the Spanish economy is doing better than good. We had a year-on-year growth in the first quarter was 3.8
percent. Inflation rate is already around 3 percent. And the downward trend will continue.
We will have launched a massive investment and reform program which is actually kick starting a structural modernization of the Spanish economy,
which is already showing. And the results are also already visible in terms of strong employment, better quality improvement, employment. Green and
digital economy is booming as foreign accounts current account surplus that is also pulling the economy up.
So all these are positive indicators, the economy is doing very well. And that's why actually the opposition is trying to focus the debate on other
issues, values, and fake news and all sorts of arguments so as not to talk about the economy. Because I think that argument would be overwhelmingly
supporting that we go on being running the government in Spain, of course.
CHATTERLEY: I think one of the aspects that perhaps they could challenge you in terms of the economy is the cost of supporting growth, in terms of
government spending, and what you've had to do many nations, let's be clear if I've had to do over the past five years, the pandemic, the war in
Ukraine, the challenge is higher debt levels become more painful as interest rates rise.
And that's something that Spain alone can't control the European Central Bank government does. Vice President, how do you plan to bring the debt
levels down? But also try and continue to do the reforms and boost the economy as you've done, is that something that you recognize needs more
CALVINO: Well, fiscal responsibility has been one of our top priorities since we took office in 2018. Indeed, debt and deficit to GDP levels went
up because of the response to the pandemic so that we could fund tax reductions, short term work schemes, subsidies to weakest parts of our
But as soon as the, we resumed the strong growth path, we have started to go down. And so we reduced the debt to GDP level last year, by five
percentage points, we have outperformed our targets. And our fiscal path has been validated by the European Commission a couple of weeks ago.
So we are on track to absorb as fast as possible, the extra cost derived from the pandemic, and all these in a context of strong growth and job
creation should, you know provide us with confidence when we look to the future.
CHATTERLEY: That I think show of competence from the EU over future plans is also part of allowing you to hopefully unlock 90 billion euros worth of
war chest over the coming sort of three years. So it's the next government that's going to have the majority control over that. I know the European
Investment Bank manages around a quarter of it.
How should that money be used, Vice President and perhaps more importantly, how should it not be used?
CALVINO: Indeed, that's a very good question because we have set emotion and modernization process in the last two, three years, we front loaded
reforms and investments so that we could have a positive shock. And so we bounced back very strongly from the pandemic. But furthermore, we see the
size of the structural modernization and change with a green and digital angle.
And now what we need to do is pursue on that path, because this is showing to be the right way forward in terms of growth, job creation, quality job
creation, and higher productivity and potential growth going forward.
We expect that by 2024, potential growth in our country will double the level we had in 2018. We will be around 1.6 percent, GDP will be three
percentage points higher with this recovery, reform and investment plan as compared to what would have happened without the plan.
So the top priority for the next government, which I hope we will lead, and I will continue to be leading the economic policy, of course, should be to
pursue this path because it is proving to be the right approach for our country.
CHATTERLEY: I'm going to talk to you with the Minister of digitization -- in a moment. But I did read that not only are you in New York, and welcome
for high level meetings, but you're also here to collect an award, the Foreign Policy Association Medal, which I believe is their highest honor.
So congratulations, Vice President.
But this is awarded for responsible internationalism and educating citizens about foreign affairs and understanding I think Spain in your case is
placed in the world. For those that criticize and it is something that I see as perhaps a dividing line between your party and the opposition.
What is the importance of communicating with larger nations with other EU nations with the United States, for example, what's the importance to
Spanish citizens? Because I do think this is a distinction that needs to be made.
CALVINO: Yes, that's has a very good point, because since 2018, President Sanchez and myself and other ministers, I think that we have brought the
voice of Spain, to a different level as compared to the past. Spain is playing an important role leading important debates within the EU, and also
having a better relation with larger nations.
And you know, recently we had President Sanchez coming to talk to President Biden, and they discussed the important issues for the present and the
future, for example, so AI regulation, now with my digital health. So this shows that Spain is now I think, occupying the place that should correspond
to the fourth European economy, which was maybe not the case in the past.
And I regret very much, you know, that the opposition parties are actually not taking these very seriously, they do not have a strong representation
in international Fora. They do not speak other languages, they do not. And they portray these as irrelevant, which frankly, it isn't, I am very
honored to have got this prize.
And I think what it signals is that now more than ever, in this current geopolitical context, we need to work together and find ways to address
global common challenges in a constructive manner, reinforcing our multilateral framework, and moving away from confrontation and tensions
which are not contributing to prosperity, and peace throughout the world.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I certainly am. Thank you for your acuity on the English language, because it's certainly better than my Spanish. To your point
about trying to reduce conflict, I think the g7 was an interesting moment. And I want to ask you about that this, perhaps dividing line between the
United States and Europe over the handling of China and the relationship with China.
How do you view the importance of the trading relationship, the geopolitical relationship with China, from the Spanish point of view,
whether it's the war in Ukraine or beyond?
CALVINO: Well, I think generally, I mean, from the Spanish perspective, but also from the European and the world perspective, China is a very important
player. It is one of our key trading partners in Europe, but also the U.S. and Latin America and throughout the world.
It is also a geopolitical player that is instrumental to bring persistent the long standing peace in Ukraine and throughout the world. So we need to
engage constructively with China. And that I think is the smartest way forward, if we want to avoid that these dividing lines and this gaps widen,
leading to very negative path for the world economy going forward.
And I hope you know that all of us are playing this approach and that we bring matters to where they should be, which is the negotiation table to
find win-win solutions to the problems which we share.
CHATTERLEY: I'm going to have to save my conversation about the Spanish holding of the EU presidency in your ambitions for regulating artificial
intelligence to next time very quickly, because I have about 30 seconds left. I heard a rumor that you were planning to go on and head up the
European Investment Bank.
I know you've got an election to fight in the interim. Vice President, can you rule out that option, at least it being on the table at this moment?
And do you think -- is an option?
CALVINO: I never make plans; I think I've learned, I'm already almost 55 years old. So I've learned clearly that life brings you surprises, you
cannot make plans.
And I am absolutely devoted to my job as a vice president of the government committed to continuing with President Santos. And I really hope we will
win the elections and ensure continuity and stability in Spain going forward.
CHATTERLEY: Fantastic. We look forward to speaking to you again soon. And I'm going to email your fantastic press team to find out what face cream
you use. And I would be saying that whether you're a woman or a man, congratulations on that, Vice President and Minister of the Economy and
Digitalization. Someone's going to tell me all for that, great to chat to you. As always, thank you.
CALVINO: Delighted to talk to you too. Bye. Bye.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you. OK, just ahead on "First Move" an explosive finale on the show. We'll take you to Hawaii to explain this next.
CHATTERLEY: And welcome back to "First Move". Footballing Friday the biggest match in European football or soccer is just over 24 hours away.
Manchester City facing off against Inter Milan in the Champions League final and Amanda Davies is in Istanbul where all the action will unfold.
Oh, I have fond memories 2015 the Liverpool supporter and miss getting excited, but enough of that. Gunman city win the travel Amanda that is the
AMANDA DAVIES, CNN WORLD SPORT: That is the real question, Julia. I have to say I see it as one of the real privileges of my job, not just being here
at these major sporting events. But being at these iconic sporting venues in these hours head of the events when you know history is going to be
made, all the excitement, the anticipation of the buildup.
And this is always billed as the biggest club game in European football. But for these two teams in particular, it really is exciting. Inter Milan
back in the final for the first time since 2010 when they won it and completed that iconic elusive European travel of trophies that's winning
the Champions League and also your domestic league and cup competitions.
Only nine teams have ever done it in history. And that is what Manchester City is hoping to achieve tomorrow, to not only claim the Champions League
trophy for the first time ever, the one that they've been in search of since 2008 when the Abu Dhabi owners took over the club.
But also for the first time since Pep Guardiola took charge in 2016. They have dominated domestically this season. They won the Premier League and
the FA Cup -- and they very much are the favorites going into this one. But just a couple of hours ago, I was lucky enough to speak to Steven Gerrard.
He was the Liverpool Captain here at the Ataturk Stadium in 2005. I know you will remember it well. It's when Liverpool came back from the brink.
They were three nil down at halftime, they beat AC Milan on an odds defying jaw dropping performance.
That was the last time the final was held here in Istanbul. At this stadium again, it was an English club against an Italian side. But as Steven
Gerrard reminded me, Liverpool that year, were the underdogs, so do not write into Milan off, but the atmosphere very much building here.
The teams are just arriving at the stadiums actually, Julia, just before I hand back to you, we're about to hear the press conferences from the two
managers and a couple of the players and the teams will take to the pitch for their final training session ahead of the big kickoff tomorrow.
CHATTERLEY: I'm an idiot, I said 2015 because I'm losing track of time. I meant 2005. My father lost his voice that night. He was shouting so hard. I
believe those Liverpool players heard him on the pitch and we're well done to victory. Amanda, what an amazing night it's going to be.
Have a fantastic couple of days. I know you're going to have fun and do we shall see who comes through. Amanda Davies there, thank you. And finally,
to a red hot story to finish this Friday, another one, take a look at this. You're seeing eruptions from the Kilauea volcano in Hawaii.
Now the good news is that the alert for the area has now been lowered to a watch level from a warning level, I think I would prefer to be running
rather than watching. Now the eruptions are confined though to the crater within Kilauea summit caldera. The Hawaiian Volcano Observatory set there
was a six meter rise of new lava on the crater floor.
It's now begun to fall and eruptions though are expected to continue. That's it for the show. If you've missed any of our interviews today, they
will be on my Twitter and Instagram pages. You can search for @jchatterleycnn. Next we'll have the latest on the newest indictment of
Donald Trump. I'll see you next week.