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First Move with Julia Chatterley

Former Italian PM Silvio Berlusconi dies aged 86; AI in the Classroom; Gokulnath: It's Tech and Teachers, not Tech versus Teachers; Flash Forest used Drones for Reforestation; Researchers Studying Frog Movements with "Radio-Plants"; Father: The Four Children Survived in the Colombian Jungle because of their Upbringing. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired June 12, 2023 - 09:00   ET




JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: A warm welcome to "First Move", great to have you with us this Monday and plenty to get to this hour. We do

begin with the news from Italy that the Former Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has died at the age of 86. Berlusconi, a billionaire businessman

and media mogul was Italy's longest serving Premier.

His decades in public life were marked by numerous personal and professional scandals. Much more on his complicated legacy and the mark he

leaves on Italian politics in just a few moments time. In the meantime, also offensive, intensive Ukrainian soldiers were raising the nation's flag

after apparently taking back territory in the Donetsk region, Kyiv reporting some early successes in recapturing Russian occupied territory.

But also fresh reports too of American supplied armored vehicles being destroyed or damaged in the process. We've got all the latest on that just

ahead too. Plus, a miracle rescue after 40 days in dense Amazon jungle, four children found alive after surviving the plane crash that killed their

mother will take you to Columbia for the latest on that too.

And from Amazon amazing two bulls blazing the S&P and the NASDAQ looks set to build on last week's solid Wall Street gains, the S&P set to break

through the key 4300 level at the open today Europe mostly higher too. Swiss bank UBS in the green after completing its merger with Credit Suisse.

In fact, there are lots on investor's plates in the day ahead, plural on plates to on this spinning this time tomorrow we'll get the latest U.S.

consumer price data. The U.S. Federal Reserve announcing its interest rate decision on Wednesday we are expecting a Fed rate hike pause.

Will it be a long pause though or a pity pauses. Jay Powell said to shed some light on that too. And the ECB and the Bank of Japan are all in action

this week as well. A busy show, as always coming up, but first we do begin today's show in Italy. Tributes are being paid and condolences sent to the

family and friends of the Former Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi. Barbie Nadeau looks back over his life.


BARBIE NADEAU, CNN CONTRIBUTOR (voice over): The Jesus Christ of politics, the best political leader in Europe and the world. That is how Silvio

Berlusconi once described himself, and without a doubt he was a powerful political operator and businessman who sparked more than one scandal.

And despite a string of legal trouble and dubious friends, Berlusconi always managed to bounce back. He made his name as a business tycoon. He

owned the famous AC Milan football club for 31 years. At one point, he was the richest man in Italy.

SILVIO BERLUSCONI, ITALIAN PRIME MINISTER: I have always been adored by those who have worked with me.

NADEAU (voice over): First elected as Prime Minister in 1994. He was quickly removed when his coalition partners pulled out, but he was elected

to the top job twice more in 2001 and 2008, becoming Italy's longest serving Prime Minister since World War Two. And voters brought him back to

power in 2022 as a coalition partner with Giorgia Meloni and Matteo Salvini.

Charming and with a flippant sense of humor, Berlusconi's off the cuff remarks and missteps with protocol were often criticized. He welcomed the

newly elected U.S. President in 2008 by complimenting Barack Obama on his quote "suntan", a left German Chancellor Angela Merkel waiting during a

NATO summit.

And his close friendship with Vladimir Putin got him in hot water after he disclosed he had reestablished his friendship with the Russian President in

late 2022 after Putin sent him 20 bottles of Russian vodka for his birthday. He later blamed Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy for

starting a war, putting him at odds with Meloni.

The Prime Minister often surrounded himself with beautiful women. Allegations of a relationship with an 18 year old aspiring model which he

strenuously denied triggered a painfully public divorce. And revelations about his so called "Bunga Bunga" parties landed him in court on charges of

abuse of power and having sex with an underage prostitute. Allegations he also denied.

BERLUSCONI: It is absurd to think that I have paid to have rapport with a woman.

NADEAU (voice over): Meanwhile, the Eurozone was going through a financial crisis. Italy was hit hard and the government's debt ballooned 120 percent

of the GDP in August 2011.


The Italian Prime Minister promised to crack down on tax evasion and introduce other austerity measures but it was not enough. Berlusconi lost

his majority in parliament and was forced to resign as Prime Minister in November 2011.

In 2012, he was convicted of corporate tax fraud and banned from public office. Months later an Italian court found Berlusconi guilty on the

charges stemming from the "Bunga Bunga" parties and appeals court later overturned the conviction. He was voted out of parliament in 2013. Two

years later convicted of bribing a senator a decade before but never served time since a statute of limitations timed out in the same year.

At the age of 82, Berlusconi managed another come back. He led his forts Italia party in the European elections and won a seat in Parliament. A

month before he turned 86. He led his party back to power as the junior partner of the current ruling coalition. In the summer of 2020, a few weeks

away from turning 84 years old, Berlusconi was struck by COVID-19 and was hospitalized for 12 days.

He called that experience the most dangerous test of my life and boasted to journalists that his viral load entity of the virus.

BERLUSCONI: Was the highest one amongst tens of thousands.

NADEAU (voice over): Few could match the one and only Silvio Berlusconi. And even though the "Teflon Don" as he was known was in and out of the

hospital in his later years, he always managed to look remarkably younger than years.


CHATTERLEY: Ben Wedeman joins us now from Rome. Ben, love him or loathe him, he certainly seemed to live life in glorious Technicolor. How are

people reacting, there?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So the people here are sort of marking his death, nobody's celebrating. I think a lot of people

felt that he was a political leader, flamboyant with plenty of flaws. But nonetheless, he did appeal to certain part of the Italian national

character that is impatient with the bureaucracy with the high taxes.

And so he really did strike a chord with many people. But the fact of the matter is he was very good at running for office. And but when he held

office, he really wasn't able to change much in terms of improving the Italian economy. In fact, during the 20 years, when he dominated Italian

politics, the Italian economy stagnated.

Italy's debt went through the roof, so very little actually changed, if anything, things got worse as a result of his time in office but

nonetheless, he did. He was a charismatic character, there's no question about it. I attended several of his speeches. And certainly you oftentimes

found yourself nodding in agreement with what he said.

What he did, on the other hand, was often quite to the contrary, he was very much focused on preventing any legal action against him. And there was

a sort of a constant stream of cases against him during and after his time in office. And oftentimes he worked hard to change the laws to protect him,

to protect his personal and business interests.

So he leaves this earth with a very mixed legacy, but many Italians nonetheless, look fondly upon to him as a somebody who sort of cut through

a lot of the dusty, heavy language of Italian politics and spoke a certain amount of truth, didn't necessarily act on it, however, Julia,

CHATTERLEY: Yes, G8 meetings, NATO meetings, he always managed to make us laugh. One of my Italian friends described him as a consummate campaigner.

It was the aftermath but perhaps didn't always go to plan, Ben, good to have you with us, and our thoughts and prayers with his friends and family,

Ben Wedeman there.

The Ukrainian government says its forces are gaining momentum and taking back territory amid fierce fighting along the South and Eastern front

lines. Kyiv claims its troops have recaptured a string of Russian occupied villages along the Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia region border.

Fred Pleitgen joins us now live from Zaporizhzhia, Fred, good to have you with us. Have we managed to verify just what's been recaptured by the

Ukrainian authorities and the forces or is it just their word for now?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there are certain areas that we have actually been able to verify or at least geo

locate where those areas are where we've seen some videos of Ukrainian troops marching or going into villages going into buildings in some

villages and raising the Ukrainian flag.


And a lot of that, Julia, seems to be happening in the sort of Southeastern part of the front from where a lot of those offensive actions of the

Ukrainian Military have been taking place and what we've heard is that they're sort of marching southward from those areas apparently trying to

break through Russian defenses.

It's quite interesting. We haven't really heard anything yet officially from the Russian Defense Ministry, but there's Russian Military bloggers

who usually are very well informed who talked directly to Russian units who say that they are quite concerned about the situation on that part of the


And they also say that in that area, the Ukrainians are advancing. Nevertheless there do seem to be some significant losses. Also, on the part

of the Ukrainians, the frontline is, of course, very long, and in some places that the Russians have said that they have been able to hold

Ukrainian advances up and destroy a lot of armor, including Western donated armor speaking about Leopard two main battle tanks provided by the Germans.

But also, for instance, open source intelligence indicates some 16 Bradley infantry fighting vehicles, of course provided by the United States, that's

a large chunk of the vehicles that the Ukrainians got from the from the U.S. So it seems as though the Ukrainians are making gains.

But those gains certainly are coming at a price. And, you know, the big question on the ground, of course, has been whether or not this is really

the big counter offensive that the Ukrainians have been talking about. Certainly, there were some indications by the Ukrainian President this


However, there was also a video that was put out by the Head of the Defense Intelligence Agency here of this country where he was just sitting in his

chair for several seconds. And then writing came on the screen saying plans love silence of the Ukrainians continuing to say, if this is the big

offensive, they certainly aren't willing to talk about it.

But it is pretty clear, Julia, that along pretty much the entire front line here in Ukraine. The Ukrainians have the initiative while the Russians

aren't making any gains really significantly, in any areas that we can see, if we look for instance, at Bakhmut, which of course is a town that has

seen a great deal of fighting over the past couple of months.

There also, the Ukrainians right now are saying that they are the ones who are making significant gains on the battlefield, while the Russians are the

ones who are pulling back, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: But to your point sent to the Ukrainians not giving any further information about a way about what's going on. Fred Pleitgen, there in

Zaporizhzhia for us thank you. Now call it a case of crude reality, Goldman Sachs, today slashing its price target for oil this year by some 10


Goldman is gloomy on growth slows in China and the Eurozone enters recession. Goldman also fearing a supply glut, even a Saudi Arabia cuts

production. Well, we can take a look at what we're seeing in terms of price action lower down by more than 2.5 percent for Brent downwards and 3

percent for crude in the U.S.

Anna Stewart joins me now. The stand up for me on this and the reality check, actually, is the resilience of Russian oil supply despite efforts

from the west to restrict and stem it.

ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: Yes, because we have the supply side issues and the demand side and supply side issues here are really interesting. And

it's worth noting that Goldman Sachs actually raised their price forecast for the end of the year only in April, so just two months ago from $90 to

$95 a barrel.

They are slashing that on the supply side, they see huge beats from sanction countries like Russia, Iran and Venezuela. According to this

report, they say Russian oil supply is nearly back to where it was before the invasion of Ukraine, despite so many Western companies refusing to buy

it, despite the price cap and so on.

The fact of the matter is there are still buyers for Russian oil, particularly, of course, India and China. But I have to say undershooting

the compliance for too long does risk the ire of Saudi Arabia. So that may well rein it in. You've also got strategic reserves, particularly course

the U.S. that has also fed into the supply side issues.

And on the demand side, you can point to slowing economies recession fears, you can even look to concerns about China's economy and as a separate note,

actually from Goldman Sachs over the weekend, looking at the impact of China's property sector, but also we're out in a high interest rate


It's just less than investment learning to actually hold oil right now. And we've seen a lot of destocking. Goldman Sachs does see the price of oil

rising next year. They're citing rising emerging market demand slowing U.S., supply OPEC cuts, but they're still cutting their price forecast for

next May, which was at $100 a barrel now at 93, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, elegantly done. It's a mix of the supply side and the demand side here and it's how the two things interact. And they're playing

Whack a Mole. They're over at Goldman Sachs something that's the third revision, isn't it in six months?


CHATTERLEY: We'll keep on top of it -- Thank you, Anna Steward there. And in U.S. politics, Former President Donald Trump is traveling to Miami today

ahead of his arraignment in the classified documents case. He's expected to meet with lawyers and discuss forming a new legal team based in Florida.

Now coming up innovation in the classroom with artificial intelligence, the co-founder of one of the world's largest education tech companies, BYJU's

joining us to discuss, how its new ChatGPT models will transform learning.


And from Ed-Tech to environmental regeneration we'll talk to the CEO of Flash Forest about reforestation efforts using some high flying technology.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", ChatGPT open AI's text generating Chatbot has taken the world and classrooms by storm. With its ability to

write essays code and take exams. It's no wonder that authorities around the world are grappling with whether it's better to use it or ban it.

But what if you provide online education like our next guest, Bangalore based education company BYJU's became India's most valuable startup in 2021

is demand for online classes surged its flagship product BYJU's the learning app has more than 100 million registered students.

Well last week it launched three new AI models BADRI, MathGPT, and TeacherGPT. BADRI detects potential learning difficulties, MathGPT solves

math problems and TeacherGPT GPT serves as an assistant giving students personal guidance. At a time when lots of schools are banning ChatGPT,

BYJU's says its tools help transform the learning experience, not take it away.

But joining us is Divya Gokulnath. She is the co-founder of BYJU's, and she joins us now. That was a lot of dashes and acronyms. So I apologize for

stumbling around a little bit there. Welcome to the show.


CHATTERLEY: For our viewers that might not remember our conversations or what your platform offers, just in your own words, what the platform is,

who uses it and what you offer?

GOKULNATH: Yes, so today, we are proud to serve 150 million students and working professionals across the world from apps and services and

classrooms. So we've been able to help students learn better fall in love with learning. So we serve students from ages 4 all the way to 40 and

beyond, from early school preschool all the way up to up skilling and test prep.

We are core educators we've launched a company in 2011. And all along the way we've used technology to positively disrupt everything that we do, to

move from thousands to millions to ensure that learning is personalized, engaging and effective.


CHATTERLEY: OK, and then we have the pandemic and the wave of people going from, sometimes using online education to supplement. What they do to

suddenly that being the primary for many people around the world? How did that impact the number of people that both use the platform, but also

subscribe to the platform, because those are different numbers?

GOKULNATH: Yes, so just to put it in terms of numbers, prior to the pandemic, we had 50 million students on our various platforms, but post

pandemic, during and post, we've added 100 million more. So today, we have 150 million students and working professionals on our various platforms.

What the pandemic did was that it showed how online learning could be an integral part of mainstream learning. But it also showed that the future of

learning is not necessarily completely online. It's actually a blend of offline and online learning. The hybrid model is something that we've also

experimented scaled in India, where we've launched 300 hybrid learning centers over the last one year.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, incredible. So let's talk about the artificial intelligence impact of what you're doing, because, as we've said, you're

digital you can't escape this. The hope is that you can enhance the product that you're offering. Just explain how the user experience is going to

evolve, and is already with what you've announced and are adopting?

GOKULNATH: Yes, so with BYJU's WIZ, which is the suite of AI transformer models, two of which are powered by GPT 4 does is that we've seamlessly

blended the brilliance of artificial intelligence with the guiding touch of experienced educators. So our dedicated team of passionate technologists

and AI researchers, they've tirelessly trained these models on the billions of touch points of our vast and diverse student base.

So we meticulously aligned every aspect of our content with established curricula ensuring, I would say a perfect harmony between our AI models and

the existing educational framework. So over the past 1.5 years, we've trained, you know, various large language models like GPT 4.

And both sets BYJU's WIZ apart now is its unrivaled hyper personalization, which means that every student who uses our various platforms would learn

and you know, in a way, which is suited to them as per their style, as per this size, as per their pace of learning.

CHATTERLEY: Our Eagle-eyed viewers will recognize because I talk about this a lot on the show the difference between ChatGPT 3.5 and ChatGPT 4 in terms

of accuracy and a reduction in some of the crazy hallucinations is vast. So it's interesting to hear you talk about ChatGPT for which I think is


You talk about an accuracy rate of 90 percent. And you also mentioned the word training, how many people trained the data that's going into the

models that you're using, because the training is, key. And that's lots and lots of people. I guess I'm getting to the cost of all this, Divya. How

have you achieved this?

GOKULNATH: Well, I would say more than the people we also use the right tools. So just to be clear, it's not the large language model that does

math, it's the BYJU's tools that do math, like companies like GeoGebra, which we had acquired. So if I had to put a cost to this over the last 1.5

years, it would be close to $100 million, including the acquisitions that we made.

That has gone into training these models to ensure a very high accuracy. So close to 90 percent is a very, very good accuracy to ensure that the

students are going on a hyper personalized journey as per their style.

CHATTERLEY: That's a huge investment in artificial intelligence. Are you profitable? I know it's difficult in you're selling growth mode, you're

investing like crazy into things like artificial intelligence, are you profitable as a business?

GOKULNATH: We have multiple, I would say streams running under BYJU's. So we have the apps, the BYJU's learning app, which is profitable, but the

investments are heavy in the future, which is like AI. The investments are heavy in our hybrid mode of learning, which is BYJU's tuition center.

And we also have subsidiaries in India, like Aakash BYJU's, which are already doing well and cash flow positive. So it is a mix, I would say but

wherever we've launched the product some time ago, all of those are positive, profitable. But then there are investments being made in future

products, which we hope to be profitable very soon.

CHATTERLEY: You're working on it?


CHATTERLEY: Can you imagine a situation where this replaces teachers? And do you understand why some school districts, whether it's in the United

States or countries around the world are saying, OK, we have to ban this, it's effectively cheating. We can't control it. Is that a mistake in your

mind? And can it be better controlled and quite quickly?

GOKULNATH: On the question of tech and teachers for me, it's never been tech versus teachers. It's always been tech and teachers. And for this I

speak as a teacher myself, when I started at the age of 21. I know that if I had a tool, which would help me, give me feedback, categorical feedback

on how I could improve, I would be a much better teacher much faster.


So what all our AI models do is that they not just enable students, they also enabled teachers. These kinds of tools in the hands of the teacher can

help them teach better, can help them give feedback in such a beautiful way that they will be able to help a child understand exactly how they can do


So if anything, it's making them stronger. And just to put it in terms of numbers over the last 1.5 years, we've employed 25,000 teachers, most of

them women, teaching from home to the rest of the world. So if anything, tech has actually enabled teachers see what you say, of technology, the

opposite is also true. And I'm a strong believer that as long as you control tech, and it doesn't control you, it's fine.

CHATTERLEY: I love that it's not tech versus teachers, its tech and teachers, we need you perhaps do send a message. Would you agree, though,

very quickly, it's different doing this digitally to being in person in a classroom and being able to control this in some way? Do you accept that

difference? Or you say no, you can say no.

GOKULNATH: I see that it's best blended format.


GOKULNATH: I would say that learning is a blended experience. Learning is a holistic experience you need the touch of a teacher either physically or

virtually helping a child, mentoring a child. And then you need technology to aid them, which could be either online or offline.

I come from a world where we started in a completely offline mode. And then we moved completely online. Today, we have even hybrid products. So we've

seen it all and we've seen the benefits of all. So I would say there is a child who deserves to learn in a style that suits them the best.

Some children would prefer complete online learning, some would need the offline touch of a teacher and some would thrive in the hybrid format. We

should let them take the call and put them in the driver's seat.

CHATTERLEY: Oh my goodness, I have loads more questions for you. You're going to come back soon. And we'll talk more about the business itself but

for now, great to chat to you.

GOKULNATH: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you, the co-founder there of BYJU's, Divya, great to chat thank you, more "First Move", after this.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move" with a look at what's going on in stock market action. The Wall Street bulls enjoying a June jamboree a lot

riding on this week's fed interest rate decree. A pause, not a pivot we will likely see, plus meetings of the BOJ and the ECB.

On Wall Street today the major U.S. averages are up by a modest degree. Look, I'm still going. They all closed in the green last week too. And as

we mentioned earlier, big Wall Street tests just ahead with U.S. inflation data out tomorrow. And of course, that Federal Reserve rate decision on


Stocks in the news today include Tesla on track for its 12th straight day of gains. Shares what up some 14 percent last week and they're up almost

100 percent year-to-date. Shares all charged up on a new Evie charging partnership announcements with both GM and Ford, a couple of weeks ago too.

And today's Developing news from the banking sector.

According to a joint release from both parties JP Morgan Chase, the largest U.S. Bank has settled a class action lawsuit by victims of Jeffrey Epstein,

the victims that accused the Bank of enabling sex trafficking by the deceased financier when he was a client.

And Facebook facing new allegations of gender discrimination in job advertisements, human rights groups in Europe claiming the platform targets

users with job postings based on gender stereotypes. They say ads for preschool teachers, for example, are shown mostly to female users. Clare

Duffy joins us now. Clare, this was great reporting.

The message here is that certain demographics therefore a shortchanged on job opportunities because the algorithm chooses who it's targeting, and

some people miss out. How is the research conducted?

CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Right, so Julia, this UK non-profit Global Witness bought job advertisements on Facebook for real open

positions. And they targeted all adult users in seven different countries. And what they found, as you said is that often these job advertisements are

targeted by Facebook's algorithm to users based on historical gender stereotypes.

Now, just to give you a sense of what this looked like in France, for example, 86 percent of the users who saw a psychologist job ad for women --

psychologist job ad were women, 93 percent of the users who saw a preschool job ad, preschool teacher job ad were women.

But just 25 percent of the users who saw a pilot job ad were women and 6 percent of the users who saw a mechanic job ad for women. And what these

human rights advocates are concerned is that this is sort of reinforcing existing workplace disparities and making it hard to make progress in some

of these industries that have historically been occupied by mostly one gender or the other.

And it's sort of an issue of you don't know what you don't see these users who aren't seeing these job ads, probably don't even know that they're not

seeing them.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, so as you said, it reinforces the stereotypes, what are Facebook saying about this?

DUFFY: So Facebook has previously made some changes to address some of these concerns, the company no longer allows employers to target one gender

or the other with job advertisements. And the company also says it is working with experts across academia, human rights groups and other

disciplines on the best ways to study and address algorithmic fairness.

But these advocates say, look, this isn't enough that this algorithm is actually undermining some of these efforts by not allowing users or

employers to target certain genders. The algorithm seems to be doing just that. And these advocates now want authorities in Europe to investigate


CHATTERLEY: Yes, watch this space, Clare Duffy, thank you for that, great reporting. OK, coming up here on "First Move" a mission to accelerate

reforestation after wildfires. How one company is using drones and other technology to replant trees quickly and accurately, that's next.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". Emergency workers in Canada continue to fight more than 400 wildfires across the nation. Last week,

thick smoke from massive fires in Canada drifted over large parts of the United States. Remember this, triggering numerous alerts about poor air

quality, then places as far away as Greenland, Iceland and even Norway felt the impact.

Now with Canada experienced, experiencing what's likely to be its worst fire season on record. One company is gearing up for the reforestation

efforts. Flash Forest is using drones and tech like artificial intelligence to replant trees and regenerate areas devastated by fire. It says it brings

new levels of speed and accuracy to the jobs of restoring forests.

And joining us now is Flash Forest Co-Founder and CEO Bryce Jones, Bryce, fantastic to have you on the show. We'll talk about what you do as a

company first, but just start by explaining; tell me what you think of what we're seeing in Canada and why it's so virulent this year?

BRYCE JONES, CEO, FLASH FOREST: Hi, yes, so thank you very much for having me on the show. So, what we're seeing right now in Canada is unprecedented

scale of wild wildfires in Nova Scotia and Alberta, and in other provinces. And it does, it does seem to be getting worse and worse, kind of

exacerbated every year.

And this is obviously largely due to climate change. But there are other factors here that increase the scale and severity of wildfires, including

forest management practices as well. But this is a particularly severe year.

CHATTERLEY: And this is where you get to work, Bryce, because this is the point you begin the process of sort of analyzing the area, understanding

how quickly you can replant trees. And I believe you're already looking at some of these areas now to see what you can do in in 2024. So the

turnaround is incredibly quick.

JONES: That is correct. Yes. So we're actually I'm doing this today, I'm doing outreach in Nova Scotia in Alberta, to be planting these sites within

the next within the next planting season, which will be next spring.

CHATTERLEY: And explain the technology behind how you work out what to plant where and how you actually go about replanting physically.

JONES: Yes, absolutely. So our technology is it is drone based reforestation technology. And so we are really focused on accelerating

reforestation, doing this from the air and drones is really the best way that we that we can think of doing this specifically in post wildfire

areas. We have seed pods; each plant has a tree seed in it.

And these are designed to enhance germination, enhance the survival of these little seedlings when we plant them, and then we essentially fly over

a post wildfire area, we can access this through up remotely. And when we fly over this post wildfire area, we can fly these bonds at a very high

rate; we are actually shooting these bonds into the soil into the ground.

And, and by doing this, we can increase the germination rate. And we can essentially accelerate the rate of reforestation and bypassing the safety

risks, planting and post wildfires is inherently dangerous.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, so doing this with drones actually prevents requiring humans to get out there and perhaps going in what is pretty treacherous and

dangerous territory. What is the rate upon which these actually germinate and then grow?

JONES: Yes, so that really depends on the species and the site that we're planting. But we are selecting sites that have, that for us have

historically had the highest germination rates from arrival rate, but are still affected by severe wildfires. So in Canada there's a range of

ecosystems and biomes that we can plant in.


But we're focused on planting areas that are hit by high severity wildfires, and that we've got a lot of data that is proven out successful

germination using our technology. And so it really depends on a site by site basis.

But we have collected the data, we have done projects in these areas before and then we determined how many pods per tree we need, in order to hit the

ceiling density that we want to hit the stocking center that we want. So we generally planted 1500 seedlings per hectare, 1400 or 15 per hectare.

And we determine internally how many seedlings we need. But this rate is improving every year. We're constantly doing R&D on the plant science and

then on the engineering end as well, to ensure that we plant as efficiently as possible.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I see. So this is the science behind it, you map the region you understand which species perhaps will survive best in a certain

point and the distance between them in particular to understand sort of what the best rate of access will be and growth, I'm assuming too.

How much more efficient is it is doing it like this versus human replanting, which I'm sure it's been done in the past? How much more ground

can you cover what time period?

JONES: Yes, so great question. And first of all, I'll say that we have huge respect for human planters. It is crazy work that they do out there, and we

absolutely need them. So human planted spiked in the post-harvest industry, what we're doing is post wildfire reforestation. And post wildfire

reforestation is actually it is, it is very, it's not very common for humans to go in there.

They're very focused in the post-harvest industry, it's very dangerous. And so when we get in there, we can do remote site access. But in terms of

efficiency, we're planting it about nine times the rate of human planters right now. So on a per tree basis on a per value added person in the field,

we can plant it about nine times the rate of human tree planters, so that that gives you an idea for efficiency, yes.

CHATTERLEY: And what about relative cost?

JONES: They are kind of inherent initial costs kind of initial CapEx that we have on, you knows, pod production systems on our drone systems on the

field, logistics management and stuff like that, but there are economies of scale. And so we really tap into that as we start scaling the company and

automating our processes.

So our seed pods, every single seed pod contain one tree seed, but we're automating this entire process. We're about 90 percent automated right now;

we're leveraging a lot of machinery to produce these pods. We're almost producing about 500,000 of these a day.

And then, as we hit economies of scale, you know, over the next few years, the price drops significantly. And then we see a reduction in costs. It'll

bring us cheaper than conventional reforestation.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, fantastic. You and your team are doing great work and we'll stay in touch and keep the conversation going, looking forward to the

scaling up process. And Bryce, great to chat to you, thank you.

JONES: You bet.

CHATTERLEY: Bryce Jones there, CEO of Flash Forest, thank you. All right, coming up here on "First Move", survival against all the odds, four

children lost in the Amazon for 40 days, found alive, the details next.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". And this is a unique story; Stanford University researchers are tracking the movements of some very

poisonous South American frogs by putting them in trousers. Yes, you heard me right is CNN is Lynda Kinkade shows us. They're studying how the frogs

navigate and the stylish look, just a bonus.


LYNDA KINKADE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Why would scientists put pants on a frog? It turns out; it's a good way to track where they're

going. These poison frogs from South America are some of the most brightly colored frogs in the world, but they're dangerous to touch.

Measuring a mere two to four centimeters in length, their skin secretes toxins that can paralyze or kill a predator. Stanford University biologists

wanted to learn more about how male and female poison frogs navigate. So they tracked to the tropical rain forests of Ecuador and French Guiana to

study three different species.

ANDRUIS PASUKONIS, BEHAVIORAL BIOLOGIST: To study any behavior in the field, first, you need the ability to find the animal observe it and follow

it around. And we have these tiny tags that we attach with the little silicone waist bands, little harnesses handmade, there's a lot of little

sewing exercises to fit these frogs that, when we need to observe their behavior or know where they are as they move. We have the signal from the

antenna and we can find them and then we can record their location, we record their behavior.

KINKADE (voice over): The team wanted to explore the role sex plays in navigation, something that's been studied in rodents, but never in frogs.

PASUKONIS: What's interesting for us they have very complex potential behaviors. So males or females, depending on the species transport, their

tadpoles on the back that was a first on the land, and then they need to move them to water. So one of the parents will pick up the tadpoles and

navigate through the forest pretty far distances.

In our study, we have one species where female do the job and run around more and we have two species where males around run around and move more.

KINKADE (voice over): In the end, the team got a mixed bag depending on the species. In some cases, the female frogs navigated more quickly and

accurately than their males. The male frogs from all three species tended to explore more. And if you're hoping to catch a glimpse of the fashionable

frogs, you'd be out of luck. The researchers removed the pants from the frogs and release them when the study was over. Lynda Kinkade, CNN.


CHATTERLEY: I was about to say those are some very skimpy trousers there. I think we'll call them underpants and no frogs were harmed in the making of

that type. All right celebrations in store in Manchester after Manchester City won the Champions League for the first time they beat Inter Milan one

nil on Saturday, completing a historic treble of trophies.

There'll be an open top bus parade in the city later today. And Darren Lewis joins us now. Darren, yes, the celebrations are warming up. I'm sure

there were a few celebrations over the weekend as well, but it's only really half the city that gets to celebrate.

DARREN LEWIS, CNN SENIOR SPORTS ANALYST: Well, absolutely for so long here in Manchester, it has been the red half that has been celebrating obviously

those years under Sir Alex Ferguson, that treble in 1999 and the dominance for two decades and the esteemed Scottish manager.

But Pep Guardiola has changed all of that five Premier League titles in the last six years and now the Champions League. Just to give you some context,

in 1999, when the United won it city, we're in the third tier. Now there are the kings of Europe with the united trading in their wake.

So yes, they're going to have a party today. And you may well be seeing behind me some of the sky blue shirts that are pouring into the city

center. If I go to my left hand side Julia, I'm going to get my cameraman to pan around. You can see that van over there.

And the green hoarding, where on the other side of that is the stage that they are building for the players and Pep Guardiola to come out and

celebrate with the fans here this afternoon. Now, Pep Guardiola has been pictured this morning, outside Harvey Nichols, where he took pictures.

Obviously other department stores are available. But he's been taking pictures with fans today. He's been out and about in the city. The players

have been partying they've been in Ibiza, some of them others have come straight back to the city. But all of their city center will be a sea of

sky blue. This afternoon there'll be music, there'll be dancing, there'll be cheering and I think there'll be a few sore heads in the morning. But

the party is probably only just starting.


CHATTERLEY: I was about to say they are just getting warmed up. It's definitely going to be a true blue day there. Can we also talk about Lionel

Messi, please because on the show on Friday, we were talking about the Miami mayhem and the fact that he's going to be heading to Miami and the

excitement there, nothing compared to the mania that he faced in Beijing over the weekend?

LEWIS: Yes, the outlet Global Times reporting that the Argentina side barely able to get out of their hotel, they've been mob. Argentina play

Australia in Beijing on Thursday. And everybody wants to get a piece of the man who spearheaded his country to a fairy touch fairy tale World Cup final

success here.

And of course, we're there in December. And how often do you get the chance to see Lionel Messi the world's greatest player, that man who might lift an

eighth Ballon d'Or, the prize they give to the best player in world football this year. It is a once in a lifetime opportunity, so many people

taking that chance.

I've got to tell you, some of the tickets have been going for up to four times their market value such as being the demand to see him. They

obviously want to see the rest of the team as well. But Messi, the greatest one of the greatest of all time, they've got to get a chance to do. I'm

sure you and I would do too. Wouldn't we Julia?

CHATTERLEY: Of course we would, absolutely no question. I'm from Messi mania in Beijing. It's going to be a messy day, I think in Manchester.

Enjoy it, Darren. That's going to be a --

LEWIS: I agree to go there right.

CHATTERLEY: Darren Lewis there, thank you. OK and we're learning more details about an incredible story of survival. Four children siblings, aged

one to 13 years old were found alive in the Amazon jungle 40 days after the small plane they were traveling in with their mother and two adults


Sadly, all the adults were lost in the accident, forcing the children then to fend for themselves. The children's father says they were able to

survive because of their upbringing as indigenous people and their connection with nature.


MANUEL RANOQUE, FATHER OF RESCUED CHILDREN: We are indigenous people, I believe in the jungle, which is our mother. And that's why I've always kept

the faith and would say that both the jungle and nature have never betrayed me.


CHATTERLEY: The children are now recovering in hospital. And that's where we find journalist Stefano Pozzebon from the go to now. Stefano, I get

goosebumps every time I read about this story. And it's been a number of days now. What an incredible, incredible survival story. What are people

there saying? And how are the children doing?

STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN JOURNALIST: Yes, it's just an amazing story. No matter how you see to Julia. It's great actually to be here in front of the

hospital where the kids have been staying there seems Saturday morning, just to have a cash, we were able to speak just as -- .

So with the father yesterday and today we were able to speak with an army general -- sorry, an Air Force General who led the operation to rescue

them. And there is a good feeling, a general good, good feeling about the story.

One thing that the general told me that I think it's worth pointing out is that the kids walked for about 20 kilometers in those five weeks, they

stayed in the jungle. And that at some point, the GPS evidence shows that they stay that the search and rescue operations were so close about 100,

250 feet from the kids.

And they couldn't find them because the terrain, the vegetation, the rainy season made it the search so difficult. The general say that their team on

the ground had a visibility of about 30 feet, that's about 10 meters. And then that's why it took so long to find them.

And he was just very just very happy that at the end, after 40 days, they were found all alive in the jungle, the four of them. It was just great.

CHATTERLEY: Yes and also, to your point, actually, those that were searching for them and coming so close and not finding them but even after

40 days, not giving up. And I remember seeing an interview with the father weeks ago and him saying that, you know, he fundamentally believed they

were alive and that they could survive this. Just an incredible story that they never gave up and they searched till they found them.

POZZEBON: Yes, yes, exactly, Julia. And it's also a remarkable story frankly. As a reporter here in Columbia, normally indigenous people and men

in uniform especially in the rain forest, they don't get along really well. But here they joined forces.


There were about 130 special operation forces, Commandos, from the jungle that traveled to the area, and about 70 to 80 indigenous guides are from

the local communities of the indigenous people of the rainforest. They work together.

And in fact, to this day, we don't know who actually found the kids first, because all the teams were mixed with military and indigenous, it was just

as if the country came together to find them. It's just great, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: It's giving me a fog in my throat. Yes, a team effort. Thank goodness, they're alive. And Stefano, great to have you with us, thank you

for that. And finally, I want to leave you with some stunning time lapse pictures of one of the Philippines's most active volcanoes.

Nearly 13,000 people have now been evacuated from their homes as officials say Mount Mayon is spewing sulfuric gas and lava on the southeastern part

of Luzon, the nation's largest island. Authorities have set up a six kilometer exclusion zone and warned of rock falls, landslides and flying


Incredible pictures, we have everybody that stays safe. And that's it for the show. "Connect the World" is up next. And I'll see you tomorrow.