Return to Transcripts main page
First Move with Julia Chatterley
Security Concerns Mount ahead of Arraignment; Consumer Price Inflation Cools to 4 Percent in May; All Eyes on Interest Rates as Fed Prepares to Meet; FTC Sues to Block Microsoft-Activation Deal; Liss: Dating Apps can be a "Graveyard of Ghosting"; McCartney: AI used to Create "Final" Beatles Song. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired June 13, 2023 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNNI HOST: A warm welcome to "First Move". This Tuesday and another jam packed news hour coming up for you too, including Miami
Former U.S. President Donald Trump in Florida and just hours away from his arraignment on 37 federal charges tied to the mishandling of classified
documents. Trump says he'll plead not guilty. We take you live to Miami ahead of his appearance later today.
Plus hometown horror at least 11 people have lost their lives after a massive Russian airstrike in the Ukrainian City where President Zelenskyy
was born. Well, this as Kyiv claims battlefield victories against Russia in both the East and South of the nation.
And inflation watch the latest U.S. consumer price data showing pressure easing for an 11th straight month. Prices up and expected 4 percent
annualized. That's a sizable drop though from the net 5 percent level seen in April. The most important data for decision making at the Federal
Reserve this week, though, is the core inflation number.
And that came in at 5.3 percent. That's still way too high for comfort. Just a reminder call strips out what are volatile food and energy prices to
get a real sense of underlying inflation. Well, we'll discuss what the Fed could should and will do not always the same things with Allianz and
Gramsci Advisor, Mohamed El Erian later in the show.
In the meantime, I'll let you look at the market reaction U.S. stocks still pointing to a higher open the S&P 500 beginning today's session at a one
year high that's up 13 percent so far on the year. Tech still the outperformance with Apple closing at fresh all-time highs on Monday.
And gains in Asia too as the Chinese Central Bank cuts borrowing costs reports say the Chinese government is now considering larger fiscal
stimulus to help support its slowing economy also and Japan's NIKKEI closing above 33,000 for the first time in 33 years for some reason that
Toyota is the big NIKKEI winner jumping 5 percent on plans to build electric vehicles with longer range batteries. As you can see, lots to get
to this hour as always, and we begin with the latest on Donald's latest day in court.
The Former President facing federal criminal charges here you can see the Former President at his hotel in Miami on the eve of that arraignment his
calls on his supporters to come out and protest. Carlos Suarez joins us now.
Carlos what are we expecting whether that's from the Former President himself perhaps the security arrangements at the court today and also
potential for people to come in and show support for the Former President too?
CARLOS SUAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Julia, good morning. So the law enforcement presence outside of the federal courthouse here in Miami is
growing. Just a few minutes ago, the Miami Police Department shut down one of the streets to the West of the courthouse where we believe the Former
President later this afternoon will be driven by the Secret Service ahead of his three o'clock appearance before a federal judge. Here's a look at
where the case stands right now.
SUAREZ (voice over): In just hours, Former President Donald Trump will surrender at a Federal Courthouse in Miami.
MANUEL MORALES, MIAMI POLICE CHIEF: Make no mistake about it we're taking this this event extremely serious. We know that there's a potential of
things taking a turn for the worst but that's not the Miami way.
SUAREZ (voice over): Federal and local law enforcement officials are ramping up security around the courthouse expressing mounting concerns over
potentially large crowds of Trump's supporters gathering outside.
LINDA CATALINA, TRUMP SUPPORTER: We have unwavering support for Donald Trump, like we don't even care if he's going to be in jail. And we have to
write him in you know, a lot of us it's like Trump or nothing.
SUAREZ (voice over): Federal law enforcement is only tasked with securing the actual courthouse. Miami Police taped off the area with yellow police
tape and erected yellow barricades.
SUAREZ (on camera): Will that change because there is a lot of concern that people may try to storm the building or try to enter some of that area. I
mean, are you going to harden that area?
MORALES: Well, what I can tell you is reach back to the phones that have reached to you and tell them that there's no reason of fear.
SUAREZ (voice over): Former Miami Police Chief George told CNN that the choice not to establish barriers around the courthouse could be intentional
by Miami Police in order to avoid attracting crowds.
Trump is expected to be driven by Secret Service to an underground garage at the courthouse. He will not be seen by the public. Once he arrives he
will be placed under arrest read his rights and fingerprinted he will likely not have a mug shot taken.
Trump will then be taken to a courtroom on one of the top floors of the courthouse where he will hear the charges and enter his initial plea of not
guilty. Judge Jonathan Goodman, who is presiding over the arraignment, rejected a request from a large group of national media outlets to take
photographs inside the courthouse before the proceedings.
In a written order he says while the proceeding is "Genuinely historic" and of huge importance, allowing photographs would undermine the massive
security arrangements put in place. Trump's supporters gathered at Trump's Club, greeting him as he pulled up in his motorcade, giving the crowd
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We follow him anywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we'll do anything legal to stop this.
SUAREZ (voice over): Police had to intervene to break up a few anti-Trump demonstrators after they clashed with supporters. One protester wearing a
stripe the prison jumpsuit said this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I grew up in New York City. I know what a con artist he is.
SUAREZ: Alright, so going into today, Miami's Police Chief has said that they have enough resources, they have enough police officers to deal with a
crowd of up to 50,000 people here in downtown Miami. Julia, the big question in the next couple of hours is just how many people are going to
come out here.
There are a number of outstanding items that the Police Department out here has to figure out when it comes to the perimeter, the security of this
building outside. They've yet to make a decision on whether they're going to allow supporters of the Former President as well as folks who come out
to protest the Former President, if they're going to allow them to essentially demonstrate near each other if they're going to be allowed in
the same part of this courthouse?
And so right now, as we head into the day, the security presence, as we can tell is starting to pick up. They are expecting a good amount of folks to
turn out here. But right now, we just don't know exactly the number of protesters that are going to be out here and exactly how all of that is
going to unfold Julia?
CHATTERLEY: You're going to be there watching for us. Carlos, thank you so much for that report. Carlos Suarez there in Miami! Now to Ukraine; Russian
missiles hit civilian targets including a residential building in the City of Kryvyi killing at least 11 people and injuring more than 25 others.
The city as I mentioned earlier is President Zelenskyy's hometown. In the meantime, the Ukrainian military says it has gained more ground in the
Zaporizhzhia and Donetsk regions. Sam Kiley joins us now. Sam I believe a number of these missiles were intercepted obviously not all with tragic
consequences in Kryvyi.
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes Julia. I mean the Russians as we know now going back many months' fire very large volumes of
cruise missiles surface to surface ballistic missiles. And the Shahed Iranian made drones.
The latter, a lot of them intended to overwhelm the capabilities of the Ukrainian air defenses that air defenses that they continue to beg the
international community to augment and inevitably, some from time to time these missiles get through most graphically and tragically, in the latest
example of that 11 dead, at least in Kryvyi.
Two dozen reported at the beginning of the day injured as a result of a hit against a residential block in that central industrial city of Ukraine.
This is part of an ongoing campaign that we're all too familiar with, with the deliberately targeting of civilian infrastructure and civilians
themselves by the Russians.
But on the battlefield, it is the Ukrainians of the moment that have most of the initiative. They are continuing to advance south of the embattled
city of Bakhmut with some significant advances now being made in a salient of territory there several settlements being claimed by the Ukrainians has
ever been liberated.
And I think more significantly, perhaps a very substantial increase in the level of Ukrainian attacks on the Zaporizhzhia front line that is an East
West line running from Zaporizhzhia controlled by the Ukrainians through to Russian controlled Donetsk where the Ukrainians have been throwing more and
more troops and material at the fight there in a hope to try and break- through I think.
I think we're probably moving beyond the probing attacks that we've been seeing about a week ago or so or even a few days ago to something more
substantial coming from the Ukrainians as part of the early stages, I think of their much vaunted offensive, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Sam, great to have you thank you! Sam Kiley there! And British Police are investigating a series of attacks that have taken three lives
and left three others in hospital. Eyewitnesses in the City of Nottingham say the driver of a van intentionally drove into several pedestrians.
A 31-year-old man is being held on suspicion of murder. Nada Bashir is following events from London for us. Nada, what would we know about the
individual that's been arrested and a potential motive in this attack?
NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We'll look at is still very early stages Julia the investigation is ongoing. There is a heavy police presence across
Central Nottingham as you mentioned there three separate incidences those are three separate locations. So this is a large scale investigation.
They have described this as a major incident at this stage Nottinghamshire Police confirming that a 31-year-old man has been arrested. He is currently
in police custody but that is all we know about the suspect at this stage. And of course, the key focus for police and investigators will be trying to
ascertain the motive behind this attack. And it's important to underscore that we don't yet know what that motive is.
Look, what we do have the details around what has been a really shocking morning for those living in Nottingham. Two people found dead in the street
just after 4 am this morning and shortly after that police were called to a separate incident in which a van attempted to run over three individuals.
Now those three individuals have now been transferred to hospital and are receiving treatment but of course as we know, a further individual was
founded at a separate third location that is three killed overall and heard the eyewitness accounts around this shocking incident. Take a listen to one
person said earlier this morning in Nottingham.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LYNN HUGGART, EYEWITNESS: You don't choose -- a police car behind him. He then quickened up. There were two people turning the corner. He went
straight in to the two people. The woman went on the curb the man went up in the air -- the structure by which to -- I never saw it. It's really
shaken me up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASHIR: And that is of course how many people across Nottingham are feeling right now. There is still a heavy police presence. There's cordon lines
remain up as that investigation continues. We've seen forensic police now deployed to parts of the city as well. Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has
reacted to this latest incident.
He says he'd been updated on all the developments. He is shocked of course and has expressed his thanks to the emergency services responding to this
incident has asked the police be given time to carry out their work.
And at this stage Nottinghamshire Police haven't provided another update but are appealing to all those in the area who may have witnessed anything
suspicious or witnessed the scene to come forward to provide the police with information Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Nada, great to have you with us thank you. Nada Bashir there! OK, coming up here on "First Move" pause or push on Mohamed El-Erian on the
Federal Reserve's next rate move, and from interest rates to AI dates could a chatbot help you find the perfect match. The CEO of new dating app Teaser
AI will explain all later.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move"! In the last hour, we learned that U.S. consumer prices rose by 0.1 percent last month, and what up 4 percent
from a year ago that's actually sharply lower than April's 4.9 percent level.
An ongoing drop in energy prices helping cool things down but we did see food prices rising and a pickup in that once again. So what does this mean
for Federal Reserve policymakers who insist it's all about the data. They raise rates by a quarter point last month a 10th straight rate hike since
March of 2022.
Joining us now is Mohamed El-Erian, his Chief Economic Adviser at Allianz and Gramercy. He's also the President of Queens College, Cambridge
University. Mohamad, fantastic to have you on the show as always!
You wrote a fantastic article in the FT this week, looking ahead at what the Federal Reserve could, should, and probably will do? And your framing
of it was great. It was sort of a battle of the -- over the decisions that they have to make, and perhaps what they will end up doing is not the right
one. Let's start very simply, what should a data dependent Federal Reserve be doing this week?
MOHAMED EL-ERIAN, CHIEF ECONOMIC ADVISOR, ALLIANZ AND GRAMERCY: A data dependent central bank should be hiking interest rates this week, by a
quarter of a percentage points. While inflation is coming down, it is not coming down fast enough.
And core inflation, what measures the underlying facing the pressure is starting to stabilize at around 5 percent, which is way too high. So a data
dependent fed that simply responds to data and doesn't look forward strategically, should be hiking.
CHATTERLEY: The unfortunate thing is, and of course, they say they're data dependent, is that they've generally guided towards pausing this month, and
that's what the market expects too. And then perhaps leave it open the next month. Is that what you expect them to do?
EL-ERIAN: So it is what I expect them to do, because they guide it that way.
EL-ERIAN: And inflation has come in, as expected. So for them not to deliver on that guidance would cause significant market instability and
raise question about their guidance. The problem they have is that they're excessively data dependent.
You know, what a lot of people don't realize is that the tools that central bank have don't act immediately. They tend to act with a lag, the so called
long and variable lag. So when you are just responding to data, and not looking forward 12 to 18 months, the big risks you'll have is that you'll
be doing something that may make sense in the short term, but will be policy mistake over time.
CHATTERLEY: The problem is one more month of waiting and watching the data doesn't really give you that much more insight to your exact point about
how long the transition mechanism of a rate hike takes to feed into the real economy. And it also undermines the point that you're making at the
beginning about their reiterating the fact that they're data dependent, it just further chips away credibility. How important is that really, Mohamed?
EL-ERIAN: It is very important, because central banks need that credibility for two things, one for policy effectiveness, and the other for political
independence. They are the one politically independent policy maker in the ecosystem. And as such, they have enormous power but with that comes
responsibility and accountability. So that's why it's really important that they don't make a yet another policy mistake.
CHATTERLEY: You're sort of premise of the argument in the article that you wrote for "The Financial Times", and I think this is the critical piece is
that their inflation target the destination that we seem to be trying to get to no longer applies in the world of 2023 post pandemic supply chain
The costly energy transition that we're going through a shift in patterns of globalization and trade all over the world this is the point isn't it
where we're sort of aiming for something that doesn't really exist or apply in the world today?
EL-ERIAN: Yes, we aiming for something that if we get to it, we will tip the country into recession and will probably cause financial instability.
Why is the one inflation target, this inflation target, or we donated in New Zealand in the early 90s, it seemed to be sensible enough at the time,
and it was adopted by many different countries, which is the same as if all of us had the same target, even though we different.
And today, there is reason to expect that the white inflation target is not 2 percent but 3 percent. The problem, Julia, as you know, is that if
Central Banks have missed delivering the target, the last thing they want to do is then change the target. So they've a bit stuck.
And that's why they end up in the muddled middle, neither delivering what they need to do for 2 percent inflation, which is the wrong target in my
opinion, or moving to the right target, and making sure that we reduce inflation without sacrificing growth and without sacrificing financial
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and just so my viewers understand the problem with adjusting the target to what's probably the right target is that there's an
expectation from consumers, from businesses that the next time you don't hit your target, you're just going to move the target again. So you're
constantly moving the goalposts and to go back to the point about credibility, then you've really got a problem.
EL-ERIAN: Correct, and that's why you don't want to start late. That's the tragedy.
EL-ERIAN: The big mistake was made in 2021, when the Federal Reserve called inflation, transitory and held on to that view, despite conflicting data.
Transitory is a very dangerous word. If I tell you something is transitory, I'm telling you, it's temporary, it's reversible, and therefore, don't
change your behavior.
But then if it turns out to be non-transitory, which is the case, then you having to play catch up. And once you in the world of catch up, there are
no optimal policy response.
CHATTERLEY: Can I defend the Federal Reserve to a certain extent and say, look, we've been predicting now recession for, what, more than 12 months,
and it's the most anticipated recession that has not yet at least arrived, the labor market data has been incredibly resilient, and yet the economy so
far, and admittedly, we're saying there's a lag and astonishing amount of rate hikes in very close succession.
Could you also make the argument that while perhaps the inflation target doesn't apply in this world, the labor markets change, there's a stickiness
about people letting workers go, particularly in the post pandemic era that sort of gives them some leeway, and some flexibility perhaps, to do as
EL-ERIAN: Oh, absolutely. That's the argument I've been making. I've been pushing back consistently, as you know, against this notion that the U.S.
all fall into recession, there is no need for the U.S. to fall into recession. As you point out, the labor market is very solid.
Job vacancies are 1.8 times the unemployment level. So there is still scope in the labor market, to carry us through in more difficult environment. So
the Fed itself has been consistently wrong on unemployment, it has been predicting unemployment much higher than what has actually transpired.
So it has been too optimistic on inflation, and too pessimistic on unemployment. And I think that come tomorrow, when they release their
expectations, we're going to see some adjustments in that view.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, reframing which is what you've long been arguing for too. In this world, let's talk about what we see in stock markets today, because
there are those that look at the sort of 23 percent rise in the NASDAQ, the tech heavy sector, year to date, the 13 percent rise in the S&P 500 and
say, look, actually, this is very jarring with the economic backdrop.
What do you make of the message? I think that sort of bond markets are sending now that stock markets are sending tied too. What is likely to be
in your mind is reframing of the Federal Reserve's message on what they see?
EL-ERIAN: So just to confuse that even more, the bond markets have been sending a different signal from the stock markets.
EL-ERIAN: So on the surface, it seems inconsistent, but it's not. Because if you were to go inside the numbers in the stock market and you've done
that in the past, it is a handful of stocks that have done the heavy lifting, if you look at the S&P 500 until recently and that's good news
that is changing but until recently seven names accounted for all the gains.
And those are what I call all weather stocks. There are stocks that are either riding a massive multi-year wave think of artificial, or
alternatively they are stocks that are viewed to be insensitive to the economic cycle, think of Big Tech. And they have been doing all the heavy
lifting this year after having had a terrible time last year.
And what's good in the last couple of weeks is that the rally has broadened to include more names. And that's a very positive development.
CHATTERLEY: You've taken me on a completely different path now because you mentioned the AI, the artificial intelligence free so I have to ask you
about this now. There's clearly and we talk about it almost every day, I think on the show the debate in education in how best to handle this tool
or weapon, how do you feel?
Can I ask you at Queens College about how this should be perhaps utilized, handled for those perhaps that could utilize it to take exams or support
EL-ERIAN: So we are thinking through it, like every innovation, you get two reactions. The first reaction is you get a balance of excitement and
anxiety, excitement at what this technology allows. And generative AI allows a lot of customization in education, but also fear as to what it
You know, I'm old enough to remember when the programmable calculator came in; people didn't want us to stop using the slide rule. It sounds absurd
now, but there was somehow a fear that by using calculators, we would lose all ability to do arithmetic in our head.
The other reaction is that by reducing a barrier to entry, which AI does in a very powerful manner, people over produce it and over consume it. So
those two things are playing out today. It will take us time everybody in society to find the right equilibrium, but I'm generally excited.
I'm excited because AI is an equalizer more than it is a un-equalizer, it can provide a lot more opportunity for people, both the lower income groups
within the western economies, but especially those in developing countries, so I'm excited. But we need to get a few things right so that we don't over
produce it and over consume it and create havoc and bad things.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, harness the innovation but try and withhold or restrain the darker sides. I like the idea of the un-equalizer though. Mohamed it's
always great to chat to you. Thank you.
EL-ERIAN: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Mohamed El Erian, Chief Economic Adviser, thank you sir. And President of Queens College Cambridge University, thank you. OK, still to
come on "First Move" regulation aggravation. Microsoft and Activision is planned merger faces a new roadblock. We'll discuss more about the FTC's
latest move after this.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move" and I look at Wall Street this Tuesday all the major averages solidly higher in early trade as we've been
reporting U.S. inflation coming in pretty much as expected last month core inflation though still not easing fast enough for the Federal Reserve.
But the numbers should allow the Central Bank to hold rates steady at its policy meeting this week as Mohamed El Erian was saying they've guided that
way so really they've got no choice, the NASDAQ now up almost 30 percent so far this year and tech the outperformer once again today.
Software giant Oracle, rally after hitting the stock market sweet spot, a big earnings beat and the launch of a generative AI cloud service too,
Oracle's Larry Ellison now the world's fourth richest person overtaking Microsoft's Bill Gates according to Bloomberg. Tesla headed by the world's
richest person, Elon Musk is also revving up once again.
It's on track for its 13th straight winning session. Apple little changed after hitting fresh all-time highs on Monday. And perhaps some fresh fog
for Microsoft and its quest to buy Activision Blizzard for us regulator, the FTC has asked for a temporary restraining order to block the $69
The FTC challenged the deal late last year on competition concerns. I spoke to Microsoft's President Brad Smith a couple of weeks ago about the
outstanding regulatory approvals. And here's what he told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRAD SMITH, CEO OF MICROSOFT: Obviously, we have not yet succeeded in addressing the concern of every regulator. But look, at the end of the day,
you have to decide do you want to find a solution to every problem? Or do you want to find a problem with every solution? We are focused on finding a
solution to every problem because I believe solutions are there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: OK, Clare Duffy joins us now. This is an interesting one and you've got a timing mismatch, because I believe the deal is expected to
close a few weeks before the first hearing for the FTC on this. So the danger is you have to fight once a deal is done, which is far harder to
challenge and unwind if necessary.
CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: That's exactly right, Julia. The FTC wants to make sure that Microsoft doesn't go ahead and try to close this
deal before it has a chance to render an opinion on it. As you said in the open there, the FTC sued to block this deal in December.
It's concerned that this deal which would make Microsoft the third largest video game publisher in the world, could harm competition, could harm
consumers. And now the agencies that there is some fear that Microsoft could go ahead and try to close this deal or close parts of the deal,
before the agency is able to have this August hearing and render a decision.
Now Microsoft is also fighting, you know, issued an appeal in order in response to a British decision blocking this deal. But the EU last month
gave this deal the green light. And so the FTC wants to make sure that its hands are firmly on the wheel driving the steel forward or not.
The FTC has asked a court to place a temporary restraining order blocking the steel by Thursday. But as you'll see there, Brad Smith, Microsoft's
President has continued to sort of sound an optimistic tone on this deal. He told us yesterday that we believe that accelerating the legal process in
the U.S. will ultimately bring more choice and competition to the market.
And you know, so this is something that we'll really have to keep a close eye on this week and see if we do hear an answer from the court on this.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. What next? Is it just about sort of waiting and watching and see what comes from this because they've got approval now from I think
near 40 different nations that are saying, OK, we can do this to your point, including the EU. It's just the U.S. and the U.K., which are pretty
big nations in this regard, admittedly, but as the holdouts.
DUFFY: That's exactly it. Yes, you know, I think Microsoft perhaps really is looking forward to getting its chance in court this week to present some
of these concessions that it's made, you know, the EU found that these concessions, you know, things like allowing its video games to be published
on other platforms.
You know, it sounds like those were enough to make this deal move forward and so that Microsoft really might be looking forward to presenting some of
these in court and hoping that the court and ultimately the FTC finds that this is enough that this deal can move forward without harming consumers or
CHATTERLEY: Yes, that was certainly the message I got that we can convince them we just need to present the facts and the adjustments. We shall see.
Clare Duffy, thank you. To South Korea now celebrations of the 10th anniversary of one of its greatest exports and I'm not talking about
Wow, can you believe it the K-pop band BTS has been around for 10 years. And to mark the milestone landmarks in Seoul are being lit up in purple as
you can see the band's signature color for a whole week. Although BTS is on temporary hiatus right now, as you can see fans are most definitely not, as
Paula Hancocks reports.
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): This is the first the world saw of BTS no more dream released 10 years ago this week. Alongside the
backstage footage of seven young men who could sing and dance, but few could have imagined the global stardom that would follow for being the
first K-pop group to debut at number one on the Billboard album chart.
They securing the most weeks at the top spot of any artist beating out Taylor Swift with 46 weeks at number one. International fans have been
arriving in Seoul over recent weeks for 10th anniversary BTS tours, visiting anywhere the band has made famous.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Waiting for the smaller bands for years and now it's finally happening.
HANCOCKS (voice over): A group of fans from the United States are flying in from different States for their pilgrimage, a trip seven months in the
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to just, you know eat the food that they eat, and they must have really good taste and just be in places where they've
been, you know, music videos shooting, just to breathe the same air that they breathe.
HANCOCKS (voice over): Top of the tallest a bus stop on the east coast where the band shot itself and cover you never walk alone, a regular stop
for fans who refer to themselves as the army, as well as the band's old home that's turned into a cafe and this building where the band's agency
used to be.
We caught up with two fans in Seoul who traveled all the way from Scotland undergraduate students who consider this to be the first of many BTS
related trips to South Korea.
ROWAN JOSS, BTS FAN FROM SCOTLAND: It is emotional. You're happy, but it's very like, oh my God, this is real.
HANCOCKS (voice over): They attribute the band's longevity to the serious messages they portray in their lyrics, topics they can relate to.
JOSS: Their mental health talk is unique to them. Honestly, I know new bands are trying to do that, but BTS has done it in the way they haven't
HANCOCKS (voice over): Two of the seven members currently serving mandatory military service here in South Korea and the remainder to follow soon. The
group's record label big hit reportedly says they could reconvene by 2025. Every member has also had success with a solo career so far.
BANG SI-HYUK, CHAIRMAN OF HYBE: We've been prepared to turn this into a turning point in their career. It's obviously true that they needed this
time of rest after such an intense period of hard work.
HANCOCKS (voice over): BTS is marking its 10 years with a new single a new book and a festival by the river. Some fans are celebrating with a
pilgrimage of anything that idols visited or touched or even ate. Paula Hancocks, CNN, Seoul.
CHATTERLEY: I read that the celebrations are going to continue for two weeks and what a great boost for tourism I think to -- South Korea. And
coming up after the break is, true love just an AI driven avatar away, you decide. The CEO of dating app teaser AI makes his case next.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", now from hinge to happen. Online dating has become a booming industry generating nearly $5 billion in
revenue last year. Over 300 million people use dating apps worldwide, according to report by business of apps and in a crowded market led by the
likes of Tinder, Badoo and Bumble, one startups aiming for a tech driven edge over the competition.
Teaser AI is using artificial intelligence to overcome a major shortcoming in the dating game. The amount of time wasted in small talk that perhaps
goes nowhere in the early stages. Teaser as it learns about your habits and interests and potential matches can chat to your avatar, before moving on
to person to person conversations.
Prices start at $19.99 a week, we're going to discuss that Daniel Liss is the Co-founder and CEO of Teaser AI, and he joins us now. I love this, when
I read about it, so we're going to have some fun, in your own words, what's the problem really, that you're trying to fix?
DANIEL LISS, CO-FOUNDER & CEO OF TEASER AI: The problem we're trying to fix, I mean, on a macro scale is what the Surgeon General in the U.S. has
called the epidemic of loneliness, right? One in two Americans is reporting feeling lonely. And that rate actually doubles for young adults compared to
So a decade into dating apps, which the technology industry thought would solve a lot of issues that we found in dating. We have the average singles
on three of these apps and are not seeing results. So we're really starting from the big problem of trying to right the wrongs of what the dating
industry has created over the last, you know, 20 years or 10 years of mobile dating.
CHATTERLEY: This is really interesting. So what you're saying is lots of people use lots of these apps, but they never actually connect with
someone, or find someone that they're compatible with. So it's about the sort of efficiency of finding someone you're compatible with that you're
LISS: Right, I think in technology products, our first product was Dispo, which is a camera based social network. We actually went to the users,
you've got to talk to the users and solve real problems, you know, the old Field of Dreams, -- , to if you build it, they will come it doesn't work,
actually, you need to build things that people want.
And so our users kept on saying to us, I spend and we could see when they would show us their phone, you know, they're spending seven hours a day on
their phone, at least an hour a day on their constellation of dating apps. And maybe they got particularly the young women a lot of matches, but it
would be what we call this graveyard of ghosting.
You would spend this hour a day getting all the matches together. And then no one would ever say anything. And so you're left in this incredibly
frustrated experience where you're investing all this time and hope and energy to meet someone and that wasn't happening.
And so that was the problem really, that we decided to tackle. And of course, we're using generative AI this new technology as one of our efforts
to tackle that problem.
CHATTERLEY: When I moved to the United States, I was given a handbook by the people who transferred me over on what ghosting is, and I was totally
mystified. So some of that --
LISS: -- depending on us.
CHATTERLEY: Fine, I take that hit but I honestly had never heard about it before. OK, so the response that you're creating then is an avatar that
somebody can at least engage with. But there's no promise that even if you engage with someone's avatar that even if you like them and you get on them
that they won't still goes to the other side. I'm talking about the human not the AI; you might actually like the avatar more. Now that's a problem.
LISS: I dare to say but our second feature, which among the users is actually getting even a little more attention is a ghosting score. So if
you ghost people just like an Uber rating or a Karma score on Reddit, if you're a bad writer, or you're a bad participant in the Reddit community,
your ghosting score will go down on teaser AI.
And on top of that, in the actual architecture of the app, we reduce the number of matches that you can make or likes that you can have we call them
picks. So there are only 16 people that you can be engaging with, at any one time. Now to some of your viewers that may seem like a lot.
But for the average person on a dating app today, really their messages panel is probably hundreds of matches where a lot of nothing is going on.
And on top of that, I think the feature we're most excited about introducing next is what we're calling auto match.
So we have all this data on your swiping preferences, who likes you what your interests are keywords that you keep on bringing up in your
conversations, and we're going to auto match people all in the efforts of reducing the amount of time they're spending on the app, and getting them
on better dates faster.
CHATTERLEY: I'm basically still hung up on paying $19.99 a week to be insulted for ghosting. Let's talk about --
LISS: -- on a monthly basis.
CHATTERLEY: I know --
LISS: -- category and for apps that work people are willing to pay quite a bit of money for it.
CHATTERLEY: Yes -- .
LISS: We're not afraid to be for -- company.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, well, and to your point as well. There is an epidemic of loneliness out there. And if this is a more efficient way of helping you
find somebody, I think people are willing to pay more, quite frankly. OK, but talk to me about the large language model that you're using.
And I get the concept, but how accurate is the avatar that you're speaking to, because I've seen some rights of this? And it feels like a little work
in progress, which we know anyway, about generative AI too. Daniel, will this improve?
LISS: Sure, I'll probably surprise you with this answer, which is our intention was not to be the most accurate. The large language model is an
open source model that we're not currently naming, but it's running on AWS. And the intention is actually to, you know, for any model, if you back up a
step, you're training the model for an output.
Our output is creating that spark that will get someone to send a message. So I know this is cable, but and maybe you see it in the demos. But if you
look in the app, we give you a very clear warning that our AI may say some crazy stuff. And that is very much intentional, right?
The hilarity of an AI saying, Who knows going somewhere unexpected, but obviously, we train it to avoid sensitive or offensive conversations that,
you know, zest for conversation and for life is kind of in many ways, we're trying to make people even more interesting than they are in real life.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's interesting. I mean, --
LISS: How we're getting close to bar is training it based on your prior conversations in the app, and then your onboarding. So in the onboarding,
we're asking you about your personality, we're asking you to talk to our AI training device. We're really, you know, using best in class technology to
create something that feels like you but isn't exactly like you.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, the warning is to be specific, our AI might say some crazy shit I'm not going to say the word live on TV. But there is a very clear
warning when you start using this. In actual fact, does the AI matter less than what you're saying, actually, is a sort of sense of humor, a filtering
system where you can't engage, a warning to users that this person might end up ghosting, you perhaps stay away.
It's sort of a sophisticated way of perhaps allowing people to filter and not just be bombarded with lots of people and lots of noise and actually
not know where to go next or who to talk to.
LISS: Right. I think a lot of people when they first hear about this app think that we're trying to make people fall in love with Chatbots. And that
is absolutely not the case. I think you articulated beautifully --
CHATTERLEY: -- that might be a consequence -- .
LISS: I think that's definitely not this is and also, you know, from a trust and safety perspective, we've limited the number of messages you can
exchange with somebody's AI, to very few, I think it's five right now. So in reality, this is, as you put it, a way to date with more intention, a
way to sort through people a little more quickly, and hopefully get you out on real deeds in person much faster.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I like it. And I like your honesty. Awesome to have you on the show, come back soon, and we'll track progress and see how people are
doing. Great to chat to you, thank you, Daniel Liss Co-founder and CEO of Teaser AI. Thank you.
OK, coming up here on "First Move", global trade keeps on trucking. Thanks to the revolutions in electric and self-driving vehicles. We'll take you
behind the wheel of our digital driving and delivery future, next.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", call it the highway to a greener more productive future as Swedish tech companies working to deliver a new
generation of powerful trucks that are electric powered and self-driving, all that in today's global connections.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Andreas has about two hours before reaching the bridge between Norway and Sweden. Drives like these are often
perfect for some deep thinking.
ANDREAS ALLSTROM, DIRECTOR PUBLIC FUNDING AND RESEARCH COLLABORATIONS AT EINRIDE: Well, it's a beautiful road.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Well, most of the time.
ALLSTROM: Along the way to the border. It is we have plenty of time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): To be fair, Andreas probably isn't thinking about today's journey too much because he's focused on tomorrow.
Tech advancements have left no area of trade untouched. And Andreas hopes to help goods move more efficiently by removing cargo drivers from the
ALLSTROM: Here we're looking at the huge transformation of the freight transport industry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Andreas works in and ride a tech company specializing in self-driving and electric trucks. Dozens of startups are
experimenting with driverless trucks, but Einride is one of the few trying to make them electric at the same time.
TOMAS OHLSON, FOUNDING ENGINEER AND SVP OF AUTOMATED DRIVING SYSTEM AT EINRIDE: You can have cleaner freight, you can use less vehicles and move
things directly to where they need to go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): About 80 percent of all inland European freight moves by road. This dependence on trucks can lead to a few
problems, not just in terms of pollution, the people.
OHLSON: There is of course the driver shortage when you have few drivers. They work a lot of hours. They are away from the families for a long time.
It's really an unsustainable solution.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Einride obviously believes its electric driverless trucks are the answer. Today, five customers use them mainly on
private property, because getting them out in public is complicated. And that's where Andreas comes in. He's working on a project rollout driverless
trucks, not just on Swedish roads, but across the entire continent.
ALLSTROM: So the storyline of the project is to go from Rotterdam to Oslo.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Andreas an Einrider part of the moody project, an initiative that aims to reimagine logistics by automating them
partially funded by the European Union. This project brings together 36 public and private partners according to Einride, each responsible for
different pieces of the puzzle.
ALLSTROM: I think for me, collaboration is really what this is the key here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): The project just launched in late 2022. By the time it ends, Einride hopes its trucks will be the first to cross
the national border. This one to be exact, but to pull this feed off, the team first needs to study a variety of systems and this case how trucks
currently navigate customs.
ALLSTROM: We've now arrived at the waiting customs on the border between Sweden and Norway. When the trucks come in, they can either do a manual
inspection or manual customs clearance.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Although customs here do have a digital alternative in place. It's not too popular yet. But the moody project plans on making the
most of it to reach its goals. Which if achieved, could pave the way for cheaper greener weights deliver goods.
CHATTERLEY: And finally on "First Move", bringing back the Beatles thanks to yep, you probably guessed it, artificial intelligence. In an interview
with the BBCsir Paul McCartney said he's created "the final" Beatles record using AI to extricate the voice of John Lennon from an old recording.
He said the song which he hasn't yet named, will be released later this year. We're looking forward to that. And that's it for the show. If you've
missed any of our interviews, today, there'll be on my Twitter and Insta pages search for @jchatterleycnn. "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson
is up next. See you tomorrow.