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First Move with Julia Chatterley

China Responds to Biden "Dictator" Comment; Fed Chair: Inflation Fight has a Long Way to go; Conference on Rebuilding Ukraine Underway; U.S. Stocks Lower ahead of Powell Testimony; Underwater Noises Detected by Canadian Plane; Banging Sound Detected in Search for Submersible. Aired 9- 10a ET

Aired June 21, 2023 - 09:00   ET




RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN HOST: A warm welcome to "First Move". I'm Rahel Solomon in today for Julia Chatterley. And just ahead on today's show, rescuers

here banging sounds that may be coming from the missing Titanic Submersible, raising hope now that the five people on board could still be

found alive. And they may have just one day's worth of oxygen left the very latest on the desperate search in the Atlantic coming up.

Plus, rebuilding Ukraine a Summit underway in London plotting post war reconstruction U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken announcing more than

a billion dollars of additional U.S. assistance. We'll take you there.

And Powell pronouncements the U.S. Fed Chair is set to brief Congress on the state of the American economy next hour. Powell was saying in his

prepared statement that getting inflation down to the 2 percent target still has a long way to go.

And as traders await Powell's testimony U.S. Futures are lower across the board red arrows across the board there U.S. stocks lost ground Tuesday as

well, with the S&P down half a percent. And as we can see Europe is also softer new numbers show UK prices rising 8.7 percent year-over-year in May.

That's unchanged from April but firmly above expectations the numbers now giving the Bank of England new ammunition to raise rates again at its

policy meeting tomorrow and a rough session for Chinese Stocks the SHANGHAI COMPOSITE and the HANG SENG down both more than 1.5 percent around 1.5


A lot of news to get through today but let's begin with a life or death rescue mission in the Atlantic; the search really ramping up this hour with

more vessels headed to the area after those banging sounds were heard. That's according to a U.S. government memo.

And the U.S. Coast Guard says that a Canadian military plane also picked up underwater noises in the search area, the submersible with five people on

board but missing on Sunday while exploring the wreck of the Titanic. CNN's Paula Newton has the latest.


PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A sound of hope in the search and rescue of the missing submersible with five people on board according

to an internal U.S. government memo, sonar picked up banging sounds underneath the water Tuesday at 30 minute intervals.

TIM TAYLOR, PRESIDENT AND CEO, TRIBURON SUBSEA: Regular 30 minute intervals are a man-made thing. It's not a natural occurrence. It doesn't happen like

that in nature. It is a good sign of hope.

NEWTON (voice over): The memo was not clear as to when the banging was heard on Tuesday, or how long it lasted.

TAYLOR: So you can triangulate on noise. Again, it's only happening every 30 minutes. They only have a data update every 30 minutes, so if it was

happening every minute, it'd be a lot easier and lot faster.

NEWTON (voice over): However, time continues to be a critical factor as the vessel's oxygen supply dwindles.

JAMES FREDRICK, U.S. COAST GUARD: We will do everything in our power to effect a rescue.

NEWTON (voice over): So far, the U.S. Coast Guard says it has searched an area about the size of Connecticut.

FREDERICK: Getting salvage equipment on scene is a top priority.

NEWTON (voice over): The U.S. Navy is sending a flyaway deep ocean salvage system similar to the one pictured here for retrieving heavy underwater

items like the small submersible. Onboard OceanGate CEO and Founder Stockton Rush British Adventurer and Businessman Hamish Harding one of

Pakistan's richest men, British businessman Shahzada Dawood, and his 19 year-old-son Sulaiman Dawood and the vessel's pilot French Submariner and

Ex-Navy Officer Paul-Henri Nargeolet.

DAVID GALLO, SENIOR ADVISOR, RMS TITANIC: I was in a bind with anybody, it would be Paul-Henri Nargeolet, he would do everything he can and without

panic, to work his way out of that situation.

NEWTON (voice over): As the ongoing search and rescue continues we're learning of concerns in 2018 regarding the planned expedition of the

submersible to that Titanic wreckage site, in the letter obtained by "The New York Times" and addressed to the OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush, the man

underwater vehicles committee of the marine technology society raised these concerns.

Our apprehension is that the current experimental approach adopted by OceanGate could result in the negative outcomes from minor to catastrophic

that would have serious consequences for everyone in the industry.


SOLOMON: And Paula joins us now with more. Paula, as we said, more vessels heading to the area. So where do things stand now? What's the latest with a


NEWTON: What's so interesting here is that in prepositioning so many of these assets now headed again to the scene now that we have confirmation

that those banging noises were heard.


They are given some very good pinpoint locations in order to continue to put perhaps remote vehicles closer to the seabed in order to get an idea of

what's going on there. The U.S. Coast Guard which is lead in all of this has said that a Canadian ship "The John Cabot" is now on -- will arrive on

the scene later today with what they're calling side scanning sonar.

What is that? It just means it's more sophisticated device to actually look and hear for those noises again in the seabed. And by mapping exactly where

those sounds are coming from, they're able to see if a submergible is there.

Having said that, as you can imagine Rahel there are even more resources rushing to the scene as we've indicated before we have about a day left of

oxygen and even if they do manage with all this sophisticated equipment, and expertise to locate that submergible it will be very difficult to

continue to try and bring it to the surface before the oxygen runs out.

But I mean, look, this is hopeful, Rahel, but also a bit chilling to think that they -- those five passengers may have been on that Titan submergible

and banging as loud as they can, at specific intervals knowing that that's what the experts would be like looking for because they would know that

that was not natural to what was going on in the ocean Rahel.

SOLOMON: So difficult to think about what they're going through. Paula Newton, thank you live for us there in Ottawa. And turning now to Ukraine,

Ukraine says that its top priority is to exhaust Russian forces before the main strike of the counter offensive, which is said to still be ahead.

They're doing that by targeting Russian artillery and armed systems.

Officials in Kyiv say that Moscow is hemorrhaging military resources on the front lines. But Russia claims that they will stop Ukraine's advances. Now

as Ukraine prepares for even tougher battles ahead its allies are already looking toward reconstruction.

And the Ukraine Recovery Conference is underway in London as we speak. And that's where we find CNN's Nic Robertson. Nic, you know, Zelenskyy not

exactly known to be shy about asking for what they need, which include more aid. I do believe he spoke virtually, what are some of the big takeaways so

far on day one?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: You know, I think the big takeaways are that there's a focus on making sure that if

businesses invest in Ukraine that they know that their money is going to be safe. And that means reforms in Ukraine's government institutions to get

away from corruption.

There was praise for President Zelenskyy in some of the reforms that have happened. And President Zelenskyy himself spoke about the reasons to

invest. He spoke about Ukraine being responsible for agricultural products reaching more than 600 million people around the world.

But Ukraine had a future as a green energy provider, not just for itself, but for other countries in Europe as well. So he painted a picture of the

Ukraine that was worth investing in, but one that they would be that private investors would be able to invest in, because it's one that's

getting rid of corruption.

And he talked about how that's being done with new digital tools for customs controls. And that was something echoed by Secretary of State --

U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, who said the U.S., is providing $100 million, some of which that particular pot of funding would go

specifically into that digitization of the customs process to avoid corruption.

I think perhaps the other big takeaways were the number of businessmen that showed up and the support we heard from Richard Branson, the virgin boss

spoke to the combined people attending the conference, more than 400 different businessmen according the British government had pledged to

support this rebuilding Ukraine effort.

And perhaps the key to achieving that was outlined but not the details of - - it was outlined by the British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, who said, there will be a war insurance framework, an insurance framework that will

give businesses perhaps a better, you know, a better sense that their money invested in Ukraine while the war still going on.

That money all won't be lost. Of course, that's the sort of thing that business looks at, they want certainty. They don't want an ongoing war. So

perhaps these insurance frameworks that the Prime Minister was talking about can help with that.

SOLOMON: Right, exactly. And if the idea being to try to instill some competence in investors that if in fact they deploy their money, it will be

safe from certain risk. Nic Robertson live for us there in London thank you.

And later in the show, we're actually going to hear from the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development on its strategy for rebuilding Ukraine.

That's in about 10 minutes from now. Meantime, China responding to U.S. President Joe Biden's comments describing President Xi Jinping as a

dictator one day after Secretary of State Antony Blinken's trip to Beijing to try to repair relations with China.


Well, Mr. Biden made the unscripted comment during a fundraiser Tuesday night saying the reason why Xi Jinping got very upset in terms of when I

shot that balloon down with two boxcars full of spy equipment in it is he didn't know it was there. No, I'm serious. That's what a great

embarrassment for dictators when they didn't know what happened. Well, China fired back calling the remarks absurd and irresponsible.


MAO NING, CHINESE FOREIGN MINISTRY: The remarks seriously contradict basic facts seriously violate diplomatic etiquette, and seriously infringe on

China's political dignity, which is an open political provocation.


SOLOMON: CNN's Arlette Saenz joins me now. Arlette if the White House is trying to improve relations with China, I'm not exactly sure how this

helps. What more do we know about these comments?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Rahel, so far the White House has not offered any further clarification or walk back or comments relating

to what President Biden said last night regarding Chinese President Xi Jinping.

But it does raise the question of whether this is going to impact or potentially up end those efforts to ease tensions between the two

countries. Now, the President's comments were similar in some respects to something he had said just on Saturday when he said that the Chinese spy

balloon incident was embarrassing for China's leadership.

But he went one step further in those fundraisers as he specifically likened Chinese President Xi Jinping to dictators. Now the President often

in these types of venues, these off camera fundraisers does tend to speak a bit more candidly and freely, including weighing in on Foreign Affairs.

And that's something that we simply saw play out last night, as he spoke at that California fundraiser. And as you mentioned, this has already prompted

a fierce response from the Chinese who have accused the President of engaging in open political provocation.

Now, this all follows a recent visit by Secretary of State Antony Blinken to China to try to ease some of the rising tensions between the two

countries following that Chinese spy balloon incident following these close military calls that have been seen between the U.S. and China.

Officials after that meeting, I had noted that they were constructive. The discussions did lead to some progress in that diplomatic relations. The

question now is how this might impact that relationship going forward. The President himself had predicted that there would be a thought very soon

between the U.S. and China regarding their relations, but this simply throws another wrinkle another wrench into an already tense relationship.

SOLOMON: And Arlette switching gears a bit we know that President Biden also due to meet with the Indian Prime Minister Modi soon the visit

including a covenant state dinner. What else is on the agenda?

SAENZ: Yes, President Biden will actually welcome Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi here to the White House tonight for a private dinner before

those state visit festivities kick off tomorrow. Now, a part of the reason that the President has been trying to bolster this relationship with India

is to serve as a counter to China as they have this growing influence in the region.

We're told to expect deliverables when it comes to the defense cooperation as well as technology space. But this visit is also playing out as there

are very serious human rights concerns. About Modi's time in office in India, the White House has faced some criticism from human rights groups

for the decision to host him with a state visit with a lavish a state dinner.

But simply put, the White House has called this one of the defining relationships of the 21st century and they are hoping that with this visit,

they will further deepen their cooperation with India even as there are concerns about human rights and democracy in that country.

SOLOMON: Arlette Saenz very well laid out there thank you. Andrew Tate will be back in court on Friday, the self-proclaimed misogynist and online

influencer and his brother Tristan appeared in a Romanian courtroom earlier Wednesday morning.

The pair along with two Romanian women have been charged with human trafficking, rape and setting up a criminal gang. Here's what Andrew Tate

said to reporters on his way into court.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you like to say something?

ANDREW TATE, INFLUENCER: I believe in God and I believe in justice system.


SOLOMON: Salma Abdelaziz joins me live from London. Salma, Tate has significant reach online, especially with young people. What more do we

know about these allegations here?

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So yesterday, Romanian prosecutors announced that he Andrew Tate and his brother Tristan Kate were indicted on

charges of human trafficking charges of rape and charges of forming criminal organization extremely serious allegations.


But I want to play you that video just one more time of them strolling strutting into the courthouse today his brother's smoking a cigarette. I

mean, you think they're walking into a club, not a courthouse. And that's exactly the point. They've carefully curated this image of bravado, and it

continues to attract attention online. He thanked his followers after stepping out of the courthouse, take a listen.


TATE: I would like to say a massive thank you, to all the supporters we have around the world regardless of what the mainstream media keeps saying

and the lies they try and report we get tens of thousands of messages from people every single day supporting us and they understand that we're not

the first affluent wealthy men who have been unfairly attacked.


ABDELAZIZ: Now the indictment against him is about charges that date back to 2021 events rather than take place in 2021. He is accused of exploiting

women of manipulating women seven victims in total. Andrew Tate also specifically accused of raping one of those victims.

There are other cases down the pipeline one here in the UK a civil case as well more is being investigated as well in Romania. But despite the

seriousness again, of these allegations, it seems his social media account is flourishing. It was reinstated.

His Twitter account rather was reinstated last year and has since garnered more followers. I took a look at it this morning. He had tweeted dozens of

times since the prosecutors in Romania announced this indictment.

One of his videos had taken 4 million views and that's the fear here. That's the concern here for parents for critics for those worried about the

influence of Andrew Tate is even as he faces this legal firestorm, he continues to push and push his controversy push his views online.

SOLOMON: Well, there is the court of public opinion and social media and then there will be a legal court preceding which we will see what happens

there. Salma Abdelaziz live in London for us. Thank you Salma!

Well straight ahead, double the height of the Grand Canyon. Imagine that double the height of the Grand Canyon that is how deep underwater the

missing submersible may be. We will hear from the very first British diver to see the wreck of the Titanic coming up. Plus the massive logistical

challenge of rebuilding Ukraine, the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development tells us how that might be achieved when we come back.



SOLOMON: Welcome back to "First Move", Jerome Powell will making his first move to Capitol Hill this week, see what we did there. U.S. Federal Reserve

Chair beginning two days of testimony before Congress in the next hour, Powell -- in his prepared statement that the U.S. Central Bank will not

waver in its inflation fight.

CNN's Chief Business Correspondent Christine Romans joining us now. Christine, of course, as you know, the Fed pause at this last meeting but

also hinted that more rate hikes could be coming. How much scrutiny do you think that receives over the next two days from lawmakers?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: You know, I think that the Q&A, the question and answer session of this testimony is going to be

critical here. Because if the Fed is saying that, you know, inflation is still too high, and there's still more work to be done, and rates will need

to keep rising.

Then why did they pause last week and the Fed Chief is going to say we've seen his testimony. He's going to say, frankly, that they want to pause to

assess the leg times that remember, it can take a year, but it's uncertain exactly how long the leg will be for some of this hiking to get into the


And also, they want to look at the headwinds from the credit tightening that would be the banking sector, right? So he's saying the banking sector

is still resilient and strong, but that they took the appropriate actions to prop it up left in March, actually, when those three banks failed.

So a lot here to go through, but I think there are two quotes that I think that are really important here. First, nearly all FOMC participants expect

that it will be appropriate to raise interest rates somewhat further by the end of the year. So more rate hikes are coming. And the reason the number

one reason inflation pressures continue to run high.

He says he will tell Congress, and the process of getting inflation back down to 2 percent has a long way to go. So that's I think, the inner Hawk

of Jerome Powell shining through in his testimony here. You know, Democrats are going to probably be concerned and raised concerns about going

overdoing it here and specifically hurting the job market.

And I think you'll probably hear from Republicans about the banking sector. So there's a lot to parse and to question the Fed Chief about when he

begins this testimony in just over half an hour.

SOLOMON: Yes, that's a great point. Also, you know, threading the needle, because Christine as, you know, one of the big concerns, of course, is that

all of these rate hikes 5 percent, in total, would cause a recession kick people out of work. But broadly speaking, that hasn't happened, right?

I mean, the last jobs report, we added 339,000 jobs, consumer spending has picked back up, we've even seen it pick back up in housing. I mean, this is

good news for Main Street, but maybe not so much for the Fed. So when Powell was talking to lawmakers, how we understand that the needle that he

really has to thread here?

ROMANS: Yes, especially because Democrats will criticize him in the Fed for trying to engineer weakness in the labor market to achieve those inflation

goals. And that's something that Democrats have really been strong on here. You know, he goes length here about the labor market remaining very tight.

And he says that, you know, job gains this year have averaged 314,000 jobs per month. That's just remarkable. In normal times, that would be

gangbuster, a job growth. And he says labor demand is still far outpaces labor supply. But he is pointing out that some of those wage pressures are

starting to come off.

And the job market may be slowly cooling a little bit here. But I think the job part of the picture is very, very interesting and politically, could

see some questions from Democrats who are going to ask him, you know, why do you want it? Why do you want to soften the labor market to achieve your

inflation goals?

SOLOMON: It can be very counterintuitive. Christine Romans great to have your insight, thank you, nice to see you, likewise. All right, coming up

for us, we're turning to Ukraine. And even as the war with Russia is being fought of course, there is much discussion about rebuilding the country

post conflict.

The World Bank estimates that reconstruction over 10 years could cost $411 billion. European Bank for Reconstruction and Development or EBRD, as it's

known as Ukraine's largest institutional investor. And it's looking to use its funding in the following areas, trade, in terms of imports of fuel and

exports of food, energy and food security, infrastructure and also bolstering the private sector.

Remember, we talked about this a bit earlier with Nic Robertson? Right now, EBRD Chiefs are joining world leaders and diplomats in London to talk

reconstruction. We're seeing here U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, who addressed the conference earlier, take a listen.


ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: As Russia continues to destroy, we are here to help Ukraine rebuild. Rebuild lives, rebuild its country, and

rebuild its future.


SOLOMON: Matteo Patrone is the EBRD's, Managing Director for Eastern Europe and the Caucasus. Matteo welcome to the program, great to have you. So in

terms of reconstruction after the war, what's the biggest challenge to that goal?

MATTEO PATRONE, MANAGING DIRECTOR OF EASTERN EUROPE AND THE CAUCASUS, EBRD: I think first of all, reconstruction starts now doesn't start after the



There are a number of companies in the private sector, a number of companies in the public sector. They need to re-establish their presence in

the market and their facilities, their production facilities. The economy of Ukraine has not stopped because of the war.

There's been a contraction of GDP, including because of occupied territories, but companies continue working. And therefore, they continue

to have the facilities to do that and if we look at the experience of the EBRD, over 2022 and 2023. We see a shift from provision of liquidity for

working capital and operational expenditures to a provision of finance for investments.

Emergency repairs in the areas of energy, for instance, we have been working with the Coronado since the end of the year, last year in order to

re-establish the transmission system operations in the power, but also in the private sector and the challenges are, of course, the war that is still


But also the need to continuous improvement of the business environment in the country and the authorities are very much aware of that and working

towards that goal.

SOLOMON: And to that end, we talked with our reporter a bit earlier in the program about Rishi Sunak's announcement about the risk insurance

framework, essentially. How important are measures and policies like that, in terms of incentivizing private investment?

PATRONE: I think they are important in terms of facilitating private investments in the country, and private trade by the way in the country as

well. We are working on a pilot program in kick start, and again, the insurance market for transport, of course in the country.

But they are not I think what is needed, although they are not sufficient conditions to attract investors in the country. For that you need a

business environment that is up and fit for purpose. And again, as I said, I think we are all working in that direction, the Ukrainian authorities,

international partners and indeed also the civil society in the country.

SOLOMON: Turning back to last year's conference, the seven principles that were established, can you tell us one maybe outlined some of those

principles, but where we've already started to see some progress in Ukraine, and what areas remain the biggest challenges?

PATRONE: I think there are areas where we certainly have seen progress. One of them is for instance corporate governance, in particular in the public

sector. Public sector is permeating the economy of Ukraine. And if you think about the fact that more than 50 percent of the banking assets are in

the hands of state owned banks.

You realize how important is the public sector, and we have seen some significant improvement in terms of corporate governance in that area. New

supervisory boards have been elected in the state on banks. A new supervisory board has been instated in natural gas, the gas company and the

Ukrainian authorities are working on a draft law for improved the improvement of the corporate governance setup.

SOLOMON: In terms of financing these efforts, as we said the World Bank putting a price tag of about $400 billion over a decade. And that is likely

to increase the longer you know this unfortunate war drags on. I mean, walk me through how best to finance all these efforts?

PATRONE: I think it's going to be a mix of official sector and private sector and this is the reason why the entire agenda of the conference here

in London is about facilitating and incentivizing private sector investment in the country. And my estimate is that the official sector will still be

absolutely essential in the next three, four years.

But gradually, I think the private sector at some point will take over the leadership of the investment flow in the country.

SOLOMON: And then Matteo, we don't have much time left. But lastly, day one of your two day conference, what are some of the main takeaways you think

coming out of this conference?

PATRONE: I think the main takeaways is really a cohesive approach by the international partners of Ukraine in supporting the economy here and now

and prepare it for the reconstruction phase.

SOLOMON: Matteo Patrone thanks for being on the program today.

PATRONE: Thanks for having me.

SOLOMON: Coming up on "First Move", a possible sign of life, the latest on the search for the missing submersible, right after this break.



SOLOMON: Welcome back to "First Move", U.S. stocks up and running this Wednesday. The first trading day of summer the bulls hoping for a bit of

sunshine as the summer solstice rolls on. But for now red arrow so far had a Fed Chair Powell's testimony before Congress next hour.

Powell saying in his prepared statement, that the fight against inflation "has a long way to go". He says virtually all Fed policymakers see more

rate hikes ahead. And from the Fed to FedEx St. Luke's shares are off about 1.5 percent, the package delivery giant lower in early trading.

It's reporting weaker than expected revenues. It's also out with disappointing forward guidance. Back to our top story this morning and

intense search continues in the Atlantic for that missing Titanic towards submersible. This new video shows another rescue vessel heading out to join

the search operation earlier today.

Banging sounds were detected by sonar devices during the search on Tuesday according to a U.S. government memo, and the Canadian Military plane also

picked up underwater noises in the area. CNN's Miguel Marquez joins us now from St. John's, Canada. Miguel, this is a multinational search where every

hour matters. What's the latest on the scene there?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you could really feel the sense of just the urgency of the situation at this point. A Canadian Coast

Guard ship left here a short time ago there was a very big private ship the horizon Arctic that left overnight. It takes about 12 hours or so to get

out to the location where this search is happening.

There were three U.S. Military planes C 17 that landed here in St. John's a lot of that gear went on to the horizon Arctic. All of this quickening the

pace quickening because of those sounds picked up there was a Poseidon aircraft that picked up sounds initially. Every half hour they heard what

sounded like banging.

They put more sonar beacons with another aircraft in some hours later they heard more sound. Eventually they stopped hearing banging but they heard

something they move surface ships.


They put remote vehicles operated vehicles in to the water to see if they could locate the source of that sound and they came up with nothing so far.

So now they have three Coast Guard ships, Canadian Coast Guard ships that are trying to basically map the bottom of the ocean and try to figure out

if they can see that submersible down there.

So that they can hopefully find anybody that is still alive, but the talking to people here in St. John's just the thought of what they may be

going through if they are alive, the darkness, the cold, and the fear of running out of oxygen, just a horrific feeling everywhere and everyone

hoping for the best, Rahel.

SOLOMON: Absolutely, Miguel, is it clear? If those sounds have been able to help rescuers triangulate where these people may be has the search area

narrowed at all.

MARQUEZ: This is what they're trying to do. They moved surface ships to try to get a better sense of closer to where those sounds are emanating.

They've sent those sonar signals as well to Navy experts to try to figure out if they can decipher anything from them. It is still not clear those

sounds were coming from the submersible.

But they are trying everything they can they have a ton of gear out there. Everything from deep water submersibles to mobile decompression chambers in

case of victims may need that if they if they rise up from the bottom too quickly. Everything that they can think of they are putting in position in

the hopes that they can find the vehicle and then extract those individuals that are in it, Rahel.

SOLOMON: Miguel Marquez, live for us there. Thank you, Miguel. And for more on this now Dik Barton joins me now. He is a Former Director of Operations

at RMS Titanic and the first British diver to see the Titanic wreckage. Dik, welcome to the program, let me ask you, when you hear our reporter in

our Correspondents say that they heard banging at 30 minute intervals, then they heard some sound, and then nothing. What does that mean to you?

DIK BARTON, FORMER DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS AT RMS TITANIC INC.: Yes, hi Rahel, it's obviously encouraging, we have to be optimistic, we have to be

upbeat, and everything else must really just be focused on the on the actual rescue event. Buying of course is a submarine his way of

communicating literacy. It was done by the USS Arizona, in Pearl Harbor and on the Russian submarines on the Kursk.

So, noise travels well through water. I think the only word of caution really, apart from the fact that sick stopped is that they're the oceans

are busy places a lot of activity down that part of a mammal and marine life. There's also been a cabling and vessel activity. So we need to be

quite cautious on what we're interpreting here.

SOLOMON: And from your point of view, I mean, of course, you have much more experienced than most I mean, how dire, how critical is the search now, at

this point days after they went down there?

BARTON: Well, you got two aspects have you got power and you got life support systems or air and unfortunately, both will be running down. Even

with contingency planning and also with some control to reduce your activity and be as calm as possible. The cold is will be absolutely

critical and the condensation which is accumulating by breathing in that contain titanium vessel.

SOLOMON: Dik, it's been said that the mission is quite dangerous even when all things go according to plan you have made the trip as I understand it

22 times. What are conditions like down there?

BARTON: Yes, it's a dangerous place to go. Its 2.5 miles, 3840 meters direct down. You lose light of 1000 meters and the bottom pressure is six

and a half thousand pounds per square inch at the sight of the Titanic. Last the equivalent of two adult elephants balancing your thumbnail to put

it into context.

Risk is high you have to have an appetite for risk. And to be frank once that cupola that top hatch is closed, then you're down to your own wits,

expertise, competence and the integrity of the vessel.

SOLOMON: You have a personal connection to the five on board as I understand it, you know, a personally PH Nargeolet who is said to be on

board. What can you tell us about him?

BARTON: PH is a dyed in the wool extraordinary experienced Submariner, Oceanographer and Researcher pilot into the wreck site for the seven times.

He's worked with OceanGate extensively, is extremely competent. And I think really, if god forbid, wherever in the Pacific this again, then PH will be

the man I'd have by my side for sure. You can have tremendous influence and a great friend and a mentor to me over time.

SOLOMON: Well, thank you for sharing that. And so how would you categorize?


How hopeful you are right now? On that PH and the others on board will ultimately be brought back safely?

BARTON: Yes, well as your Correspondents from St John's said and we know the area, you know, St. John's very well launched there many times. Every

effort, every stop has been pulled out. Most professionals the Navy, the Coast Guard system and other support agencies, so we have to keep that hope


We rescued the young Thai boys from the underground connection system. They had them and life was expected and we can only hope that's going to be the

outcome here.

SOLOMON: And then finally, Dik, because you're one of the few who have actually made this trek, as you pointed out, it's dangerous, but what is

the attraction? What's the lore? What brought you back so many times?

BARTON: Yes, Titanic is a myth, isn't it? It's a part of our lifestyle. It's been made romantic. It's been glorified. It's documented through

movies and just general exposure. I think it's just becomes a token obsession, if you're fascinated by these things. If you have the

wherewithal to dive and facilities made available, they will do so.

At the end of the day, if they say put a travelator to the top of Everest, they'll be people do that as well, isn't that?

SOLOMON: Yes, absolutely, Dik Barton, wonderful to have your insight today. We're certainly thinking about PH Nargeolet and all of those on board as

the search now continues. Thank you for the time. He was the Former Director of Operations at RMS Titanic. Thank you.

BARTON: Thank you --

SOLOMON: And that is it for the show. I'm Rahel Solomon. Pleasure to be with you, today, thanks for watching. "Marketplace Europe" is coming up





ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER (on camera): Ready, get set go. I'm Anna Stewart this month in Istanbul as airline bosses gear up for the summer surge. I'll

be speaking to some of the continent's biggest carriers and asked whether they're ready for this vital vacation season. Plus we will be heading to

greener pastures, how sustainable tourism has changed the way you travel, all that coming up here on "Marketplace Europe".

STEWART (voice over): It's one of the biggest gateways between Europe and the east, Istanbul with his international carriers and a newly built

airport. It's positioning itself as a hub for aviation. So at this crucial moment for the airline industry, that's where I've landed for a health

check on the world of travel.

The summer season in Europe is just around the corner, with airlines hoping to avoid the same bumps they experienced last year. And this is the place

to do it, the Annual General Meeting for IATA, the International Air Transport Association. It represents hundreds of airlines around the world

and is predicting stronger profits for Europe's carriers this year.

STEWART (on camera): The European market made up nearly a third of global air traffic in April according to new numbers from IATA. It says people are

eager to travel and airlines are ready to fly. The question is whether the whole aviation system is really up to the task.

STEWART (voice over): Last summer, a combination of strikes and staffing shortages meant passengers were met with queues and cancellations at many

airports, including London Heathrow and Schiphol in Amsterdam. It made for a punishing start to post pandemic travel.

KLM's Chief Executive had barely started as Head of the Dutch flag carrier when these setbacks at Schiphol began. Now she says the airline is ready to

deliver once more.

MARJAN RINTEL, CEO OF KLM: We really wanted to be back in business again and serve our customers the way the way they are used to. We have already a

test period last May holiday and it went great people had to wait in line for 15 minutes, 20 minutes. So we are back to the way we performed before

and the offer the customers are very nice and relaxed hopefully trip.

STEWART (on camera): Hopefully?


STEWART (on camera): Will you see traffic back to pre-pandemic levels this summer?

RINTEL: Well, customers came back so quick that everybody was really surprised last year. And today's summer is still promising. So customers

are coming back. They booked their holidays corporates are flying. So we're quite positive.

STEWART (voice over): For the best view of that industry optimism, you may have to move to the front of the cabin. Premium class travel is recovering

faster than in other parts of the plane. And that's not just down to business travelers. Leisure customers are increasingly prepared to splash


With Air France, KLM saying they have an unwavering willingness to travel. Other airlines are noticing too, Finnair launched a brand new business

class cabin last year. Its Chief Executive Topi Manner has spotted higher demand, just in time for the company's centenary this year.

TOPI MANNER, CEO OF FINNAIR: It's a big year for us. We are the sixth oldest airline in the world. So we are very proud of that.

STEWART (on camera): You do look a day over 100, I can tell you that.

MANNER: Thank you for that.

STEWART (on camera): Are you seeing a bigger demand in luxury travel? And I'm curious to know, is it from the business traveler? Or is it from the

leisure traveler?

MANNER: Yes, we are seeing that customers are basically willing to, you know pay more for additional premium level customer experience. And that

means that we have been seeing increasing demand for the business class as well as for the premium economy. Partially it comes from the business


Yes. But I think that the sort of new demand if we can somehow single that out that comes from premium oriented leisure travel.

STEWART (on camera): Do you think that's surprising given where we're at in Europe, in the U.S. with high inflation and a cost of living crisis, that

more people are willing to spend more on a flight?

MANNER: Well, to me, it basically tells the story that customers found out during the pandemic that what makes life living for.


And I guess the answer is that experience and other people. So, customers want to experience the world. They want to experience the wonders of

travel. And they want to, you know, have that premium experience when they fly and when they travel.

STEWART (on camera): Coming up, how is it cute globe-trotting in a net zero world. But first, let's catch you up on the business agenda across the

continent in your marketplace minute.

STEWART (voice over): Germany's Finance Minister will be a keynote speaker. As the hub Berlin event gets underway on June the 28th. The CEO of Deutsche

Telekom will also be among the top speakers, as executives and startups gather for the tech festival in the German capital. Also heading to

Germany, Emmanuel Macron the French President will arrive for a 3 day state visit on July the second.

The two countries have had their differences over energy policy in recent months. It will be the first time a French President has made a state visit

to Germany in more than 20 years. And on July the 11th, Lithuania hosts a NATO summit is the first such summit of the year and the first since

Finland officially joined NATO back in April.

With Russia's war in Ukraine continuing the Alliance's Secretary General says it will be a chance to review significant increases in defense

spending and that's your marketplace minutes.




STEWART (on camera): Sustainability has been one of the top items on the agenda here at the IATA summit. As airlines race to meet the 2050 net zero

deadlines. But it's not just aviation the whole travel industry may need to make some changes, including the customer. Clare Sebastian has more.

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): It's been the mantra of Europe's tourism sector since the height of COVID-19 getting back to

normal. Now that European travel is inching back to pre-pandemic levels one tourism charity is posing an uncomfortable question.

What if normal simply isn't sustainable for the environment? Here in Bristol in southwest England, the Travel Foundation is warning that

business is usual, will not be an option in a net zero world. Either we change the way we travel, we may have to travel less.

BEN LYNAM, HEAD OF STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS OF TRAVEL FOUNDATION: There's a kind of a need for tourism to grow, it has this inbuilt need within it to

grow. And we can see that's just incompatible with where we need to be from a climate perspective and from an admissions perspective.

SEBASTIAN (on camera): Well, this is Bristol's Clifton Suspension Bridge one of the top attractions in one of England's biggest cities. Now tourists

have been coming here for centuries, but experts say that it's the next few decades that could decide the future of travel.

SEBASTIAN (voice over): The Tourism Foundation says big changes are needed to meet the emissions targets set by the Paris Agreement and keep global

warming below 1.5 degrees Celsius.

Its report calls for major investments in cleaner modes of travel, like rail and electric cars, temporary caps on long haul flights, and closer

tracking of how tourism affects our environment. Ben Lynam, one of the report's authors says it's about offering better rather than fewer choices.

LYNAM: We're really not saying that people will be traveling less, you know, we will still be taking as many trips as we've always wanted to take.

We will just be finding new ways of doing it. We can either exceed climate limits with all the bad news that comes with that.


We can either curtail -- even more or we can try and work somewhere in the middle where we can actually say yes actually you know your freedom of

movement will not be altered. You can go and have wonderful experiences, but it's going to be different.

SEBASTIAN (on camera): So you're just a regular person booking a trip. What's your advice for how to look at this from a sustainable point of


LYNAM: It's very unfair to push this on an individual, when you are faced with cheap flights for 30 pounds to fly somewhere, easily. And then the

other option is very expensive train travel. Who are we to say that you should do one and not the other? So we've need to change the way that the

system works, so that it just becomes the most obvious option to take the least damaging holiday.

SEBASTIAN (on camera): Well, in theory, it shouldn't be too hard to convince tourists to take more trips closer to home, there are nice places

to eat and drink. There's rich history and weather's not too bad for the late spring. But the real question is how do you break those habits that

have formed over generations and really have people rethink how they travel?

SEBASTIAN (voice over): One group says trips further field can still be sustainable, much better adventures as a tour company that designs holidays

with the environment in mind, donating 5 percent of its revenues to conservation projects, in urging travelers to interact directly with local

communities. Rafting trips in Albania, for example, on a river once threatened by industrial development.

ALEX NARRACOTT, FOUNDER & CEO OF MUCH BETTER ADVENTURES: We recognize that it's unrealistic that no one's ever going to fly. So if you will do flight,

it's all about making sure when they get there at counting. It's maximizing the benefits that have a community, maximizing the benefits to the local


The tourist dollar, the money we're spending can have a huge impact on conservation of our natural world. Tourism is one of the best ways we could

achieve that, actually.

SEBASTIAN (on camera): Are you optimistic that the travel community will step up though to this moment will really make this change?

NARRACOTT: I am optimistic and I think the demand from customers is increasingly there people are calling out for sustainable choices. But

we're so far off in terms of ensuring that all the choices available to customers are sustainable choices. There's a real lack of direction from a

policy level or regulatory level that is changing but isn't changing fast enough.

SEBASTIAN (voice over): It's been a tricky path for the tourism sector to navigate the last few years. Now the hope is for it to emerge into a

brighter and more sustainable future.

STEWART (on camera): Well, that is all we have time for here on "Marketplace Europe". Thank you for joining us, you can find more online but for now for me goodbye.