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First Move with Julia Chatterley
U.S. Coast Guard: Submersible Suffered Implosion; Indian PM Modi on Final Day of U.S. State Visit; Eide: Electric Carts still Work in our Arctic Conditions; U.S. Navy Detected Possible Implosion on Sunday; Amazon Commits to Hire 5,000 Refugees in Europe; Powell Pulls No Punches before Congress. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired June 23, 2023 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: Welcome to "First Move" great to have you with us this Friday for the final show of the week. And coming up
over the next hour; Titan tragedy; condolences being sent to the friends and family of the five lost aboard the OceanGate submersible after it
suffered a catastrophic implosion days ago.
New details of the tragic event and new scrutiny of OceanGate itself and the experimental technology used to create the craft. Titanic Film Director
James Cameron says OceanGate's questionable safety oversight reminds him of the hubris of the original crew aboard the Titanic ship that sank over 100
years ago we will hear from him later on in this hour.
Plus, a defense of the counter offense the Ukrainian Prime Minister urging patients in response to apparent disappointment over their progress so far
and wine, dine and sign Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi honored at a lavish White House State Dinner, the two nations hammering out an array of
tech and defense deals along the way. He's also meeting numerous tech leaders Friday before leaving Washington D.C.
And from fine cuisine to red on the screen, a rough start to trade on tap U.S. Futures softer as you can see there. Actually Wall Street set for a
losing week Europe also down as you can see I'm pulling back quite significantly too.
We've had a wave of rate hikes in the past week from the United Kingdom, Turkey, Norway and Switzerland, highlighting central banker's inflation
fighting resolves remains undeterred, even at the cost of weaker economic growth. And of course that continues to weigh on markets too.
Turkey's central bank also saying its rate hike this week after a two year Erdogan led siesta is just the first in a series of moves. They favor
though a gradual approach they say, investors it seems want more and they want it faster.
The Turkish Lira falling for a second straight day against the dollar as a result. A busy show coming up as always, but let's get right to our main
story today. A search for answers after the search for the missing submersible ended in tragedy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REAR ADMIRAL JOHN MAUGER, U.S. COAST GUARD: This is an incredibly unforgiving environment down there on the seafloor, and the debris is
consistent with a catastrophic implosion of the vessel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: The U.S. Navy says it detected sounds of a possible implosion in the area on Sunday, around the same time communication was lost. They
judged at the time that it was not definitive proof of an accident. So the search operations continued.
Paula Newton joins us now. Paula, we continue to get more and more detailed. I think, just listening to what we've heard in the past 24 hours
I think the one saving grace is that those on board probably knew very little about what happened and we hope didn't suffer. The suffering now is
left to their family and friends left behind.
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely a small measure of comfort for the friends and family of the five who have already been through so much
and Julia there will be plenty of time in the coming weeks and months for the investigation. But right now the family is trying to come to terms with
five people who were committed to the exploration of the deep sea
PAUL-HENRI NARGEOLET, DIVER: The 24th of July 1987 was my first dive to the Titanic with two team members and it was an unforgettable moment.
NEWTON (voice over): That was Paul-Henri Nargeolet, 77-year-old Frenchman who made more than 30 dives to the Titanic, earning him the nickname Mr.
Titanic. David Gallo is Nargeolet's close friend colleague and an oceanographer himself.
DAVID GALLO, OCEANOGRAPHER, FRIEND OF NARGEOLET: I'm sure he did everything he could, or would do everything he could do to make sure that they had
every chance of surviving whatever it was.
NEWTON (voice over): For Stockton Rush, the Chief Executive of the firm behind the dive was also on board. The experience of those involved was
always crucial to the mission.
STOCKTON RUSH, FOUNDER & CEO, OCEANGATE: There are five individuals can go on each dive. Three of those are what we call Mission Specialists. So those
are the folks who helped finance the mission, but they're also active participants. So why are -- we not a fan of the tourists term is because
these are crew members.
NEWTON (voice over): One of those crew members is the British Billionaire and Explorer Hamish Harding, part of two record breaking trips to the South
Pole. He also held a world record for the fastest circumnavigation of the globe via both poles. Last year he went into space with Jeff Bezos Blue
HAMISH HARDING, BUSINESSMAN, EXPLORER: I've always wanted to do this and this year experience of looking out of the window is something I'm looking
NEWTON (voice over): In a post on social media before the dive he described feeling proud to be part of the Titan's expedition also onboard Shahzada
Dawood, who comes from one of the Pakistan's richest families and lived in the UK with his wife and two children.
He had taken his son Suleman just 19-years-old along with him. A family statement asked for privacy and prayers, when the sub went missing a search
that was called impossible now over, the Titan and the five people on board now lie at the bottom of the ocean.
NEWTON: You know, I know there has been a lot of speculation as to why they launched this robust international effort, even if the U.S. Navy had
perhaps surmise that there was what they call a catastrophic implosion.
Having said that, certainly Canadian officials say look, we are obligated to basically call out the resources that we can muster, given what was, you
know, essentially an SOS call. And they certainly while they are pulling back resources now do not regret the effort that was taken to save these
CHATTERLEY: I understand. Paula Newton, thank you so much for that. And following the tragedy, that company OceanGate and its CEO who was aboard
the Titan are coming under heavy scrutiny. Gabe Cohen joins us now.
Gabe, there were concerns about safety raised in the years I think we can call it in the run up to this tragedy. The industry itself small knit tight
knit community. Some are starting to voice more concerns. What are officials saying at this moment, because there's clearly going to have to
be an investigation?
GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes look Julia many experts in the deep sea community say the warning signs from OceanGate -- they were there they were
evident they were obvious. But they were ignored the way the vessel was built the way it was tested. And all of this was long before it plunged to
a catastrophic collapse.
COHEN (voice over): This morning, Former OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush and his ill-fated Titan Submersible facing intense scrutiny. Rush who perished
in the Titan had a reputation as a visionary, but also as a self-proclaimed rule breaker.
RUSH: I think it was General MacArthur said you're remembered for the rules you break. And you know, I've broken some rules to make this, I think got
broken with logic and good engineering behind me.
COHEN (voice over): The Co-Founder of OceanGate, Guillermo Sohnlein, says he had complete faith in Rush and would have gone on the Titanic expedition
himself if he'd had the chance.
GUILLERMO SOHNLEIN, CO-FOUNDER, OCEANGATE: There's always a risk of catastrophic implosion. It's something that we know about. It's something
that we plan for plan against and it's just a known risk.
COHE (voice over): DJ Virnig, who's a subcontractor for OceanGate says Russia's experimental design past testing for the pressures that will be
found at Titanic steps.
DOUGH "DJ" VIRNIG, SUBCONTRACTOR: Then the question is, well, if you do that repeatedly, then what happens? So these are the sorts of questions
that if you have a long research and development program, you start answering, but if you really are pushing the envelope, there's no time to -
- answering those questions in real time.
COHEN (voice over): Will Conan, who chairs the Submarine Committee of the Marine Technology Society, says he wrote to Rush concerned OceanGate wasn't
following the same safety standards as other vessels.
In his 2018 letter first obtained by "The New York Times" Conan warned Rush about what he called the company's experimental approach that could have
serious consequences. CNN has previously reported that two Former OceanGate employees who were not engineers separately raised safety concerns years
ago, about the of the Titan sub.
This was made of carbon fiber composite, the type of material used in spacecraft. Filmmaker James Cameron, who's made more than 30 dives to the
wreckage of the Titanic himself says the danger of using carbon fiber composite is known within the engineering community.
JAMES CAMERON, DIRECTOR, TITANIC: We always understood that this was the wrong material for submersible hauls, because with each pressure cycle, you
can have progressive damage. It's quite insidious, and that I think, load them into a sense of confidence and lead to this tragedy.
COHEN: And Julia, I interviewed Stockton Rush several times as a reporter back in Seattle, and I really pressed him about the safety of these
vessels. And he told me, he viewed those submersibles as armored vehicles and before another expedition, he said to me "Everyone is getting back
safe. We can take risks with equipment, but not with people".
And you asked about officials. We know that experts have said it's basically the Wild West out there when you dive in international waters. So
at this point, there's very little regulation we're not sure what the investigation if any could entail.
CHATTERLEY: But that's an interesting statement. We can take risks with technology and not with people. Gabe good to have you thank you for that
Gabe Cohen! Ukrainian's air defenses are claiming success in the latest wave of Russian missiles attacks. Kyiv says it shut down all 13 missiles
launched against an airfield in the west of the country overnight.
But Ukraine says Russia and five did get through in the Zaporizhzhia region where it killed at least two people. And on the diplomatic front Kyiv is
taking political flak from allies over what many stays the slow pace of progress in its counteroffensive. But Ukraine's Prime Minister responded
with a kind of reality check.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DENYS SHMYHAL, UKRAINIAN PRIME MINISTER: Counteroffensive is not Hollywood movie is not easy work. Counteroffensive is number of military operations,
sometimes is offensive. Sometimes it's defensive. Sometimes it could be tactical process. Unfortunately, during our preparation for this
counteroffensive Russians were preparing too. So there is so many minefields which really make it slower to -- I mean movement into their
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: And Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi will have lunch with U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris and Secretary of State Antony Blinken
this Friday the final day of his state visit. Thursday's events culminated in a dinner at the White House with CEOs from tech giants Apple, Google and
Microsoft also attending. President Joe Biden made this toast to his guest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: In terms to our partnership to our people, to the possibilities lie ahead two great
friends, two great nations and two great powers, cheers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: And before the dinner, Prime Minister Narendra Modi made a rare address to Congress that also drew protests from some Democrats. Arlette
Saenz joins us now. Arlette it's hard not to make a comparison between the warmth the congeniality two great friend's comparisons between the Indian
Prime Minister and the deterioration in relations that we've seen between the United States and China, the second most populous nation in the world.
But I think that contrast perhaps was meant. Do you think the U.S. Administration view this as a success? And what else will we see from Prime
Minister Modi today?
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well Julia, the White House certainly tried to pull out all the stops rolling out the red carpet for
India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi, as they are trying to show that they are focused on bolstering ties with India, which they really view as the
President described as one of the defining partnerships of the 21st century.
That is why you saw him have this lavish state dinner, big arrival ceremony and also address Congress. Ultimately, the White House is betting that
India could serve as a counterbalance to China. You know, the White House says that this was not a trip about China. But it certainly was the
backdrop of much of the discussions and the topics that came up over this state visit.
Yesterday in fact, in that press conference that President Biden held, he didn't walk back the fact that he had called the Chinese President, a
dictator. He said that he doesn't think that though, that labeling Xi that way is going to impact their efforts to stabilize the relationship, and
that he still hopes that he can speak and meet with Xi in the future.
But the fact that the President was holding the state visit for India, it also shows how they were weighing the focus on countering China against
some of the tough issues that they face regarding India, especially when it comes to Modi's human rights record.
He addressed Congress, there were at least six Democrats who decided to boycott that speech due to his human rights record, and the White House
ahead of time has said that the President wasn't going to lecture Modi on human rights or democracy, the President did say that he brought up
democratic values in their discussions.
But it was also notable that Modi stood before the press and took some questions. That is something that Modi very rarely does. And he took a very
pointed question about his own crackdown on political dissidents, as well as targeting of religious minorities.
Now, Modi stood there and claimed that there is no space for discrimination in his country, and that it's important that a democracy thrives. But there
are still questions about his human rights records and this drift towards authoritarianism that we've seen from Modi.
But really what the White House has been trying to emphasize here in the course of these past two days, is that they do believe that bolstering this
relationship with India will serve as that counterbalance to China.
A bit later this morning, Biden and Modi will be meeting with tech leaders from the AI semiconductor and also space industries, as he's trying to show
that they're trying to build these relationships, strengthen these economic ties, especially in some of those evolving is industries as well.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and diversification of supply chains a crucial part of that certainly. Arlette great to have you with us thank you! Arlette Saenz
OK coming up here on "First Move" on the road to 100 percent zero emission car sales its Norway way to make the planet a greener place that's next.
And later a path to safety for refugees we'll hear about efforts to find security and jobs for vulnerable displaced people stay with "First Move"
that's up next.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". Norway is a well-known leader in renewable energy. Over 90 percent of its electricity comes from
hydroelectric power. And it's now aiming for 100 percent of cars sold to be zero emission vehicles by 2025. And they're not far away.
This year, electric cars account for 90 percent of new cars purchased. Just to put that in context. Around 35 percent of all cars in the greater Oslo
area are now fully electric. And it's been a long road. Let's be clear to get to this point, including decades of government driven incentives just
to name a few and you can barely see that chart, but it's an important one.
In 2001 EVs were sold without sales tax. Later, they were given the right to drive and bustling discounts were offered on traveling on things like
ferries and charging facilities were provided in apartment buildings. Remember also though Norway's Western Europe's largest petroleum producer,
the majority of its oil and gas is exported, which has certainly helped them shore fund the internal transition to renewables.
Joining us now Espen Barth Eide, he is Norway's Minister of Climate and Environment and he's joining us from Oslo. Minister, fantastic to have you
on the show clearly much to discuss! With regard to electric vehicles this is an astonishing achievement. And in many cases, it was about laying the
groundwork long before there were enough cars or access to electric vehicles or hybrids from the suppliers.
ESPEN BARTH EIDE, NORWEGIAN MINISTER OF CLIMATE AND ENVIRONMENT: That's absolutely right. We started very early as you very correctly said decades
ago, we exempted the electric cars fully electric cars that are from -- from the normal car taxes so that they were relatively cheaper than they
would have been without those measures.
And we also started to give certain benefits for driving in bus lanes for instance, so it was quite attractive to get an electric car, but there
weren't that many electric cars around so for many years this was a policy waiting for the vehicles.
But then, a little bit over 10 years ago, we really got this boom, among others from Tesla, but some other car makers really came with cars that
were attractive for families for long range and so on. And then suddenly, this really took off. And then what we've seen after that is on top of the
benefits at the point of sales, it's also important to have a charging infrastructure.
So eventually, the focus moved towards making sure that wherever you are in the country, there is a chart to close to you. So you never run out of
battery and now people have really accepted this and people basically love these cars.
CHATTERLEY: I mean, there were so many pieces to this, the chart looking at Tesla purchases, relative to everyone else, even in 2023. And I think we've
got that somewhere is quite fascinating. So perhaps we have to thank Elon Musk as well for the progress that you're making.
But as you mentioned, it was wow, look at that. I mean, that's the chart now, it was about efforts to equalize the economics between combustion
cars, and electric or hybrid vehicles. And as you said, sort of higher taxes for high emission cars, and lower relatively for the cleaner
vehicles. It is about the economics first and foremost. And then we can talk about charging.
EIDE: Yes, exactly. So we actually did not really increase the tax on petrol-cars, we just took away all kinds of tax on the electric cars. So we
had the benefit in quotation marks that our taxes for cars used to be relatively high. So taking them away, totally meaning all taxes, all VAT,
all fees meant quite a significant advantage for the electric car, which would normally in the market 10 to 15 years ago, the more expensive car.
So that was normalized. And then people realized that once you have that car, your electricity is generally much less expensive than the alternative
fuel, which would be getting, you know petrol or gasoline. And so it was cheaper in use. And then came all the other added benefits.
So all of that together, made people really interested, once the cars came along, that actually could take your family decent distance also will be in
the conditions because you should remember that Norway is a sparsely populated country with a rather large country, large distances and very
We have very long winters. So if anybody wonders in California or somewhere else if electric car works in winter, well, yes, it does. It works in our
really arctic conditions range gets a little lower, but still well inside of what people actually need.
CHATTERLEY: That's the key, though, to what you were saying earlier, which is charging and the ability to charge wherever you go, particularly if
people are sparsely populated and have relatively long distances to go. And I was looking at some of the data on this. And perhaps you can correct me
if I'm wrong.
But I think you've got 22,000 public charges that have been installed now for around half a million EV. So I make those 23 cars per available charge
when you've mandated rest stops positioning apartment buildings, as I mentioned. Do you think ultimately that's the key taking away that charging
anxiety, and people not worrying about traveling and having to find somewhere to charge or long wait times for charging?
EIDE: Yes, I think that's exactly spot on, because now the price has been normalized. So you're actually not paying much more for electric car. And
then you get the benefit in usage. As long as you know that you will not run out of battery before you get to your destination, or at least that you
can charge on the way.
And of course the way, we live in Norway, most people live in houses, not in the big cities, but in the rest of the country. That normally means you
can charge at home. So you start in the morning with a fully charged car. The point is that you also want to get somewhere with that car.
And then if that's the short distance, you will just use your own house electricity that you charged in the morning, in the long distance you need
to make be assured that the charging infrastructure is there. And now it is, and in the early days, it was basically around in and around the large
cities that we have charging infrastructure.
Then we saw a fast uptake in cities, but not so much in the countryside. Today, we have charging infrastructure from basically all over the country.
And that means that we've seen a fast uptake also in the most remote counties of the country where people originally were skeptical because
they're seeing that they are also no beneficiary of this.
And then last thing I'd like to say on that is that now people are not so worried alone any longer about range because range has become rather good
5, 600 kilometers for many even not very expensive cars. What they are now worried about is the charging time.
So much of the technology we see now is to reduce the time it takes to charge the car and eventually that will not be much longer than having a
cup of coffee which you probably shouldn't have anyway, if you've already driven 4 or 500 kilometers.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, that's a great point, actually time to have a bit of a rest and recharge personally never mind the car. You know, we've seen a
dramatic fall in the cost of batteries. And this is also one aspect that I think is important. We actually don't have enough of the resources that go
into these batteries, the rare earth elements, for example.
For other nations to be as comprehensive as you've done, what are you doing? And what are you thinking about the surety of supplies? Because most
of these elements are mined in, we can call them unstable countries in particular. I worry that we're swapping, one reliance on oil and gas from
certain unstable countries to perhaps rare earth elements and beyond in other nations. How do we focus on that and -- ?
EIDE: Julia, I'm so happy you asked that question, because literally two days ago, the government here came out with mineral strategy, mineral
mining strategy, which was precisely aimed at saying we the green shift, the green transition, needs a lot of new rare earths metals, minerals.
And we cannot rely on them only coming from faraway places, maybe under the control of authoritarian States. So we need in Europe and in Norway, to do
our own homework to see what we have. And we actually have some of that in our soil and in our mountains.
So we are now reopening or starting new mines, trying to do that in the most environmentally friendly way, focusing on nature restoration
afterwards, and making sure that we this is moving into a circular economy. But we have to be very honest and you're spot on here. We will need more of
this stuff, if you want to decarbonize the world.
So as oil goes out, our system which it has to do, because we cannot continue to heat the planet, as we've done, we will need these rare earths
and minerals, they are not contributing negatively to climate change, but they have to be environmentally friendly and nature friendly.
So we're also seeing this as an opportunity for growing new businesses, which are all those businesses related to electrification and to battery
technology. That means for the windmills, for the solar panels for a bit also for the battery components. And we are very eager as all the European
States are in what's called the European battery Alliance.
That every battery that we make now is eco designed so that it can be reused and used over and over again. And when you cannot use it any longer,
you will be able to take out the components to make new batteries or other new electronics that you need for the green transition.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, recycling.
EIDE: So all this computer and I think it's important to. Yes, exactly recycling reuse, and making sure that the nature footprint this as low as
CHATTERLEY: Minister I have about a minute left. But I do want to get just your view on this, because to your point, there are trade-offs here. When
you build a wind farm, there's environmental costs, if you start drilling for these minerals, you're benefiting on the one hand.
But there are environmental concerns, or at least, you're certainly getting pressure from environmentalists on some of these choices. How do you weigh
up the costs versus the benefits? And how do you explain it to people that is concerned?
EIDE: Exactly. So you know, a Minister of Climate and Environment. So if I was only Climate Minister, maybe I would say that all kinds of new energy
and clean energy are good. As an Environmental Minister, I have to tell myself, well, not always because we cannot put the windmills on the most
sensitive parts of land.
So we need to reconcile this, we have to make sure that we know what we do to nature when we expand the use of renewable technology. Because, you
know, oil and gas, we did not put such a big demand on nature of space, what they did was to destroy the planet by global warming.
So now we need to replace an energy form that is terrible for the climate with one that is good for the climate that needs space. So that means that
we have to think seriously about what kind of space what's the spatial planning, what else should we not do in order to allow all this clean
energy to be produced. And that's a genuine dilemma.
EIDE: It's a dilemma that we have to solve, because it's not either or we have to remember that we are living in the time of a climate crisis, but
also a nature crisis. And these two have to be reconciled. Good news is it can be done because we know how to produce more with less.
We're getting increasingly efficient with the same area user space, but we need to make sure that we think about this as a holistic package.
EIDE: And that's a part of what we're in the mid so right now.
CHATTERLEY: Yes I like the way you frame the challenge because it is a trade off in some respects it's different but it is a trade-off and we have
to be very aware of climate and the environment as you say. And Minister, I'm just getting warmed up. But I've run out of time. So please come back
on soon and we'll continue the conversation. Great to have you on sir, thank you, Espen Barth Eide there.
EIDE: Thank you, Julia. It was great to be on your show.
CHATTERLEY: Likewise, Norway's Minister of Climate and Environment. Sir, thank you. Have a great weekend. We're back up to this.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", a search for answers underway after the missing ocean gates submersible suffered a "catastrophic
implosion" that according to the U.S. Coast Guard. Meanwhile, the U.S. Navy says it detected the sound of a possible implosion on Sunday, around the
same time communication was lost with the vessel.
And at that time too, the noise was not thought to be definitive. So those search operations continued regardless. Miguel Marquez joins us now.
Miguel, it's a community that I think that's also in mourning for this loss. What have they been telling you?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Yes, very much. So yes, we're in a Harborside Park here in St. John's, the flags are at half-staff.
Everybody's sort of calmed down. There was this real sense of hope clinging to a sliver of hope for much of this week, but also fear that if they were
alive, they were in horrible conditions in the dark.
It was cold they would have been having dwindling oxygen. And then to have this news that this massive implosion, the craft breaking up into several
pieces coming to rest just in front of the Titanic itself, the wreckage that it was going to see. It's just struck a lot of people this is a
They're used to dealing with emergencies at sea with oil, gas, fishermen, and those sorts of things. And I think this one was different.
They also have a very long history of the Titanic here from the time that the Titanic itself went down to the films that were made to all of that
research community that ships out that way. This is the closest land to it forged 60 miles away. So there's a real tide of the seat as a real tie to
And it's striking people hard there. It was just a shock to realize that it ended this way. In some ways people have said, it may be for the best that
the fact that it happened so quickly. These people never knew what happened.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, the one saving grace, hey, we pray they didn't suffer. Miguel, thank you so much for that, Miguel Marquez. And filmmaker James
Cameron, who directed the 97 movie Titanic and has made more than 30 dives himself to the wreckage has been speaking about the tragic outcome, he
joined my colleague Anderson Cooper.
CAMERON: The only scenario that I could come up with in my mind that could account for that was an implosion, a shockwave event so powerful that it
actually took out a secondary system that has its own pressure vessel, and its own battery power supply, which is the transponder that the ship uses
to track where the sub is.
So I was thinking implosion then that's Monday morning, I got on the horn again with some other people track down some Intel that was probably of a
military origin, although it could have been researched. Because there are hydrophones all over the Atlantic and got confirmation that there was some
kind of loud noise consistent with an implosion event.
That seemed to me enough confirmation that I let my entire inner circle of people know that we had lost our comrades. And I encourage everybody to
raise a glass in their honor on Monday. Then I watched over the ensuing days, this whole sort of everybody running around with their hair on fire
search, knowing full well that it was futile.
Hoping against hope that I was wrong but knowing in my bones that I wasn't. I'm not worried about exploration because explorers will go. And I'm not
worried about innovation because people innovate. I'm worried that it has a negative impact on let's say, citizen explorers, tourists, you know.
But these are serious people with serious curiosity, willing to put serious money down to go to these interesting places. And I don't want to
discourage that. But I think that it's almost now the lesson the takeaway is, make sure if you're going to go into a vehicle, whether it's an
aircraft or a surface craft or a submersible.
That it's been through certifying agencies, you know, that it's been signed off. Every day we trust our lives to engineering, we step into an elevator.
We make an assumption that somebody somewhere has done the math properly, and it's all been certified properly. We should take the same precautions
when we get into a submersible.
CHATTERLEY: OK, still to come, a commitment by some of the world's biggest companies to help welcome and hire displaced people in Europe, my interview
with a Tent Partnership, next.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", hope away from home was the theme of this year's World Refugee Day. At a time when we're seeing people
displaced and move across Europe in greater numbers than any time since World War Two. One organization is working to help integrate them into
communities and into the workforce.
The Tent Partnership for refugees has more than 300 companies in industries ranging from retail and hospitality to technology and also manufacturing.
And earlier this week, I spoke to Hamdi Ulukaya, the Chairman and CEO of Chobani and the Founder of the Tent Partnership along with J. Ofori Agboka,
the Vice President of People Experience and Technology for Global Operations at Amazon.
And we spoke about the importance of training, hiring and investing in Europe's refugees. And what they also give back.
HAMDI ULUKAYA, FOUNDER OF TENT PARTNERSHIP FOR REFUGEES: We've launched this project because Sunflower, to mobilize businesses to hire and train
Ukrainian refugees all across Europe. 40 companies committed all across Europe to hire train 250,000 refugees in the next three years.
And that means, you know, we estimated $2 billion a year, you know, income for refugees across the Europe. So this is the intent was when we started
in February, this project here in London, that we would have, you know, companies that already exist in Tent coalition but getting new companies in
France and U.K. in an all areas of Europe and mobilize them to get involved this most critical American questions.
CHATTERLEY: And many of these are multinational companies, they'd already made commitments to help U.S. base refugees. And now this is about helping
support refugees that are located all across Europe too. Ofori coming here because I know for you as well, like Hamdi, this is not just about a
commitment by the company that you work for.
It's also personal your father of his own free will move from Ghana, but started his life fresh in the United States. So, you know what it's like to
change everything and to grow up rebuilding your life. What does this mean to be part of, not just for Amazon, but for you personally?
J. OFORI AGBOKA, VP OF PEOPLE EXPERIENCE & TECHNOLOGY FOR GLOBAL OPERATIONS AT AMAZON: Yes, you know, thank you, Julia. And thank you Hamdi again, good
to see, I'll tell you, it means so much, you know, first, Amazon, our commitment, to hire 5000 refugees here in Europe over the next three years,
which is an addition to the 5000 refugees.
We committed to hire last year, the United States over through 2024. In addition to that hiring commitment, we understand the importance of
training, we've committed to 10,000 training 10,000 Ukrainians globally free of charge through our IT skills for you program, you know, so that is
a global program, again, free of charge.
So it's exciting for so many reasons. And as you pointed out, you know, it is personal to me. But before I get to why it's personal to me, I want to
tell you why we're doing it as a company. We're doing it number one, because it's the right thing to do. We recognize as a company, that there's
a community out there that we have an opportunity to lean in to help.
We have an opportunity to lean into our leadership principle of success and scale brings about brought responsibility. And then lastly, we really
believe in a strong, diverse workforce, diversity makes it stronger. The innovation, the talent, the creativity that a diverse workforce brings to
us into business is so, so important.
And as you pointed out, the personal part to me is, as you pointed out, my father did emigrate from Ghana more than 52 years ago. And he came with his
own free will in the court. And I'm so proud to work for Amazon where our company recognizes that everyone didn't have the luxury that my father had.
People don't come, they have not come. They left our country for various reasons. And we as Amazon are here to make sure that they find meaningful
employment and partner with great organizations like Tent and other organizations to make sure that they're successful as they start their new
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's an important part of feeling like you belong and Hamdi you've said to as many times now, you stop being a refugee, that
moment you have a job and you have purpose and meaningful work and you start to feel like you're building a home in a foreign country.
Talk to me about what you just mentioned there about the specifics in terms of training and jobs because this is not all about jobs it is about sort of
helping people transition to a new life, what's the prospect for those people that are being provided with some form of training, perhaps for a
future career or a future job?
ULUKAYA: You know, training on this part of what you mentioned, is so crucial, right? So it's not only for the refugees, it's crucial for
everyone jobs are changing, the technologies are changing, the lives are changing. And how we get aligned with this is extremely important. But this
is more crucial for refugees.
Imagine a sister of mine refugee sister of mine yesterday in the -- talked, you know, Hannah, when she moved from Ukraine to Moldova into Poland. She
was, you know, financial investor, and she ended up doing the technology side of it in a technology company, and how she learned all that skills was
extremely crucial for her to be able to get a job.
So these companies, these -- companies, and offering this job training is actually preparing for refugees to be aligned for the jobs that are
available where they are, and also is available for their life going forward.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's about tackling the skills gap -- language barrier, but also, I think, integrating into society. Ofori quick come in. If I
still you'll know, --
AGBOKA: -- I'll just add, then, in addition to what we do at Amazon is we add that immigration support, we're legal support and consultation. So
Hamdi is exactly right, the training the up-skilling, but the community involvement, but addition is that legal support and immigration support, we
find it to be very valuable.
As Hamdi pointed out some of our speakers just at the Tent Summit, Daria is a good example. She migrated, she was a refugee from the Ukraine, she's in
Poland, she took part in our program, and she's thriving, she's successful. She's actually a part of it, IT skills for you training programs.
She's a program manager, where she's now giving back to Ukrainian refugees, in being an example of the success that we want to replicate over and over
around the globe for this refugee population.
CHATTERLEY: It's also smart business sense as well Hamdi, you and I again, and we've talked about this, that your surveys across Europe suggest that
actually consumers prefer to go to brands that are doing their part for societies and integrating refugees.
To your point too, the hope is that this will generate what 2 billion euros worth of income for these refugees, and one would hope that's paid out of
profits for these businesses too. This is not charity. This is about supporting a better business. And as Ofori was saying there are more
diverse businesses a stronger business.
ULUKAYA: Exactly. And Julia, you know, we talked about this, you know, before this is not a child, just like you said, this is good for business,
there's not many things that you could bring to the table that is good for business is good for refugees, and good for society and community.
This checks all of that, Ofori is extremely passionate about this, because you already seen the results, right? He's very close to people he runs in
is an amazing leader for this amazing company across the world. And what you see refugees bring to the businesses.
When it comes to productivity when it comes to commitment, when it comes to innovation, culture, all dimensions is really checked that this is a truly
good for business. And yet, you will see an enormous amount of effect on refugees.
CHATTERLEY: Ofori, I want you to actually respond to what Hamdi was saying there about you actually seeing the direct benefits. And it's actually not
just about this latest announcement, you've mentioned it a couple of times, I think the 10,000 Ukrainian refugees, that you're helping with data
analytic skills under the Amazon Web Services umbrella, it's IT skills for you.
For people that might be watching that think actually, maybe this does apply to me and I perhaps could come and get that training. I believe it's
free as well. What's your message to those people that are perhaps nervous? They don't know whether they should apply but would like to. What's the
message about sort of overcoming that boundary and signing up and getting support?
AGBOKA: You know, I'd say, be courageous go for IT skills for you is a phenomenal program for Ukrainians, not just refugees, Ukrainians globally,
through our AWS program. So people will not only get trained, they can get certifications, they can improve their skills.
So I would encourage people to go to the website and take a look and get involved in you'll surprise yourself, up skill yourself. And you may find
yourself whether you're tech savvy or not that you find yourself in a position that you find a career or a passion that you didn't know of.
CHATTERLEY: It's great advice. Hamdi, I can't help but compare and contrast to the support that you guys are talking about to.
What we saw with the tragic loss of life with the boat that sank off the coast of Greece in the last week and what's often discussed? Which is this
sort of effective double standards perhaps in the treatment of refugees or displaced people from certain parts of the world? Do you agree that there's
a double standard? And what more can we do to sort of close that gap, I think?
ULUKAYA: The conflict invasion in Ukraine just happened. You know, over a year ago, I was at the border in Poland. And when I see millions are
crossing, that's it, there's no difference between that crossing from the human tragedy, the crossing that I have seen between Venezuela and
Colombia, or the crossing I've seen in Greek islands, or in the border of Jordan and Syria, or Turkey and Syria.
This is saying human tragedy in everywhere. And how we respond, I think, into the Ukrainian crisis, Europe actually shines in this moment, like we
had the Vice President of European Commission at that event yesterday, he spoke really, really well on this.
And I think Europe has to, you know, make a decision on how they respond and how they can be, you know, committed to be there when the tragedy
happens. And I think they broke up a new level of response when Ukrainian tragedy happened. And I think that's going to wake up in a lot of people.
There is, if you look at from the perspective of, you know, how big this issue is, or how devastating this is, probably will, you will take that
there is so many issues from you know, how we respond from based on region to region, or double standards and all kinds of stuff.
But what we saw yesterday is unified business community, and responding to this, you know, tragedy as refugees being brothers and sisters, and just
like one of us, and seeing that business community would dramatically benefit from this, and bringing their voice and their ability to you know,
CHATTERLEY: Thanks to Hamdi there and Ofori. Stay with "First Move", we'll back after this.
CHATTERLEY: A warm welcome back to "First Move", on what a week it's been in business news, Musk and Zuckerberg apparently agreed to a Vegas cage
fight any wagers on who will be left standing upright. All we ask is that they please do it out of fight. And lab grown meat is approved in the U.S.
will consumers take a bite.
And Central Bankers flex their rate hiking might Jay Powell creating new Fed action fright. And finally on Wall Street to rate concerns making the
outlook slightly less bright, a lower open and a losing week on tap the NASDAQ in fact sector snap an eight week winning streak.
Fresh economic numbers out of Europe also not helping sentiment private sector growth in the euro zone slowing significantly in June. Activity in
manufacturing also pulling back sharply and slow growth concerns weighing on the oil markets to Brent and U.S. crude both down well over 2 percent in
trade also heading for a weekly loss.
So that certainly ties to those growth concerns. And finally, on "First Move", this Friday a chance to own what might be the one and only world's
most recognizable dress the white gown worn by Carrie Fisher, when she played Princess Leia in the original 1977 Star Wars movie.
It's up for auction the seller says it might go for as much as $2 million. It does look a little like a sheep there. Never mind the white one is all
about that gold bikini. Do you remember that gold bikini with an enormous coat over the top to keep warm? And that's enough jabbering for me.
That's it for the show. If you've missed any of our interviews today, they will be on my Twitter and Instagram pages. Search for @jchatterleycnn. In
the meantime, "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson is up next. I'll see you on Monday.