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First Move with Julia Chatterley

Ukraine: 10 Dead in Russian Strike on Kramatorsk; Bidenomics on Tour; HKEX CEO: We're Trying to Make it Easy for Mainland Investors to Buy Stocks Seamlessly; Seychelles' Blue Economy; Ghodsi: Databricks is Rooted in Silicon Valley; South Korea Scraps "Korean Age". Aired 9-10a ET

Aired June 28, 2023 - 09:00   ET




JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: A warm welcome to "First Move", great to have you with us for another busy show just ahead on the program

this Wednesday. Deadly strike at least 10 lives lost, dozens injured after a Russian missile attack in Eastern Ukraine. Russian shelling intensifying

is Kyiv claims its counter offensive is making progress.

We've got the very latest coming up. Plus, flight fright, wicked weather in the U.S. northeast triggering travel chaos coast to coast. More than 9000

flights canceled on Tuesday alone. Dense smoke from Canadian wildfires once again not helping either, today's flight outlook just ahead.

And then the central summit Central Bank heavy hitters, including Fed Chair Jerome Powell and European Central Bank Head Christine Lagarde sit down for

a panel discussion at a conference in Portugal, later this hour. We're on - - surprise watch looking for comments on things like interest rates of course, and the inflation outlook.

And as investors wait for signals, U.S. stock market futures are softer after Tuesday's broad based rally the S&P 500 in fact notching its best

session in two weeks, and the DOW closing in the green for the first time in seven sessions. Although U.S.-China tensions creating a chip dip this

Wednesday amid reports that the U.S. is mulling export curbs on sophisticated artificial intelligence related chips to China.

Industry Leaders in video and other chip names like AMD lower in pre-market trade and a mix at the stock markets over and across Asia amid weaker

Chinese data industrial profits. That's company's profits sinking almost 20 percent year over year, Beijing perhaps needing to show a friendly face to

overseas business amid the economic uncertainty.

And well, President Xi Jinping pledging today that China will protect the rights of foreign investors. We discussed the outlook and the opportunity

with the CEO of HKEX which owns the Hong Kong stock exchange. Later this hour a busy show coming up as always.

We do begin though in Ukraine and the country's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, calling the deadly strike on Kramatorsk, "a manifestation of

terror. Two Russian missiles struck the Eastern city on Tuesday one hitting a busy city center, the other village nearby.

Among the victims a baby and these teenage twin sisters who had just graduated from the eighth grade. Ben Wedeman is in Eastern Ukraine for us

this morning. Ben, good to have you with us, whether targeting -- whether targeting here military installations or disease, are they appear to be

directly targeting of civilians, Ben?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Civilians. It's Julia. It's a restaurant. In fact, the CNN crew was there day before yesterday

having lunch. It's a restaurant that's popular with local residents as well as soldiers. So it's usually full of both of those types of people.

Now, the death toll at this point, according to local officials is at least 10 among them a 17 year old girl and twin 14 year old sisters who had just

graduated from eighth grade. In addition to that, at the moment, at least 61 people wounded including an eight month old baby. Now the rescue, the

search and rescue operation is continuing.

We did speak to some of those workers who told us that at this point, their expectation is if anybody's under the ruins, they are more likely dead than

alive. Now last night President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in his nightly address said he believed that this restaurant this area was hit by a S300 surface

to air missile.

These are missiles that are very inaccurate normally used to take down aircraft. But now it turns out that it was an Iskander missile which is a

hypersonic ballistic missile that is very difficult for radar to detect, let alone air defenses to bring down and it's also much more precise.

So it may be that the Russians had a target in mind whether it was this restaurant or something in the area but this is a civilian area. There are

homes, apartment buildings and post office nearby, a jewelry shop around the corner. There's no obvious military target this area, Julia.


CHATTERLEY: Ben Wedeman, there thank you for that report. And unrest in the streets of France overnight after a traffic stop ended with the death of a

teenager. I want to warn you what you're about to see is disturbing. Video shows two police officers beside a car in a Paris suburb.

The driver pulls away then a shot is fired. Police say a 17 year old boy refused to comply with an order to stop authority say an officer has been

detained. The shooting triggered violent protests with cars and rubbish cans set on fire and bus stops destroyed. French President Emmanuel Macron

called the shooting unjustifiable.


EMMANUEL MACRON, FRECH PRESIDENT: I would like to express the emotion of the entire nation at the death of young Nael and give his family our

solidarity and the affection of the nation. We need calm for justice to carry out its work. And we need calm everywhere because the situation means

we can't allow the situation to worsen.


CHATTERLEY: Melissa Bell joins us now. Melissa, some individuals certainly making their argument anger and their judgment of the situation fell

overnight with those protests. But what more do we know about exactly what happened?

MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: Well, two different accounts of events. And I think this is part of what's fueled the flames of the anger

as quickly as it has is the existence of that video that you just showed Julia. Over the last few years there have been several high profile cases

here in France of a traffic stops or identity checks leading to violent confrontations between the police and often unarmed civilians.

As was the case here young Nael was just 17 years old. He and two other passengers were pulled over that police check, moments later, he was fired

on. And there seems to have been some discrepancy with what police sources were telling us earlier in the day. And what then emerged from close

examination of that video now.

One of those police officers is now in police custody and solid suspicion of voluntary homicide. We understand that his questioning has just been

prolonged. But even as that investigation begins, this suspicions the fear of the people who came out on the streets last night.

As they have when there have been incidents like this in the past is that the hope of the police had been that their version would be police believed

and the video would not exist. In fact, what we are expecting here in France tonight is no doubt even more unrest.

Certainly, Julia, that is what officials are preparing for 350 policemen were deployed to Novatel that suburb to the northwest of Paris, where the

incident took place and where the unrest then followed over the course of the night. What French authorities are preparing for tonight is the

deployment of some 2000 police officers in several suburbs across Paris in anticipation of what they expect will be more anger at this incident.

And again, in the context where there have been far too many examples of overzealous police brutality or indeed lethal police intervention when

those involved have been unarmed. And it has happened all too often in those suburbs of Paris that are least well off.

That video is certainly what's driving that anger as is of course the age of the young man just 17 years old, Kylian Mbappe the French soccer jar so

are weighing in with that tweet and speaking of his sadness for his country, others for elder French actors calling for justice for this child.

He was just 17 years old. His mother is calling for a march tomorrow in his name, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, Melissa Bell, thank you for that. Meanwhile, travelers in the United States, suffering from chaos at the airport ahead of the 4th of

July weekend. Thousands of flights are being delayed and canceled amid a spate of severe storms on Tuesday night.

The Federal Aviation Administration, the FAA ordered a temporary halt to flight arrivals at all three major airports in the New York City area.

Jason Carroll has more.


JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Air travel to the three major New York Metro airports grinding to a halt Tuesday night putting a

huge strain on domestic air travel. Right on the brink of the Fourth of July holiday.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They pulled us back to the gate and said everybody off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No sleep. It's certainly been a test of patience.

CARROLL (voice over): The FAA says a ground stop for all flights going to all three airports is due to the thunderstorms in the New York area,

blocking arrival and departure routes. This video shot by one passenger arriving in New York Monday night shows the severity of those storms.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So I'm traveling to Maine for a work trip and unfortunately every flight just there has been delayed.


I don't even have my luggage. It's been over two days and I still haven't even seen Maine.

CARROLL (voice over): The problem started days ago when storms hit near major airline hubs in the admitted Atlantic and East Coast. That coupled

with air traffic control staffing shortages created a ripple effect nationwide. On Tuesday, more than 7000 flights were delayed and more than

2000 canceled.

On Monday nearly 9000 flights were delayed nationwide. That frustration is palpable at Newark and LaGuardia airports.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, five hours on the plane took us off top pilots timed out to more crew members timed out, started pushing back each flight

45 minutes, lost another pilot to timeout finally canceled the flight around 7:30.

CARROLL (voice over): Passengers were subjected to impossibly long lines and were left desperately trying to rebook flights with few options.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our rebooking that they gave us by default is for like July 2, our flights are about canceled. Some other passengers they're

saying that even when they tried to book it all filled.

CARROLL (voice over): The whole process leaving this passenger defeated.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People have planned these vacations for like, a long time -- .

CARROLL (voice over): Many passengers angry with the airlines for not offering more support, particularly United Airlines, which saw the most


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I will never fly with the United Airlines.

CARROLL (voice over): United Airlines CEO Scott Kirby blamed the FAA for the delays, saying in a memo to staff the FAA failed us this weekend.


CHATTERLEY: Pete Muntean joins us now from Reagan National Airport in Virginia. Pete, it's uncomfortable at any time. It's pretty bad when it

heads into a holiday weekend. Do we have any sense of how long what's been created by these storms are going to last before they can get the scheduled

back up and running and get these people to where they're going to go?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: It's been building for days, Julia. But the question now is whether or not the airlines can piece it

back together by Friday, when they're expecting so many people to travel by air here in the U.S. The TSA anticipates 2.8 million people to pack on

their commercial airliners on Friday.

It's the highest number we'll likely see since the start of the pandemic. But we know that when the deck of cards, comes tumbling down and that

really started to happen on Saturday at airports on the East Coast. It takes days for them to piece it together. So what we're watching right now

is really the recovery.

Just check flight aware 696 flight cancellations nationwide here in the U.S. more than 1200 delays. That's only about a third of what we saw

yesterday, but the day is still pretty young. In fact, those three ground stops at the New York area airports yesterday really incredible.

In fact, at one point at LaGuardia, they had no space to put planes at gates. It was almost gridlock on the ground, according to an FAA alert,

putting planes in pretty much any nook and cranny of taxiway that they could find. The delays and cancellations today look a lot like they did

yesterday, Newark, LaGuardia, JFK, Boston and Chicago O'Hare.

Those are the top airports. Right now United Airlines CEO Scott Kirby says this is simply the FAA's fault. It's mostly because of air traffic

controller shortages, he said really snowballing on top of weather. And that started on Saturday, continued into Sunday. And then we've seen what's

happened on Monday and Tuesday.

So we'll see now if the airlines can pull out of the dive but it's United Airlines, but has really taken it on the chin so far about 300

cancellations by United for its flights nationwide. Today, we're talking about 1 in 10. But they still pretty young here, Julia could rise even


And by the way, this is having an impact on international flights. We heard from one passenger who was simply trying to get from New York to South

Africa. That's a big route for United Airlines had to sleep on the floor to wait for her flight to finally come in. It's really having a snowball

effect here, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I was going to ask you about international flights, particularly if there's congestion, even on the on the runways and with

available gates, never mind, the storm out is all I can say. Pete, I know you'll stay across it. Thank you for joining us, Pete Muntean there.

All right, straight ahead Hong Kong's New York state of mind, the owner of the Hong Kong stock exchange hits the Big Apple in search of new growth

opportunities and investors will discuss that and the outlook with the CEO of HKEX. Plus, Joe Biden's fiscal bazooka the U.S. President on the road to

promoting his Bidenomics agenda, he says its transformational critics say less than sensational. Stay with us. We've got the details.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", the owner of the third largest stock market in Asia is hailing an important moment in its history with a

special cross continent and might they say extremely expensive perhaps cab ride. The Hong Kong Exchange and Clearing Limited, better known as the HKEX

is signaling its move to New York City with this video showing a famous red Hong Kong taxi crossing oceans and arriving in lower Manhattan.

The HKEX, not only christening its New York office openings but also hoping to expand to London soon, the goal is to attract more overseas investors

and encourage international listings. At a time I think when many fear further U.S.-China Economic de-risking and certainly de-coupling.

The firm's also announcing what it calls a significant milestone for Hong Kong markets. The launch of a new platform that will allow investors to

trade Hong Kong listed stocks, like Tencent and Alibaba, in both Hong Kong dollars and the Chinese Renminbi. It's all part of the HKEX's goal to be a

conduit between investors in the east and the west.

And Nicolas Aguzin is the CEO of Hong Kong Exchange and Clearing Limited and he joins us now. Nicolas, fantastic to have you on the show! We were

supposed to have this conversation last week when you were in New York. And I apologize that it got delayed. But we are now talking. Talk to me about

the conversations you had with investors here in the United States and what the message was?

NICOLAS AGUZIN, CEO OF HONG KONG EXCHANGE AND CLEARING LIMITED: Thank you, Julia, and great to be here. And it was a great week in New York. And we

had a lot of interest from people that have not been able to spend as much time as they want in this part of the world as a result of you know, COVID

over the last three, four years.

So it's great to be reconnecting again and for us to be opening our first office in the U.S. is really a great opportunity to hear what they're

interested around. Of course, they all want to talk about what's happening in the world of geopolitics. But they also want to know about the new

things that are being implemented in exchange.

The new type of connectivity initiatives whether it's around ETF connectivity, swap connectivity, and how they can be closer to a market

that has been quite under invested recently.

CHATTERLEY: Absolutely. I mean, give us a sense of that. In particular, what kind of flows have you seeing because you and I were talking in Davos

back in January and you would already telling me that the sort of first three weeks of the year had been huge in terms of flows.


And this real sense of a reopening particularly of China Post, COVID was creating a huge amount of excitement.

AGUZIN: There was a lot of expectation, or especially around the turn of the year with the reopening of China, that the market would see significant

growth and we saw a lot of flows in January and February. It did turn a little bit lower in March, April, May and what we're seeing is that the

investors are trying to calibrate what that growth of China is going to be?

And what impact that's going to have in a lot of the companies that are traded in our markets? Now what we've seen is that investors have been

actually participating quite actively in some of the derivatives markets that we have, not only to access Hong Kong, but to access Asia through Hong


So that part of the market has been quite active. It is still under some pressure in general, in terms of like the entire geopolitical environment,

the macro environment. But I would say that the new products that we have on the pipeline is something that's keeping investors quite excited.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. Which do you think is the biggest driver to your point? And we don't have to get into the whys and wherefores of it, but is it the

geopolitics? Perhaps it's the biggest driver? Or is it the macro concern, because there was great excitement earlier on this year about the growth of


And we actually had the Premier saying yesterday, that look, we aren't going to hit that 5 percent growth target this year. Stimulus clearly, I

think would help but it would also allay some of the concerns. But the geopolitics is tougher to solve for. And for an investor, I think that is

also a concern at this moment too clearly.

AGUZIN: Yes, I think they all play into each other from a macroeconomic point of view. I mean, at the beginning of the year, the expectations was

that we were seeing all of a sudden retail sales in the first quarter going up like 12 percent. And that gave some sense that growth could be

significantly higher than the 5 percent targeted by the government.

Then, by the beginning of the second quarter, what we started seeing that the manufacturing sector was having a bit of a slowdown, and that cooled

down some of the expectations. And now I would say that most of the analysts fall in the range of 5 to 6 percent. Of course, as you might

expect, geopolitics play a role into what's happening.

And depending on the day, there is some announcement one way or another and that moves the market. Then, when we combine that also with what's

happening around the interest rate environment than the expectation at the beginning of the year that interest rates were going to continue going


And then we now have like expectation that there may be still a little bit more of a like, uphill efforts around interest rate, then that created a

difficult environment that lacked the conviction to play one way or another.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, particularly if you're a foreign investor, and you're looking a long way from home, you the sense is to stay close to home, if

you are a more uncertain than you have been perhaps in the past. Speaking of that, let's talk about the dual counter scheme.

So this is allowing certain Hong Kong listed stocks, like I mentioned Tencent, Alibaba, Baidu is another one, to be traded in both the Hong Kong

dollar but also the Chinese Yuan. What's the message that sends? And what proportion of the trading in those stocks? Can you see whether today or in

the future being traded in the Chinese Yuan, specifically?

AGUZIN: Yes, I mean, one of the reasons why this is done is because we have a special program here whereby the exchanges on the Mainland, Shenzhen and

Shanghai, which are very, very liquid, I mean, they trade about 1 trillion Renminbi per day, I mean, they're very, very liquid.

And those people today have to purchase stocks in Hong Kong dollars, creating some inefficiency. So what we're trying to do is to make sure that

when those investors in the Mainland buy stocks in Hong Kong, they can do it a bit more seamlessly. And that should create a bit of demand.

Now, that is not fully implemented yet. We're working on that. But that is the ultimate objective. And then also, there's about a 1 trillion foreign

Renminbi, it's called CNH deposited offshore in Hong Kong. And that is, you know a very interesting target that they could invest in these types of


So they hope would be to create much more vibrancy in the market, much more liquidity. We also implemented the system of market makers that we make

that the stocks in both the Renminbi counter and the Hong Kong dollar counter is constantly managed in a way so that there's no huge discrepancy

in prices in one counter versus the other.


CHATTERLEY: Yes. So it's about unlocking some of that liquidity and helping clients manage the foreign exchange risk. Ultimately whether they're in the

Mainland or they're holding to your point offshore, Chinese Renminbi CNH with the H in there, specifically.

OK, let's talk about the IPO outlook as well. And as you and I have discussed in the past, the opportunities perhaps for businesses that are

listed elsewhere to have a dual listing in Hong Kong, for example, what's the benefit of a company perhaps that's looking at your listing to come to

Hong Kong.

Rather than say, going to somewhere in Europe to the United Kingdom or the United States as their secondary market? Give us the best reasons for

coming to Hong Kong?

AGUZIN: Yes, thank you, Julia. This is like a very good one, because as of this year and this is something totally new, brand new as of March of this

year. Historically, Hong Kong was a market where mostly international investors would go to invest in mostly Chinese companies.

And as of March of this year, the regulatory bodies in the Mainland, what they did is they are allowing investors from China, from the Mainland, that

this huge set of investors, as I mentioned, that's like 1 trillion Renminbi per day to invest in international companies.

And international companies, the only condition is that they need to be listed in Hong Kong. So that opens a whole world for that investor base

from the Mainland, to be accessible to any company around the world. So a company that lives in Hong Kong can not only have all the investors those

international investors that traditionally invest in New York, in London, or in Hong Kong.

I mean, they're all you know, available, but also the domestic investors that can only invest in the Mainland and in Hong Kong, so you get the best

of both worlds. And you can do this in one international market with like common law and the entire regulatory environment that international

investors and issuers are very used to. So this is very unique, there's no other market in the world that can achieve this.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's an important point to make and it's about connecting the dots for the for the investment opportunity, not without challenges as

we discussed but significant changes taking place. Nicola, come back and talk to us soon please. I always run out of time rather than new questions

to ask you.

Great to have you on Nicola Aguzin there, the CEO of the Hong Kong Exchange and Clearing Limited, sir, thank you.

AGUZIN: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: OK, still to come here on "First Move", forget Reaganomics. The White House wants to switch the conversation to Bidenomics. We'll explain

what that might look like, after this.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move. A little bit of stress, we'll call it caution in early trade on Wall Street this Wednesday as investors await

fresh comments on the state of the global economic outlook from leading central bankers. They're appearing as part of a panel discussion at a

summit in Portugal this hour.

We like the location. Chip stocks, certainly under a bit of stress shares of Nvidia and AMD lower amid reports the Biden Administration is looking to

place export restrictions on artificial intelligence semiconductors sold to China. And finally, a stressful session for bank stock investors, Federal

Reserve stress test results coming out after the closing bell this Wednesday.

They're an important look at how major financial institutions are doing. But the data was collected before the recent stresses and failures of U.S.

regional banks. Those still questions to be asking, in light of that and beyond these tests. Now, Reaganomics is history, Bidenomics is in it's a

centerpiece of President Joe Biden's 2024 re-election campaign.

But what does it actually all mean; expect to hear a lot about ensuring the wealthy pay their fair share of taxes to generate enough revenue to invest

in the middle class. Here's what the White House press secretary had to say about it this week.


KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We believe Reaganomics doesn't work. We've been very clear. We believe that trickle down, trickle

down economy doesn't work. It has not worked. That's shown to be the case for decades now. And so what we have been very clear, you hear me say this

all the time building any colony from the middle out and bottom up. That's what we want to do.


CHATTERLEY: Christine Romans joins us now. The problem is when you start mentioning Bidenomics or Reaganomics, even for your mere -- economists, our

eyes start to glaze over. The biggest challenge here, though, is irrespective of what's going on and what you're announcing and what you're

promising. If the public skeptical and don't think you've done a good job so far, you've got one heck of a hurdle.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: So this is a White House trying to sell this message, right, because for so long, you've been

hearing complaints about Biden inflation. You know, the inflation problem in the economy, inflation is coming down, I mean, 11, straight months of

inflation, slowing. And so we're starting to see some successes, you've got a White House that needs to remind Americans of what they stand for, right,

not the inflation story of 2022.

But they stand for buttressing the middle class. And that's what they say Bidenomics is. You've heard them talk about getting broadband, that

yesterday, a big announcement about getting broadband to the 7 percent of Americans who don't have high speed, internet access, making sure that's

like, you know, electricity in from FDR in the New Deal, trying to lower costs for things, nickel and diming of people, lowering insulin costs and

using the government's power to negotiate for Medicare.

That's where they're trying to remind people of things they've already done that are focused on the middle class. And that's what their whole, total,

you know, this whole Bidenomics idea is. And I'll say, you know, they've got a tough sell here, because the polls show people still stinging from

the COVID crisis and high inflation, and they just don't feel that great about the economy.

One poll, do approve of the way Joe Biden is handling the economy 66 percent disapprove in the most recent CNN poll. So this is the White House

out there trying to show people what we have done, what they have done for the, you know, the kitchen table economics, and that's what they're going

try to sell. The president will be speaking later today in Wisconsin, and he will be delivering that message in person.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, what it's going to come down to is whether inflation is significantly lower and whether the economy can avoid recession, I think

bottom line. Christina, great to have you with us, thank you.

ROMANS: See you.

CHATTERLEY: Christine Romans there. And later on today, Richard Quest will be speaking with Jared Bernstein. He's Chair of the Council of Economic

Advisers on Quest Means Business. Now, we take a little trip to the Seychelles. How about that famous for beautiful beaches, and clear blue


The island nation has been a must visit destination now for decades. But the question is how can you best monetize while protecting one of your most

valuable resources? Eleni Giokos got the tough job. And there's been to find out.



ELENI GIOKOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): When you live on an island, the ocean can be something of an obsession. It's when life happens for many

people. It's a source of income. The term blue economy was born from this. It's a concept where marine resources are used sustainably, while also

promoting economic growth. I've come to meet the man who can help me make sense of it all.

GIOKOS (on camera): For someone like me seeing this beauty, I'm in absolute -- but you're doing something really important. Because many countries that

have resources, you know, it's either oil or its gold, and there's so many other commodities, but your major commodity is that it is the ocean that is

your oil. But you have to preserve it.


GIOKOS (on camera): So tell me about the blue economy and what you do.

BARBE: OK, the blue economy is all about the sustainable use, or the sustainable development of the ocean. This is how it was introduced in in

the country as a pathway towards the creation of jobs through the use of the ocean, the improvement of livelihood of our community through the use

of the ocean, in high consideration given towards the preservation and conservation of the ocean.

So this is what the blue economy it is, for us. It is a combination or an integration, or for the aspect of social development, economic development,

as well as preservation of the ocean.

GIOKOS (on camera): So this is an important part of the economy, right? So you've got to make sure that it's sustainable, and you've got to make it

work. What is the biggest challenge would you say in what you do in making sure that is sustainable?

BARBE: The main challenge in Seychelles right now is some of it has to do with a more capacity. You know, we are very small country and we are a

developing country. And our workforce is, I will say, let's use the word new. And we are evolving and we are still developing.

So our main issue right now it has to do with more capacity. We do not have all the specialized skills that we require to push forward certain specific

development in the country.

GIOKOS (on camera): You know, when I think of the Seychelles, I mean, this is an East African country, basically right as an island on the East

African coast. It's part of COMESA. It has strong African ties as well. When you look at how successful Seychelles has been in terms of tapping

into the blue economy, what would you say the biggest lesson is for other countries wanting to develop their blue economies?

BARBE: The biggest lessons is, is like you need to get your community involved in the development. Some people see development or strategy from

top down strategy and some city from bottom up strategy. But I will say it's a combination.

You need to get your people, your community involved, because they are one of the main factors, and the other one of the main beneficiaries of this

development. Once they are, they understand the blue economy. They understand the contribution of the blue economy in the life, the

contribution of the ocean in their life. This is when they will participate actively in the development.


CHATTERLEY: Coming up after the break, building a future business by harnessing the power of artificial intelligence, we can be speaking to the

startup Databricks about that, to help.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". If you've not heard of ChatGPT or Generative AI in the last few months, well, well dodged, but most

businesses just can't avoid it, whether small or large. The question of how to harness and utilize it to get to competitive edge with clients is key.

Step forward, Databricks.

It's data storage and management startup that's now doing lots of deals that it says will enable clients to build low cost language models trained

on their own data, rather than perhaps taking it from somewhere else. The idea is that it will make the process easier, cheaper and quicker.

The company says it serves over 50 percent of the Fortune 500 companies today. And that includes the likes of AT&T, Shell, and Walgreens and Warner

Brothers discovery, of course, the parent of CNN. And this week, it organized a special data AI summit in San Francisco to discuss the

lightning speed of recent developments, among a few other things.

Ali Ghodsi is the Co -Founder and CEO, and joins us now, Ali; you've clearly been very busy. And we have lots to discuss. But I want to start

simple. And then we can add the layers. What does Databricks provide to its clients today?

ALI GHODSI, CO -FOUNDER & CEO, DATABRICKS: Yes, it's very simple. So this world of AI really only exists, thanks to the data that you feed it. But

believe it or not, the world of data and AI has been separate. So big, large enterprises, they would have to buy separate data software called

data warehousing, and separate AI software called data lakes to make this work.

And what Databricks has done has been able to unify these two so that you can get your data and your AI in one place. And that's all the rage now.

Everyone wants Data and AI together because everybody wants to build their own; you know generative models, large language models and these kinds of


CHATTERLEY: Yes, actually, I'd love to have simply, you've pulled that together, quite frankly, because our regular viewers will know that we talk

about the data requirements to train these AI models and the importance of the accuracy, accuracy of it, and how things can go wrong if you don't have

good quality or tailored data for whatever it is that the purpose that you're doing.

Why is it so simple for you to do this, when we see big companies outsourcing some of the data training and the models to other people? Why

are you able to do this and allow smaller companies and big companies to use their own data to train AI?

GHODSI: It's historical roots of this technology. So this data warehousing technology has its roots in what Oracle used to do. And there was no AI

related to it. The AI technology came out of companies like Google, Facebook, Twitter. And the folks that started Databricks, my co-founders,

we were researchers at UC Berkeley, which receives a lot of its funding in the 2000s, from Silicon Valley Tech Company.

And we got to see what they were doing in the early days. And what they were doing is they were combining the data with the AI and that's how we're

doing these magical things. So we want it to simply just take that, democratize it, bring it to everyone.

So it's just you know, we had slightly different routes, we were sort of rooted in Silicon Valley Tech. Whereas this old, old school data

warehousing comes from, you know, much more older technologies that Oracle, actually frankly had invented.

CHATTERLEY: How many of the companies that you serve, and I understand what you're saying. How enough and the quality of data required to train the AI

systems that they want to give their customers the right products or the right services? Is it as simple as you're making it, I guess is my


GHODSI: They have the data, they have the data. They've been collecting the data for many, many years, 10, 20 years. They haven't necessarily known

what to do with it. But this whole big data era that happened where all these big enterprises, we're collecting large data sets. And then we have

the cloud vendors.

The three cloud vendors, Amazon, Microsoft, Google have been saying for a long time. Hey, everyone needs to move to the cloud, please give us your

data. So that made it really, really cheap to store this data almost for free in the cloud, so as a result lots of people have been storing this



So they have the data, the problem they have are twofold. One, it's the people and organization and process problem. How do you get the existing

organization that you had around for hundred years to revamp it and reorganize it so that they can embrace AI?

The second problem they have is how you get the technology to be much more modern so that they can do these kinds of things, so that we can ask

questions about the future. And not just these data warehousing backwards looking questions where you can ask what was my revenue last week. But

rather ask what it is going to be next week.

CHATTERLEY: OK, but there's loads of different problems and solutions there. The storage of all the data on the cloud, the ability to analyze

that data, the ability then to take that data, train a model and create AI driven products. Are you saying that you provide all of those things in


GHODSI: Absolutely. And with the most recent acquisition that we're announcing at the conference, actually, today, we get the full package and

turn. So everything from we call it A to Z, getting your data in, cleaning it, getting it in good shape, to getting basic insights about the past. So

data warehousing, we can do that.

But also then starting to train your own models, and then start asking them questions about the future. And it turns out, if you want to do it for

specialized tasks. So a lot of large enterprises, they have a specific problem, they want to solve really well. Then the off the shelf model to

ChatGPTs and those things don't work as well. So they have to build their own specific model for that use case. And that's what the latest

acquisition is about. So we're very excited about that.

CHATTERLEY: So who's your most fierce competitor?

GHODSI: I always say it's actually ourselves. If we can continue parading - -

CHATTERLEY: Don't give me the -- response, don't give me the -- response. Who would you say you're out there competing with?

GHODSI: Look, I would say that we --

CHATTERLEY: Microsoft?

GHODSI: If we continue innovating, we will, no, I would not say that. I would actually say that the cloud vendors are our partners. Actually, all

three cloud vendors are investors in Databricks.


GHODSI: And Amazon, Google, Microsoft -- investors. They have competing products, they have sub products that sometimes compete with what we do,

but you would have to stitch them together. And then what we're seeing today is that most of our customers want to be multi cloud, they want to be

in multiple clouds.

So really, it's for us to innovate in this next layer and push the boundaries forward. If we do that, I frankly, don't think there is any

competition. If we, if we, you know, stagnate and we don't continue innovating, yes, then someone else will do that.

CHATTERLEY: OK. What was your response early when we had the industry saying, look, there needs to be a six month development pause. Then a few

weeks ago, we had big industry players, developers, researchers saying that we're headed for AI Armageddon. What was your gut instinct when they said

that? Other than, Oh, my goodness, what does this mean for my business?

GHODSI: Yes, look, the question is this, is, we have to understand what these AI models are doing. And by having open research, and having open

source models, and helping us understand what's going on inside of these AI models, we can actually better align them; better understand what's going

on. If something goes wrong, we'll have all the millions of researchers around the planet that don't understand that.

And for that, we have to democratize this data, and this AI, so that's why we frankly did this acquisition of MosaicML, because they really

democratize so that everyone can build their own. Every organization will be able to build their own machine learning models and understand what's

going on with them.

And then researchers can go in and delve in and see why is it answering it this way? Why is it doing that? The better we understand them, the better

we can deal with it. Right now there are very few companies.

CHATTERLEY: I agree, but why isn't democratizing this and giving everybody access, actually taking a technology that we don't really understand well

enough yet? And I think everybody would agree with that, nor the speed at which it's moving and make it more out of control in the sense because more

people are using it. Ali, what's the best way to regulate this at this stage?

If you don't believe that some kind of Armageddon situation is possible in the future. How do we ensure that we limit the dark side and promote and

innovate the best parts of AI?

GHODSI: Yes, look, so I think that we absolutely should look at regulation, we actually are closely following what they're doing. In Europe it's called

the EU AI Act, in Canada, it's called AIDA, AI DATA Act. These are important. I think, actually, it's more important to look at what are the

use cases where things can go wrong right now, not this Armageddon, sort of, I think that's almost zero probability.

But this sort of, hey, someone wants to use this technology for bad purposes. We should regulate that, we should make it illegal, we should

understand it. But who has the best opportunity to understand what's going on inside these models.

It's the research community worldwide right. If they don't get access to these models, if they don't see what's going on because it's only two three

companies that secretly have the models, and then who knows what's going in?


How would we even know? We might not even know that something went wrong, right. So I think this has to be an open research collaboration that we do.

Then keep in mind, what we are doing is, we're helping enterprises, so we're not doing a consumer product.

It's not a consumer product that million, billions of, you know, kids and anyone and you know, rogue actors can use. What we're doing is, we're

selling this to enterprises, they have very specific use cases. So Rivian, for instance, use our technology inside their Electric Adventure Vehicles.

And they can optimize the battery, they can switch lanes, avoid collisions, or JetBlue can use this technology to communicate with their passengers and

customers of what's going on with delays, which terminal should you go to and sort of guide them through their journey on the claim? That's a very

specific use case; I don't think there's huge dangers with those use cases.

And there are millions of millions of use cases like that, that can make the world a better place that can make us smarter that can help us cure

diseases and sort of raise standard of living. Should we just stop all that?

CHATTERLEY: No, I think is the answer. And you made a great case there. I like your point about the specific use cases, for businesses too, because I

think at times we talk about this in an airy fairy way. And there are practical specific uses that we can get from this.

And we're already seeing it that need to be discussed more. Great to have you on, we'll discuss again soon because clearly, there's so much more to

discuss, as I always say on the show. Ali, great to chat to you for now, thank you, the Founder and the CEO of Databricks, it's great to chat. We're

back after this.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". Imagine waking up to find your one or two years younger than yesterday, we love that. Well that just

happened overnight in South Korea. But it's not a Case of Benjamin Button disease. Millions of South Koreans are now younger after the country

scrapped something called Korean age in favor of the system that most of the world uses. Paula Hancocks explains.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Asking someone in South Korea how old they are is a far more complicated question than you might think. You may

well get three different answers. First of all, there is Korean age where you're considered a year old and the day you're born. And you become a year

older every January 1.

Second, the calendar age you take the current year 2023 minus your birth year, and that is your age. Third International age, the system most

countries use around the world where you start at zero and you become a year older on your birthday. Now South Korea has been using a mixture of

all three systems for decades, that all changes today making international age the standard. Most people woke up this morning one or even two years



LEE SANG-HYEOK, 23 YEARS OLD: I don't feel like my age changed overnight, but talking to my friends, we all felt good about getting younger.


CHOL HYOUNG-SIM, 51 YEARS OLD: On the one hand, I feel good about being younger. And on the other hand, I'm wondering if this will make things more

complicated on paper.


HANCOCKS: These changes to avoid the, "Unnecessary social and economic costs". President Yoon Suk Yeol has been pushing for this change.

And surveys show that the majority of Koreans actually agree that there should be a standardization of age counting. There are some exceptions,

though, for example, going into elementary school, military conscription, we'll still keep to the traditional system.


CHO HEE-KYOUNG, PROFESSOR OF LAW, HONGIK UNIVERSITY: So the change is symbolic because the things that matter to people like when you can vote,

when you can buy alcohol, when you can buy cigarettes, when you can watch, you know, in 17, movies, et cetera, they actually remain exactly the same.


HANCOCKS: It's a change that has been talked about for years, and it is a change that could well confuse for years to come. Paula Hancocks, CNN


CHATTERLEY: Age is just a number. And that's it for the show. "Connect the World" with Becky Anderson is up next and I'll see you tomorrow.