Return to Transcripts main page

First Move with Julia Chatterley

Israel Continues Military Operations in Jenin; Americans Urged to Reconsider Travel to China; Sinkevicius: We Forgot that we need to Take Care of Nature; Eight Injured in Tel Aviv Ramming, Stabbing Attack; Steakholder Foods Unveil 3D-Printed Fish Filet; Retired Tennis Star Roger Federer Speaks to CNN. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired July 04, 2023 - 09:00:00   ET




JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: A warm welcome to "First Move". Great to have you with us for a star spangled holiday edition of the

program. U.S. markets closed for Independence Day but do not display we continue to go forth there's plenty to survey.

On Wall Street stocks still looking spry as we head into July, the major averages ending Monday's shortened session in the green thanks for rallies

in Tesla, and other EV names a Yankee Doodle Dandy year so far for U.S. investors too the best first half protect impact since 1983.

The NASDAQ now up 32 percent since January and Nvidia provide the real fireworks this year up some 190 percent, thanks to all the AI the

artificial intelligence euphoria and another stock cruising ahead Carnival up more than 130 percent.

Investors of all shape and size stars and stripes gearing up for the Q2 earnings parade in just a few weeks' time. And other challenges to flag

include perhaps another Fed rate hike later this month. Plus jobs data this Friday is the labor market still as hot as a holiday barbecue grill.

Well, later in the show we'll be grilling Eric Hoffman the Founder and CEO of Shareholders Food, a pioneer in 3D printed foods. Did you learn can you

see a plate of printed fish or meat in your future Fourth of July or any other holiday for that matter feast?

Maybe lots to chew over to in Europe and Asia today a mixed bag as you can see the Australian Central Bank taking a page from the Fed Chair Jerome

Powell's playbook and announcing a hawkish rate hike pause. No holiday pause though the U.S. China trade tensions.

The Wall Street Journal says the U.S. is set to restrict Chinese access to U.S. cloud services. A possible blow to Amazon and Microsoft all this as

China restricts exports of metals used in chip and electric car production, an interesting time indeed for Treasury Secretary Yellen's to trip to


That's expected to begin on Thursday. As you can see lots to get to as always on the show but we do begin with the latest from Israel, and at

least eight people have been injured after a car struck pedestrians at the shopping center in Tel Aviv.

Police say the driver then left the vehicle and began attacking people before an armed civilian killed him. It comes as an Israeli military

operation in the City of Jenin continues for a second straight day. Israel's largest defensive in the West Bank in more than 20 years and

joining us now Elliott Gotkine. Elliott, good to have you with us I believe in the last few moments Hamas have claimed responsibility for that attack

in Tel Aviv what more can you tell us?

ELLIOTT GOTKINE, JOURNALIST: Well, this attack in Tel Aviv happened just kind of far northeast of Tel Aviv. And the car as you were saying the car

was driven according to the IDF was driven by someone from a town net near Hebron in the West Bank that he drive into this bus stop and you can see

the kind of mangled ruins of this car.

And then also looking over some of the people that was a bike lane where there were people biking and scooting past and then got out of the car and

then began trying -- began stabbing people. So some quite graphic security camera footage that we've seen, which shows almost the entirety of the

attack, playing out and then chased after people as they were kind of running away from the attacker.

So that's what happened there. There are eight injuries as you say they're all in hospital. And I don't think it's necessarily a surprise that there

was an attack of this nature in the wake of this ongoing operation by Israel into Jenin Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I was going to say to you no surprise, perhaps in response to what we're seeing. Earlier today we had the IDF saying that they had ten

more sites to search in Jenin. Do we have any sense of progress of how far they've got in this operation and how long it might last?

GOTKINE: How long it might last is how long piece of strength Julia is. They said it could last a few more hours that could last another day. We

really do not know it is an open ended operation. They did say there were ten more targets.

They specified that were -- they were infrastructure targets. It's been targeting to begin with when this operation began almost 40 hours ago. It

was a UAV strike on what he described as a command and control post used by the militants of the Jenin brigades were affiliated with Islamic Jihad.

They said that this post was also used as an observation post and also as a refuge for militants after carrying out attacks, they would flee back

there. So that was the first target and Israel says that it took the militants in Jenin in by surprise with that since then it says been

discovering and destroying and or confiscating weapons storage facilities weapons manufacturing sites and also confiscating things such as grenade

launchers, and the like.


And I'm sure you've seen these -- we've seen these quite graphic images of Israeli bulldozers kind of tearing up the streets of the Jenin refugee

camp. It says in order to get rid of improvised explosive devices. Indeed, it says just a short while ago that destroyed 11 IEDs, which were posing a

danger to its troops and also to civilians.

The water and electricity supply was also cut. Israel says that it was working with the Palestinian Authority or coordinating with it to try to

get that resumed. But as you say, the death toll so far 10 Palestinians. Israel says that almost all of them are militants, or in fact, all of them

were either militants or were in some capacity involved in attacks against their troops. They say that no one involved civilians were killed.

And on top of that we know from the Palestinian Ministry of Health there are about hundred injured about 20 of those critical and we've seen those

pictures as well of about 3000 Palestinians leaving their homes in the Jenin refugee camp to get out of harm's way moving either to other parts of

the camp or to Jenin proper.

Now we've seen condemnations from the Palestinian Authority from the Jordanians, Egyptians, and the Emiratis. The United States, for its part

has said that it -- well it reiterated its support for Israel's right to defend itself, and highlighted the need to ensure that there were no

civilian casualties.

But of course, the longer this goes on, and as I say, we are now in the 40th hour, almost 40 hours since this began, the longer it goes on, the

greater the risk of escalation not just in Jenin and other parts of the West Bank but also in other parts where Israel borders whether it's Gaza,

Lebanon or Syria, no doubt Israel is prepared for all eventualities. But of course, as time goes on, the risks will grow too Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Elliott, good to have you with us. Thank you for that report. Elliott Gotkine there! Now Russia is accusing Ukraine of launching a

terrorist attacks in Kyiv targeted Moscow with five drones earlier this morning.

The Kremlin says all the drones were intercepted, and there were no casualties. Matthew Chance joins us now. Matthew, as expected to the

Ukrainians sticking to the usual playbook here and no comment from them on this?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they haven't made any comment. And I've reached out to sort of groups who operate inside

of Russia as well, who are against the Kremlin, and they've not commented on it either.

But it's another example of how the war in Ukraine is coming home to roost as it were inside Russia itself. We saw drone attacks taking place in May.

One spectacular one, of course, that actually hit the domes on top of a building inside the walls of the Kremlin. They were suburbs of Moscow that

were also hit.

And when you add to that the events that were really dramatic last month, the attempted military uprising in Russia, led by the Wagner Leader Yevgeny

Prigozhin. Then again, it just shows you that you know Russia looks increasingly unstable.

And that will be noticed, of course, by ordinary citizens in the country that up until this period had really been pretty much insulated from the

events that we're folding next door, the conflict of special military operation as the Russians call it inside Ukraine.

CHATTERLEY: Matthew, interesting, as you're speaking to your contacts to get a sense of this. Are they expecting to see more attempts like this more

drone attacks to your point about what appears to be an increasing level of vulnerability despite the fact that you would have expected the Kremlin I

think to guard itself better in light of what we saw with that drone attack several weeks ago?

CHANCE: Well, I mean, those contexts aren't commenting specifically on that. But I think we can all sort of expect that these kinds of attacks are

going to be a sort of feature of what's coming. You know, we've seen in May, again, that attack on the Kremlin.

We've seen an incursion as well, by Russian partisans; people are identified as Russian citizens moving into areas near the -- across the

border from Ukraine as well in carrying out attacks there. And so while this battle is raging, with Ukraine's counter offensive underway, inside

Ukraine proper on the frontlines there.

We are seeing these other operations take place inside Russia. And I think that's become a feature and will continue to be a feature of this ongoing

sort of military campaign by Ukraine, and its sympathizers inside Russia.

CHATTERLEY: Matthew Chance, great to have you with us. Thank you. Now Russian President Vladimir Putin at this moment has made a return to the

world stage at the Shanghai Cooperation Organization Summit. Addressing the virtual meeting this morning he thanked supportive nations and said Russia

is united after the Wagner rebellion.


VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT: The Russian people are consolidated as never before the solidarity and high responsibility for the fate of the

Fatherland was clearly demonstrated by Russian political circles and the entire society by coming out as a united front against the attempted armed




CHATTERLEY: Marc Stewart joins us now. Marc a key moment for Putin among key allies, those that haven't condemned the war in Ukraine and

increasingly important trade partners too. But I would also argue, a delicate balancing act for the likes of Xi Jinping of China, also Prime

Minister Modi of India to having just been courted in the United States, friends, but not too friendly.

MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Balancing act another phrase that we've been using in our reporting today Julia has been complex backdrop. I mean,

all of these nations, China, India, Russia, they all certainly want to show their strength particularly toward the west to show that they have some

political muscle.

Yet there is this line where you know, they can't push things too much, because there is some dependence or some need to have somewhat cordial for

lack of better words, discussions with the West when you mentioned China and Xi Jinping.

I mean, right now, China, as we both know, as students of China, China is facing a very precarious economic situation. So it is leaning on the West,

it is getting ready for a visit by Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen.

Yet it's also not directly condemning Russia. It's trying to figure out, for lack of better words, the sweet spot, President Xi or Chinese Leader Xi

did address the organization during its opening meeting today. Let me just share with you some of the phrasing that was used, because I think that

also proves an important point.

Xi said today, the world is full of chaos and changes unseen in a century are accelerating. Human society is facing unprecedented challenges, unity

or division, peace or conflict, cooperation, or confrontation, a series of rhetorical questions, to basically bring up this broader point of the need

for win-win cooperation, if you will.

Despite all of these statements, though, there is no question that China is going to be very resolute in its approach to all of this, Russia, and China

and Russia are two of the organs -- two the nations along with Former Soviet Republics that formed this SCO Alliance this Shanghai Cooperative


So expect them to stay to script. But to go back to this phrase, Julia, as you brought up before balancing act, it's just a political necessity in

this current global landscape.

CHATTERLEY: Absolutely. And we're just showing images actually, of when they got together back in 2019, easier to perhaps enact that delicate

balancing act virtually rather than in person. Marc Stewart, thank you for that.

And on to a warning from the United States regarding travel to China; the State Department urging Americans to reconsider visiting the Mainland due

to the risk of wrongful detention. Relations between the United States and China remain frosty despite Secretary of State Antony Blinken's trip to

Beijing last month.

Blinken said he mentioned the three Americans he says China has wrongfully detained Kai Li, Mark Swidan and David Lin and said talks are taking place

to try and secure their release. Kylie Atwood joins us now. Kylie, we will assume that Janet Yellen's trip this week to Beijing is excluded from that

warning. Why the shift?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN U.S. SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Listen, we really don't know the answer as to why this wrongful detention has been listed on this travel

advisory as one of the reasons to reconsider travel to China.

But when you read into this actual travel advisory itself, it provides a little bit of hints and essentially you know demonstrates that the United

States believes that Chinese authorities are cracking down more aggressively on U.S. citizens and foreign nationals.

And it says that PRC authorities appear to have broad discretion to deem a wide range of documents, data statistics or materials, as state secrets and

use that information that U.S. foreign nationals, American citizens might have to actually detain them.

And so while they don't get into a specific incident here that has triggered this, they're basically saying that there is a movement towards

crackdown on U.S. citizens that could be dangerous for Americans traveling to China.

Now, previously, wrongful detention had been listed as a reason essentially for Americans to be cognizant when they traveled to China to exercise

increased caution, but not a reason that they should reconsider travel. So it's significant that it's now being listed in that bucket of reasons.


CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's a step up in terms of a cautionary response. Can I ask about the U.S. response to what effectively looks like a bounty placed

on the head of certain individuals accused of offenses under the relatively new national security law in Hong Kong.

Now, my understanding is many of these individuals, they're abroad, the United States, UK, Canada, Australia, and they're OK where they are, but if

they go home, they're clearly at risk of arrest.

ATWOOD: Yes. Well, the State Department Spokesperson Matt Miller came out very clearly yesterday and condemned these bounties being placed on the

heads of these activists who have spoken out against Beijing's crackdown in Hong Kong, and said that the United States is calling for them to

immediately revoke these boundaries.

Now, it's important to note that the extradition treaty that the U.S. used to have with Hong Kong has actually been gotten rid of by the United States

because of the laws that have been enacted in Hong Kong recently, when it has to do with national security.

So it's not as if the United States is legally required to send any of these activists back to Hong Kong or Beijing. But it's very significant

that the United States feels in this statement, that this is a crackdown on human rights globally.

They don't think that Hong Kong should be doing this should be seeking millions of dollars for these activists who are, you know, using freedom of

speech around the globe to speak up against Beijing's crackdown in Hong Kong?

We'll watch and see where this one goes. But the State Department you know, putting out this statement demonstrates just how closely they are tracking

what Hong Kong is doing right now.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and the suspension of the extradition treaty crucial in this too. Kylie, great to have you with us. Thank you, Kylie Atwood there.

Coming up here on "First Move", nature nurture the European Union discussing a bold new plan to help protect and restore biodiversity. But is

it a regulatory step too far for some? Plus, making waves; how one company is trying to reel you in with 3D printed fish and more is coming up. Stay

with us.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". Crunch time of sorts for Europe's big green dream the EU Parliament next week decides the fate of a bold new

plan called in "Nature Restoration Law".


It's aimed is to restore nature on 20 percent of EU land and sea by 2030. Just to give you a sense of these specific targets include improving and

re-establishing bio diverse habitats. Reversing the decline of pollinating insects like bees, restoring marine habitats, such as sea grass beds.

Now, if it becomes law, each EU country will then have to come up with its own plan of action within around two years to ultimately hit those targets

in 2030. Now, opposition groups including members of the conservative European People's Party are calling for a delay, and an assessment of the

impact on sectors like farming and food production.

My next guest says Europe cannot afford to wait. And joining us now is Virginijus Sinkevicius European Commissioner for the Environment, Oceans,

and Fisheries. Commissioner, great to have you on the show! Explain why it's so important for Europe to pass this law?


pleasure. So to begin with, the nature is essential, if we all signed for ambitious climate objectives. In Paris, we see alarming scientists at

alarming about the climate change it cannot be solved without nature being able to help us.

If we lose natural ecosystems, our forests, soils, or oceans, we are still bust even if we reach zero, full de-carbonization by 2050. So it's

essential as regards fighting climate change. Secondly, when we talk about our food security, none, no farmers can or won't work on soils that are not


On grounds that are not pollinated by pollinators. So these essential nature functions, we take it for granted. And I think sometimes we forget

that we need to take care of nature. Because even if you look at the numbers, not environmental numbers, but numbers that comes from the

businesses, World Economic Forum.

50 percent of the world's GDP depends on nature, especially food sector, of course, construction, and etcetera. So it's vital for our climate

aspiration is vital for our economies, too.

CHATTERLEY: I think and I couldn't agree more with you on the depletion of elements like soil, and that making our farming and our food processes that

much harder, and it will only I think, get more difficult. But some of the pushback has come from the farming industry, from the agricultural industry

from Fisher men and women.

Do you understand their concerns? Because I think the primary concern here is that even in the short term, never mind the long term, we'll talk about

the short term, this could cost jobs, can you promise that it won't cost jobs?

SINKEVICIUS: I think any change, always bring in anxiety, and we are living not an easy period. We just had COVID, where for example, fishers they were

left without a possibility to sell the fish at the auctions. And then we have devastating illegal, unjustified Russia's attack on Ukraine, which

puts additional pressure on society.

But what's most important that this legislation as no obligations for individuals, neither for pharma, nor for the fisher or forester. On

contrary, these people and their business model purely depends on natural ecosystems. And if we lose fertility of soil, or we lose our ecosystems in

our oceans and Pristine Seas, farmers and fishers are the first ones left without a business model because they directly depend on ecosystem values.

So I think overall, they are the only ones that have first of all, to gain and ensure longevity of their businesses. There were many twisted messages,

of course obligations, we had to discuss it with member states and I think we have arrived to a very suitable compromise which member states of the

council now supported.


So I think we are on track to ensure that we are able to have a strong legislation that first of all yes it protects and helps to restore nature

but most importantly it protects people who benefits from nature.

CHATTERLEY: So the last vote that was held was completely deadlocked. What you're saying now is you're quietly confident that you think this law can

pass that you've reached a compromise that can work for all.

SINKEVICIUS: We reached the compromise at the at the council, and I, of course, cannot preempt the position of the European Parliament, they are

still in discussions, but I truly hope that Parliament will build on council position, because Council, it's 27 Member States.

So Member States, they very clearly outlined that they are happy with the current compromise, and they can live with that. So they can implement it,

despite you know, the debates that we have had commission put the additional compromise non paper, which I think worked well, but we should

not forget one more important detail.

European Union was, together with the Member State driving force at the cop 15 in Montreal, where we have reached a global agreement, global

biodiversity framework. And in that framework, nature restoration is also featured. And I think, you know, when it comes to a leadership, first of

all, you have to deliver that leadership at home.

And then, of course, work with other partners to ensure that those global agreements are delivered. So I truly hope that we will stick with what we

have agreed what we kind of supported, and were the driving force behind. And then of course, we will be able to help other parts of the world to

implement a global agreement too.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I hope you're right. And I agree with you on the leadership at home. The problem is you have to show leadership and get

reelected. And I think we are sort of seeing a green sort of backlash, and its compromising votes to some extent, and its compromising coalition.

So I do think he does have this sort of delicate balancing act to find between pushing the things that are right for the planet, and also in the

short term, after seven very challenging years since 2015 and protecting people too. And I know you'll say the same thing. But it's, it's a



CHATTERLEY: I want to ask you about China, if you don't mind.


CHATTERLEY: And China's decision to restrict exports of gallium and germanium and I believe that EU get 71 percent of gallium 45 percent, of

germanium from China. And these are crucial to semiconductor telecommunications and EV vehicle development, the batteries. How worried

are you by those limits and the kind of impact that they may have?

SINKEVICIUS: I think it was very clear from the very beginning of first of all -- sent a very clear signal that our supply chains are vulnerable. And

we need to diversify, especially when we talk about crucial components, materials that we don't have in the EU. And solutions here, they are very

limited that what you can do, you can enhance circularity.

So basically what you have already here, within the production, you need to use it up to a maximum and ensure that it can be then collected and

recycled and reused as recycled content again, and diversify your supply chains as much as you can de risk it from being dependent on a single

source as much as possible.

Third option is very limited in the EU is of course, opening some mines were there are such opportunities, but they are extremely, extremely

limited. And there is very little economic viability yet to that.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I'm just imagining the environmentalist's response to that one. That last one. Commissioner, I think the important point here is

recycling is what we have to make use of what we have and continue to build an infrastructure that enables us to recycle what we have so we can keep

using it.

I'm out of time. Please come back when you get this law passed. Not that we're pre-empting anything and we'll talk about the positive impacts.

Commissioner, thank you once again there, great to chat to you.

SINKEVICIUS: Thank you. Thank you very much for having me.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you. Coming up on "First Move", the latest in Tel Aviv for a car hit a group of people at a shopping center, our live report next.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", on returning to one of our top stories today at least eight people injured after a car drove into

pedestrians at a shopping center in Tel Aviv. Police say the driver then left his vehicle and began stabbing people before an armed civilian then

killed him.

It comes is Israel's military operation in the City of Jenin continues for a second straight day. It's the largest Israeli offensive in the West Bank

in more than 20 years. Hadas Gold joins us now from Tel Aviv. Hadas, I can see that cleanup operation was taking place behind you there but the damage

to what looks like a bus stop clear behind you too. Walk us through what happened?

HADAS GOLD, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we are in Northwest Tel Aviv where this attack took place about 3, 4 hours ago. And right now the

authorities are still cleaning up the scene. I like to clean up these things quite quickly.

Israeli police saying that a truck that you can actually see it's being loaded right now on a tow truck and being towed out of here, you can still

see quite a bit of the damage on its windshield and on a truck but bumper nearly entirely ripped off. They say that that truck came up across upon

the pavement slamming into pedestrians that were near this bus stop right here that has also sustain quite a bit of damage.

And then the attacker got out of the truck and began trying to stab people. Israeli police telling me that an armed civilian actually an elderly man

who happened to be our heard the noise turned around and shot and killed the attacker. Now Hamas the militant group has claimed the attacker as one

of their fighters.

And Israeli defense official telling me that he crossed over to Tel Aviv from the occupied West Bank now, as soon as this happened, the military

group Hamas taking credit or praising this operation saying it's in direct response to what's been happening in Jenin, of course, we're in the second

day of the largest Israeli military operation in the occupied West Bank since 2002.

And while overnight has been less dramatic as perhaps 24 hours before Israeli military saying that they are reaching every corner of Jenin

because they say they want to essentially reform Jenin from becoming a hornet's nest for what they call militants activity.


And they say that this operation could continue for another day potentially even more. But what that's meant for the civilians there is that their

lives are completely disrupted. Roads are completely torn up. Houses, cars are damaged, electricity and water supply has been affected there.

And thousands of Palestinians overnight have fled the refugee camp trying to seek safer ground. Here in Tel Aviv, we know of at least eight people

who have been injured as a result of this attack. One of them critically police are calling it a terror attack.

And it is clearly connected to what's been happening in Jenin that Israeli military, Israeli officials say will not be ending at least potentially

today and then it could go on for another few days until they leave they breached what they say are all of their objectives, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Hadas Gold there, thank you for that. OK, coming up here on "First Move", something a little fishy on our Fourth of July holiday, --

this year. We'll introduce you to the company's scaling culinary heights between the printed fish and -- , that's next.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move". You've heard about plant based meats and lab grown food plenty of times on this show. But what about

edible bio ink from a printer? Well, that's just part of the technology behind it stakeholder foods. The Israel based bio-tech Company and a

Singaporean cellular agriculture startup called Umami Meats have launched the first lab grown fish filet using 3d printing techniques.

That's what you're looking at here. Now, just to give you a sense, stakeholders ready to cook printer, produces a hybrid product made from

cultivated and plant based ingredients. Then there's also the 3d printer that the food tech industry is calling the Holy Grail.

Now it's designed to produce a product that requires live cells to grow and mature to form a texture and taste that's actually quite similar to real

meat apparently. Now, the filet at least is already creating some excitement and stakeholder says we could see 3d printed meat which cost

parity with traditional products by 2028.

So we're talking what five years. OK, let's get the scoop. Joining us now is Arik Kaufman. He's the Founder and CEO of Stakeholder Foods. Sir, great

to have you on the show that was a lot of information, so let's just take a step back. Just give me the vision of the company first and foremost, where

are you headed? And then we'll work backwards.


ARIK KAUFMAN, FOUNDER & CEO OF STEAKHOLDER FOODS: So our vision is to create real meat without stalling animals. So we have two assumptions. One

assumption is that people will continue and consume meat, because that's what we are used to do for forever. And the second question is that we need

to create meat in a different more up to date way. And our printers that we've developed can do exactly that. It can create real meat, it without --

the animals.

CHATTERLEY: OK, this is a third whacking great assumption in there. And that is that people are going to be willing to eat as sort of meat

substitute. And I know you're saying it comes from animal cells, but sort of the process, the concept behind this is interesting, alarming. Are you

happy to make that assumption?

KAUFMAN: I think that the whole process which creating cultivated meat is a very transparent process. We know exactly from where the cell is collected,

we know exactly what it undergoes. And third, let's print it and it enters our plate, we are creating real meat. So it's not a substitute.

It's not something that smells like, it is the real deal. I think that the market acceptance at the beginning will have its learning curve. But when

one will understand the benefits of this product and the taste, I think it's the right way that in the future, we will consume it.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. OK, so let's talk about the technology then. Talk to me about the composition of what goes into the bio ink that's then used to

print this fish and meat.

KAUFMAN: So the whole process is tailored, there's software that can determine exactly the composition of the product. So we can, for instance,

decide if it will be fatter inside less protein inside. We integrate real cells that were grown, that were proliferated into our printers into the

bio ink itself, which is unique bio ink, because it can adapt itself to different species.

And then it's printed in a commercial scale to product that tastes and looks exactly the same as the fish that we are used to eat today.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, it's quite incredible. There are two types of printers that are ready to cook printer, which I'm assuming is not that

we're showing on the screen now, which actually looks like a sort of official piece of meat that actually came from a live animal. The Holy

Grail, as we've described, it is one that actually you can start adjusting for flakiness for marbling, for example, in beef products. How close to

that are we?

KAUFMAN: So as every new this disruptive technology, it's time that the reason that they are ready to cook printers, because the technology level

has not reached the point of prosperity and prosperity, to produce steak that are as the steaks that we are used to consuming restaurants.

So the ready to cook products, they print products that don't need to go under an incubation process. If you take for instance a cow, when it is

born, it takes a few years until it grows, and until it's loaded. So the ready to cook products, they print the cow at the beginning of this


It will take a few years in order for us to reach a point that we can produce printers that will commercially scale products that are exactly the

same one other percent cultivated meat, but we are on the way we've 3d printed the largest steak ever printed a few years ago. And I think that

the level that we've reached today with the fish products is the highest you can get.

CHATTERLEY: Wow, that's a bold claim. Give me a sense of the cost ratio at this moment. How much more expensive steak for steak is the fully created

steak that you're seeing right now. It's just not there in terms of cost parity relative to just buying a steak off the shelf in a supermarket

today, like how many times greater is the cost today?

KAUFMAN: -- traded company, the -- I cannot disclose information that was not disclosed to the brought to the public. But the industry talks about

2028 as the year that the industry will reach price parity. We'll see at masters these advanced cultivated products in the in the market.

We see I assume soon products and restaurants. But we'll be talking about a few years after 20 this whole cultivated meat industry will be a very

significant one as part of the larger meat industry.

CHATTERLEY: What about regulation, Arik? What are the regulators saying to you and I'm mean, I know Singapore is really hot on this I know in Israel

as well. There's a huge focus on promoting this kind of technology and fostering this because we do need to find meat alternatives in the future.


We simply can't continue the way that we have and I think there is general acceptance of that. What about regulation?

KAUFMAN: I think the most significant hurdle was the United States. The U.S. market is the most significant one. And then a few days ago, to come

up places have received an approval to begin to sell their products already in the United States. So I think that's the most significant milestone that

this whole cultivated the meat industry has reached.

And I assume that after we saw the United States legitimize this industry, we will see additional leading countries join, -- regulating this

cultivated meat industry.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and that's a big market for you guys. And there was a lot of excitement about two or three years ago about the meat alternatives or

the plant based food. And then we seem to see a sort of dip in interest and people lost faith, the cost of it, the concerns about it not being clean


I think another big concern, Arik, where are you today? And how was your conversation with investors evolved, as the perception I think is evolved

of this industry?

KAUFMAN: So I think it's a natural process, the plant based products are there for decades it's not something new. I think that the most significant

understanding of the plant based products is one that it's not in the -- large populations people at the end are used and want to eat real meat.

And I think that the fact that now we will see more advanced products entering the market. Products that are plant based, but they will contain

certain ingredients that are cultivated, it will assumedly make these products healthier, because we will take out the less the palm oil and

other ingredients will jump up.

So it will replay real cultivated meat. So I think that investors I think that in the next few months once we will begin to see products entering the

market, I think that the investors will understand what a huge revolution this whole cultivated meat industry will be.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. And we just saw images of Prime Minister Netanyahu trying it as well. And he seemed pretty pleased with it as well, sir, looking

forward to try to get this myself. Arik, great to have you on, thank you so much for chatting to us today, the Founder and CEO of Stakeholder Foods.

KAUFMAN: Thank you for having me.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you. OK, coming up here on "First Move", Meta versus Musk will take you inside the ring for a real live cage fight the very future of

social media could be at stake.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", the gloves are well and truly off in the Musk versus Zuckerberg billionaire Brawl, the two tech bosses

promising to meet in the ring for a Las Vegas cage fight actually promise but anyway, a more consequential face off may soon be on the cards too.

As Meta moves a Twitter competitor called threads, there is no one better to discuss this than Anna Stewart. And of course my-self, if we're talking

about brawling, Anna, it's perfect for us. Talk to me about what we expect from threads because for me the interesting, the most interesting parts of

this is the 2 billion what user base that Instagram has that they have instantaneously, should they choose it when they begin?

ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: I mean, that is definitely going to help from what we've seen from what's being teased for threads, which will launch on

Thursday, we're told it looks and feels a lot like Twitter, whether it's the interface or the functionality. Hey, imitation is the highest form of

flattery, isn't it?

And isn't the first social media copycat we've seen whether it was Instagram reels, which felt a lot like TikTok, or even Twitter itself

earlier this year announcing it would launch encrypted messaging and phone calls, which sounds a little like WhatsApp. But spreads I think will be an

interesting one for two reasons.

You mentioned the user base. Already this is working off Instagram. It has 2 billion monthly active users on Instagram. So that makes this a very

different sort of copycat in that sense. Secondly, it's all about timing. And right now given that Twitter is at a huge transitional period, and not

everyone to put it mildly thinks, it's going all that well. While there may be plenty of Twitter users who are ripe for the picking.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, we've seen all sorts of alternatives pop up Mastodon, Bluesky. So people definitely feel that there's, I think opportunity in the

air perhaps at this moment. I guess one of my big questions is if you're looking at the two of these leaders, these two businesses and the changes

that we've seen.

Do you trust Mark Zuckerberg more than you trust Elon Musk at this moment if you're using his platform and your data as well? Anna, what do you


STEWART: Trust is it, trust is a valuable asset with social media and Meta lost a lot of it in recent years, particularly following the Cambridge

analytic a scandal that many will still remember, in 2018. I remember interviewing the CTO of Meta, a year ago and he said, Trust arrives on foot

and leaves on horseback.

It will take a long time for Meta to build that back up. That certainly seems to be the strategy from Twitter fans. Today, even this from Jack

Dorsey who posted with a bit of a typo, I'd say all your threads belong to us. And it lists some of the data parameters that threads will be able to

access and share and link to users potentially.

But frankly, that is something that already exists with Instagram. So if you're targeting Instagram users will they're already clearly accepting the

level of data use that Meta has access too.


STEWART: So, it's an interesting one, but yes, trust is important here.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and is Zuckerberg going to pretend stop the scraping in the way that Elon Musk and Twitter's tried to do with them consequences

this past week who wins the cage fight, Anna? Who's your money on?

STEWART: Oh, my money. I think it's on Elon Musk, even though I would say he's possibly less fit. --

CHATTERLEY: I was talking about social media.

STEWART: Oh come on talk me about --

CHATTERLEY: I love -- actual cage fight.

STEWART: -- more importantly who -- Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Exactly. We would never fight, Anna -- definitely win. She's still smiling, you're laughing? Yes. Oh, now we've done it -- . Catch me

first -- . Anna Stewart, thank you for that. Running to tennis, Retired tennis Great Roger Federer is taking center stage at once again, in more

ways than one he's being honored today at a ceremony in Wimbledon, where he won 8 of his 20 Grand Slam titles.

Federer also having a ball a few days ago to at a Coldplay concert, in Zurich, take a look at this, he was announced as a special guest. Federer

is saying in an exclusive interview with CNN's Christina Macfarlane that he's enjoying his time away from center court.


ROGER FEDERER, 20-TIME GRAND SLAM WINNER: I think because I show up in completely different random places nowadays. You know that some people are

really surprised or very happy then to all of a sudden see me. I mean, I've had a moment when I did Orient Express I was in Venice and a guy chased me

down he was like, can I please take a picture?

I'm like, yes, are you who I think you are? I'm like, no, I don't know who you think I am. Because like, oh you Nadal. I'm like, I'm so sorry I'm not

here now. So I kept on walking and the guy looked at me goes such a pity -- Nadal. But he kept looking back at it I thought he was going to maybe

figure it out. But he didn't get so that was a quiet --


FEDERER: He missed his moment but he clearly did get a picture with me what are the pics with Rafa but anyway, so I have obviously moments like these

are -- like yesterday when I went to the Coldplay concert.


MACFARLANE: This kind of came out of nowhere Southern Europe on stage for me -- . How did that come about?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The greatest tennis player of all time Mr. Roger Federer.

FEDERER: Saturday night, Chris Martini writes, and he goes, like, do you want to come and help us with one of the songs? You know, I'm like, really?

I don't know. And I was sitting at dinner and I read the message to my wife, my two daughters and some friends. And they're like, oh my god, you

got to do it.

And Myla, my daughter looks at me goes like, Papa, go, you only live once. And I'm like, really? Like, I should be 50,000 people. And I don't even

know what I'm going to do. And then I'm like, you know what, Chris, I'll do it. What do you want me to do? All you got to do is do the shaker you know,

give a beat to the song. So I finished my music career on top because I just retired from music as well, the last night.


CHATTERLEY: His short career he's very sweet. Federer, who announced his retirement last year, was being honored on the second day of this year's

Wimbledon Championships. And finally -- phone home, wow, well like paging Mars after two months of radio silence. NASA's ingenuity helicopter is

talking once again.

The helicopter has been on Mars for two years and made more than 50 flights. But in the middle of its latest mission back in April, contact was

lost. Ingenuity finally phoned home last week, easing concerns about what had become of it so definitely phoning home. That's it for the show.

"Connect the World" is up next. We'll see you tomorrow.