Return to Transcripts main page

First Move with Julia Chatterley

Biden: Ukraine not ready for NATO Membership; Six People Killed in Kindergarten Attack in China; Biden Wraps up UK Visit, Meets King and PM; Rivian, Meta Shares Higher in Early Trading; Ukrainian FM: NATO Agrees to Speed up Application Process; U.S. Senator Urges Investigation into Energy Drink. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired July 10, 2023 - 09:00   ET



ZAIN ASHER, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: A warm welcome to "First Move". I'm Zain Asher in for my colleague Julia Chatterley. Just ahead on today's show

Windsor welcome; U.S. President Joe Biden is in the UK for the start of his European trip meeting with King Charles and Windsor Castle before heading

to a NATO Summit in Lithuania.

Biden also tape telling CNN that it's too early it's too soon to let Ukraine join NATO. We are live with the very latest plus, Moscow meeting

the Kremlin thing that President Putin held talks with Wagner Leader Yevgeny Prigozhin five days after the aborted march on Moscow, a top

Russian General surfacing for the first time as well since the insurrection.

And superpower reset Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen wrapping up 10 hours of high level talks in Beijing. No major breakthroughs reported though but

promises of more dialogue to come on global market. A cautious open on top the U.S. stocks after last week's across the board pullback.

European markets in the green after a mixed Asian handover HANG SENG and SHANGHAI finishing the session with gains but new signs of Chinese economic

weakness. Producer prices falling at the fastest pace in more than eight years consumer prices coming in flat, raising fresh deflationary concerns

so much to get through this Monday.

I want to begin though with President Biden's trip to the UK. Joe Biden said looking to bolster the so called special relationship between Britain

and the United States. Right now he is in Windsor meeting King Charles III for the first time since the Royal Coronation.

There was a lot of pomp a lot of ceremony as they took part in the inspection of the honor guard. As you see from these pictures the pair is

going to be discussing climate change among other issues as well but climate change being the main one.

Earlier the President met with Prime Minister Rishi Sunak at Downing Street to talk about Ukraine ahead of tomorrow's key NATO Summit in Lithuania.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is stepping up his efforts to join the military alliance before the meeting.


VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: We are working with our partners. We are working on security guarantees. But we are also working on helping

our partners to make some conclusions for this upcoming NATO Summit meeting. And we would like to have all the decisions to be made during the


In this case, it's obvious that I'll be there and I'll be doing whatever I can in order to so to speak, expedite that solution to have an agreement

with our partners. I don't want to go to the news for fun which of the decision has been made beforehand.


ASHER: What an exclusive interview with CNN before his trip, President Biden said that Ukraine is not ready for NATO membership.


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I don't think there is unanimity in NATO about whether or not to bring Ukraine into the NATO

family now at this moment in the middle of a war.


ASHER: Nic Robertson joins us live now. So just in terms of President Biden meeting with Rishi Sunak, just walk us through how much division there is

in terms of the timeline of Ukraine joining NATO, if there is a fast track way for Ukraine to join NATO and also the issue of cluster munitions, as


NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: The issue of cluster munitions did come up and it was always going to come up because there was

-- they both have different views. Countries have taken different positions. The U.S. is not a signatory to the Convention on Cluster


And President Biden took that decision just before the weekend to send cluster munitions to Ukraine because they are very short of munitions they

need that are available to send. The UK and many other countries that are allied with the United States are signatories to that convention.

It's a convention that say you can't produce or provide or even encourage others to use and to that point, going into the meeting today at Downing

Street. Rishi Sunak was asked if it was going to raise the issue of cluster munitions.

And afterwards his press spokesman said yes, during the 40 minute or so conversation, it did come up and the Prime Minister kept good to his part

of the convention. This is what the spokesman said to discourage the use of cluster munitions.


However, that said the spokesman also went on to say that the UK understands or Rishi Sunak understands it does pick up position and the

difficult decision that it was for President Biden. I think when it comes to Ukraine and speed of it becoming a member of NATO, there is more

alignment there.

President Biden, cautious, the UK has been pretty forward leaning on supporting Ukraine, the first to sort of lead the way with thanks, the

first to lead the way with training air force pilots on F-16. They've taken many steps like that.

But I think when it comes to what the next step is, there seems to be a better alignment, which is providing a concrete plan of military support

and economic support that lead to security guarantees going forward. It's a little bit late what is in place now, but a stronger formula to it.

And I think there's a sense from the Ukrainians despite what President Zelenskyy said, his Foreign Minister today has said, OK, we think NATO is

giving us something of a shortcut, making a reference to the April 2008 NATO Summit in Bucharest where the decision was that Ukraine and Georgia

would have to follow the MAP a process of alignment with NATO.

Ukraine understands that it's not going to have to go through that process. But the issue, of course, is that Ukraine still needs to reform its

institutions and have a stronger democratic civilian control over the military to align itself with NATO military structures, never mind the

military components that go towards fighting a war.

ASHER: And despite the sort of differences, especially when it comes to cluster munitions, as you just laid out, the special relationship between

the two countries, of course, Nic remains very, very strong. Just in terms of the relationship between these two men how does the relationship between

Biden and Rishi Sunak differ and the relationship that Biden may have had with Boris Johnson.

ROBERTSON: I think, you know, for many of Boris Johnson's interlocutors and leadership level around the world, and in particular, the United States, he

had begun to be seen as somebody who wasn't particularly reliable, and that created difficulties.

We've seen how President Biden was disappointed the way that the UK handled Brexit in Northern Ireland, that's still an issue for President Biden. And

that was very much Boris Johnson's doing.

So I think with Rishi Sunak it's seen as the UK has a more consistent, reliable political leadership. Let's not forget, you know, when the UK was

a member of the European Union, it had a greater role for the United States as being a voice for the United States inside the European Union.

That's gone. President Obama was sort of putting more emphasis, perhaps on Germany and France than he was on the UK. Does this reset with Rishi Sunak?

I don't think reset is perhaps the right way to look at it, but it puts it on a firmer footing and this is the sixth meeting that the pair have had in

six months. So that is significant in that way in of itself.

ASHER: All Right, Nic Robertson, live for us there thank you so much. In Russia, the Kremlin saying that Wagner Chief Yevgeny Prigozhin met with a

Russian President Vladimir Putin only days after his short lived mutiny. Clare Sebastian joins us live now. Clare, this is a head scratcher somewhat

surprising. Do we have any color in terms of what the two men discuss what came out of the meeting?

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes Zain, we know from the Kremlin Spokesman Dmitry Peskov that the meeting was on June 29th. So that is

really about five days after that rebellion. 11 days ago now they were confirming a report that was published in a French news outlet perhaps

explaining why they waited 11 days to come out with this information.

But he said that they met for around three hours that involved 35 commanders. We don't know if the commanders from the Russian MOD or just

from Wagner the Russian media seems to be suggesting that it's just Wagner, the criminal wouldn't comment on a question as to whether any MOD

Representatives Minister of Defense Representatives were involved in this meeting.

But Putin appears to have given his assessment of the so called special military operation of the events of June 24th. I think clearly this flips

on its head the deal that we thought had resolved that armed rebellion Prigozhin would go to Belarus. Wagner fighters would have the choice to

join the Russian army or themselves going to Belarus.

No, it seems that Prigozhin turned up back in Russia. Certainly that is what the Belarusian Leader said last week. But obviously, major questions

arise from this. Why would Putin host the man who had just launched an armed rebellion really the only serious threat to his power in the 23


That he's been at the top of the Russian authorities. This rebellion of course also killed almost a dozen Russian servicemen. Why would he host

them? And then the following week, have police raid his office and his residence in St. Petersburg publishing somewhat humiliating photo as of

wigs and gold and guns and things like that I think you can possibly glean a few things for this.


One is that perhaps the Kremlin is trying to regain control over Wagner in this meeting. You spoke about Peskov this Kremlin Spokesman as he described

it to the commanders reaffirmed their commitment to Putin the Commander in Chief. So that is one thing the Kremlin tried to regain control.

And secondly, you know, it could signal that there is perhaps a continued role for Wagner to play in the war in Ukraine, even though there had been

suggestions that that role might be over the commander's, according to the Kremlin suggested that they wanted to continue to fight for the Motherland.

That is, of course, the critical question for Ukraine. The other big question, of course, is that we still don't actually know where Yevgeny

Prigozhin is? If this meeting was on June 29th we don't know where he went.

After that, we don't haven't seen any actual videos or photos of him since he left the Russian region of Rostov just after that armed rebellion,

though it does seem that if this latest revelation is true, he is emerging from this incident stronger than perhaps we had initially thought, Zain.

ASHER: Still so many questions. Clare Sebastian, live for us. Thank you. U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen says her two days of meetings in China

will help pave the way for more stable relations between the economic superpowers. Yellen wrapping up a visit to Beijing over the weekend those

talks could pave the way for a meeting between Presidents Biden and Xi later on this year. Here is our Kristie Lu Stout with more.


KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): The U.S. and China are still rivals but at least they're talking after 10 hours of meetings across

two days in Beijing. U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said she expects more regular communication between the U.S. and China. She added that the

world is big enough for both to thrive.

In Beijing, Yellen said that she had direct and productive talks to Chinese economic leadership, including Premier Li Chang and Pan Gongsheng the new

Party Chief of China's Central Bank. She said the U.S. and China were on steadier footing despite significant disagreements. Here is Yellen at a

press conference at the U.S. Embassy in Beijing on Sunday.

JANET YELLEN, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: But President Biden and I do not see the relationship between the U.S. and China through the frame of great

power conflict. We believe that the world is big enough for both of our countries to thrive.

STOUT (voice over): Within hours of that statement, President Biden had more pointed comments to make about Chinese Xi Jinping in an interview with

CNN's Fareed Zakaria.

FAREED ZAKARIA, INDIAN-AMERICAN JOURNALIST: You think he wants to replace he wants China to replace the United States as the leading power the

defining power?

BIDEN: Oh, yes. I mean, you know, I'm confident he wants to have the largest economy in the world and have the largest military capacity in the


STOUT (voice over): Yellen's trip marks the second visit by U.S. cabinet official to Beijing in recent weeks, as U.S. seeks to stabilize the rocky

relationship. Tensions have flared over trade targeted sanctions, and access to technology like semiconductors of the U.S. has curb China's

ability to acquire advanced microchips fearing that they could have military applications.

Yellen reiterated that the U.S. is not seeking to decouple from China, which would be "Disastrous and destabilizing". But she added that the U.S.

would continue to protect its national security interests.

Chinese state media described the talks as productive and said that overstretching of national security does no good to normal economic and

trade relations. The diplomatic push comes ahead of an expected visit by U.S. Climate Envoy John Kerry to restart global warming talks. And a

possible meeting between Biden and President Xi at the G20 in New Delhi or at APEC in San Francisco in November, Kristie Lu Stout CNN, Hong Kong.


ASHER: Meantime, a horrific knife attack in Southern China, a man allegedly killed six people outside of kindergarten. State media reports three

children are among the dead here. Anna Coren joins us live now. So Anna, this is not the first time we've seen this sort of incident in China, but

just walk us through whether or not we know exactly what the motive was here.

ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's absolutely disturbing what took place early this morning in China, Zain we understand a man fatally stabbed

six people with a knife outside a kindergarten in Southern Guangdong Province.

Now, according to state media, the victims were three children, two parents and one teacher, one person was wounded. We don't have the ages of any of

those victims. Now CNN has blurred the images that you're seeing of lifeless bodies lying on the road. Emergency crews were quick to act but

unable to save the victims. They all perished at the scene.

Police arrested a 25-year-old man from Lianjiang County he's from the same place where the kindergarten is located. Now he's been taken into police

custody and an investigation is underway. Authorities, Zain have released very few details about the fatal stabbings other than to say that this

attack was intentional.


Now guns in China are strictly controlled and out of reach for most people but knives have become common and an accessible weapon. In recent years

there has been a spate of mass stabbings at schools targeting children across China. Let me go through some of them for you.

In August of last year, three people were stabbed to death and six wounded at a kindergarten in China's Southern Jiangxi Province. Back in April 2021

two children were killed and 16 wounded in a stabbing attack at another kindergarten in Southwestern Guangxi.

And then back in June 2020, 37 children and two adults were wounded in a knife attack at an elementary school in Southern China. Zain, you know

China has very low rates of violent crime compared to the United States compared to the west but these horrific knife attacks are often targeting

you know, the youngest victim's young children at kindergartens are incredibly disturbing.

ASHER: Absolutely Anna Coren, live for us there thank you so much. All right, still to come, strengthening the so called special relationship

between Britain and the United States, now President Biden's trip to Britain will be read around the world plus prime the energy drink founded

by YouTube stars is in the spotlight over its caffeine content will explain all the controversy later on in the show.


ASHER: All right. As you heard, it's certainly been a busy day for President Biden who's wrapping up his trip to the UK. Right now he is in

Windsor meeting the King for the first time since Charles's coronation.

Earlier in London the President met with Prime Minister Rishi Sunak to discuss Ukraine and NATO speaking in the Downing Street Garden Mr. Biden

described his relationship with the UK as rock solid. He's now preparing to travel onwards to the NATO Summit in Lithuania. Max Foster is joining us

live now from Windsor Castle for us.

So, Max, just in terms of this meeting between King Charles and President Biden the King obviously is not supposed to weigh in on current affairs or

current events. They are going to be talking about climate change. How much will Ukraine future as a topic of conversation even just sort of



MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think it could possibly get in there on the basis that King Charles has been really outspoken about Ukraine and the

unprovoked attack on Ukraine that he describes Russia inflicted on that country. So on that level, perhaps in may discuss what might be done about


But I don't think it will go into any more detail than that, because there are fundamental differences between the U.K. and U.S. governments on that

have emerged only in recent weeks, cluster bombs, for example, which is something that Britain doesn't support. That's what the U.S. is supplying

to Ukraine.

Also, Britain nominated their Defense Minister for the Head of NATO and President Biden reportedly blocked that also Britain relaxing Ukraine

becoming part of NATO much more quickly than the U.S. would. So there are tensions there. I don't think in Charles going to delve into that, because

that's a matter for the Prime Minister discussed possibly this morning.

The climate meeting, though, is interesting, though, because you can imagine in the past, the Queen would have similar meetings like this Queen

Elizabeth the second, the late Queen, and they would go retire into the castle, and they would have a tea. King Charles also did that with

President Biden.

But then they went on to this meeting, which is a climate meeting, Chief execs of American and British banks, discussing how to help with climate

change on developing countries. And that's really unusual. And for many people, climate has become a political issue.

But for Charles, he is showing his continued interest in that topic, having been a pioneer on it. So I think this is interesting in the sense that is

the way Charles is carrying out a new type of monarchy, as distinct from his mother.

ASHER: And speaking of his mother, President Biden met Queen Elizabeth, I believe around two years ago, 2021 on the back of a G7 summit just

explained to us how that meeting between Biden and Queen Elizabeth is going to be different or was different, rather from this meeting taking place

right now with King Charles.

FOSTER: Well, you know, there's a different tone. I think that the Queen in many ways transcended monarchy, because she was the longest serving Head of

State in the world and so many other Heads of State would look at her, would love to have that picture with the Queen because she was this

historic figure that defined and punctuated so many different phases of history.

So that's what she represented. And I think that one of the reasons she kept her discussions confidential was to allow other Heads of State to ask

her really frank and honest questions, which everyone knew wouldn't leak. I think it's different with Charles he's been around for a long time as well.

The first serving President that he met was President Eisenhower in 1959. So does have that experience, but not such a towering legacy. He's very

early in his monarchy. So he's handling things slightly differently. He is more of a campaigning monarch. So he's just doing it slightly different

from the Queen.

And there's some controversy to that. But I think people also like the authenticity that comes with that as well. He's more honest about his

feelings. The Queen never ever gave us any suggestion of her feelings. So we didn't know her as well. But of course, that made her, Zain, a more

universal figure, didn't it? Less people objected to her views, but she just didn't ever express them.

ASHER: Yes, complete and total volt. Max Foster, live for us there, thank you so much. And I'll be much more on the Presidential visit later on this

hour. I want to bring in Tina Fordham, a Geopolitical Strategist and the Founder of Fordham Global Foresight. Tina, thank you so much for being with


I want to talk a bit more about President Biden's meeting with Rishi Sunak. Even obviously, there is a strong as President Biden put it rock solid

special relationship between these two countries. But there are some minor points of contention I shouldn't say minor, really, some of them are quite

significant, especially when it comes to cluster bombs.

Nothing really expected to rock the boat between Rishi Sunak and President Biden. But just explain to us how significant this meeting is and how high

the stakes are in terms of this meeting between these two men?

TINA FORDHAM, GEOPOLITICAL STRATEGIST & FOUNDER OF FORDHAM GLOBAL FORESIGHT: Thank you very much. It's a meeting which probably has a greater

significance here in the U.K. for Prime Minister Rishi Sunak and his government. I think for the U.S., nobody would put it this way. But it

really is an important stop over on the road to Vilnius for the NATO summit.

Meeting with Kings, King Charles now that he has been installed, and seeing Rishi Sunak to kind of shore up relations is important and the most crucial

aspect is going to be solidifying the position on Ukraine in NATO. The courts have had a pretty significant new wrinkle. You might have seen

President Erdogan's statement just recently that we'll have slightly put the cat amongst the chickens.


ASHER: Yes, just to sort of lay that out for our viewers what Tina's talking about is that President Erdogan is saying that listen if you want

me to allow Sweden to join NATO you have to also allow Turkey to join the EU in exchange. I mean, what do you make of that kind of strategizing that

chess move by President Erdogan?

FORDHAM: Strategizing is you're being very diplomatic. There it is classic Tayyip Erdogan, bearing in mind that the Turkish President has just been

reelected after a pretty difficult campaign. In the run up to the elections, Turkey had withheld its support for Sweden's NATO bid, allowing

Finland in.

Turkey is very adept at furthering its national interests and goals via these kinds of negotiations. But this is really out of left field. And of

course, these invitations are hardly interchangeable. The members of NATO are not the same as the members of the European Union.

But he has managed to kind of hijack the agenda in advance of Vilnius when all eyes have been coordinating the language around the statement for some

type of clear path for Ukraine.

ASHER: And speaking of a clear path for Ukraine, and obviously, it's impossible for Ukraine to rejoin NATO while the war is still going on, for

obvious reasons. But after the war ends, is their membership path to joining NATO contingent, or should it be contingent on anything other than

the war?

And then I guess what I'm asking is, what is the fast track membership for Ukraine to join NATO actually look like here? And how much support is there

within NATO for that fast track for Ukraine?

FORDHAM: This is a really important question. And it's going to be the subject of very intense negotiations, because I think that the NATO member

states are united in the notion that Ukraine needs to be given a perspective. And there are a couple of holdouts on the best way of doing


Now, what's interesting about President Biden's most recent remarks on the fruits carriers show was that he puts him in the camp with Germany, which

has been possibly among the most cautious, shall we say, in offering Ukraine a clear path to membership. I think it's safe to say the majority

of the NATO member states.

Certainly the Baltic states, and Poland and a few others, have come to the view that a clear path is necessary not only for Ukraine, to maintain what

remains of its territorial integrity, but to prevent the risk of further Russian interventions elsewhere, which is very live, and something that the

Baltic States and Poland had been warning about, for many years, frankly, falling on deaf ears.

ASHER: So once the war is over, I mean, what sort of other if there is no sort of fast track, if Ukraine has to go the slow route? For example, what

are the other pre-conditions that they still need to fulfill? I mean, President Biden touched on this idea of corruption. There are several

others, though, what has Ukraine already fulfilled and addressed? And what is what is still left on the table?

FORDHAM: Listen, I think we need to appreciate that many of these criteria are fundamentally political in nature. We also saw this, although I just

said it's a different process with EU enlargement. Ukraine has shown that it's got the military prowess, you know, the commitment to be a

contributing member.

That's what it's campaigning on. There is debate, for example, on whether the war needs to be over. And also the point on territorial integrity of

some have pointed out that West Germany at the time was able to join NATO, even though it was divided from East Germany.

So there is going to be a lot to discuss and they're going to have to find this balance between being encouraging and supportive of Ukraine without

you know, giving a too fast of a signal because they want to encourage reforms. And Ukraine has plenty of reforms to make.

But that's what makes the NATO accession path different from EU accession, which I would expect to take a much longer time.


And you know, coming back to Turkey, Turkey has been a candidate for EU accession for an exceptionally long time progress slowed to a halt,

Erdogan's taking the chance to remind everyone and also trying to draw a bit of a contrast between Turkey and Ukraine in that respect.

ASHER: Tina Fordham, live for us there, Founder of Fordham Global Foresight, thank you so much appreciate you having on the show. Alright,

let's get me on "First Move", Ukraine seemingly on a fast track membership to NATO -- what the government is looking for ahead of a meeting in



ASHER: Welcome back to "First Move", U.S. stocks are up and running on a Wall Street. Let's take a look and see how things are faring right now. I

mean it's mostly flat open slightly higher but mostly flat open after last week's pullback. Investors waiting a key read on U.S. consumer inflation on

Wednesday and the start of U.S. earnings season on Friday.

One of last week's big Wall Street winners Rivian Motors is suddenly higher in early trading shares of the Electric Vehicle Company rose more than 40

percent last week on strong delivery numbers. Meta also beginning the week higher as well, some 100 million users have now signed up for the company's

Threads social media app.


Meta launched the app less than a week ago in a bid to take on rival Twitter. One of Europe's biggest arms -- wants to produce more weapons for

Ukraine and plans to make them inside Ukraine itself. Germany's Rheinmetall says it will open a plant to build tanks in Ukraine within the next 12


It also plans to train Ukrainians to maintain the tanks and other armored vehicles made there as well. Fred Pleitgen sat down with Rheinmetall CEO

about its plans. He joins us live now from Berlin. So CEO basically saying this is all part of a concrete plan to help Ukrainians help themselves.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's exactly what he's saying. One of the things that he was saying was that

they plan to open a workshop and then later possibly also a factory to help the Ukrainians themselves to manufacture the arms. But one of the things

that he also said, Zain, in the short term, which is a big need, which also the international community has said as well, is that the Ukrainians need

more ammunition.

One of the reasons apparently, why they're having some trouble advancing right now in the south and the east of Ukraine is a lack of ammunition. And

that's also one area where the CEO of Rheinmetall told me that his company is ready to vastly expand their production, let's listen in.


ARMIN PAPPERGER, CEO OF RHEINMETALL: I think it's very important that we help the Ukrainian that they are independent. They have to help themself if

they always have to wait that Europeans or Americans help them over the next 10 or 20 years. I think that's not possible. So what we have to do is

we have to give them technology on NATO basis. And over the next two to three months, we will open the first workshop in Ukraine, in the western

part of Ukraine, and then they can maintenance their vehicles by themself.

PLEITGEN: So workshop means maintaining Western vehicles. What sort of production do you think could be possible? Thinking of tanks, for instance,

armored personnel carriers and alike.

PAPPERGER: The first idea is really APCs. On the APC side, as you know, we have Fox technology 100 percent under control, and the 6x6 vehicle would be

a very good vehicle for the Ukrainian army. So at the moment, 10 models per month we deliver, we are able to deliver, and we deliver a lot of leopard

to air force.

Over the 12 months, we will deliver 250 vehicles, which is a lot. But there is more need for ammunition because the lack of ammunition is much more

important than the lack of vehicles.

PLEITGEN: The ammunition is a huge deficit right now for the Ukrainians. They talk about it a lot. Where can you help?

PAPPERGER: We help them and the capacity we have is huge. Rheinmetall has the biggest capacity for tank ammunition we produce this year 150,000

rounds, we are able to produce 240,000 rounds, by far the biggest capacity worldwide, we will deliver and we deliver also now, the Ukrainian forces.

The second point is and this is the biggest need of artillery ammunition. On the artillery ammunition, we produce 100,000 of rounds and the capacity

of next year will be 600,000. So if you see that the need is 1 million Rheinmetall could deliver if we deliver only the Ukrainian 60 percent of

the need.

PLEITGEN: So, can you ramp that up quickly also?

PAPPERGER: We ramped it up, we invest -- , if you've already been in that process.

PLEITGEN: Shall we know that for artillery ammunition are generally for ammunition gunpowder has to go through a certain process before it can be

turned into shells.

PAPPERGER: We are the biggest producer of gunpowder and this is also a point, if we are able to produce 600,000 rounds. I think that's a huge help

for the Ukrainians.

PLEITGEN: What are the some of the things where you've maybe found weak point's stuff that you might need to change stuff that might need to be

improved? Are there lessons learned?

PAPPERGER: The Ukrainians now need land system stuff, they need ammunition conventional ammunition because all people and all governments thought it

is impossible to have conventional war, we have a conventional war in Europe. The second point is if you have boots on the ground, you need

highly protected equipment.

Highly protected means you have must be protected against -- drones. So, on the tank side its quality on the ammunition. This is a very important thing

also is quantity.

PLEITGEN: Do you think that European nations because you were talking about things like ammunition stocks, generally militaries in Europe, do you think

that they've understood how much the security in Europe have changed? Are they prepared in case something like this escalates, in case they are


PAPPERGER: At the moment, they are not. They have to invest more and we need some years to fill the stocks.

PLEITGEN: Are you surprised at how far the German government has come such a short period of time?

PAPPERGER: The decision of the chancellor was a game changer and it was also a game changer and the new Minister of Defense is a game changer in



He's pushing through with this organization now these contracts and we negotiate billions and billions at the moment usually two years ago. We

need two or three years to do that. Now we need maybe four to five -- .

PLEITGEN: What about your business in America? I know that you are one of two companies left bidding for the new infantry fighting vehicle for the

U.S. military. How confident are you that you can win?

PAPPERGER: We won the prototype contract it's a good contract it's a $800 million but at the end of the day, both companies want to win the big deal

and we will see what happens we will fight to heart and we try to give our customer the best solution.


ASHER: All right, it looks as though we're having some technical difficulties there as you could see was Fred Pleitgen, there for us.

Alright, stay with "First Move". We'll be back right after this.


ASHER: Ahead of the critical NATO summit in Lithuania, Ukraine's Foreign Minister said that NATO has agreed to let the country bypass a detailed

formal process and an application to join the Alliance. The Membership Action Plan is a NATO program assistance and practical support for

countries that wish to join the Alliance.

It can be a lengthy process on the eve of the Vilnius summit, the Head of Presidents Zelenskyy's office said, "We work intensively the position of

Ukraine will be substantive. There is a lot of communication with allies. We're waiting for good news".

But in an exclusive interview over the weekend with CNN, President Joe Biden said that Russia's war must end before NATO can consider membership

for Ukraine. Joining me live now is Olga Stefanishyna. She's the Deputy Prime Minister of Ukraine. Olga, thank you so much for being with us.

The key issue here is really about timeline. I mean, there are several allies who say, look, it is very difficult. Olga, do I still have you

there? I think your computer may have fallen. OK, do I still have you?


ASHER: I think the issue is about timeline. There are several key allies who say look it is very difficult for Ukraine to join NATO while the war is

going on to avoid NATO being dragged into a war with Russia.


Just in terms of what happens as soon as the war is over, what are your expectations here? Do you anticipate that once the war is over in terms of

the likely outcome? Do you anticipate that there will be a fast track path for Ukraine being able to join NATO?

STEFANISHYNA: Well, thank you for this question indeed, it's very clear to Ukraine that membership, in Ukrainian case, it's a process and it requires

to identify the modalities and the circumstances under which could get a fully-fledged process. But for us, it's really important that we're not

hesitating can see no hesitation from allies in terms of the political commitment and commitment through invitation that Ukraine to join NATO.

And we have already shown our capability to reform and transform ourselves in times of the full scale war. So which means that while the war is raging

gone, and security conditions does not allow to have the decision of formal joining the NATO, we can transform ourselves, making us fully capable with

the Alliance.

So, while it would be extremely important at this particular moment to have a clear political signal for Ukraine joining NATO.

ASHER: And it's interesting, because, you know, President Biden, over during an interview over the weekend, has basically said, look, you know,

it's obviously a nice idea for Ukraine to be able to join NATO as soon as the war ends. But he sort of touched on this idea of there still being

preconditions and requirements that needs to be met.

Obviously, I know that Ukraine has worked on many of these requirements, especially corruption, but corruption was something that President Biden

touched upon. I mean, so what are your thoughts on that? The fact that it might not be as simple as, as soon as the war is over, there is a clear

fast track path for Ukraine, but it might take a little bit more than the war to be over. Just walk us through your thoughts on that?

STEFANISHYNA: Well, the whole story of Ukraine's compatibility with the Alliance does not start in the building. So we have a 10 year and almost a

decade of process related to transformation based on the nature rules and standards. So we have a really good background, and it's already seen by

the results on the battlefield.

At the same time, we are ongoing through the process of joining the European Union, which is formalized, and which has started after the

political commitment given to Ukraine last year with the candidate statues. So we have been under very serious and comprehensive reforms related to

judiciary, rule of law, anti-corruption.

There are things to be done, but many things are already behind our shoulders. So it's only showing that we are in a process and the commitment

is there. And the capacity to deliver is there, despite the very fact the war is raging on. So we have heard the signal from President Biden loud and


And we held that overview summit, which will launch the NATO Ukraine council meeting. There will be a discussion on the shape and the format of

the political commitment which could be taken, given that the discussion even at the level of the leaders are still going on between our Presidents,

the leaders, allied countries at the level of us ministers.

And the final vision and the final commitment are not yet there agreed, although the meeting will start tomorrow already.

ASHER: Yes, I want to talk about commitments, because, you know, obviously, there have been sort of vague promises about Ukraine, potentially one day

at some point in the future, being able to join NATO, dating back at least 15 years, you know, since NATO summits in 2008.

So obviously, things have changed over the past year and a half. And Ukraine needs real concrete pledges, a true commitment here. What is

Ukraine? What is Zelenskyy looking to get out of this summit that starts tomorrow?

STEFANISHYNA: Well, first and foremost, I can say that we are already in the middle of a serious transformation of thinking as regards your Atlantic

perspective, even though the summit has not yet taken place. Because the toughness of discussions and a very, let's say strong messaging from U.S.

leadership from Germany only shows that the dialogue is really serious.

And that NATO is not permitted to give another set of empty promises or just promises that it was 15 years ago. So for us, it's crucial that we

hear not only the reference to the open door policy, but the established NATO Ukraine council would identify the modalities related to France future

membership to you.


But the political commitment, the invitation will take place when the security conditions or any other conditions allow is also essential to us

for having it in these particular moment when the counter offensive measures started to hear the signal of unity and commitment, and also, we

understand that the long lasting.

Let's say cautiousness, as regards Russia does not have place at this particular moment of history, because we have seen that less than in 24

hours the call, the whole administrative capacity and resilience of the governments could be undermined by a small group of the military


And basically now they result with the sitting in Kremlin and negotiating with Putin, a part of many citizens of Russia who have been captured and

detained only for Facebook posts. So it is the best moment to show the resolute support and a political commitment and to give a clear contrast

that no Russia is on the table.

And no, Russia is part of the dialogue, when it comes to the security in Europe. And security in Europe is only possible with Ukraine being part of

the architecture. And I think that it is vital that it's not only the voice of Ukraine is the voice of all Bucharest Nine and Eastern Flank of NATO,

who's been clear and standing position that security in Europe and secure Eastern Flank will not be completed without Ukraine being part of the


ASHER: All right, Deputy Prime Minister Olga Stefanishyna, thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate it. All right, coming up prime

problem and energy drinks loaded with caffeine and promoted by YouTube. Influencers are causing concern on Capitol Hill, a Prime primer, just



ASHER: Welcome back to "First Move", is the popular energy drink Prime ready for primetime. U.S. senator is calling for a high level U.S.

government probe into the drink saying Prime contains so much caffeine that it puts Redbull to shame. He also says it poses a potential health risk to


CNN has reached out to Prime for a response and has not yet heard back. CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich joins us live now. I mean, kids love this stuff.

They add my niece and nephew. I was just in London and it's gone viral over there as well. I mean, just walk us through why people have gravitated

towards this drink and what the risks are here with the caffeine content?

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is incredibly popular among teens and young people. This blew up on social

media, on TikTok alone Prime has 3.4 million followers, 42 million likes.


It's also been really advertised by its co-Founder Logan Paul who has millions of followers himself. Now there's the Prime hydration, which is

the sports drink. And then there's Prime energy. And that's the concern from Senator Schumer, who's concerned about the high levels of caffeine,

200 milligrams per can.

There's a big market though in energy drinks, in 2022 $58 billion in sales globally. 2023 that number is looking closer to $62 billion in sales, and

in about four years projected in 2027 $83 billion. And another way that this brand is getting their name out there is they're sponsoring huge

sports teams like the LA Dodgers Arsenal, this soccer club team Barcelona.

And these are sports teams that also work with very big brands like Adidas and Nike and Coca Cola. So, Prime, clearly trying to get, themselves, into

a position of popular nature. They clearly are doing really well in sales. They're sold out everywhere. You mentioned your nieces and nephews.

I mean, they can't find it. This is so popular especially among young people. They're asking their parents to get it for them. But it's important

to note the difference between the sports drink and the energy drink which is the issue that a lot of legislators are having they want the FDA to make

sure that people know the difference, Zain.

ASHER: Right Prime hydration versus the energy drink. Vanessa Yurkevich, have to leave it there. Thank you so much. That's it for the show. "Connect

the World" is up next.