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First Move with Julia Chatterley

Treasury Department Criticizes Fitch Move; Beijing Hit by Heaviest Rainfall on Record; Ford Raises Guidance after Strong Q2 Earnings; Lawler: We're going to be Thoughtful about Investment; NASA Hears Voyagers 2 Signal after Contact Lost. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired August 02, 2023 - 09:00   ET





JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: A warm welcome to "First Move". Fantastic to have you with us this Wednesday you've been watching CNN's

coverage of the latest indictment against former President Donald Trump. We will continue to follow all the action ahead of his expected appearance in

court on Thursday.

But first there's plenty more going on elsewhere in the world global stocks under pressure a slight knee jerk reaction I think after a surprise U.S.

debt downgrade by the ratings agency Fitch cutting America's AAA long term debt rating to AA plus.

It follows a similar move by S&P more than a decade ago now regular viewers will know exactly what I think of the usefulness let's call it that of

rating agencies. So I leave it to smarter economists to comment.

Bizarre Internet, Absurd and Off-base those are some of my favorite choices. Anyway, there was a point to it, I think and that's politics.

Fitch fears a deeply divided U.S. Congress and its ability to tackle excess debt and things like skyrocketing social benefit costs.

Now the Fitch ditch might be a slight stimulant for investors looking to take profits after a strong summer on and a solid earnings season so far,

and auto giant forward one of the large blue chip firms to report better than expected second quarter results. Ford beating on earnings and raising

guidance amid strong demand.

But losses inside its EV its electric vehicle division are widening. And they also pushed back their production timetable. We'll hear from the

company's CFO John Lawler later on in the show. But first, let's get more on that reaction to the U.S. debt downgrade.

Arlette Saenz join us now where President Biden is on vacation, I believe so yes, you're in a holiday town to talk about this, which is an

interesting one. The White House reaction to this, I think was also interesting. We've got the economist reaction I think, deeply skeptical,

the White House sharing, I think their confusion and annoyance about this?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the White House really made clear their frustration quite swiftly after Fitch made this decision

to downgrade the U.S. credit rating only the second time that a major credit rating agency has done this in U.S. history.

Now Fitch had actually warned of the possibility that they might downgrade the U.S. credit rating back when that debt ceiling fight was playing out.

But they finally made that move yesterday are releasing their analysis in a report citing erosion in governance of the United States as being a key

factor in that.

Now they pointed out that there have been these repeated standoffs over certain issues, including the debt limit. And not just in this

administration, but also over the past two decades. That is something that White House officials were also quick to point out that this is something

that spanned not just their administration.

Now also, CNN has learned that in a meeting with an administration official officials Fitch said that there were serious concerns about January 6, and

how that related to U.S. governance. Now the White House from the Treasury Department to the Press Secretary very quickly pushed back on this decision

from Fitch.

Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen saying in a statement "I strongly disagree with Fitch Ratings decision; the change is arbitrary and based on outdated

data. Fitch decision does not change what Americans investors already know that Treasury Secretaries remain the worlds sorry treasury securities

remain the world's preeminent safe and liquid assets".

So you've seen the White House they're really trying to move quickly to counter this. But what it does is it really speaks to the fact that of what

kind of impacts the political standoffs that have become so common in Washington and what kind of impact that is having on financial and economic

situations? And of course there could potentially be real impacts that Americans could feel to this as well when it comes to borrowing for

mortgages or other issues.


But you've also heard, as you noted, there are many experts who have been pushing back on this as well. It's not just the White House, but this was

to be something that the White House is watching closely trying to navigate. And of course, watching how those markets continue to respond

throughout the day.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, that's the key. A credit rating is about a country's ability to repay its debts and America's dysfunction political

dysfunction was never about the lack of financing to be able to pay back its debt. It was just about political dysfunction. It's a moot point but

it's a great point to make. Arlette, great to have you with us thank you. Arlette Saenz there!

Now Russia continues to target Ukraine's grain infrastructure in the Odessa region, this time drone strikes damaging a major port on the Danube River

near Romania a NATO nation. That port has been serving as Ukraine's main alternative route for grain exports since Russia pulled out of the Black

Sea initiative.

Nick Paton Walsh joins us on this. Nick, it's also important in light at the end of that deal for storage in some of these smaller ports too.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that this is clearly Moscow has been, I think, to increase the urgency of what

they want at the negotiating table to get this grain deal back on track. And typically for Moscow, they're using violence against civilian targets

again here, but startlingly too these attacks.

The closest that Russia has got to potentially hitting a NATO member Romania, these port facilities lining the Danube River that separates

Ukraine and Romania. Romania's President Klaus Iohannis, saying clearly that this is unacceptable, calling it a war crime and it again, I think,

adds to the potential here of an escalation in this conflict. I think it's likely that Moscow does not want to provoke NATO into a larger role in this


Remember, they are already arming and assisting Ukraine a lot. But we've also seen a protest from the Polish President about an incursion, they say

by Belarusian aircraft across the border in the last 24 hours and so this potentially forms part of a pattern of Russia now increasingly desperate,

struggling on the southern front lines here to hold territory, pushing and provoking NATO in small elements like this.

Now that may just be feeding into President Putin's narrative that they are at war with the entire NATO bloc that's perhaps the Kremlin's way of

explaining the disastrous conduct of this invasion so far, but it is certainly, I think, a moment of pause and too important to remember that

this grain deal isn't just about negotiation between Ukraine and Russia here.

There are African States much of the world waiting for these grain shipments to resume in order to keep food prices at a sustainable level

here. So coming as we also see today, concerns about how Ukraine is progressing in the East. They are suggesting some potential advanced there

and in the south. But the counter offensive still moving at a pace that is not necessarily as fast as Ukraine would like it to Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Nick, good to have you. Thank you. Nick Paton Walsh there! Now the French Foreign Ministry says 513 people have now been evacuated on

flights from Niger to France. It follows a military coup that has pushed the country into a leadership crisis and sent shockwaves across Western

Africa. There was relief among 350 French citizens arriving late Tuesday at Charles de Gaulle Airport in Paris, some of them describing the situation

they left behind.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a bit unfortunate to leave Niger in this situation, more like a hostage situation and the coup. So that's it. And

we're glad to be back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We haven't left the house since it started. We haven't left the house. We've stayed inside until we were evacuated.


CHATTERLEY: Beijing has just recorded its heaviest rainfall since records began. That's according to the National Weather Service. The remnants of

Typhoon Doksuri now battering the north of the country, Anna Coren reports it's taken a deadly toll.

ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The death toll from former super Typhoon Doksuri continues to rise across China. 21 people now dead accord to

authorities. 12 of those were in Beijing with another dozen still missing.

The storm has dumped the heaviest rainfall over the capital ever recorded in 140 years. Heavy rains began pummeling Beijing and surrounding areas

last Saturday, with the average rainfall for the month of July, falling on the capital in just 40 hours.

Severe flooding washed away cars damaged buildings and roads, with many residents needing to be evacuated. In neighboring Hubei Province over

800,000 people were evacuated. Authorities say nine people were killed, six are still missing.

Chinese Leader Xi Jinping called for every effort to rescue those lost or trapped by the rain. State media reports that maximum rainfall was recorded

in 10 weather stations in Hubei Province also breaking historical records.


The local Meteorological Service says rainfall in Beijing and Hubei is expected to ease today or the storm moves towards northeastern China. As we

know China has been experiencing extreme weather and posting record temperatures this summer, which scientists believe has been exacerbated by

climate change.

Another typhoon is now heading towards China. Typhoon Khanun the sixth storm this year is powerful and slow moving. Currently it's lashing Japan,

although authorities say it's weakened slightly. It's reached winds of 185 kilometers an hour that's 115 miles per hour, the equivalent of a category

three Atlantic hurricane. So far one person has died. Khanun has knocked out power to 1/3 of homes in Okinawa.

Phone and internet connections have been disrupted at the airport in Okinawa's Capital has been closed for a second day. Okinawa is home to the

bulk of U.S. forces based in Japan. This typhoon is expected to move towards China and Taiwan later this week. Anna Coren, CNN Hong Kong.

CHATTERLEY: More "First Move" when we return.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move" and returning to our top story once again Former U.S. President Donald Trump's set to appear in federal

court in Washington D.C. on Thursday afternoon.

He's facing four criminal charges including conspiracy to defraud the United States by seeking to overturn the results of the 2020 election. Zach

Cohen joins us now. Zach just explains to us exactly what's in this indictment and what the full charges are?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, this indictment really puts the charges in very stark terms. Jack Smith, the Special Counsel who

was overseeing this investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election says Donald Trump was "Determined to stay in power, and that he

and his six unindicted co conspirators essentially carry out a plot a failed plot to overturn the legitimate results".

The indictment really details a sweeping case that Jack Smith and his fellow prosecutors are put together against the Former President. You know,

as you said, they include four counts, including conspiracy charges that are really serious and carry very serious repercussions if convicted, and

obviously Donald Trump has not been found guilty. And, you know, guilty until proven innocent.

But this indictment is historic on several fronts. It says that Donald Trump and these unindicted co-conspirators worked for two months after the

election, to overturn the results through a variety of ways all the way leading up to January 6th when, as you know rioters stormed the U.S.

Capitol and tried to keep Congress from certifying Joe Biden's legitimate victory.

So Trump was doing this all by spreading what he knew to be lies. That's what prosecutors say. And that's what this case is really built around the

idea that Trump knew what he was saying about allegations of widespread voter fraud and about the election being stolen were lies, and yet he used

those to try to sow distrust in the election results and ultimately try to overturn the election, his election loss into a win.

CHATTERLEY: I think the key word for me that was the unindicted and as part of this; the suggestion is that he enlisted co-conspirators to assist him

in his criminal efforts. And I'm reading the quote there as they obviously not named because at this stage they've not been charged with anything. But

what's fascinating, I think, is if you looked at the details, some of the quotes are so obvious that they can't tell you who the people are. Talk to

us about the potential co-conspirators.

COHEN: You know, the details in the indictment have allowed us to identify five of the six unindicted co-conspirators. They include people like

Trump's Former Personal Attorney Rudy Giuliani, people like John Eastman really names that if you were following along during the January 6

committee hearings was sound familiar to you?

And these, you know, these six names include four attorneys, that's an important point that there are four attorneys who Jack Smith, the special

prosecutor here says assisted Donald Trump in his criminal efforts so really interesting that you know, just because they are on a data co-

conspirators now, also doesn't mean that charges couldn't come in the future. So if they you know, these six people are probably not resting easy

at this stage.

CHATTERLEY: Zach, thank you for that. OK, coming up after the break an electrified future for Ford, we hear from CFO John Lawler, who's talking

EVs hybrids and all the technologies that come along with it after this.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", with Ford in focus the giant automaker posting better than expected results for the second quarter and

raising its 2023 profit guidance too. Though there was a bit of a reality check for investors regarding its electric car ambitions.

Now, although sales in the period jumped to nearly $2 billion, Ford said its annual losses in that division this year could hit $4.5 billion. That

was way higher than expected. They also push back their production targets too. Now while demand for EVs may be a touch slower than expected.

The firm also said it's working on a slate of new hybrid models to facilitate the transition. Now I spoke to Ford's Chief Financial Officer

John Lawler about EVs and why take up has been slightly slower than anticipated. John, fantastic to have you with us, a fascinating and a

strong quarter, I think for Ford.

But I do want to start with I think what investors fixated on most of all, which was the reality check, I think you provided in the electric vehicle

sphere. What do we need to understand and why is adoption slower in your mind than anticipated?

JOHN LAWLER, CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER OF FORD: Well, I think the clear point here is that we are in the transition to electric vehicles, there's no

doubt about that. The pace and rate of change into electric vehicles isn't going to be a straight line and what we're seeing is that come through.

The important thing for us about this as being a first mover, the folks we're bringing into Ford with our electric vehicle sales. 60 percent of

them are new on our pickup truck, 50 percent are new on our Mach-E vehicle, into Ford, new customers to Ford.

So it's very important to understand that the lifetime value of those customers has to be understood as we do this transition. And it's positive

and we're very, very encouraged by what we're seeing on their loyalty as well. So the transitions here and being a first mover is an advantage for


CHATTERLEY: And we'll talk about both of those things. I think generally we took about two parts of this the upfront price, even with the cost savings

that you get with no or less spending on petrol or gas, but also the charge anxiety and where do I charge this thing? Even if I buy it, which is, I

guess the benefit of hybrid because it gives you the best of both worlds in this sense.

What more does it takes because you've sort of tinkered with both you've got the deal now, in the U.S. and Canada from next year with the super

charges? You've also tinkered with lowering some of the price points as well. What more does it take to fuel this transition?

LAWLER: Well, I think we're in a good spot. First of all, one of the things that we've done by joining the Tesla charging network is we've given our

customers a much broader base for charging to ease some of that charge anxiety. The other thing we're doing is our dealers are installing high

speed chargers as well.

So about second quarter next year, our customers will have choice of about 25,000 chargers across the country, which we think of make a big difference

for them. And for when it comes to the rest of the adoption, where you've moved from the early adopters into early majority.

So those customers are going to behave a little bit differently. We're seeing how their needs need to be met. We're seeing that price is

important. We're also seeing that charging is important. And we're addressing both of those issues. So the response we had to recent price

changes on our lightening vehicle has been tremendous.

I think our order take is up about six times since we've reduced the price. We've tripled production. So I think we're in a good spot. And I think

we're in the spot where you're going to continue to see us ramp in volume. And you're going to continue to see the adoption rate come along.

And being a first mover, as I said, is what we're doing here is really important for us as a company.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. And just does it also and should it also change the thinking on hybrids as well, as you've said a couple of times now, this is

a transition we tend to be quite binary when we talk about this. Oh, it's a combustion engine vehicle or it's an electric vehicle but there are also

transition options and I think you see that in your numbers and the demand that you see too.


LAWLER: Absolutely we've had a strong hybrid strategy for years. Our strategy on that has been consistent we're in a really good shape as a

company because we have a very strong ice business we have a very strong commercial business. And now we have a growing electric business.

And what were you going to see is that different use cases for the vehicles are going to see a different adoption rate into electrification. And so if

you're a large, you tow a large trailer or something, you're going to look for a hybrid before you move into electric.

And so we're offering that choice to our customers, we're giving them the ability to move into a form of electrification. And I think you're going to

see that pace of change accelerate, as well. And you're going to see a larger adoption of hybrids. And we're positioned really well for that,

because we have a full offer of electric vehicles, as well as hybrid vehicles, gas and diesel.

CHATTERLEY: I think the other thing you've said to gain is the first mover advantage. And I think we've seen that in many ways with Tesla, you have

deep pockets as well as a business and have pushed forward on this and done so very quickly. But I think there are a couple of things in this process,


It's not just about what we're driving it's about how we're driving and the digital services that come along with that. And I think that's a crucial

part of what we're seeing in this process as well. How important do you see not only that what we're driving in that technological transition, but also

the provision of the opportunities that you give those drivers to do other things with this vehicle?

LAWLER: Well, honestly, I'm more excited about the transformation around the digital experience customer's vehicle than the propulsion system of


CHATTERLEY: Yes, me too.

LAWLER: I mean, these are going to be very smart vehicles, if you will, robots on the road that have intelligence, we see it come through really

strongly in our commercial business, where we're able to provide through the digital experience improved productivity for our customers, which

improves their bottom line, those commercial customers.

It keeps their vehicle on the road at all times, and you know downtime for them cost them money. And on the consumer side, or the retail side, driver

assist technologies are advancing at a great speed. So that's a convenience for customers, safety and security can be improved.

So there are many different areas where this digital transformation is going to make a customer's life much better in their vehicle. And the

utility of that vehicle or the value of that vehicle is improving it to me that is, much more exciting than the move to electrification. And that's

exciting enough on its own.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I'm a tech geek. So I have to say is great as it is to talk to you about the cars and what's going on there that the digital side

of this. To me, it's fascinating, a quick line on the money though, I think part of the fright the perhaps we can call it that we saw investors take

was the scale of losses.

We know this is a cash burn business transition technology, whatever it is the losses that you're anticipating in the EV business of 4.5 billion

dollars this year, the worst of gaps?

LAWLER: Well, we're going to be very thoughtful about the investment, the pace of investment, our strategy's not changing. We also understand that,

you know, bringing these customers in as a first mover is important, but we're not going to go after volume at any cost. We're going to be

thoughtful about that.

Because at the end of the day, you know, we need to be stewards of capital. And that's what we're planning on doing. Right now, we see the pace that

we're on the adoption, the first mover advantage is being important. And we'll manage that as we go forward. But, you know, we're going to manage

the balance between growth, profitability and investment.

CHATTERLEY: One of the other things you have to manage is the supply chain, specifically when we're talking about EVs, the battery and the resources

that go into this. I know some of your executives have met with U.S. lawmakers to try and negotiate round the licensing agreement you have with

the Chinese carmaker CATL and some concerns about building a plant in Michigan. Is that going to be resolved?

LAWLER: Yes, I'm positive that that's going to be resolved. What this is doing is we have a fully Ford own factory in Michigan. And we're licensing

technology, battery technology that is only available from China. And this is good for consumers, because the cost of these batteries is much less.

So it's a Ford facility, it is Ford manufacturing employees. It's wholly owned by Ford. And we're licensing technology, bringing that technology to

the United States. It is not here and we think that's a good move. We're investing billions in Michigan in manufacturing in Michigan.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. And we can't let perhaps, geopolitics and political dysfunction get in the way of what's best for the consumer and for

technological development in this country, too.

LAWLER: Yes, and that's important, you know, bringing that technology here learning how to produce that technology. I think that's going to be

advantage for Ford and I think it's going to be advantage down the road here in the United States.

CHATTERLEY: One of the other potential stumbling blocks if I bring it back to the United States too.


And we've seen this for other companies, big companies in this country's negotiations with unions at a time of tightness in the labor market. I know

those negotiations have just started with auto workers. Should we be concerned about the risks potentially of strikes later on this year? And do

you have a contingency plan to mitigate it, if we have a worst case scenario?

LAWLER: Well, it's important to understand that Ford employs more UAW workers than anyone else and reproduce more vehicles in the United States

than anyone else. So it's really important for us to have a strong relationship with our workers in the union. I'm hopeful on this I think we

can work through things.

We have a good relationship with the union. And, you know, it's not appropriate for us to be talking about the negotiations in public, we'll do

it with our partners. But you know, I'm hopeful we'll be able to come to a positive solution overall, not only for our workers, but for us as a

company in the industry.

CHATTERLEY: Fingers crossed. And final line, John, I just want to get your take on what happened overnight with Fitch, the rating agency, lowering the

U.S. credit rating from AAA to AA+, I think in the past, this would have had far more of an effect perhaps than it had in terms of financial markets

and concern today.

But the message, I think, to lawmakers in this was my strongest takeaway, what do you make of it?

LAWLER: Well, I think you have to take away and you have to pause here because, you know, ultimately, this is going to force the capital to be

more expensive. And that's going to limit investment. And you know that the implications of that are broad. So we need to be thoughtful about how we're

approaching this?

What the root causes that's driving it? And then what the resolution is to avoid further situations like this? Because, you know, it's important that

we have the lowest cost of capital that we can so we can continue to invest. And that's important for our country and important for growth.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it makes perfect sense to me. Final word Ford today but Ford the future too, things to be excited about.

LAWLER: Absolutely, our future. You know, I've been at this company for over 30 years. And the future that we have now is beyond what I could have

imagined a few years ago, the move to digitization, the electrification future.

These vehicles are going to be something special that consumers are going to be blown away by as we start to launch our second generation of electric

vehicles in digital architecture. It's very exciting to be at the forefront of that and this transformation in this industry.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, robots on the road. That was yellow. Great to chat to you, John, thank you.

LAWLER: Thank you. Thank you so much.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you. OK, coming up on "First Move", Syrians contending with one disaster after another. Just a few months after a massive

earthquake hit the war torn nation now a new threat from wildfires. That's next.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", U.S. stocks are up and running and we can call it a wobbly Wednesday or perhaps a Fitch glitch, the major

averages software after the U.S. debt agencies surprise move to cut its U.S. credit rating by a notch. So that's from AAA to AA+.

The last time the U.S. suffered a debt downgrade more than 10 years ago, the S&P 500 actually fell some 7 percent. So that's your comparison.

Clearly, we don't expect anywhere near those kinds of losses this time around and as I've already mentioned, many economists also criticizing the

Fitch move.

And asking why now just on the financials alone, like debt levels, one could argue this is justified. The problem is this is America and it's a

different case. Also, this session perhaps a bit of nervousness too, ahead of Big Tech earnings on Thursday and the upcoming U.S. jobs report on


I just released report shows U.S. private sector jobs growth surpassing expectations by a wide margin last month, more than 300,000 jobs added

suggested continuing strength for the U.S. economy and the jobs market. Now, earlier in the show, we saw the chaos caused by flooding in China.

While meanwhile in Syria wildfires and are bringing destruction in areas already decimated by war and a massive earthquake, if you remember, earlier

this year, Eleni Giokos has this report.


ELENI GIOKOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A war, an earthquake and now a wildfire. Syrian farmer Izzadin Zuhaira has faced every one of these

disasters. His home as he told Reuters already damaged by war and also by February's earthquake. Now the orchids his only source of livelihood are

burned to ashes.

IZZADIN ZUHAIRA, SYRIAN FARMER: Hit left us with nothing at all. Now we need everything. We even need bread because we don't even have trees

anymore and nothing to spend.

GIOKOS (voice over): Like many parts of the Mediterranean region, Syria's Latakia province has been severely affected by wildfires in recent weeks.

Syria's Agriculture Minister says fires here burned for over five days before firefighters could get them under control.

MOHAMMAD HASSAN QATANA, SYRIAN AGRICULTURE MINISTER: Most of the fires have been well controlled. There are two to three locations we dealt with them

with all available capabilities.

GIOKOS (voice over): Firefighters also struggled to put out the fires and Syria's Homs and Hama provinces earlier this month, and Syria's White

Helmets of Volunteer Rescue and Emergency group also battled fires in Idlib province last week. As for the culprits, Zuhaira says extreme heat is to

blame for the destruction of his olive, pomegranates and walnut trees.

ZUHAIRA: I have never witnessed such weather the temperature has been very high during the past 15 to 20 days. And because trees and land are exposed

to high temperatures for a long time, they burned very quickly.

GIOKOS (voice over): Spokesperson for the International Committee of the Red Cross told Reuters Syria's war torn population is among the most

vulnerable to climate change.

SUHAIR ZAKKOUT, SPOKESPERSON FOR THE INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEE OF RED CROSS: Over a decade of conflict has made everything weak either infrastructure or

the resilience of people. If we mentioned that 30 percent of the food production of agricultural production is less due to the conflict and

climate change combined.

But these countries are unfortunately as mentioned, forgotten by when it comes to climate coping and adaptation and to climate action.

GIOKOS (voice over): Besides erratic rainfall and rising heat, the ICRC says dust storms, desertification and land loss have been impacting Syrian

farmers for years. Eleni Giokos, CNN.


CHATTERLEY: And finally on "First Move", NASA says it's basically shouting into space to try and re-establish contact with a 46 year old space probe.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have -- and we have -- Voyager spacecraft to extend man farther into the solar system than ever before.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were launched in 1977.



CHATTERLEY: Voyager 2 was launched in 1977 to study the other planets and it's now nearly 20 billion kilometers from Earth well beyond the limits of

our solar system. NASA is now listening to voyager's heartbeat as they call it with the help of an international array of giant antennas and radio

science groups.

Commands from NASA last month accidentally caused the cross antenna to point away from Earth, meaning communication was lost. NASA now hopes renew

commands can reset the antenna towards Earth. Although it admits unfortunately, the chances are low. It sounds like Voyager 2 might need a

hearing aid.

You know, sometimes I get told I need one of those two, particularly when I'm wrapped. I call it selective hearing. That's it for the show. If you've

missed any of our interviews today, they will be on my Twitter and Instagram pages you can search for @jchatterleycnn. "Connect the World" is

up next. I'll see you tomorrow.