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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Russian State Media Report all 10 People on Aircraft were Killed; 5- Nation Bloc Agrees to more than Double Membership; Wagner's Prigozhin Presumed Dead in Plane Crash; Nvidia Shares Soar on Strong Earnings; Zigzag Restaurant Remains Open During War; Strong Wind Cause Resurgence of Fires North of Athens. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired August 24, 2023 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: A warm welcome to the "First Move" great to have you with us this Thursday. Coming up over the next hour, Host
Prigozhin; the Kremlin remaining silent after the presumed death of Wagner Paramilitary Leader Yevgeny Prigozhin in a plane crash outside Moscow.
Questions abound over the future of Wagner and the possible implications for President Putin as a fierce critic departs the scene full coverage just
ahead. Plus dawn's deadline after the dawn less debate, Former President Trump set to surrender to Georgia authority's just hours from now for his
alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election results.
All this after his no show at the first Republican presidential face off Wednesday call it the Milwaukee spirited debate over support for Ukraine
abortion rights and economic policy too. Newcomer Vivek Ramaswamy a tech entrepreneur takes repeated hits for his lack of political experience and
his position on climate change Candidate Christie liking his policy responses to that of a chat bot.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CHRISTIE, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I had enough already tonight of a guy who sounds like ChatGPT standing up here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: I'm speaking of artificial intelligence, call it Nvidia ignition shares of the AI chip giant soaring in pre-market trade after a
phenomenal earnings report shares are set to rise at some 7 percent in trade today. Those numbers set to provide an early session boost to the
NASDAQ overall in fact and their forecasts for greater demand for their products suggest we're in the earliest innings of the artificial
As you can see on the screen in front of you here in the meantime mixed softer bond yields helping the market move overall though a weak European
dataset and a sizable downward revision in U.S. job schemes last year suggesting that central bankers perhaps can ease back on those rate hikes.
We'll get the scoop from Jackson Hole over the next 48 hours to see what they think and even an embattled -- shared session getting a boost too, the
HANG SENG higher by more than 2 percent its third street session advance.
And lots to get to as always, but first nearly 24 hours has passed since an aircraft believed to be carrying Wagner Group Leader Yevgeny Prigozhin and
two of his top lieutenants fell from the skies North of Moscow and so far, no word as I mentioned from the Kremlin.
Russian officials say Prigozhin was on the plane and state media reports nine others were also onboard. So far, only eight bodies have been found.
Nick Paton Walsh is with us now Zaporizhzhia in Ukraine.
Nick, the truth is we may never know officially what happened here. But what we do know is a challenge to President Putin is presumed gone and also
someone who rode devastation in Ukraine and elsewhere around the world presumed gone.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Julia I think increasingly we know officially from the Russians what they
would like the world to hear about this their statements that Prigozhin along with frankly some of the key parts of Wagner's sort of henchmen are
in a coterie around Prigozhin were all on that plane and it appears have all lost their lives.
But that is something it's very hard to get definitive independent confirmation of. You mentioned there how only eight of the 10 bodies of
those on board have been recovered from the two kilometer wide area in which wreckage has fallen. And that wreckage of course, frankly quite
horrific as you would normally expect after a plane catastrophe of this magnitude.
The plane seen in the skies wing falling off after an explosion and then hurtling towards the ground startling, I think many observers would say
that all of Wagner's key elite felt safe enough in Russia after their failed armed rebellion almost exactly two months ago from the plane fell
out of the sky that they all wanted to travel together on the same private jet.
And of course, regardless of the fact that we don't know at this stage, all the key details and Russian investigators have been seen visiting the scene
and apparently driving in their technical cars back to the fair forensics bureau where we imagine identification of these bodies will become a more
gruesome scientific reality.
There is still of course now immediately in here in Ukraine and across Russia fingers being pointed as to who may have been behind this the
predominant suspect of course, the Kremlin Head, Russian President Vladimir Putin is the fact he said nothing about this at all since it happened more
indicative of that possibility or less we don't know.
But ultimately the truth is something that Kremlin will manipulate here and present to the public in the way that they wish and Putin was seen at a
World War II remember or site just as this incident did occur, perhaps burnishing his credentials with war of veterans.
But an important moment for Putin, he clearly if indeed he is behind this, felt that Prigozhin was a greater threat of life that his continued sort of
impotent survival after that failed on rebellion two months ago was a greater threat to the Kremlin than the possible ramifications he may feel
from Wagner and Prigozhin loyalists in the days and weeks ahead.
Now they've seen their figurehead it appears killed or dead, at least in this horrific fashion. The European Union and the French government still
suggesting it's hard to draw immediate conclusions from that little evidence, indeed, that we do have.
But none of this stops the narrative gaining pace amongst the Kremlin's critics against those in Ukraine here who believes simply, this is Putin
cleaning house, albeit in a late fashion after that armed rebellion.
Remember, the Wagner mercenaries marched to Moscow, essentially saying they wanted to replace the Russian top brass for their appalling conduct and
running of the war, but eventually finding that move snowballed into a broader confrontation with Putin.
The biggest Putin's had in his 23 years in power and Prigozhin, many observers of the Kremlin felt miraculously appeared to survive in public.
Even meeting with Putin claimed, his spokesperson claimed after that failed armed rebellion.
So this untimely demise whatever the full details that we don't know yet, wrapping up potentially that question as to how one of these key Putin
critics the only man really to confront Putin, in this way, in his over two decades in power, remained at liberty. Clearly, that has now changed,
CHATTERLEY: Yes, the biggest mystery here, perhaps that he remained at large for so long after this. Nick, I just want to get your comments and
what you know about the situation in Ukraine at this moment.
I think the officials there keen to point out that the war does go on and some form of progress is being made, including operations against Russian
military facilities in Crimea. Russian occupied Crimea, of course. Can you tell us any more about that?
WALSH: Yes. Minimal details available, but some startling video released by the Ukrainian military showing what appears to have been an amphibious
landing on a part of the Crimean peninsula itself.
This coincides with Ukraine's Independence Day, perhaps a degree of military flag-waving almost to suggest that this Special Forces are able to
reach a peninsula that's quite dear frankly to Vladimir Putin's heart and was annexed by Russia illegally in 2014.
But it's an interesting turn in this story here where the death of Prigozhin has significantly overshadowed the events on the Ukrainian
battlefield. Here's a little more of what we know about Yevgeny Prigozhin.
WALSH (voice-over): He had always lived in the shadows until the war in Ukraine made him perhaps the most public Russian critic of how the
Kremlin's war was fought. The possibility Yevgeny Prigozhin is dead, is a shockwave to an already shaken system.
Putin's critics rarely survive as long as he did, and the talk in Russia and Ukraine that Putin might still have wanted to kill him assign the chaos
in Moscow he caused was not over. He led the most brazen affront to Putin's rule in his 23 years at the helm, taking an armed rebellion into the
southern stronghold of Rostov on Don, marching on Moscow and then abruptly turning around.
The apparent reason, a deal brokered by Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko, Putin saved here by a neighboring ruler, he usually treated
with contempt. The deal was opaque; perhaps involving the fighters of the group Prigozhin led Wagner moving to Belarus.
It's unclear how much that happened. And then Prigozhin appeared already surviving a long time for a Putin challenger popping up in Africa this
week, saying he would expand Russia's influence there. It would have been another turn in his remarkable and sorted career.
Initially, Putin's Chef he became a military contractor supplying food then expanded into influence operations in the United States trying to meddle in
key elections, all deniable, all damaging to Putin's enemies.
Is Wagner Group expanded too from 2014? CNN has tracked them mercenaries operating in the Central African Republic, Sudan, Libya, Mozambique, Mali
and Syria, as well as Ukraine with an army of tens of thousands battle hardened and in Ukraine, always savage fighting hardest around Bakhmut, and
always expanding, recruiting convicts from Russian prisons to be used as apparent Cannon Fodder on the front lines, executing alleged traitors,
apparently with a sledgehammer.
It may never be definitively known who died in this wreckage. Even transparent investigators would struggle to find the right DNA. Instead, we
will have Russian state investigators and media's word, the very people whose boss Prigozhin enraged.
WALSH (on camera): Now, we will of course, always have probably enduring questions about this. We haven't even to hear from the Wagner Group itself
on their official channels that they believe Prigozhin is dead and remember too is not just Prigozhin it's one of the key founding members.
Dmitri Utkin and many other individuals in -- sanctioned by the United States who were reported to have been on that plane too. A startling moment
frankly, for the demise of this Russian paramilitary organization and a startling turn too for those around Vladimir Putin showing if indeed it is
the case that Kremlin was behind this that you simply don't survive crossing Putin.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, some might call it a clean sweep. Thank you, Nick Paton Walsh there in Zaporizhzhia, Ukraine. Now Moscow court is refusing to free
Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich. Their court extended his detention for another three months on Thursday, while he awaits trial on
espionage charges. Gershkovich was arrested in March and is the first American journalist to be held by Russia on spying charges since the Soviet
Now also today a big win for Russia and China in the closing hours of the BRICS Summit in South Africa the five member nation bloc agreeing to more
than double its membership. Beijing and Moscow had been key proponents of enlarging the group Saudi Arabia, Iran, Ethiopia, the UAE and Argentina
could soon be in the club.
But will the BRICS expansion click with all members? David McKenzie is live for us in Johannesburg where the BRICS Summit took place. We've added too
many vowels here and not enough consonants. I don't know what we're going to call them after this.
It certainly adds financial firepower, I think, in some more for diversity to this group, but you called them odd bedfellows, the BRICS earlier this
week, and I think that emphasizes this term with this collection, what can be achieved in practice?
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think that's a very good question. And yes, if you look at Iran and Saudi Arabia
potentially being in the same grouping, starting in January, that is certainly politically very odd bedfellows, they would barely speak to each
other until China brought them together in recent months.
So yes, the key will be Julia whether these countries can actually cooperate in a way that has meaningful political clout on the world stage.
On paper it certainly is a powerful collection of so called Global South nations, from all over the world. Interestingly, no additions in Southeast
Asia, and I'm sure China and India have something to do with that.
There has been a lot of talk during these past few days about de- dollarization. And that was obliquely brought up again, in the final statement. You know, financial experts say that is a long shot, at the very
least to try and move the international monetary system away from dollar based transactions.
But I think thematically it is important that these countries are pushing it and certainly is, as you alluded to a big win for Russia, which has been
frozen out of banking systems because of its invasion of Ukraine. The UN Secretary General was in attendance today. And it was interesting that he
used this expansion of BRICS and the criticism of multilateral organizations to warn that they needed to reform or die basically.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONIO GUTERRES, UNITED NATION SECRETARY- GENERAL: For multilateral institutions to remain truly universal they must reform to reflect today's
power and economic realities, and not the power and economic realities of the post Second World War. In the absence of such reform, fragmentation is
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKENZIE: With those major oil producing countries joining, you could see cash flowing in more directly and with greater volume into the BRICS Bank,
the New Development Bank, I guess, in that sense, you could have a practical way to compete with the World Bank and the IMF, in the future.
But I think that's a bit down the line. I think what is significant here is that they made this expansion and they announced it at this meeting. It
wasn't a more sought out at least public process beyond this meeting. They have been discussing this for some time, but certainly this will be seen as
a win for China and Russia and some of the other countries perhaps dragged over the line. We'll have to see how it actually pans out Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, but your point about adding big energy players are that I think a very important one if there's some way that they can pay for energy
flows within this group and alternative currencies to the U.S. dollar and that could be pretty potent if?
David McKenzie in Johannesburg there, thank you. Now Former President Donald Trump is set to surrender himself to Fulton County authorities in
Georgia today. That's where he and his 18 co-defendants face charges related to efforts to overturn the 2020 U.S. election.
This is the fourth criminal indictment of the Former President this year alone. Nick Valencia joins us from outside Fulton County Jail. Nick, what
are we expecting to see from the President today?
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Julia, the Former President finds himself in legal peril having been indicted four times in the last five
months, but it's in this indictment for the first time that he will have to surrender to be arrested as well as pay bond. When he walks through those
doors in the Fulton County Jail later this evening, he'll be doing so for the first time as a criminal defendant in this sprawling investigation,
CHATTERLEY: Nick, great to -- sorry Nick. OK, so you've sort of laid out the challenges that Donald Trump faces and this is just the fourth in a row
as we're expecting. You will also have the chance to see others coming in and out of the court, particularly yesterday, including the Former New York
Mayor in particular.
And you asked him a particularly potent question, I think, in terms of financing and how he actually managed to get to the court yesterday? Just
talk us through some of the conversations that you were having with other co-defendants in this case?
VALENCIA: That's right. There's been a flurry of activity here outside the Fulton County Jail. We've seen multiple defendants so far, a total of nine
of the Former President's codefendants have turned him in. And it was yesterday perhaps the most notable name other than the Former President on
those codefendants list was Rudy Giuliani, the Former Mayor of New York.
A man who at one time was said to be America's Mayor, but now finds himself on the other side of the justice system. And it's really interesting Julia,
because we had been told up until this point that he was seeking help trying to get people to pay for his legal fees and then yet he showed up
here in Atlanta on a private jet and when we talked to him as he was released after his arrest.
We asked him that who paid for his private jet? He did not answer that. And he went on to play the victim saying that he's being essentially indicted
for trying to help the Former President as a lawyer. He called himself the -- you know, one of the best prosecutors in American history.
And he challenged those to find a prosecutor with a better record in the last hundred years. He went on to pair it with Donald Trump, the Former
President has said about this investigation, calling it political in nature. And then he left. We asked him several questions that he did not
One what was it like to be on the other side of the justice system? And also, you know, if he's had any communication with the Former President,
and if he still believes this election was rigged, those questions he did not answer, and he kept it.
You know, he got back in his car and then the next thing we know he showed up at a bail bondsman. So we expect more defendants to turn themselves in
later today, the biggest, of course, the biggest name being Donald Trump.
But it was on Wednesday that a U.S. district judge ruled that his Former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows as well as Ex-DOJ official Jeffrey Carr, who
Jeff Clark, who were trying to move their state proceedings to federal court. They have their delay their motion to try to delay their surrender
denied by a judge.
So they're going to have to turn themselves in and the clock is running on this. They'll have a lesson 24 hours by noon, tomorrow is when they have to
turn themselves in and they have to still work out those bond agreements. So we are still waiting for more activity here outside the Fulton County
CHATTERLEY: We certainly are, the crescendo later today, of course with Former President. Nick Valencia thank you so much for that. OK straight
ahead, a challenger to President Putin's monopoly on power Wagner Chief Yevgeny Prigozhin is presumed dead. The question is Putin stronger or
weaker for it? Prominent Russian American Writer and Putin Critic Masha Gessen is in.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", I'm returning to our top story today in the fate of Wagner group leader Yevgeny Prigozhin. Russian
Aviation Officials say he was traveling on a plane that crashed near Moscow on Wednesday. State media reports 10 people were onboard the flight and
that so far eight bodies have been found.
This comes after General Sergey Surovikin was dismissed as Head of Russia's Aerospace Forces. He hasn't been seen in public since Prigozhin's short-
lived rebellion fueling unconfirmed rumors of his detention. Our next guest is a Writer for The New Yorker, an outspoken Putin critic and the Author of
Masha Gessen joins us now, Masha, great to have you on the show. I think few people would buy that this was an accident, even if we never end up
knowing the truth two months to the day since the coup took place. Prigozhin and his top lieutenants on this plane, a Russian General
dismissed on the same day, there are a lot of coincidences there.
MASHA GESSEN, STAFF WRITER FOR THE NEW YORKER: Assuming that Prigozhin really wasn't a point which I would assume, but a lot of people of course,
are second guessing this, wondering if this is a ploy to have him safely disappear. But yes, this reads like, like, what's his response to the coup.
And there's a lot of Putin in this response, right, there is the murder by aircraft, which is an old, Soviet and post-Soviet tradition. It's not quite
as common as murder by Putin, but it's been known to happen before. And it's the two month break between the actual coup and what appears to be a
reaction to it.
And this is very much in Putin's bureaucratic style. He takes a pause. He creates the appearance of having considered this and maybe even followed
some kind of procedure, if there is indeed a procedure for having people killed. And then, on the same day, he removes the General who, as you
mentioned, hasn't actually been on public in two months, who is largely blamed, I think.
In the Kremlin, for allowing this conflict between the military of defense and Prigozhin's to fester, and more important for allowing Prigozhin's
troops to move unhampered through Russia on their way to Moscow during the failed mutiny two months ago and of course, Prigozhin and his top commander
of Wagner, Dmitry Utkin whose nickname is Wagner. They're both presumed out.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. It's interesting in an interview earlier this year, Vladimir Putin was asked about forgiveness. And he said leaders must be
able to forgive but that not everything can be forgiven, and the interviewer said what can't be forgiven and he said betrayal.
From what we know of Prigozhin and Putin they're sort of similar in that way, both ruthless. The idea that someone was disloyal would be met with
this kind of response, potentially. I think for most people, the greatest surprise was that Prigozhin Continue to be at large after this. And it goes
to your point about timing. Do you think Prigozhin was complacent that he trusted Putin?
Not to remove him in the way that we have seen in the past or at least allegedly seen in the past other competitors are taken out of the picture?
GESSEN: You know we humans have boundless capacity to deceive ourselves. I have no inside track on this, but I imagined that it was easy for Prigozhin
should think that, yes, there was an assumption made for him but even though Putin called him a traitor on Russian television.
He wanted television while Prigozhin through promotion to Moscow, who's in went on television, and called because in the traitor from that point on,
Prigozhin was a dead man. But I think Prigozhin knew in his heart that he wasn't a traitor. He was just trying to get Putin's here, his school was
He thought that the military operation as they call it was not going well. He thought that Putin was making bad decisions. He thought that Putin's
generals were making bad decisions. He wanted to get to Moscow, to have a sit down with Putin about the war. This was the origin of his school.
And I think he probably believed that, as again, we humans tend to believe that everybody sees the world exactly the way we see the world. Finally,
the fact that he was ostensibly banished to Belarus, but clearly had total freedom of movement within Russia, and between Russia and Belarus, probably
suggested to Prigozhin that he was -- .
CHATTERLEY: He also had, to your point, numerous allies in the Russian military and among Putin's aides, I think, who oppose the war, or were
concerned about the way that the wars headed. Do these officials now speak out? Or do you think what we've seen here?
Whoever was behind it? Quells some of the dissension, I guess the question that I'm asking in a more pointed manner is Putin safer or more vulnerable
as a result of what's taken place in the last 24 hours?
GESSEN: I think we're going to safer, I think the message that he has sent out, is, look, any attempt to go up against me, even if it is framed as an
attempt to just get my ear is punishable by death. If Prigozhin's mutiny opened up the possibility of a coup in Russia, if it communicated to
people, that something like this was actually possible that Russians might have some semblance of a choice.
Although, you know, God forbid, you have to choose between someone like Putin and someone like Prigozhin. And you know, I should note here that no,
Prigozhin was not opposed to the war. No, are his allies as opposed to the war. Prigozhin thought that the war was not being prosecuted decisively
He thought that if he'd had the reins, he would have been able to take over Ukraine in a few days. So he just thought the Putin's generals were
uncomfortable. But anyway, I think the message that it sends as if you thought that something like this was possible, but dissent was possible,
that criticism was possible that God forbid armed uprising was possible. This is how it ends. It ends with death. And it ends with death scarily
enough, when you least expect it.
CHATTERLEY: I just wonder in terms of the vulnerability for President Putin, whether this further restricts the information, passage up to him,
particularly bad news, whether it's the war or anything else, you're going to be that much more reluctant to have bad news -- Putin?
GESSEN: That's a great question, but yes, that's a great question. But I think it's actually pretty hard to imagine restricting the flow of
information further than it's already restricted. Putin for years has been hurt, hearing only what he wants to hear only from a very small group of
people who have access to him and who never want to bring him bad news. So I don't see how this can make a significant difference. He is as isolated
as dictators get, and he has been for years.
CHATTERLEY: And he's presumed to have one less of those people today. Masha, great to chat to you, thank you. Masha Gessen there!
GESSEN: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: We're back up to this, stay with us.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", U.S. stocks up and running this Thursday and a mostly higher open on this Jackson Hole Eve on Wall Street,
Global investors eagerly awaiting key speeches from Jerome Powell and European Central Bank Head Christine Lagarde.
That's at the Feds annual symposium in the United States, State of Wyoming on Friday. While they certainly pause in rate hikes going forward as
inflation eases some anticipating what's known as hawkish pause, which would continue to keep investors on their toes aka, we stand ready to do
what it takes if things spark higher again.
In the meantime, shares of artificial intelligence chip maker Nvidia, a key reason for today's NASDAQ advance its shares rallying after strong second
quarter results, sales rising more than 170 percent. Nvidia also saying it sees no demand slowdown in sight. Clare Duffy joins us now.
Clare, I'm stealing the headlines from you. The net income line, actually, for me was the most eye watering part up 422 percent on the same time last
year, and don't even get me started on the margins, wowzers.
CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Yes, it is really stunning, Julia. This just absolutely blew analyst's expectations out of the water and really
blew Nvidia's own expectations out of the water. The company talks about the fact that this AI boom is really causing the company to grow even
faster than it even could, you know, it could have predicted.
This is a company that makes these microchips that are purpose built for artificial intelligence, and in particular, the generative AI that fuels
tools like ChatGPT, which are really only in their early stages of taking off. I thought it was interesting. The company also noted that the world
has a trillion dollars' worth of data centers.
That are all in the process of transitioning to artificial intelligence workloads, and Nvidia is really going to be the beneficiary of a lot of
that transition. This is a company that really doesn't have competitors that are able to keep up with what its technology can do at this point.
The CEO said the race to adopt generative AI is on and Nvidia really is going to take a lot of that business the company is expecting revenue for
the current quarter to again more than double year over year. And so I think for Nvidia at this point, the question is really can it continue to
meet these now much higher expectations its valuation has grown so much.
And can it continue to meet all of this demand, the company talked a bit about the fact that it's investing in ramping up production, ramping up
capacity. And that's something that it's going to have to continue to invest in, because, again, we're really only still in the early stages,
despite the fact that these results are so stunning. We're really only in the early stages of this AI boom. CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's such a great point.
Everyone else is ramping up spending an investment on this. These are basically the only ones really, aside from a few others that are managing
to monetize on real scale. What's your sense of whether they can continue to meet this?
Because certainly what I got from these results was that they were saying, look, this is about a supply issue, and we're going to try and meet it
versus any kind of demand problem at this stage. No worries.
DUFFY: Absolutely. Yes, I mean, I think I think the company is talking about the fact that they're ramping up production, they're working with
their production partners to make sure that they can meet all of this demand, I think, certainly, you know, you can imagine there may be some
bumps in the road over the next couple of months.
But again, this is still early stages for them in their ability to take advantage of this huge transition. They referred to it as their iPhone
moment, you know, this really transformational technology wave that's taking off. And so I think, you know, there's huge potential for this
company going forward.
And, you know, you're talking about some of these economic jitters that a lot of companies are having right now. I think this is one space where they
don't have to worry about that so much companies are making this transition to AI whether they like it or not right now, and Nvidia is really going to
be able to take advantage of a lot of that.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, what does it mean for our business? A lot of questions are being asked, Nvidia monopolizing on that certainly, Clare Duffy, thank you.
Still to come here on "First Move", celebrating Independence in the face of war, I'll speak to one restaurant owner about Ukraine's Independence Day
and fighting misinformation, when we return, next.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", for the second year running Ukraine celebrating its Independence Day in the Shadow of War. President
Volodymyr Zelenskyy marked the occasion calling it "a holiday of strong people."
A holiday of people with dignity and in the face of conflict, resilience businesses are still open many of them are supporting Ukrainians too on the
front lines. A restaurant in Kyiv called Zigzag just one of them. They mark the day with a post on Instagram saying in part our independence is a
symbol of freedom, and struggle for key human values and rights.
And joining us now is Liubov Tsybulska she may remember her, from the last time we spoke. She is the Owner of Zigzag. She's also the Founder of the
Center for Strategic Communication and Information Security of Ukraine, also known as the StratCom Center. Liubov, welcome once again to the show.
Just explain what this day means in particular?
LIUBOV TSYBULSKA, OWNER OF ZIGZAG: Thank you so much for having me. I think that with each person here this day, has more and more significance for us,
because we understand how high the price for our independence is, because every day and probably every hour, someone gives his or her life for our
So today, there are many people in Kyiv. And they are in a very festive moment. Despite the error rates around that we had just an hour ago, people
were a national Ukrainian close with Nuzhnenko, as you can see on me, and people congratulate each other. And people say that it's a very, very
special day. And now we understand how unique and special it is even more.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's importantly meaning to it. I mean, we've emphasized the independence that you've shown in challenging times with your various
jobs and your roles. But it's also personal for you because you chose to stay in key leave, but you sent your children away. And we're not going to
discuss where they are? It was deferred for safety reasons, but just describe, what that's like and how often you see them?
TSYBULSKA: I see them once in a while, once in the months or months and a half. And obviously, it's very difficult and there is no one single family
in Ukraine that was not affected by the war. Everyone lost someone, someone were killed or injured or missed or separated.
So I see this as the necessity, I understand that I have to be here, I have to fight for my country. And I have to do everything possible to be able to
bring my kids back. So that's why we all have to sacrifice something. And so far, my sacrifice is having my kids away and seeing them not very often.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, but you've also lost, I believe friends and former colleagues of the restaurant too.
TSYBULSKA: Yes, and among my team at Zigzag. Some people were conscripted to the armed forces. Some people left the country, especially female
members. But yes, I have some friends who were killed. One of them is Ukrainian famous writer, Victoria Amelina. She was killed, she was a
civilian, and she went to Kramatorsk.
And she was sitting in the pizza place, pizza restaurant. And when Russia hit it was missile and she was killed there. This is something that all
Ukrainians have to bear now. But we understand that we have to survive and not survive just physically, not withstand just physically but also
culturally, also economically. That's why we stay here and work and fight.
CHATTERLEY: Yes -- in the face of loss. Talk to me about the support that you also provide from the revenues from Zigzag to the military, in
particular, because I know you're helping them finance drone purchases.
TSYBULSKA: Yes, when the worst started big war, as we say because the war started back in 2014. But when the big war started, we began to volunteer
and to prepare meals for our armed forces for our territorial forces for our doctors and elderly people in the city. So we were preparing 700
portions of meals per day.
And now we donate but everybody is donating in Ukraine right now. We delayed and we collect money for drones. Our armed forces need drones on
the ground. So this is very important for us, it's very strong movement in Ukraine right now to donate and collect for drones.
CHATTERLEY: I mean I know you're not the only business clearly that's doing that. Is that support sort of stronger than ever that hasn't wavered over
the past year and a half because it's challenging to keep up the final support, their financial support and run a business?
TSYBULSKA: It is not easy to be honest around business in Ukraine right now, because many people left and also because Russia carries out missiles
attacks, basically every day. So it's not very safe. But of course, Kyiv is much safer place than other cities, because we have American by the way,
air defense systems, patriot systems, so we feel much more protected right now.
But generally, I would say that it's the support for the armed forces are very stable, it's very strong. We don't have other choice. We don't have
other way except we're standing in winning this word. So and today, when people raise the glass of sparkling wine or something, they always say to
CHATTERLEY: Yes, to life beyond this. Can I ask you about what happened in the past 24 hours? I'm utilizing your sort of NGO StratCom Center now and
understanding information and misinformation with the presumed death of Yevgeny Prigozhin that the Wagner Chief and just how you see Russia and
Vladimir Putin himself utilizing this?
TSYBULSKA: I think that it's something that Prigozhin should have had in mind when he wrote withdrawing forces from Moscow, because Putin never
forgives. He always kills his opponents. He always kills those who go against him. But I see that in Ukraine, for instance, this use didn't take
a lot of coverage.
It means that Prigozhin is not the figure that is important for us. But in Russia, we noticed that many people feel sorry for him. Many people like
Prigozhin, unlike by the way Navalny who's the leader of liberal movement, Prigozhin had a lot of sympathizers and now they say that it was not right
to get rid of him in this way.
CHATTERLEY: Do you think that makes a difference? Do you think the sympathy that Prigozhin had in Russia makes any kind of sort of difference to how
they view Vladimir Putin?
TSYBULSKA: I don't really think so unless Russians feel on themselves this war. They don't change their opinion on Vladimir Putin. But yes, we see
that majority of Russians unfortunately, they support this work. They really like the leader. They really like the dictator they have in the
But it also proves that if they like Prigozhin, it means that this type of leader is strong as they say and cruel at some point figure. This is
somebody that the Russians really like. And they want to have someone like this.
CHATTERLEY: And that's a message in that. Liubov, thank you so much for joining us today and our thoughts with you on Independence Day, and your
friends and family of course too.
TSYBULSKA: Thank you so much.
CHATTERLEY: The Owner of the restaurant Zigzag, thank you. OK, after the break. Desperate efforts to tame wildfires in Greece's high winds fanned
the flames. We'll take you there, next.
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move", Beijing is banning all seafood imports from neighboring Japan. Heightening tensions after Tokyo's
controversial decision to begin releasing treated wastewater from the Fukushima Nuclear Plant. Marc Stewart has the details.
MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The release of the treated wastewater is now underway. This will be a lengthy process that could take years to
complete a move that's prompted controversy.
CNN visited the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Plant in April we saw the tanks that collectively have been holding enough water to fill 500 Olympic-sized
swimming pools. At the center of the controversy, a radioactive isotope called tritium. For now there is no technology to remove it, and space is
running out in massive storage tanks.
But authorities stressed the water from Fukushima will be highly diluted and released slowly over decades, meaning the concentration of tritium
being released will be very low and meets international regulations. Still, many nations are expressing reservations including China.
WANG WENBIN, CHINESE MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: It is unjustified, unreasonable and unnecessary for Japan to push through the ocean discharge
plan. We urge Japan not to shift the risk of nuclear pollution onto the rest of humanity in pursuit of its selfish interests.
STEWART: The skepticism is also been felt here in Tokyo, where some protesters are concerned about the impacts of the move including the
effects on the fishing industry. The discharge won't be without supervision. Local Power Company has pledged to monitor the discharge for
decades to come. Marc Stewart, CNN, Tokyo.
CHATTERLEY: And strong winds have caused resurgence in wildfires north of Athens. The Greek Fire Department says the winds picked up early Thursday
morning and that residents were asked to leave the area. Eleni Giokos joins us now from Athens. Eleni and I can already see scenes of fire devastation
ELENI GIOKOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Devastation, dystopia, heartbreak, seeing what is supposed to be the lungs of Athens turning to charcoal, I'm
actually watching a helicopter above. And I'm monitoring to see where they're dropping water and the fire department still tells us that the fire
is active here in Parnitha.
We're not allowed to move closer to the fire because it's actually so deep in the mountain. It seems stable from where we are, but we're told do not
be fooled. The fire is still ongoing. You can see I don't see you know, we're not experiencing a lot of wind. We had bad winds yesterday.
Julia, I was setting up for a live shots yesterday morning, and then suddenly a huge fire erupted behind me. It shows her rapidly, how quickly
fires can spread with the assistance of wind. I spoke to a Governor of Civil Defense a little earlier who explained what it was like for
firefighters last night. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VASSILIS KOKKALIS, DEPUTY REGIONAL GOVERNOR OF ATTICA: It was a very difficult night for firefighters after 1:30 am, the fire gain momentum
spreading fast until about six in the morning, it was very difficult. Once we were able to resume aerial assistance in the morning, the situation
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIOKOS: So Julia, you can see where it's green behind me. This mountain is supposed to be filled with lush, beautiful trees. And as you can see, it's
been destroyed. This isn't the only act of fire in Greece. Right now we're in Parnitha. There's another area -- just 40 kilometers from here.
That is because of -- . That happened this morning in Alexandroupoli, where we saw really devastating images of those 18 bodies that were found that
area has been burning for over three days. That is still on the go of Viotia which is 100 kilometers from Athens active fires as well.
This has been a record season of fire, wildfires across Greece and you can see that the resources are absolutely not enough to contend with the
intensity on the ground. I'm sorry, the smoke inhalation over the past day or so, Julia, has been very difficult. It's filled with smog. It's filled
with particles, it is polluting the air.
This is supposed to be a carbon base and a protection for the city of Athens. It is absolutely difficult to experience. We've also had burning of
homes that we witnessed yesterday locals having to flee their livelihoods generally are very, very difficult couple of days.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, the Climate Crisis and Civil Protection minister I saw him say that firefighting teams were making superhuman efforts to try and
CHATTERLEY: We wish them well stay safe. Eleni there, thank you so much for that, Eleni Giokos in Athens. And that's it for the show. If you've missed
any of our interviews today, there'll be on my X and Instagram pages. You can search for @jchatterleycnn. "Connect the World" is up next. We'll see