Return to Transcripts main page

First Move with Julia Chatterley

Trump Criminal Trial; Trump Trial Jury Selected; More Alternates Needed for Trump Trial; Two Jurors Dismissed; Gaza Damaged for Decades to Come; Middle East Crisis; Iran Warns of "Decisive Response"; Speaker Johnson Facing New Threats. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired April 18, 2024 - 18:00   ET



JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST: It's 5:00 a.m. in Jakarta, 7:00 a.m. in Tokyo, and 6:00 p.m. here in New York. I'm Julia Chatterley. And wherever you are

in the world, this is your "First Move."

A welcome to "First Move." And here's today's need to know. We have a jury. The judge in Donald Trump's hush money trial marked swift progress with 12

jurors and one alternate in place after day three.

Tsunami scare. Indonesia raising the alarm as Mount Ruang erupts.

And a Swiftie split. Taylor Swift fans divided on whether to take a sneak peek as her new album allegedly leaks online. All that and much more coming


But first, major news from the criminal hush money trial against Donald Trump. A full 12-person jury has now been seated. It consists of seven men

and five women. We had started the day with seven seated jurors. Two were then dismissed, with one of them expressing concerns about her identity

becoming public.

Trump also spoke from the courthouse in the past hour, again, stressing his innocence.


DONALD TRUMP (R), REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm supposed to be in New Hampshire. I'm supposed to be in Georgia. I'm supposed to be in North

Carolina, South Carolina. I'm supposed to be in a lot of different places campaigning. But I've been here all day on a trial that really is a very

unfair trial.


CHATTERLEY: Legal analyst and former U.S. Attorney Michael Moore is back on the show with us to discuss progress. It seemed this morning, Michael, that

we were going backwards. We had seven potential jurors seated. Then we went back to five. And now, we've got 12 plus an alternate. Swift progress.

MICHAEL MOORE, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I'm glad to be with you again. It is swift. And frankly, swifter than I thought it would be. The judge has

sort of kept people to a timeline and he's pushing through to get this jury seated. He will now pick the alternates -- the lawyers will pick the

alternates. He'll preside over that. And presumably we'll have a full slate certainly by Monday. Could be as early as tomorrow afternoon. We'll see how

quickly they go through with the alternate selection process.

You know, I do think there is still some caution to be exercised and that is that you don't want to have expediency put over, making sure that the

jury selection process is bulletproof on appeal but -- and there may be a couple of calls that he has made that may be questioned later. But

nonetheless, this case has moved forward more quickly than I thought.

CHATTERLEY: And what we also learned today was both the defense and the prosecution are now striked out. They've used up their 10 strikes to remove

potential jurors. So, now, it comes down to if they've got a problem with one of these jurors, they have to find cause and they have to argue that

point based on what they're saying, which is interesting based on what we heard earlier about the two jurors that were either excused or removed.

One of which was concerned about details leaking and people knowing ultimately who she is. She said she was contacted by friends and colleagues

asking her if she was a juror. Surely, based on the information that we've gotten as time goes on, containing this information gets harder, Michael. I

sort of worry less about that now than I do as this case continues.

MOORE: You know, I think it's unlikely that the jurors will remain anonymous throughout the end of the case. You know, there's nothing that

prohibits a juror from speaking after the trial. And so, that's the kind of interview that can be given that could lead to figuring out who other

jurors may have been, even those who wish that their names not be made public. So, I can understand that.

I also think that jurors need to recognize that probably, for at least a short period after the time of trial, their life may not be their own

because certainly, there will be efforts to dig in and find out who they are and then to do interview requests as well.

I'm less concerned. I think about just the notoriety generally in New York with people who may wish to be bad actors as it relates to the identity of

the jurors, but I certainly think their information and their names and interview requests will be coming forth readily shortly after the case.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, shortly after the case, at least then you have a verdict and a decision whether or not there's appeal and then

complications. I guess my bigger concern is that, again, the longer that people are off work or that people notice that they're off work Monday,

Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, of course, Wednesday, they don't sit the questions to get asked. And if these people aren't then anonymous, they're

more open to persuasion, influence, perhaps in the worst-case, intimidation.


Michael, I sort of worry less about the ones that are willing to give an interview than people perhaps working out that, you know, this is not what

it was cracked up to be at the beginning.

MOORE: Yes, and I think they may find that. I mean, you know, and you may find, again, for those who are willing to give an interview that they may

disclose information about people who were not willing to --


MOORE: -- give an interview. But certainly, during the pendency of the case, and as this goes on, I mean, their absence from work and other things

will be noticed. You know, but maybe a larger problem in a case it takes this long and with this much notoriety, I mean, you can't turn on the TV or

read any newspaper, do anything else, click on a website without something about the case popping up. And that is, can they remain essentially

detached from those kinds of outside influences for this length of time.


MOORE: There's always a concern in a case that jurors, you know, that they are not exposed to commentary and other influences that might shape how

they view the evidence and they're supposed to make their decision based solely on the evidence at trial.

And so, that -- that's always a concern with any kind of case where there's such generated interest in the local news.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. I'm sort of worrying about problems before we've even got to the point of starting the trial, quite frankly, Michael. But just the

evidence of the day gives me concern about what follows. Great to have you. No doubt we'll have you back. There's going to be more twists and turns.

MOORE: Sure.

CHATTERLEY: Michael Moore, thank you for your time this evening.

MOORE: Always good to be with you.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you. Now, in other news, damaged for decades to come. That's the assessment of Gaza from the U.N. senior humanitarian envoy

there. Secret cargo (ph) also said the destruction of roads and lack of fuel is making it extremely difficult to distribute aid.

A reminder that earlier this month, a report from the U.N. and World Bank said more than 90 percent of the main roads in Gaza either damaged or

destroyed. More than 80 percent of health facilities are damaged or down entirely. And that water and sanitation systems are running at just 5

percent capacity.

Now, this comes as we await Israel's response to the Iranian strikes over the weekend. And speaking at the U.N. Security Council in the past few

hours, Iran's foreign minister said any further Israeli military action would be met with a decisive response.

Nic Robertson is in Jerusalem for us. Nic, good to have you with us. Let's talk about aid, because you and I have discussed this in the past. Just

getting aid to Gaza is one challenge, but then distributing it within the Strip, clearly a huge challenge too.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It is. And one of the challenges faced is that there is not U.N. structures on the ground in the

north of Gaza. I was speaking today with the head of UNOCHA, that's the U.N.'s main humanitarian body, their chief here, based in the region

overseas. Gaza, who are very familiar with the situation there, and he said, look, we evacuated all of our staff out of Northern Gaza on October

the 12th.

So, even though Israel is saying and is beginning to open a tiny amount at a northern border crossing direct into the north of Gaza, as we've been

hearing there, that the roads are blown up, but there aren't even the U.N. People on the ground to oversee that distribution. 300,000 to 400,000

people there. Estimated many of them to be very close to malnutrition.

I asked the UNOCHA chief, Andrea De Domenico, how things have changed since that extreme amount of pressure was put on Prime Minister Benjamin

Netanyahu by President Biden after the killing of those seven World Central Kitchen aid workers. He told me that he is seeing a little bit of a change.


ANDREA DE DOMENICO, HEAD, OCHA'S OFFICE IN THE OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN TERRITORY: The real success will be when we will be able to deliver

assistance to people where they are. The first one.

ROBERTSON: And is that happening now?

DE DOMENICO: And there is aid. We're moving the dial. We are not where we should be. There is a commitment to get there. And so, I hold -- I will

hold accountable the Israeli for this commitment. We need to expand humanitarian assistance. It's not just about flour. And that is something

that we have to push on and consistently discussed with Israel.


ROBERTSON: And the other thing we talked about is what happens to the two principal border crossings in the South, Rafah and Kerem Shalom, if there

is a massive IDF operation in Rafah, which is still appears to be very much on the cards at the moment, because Rafah would implicitly impact the Rafah

Border Crossing and it's not far away from Kerem Shalom.


And he said, look, this would have a very significant impact. He said, we would do our best. We would hope that Israel would open up other border

crossings. But the reality is if it were to happen within the next few weeks, the system in the north, to get aid to the north, which is already

the most cut off and desperate would be -- would not be in place. And it would just be an aspiration that you'd be able to get some aid into the


So, this is -- it is a very complex situation and it is -- and at the moment it is barely improving. He described it as one step forward and two

steps back. And what the White House said that they were looking for was not just to see more trucks going in, which there are, but to see it

consistently and regularly delivered to the population, and we are clearly not at that point a long way from it yet.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and that Rafah operation would further fracture something that's clearly still deeply broken. Nic Robertson, thank you for that


Now, U.S. House Speaker Mike Johnson pushing for a weekend vote on key aid packages to Israel, but also Ukraine and Taiwan. One additional hurdle,

he's also fighting to keep his job as a result. House Republicans are currently split over a recent rule change making it easier to call for the

leader's ouster. Hours ago, Johnson said he wouldn't reverse the election. That earlier change, even if he criticized it.

Melanie Zanona joins us now from Capitol Hill. It feels pretty knife edge, clearly because he's going to have to rely on Democratic votes to get these

packages through, but also rely on the Democrats to keep him in his job, Melanie. Does he have the votes?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes, and that is exactly why Speaker Mike Johnson is walking such a tightrope right now when it comes to

these foreign aid bills. After months of inaction, he finally decided to hold a vote, four individual votes, I should say, on these aid bills that

will provide aid to Israel, Taiwan, Ukraine, and some other national security priorities, including a ban on TikTok.

So, the House is planning to vote on those bills on Saturday, and then they will package them all together and send them over to the Senate in one

piece. But they have to get through some procedural hoops. And because some of his hardline members are opposed to additional Ukraine funding and are

also mad that there's no border security in this package of bills, that means Johnson is going to have to rely on Democrats to get these bills over

the finish line.

Now, so far, Democrats have not made any commitments, but they have sounded somewhat open to the idea. They like this package of bills. They want to

see them passed. Even President Biden has said he would sign them if they were to get to his desk. So, we'll have to wait and see how that plays out.

But hanging over it all, as you mentioned, is this potential vote to oust Johnson from the speakership. That is something that some Republicans like

Marjorie Taylor Green have threatened to do. She hasn't forced a floor vote just yet.

And earlier today, we did hear some talk among Republicans about changing that rule so that any single member can't force a vote on removing the

sitting speaker. Ultimately, though Johnson decided not to change those rules. He said they just don't have the votes to do it. So, he is pressing

ahead with these foreign aid plans and knowing that his speakership could be on the line here.

And once again, it may come down to Democrats to not only get those bills over the finish line, but also to save Mike Johnson's speakership. So, that

is the question right now, is whether he can pass these foreign aid bills and also keep his speaker's gavel.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, complicated as always. Melanie Zanona, we'll see what takes place this weekend. Thank you for now from Capitol Hill.

All right. Straight ahead, the U.S. House, as we mentioned there, gearing up for historic foreign aid votes as Israel debates its next move against


Eurasia Group and GZERO Media President Ian Bremmer will be here with his expert foreign policy insight.

Plus --




CHATTERLEY: Yes, a little alarming. I apologize for that. That's Mona Lisa's A.I. makeover. The iconic painting like you've really never heard

nor seen her before, courtesy of a new Microsoft artificial intelligence tool. Will it raise new deepfake concerns? Wow. It's a bit obvious this

one, but we'll discuss.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." And a potential collision course, as we've already discussed, U.S. House Speaker Mike Johnson faces a revolt

from members of his own party over aid packages for allies, including $61 billion for Ukraine. A vote is expected to take place on Saturday.


REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): So, I think that Vladimir Putin would continue to march through Europe if he were allowed. I think he might go to the Balkans

next. I think he might have a showdown with Poland or one of our NATO allies. To put it bluntly, I would rather send bullets to Ukraine than

American boys.


CHATTERLEY: The package also includes aid for Israel, where Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says his country will make its own decisions on how to

respond to Iran's attack this past weekend.

At a U.N. Security Council meeting a short while ago, Iran's foreign minister warned of a "decisive response" to any Israeli action against


Ian Bremmer is president and founder of Eurasia Group and GZERO Media, and he joins us now. Ian, great to have you on the show. Let's get start with

Israel, your expectations are that they "let things lie and not respond in a manner that could be perceived as escalatory."

IAN BREMMER, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, EURASIA GROUP AND GZERO MEDIA: That's right. I think they will respond and they will respond against Iran broadly

speaking in some manner that could be cyber-attacks, it could be some espionage. It could be hits on proxies. It could even maybe be hit on some

marginal military sites, but it will be seen as a significant climb down compared to the Israeli strikes in Damascus on the Iranian government

building and the senior assassination of this Iranian military leader that precipitated all of this. So, in that regard, I think we're towards the end

of this part of the cycle.

CHATTERLEY: I mean, some might argue that there's been a pattern of, in some people's view, overreaction since October the 7th. What's the

probability? What probability do you give that you're wrong, actually, and that we do see something that directly pits Israel against Iran? It would

certainly keep Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in place perhaps for longer than he might be.

BREMMER: I think Netanyahu is already going to be in place for longer than he might be. The fact is, until this past weekend, the legacy for the

Israeli prime minister was a historic failure to protect his people in the worst terrorist attack against Jews since the Holocaust.

His legacy now includes historic ability to defend Israel in the context of an unprecedented Iranian strike against the Israeli homeland with support

from the United States, the United Kingdom, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, that that absolutely gives Netanyahu a longer lease on life, and people aren't

focused as much either on the domestic tension or on the Gaza war. Those things will come back, of course.

But for now, the timing does not make a lot of sense to maximally antagonize all of these allies that just did everything they could to help

you keep your country's chestnuts out of the fire.


CHATTERLEY: Yes, and this was a crucial thing. There was fair warning from the Iranians in all sorts of avenues. We saw 99 percent interception rate

from what they sent, but, Ian, there was still the risk that actually all of those weren't intercepted. And perhaps an element of luck that we didn't

see injuries, perhaps deaths and something more serious here. And arguably this was a risk that Iran was ultimately willing to take, including seeing

some kind of U.S. response as a result of this.

What does that tell you about the mindset for the regime in Iran that at least they were willing to risk that even if it was highly calculated?

BREMMER: It was highly calculated. And an add to the things you say, the fact that, you know, the slow-moving drones were sent hours before the

fast-moving ballistic missiles, and it was all military targeted. And that also meant that the Israelis had the opportunity to sound off their missile

warnings, their air raid alerts, and get their citizens to safety in their bomb shelters.

So, I do believe there was a lot of effort by the Israelis not to roll the dice here. This was well calculated. But you're absolutely right. You know,

when you're throwing hundreds of missiles at Israel, at a country that is armed to the teeth and views you as an implacable enemy, there is a decent

chance that you're going to end up in war.

And so, the stakes are very high and the Iranian leadership, both the IRGC, the Revolutionary Guard Corps, and an 84-year-old supreme leader whose

health is not great, they feel like they're under a lot of pressure and they had to respond to the unprecedented attack by Israel against sovereign

government building of Iran in in Damascus, in Syria.

So, yes, they were actually taking a real risk. And when we're talking about this war going forward, a war that is no longer contained to Israel

and Hamas in Gaza, but is actually expanding well beyond to the Red Sea, to the Straits of Hormuz, to Jordan, to Syria, to Iraq and now, to Israel and

Iran, every time we talk about these escalations, we could be talking about direct war.

And direct war between Israel and Iran would probably bring in the Americans, would probably shut down the Straits of Hormuz for a period of

time, would probably lead to $150 oil for a period of time. And by the way, would probably lead to a Trump election come November. So, we are talking

about an awful lot at stake here well beyond just these two countries.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, you've answered my next two questions. So, I'll move on. Another calculated risk perhaps that's being taken is with the House

Speaker Mike Johnson and his decision to push forward with votes in the House on aid to Ukraine, to Israel, and Taiwan as well.

The CIA director also pointed out that without this support, U.S. support for Ukraine specifically, he believes the war will be won by Russia by the

end of the year. Ian, on both of these things, how do you see it playing out?

BREMMER: Well, Julia, you may remember after the Munich Security Conference back in February, and I was there, and I met with a lot of the Republicans

and Democrats in the congressional delegation. They were watching live when the newly widowed Navalnaya after seeing Putin's regime execute her

husband, they were there watching her speak. And they were there watching the president of Ukraine saying that he had lost the town of Avdiivka

because they didn't have the military capability to defend themselves against the advancing Russian soldiers.

And what I saw from across the political divide is that American legislators did not want to see Putin win on their watch. And I thought it

was very likely on the back of that, that the United States would provide additional aid going forward to Ukraine.

I also haven't seen Trump try to really prevent this aid from going through in a way that he did. He put his thumb on the scale pretty hard in terms of

not having a border deal that would make Biden look like he'd handled the deal and been successful in the run up to the election. This was not a top

priority for Trump.

So, for all of those reasons, I felt quite confident that the Americans are going to get this money and these weapons packaged through, but it's taken

a few months. And in that period of time, a lot of Ukrainians have died. Some land has been lost. And definitely, it's getting a lot more urgent.

CHATTERLEY: Something that both sides can agree on, you know, I recognize these moments are rare, is China. And we always knew it was going to be a

sort of political hotspot and a focus in this election.

President Biden's chosen to focus on the steel industry, the manufacturing industry in the United States and flirting with tariffs. What's the

prospect of perhaps using this broader package to sneak in language that could possibly take a swipe at China in the process, and as a sweetener,

perhaps, for some of the Republicans? I guess I'm thinking TikTok.


BREMMER: Yes, I think that is happening. We've already seen Biden talking about opening up a new investigation into Chinese shipbuilding as well as

tripling steel tariffs from Chinese exports. Both of these talking about overcapacity.

The Europeans have been making very similar noises that's been coordinated across the Transatlantic relationship. And now, you have an effort to sneak

in TikTok and force them to sell or shut down, ByteDance, the Chinese ownership of TikTok.

I think it's pretty likely that happens. Now, of course, there'll be a lot of time before it occurs. They're talking, I think, 180 days now, which

means it's, you know, going to be kicked into the next administration into after the election. And, you know, Trump has had some different noises on

TikTok in part because of some of his funders of late than he did a year ago, two years ago.

But there's no question that the pressure on using American economic force as a weapon, particularly against China, has become bipartisan sport.

You're not going to lose votes. You're not going to lose political support if you take that on. And that does put pressure against the U.S.-China

relationship that for the past six months now, both countries have tried for different reasons to stabilize, getting a little harder to maintain

that status quo ante at this point.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, particularly when you're threatening 60 percent tariffs on Chinese goods like China.

BREMMER: As Trump is. Absolutely.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. Biden's look puny in comparison. Ian, great to chat to you, as always.

BREMMER: Thanks, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Ian Bremmer, president and founder of Eurasia Group and GZERO Media.

All right. Still ahead, a dangerous situation unfolding on a remote Indonesian island. Hundreds of people evacuated and a tsunami alert issued

after a volcanic eruption. Some dramatic pictures, next.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move" with a look at more international headlines this hour. A full 12-member jury has now been selected in Donald

Trump's hush money trial. Earlier in the day, two jurors were excused with one saying she had concerns about her identity becoming public. Trump's

legal team used up all of its strikes during the vetting process. The selection for alternates is set to continue on Friday.

And the G7 foreign ministers are meeting in Italy with the Middle East a top priority on their agenda. The E.U.'s top diplomat warned them the

region is on the brink of war. British Foreign Secretary David Cameron urged coordinated sanctions against Iran following its attack on Israel.

Officials also discussed Ukraine's call for further military aid.

Last summer was the hottest ever recorded in the United States, and it saw a spike in heat related trips to the hospital. Parts of the south even

broke records. That's according to a new report from the CDC. Extreme heat is the deadliest type of weather event, with officials warning it will only

become more common with climate change.

A tsunami alert has been issued after a volcanic eruption in Indonesia. The volcano started to erupt on Tuesday on a remote island, triggering an

evacuation. And now, there are fears it could partially collapse into the water and cause a tsunami. All the island's residents, about 800 of them,

have been moved temporarily to a neighboring island. Michael Holmes has more.


MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Billowing plumes of smoke and ash darken the skies above an Indonesian island. Authorities ordered hundreds

of people to evacuate Wednesday after a series of volcanic eruptions. The alert level now at maximum as the volcano's possible collapse into the

water threatens to trigger a tsunami, like it did in 1871, which produced 25-meter waves, according to the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric


725-meter Mount Ruang sits on Ruang Island in North Sulawesi in Indonesia. Since Tuesday night, its multiple eruptions have sent hot clouds almost two

kilometers into the sky, according to the country's volcanology agency, while glowing lava flows.

TAKA, LOCAL FISHERMAN (through translator): Last night at 7:00, there was a mixture of fire and rocks erupting, causing the roofs of residents houses

to leap. Lava flowed down from various directions.

HOLMES (voice-over): Ruang Island's roughly 800 residents have evacuated to nearby Tagulandang Island. But officials warn that even there, villagers

face threats from falling red hot rocks, hot cloud surges, and possible tsunamis.

JANDRY PAENDONG, MANADA SEARCH AND RESCUE OFFICIAL (through translator): Last night, local people were evacuating themselves sporadically because of

small rocks coming down from the eruption. People were panicked and scrambled.

HOLMES (voice-over): Transport officials shut down Sam Ratulangi International Airport more than a hundred kilometers from the volcano. Some

airlines cancelled flights to nine airports in the region. The showers of ash threatening flight safety and stranding passengers.

ROBBY CHARLES, PASSENGER (through translator): We had already loaded our luggage and checked in our belongings, and we waited for about an hour,

only to be informed that our flight was cancelled due to the eruption of Mount Ruang, and Manado was affected.

HOLMES (voice-over): But as long as Mount Ruang continues to erupt, threats of hot smoke, lava, falling rocks, and tsunamis remain.

Michael Holmes, CNN.


CHATTERLEY: OK. Just ahead, the spring meetings have sprung. Finance ministers from around the globe are in Washington for the latest IMF/World

Bank get together. Richard Quest is there and will bring us all the action.



?CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." More April showers on Wall Street topping today's "Money Move." A mostly lower day for U.S. stocks

with the S&P 500 falling for a fifth straight session. That's actually its longest losing streak this year. Investors rattled, I think, by a strong

new read on U.S. manufacturing that will further add to concerns for an inflation sensitive Federal Reserve.

Tech earnings season also underway, with Netflix posting strong quarterly results after the closing bell. Netflix beating earnings and sales

expectations and adding almost 10 million new subscribers, thanks in part to its password sharing crackdown. Shares, however, are almost 5 percent

lower in afterhours trade due to guidance. That was weaker than expected.

The company also announcing that it will stop reporting key subscription data beginning next year. We call that smart. For context, Netflix shares

already up some 30 percent year-to-date.

Now, the IMF and World Bank swing meetings are underway in Washington, D.C. The IMF calling the global economy "remarkably resilient." It expects 3.2

percent annual growth both this year and next. Officials warning, however, that growth will be uneven and they say the U.S. and China must work

together do more to cut their debt.

At a news conference, the IMF managing director also urged Beijing to shift its economic priorities, saying the world's second largest economy has

reached a fork in the road.


KRISTALINA GEORGIEVA, MANAGING DIRECTOR, IMF: China has benefited of a particular set of policies over the last decades, an export-oriented

growth. But now, time has come to look at domestic sources for growth.


CHATTERLEY: Easier said than done. Richard Quest is at the IMF headquarters in Washington for us. Richard, they didn't manage to raise consumption as a

portion of GDP when times were good. Try doing it when things are challenged.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE AND CNN ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: The issue is really one of demand versus supply, isn't it? How do

you get demand? I mean, the IMF managing director talking to me afterwards, you know, it was clear, how do you get demand -- domestic demand, to

replace or at least substitute for overseas demand, which has been the bastion of growth of China? So, that's one of the big issues here.

The other one, which is sort of bubbling on the back burner, but clearly moving forward, Julia, is protectionism. Whether it's Biden talking for

higher tariffs on China, or we know what Trump would do, or even Bruno Le Maire of France saying to me, there needs to be a level playing field

between the E.U. and China. Well, one man's level playing field is another's protectionism.


JIM CHALMERS, AUSTRALIAN TREASURER: We have found the room to invest substantially in our national security, in our defense forces. We said that

we would, and our priority now, having announced all of these big commitments, is to make sure we get value for all of that money.

QUEST: You see, that's the real problem. The sheer amount of money being spent, not just on the submarines, but on the other defense commitments.

You know as well as I do. It doesn't get wasted. It just gets dissipated. It just gets spent. And suddenly, budgets go over and everybody works out,

oh, where did all that go? How are you going to prevent that?


CHALMERS: Well, we're putting a lot of effort into making sure that our costings are robust, but also that we sequence our investment, that we get

our investment right. It's considered and methodical because we want to get value for money. These are big investments, in our defense.

QUEST: Huge.

CHALMERS: Huge investments. But important investments, necessary investments, and we want to make sure that we get maximum value.

QUEST: China does prevent the biggest opportunity and the biggest challenge for Australia today, in many ways. Both on the trade front, on the defense

front, on the strategic front. If there is a change in government in the United States, are you worried that your calculus changes as well?

CHALMERS: Not substantially. I mean, we understand that the Americans will make their own decisions about their own domestic political arrangements.

And we play the cards that we're dealt.

We are confident that we will have a good relationship with the Americans regardless. And we know that everyone has an interest, everyone in

Australia and indeed in our region has an interest in making sure that our relationships in Asia are robust too, and China obviously is a huge part of

that for us.

QUEST: All right. And I'm just throwing a balloon at this one. Cuts in interest rates.


QUEST: It's the RBA. The RBA is independent. You're going to tell me that the RBA will make its data dependent decision. But when would you like to

see it? No, I'm just kidding. I've phrased it. I've got you. I've got it slightly different.

During the -- the market is suggesting now, until '25, would you still like to see a cut in rates this year?

CHALMERS: I'd like to see inflation moderate as quickly as it can. That's my job, is to focus on the inflation part of the story, as you rightly

anticipated in your excellent question. The Reserve Bank in Australia takes their decisions independently. But we are pleased that inflation has come

off quite substantially since its peaks in 2022.

We've got real wages growing in our economy again. We've got the budget in much better condition. So, we've got a lot going for us.

QUEST: But you do face arguably a U.S. situation where as the chair of the Fed said inflation is coming down, you know, slower than expected and he

doesn't have confidence that he can hit the target exactly when he needs it. That's exactly the same situation in Australia.

CHALMERS: Well, inflation is lingering here. I mean, inflation, as you know, in the U.S. just went up in the most recent data. We hope that in our

data next week we'll see it come down. And so, that's a key difference. But the primary determinant of Australian interest rates is not American

interest rates. The primary determinant is inflation and then taking into consideration the way that our economy is slowing, our labor market is

softening a little bit in the data we received yesterday.

And so, the Reserve Bank will weigh up all of those things and take this decision independently as you anticipated I would say.


QUEST: Now, that of course was Jim Chalmers, he's the Australian Shiite (ph) treasurer. The finance minister. The IMF likes the look of the

Australian economy, says it's doing much better. But as he was saying there, Julia, the question, of course, is one of China, protectionism. How

do you get a level playing field without shooting yourself in both feet?

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's balancing the economics and the politics as the Australians with the wine tariffs that were just removed by China knows

incredibly well. And it's interesting, isn't it? Oh, well, we're going to go there. I was going to take you somewhere else. Do you want to say

something about that? I think leveling the playing field --

QUEST: No, I think -- well, I was going to say, yes, you see, the thing about the wine, the wine was fascinating because the wine went to the heart

of, if you like, consumerism. You know, it's one thing to talk about oil, to talk about iron ore and copper and resources, but the moment you start

tinkering with wine, particularly in Australia, then you start to have a different issue.

I think they're going to have a real protect -- not just Australia or China, I think this place, I think as elections get nearer. And remember in

Australia, it's only a three-year term before you have an election again, I think for all the countries protectionism is going to become a really big

problem, especially if Donald Trump wins next year or later this year.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I couldn't agree more, Richard, and we're seeing it more and more. It swings politically in the United States, as we've seen with

President Biden talking about tariffs on steel. Wait until we start talking about electric vehicles, batteries. We know there's challenges over chips.


CHATTERLEY: Yes. Energy, green energy and sensitive technologies. The barriers are only going one way.

QUEST: Correct. Correct.

CHATTERLEY: We're not allowed to agree, Richard. We have to argue. Well, clearly, both talking too much sense.

QUEST: Oh, that will be some -- don't worry. Plenty of room for that in the days and weeks ahead as we look at this. At the moment, I have to say, it's

one of the quieter IMFs I've seen. People are here. They're watching what's happening with Trump up in New York. They're worried about debt. They're

worried about -- but, you know, a lot of the sting was taken out of it, both from the ECB and the and the Fed, where I saw J-PAL, I wish I could

say, I had a private chat with him, but I didn't.


I saw him earlier. They've taken all the heat out of this by saying, basically, rates are coming down, just not yet.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. Richard, great to have you there. And we'll reconvene tomorrow. Hopefully.

QUEST: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you, sir.

Now, Microsoft has unveiled a powerful new A.I. tool, VASA-1. It's capable of taking a single image and with the help of an audio clip, transforming

it into a lifelike video. Just take a listen to this example shared by Microsoft, mixing some rapping from the actress Anne Hathaway with the Mona

Lisa. Get ready.



CHATTERLEY: I just can't cope with it. No, that was the second time we watched it. As you may imagine, the powerful tool can be fun, but there's a

serious side too. Clare Duffy has more.

CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Julia, this is one of the wildest new A.I. tools that I've seen, and it feels like that's saying a lot,

considering all of the stunning A.I. creations we've seen over the past year. These Microsoft researchers have developed a new A.I. model called

VASA-1 that needs only a still portrait of a face and a clip of someone speaking, and it can automatically generate a realistic looking video of

that face speaking, complete with convincing lip syncing and natural face and head movements.

I want to play for you an example of this, but first a disclaimer, Microsoft says it used A.I. generated faces, not real people to create

these videos. But if you weren't looking closely, it all looks pretty real. Let's watch.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These principles will not only make your users journey more pleasant, they'll contribute to better business metrics as well.


DUFFY: Now, the tool also works on images of faces that aren't photos. I want to show you another example of this, where VASA animated a cartoon


Watching these, it's easy to see how this could go badly, and potentially contribute to misinformation and confusion online. And for that reason,

Microsoft says it doesn't yet plan to release this model publicly, because of the risk of impersonating real humans. But the company said this

technology could ultimately be useful in areas such as education or offering people a virtual companion, which sounds fascinating.

And I think this research could also act as a signal that Microsoft has not fallen behind in the A.I. arms race, as many of its competitors have also

teased compelling A.I. video offerings. Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Clare Duffy there. Now, turning to the weather, it's a wet Friday for parts of China. Heavy rain and stormy winds for people in

southern parts of the nation. Chad Myers has more.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Julia, a couple of big stories really today. Yes, for Japan and also for China, the storm moving away from Tokyo at this

hour, but another storm is developing for parts of Southwestern China.

Here's lightning streaking across the sky here as the storm is beginning to develop, and there will be very heavy rainfall, mainly north of Hong Kong,

but that's what the model said yesterday as well. And now, the models are pushing that rain a little bit farther to the south and a little bit

closer, and those purple areas are 250 millimeters of rain in the next three days. So, that could certainly cause some flooding.

Temperatures are warm. Seoul 22. There's a sunshine there. And it will stay fairly warm here for the next couple of days. The opposite of what's

happening in Europe, and we'll get to that in just a second. There's your warm weather all the way through parts of Shanghai and Beijing all the way

to 30. 30 degrees on Thursday. So, that's going to be very, very warm.

There's your cold air coming in across parts of Northwestern Europe. Going to push temperatures down in Paris, also down toward Berlin, even toward

Zurich. Will certainly make some snow back into the Alps, and they'll use that later on as drinking water and melting snow. That's some good news.

And a few showers here, too, around parts of Athens, and then rolling all the way up toward Kyiv.

Some of this could be heavy at times, it could be 50 to 100 millimeters with that secondary low that actually rolls across Italy and then on up

through Athens and toward the north. But a high of only 94 Kyiv for today.

Here comes the cold air coming down from the north and it stays for the next few days as well across all of Northern Europe. Look at these

temperatures here for Paris, still only in the lower teens. You should be 17 for a high, and not even getting to 10 in Berlin over the next four

days. Not even back up to your normal of 15 this week at all. Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Thank you to Chad Myers there.

All right. Coming up here on "First Move" for Us, a story Taylor made for controversy. Taylor Swift's new album, "The Tortured Poets Department," is

released in a few hours' time. But it may already have been leaked online. The torturous details, just ahead.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." And as a wise woman once said, the player's going to play, play, play, play, play. And when it comes to

Taylor Swift's new album, that's what some people have allegedly been doing, albeit prematurely.

"The Tortured Poets Department" officially drops at midnight Eastern time here in the United States. But a link to what claims at least to be new

songs is allegedly circulating online. Elizabeth Wagmeister is at the Grove with Taylor Swift. Fans over there in L.A. Elizabeth, great to have you

with us.

The ultimate question is, have you listened to the leaks or are you a true Swiftie who clearly I'm not deigning to do so?

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: You know, I am a true Swiftie. Of course, I have not listened to the leaks, Julia, because I

don't think the fans here would talk to me if I had.

Now, what I'm talking about is when this started trending today, then the fans started trending saying that Taylor would be against this. We are not

going to listen. We are going to wait for midnight on the East Coast.

In fact, the term Taylor Swift leaks was actually banned earlier today on X, formerly known as Twitter. Now, we have reached out to Taylor's camp, we

didn't hear back. But since that search term was banned, it leads us to believe that perhaps her legal did get involved with these leaks.

But, Julia, as you said, I am here at a pop up at the Grove in Los Angeles, and there are a ton of Taylor Swift fans who behind me are getting a

glimpse of this installation. But we want to show you the line. People have been waiting here for hours. So, we're going to walk and talk to some fans

and show you just what we are talking about here.

There are fans that are trading friendship bracelets, of course, which is the ultimate Swiftie move and dressed up like Taylor Swift. I am here with

Brooke and some of her friends.

Now, you told me you've only been waiting in line for 15 minutes. You are the lucky ones.

BROOKE MUSCHOTT, TAYLOR SWIFT FAN: We are the lucky ones. We were prepared to wait for like four hours.

WAGMEISTER: Yesterday, when we were here, fans had waited for four hours. Now, I have noticed that you have some Taylor inspired outfits. Tell me

about your inspiration here.

MUSCHOTT: So, I, of course, have to have the Eras Tour shirt and the cardigan, but then wanted to go for more of "The Tortured Poets Department"

academia look. I'm a writer, so this album's about to be my entire personality.

WAGMEISTER: And you have the red lip. Now, I see you are in Taylor Super Bowl outfit. I know these pants we're sold out right after she wore them.

So, I'm impressed that you have these on and you have your Chiefs champions hat as well.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. I'm impressed that you think these are the original ones because I actually made them. So -- because they were sold

out and still are.

WAGMEISTER: They were sold out and they were very, very expensive. Now, tell me what are you most excited for with the new album drop tonight?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, I'm, tears. I know that sounds ridiculous, but she hasn't had like a really sad album in a while, and I'm just ready, you

know, emotions, let it all go, let it all flow. So, I'm excited.

WAGMEISTER: Now, this morning, the album leaked. Did any of you listen to it?



WAGMEISTER: You wouldn't do that, because a true Swiftie would never, right?


WAGMEISTER: All right. Well, thank you so much and have so much fun in there and with your listening party tonight, which I'm sure you have big


All right. Julia. So, as you see there are hundreds of fans here. Again, these are the lucky ones. But people really have been waiting here for

hours on end and this installation wraps at 9:00 p.m. Pacific, which is right, of course, when the album drops.

CHATTERLEY: Those were very swift responses. No, no, no. I think I would have been tempted to ask what their message is to those that did listen to

those leaked tapes, but it probably would have to be deleted or beat out for safety purposes for TV.

WAGMEISTER: Right. That wouldn't be fit for TV.

CHATTERLEY: Exactly. Any time of day. Elizabeth Wagmeister, great to have you with us. Have fun there. And clearly, some very dedicated Swifties

along with you. Of course, you need some bracelets, by the way, you're lacking bracelets. Yes.

That just about wraps up the show. Thank you for joining us. We'll see you tomorrow.