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First Move with Julia Chatterley

Trump On Trial; Trump's Absolute Immunity Claims Considered; Trump's Absolute Immunity Claims Tested; U.S. Secretary Of State Blinken In China; U.S.-China Relations; Disappointment Read On U.S. Growth; Big Tech, Big Earnings; Protesters Arrested At U.S. College Campuses; Pro-Palestinian Protesters; Dramatic Whale Rescue In Australia; Premier League Title Race. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired April 25, 2024 - 18:00   ET



JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Until tomorrow. You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, X, formerly known as Twitter, on the TikTok

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Our coverage continues now with one, Mr. Wolf Blitzer, right next door in a place I like to call "THE SITUATION ROOM." See you tomorrow.

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: It's 6:00 a.m. in Shanghai, 8:00 a.m. in Sydney, and 6:00 p.m. here in New York. I'm Julia Chatterley. And

wherever you are in the world, this is your FIRST MOVE.

And a warm welcome once again to FIRST MOVE. And here's today's need to know. Presidential power limits. The Supreme Court debating Donald Trump's

immunity claims for actions while in office. Well, he appears in court at the criminal hush money trial in New York.


DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you don't have immunity, you're not going to do anything. You're going

to become a ceremonial president. Because otherwise, you're going to be prosecuted after you leave office.


CHATTERLEY: Police versus protesters. Arrests and recriminations at Emory University in Atlanta as activists reportedly trespass on campus.

And West meets East. U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken gets China's view, while balancing tough talks on Russia with efforts to strengthen

ties. All that and more coming up.

But first, a question of presidential immunity. The U.S. Supreme Court heard oral arguments in the historic case over whether Former President

Donald Trump can claim immunity from his federal election interference charges. Conservative justices, including Justice Samuel Alito,

aggressively questioned the attorney representing Special Counsel Jack Smith.


SAMUEL ALITO, U.S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: If an incumbent who loses a very close, hotly contested election, knows that a real possibility after

leaving office is not that the president is going to be able to go off into a peaceful retirement, but that the president may be criminally prosecuted

by a bitter political opponent, will that not lead us into a cycle that destabilizes the functioning of our country as a democracy?

And we can look around the world and find countries where we have seen this process, where the loser gets thrown in jail.


CHATTERLEY: It's not clear how much time the Supreme Court will take to hand down its opinion, but just listen to what the former president had to

say on the matter.


DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So, I heard the meeting was quite amazing. Quite amazing. And the justices

were on their game. So, let's see how that all turns out. But again, I say presidential immunity, very powerful presidential immunity is imperative or

you practically won't have a country anymore.


CHATTERLEY: And our resident Supreme Court expert, Joan Biskupic, joins us now to make sense of all of this. Joan, we heard one side there, which was

Justice Alito. The opposite, of course, is that rather than a president perhaps not wanting to be president because they're afraid of what comes

afterwards and the decisions that they've had to make, a blanket immunity, perhaps in the other extreme, creates a whole host of other problems.

But the general consensus, I think, today perhaps, was that the justices were more willing to hear Donald Trump's lawyers' arguments, perhaps, than

people may have originally assumed.

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SENIOR SUPREME COURT ANALYST: You know, Julia, that's a perfect way to say it, because we all went in there knowing that John

Sauer, representing the former president, had a tough hill to climb to say that there's absolute immunity.

But he -- they might not agree with him exactly on that kind of outsized view of how a president could be shielded, but they were with him in so

many different ways, Julia It was really riveting, nearly three hours, that when it comes right down to it, there are two things that are important


First, what everyone cares about is what's going to happen to Donald Trump? Will he necessarily have a jury trial before the November 2024 election?

And I think all the signals from this court are that, no, this is not going to be an affirmation of the lower court ruling that said that Donald Trump

lacked absolute immunity and that he should go to trial. I think what we're headed for here is definitely a reversal and sending it back to lower



But there was enough back and forth about various issues that would apply to presidents more broadly, that I think this is going to be a very hard

decision to write for future presidents. But the bottom line for this president is I just do not foresee a jury trial anytime soon.

But on the larger question of whether presidents can be shielded from criminal liability, that's going to be worked out in the justices' private

conference, and I think they're going to be narrowly divided on that.

Chief Justice John Roberts, for example, was very skeptical of what the lower court did here. But I think it had to do with how the lower court did

not, frankly, really delineate a lot of rationale to separate out official acts from private acts, didn't give the high court, in his mind at least,

enough to work with. So, that's why it would have to go back.

So, it's not that they were outright ready to say, you know, we believe in Donald Trump. It was more, we don't think the Justice Department has the

best argument here, and we definitely don't think the D.C. Circuit, the lower court that considered this, has an argument that we can uphold.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. I mean, this is the highest court in the land. For people that don't live in the United States, they have to understand that every

decision and the split of the votes of any decision is also going to be read in one way or another by the people watching this decision. What's to

stop them saying, to your point, presidential immunity does apply in X, Y, Z cases? And in A, B, C cases, we're going to push it back to the lower

court and you have to fight amongst yourselves there?

And your point about this all pushing everything back beyond the November 2024 election is important. But even just any signals before then, I think,

matter too.

BISKUPIC: You know, that's exactly right. And one thing I should say, again, just thinking about Donald Trump for a second. You know, the lawyer

representing Jack Smith, a man by the name of Michael Dreeben, kept trying to put before the justices, you know, so many of the fraud -- allegedly

fraudulent Obstructive acts that Former President Trump had engaged in, the denial of the vote, all the activities that led up to the January 6, 2021

attack on the Capitol, and these justices weren't having any of it. At least the majority was not having any of it.

So, you know, the kinds of things that I think a lot of our audience, you know, rightfully, you know, preoccupied by what the accusations against the

former president and the fact that he's running for re-election now, that was not foremost in the justices' mind, and they really did not -- as I

said, they brushed back those kinds of facts.

So, I think that, you know, looking for signals for what might happen this summer, I can tell you this, given the arguments that we heard today, I do

not anticipate any ruling by the Supreme Court before the end of June.

Best case scenario for the Department of Justice's case would have been a ruling that totally affirms the lower court or at least says a trial can go

forward. But every signal, Julia, was a trial cannot go forward. That there are issues to iron out, you know, as you said, private versus official

acts. Maybe another point that Justice Brett Kavanaugh brought up, and Justice Brett Kavanaugh tends to be a key justice at the center of this

bench, you know, are there -- would a criminal statute that the president is charged under have to explicitly say that the president can be charged

under this?

So, a lot of questions that, frankly, as I said, at least from the chief's point of view, should have been ironed out in the lower courts. The lower

court judges, though, were emphatic in sort of highlighting the accusations and the fact that Donald Trump's claim was just too broad for absolute

immunity, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. Required calibration.


CHATTERLEY: And just to tie about this, the key is that if he becomes president, the alleged federal crimes can go away. The state crimes,

however, are far more difficult. Joan, fantastic to have you with us. Thank you for making sense of what can be incredibly complicated, quite frankly.


CHATTERLEY: Now, speaking of state crimes, let's go to New York. Testimony has wrapped up in Donald Trump's other big legal challenge of the day. His

criminal hush money trial. David Pecker, the former publisher of tabloid, "The National Enquirer," once again was on the stand.

He talked about the deal he helped broker with adult film star Stormy Daniels as well as the "Enquirer" burying negative stories about the former

president. Trump spoke about his feelings on Pecker.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What have you thought of David Pecker's testimony so far? When was the last time you spoke to him?

TRUMP: No, he's been very nice. I mean, he's been -- David's been a very nice. He's nice guy.


CHATTERLEY: And Jessica Schneider has the reaction from Washington for us. Jessica, we appreciate that the prosecution is in its infancy at this

moment. What did they achieve with David Pecker that the defense now needs to counter? Because right from the get go and out of the gate they were

chipping away as best they can at his credibility.


JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Prosecutors had all of these days, three days of testimony, to lay out their case. And now,

Trump's defense team, they're finally getting their chance to begin that cross-examination phase of David Pecker.

He did go through that six hours or so questioning from prosecutors. But with the defense team and their one hour of cross-examination today, they

really did two things. It's a -- who knows how successful it was. But what they tried to do was poke holes in Pecker's credibility, first of all. They

mentioned one time where he didn't get the exact timing right, when he talked to prosecutors about a Trump Tower meeting in August 2015. Of

course, a very minor memory lapse, but it's still what the defense will try to do to raise question in the jury's minds about Pecker's testimony


And secondly, the defense team really tried to elicit from Pecker that his involvement was Trump -- with Trump was something that went back decades,

that he wasn't just doing this for the 2016 campaign. And again, that was trying to poke holes in the prosecution's case that this whole catch and

kill scheme and the payments were only for the benefit of Trump trying to win the election. That is a crucial part of this case.

So, by trying to say, look, he'd done this for Donald Trump for decades. The defense was saying, this actually wasn't for the benefit of the 2016

campaign. We'll see what sticks with the jury.

Julia, Pecker is going to be back on the stand for more cross-examination tomorrow morning. It could last several more hours because, of course, we

saw all of that questioning that lasted three days from the prosecutors. So, defense team will get their crack at it.

And then we're also still waiting for the judge's decision on the prosecutor's request that Trump be fined up to $10,000 plus for violating

that gag order. There are two different incidents here. Prosecutors in general, they've raised 14 different times. They say Trump violated the gag

order with his social media posts or on TV. The judge is now considering 10 of those times. And he's actually scheduled a hearing for next week,

Wednesday afternoon, to consider an additional four times that prosecutors brought up that they claim Trump violated the gag order this week.

So, we're dealing with a lot of claims from prosecutors. The judge is kind of considering them in parts as to when prosecutors say they happened and

when. So, there's still a lot out there. And of course, like you said, Julia, this trial only in its infancy. We're in just the first few days of

what could be a four-to-six-week trial.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, we have to keep reminding ourselves of that. And the sort of gag order situations, almost like a case running concurrently with the

case, quite frankly.


CHATTERLEY: So, I understand why we've not really heard anything yet. Jessica, great to have you with us. Jessica Schneider there. Thank you.

SCHNEIDER: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: All right. Now, standing by allies, standing up to adversaries and standing tall on the global stage. America's top diplomat, Antony

Blinken, is in Beijing for meetings with Chinese leaders. On the agenda for the trip is the crisis, of course, in the Middle East, Ukraine's war with

Beijing's ally, Russia, and tensions in the South China Sea.

On the first part of the visit in Shanghai, Blinken also raised concerns about China's trade policies and non-market economic practices, at least

according to the State Department. Marc Stewart is in Beijing for us with more on what we can expect this Friday.

MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Julia. As we look forward, Secretary of State Antony Blinken will spend Friday here in Beijing meeting

with Chinese government officials, and tough conversations are expected.

We are anticipating the Secretary will issue a strong warning to Chinese leaders concerning the country's support of the Russian war effort in

Ukraine. The big issue, support for weapons production. Blinken has expressed concern that China is sharing things like machine tools and

semiconductors to help Russian efforts. To be clear, China is not providing direct military support to Russia, but the U.S. claims this type of help is

having a significant impact. Other issues likely on the list, Taiwan and the fentanyl crisis.

On Thursday, the Secretary met with a government official in Shanghai to discuss the trade relationship between the two nations. He also focused on

people to people exchanges. He met with business leaders at the American Chamber of Commerce Shanghai and with students from NYU Shanghai campus

where he talked about the ties between the two nations.


ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Whether you're Chinese, whether you're American, I think you know that this relationship between China and

the United States is one of the most consequential, probably the most complicated in the world.

Especially with students, Americans studying in China, Chinese students studying in the United States. Getting to know each other's countries,

getting to know each other, this is really the best way to make sure that we start by hopefully understanding one another. And that's a really

important thing to make sure that we avoid miscommunications, misperceptions, and even where we have a foundation system to find ways to

work through them.



STEWART: And finally, since business and politics often collide, the secretary spent time meeting with representatives from several big-name

organizations in Shanghai, including Disney and Morgan Stanley. Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Thanks to Marc Stewart there. Now, coming up for us, you're up to the minute weather forecast.

Plus, from soft landing bets to bumpy reentry threats. A disappointing read on U.S. growth rattling Wall Street. But tech perhaps to the rescue. Strong

afterhours results from Microsoft and Google's parent company, Alphabet. A huge investor friendly announcement from Alphabet too. We've got the

latest. Stay with us.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. And TGIF if you're waking up with us across Asia. Meanwhile, here in the United States, no investor glee

after a disappointing read on GDP. That tops today's "Money Move."

The major averages dropping after first quarter U.S. economic growth disappointed, while a key inflation gauge rose. After a dramatic reaction,

stocks did close off the session lows, however, and Friday could see a session bounce thanks to strong earnings from the likes of Microsoft and

Alphabet after the closing bell. Look at that in afterhours trade. Both companies rallying. Alphabet up more than 11 percent at this stage. Much

more on the details of those reports in just a moment's time.

A mixed session, however, in Asia Thursday, Chinese stocks managing to push higher. Softness however, in Japan, the Nikkei falling 2 percent as

investors await the latest policy statement from the Bank of Japan, which will be out in just a few hours' time.

No change in interest rates expected, even if a further hike could lend support to the week. Yen now trading a 34-year low against the U.S. dollar.

So, we'll be watching for that in a couple of hours' time too.

Now, spare a thought for the tortured economists department. Forget Taylor Swift and her poets. After all the latest data, Anna Stewart joins me now.

Anna, I think investors were less worried about the weaker growth and the combination of the weaker growth, and the higher inflation readings within

this U.S. growth print.


I won't be hysterical and mention the S word, but you might.

ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I might, and we wouldn't be the only people at the stage to mention stagflation. Jamie Dimon, CFO of JPMorgan

Chase, may have warned earlier this week of the risks of stagflation. Frankly, job status looking pretty good. And I don't think we can compare

2024 to the 1970s at this stage.

But let's run you through the numbers because it was quite interesting. The U.S. economy growing at an annualized rate of 1.6 percent in the first

quarter. Coming from Europe, I feel like that's quite good. If we can show you where it was at in the fourth quarter, it's quite a significant fall.

And as you said, a key metric for underlying inflation really disappointed this morning coming in at 3.1 percent, which is actually a really big jump

if you compare it to recent months. And this is the one that strips out energy and housing. So, clearly, there are some concerns at this stage, but

whether or not this is a trend or a one off, I think that's what we have to wait and see really.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, watch this space. And Anna Stewart, eagle eyed viewers will notice that the little bug above you says New York. So, it's fantastic

to have you on the show and it's fantastic to have you in New York, albeit a very short trip.

A. STEWART: It's such a treat.


A. STEWART: Although, you're actually in the next-door studio. We're a wall apart.

CHATTERLEY: I know. No comment on that.

A. STEWART: So close.

CHATTERLEY: We had a hug earlier. Great to have you on the show. Thank you.

Now, tech earnings season in full swing with two of the so-called magnificent seven tech stocks, Microsoft and Alphabet, just out with

earnings. The results were, in fact, well, pretty magnificent. Both firms beating on both the top and bottom lines.

Microsoft results boosted by a phenomenal 31 percent rise in its Azure Cloud services revenue. A.I. services accounting for 7 percent of that

growth. Alphabet's Cloud, a big earnings driver to digital advertising, also looking strong, and that was the key for them.

But perhaps the biggest news for shareholders is the announcement of the firm's first ever quarterly dividend, as well as a significant $70 billion

share buyback. Dan Ives joins us now, managing director and senior equity research analyst at Wedbush Securities.

They've got so much money, they don't know what to do with it, Dan. And now, they're joining the big leagues. Let's start there and paying a


DAN IVES, SENIOR EQUITY RESEARCH ANALYST, WEDBUSH SECURITIES: Look, I mean, they're generating along with big tech more cash in some countries.


IVES: So, I think what you're seeing here, buyback, I think more and more acquisitions and now dividends. This is just going to broaden the install

base. Look, the strong get stronger. This A.I. revolution's here, and it's another drop to mic quarter for tech.

CHATTERLEY: Talk to me about Microsoft too, because I know throughout and heading into this quarter, you've been going out there talking to

customers, trying to get a sense of not only who's adopting some of the A.I. tools like Copilot, but to what extent that then plays into bigger

business deal making in their Cloud too. It's sort of an on-ramp from one to the other.

IVES: Yes, this is a flex the muscles quarter for Microsoft, and this is really about the A.I. revolution. And I think it's showing 1995 moment, not

1999 moment. Microsoft, we believe, it could be an incremental 25 billion per year in terms of A.I. driven revenue that they're going to be getting.

And you come out of this quarter feeling more and more emboldened that the A.I. revolution monetization is here, of course, being led by the godfather

of A.I., Jensen, NVIDIA, along with Microsoft.

CHATTERLEY: Can we weave in Meta? Because they've -- and they announced, yes, there was a little bit of disappointment, I think, on their forecast

for revenues. But a lot of people pointing to the sheer scale of the billions of dollars that they're saying, look, we're going to throw into

A.I. investment. And I think a lot of people asking exactly what you asked about, where's the path to monetization for all the capital expending that

they're doing?

Can you do a compare and contrast to me? Are you, sort of, nervous, perhaps, about Meta's ambitions in A.I. as you are positive about where

Microsoft and like are headed?

IVES: Oh, I'm not nervous at all. I mean, to some extent -- I think, right now, Zuckerberg's shrinking to Mimosa. Because if you look at this, they're

in a position of strength. They're spending good money after good, not Metaverse.

And the A.I. revolution, this is all now just playing out. And guess where they're spending it? Microsoft, Amazon, Google, names like Palantir and

others. I think this is just the start of a ripple effect that we're going to see as this fourth industrial revolution plays out. I think that Meta

sell-off is going to be bought. I think, 24 hours from now, that stock could be even where it was before they were reported, you know, if you look

at the sell-off.

CHATTERLEY: I know. I sort of wonder if anything actually, whether it's tech or beyond, Dan, actually makes you nervous because you are a bit of a

cool customer.

What about Tesla? Because that has created, I think, some nerves. You were very focused this week, not only on the numbers, which I think a lot of

people expected to be pretty bad, quite frankly. But also, on what we heard on the earnings call and how Elon Musk behaved, first and foremost.


IVES: Yes. Look, Julia, right now, I think it's a tale of two cities, because you have tech strong and stronger A.I. revolution. Everything you

see, Microsoft Alphabet. And when you look at Tesla, they're going through a category five storm because of the demand issues in China price war.

They need an adult in the room. Finally, Musk was that adult in the room. I think you saw it in the quarter that sub $30,000 vehicle will come next

year to the rescue. It's a white-knuckle period. But I think Tesla now has the blueprint to get (INAUDIBLE).

CHATTERLEY: OK. I'm going to ask you very, very quickly at the end, like, which of all of this sort of big tech with reference to Tesla included you

like at these levels. But very quickly, TikTok, Dan, you've been adamant China will not sell TikTok to the United States or someone in the United

States without the algorithm.

I wanted to ask you, just based on your sort of inside knowledge and what you're hearing, whether there are tech giants, be it a Google perhaps, or

an Alphabet -- not Alphabet, and Google's the same thing, or Microsoft, my apologies, that could recreate that algorithm.

IVES: Oh, there -- I mean, there's going to be a line of potential buyers here. I think strategically, Oracle and Microsoft are the ones that

ultimately get this. They'll fight it in court. It will be sold without the algorithm. And that could be $30 to $40 billion. They will never sell with

the algorithm.

But again, they'll say that they're not going to sell it. I mean, there's a better chance of me playing for the Knicks tonight than them not selling

this if they have to.

MONTGOMERY (on camera): Very quickly, Dan, because I'm going to get yelled at. Top pick at this moment of all the stocks we've discussed?

IVES: Oh, it's Nadella and Microsoft. That's the one that you continue on, A.I. revolution.

CHATTERLEY: Dan, fantastic chat.

IVES: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: As always, Dan Ives, managing director of Wedbush Securities there.

Now, about a week ago, Dubai suffered record setting rain. Well, now, we're learning more about what caused it. New analysis pointing to one big

culprit, the climate crisis.

Chad Myers joins us now. Chad, I think we perhaps could have predicted that. In fact, I think we did at the time. Tell us more.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, the science is clear. Warmer air holds more humidity. More humidity bodes for heavier rainfall events.

That's just the way it is. That's the science that's determined. We're not going to go over, but that's -- is as strong as gravity. There you go.

Heavy rains, though, came down in Dubai. But what the people said, 21 scientists came together and

said, this was 10 to almost 40 percent more likely with the addition of that warmer air. So, there you go.

1.2 degrees C above pre-industrial levels. But we know, Julia, that there's been some months, just recently, that were 1.5, 1.6, and 1.7. So, that 1.2

is an average. We'll see what happens after El Nino goes away. But we also know that heavy rain, drought and also heat waves and coastal flooding are

very likely when we talk about climate change.

Now, the UAE, Dubai picked up almost 200 millimeters of rainfall. For a normal April, you're talking about nine millimeters of rainfall. So, just

put it in perspective. 200 millimeters is about eight inches of rain and they saw that in about 72 hours.

Down here in China, it's still raining and it's still flooding. We talked about eight to 10 inches of rain that already fell. Another four to six

could still fall. So, you're still looking at another 150 to 200 millimeters in places that already have water in the streets. There you go.

This is the map. Everywhere you see purple, that's 250. That's 10 inches of rainfall still to come.

And there are some heavy rainfalls still likely in Taiwan, in a very mountainous area. So, we'll have to keep an eye on that. Where does that

water flow?

24 in Seoul today with sunny skies. Nice there. They would wish the sun would go away here in Southeast Asia. Look at Bangkok, all the way to 37

later on today, and by the next week 39. That's many, many degrees above normal.

Also, in the U.S., just for a quick glance here. Severe weather likely tonight, tomorrow, and into Saturday. I've already seen some pictures of

some very small tornadoes today, but I expect some much bigger ones tonight, tomorrow, and also on Saturday, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, we can exclude the word normal, I think, from the weather dictionary because none of this is normal.

MYERS: Exactly.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. Chad, thank you.

MYERS: You're welcome.

CHATTERLEY: Chad Myers there. All right. Coming up here on FIRST MOVE, more protests, more arrests. The latest on the pro-Palestinian protests on

college campuses in the United States. Stay with us.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE with a look at more of the international headlines this hour. The U.S. has started building a

temporary pier in Gaza aimed at bringing food to the enclave. The Pentagon said the goal is to deliver the equivalent of 150 trucks of aid per day.

The pier is on track to start handling traffic in early May. It will bring desperately needed help for Gaza's residents who are on the brink of


U.S. President Joe Biden told reporters he hasn't seen a recent video from Hamas, which appears to show an Israeli-American hostage. He spent some

time Wednesday with Abigail Edan, a four-year-old hostage, released as part of a deal late last year. Biden said she seemed to enjoy her trip to the

White House.


JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: We had her on the swing. She's playing around in the Oval Office. She was really good.


CHATTERLEY: The United States and 17 other nations made an unprecedented humanitarian appeal to Hamas on Thursday. They're calling on Hamas to

release the sick, elderly, and wounded hostages they've been holding in hopes that it could ease the crisis in Gaza.

And a New York appeals court has overturned Harvey Weinstein's conviction on sex crimes and ordered a new trial. It said the case against Weinstein

shouldn't have included testimony about other alleged crimes. Weinstein's rape conviction in California, however, still stands. The former Hollywood

producer has maintained his innocence.

And a federal judge in New York has upheld the verdict in Donald Trump's civil defamation trial, that's while Trump sat nearby, of course, in

another Manhattan courtroom. Wednesday's ruling means Trump still owes $83 million to former columnist E. Jean Carroll. He was found liable in a

separate case of sexually assaulting her.

And from civil cases to criminal in New York, the former president's hush money trial continued with more testimony from a former tabloid executive.

David Pecker said "The National Enquirer" would catch and kill negative stories on Trump, including about his alleged affairs.


And in Washington, as we've discussed already, the Supreme Court heard arguments on presidential immunity in a separate case. This one deals with

Trump's efforts to allegedly try to overturn the 2020 election. Trump argued his own defense as he left the courtroom in Manhattan.


TRUMP: And I think it was made clear, I hope it was made clear that the president has to have immunity. You don't have a president or at most, you

can say, it would be a ceremonial president. That's not what the founders had in mind. I'm not talking about ceremonial. We want presidents that can

get things done and bring people together.


CHATTERLEY: And Stephen Collinson joins us now, Stephen. And I know you have some exclusive reporting on a new survey done. One of the top lines

that caught me, 13 percent of people nationwide think that he's being treated like any normal defendant. So, just 13 percent. However, they're

dead split on whether that's helping him or hindering him.

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: That's right. That number doesn't suggest a great deal of public approval of this first

criminal trial that's taking place. 13 percent really isn't very much.

As you say, though, 34 percent believe that Trump is being treated just like anybody else. And 34 percent think he's being treated more harshly

than anybody else. So, I think you can see that that basically breaks down on partisan lines, and it tells us what we really know already, going into

these trials, that America is so polarized. Trump has been so successful in billing the narrative that he's a victim of persecution that the political

impact, at least of this first criminal trial that's taking place in New York, may not be that great as we head into November's election.

A lot will depend, however, on what the verdict is. We have no idea really. This poll is a snapshot in time how things would change, for example, if

Trump was acquitted or if he was convicted.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and what we're showing actually now is that just 44 percent of people that were surveyed think that actually this jury can

reach a fair verdict, whatever the outcome.

COLLINSON: That's right. And you know, 44 percent, that's not that much different than the people -- the percentages that President Joe Biden is

polling at. I think most of that 56 percent is probably made up of Republicans who are jaundiced against this trial from the start.

There was one other interesting finding that about 24 most Republicans said that whatever the outcome of Trump's trials, they wouldn't change their

support for the former president in November. But about 24 percent said they might think about it if he was convicted.

Now, that's a potential warning sign for Trump, and I think it helps explain why he's taken such pains to try and delay these trials, to stop

them coming to a head before the November election. And that's what this appeal in the Supreme Court is partly about. Trump is claiming massive and

total immunity for presidential acts. That is a constitutional question, but the strategy is to get this so gummed up in the courts that the Supreme

Court sends it back to a lower court for more litigation, and there's no chance that the trial about his interference in the 2020 election can come

to fruition before the 2024 election.

CHATTERLEY: But it's interesting, isn't it? Because it does seem like the charges and the case matters. Because if I look again at this polling, what

jumped out to me again was a rising share of those polls saying the contents, at least, of this current trial. So, we're talking the criminal

hush money payment trial are irrelevant to his fitness as a president. That's now at 45 percent of those polled.

And if you go back to last summer, 39 percent. And it is sort of inching higher too if you extend it to some of the other charges against him too.

COLLINSON: I think part of that is the passage of time. I think there are real questions about whether the current case should have been brought to

court. There are many legal analysts who believe it's the weakest of the cases against Donald Trump. It basically boils down to an accusation that

he fabricated business records to cover up a hush money payment. And this is in the 2016 election, which was -- you know, which is now eight years


The question of whether, Donald Trump should face accountability for trying to overthrow the 2020 election, I think is much more serious. That's one of

the reasons why Trump's legal team hoped that this hush money trial, if any trial was going to take place before the election, it would be this one.

You know, there are a lot of Democrats who are very unhappy with the Supreme Court for taking this case in the first place because they see this

as a delaying attempt by the former president. And it raises, I think, what is quite a fundamental question for American democracy. Is it going to be

possible to bring a former president who tried to overthrow a democratic election to account before the next election?


And if it's not, and Trump becomes president again, I think that has pretty profound consequences for the way he'd run a second administration, which

he's already said would be devoted to personal retribution.

CHATTERLEY: Stephen, great to have you with us. Stephen Collinson.


CHATTERLEY: Now, pro-Palestinian protests and sit-ins continue across U.S. campuses. This chaotic scene is from Emory University in Atlanta just hours

ago, where police arrested protesters, at least two professors were also detained.

And in Boston, a new encampment has been set up at Northeastern University. You can see demonstrators forming a human chain around tents. And

meanwhile, over on the West Coast, the University of Southern California says it's cancelling their mainstage graduation ceremony now next month.

Isabel Rosales is at Northeastern University in Boston. Isabel, great to have you back with us. Just talk us through what you've seen today. And can

you give me a sense, because I keep getting asked this, how many people are there, whether activists or student protesters relative to the population

of the school in general? What's the scale of this?

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Julia, good to see you again. Yes, it's tough to get a measure of the number of people here. It's kind of flowing

in. They've been coming in and out. Some of them clearly students. They have shirts that say Northeastern. Some not from the school, reading

Emerson University College rather. It's just difficult to know how many of them are here or are coming out and joining this protest.

This is the pro-Palestinian encampment right behind me, about half a dozen or so tents that just came up a couple of hours ago just today.

And I want to bring you back to a tense moment that happened just four hours ago. If we have that video that we can play. And you're going to see

Boston police marching on to this lawn area where the encampment is in and they are wearing crowd control gear. They're wearing helmets with a face

mask. They have zip tie handcuffs on them.

I also saw and heard school administrators going around the crowds, those observing what was happening here and saying to them, you need to show your

IDs. We're urging you to leave. The protesters, in response to this police presence, we saw them sitting down, linking arms, saying, who do you

protect? Who do you serve and who school, our school?

And after 20 tense minutes, for some reason, that it's not clear to us, those officers retreated. They withdrew from campus. We did not see any

arrests happening here on campus, and those crowds cheering when the officers left. Campus police though, you can see them right over there,

they still remain. They look pretty relaxed. Everything is pretty calm and quiet.

Meanwhile, Northeastern tells us that this protest that you're seeing, this encampment, is unauthorized. That it is a violation of the student conduct

policy, and they're saying that anyone here on campus who does not have an ID, who's not affiliated with the school, is trespassing.

What became also clear throughout the day is the differences of opinions. We know that demonstrators are here urging the school, demanding, rather,

that they divest from any ties to the Israeli government and also very much against the war happening in Gaza.

We also spoke with Jewish students who were counter protesting just across the way here from this lawn displaying Israeli flags, just quiet. To them -

- I spoke with one of them saying that he felt unsafe, saying that specifically he paid attention to the chants and had an issue with the

phrasing of those chants mentioning intifada and from the river to the sea, something he says that so many Israelis view as antisemitic.

Here's what else he had to say. And a former professor, listen.


MAX KLINGER, NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY FRESHMAN: It's definitely threatening, but we're not scared. We're here with our flags and we're

showing our support in a time of darkness, we're bringing some light, showing support for our troops in Israel and for the hostages that are

still held. And we'll remain here and continue to show our support.

MARTY BLATT, EMERITUS PROFESSOR, NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY: Every single university in Gaza has been blown to smithereens. Faculty and students have

been murdered, have been injured, have been arrested. That's the story. And that's why these students are out here. They are standing for justice for



CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's interesting to get the sort of differing perspectives from people that are there protesting. Even just eyeballing

it, Isabel. I mean, I'm sort of trying to look at the number of people just behind you, even if you eyeball it, if it's not more than, what, three and

380 people, then it's still sort of 1 percent or less than the student population.

I just think the pictures at times can be very dramatic and not to underplay the importance of this, but just to get a sense of how much of

the student body, and maybe there's additions, let's be clear, are actually involved in this. It's quite fascinating to see.


Ballpark guess. Just quickly. Who's behind you? How many?

ROSALES: I think under 100.


ROSALES: I think under 100 people, safe to say, throughout the day. And to your point, this is a major university. And we've been to so many campuses,

Yale, Harvard, just outside of the MIT, and there is a strong -- there's a strong showing, but in comparison to the student population, sure, probably

a fraction.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, it's so important. The context here is so important. And that makes it sort of about 0.3 percent of the student body. Isabel, great

to have you with us. Thank you. Isabel Rosales there.

All right. Next, a heart wrenching sight in Australia as more than 150 whales get stranded. We'll have the details on mission rescue.


CHATTERLEY: In Australia, a dramatic rescue to save more than 100 beached whales on the western coast. Rescue teams rushed to the shores of

Dunsborough, south of Perth, where around 160 pilot whales were stranded.

Officials say 130 whales were returned to the sea. But sadly, more than two dozen died. Despite those deaths, the rescue is being hailed as an overall

success, and marine staff are also talking about the experience, saying what they faced felt pretty overwhelming. Isa Soares has more.


ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST (voice-over): With a big heave ho, a stranded whale is pulled to shore. Rescue teams rushed to Western

Australia's coast on Thursday to undertake a dramatic operation, rescuing around 130 pilot whales after at least 160 were beached.

Although volunteers and wildlife officials managed to rescue some to sea, the exercise was only partially successful after at least 28 died.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As maybe a wake up to humanity to see how we're treating the water, how we're treating the planet.

SOARES (voice-over): Animal behaviorists and marine scientists have previously said survival rates for beached whales is low, surviving for

only six hours on land before they start to deteriorate. But with this mass stranding, it was the community's spirit that shone through, as locals and

officials worked side by side to keep the whales upright and their blowholes clear.


Whilst the reason for whales strandings continue to puzzle experts, some theorize there may be an annoyance disturbance or an illness within the

whales' pod that caused the mass stranding. But ultimately, they just don't know.

HOLLY RAUDINO, SENIOR RESEARCH SCIENTIST, MARINE FAUNA: Young ones. But, yes, no initial ideas as to what's caused the stranding.

SOARES (voice-over): And it's not only Australia where this mystery takes place. Last year, more than 50 whales died in a mass stranding event in

Scotland. After frantic efforts to revive the few who were found alive yielding no results, officials had to make the heartbreaking decision to

euthanize them.

As for some of the lucky whales who survived this incident, rescue teams said it was good news.

Isa Soares, CNN, London.


CHATTERLEY: What a mission. All right. Coming up on FIRST MOVE. Are Manchester City still staying on course for an unprecedented fourth

straight Premier League title? We'll have the results of their Thursday night matchup, next.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to FIRST MOVE. Manchester City continue their quest to win the English Premier League title, beating Brighton with four

goals to nil. They're hoping to become the first team to finish on top for four straight seasons.

Don Riddell joins us now. Don, regular viewers will know my journalistic integrity and balance flees out of the nearest exit when this kind of

subjects are concerned and Liverpool was is in contention. My father has also muted this segment. They're now, what, one point behind Arsenal with a

game in hand.

DON RIDDELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: Yes. Well, look, as we discussed 24 hours ago, Julia, it's not looking great for Liverpool. However, Manchester City,

it's in their hands. I think fans of Liverpool and Arsenal were hoping that they go to Brighton on Thursday evening. And the Brighton, who are a very,

very good team and a very competitive team, would be able to do something. But City just absolutely thrashed them.

Let's just show you the highlights because there was some great highlights in this game. Kevin De Bruyne is such a great player for Man City. He is

the playmaker. We've never seen him do that before. His first ever Premier League header, and what an absolute beauty.

It was big night for Phil Foden as well. He scored two. That was a deflected free kick. But it was his 50th Premier League goal. And this is

his 51st. Basically, this game was over by halftime. City three-nil up.

They did get another goal in the second half though. Julian Alvarez putting the ball in the back of the net. And so, it means that Man City, whilst

still only second in the table, they're now just a point behind Arsenal. They have a game in hand over the Gunners, and if City can win their last

five games this season, then, as you say, Julia, that will be a fourth straight Premier League title for Pep Guardiola's men. Nobody's ever done



It would also be a sixth Premier League title in seven seasons, which is just an extraordinary streak of dominance.

Arsenal will be hoping that they can keep winning all their games. They've got the North London Derby coming up this weekend. They'll be hoping if

they can keep winning, maybe Man City will slip up. But it just doesn't seem likely, does it? City have been here so many times, the chances of

them fluffing their lines with the big prize in sight is slim. But I guess, you never know.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, they're playing like they deserve it as well, unlike Liverpool. I'm sorry to say at this stage.

RIDDELL: True. Yes.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. Who are they playing, by the way next?

RIDDELL: Well, Man City have got Nottingham Forest next. That is a game, again, I think you would expect them to win.


RIDDELL: They don't have the most taxing of games on the run in. And they don't have to play any of their title rivals either. So, yes. Your money's

on City, I would suggest.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, I would suggest too. For non-soccer or football fans, I apologize for this segment. It was a necessary evil. Don Riddell, thank you

so much.

All right. That just about wraps up the show. Thank you for joining us. I'll see you tomorrow.