Return to Transcripts main page
First Move with Julia Chatterley
Cohen's Credibility Attacked; Trump's Hush Money Trial; Trump On Trial; Biden's China Tariffs; China Vows To Defend Its Interests; U.S.- China Relations; Blinken's Surprise Visit To Kyiv; U.S.'s Unwavering Support To Ukraine; Georgia Protests; Riot Police Clash With Protesters; Former U.S. Ambassador On China Tariffs; New China Tariffs; U.K's Spying Allegations; Manchester City In On Fourth Straight Title; Elephant Rescue And Rehabilitation; Elephant Mother. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired May 14, 2024 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: On the yacht, neither related to Captain Ahab as far as we could tell by press time, says they felt sudden
blows to the hull and rudder before water began seeping into the yacht. They were rescued unharmed. Experts are not sure why exactly this happened,
but say the whales may have just been playing.
OK. CNN's coverage of the New York hush money cover-up case picks up next with Wolf Blitzer right next door in a place I like to call "The Situation
Room." I'll see you back here on the lead tomorrow.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: -- Beijing, 7:00 a.m. in Tokyo, and 6:00 p.m. here in New York. I'm Julia Chatterley. And wherever you are
in the world, this is your "First Move."
And a warm welcome as always to "First Move." And here's today's need to know. Cohen's credibility. Donald Trump's former fixer under attack after
saying he regrets lying for the former president.
Tariff man, take two. President Biden announce his targeted tariffs on Chinese solar panels, EVs, and some commodities. China vows to defend its
interests.
Political protests. Riot police clash with demonstrators in Georgia over the adoption of what critics call a Russia style law on foreign influence.
And --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEK CHAILERT, FOUNDER, SAVE ELEPHANT FOUNDATION: They call me a liar. And they want to get rid of me. Sometimes they came with a gun. I worry about
my life, but I won't stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: The woman risking her life to save abused elephants in Thailand. We speak to the award-winning conservationist and so -- known as
Elephant Mother, Lek Chailert. That conversation and more coming up.
But first, an intense cross-examination. Donald Trump's defense team trying to discredit Michael Cohen, the prosecution's star witness in the former
president's hush money trial.
During fiery exchanges, Cohen was pressed about his shifting views on the former president. After the trial wrapped for the day, Donald Trump told
reporters, "It was a very good day." The defense will resume asking questions on Thursday. And Kara Scannell has more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Trump's ex-lawyer, Michael Cohen, back on the stand, this time facing an aggressive cross-examination
by Former President Donald Trump's attorney as his criminal trial continued on Tuesday.
Trump's attorney, Todd Blanche, in rapid fire questioning that jumped around from year to year, tried to paint Cohen as an unreliable witness,
attacking his testimony and showcasing his hatred for Trump.
MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER LAWYER OF DONALD TRUMP: My credibility should not be in question.
SCANNELL (voice-over): Blanche asked Cohen, do you want to see President Trump convicted in this case? Cohen responded, sure. Blanche also
highlighted disparaging remarks Cohen has made about Trump on his TikTok page during the trial, like calling Trump a dictator D-bag, even though
Cohen confirmed prosecutors asked him to stop publicly talking about the case.
COHEN: I should have done something, but I didn't.
SCANNELL (voice-over): Blanche pointed to merchandise Cohen sells on his TikTok and podcast websites, including a mug that says, send him to the big
house, not the White House, and a T-shirt depicting Trump in an orange jumpsuit.
Blanche questioned Cohen if he talked to the media, including CNN, last year about the case, despite the district attorney's office asking him not
to.
COHEN: Most recently, they asked for my cell phones because they want to be able to extract from it the voice recordings that I had had with Keith
Davidson, former attorney to Stormy Daniels.
SCANNELL (voice-over): Blanche went through positive statements Cohen made about Trump during his decade working for him. He asked Cohen if he was
obsessed with Trump. Cohen replied, I don't know if I would characterize the word obsessed. I admired him tremendously. Cohen added that, at that
time, I was knee deep into the cult of Donald Trump. Blanche suggesting Cohen changed his view on Trump to help his own legal problems.
COHEN: He needs to be held accountable.
SCANNELL (voice-over): Earlier Tuesday, during the end of direct examination, prosecutors zeroed in on the repayments at the crux of the
criminal charges against Trump.
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is their old case. Are you allowed to call a legal expense a legal
expense?
SCANNELL (voice-over): Cohen testified it began with a 2017 Oval Office meeting with Trump, where he said they discussed how he would be reimbursed
for the $130,000 he paid out of pocket to Stormy Daniels.
Despite Cohen saying he did minimal work for Trump in 2017, going month by month, he outlined sending made up invoices and receiving checks totaling
$420,000, which he said included the hush money reimbursement, other fees, and a bonus.
[18:05:00]
Prosecutors showed one of the $35,000 checks signed by Trump and asked, were any of those checks in fact for work during the months described in
those check stubs? No, ma'am, Cohen replied. Cohen testified to this in front of Congress in 2019.
COHEN: This $35,000 check was one of 11 check installments that was paid throughout the year while he was president.
The president of the United States thus wrote a personal check for the payment of hush money as part of a criminal scheme to violate campaign
finance laws.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: We'll get more analysis of what we heard in Tuesday's session later in the show.
For now, U.S. President Joe Biden has announced steep yet targeted new tariffs on Chinese imports. He spoke from the White House Tuesday, accusing
China of not playing by the rules.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: The fact is American workers are -- can outwork and outcompete anyone, as long as the competition is fair, but for too
long, it hasn't been fair.
For years, the Chinese government has poured state money into Chinese companies across a whole range of industries. China heavily subsidized all
these products, pushing Chinese companies to produce far more than the rest of the world can absorb. And then dumping the excess products onto the
market in unfairly low prices.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: The Biden administration is honing in on specific sectors it considers important to U.S. national security, and that includes electric
vehicle imports, which now face a tariff of 100 percent. And China lost no time in responding, saying it will defend its interests. MJ Lee joins us
now from the White House.
MJ, President Biden was one of the loudest critics, I think, of Trump's tariffs on Chinese goods, saying that they hurt American businesses that
were importing those goods. They raised price for the consumers. How have they managed to find a balance between protecting American workers but also
limiting the short-term impact that consumers face?
MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, such an interesting point there. Fast forward a couple of years, and here we are, President
Biden making this announcement today, raising tariffs of some $18 billion worth of Chinese imports. And this is on a wide range of goods, including
semiconductors, electric vehicles, solar cells, and critical minerals. And all of this gets to sort of the broader effort that we've seen from the
Biden administration to try to protect and shore up American industries from what the president claims are rampant and unfair business practices
that he has seen from Beijing that he says are hurting American workers.
The biggest increase will come on Chinese electric vehicles. And those tariffs, we are learning from the White House today, will quadruple. And
again, all of that is to counter these heavy tariffs from Beijing on U.S. car imports and an effort to try to bolster the U.S. auto industry, which,
of course, is in a period of major transition right now to the clean energy technologies.
Now, Beijing, of course, had a very swift response to all of this saying today, a spokesperson, that China will take all necessary actions to
protect its legitimate rights.
Now, President Biden, in an interview, for his part, predicted that it was very possible that there would be some kind of retaliation from Beijing.
This is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I'm sure China will talk a lot about it, but the fact is, China already is, what you might say, way over their skis on this. And what
they'll do, I don't think they'll lead to any international conflict or anything like that. But I think they'll probably try to figure out how they
can raise tariffs, maybe on products that are unrelated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEE: And just to zoom out and revisit that earlier point that you were making about Former President Donald Trump when he announced a set of
sweeping tariffs on Chinese imports when he was president, this was something that President Biden at the time was critical of. So, the step
that we are seeing today from this administration is not only keeping those tariffs in place, but actually expanding on that program.
Now, I should also point out that this is, of course, coming just months ahead of the November presidential election. So, really, politics are very
much in play. We know that President Biden is looking at states like Pennsylvania, like Michigan, for example, where he wants to be able to
point to a resurgence and re-emergence of the auto industry in places like that. And of course, he's going to be pointing to this announcement to say
that all of this goes towards that goal.
[18:10:00]
CHATTERLEY: Yes. MJ, he's obviously countering the former president's promise to enact 60 percent tariffs on Chinese imports, of course, in a
blanket 10 percent tariff, I believe, on any incoming imports. So, it's a case of anything you can do, I can do better. We shall see. MJ Lee, thank
you for that.
Now, we'll be speaking with former U.S. ambassador to China, Gary Locke, on this story just after the break.
In the meantime, as Russia makes a push in Eastern Ukraine, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken has made a surprise trip to Kyiv. He met with
Ukraine's president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, before giving a speech at a university. Blinken said long-awaited military support for Ukraine had
started to arrive, reiterating Ukraine was not alone in this fight.
A new U.S. support package finally passed Congress late last month after Republicans blocked its passage for months.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Our joint task is to secure Ukraine's sustained and permanent strategic advantage so that Ukraine can
not only deliver on the battlefield today, but deter and defend against future attacks.
As President Biden said, we want Ukraine to win and we're committed to helping you do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: The U.S. secretary of state there. And Fred Pleitgen has more from Berlin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Russians are saying that they are making a pretty big push in the northeast
of the country, trying to move towards Ukraine's second largest city of Kharkiv.
Now, the Ukrainians are acknowledging that they are struggling somewhat on the battlefield, that the Russians have had tactical success, as the
Ukrainians have put it. At the same time, the Ukrainians are also saying that they are trying to fortify their positions on the front lines and that
they are trying to push the Russians back. But obviously, that's very difficult because the Ukrainians are saying that they are both outmanned
and certainly very much outgunned.
And that was, of course, also part and a topic at the meeting between the secretary of state, Blinken, and the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr
Zelenskyy. Volodymyr Zelenskyy had said that they are very thankful for the U.S. aid package that has now come through. But certainly, the Ukrainians
need a lot more. The secretary of state, he came out and he said that some of the aid that the U.S. has pledged is already inside of Ukraine and that
a lot more is on the way.
As far as the Ukrainians are concerned, they say, first and foremost, they need ammunition of pretty much all kinds, but one of the main ones is 155-
millimeter artillery shells, which they certainly have not had enough of over the past couple of months as some of that U.S. aid was stalled. Also,
rocket artillery, ammunition, missiles are very important for them as well.
But there was one thing that Volodymyr Zelenskyy came out and he said that he wanted to emphasize, and that is that the Ukrainians need more air
defense missiles and air defense systems. One that he spoke about is the U.S. made Patriot system. And he said that the Ukrainians essentially need
two of these systems just for the Kharkiv region, because they're having so many problems there.
One of the reasons for that is that the Russians right now are much more capable at using their air force effectively than they have been in the
past. They have managed now to outfit some of their Soviet era bombs with both guidance kits and wings, allowing their jets to drop them a lot
further away from the front lines. And the Ukrainians are saying the only surface to air missile system that can stop those jets would be the U.S.
made Patriots. So, that certainly is a point of emphasis for the Ukrainians.
At the same time, of course, they do say that they are very grateful for the visit of the secretary of state. The secretary of state saying that the
Ukrainians have the U.S.'s support.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Berlin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Now, chaotic scenes playing out in the Georgian capital after the country's parliament passed the controversial foreign agents bill. Riot
police clashed with protesters who'd broken into parliamentary grounds. Many fear the bill could push Georgia back into Russia's orbit and
jeopardize the country's chances of joining the European Union, as Clare Sebastian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Storming the barricades. Protesters in the Georgian capital refusing to accept their weeks long
battle could be lost.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They can scare us. They can do anything to make us go away. We are going to stay here and fight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are not Russian. We are not Belarus. We will not allow anyone to brand us as foreign agents. We will resist.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Protestors faced down a wall of riot police pushing them back just hours after opposition in government faced off in
parliament.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): You are the Russian regime. You are the illegitimate Russian regime.
ANA TSITLIDZE, GEORGIAN MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT, UNITED NATIONAL MOVEMENT (through translator): It's double standards and the hypocrisy of the
opposition.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Georgia's pro-European majority has tasted success. Scenes like this last year forced the government to scrap the same so-
called foreign agent bill, seen here as a replica of a repressive Russian law and a sign of Moscow's growing influence in this small post-Soviet
state.
[18:15:00]
Then, in March, barely three months after gaining E.U. candidate status, the Georgian government revived the law, in a rare appearance in late
April, the ruling party's honorary leader and most powerful driving force lashing out at the West.
BIDZINA IVANISHVILI, RULING PARTY HONORARY CHAIRMAN, GEORGIAN DREAM (through translator): Despite the promises of the 2008 Bucharest Summit,
Georgia and Ukraine have not been accepted into NATO and have been left out to dry. All those decisions are made by the Global Party of War.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): As protesters grew more determined, the police response escalated. Violence widely condemned by the European Union.
In this shocking attack on May 1st, opposition leader Levan Khabeishvili says he was deliberately targeted, his bruises still visible.
LEVAN KHABEISHVILI, GEORGIAN OPPOSITION LEADER, UNITED NATIONAL MOVEMENT (through translator): They did not get what they wanted from me. They were
filming to upload the video afterwards and to show the opposition leader in a state that would discredit me.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): And violence not the only means of intimidation. Transparency International says these posters of its local executive
director appeared a few days ago outside its offices and those of other NGOs. The text reads, traitor and grant guzzler.
EKA GIGAURI, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, TRANSPARENCY INTERNATIONAL: You are under the attack all the time. So, the governmental officials and even the prime
minister would organize the press conference where they would single you out.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Still, the drumbeat of opposition in Georgia grows louder. This is a country at a crossroads. E.U. making it clear, if this
bill becomes law, future membership is at serious risk.
Clare Sebastian, CNN, London.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: OK. Straight ahead for us, play fair or pay the consequences. That's the message from U.S. President Joe Biden. We'll discuss the
economic and political fallout with China.
And meet the woman with a heart as big as the magnificent animals she rescues. The so-called Elephant Mother coming up on "First Move."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." And a good morning if you're waking up with us in Asia. In today's "Money Move," U.S. stocks finished
higher on Tuesday as Wall Street awaits the latest consumer inflation report. That's out Wednesday morning here in the United States.
[18:20:00]
The Nasdaq managed to close, however, at a fresh record high. The S&P 500 and the Dow also advancing in the session. Over in Europe, the FTSE
bouncing back after snapping a six-session winning streak on Monday. Germany's Xetra Dax closing lower, underperforming amongst its regional
peers.
Asia markets in the meantime, well, the Hang Seng ended lower, though tech giants Alibaba and Tencent both posted gains after their earnings or latest
earnings reports.
Now, returning to one of our top stories today, President Joe Biden ramping up tariffs on Chinese imports. We're talking $18 billion worth of imports.
It does target a few specific sectors, including steel, solar panels, and electric vehicles. China has responded with a foreign ministry spokesperson
saying it would take "all necessary actions to protect its legitimate rights."
We're joined now by Gary Locke, former U.S. Ambassador to China and former U.S. commerce secretary too. Ambassador, great to have you with us. It's
good that we get both hats, the political and the economics when we talk to you.
I think it's very clear that these are far more targeted in terms of tariffs than were enacted by the Trump administration. Admittedly,
President Biden was very critical of those. What's your assessment and how would you characterize the tariffs that were announced today?
GARY LOCKE, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO CHINA: Well, thank you very much, Julia, for having me on. These are very strategic, very targeted actions by
the Biden administration to address some of the unfair trade practices and the subsidies that the Chinese government provides to many of these goods
and these industries.
At the same time, the Biden administration is trying to promote more manufacturing in America of these very products, such as a semiconductor,
solar panels, and electric vehicles. And so, by imposing these tariffs, it will raise the cost of the Chinese goods, which are unfairly and below
normal market prices to begin with.
So, it will raise the prices of these Chinese goods and then help keep the price of American goods, these same American products built in America,
manufactured in America, and bring them down to make them more cost competitive. Because the Biden administration has passed -- gotten through
the Congress a whole host of tax incentives, encouraging the manufacturing of semiconductors, electric vehicles, solar panels in America.
So, this is really part of his commitment to bringing manufacturing back to the United States, making it more competitive for the manufacturing and the
production of these goods in America by also raising the prices of the Chinese goods.
CHATTERLEY: Would you agree that there's more of a political message perhaps more than the immediate economics to your point about finding this
strategic balance between the impact that it does have on consumers, at least in the short-term and in businesses in the United States, versus I'm
trying to put pressure on Chinese manufacturers?
I mean, at the moment, just 2 percent of U.S. imports of electric vehicles come from China. I think steel imports are less than 3 percent of overall
imports of steel, too. So, it's sending a message both to the industries here and to China. But actually, without doing too much, at least in the
moment, we can talk about the future separately perhaps.
LOCKE: Well, I think that some of these tariffs, for instance, on Chinese electric vehicles, while there are very few coming into the United States
right now, we know that there are plans by the Chinese companies to set up huge manufacturing facilities in places like Mexico to then take advantage
of the U.S., Canada, Mexico free trade agreement.
But again, these are artificially low prices that the Chinese companies will charge because of all the policies that the Chinese government and the
incentives that the Chinese government provides these Chinese automobile makers.
So, what the Biden administration is trying to do is to create that climate to support manufacturing, more manufacturing of electric vehicles in
America. Providing jobs for the American people by heading off the possibility of a huge flooding of Chinese electric vehicles into the United
States.
CHATTERLEY: The irony of the response from China is that they already deeply protect their own interests and restrict entry for foreign
investment from the United States and businesses certainly operating or selling to Chinese consumers already. They also understand it's an election
year in the United States.
Do you expect any kind of response, actionable response from the Chinese as a result of these additional tariffs?
LOCKE: Well, I'm sure the Chinese will look at possible retaliatory tariffs on U.S. goods going into China. They already have retaliated. They might
raise the tariffs on -- even further on some of these American goods.
[18:25:00]
But what's also interesting about the Biden administration's approach is that not only are -- is the United States imposing tariffs on these very
selective, strategic items where America really wants to bring manufacturing back and boost manufacturing of these products and goods in
the United States, but it's also working with many of the other western allies who have similar concerns and complaints about China's trade
policies and unfair subsidies and coordinating with them because they are now looking at imposing tariffs on some of these Chinese goods as well.
That's the difference from the Trump approach, where it was simply unilateral action by the United States, not in concert or coordination with
the actions of other governments.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I think that's an incredibly important point. It will be interesting to see if the Europeans in particular, where EVs are concerned,
because you are seeing high proliferation there, decide to act in conjunction with the United States. Ambassador, great to chat to you. Thank
you for your perspective. Gary Locke there, former U.S. ambassador to China. All right.
LOCKE: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you. Turning now to Canada, where fires are closing in on multiple towns. The nation's wildfire season is off to an extreme start,
fueled by new fires as well as older, so-called zombie fires. That's when the remains of last year's blazes survived the winter by burning deep
underground.
Now, normally, winter weather would put them out. However, climate crisis, years of drought have allowed them to take hold. For more on this, I'm
joined by Bill Weir. Bill, that doesn't sound good. Zombie fires. Can you give us a sense of what proportion are zombie fires that simply didn't go
out from last year versus what's burning new?
BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: It's hard to tell, Julia. This is -- a lot of these regions are so far north. There's higher latitudes and
remote. Some could be lightning strikes. There's a lot of dry fuel there as well, but over 100 fires burning.
And if you look at the sum total, that's where you really get the perspective. On an average year, just taken the last decade and just
averaging it out, at this point in the date, on the calendar, not yet in June, there should be about 884 fires, average. There's 986 burning right
now. And in a typical year it's about 260,000 acres would burn. Right now, it's well over 4 million, and we're not even into June in the beginning of
summer right now.
And of course, this matters far beyond Manitoba and Alberta, British Columbia, where these fires are happening, you get these air quality alerts
now in the Northern U.S. The Twin Cities, Minneapolis, St. Paul were -- was among the 10 dirtiest air cities in the world yesterday, and if this is the
beginning of a smoky summer, that's something to think about.
CHATTERLEY: Bill, you and I were talking about what we saw in 2023 and that was record temperatures, record fossil fuel burning, record emissions,
everything was going in the wrong direction. I saw a report in -- or a study in "Journal Nature" that said last summer was the hottest summer that
we've seen in 2000 years, clearly, beyond records, and we're already starting to see wildfire season earlier than we have in the past. This is
what we're looking ahead to, Will, surely if we, again, don't do something about this.
WEIR: It really is. Yes, this could be one of the warmest or the coolest years of the rest of our lives. If you think about this trend right now,
because that curve of carbon pollution has not bent yet. And until that happens, it's just going to get warmer and warmer, I'm afraid.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and as we've seen, the air quality deteriorates further and further as we saw last year, and no doubt will this too. Bill, great to
have you. Thank you.
WEIR: You bet.
CHATTERLEY: Bill Weir there. Stay with CNN. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:31:51]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move" with a look at more of the international headlines this hour. The Biden administration believes Israel
has enough troops around Rafah to begin a full-scale invasion, that's according to two senior administration officials. However, they aren't sure
if Israel has officially deciding to go ahead with the plan. This, as the Israeli military says, it struck a U.N. school in central Gaza, saying it
housed a "Hamas war room."
Russian President Vladimir Putin is set to meet with his Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping Thursday in Beijing. It will be his second visit in
less than a year and the latest sign of their growing alignment. For the U.S. and other western nations, that's been a cause of concern. They've
been pressuring Beijing over its apparent support for Russia's defense industry.
And Former Donald Trump fixer Michael Cohen endured a tough cross- examination Tuesday. Trump's defense attorney painted him as a man who is bent on revenge against a former boss. Cohen was questioned about his
social media posts as well as his money-making activities.
Michael Farkas is a criminal defense attorney and a former New York City prosecutor. Michael, great to have you with us. I appreciate. It's
incredibly tough to talk about this when you're not in the room and you're looking at transcripts.
But my understanding is part of the skill and what you hone as a defense attorney is that you take reams of evidence, perhaps, that you have and you
distill it and you tell a story that's easiest for the jury to understand. In that vein, how is Todd Blanche, who's Trump's defense lawyer, doing?
MICHAEL FARKAS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, thank you again for having me.
It's clear that they do have a universe of resource material from which to cross-examine a witness that really is unprecedented. It's rare that you
have this kind of database, so to speak, on someone's life. But there have been times -- again, it's hard since I wasn't sitting in the room, but it
does seem that there have been times where the jury may not know where he's going. You know, there may be so much information overload that the jury
may not be following exactly the point that Mr. Blanche is making.
Again, it's hard to tell, but that is a danger, both when you have this much material to work with and when you're not necessarily an experienced
criminal defense attorney.
CHATTERLEY: So, there was one piece that stood out to me. And again, I go back to the fact that we're reading this. So, it's very difficult to see
how it lands with the jury, but Trump's attorney, Todd Blanche, I'm going to read this quickly, is it fair to say you're motivated by fame? Cohen,
no, sir. I don't think it's fair to say. Blanche following up, is it fair to say you're motivated by publicity? Cohen responds, I don't know if
that's fair to say. I'm motivated by many things. Blanche then quotes from Cohen's book, "Disloyal." I wanted it all, power, the good life, public
acclaim, fame, big deals, fast cars, private planes, the excess, and glamour, and zest for life. Cohen says, those are my words, yes.
When you hear moments like this, when you understand that what the defense now have to do is try and tackle and damage the credibility of Michael
Cohen, this kind of thing looks pretty powerful. There are moments like this in it.
[18:35:00]
FARKAS: Yes, and the defense has done really an amazing amount of homework, and that's just one small example. This is going to go on many, many hours.
But remember that the prosecution has set the jury up for weeks now to expect things like this.
They have already basically told the jury, if not outright said to them through their testimony, all the witnesses' testimony and all the evidence,
that this person is unsavory, he's unlikable, he's a liar, he's greedy, he's boorish, he's unsavory. To the extent that they're expecting most of
this, this will really determine how the defense can be successful or not.
Because let me tell you, if the defense is not able to show the jury a guy who's worse than they're expecting, then they're not going to succeed.
CHATTERLEY: It's so interesting, you know, because we had a guest on the show yesterday that was saying, you've got to find that balance of not
looking like you're unreasonable. And being unreasonable and attacking Michael Cohen when he looks relatively reasonable based on what your
expectations were going into this. So, this is the difficulty of even judging when you're in the room, never mind on the outside.
Again, based on what you're reading and understanding, do you think he's provided the evidence required that the prosecution need in order to tie
Donald Trump to the payments, knowledge, and intent to limit what came out prior to the presidential election? Because in the end, that's what this
comes down to.
FARKAS: Sure. As a base matter, he certainly has done that. He's given the prosecution exactly what they need to tie Mr. Trump to the illegal
activity, right? He's, on the one hand, the only person on Earth who can state that Mr. Trump knew about and blessed not only the hush money
payment, but the effort to conceal it as something other than that, meaning legal fees, right?
He's the only one to say that. But you're not going to hear the prosecution in their summation say, you must rely on Mr. Cohen in order to make that
point. Because all of the other evidence that they've reduced, all the other testimony, all the other text messages and e-mails paint the picture
of Mr. Trump as a micromanager, of being laser focused on publicity and money, of Mr. Cohen being subservient. You know, the little spoiled boy who
just wants attention, nice little pat on the head by Mr. Trump in every aspect of his life. He would never do any of this without that blessing.
So, that's what the prosecutor is going to say. And again, the defense has to do everything they can to make Cohen look absolutely worse than the jury
is expecting.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. Former New York City Prosecutor Michael Farkas, great to get your thoughts there. Thank you.
FARKAS: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Now, to Hong Kong and the Hong Kong's leader criticizing the U.K. over the arrests of three alleged spies. The men are suspected of
working on behalf of Hong Kong's intelligence services. Hong Kong's chief executive calls the charges "a fabrication." Kristie Lu Stout has more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hong Kong's top leader has slammed the U.K.'s move to charge three men, including a Hong Kong public officer, with
aiding the city's intelligence service.
On Monday, the Chinese embassy in London issued a strongly worded statement condemning the case and saying it lodged stern representations with the
U.K.
And this morning, we heard from Hong Kong Chief Executive John Lee. Now, Lee, the city's former security chief, called for full information from
British authorities on the arrests of the three men, among them, the office manager of the Hong Kong Economic and Trade Office, or ETO, in London.
JOHN LEE, HONG KONG CHIEF EXECUTIVE: Any attempt to make unwarranted allegations against the Hong Kong SL government is unacceptable.
STOUT: The three were charged with offenses under Britain's National Security Act, according to a statement from the U.K. Metropolitan Police.
Chi Leung, Peter Wai, Matthew Trickett and Chung Biu Yuen are accused of assisting a foreign intelligence service between December and May this year
through "information gathering, surveillance, and acts of deception." That's according to P.A. media.
In addition, Met police say that they are accused of foreign interference. Met police also alleged that the three men forced entry into a U.K.
residential address, again, according to P.A. media. Now, all three were granted bail, but are barred from traveling abroad.
It's not clear who they were allegedly spying on. The U.K. has become a refuge for Hong Kong dissidents. Last month, the British Foreign Secretary
David Cameron assured Hong Kongers in the U.K. that they were safe from the reach of the national security law. The Met police say the investigation is
ongoing, but adds, there is no threat to the wider community.
Kristie Lu Stout, CNN, Hong Kong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Thanks to Kristie there.
Now, coming up on "First Move," a story of resilience, compassion, and the fight against animal abuse. We're joined by a very brave woman known as
Elephant Mother, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:42:41]
CHATTERLEY: OK. And in football's English Premier League, Manchester City is now just one match away from a fourth straight title heading into the
season of fires on weekend. City traveled to Tottenham tonight themselves playing for a chance to finish in the top four. But Pep Guardiola's team
did what they needed to, coming away with a two-nil victory. That means if they went on Sunday at home to West Ham, they'll pip arsenal to the title.
What about Liverpool? Darren Lewis is our senior sports analyst and has been keeping an eye on the action for us in London. The audience caught my
excitement about doing you now rather than later in the show. I apologize to everyone for that, but these things happen.
Darren, talk us through it.
DARREN LEWIS, CNN SENIOR SPORTS ANALYST: Well, it has been a dramatic night here in London. We've been watching it here from CNN HQ and a few miles
away at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, a really thrilling encounter involving the team fifth in the Premier League here in England and the
defending champions, Manchester City.
Now, just to give you a bit of context, Julie, no team has ever won the Premier League four times in a row, and that's what they had been bidding
to do. But Arsenal have been going great guns. They haven't won the league for 20 years now, and it looks very much as though they might well have the
title in their hands.
But City, despite their bad record at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, they've lost in each of the last four seasons by a single goal without
scoring, they were really good tonight. Really, really good. And they came out on top. Spurs did have lots of good chances. Didn't take them. City had
one terrific chance and did. And that's why they were celebrating at the end of the game.
And that's why it goes into Saturday -- into Sunday. It's the final game of the season. And again, just to give a bit of context around it, City are
the leaders now in the Premier League and Arsenal are second. Now, both teams have to win on the final day.
The problem for Arsenal is that on the last nine occasions that a team has led the Premier League going into the final day, they've always gone on to
win. And that's what City look as though they're going to do. A thrilling climax to a wonderful title race. Sadly though, Liverpool nodded it.
CHATTERLEY: I know. Darren, very quickly, are you a City supporter?
LEWIS: I'm a Liverpool fan, I have to -- I always keep it quite quiet, but I've now told all of Europe now.
CHATTERLEY: I knew I liked you. Darren Lewis, great. Thank you for that. We'll be back after this. Good night.
[18:45:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." And to a woman called the Elephant Mother and her relentless fight to rescue and protect elephants
from abuse from Thailand's vast tourism industry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHAILERT: They call me a liar. And they want to get rid of me. Sometimes they came with a gun. I worry about my life. But I won't stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Lek Chailert first established a safe space for elephants back in 1995, willing to take on, as you heard briefly there, a powerful tourism
lobby and elephant traders. Yet, it was only when the pandemic struck and Thailand closed its borders, curtailing the tourism industry for a while,
that she saw a dramatic opportunity to transform the lives of more endangered elements -- elephants.
A fantastic documentary, chronicling her unwavering dedication, premiering this week at theaters in New York. The film first released in 2022 in both
France and Germany. And I'm very excited to say Lek Chailert joins us now. She's the founder of Elephant Nature Park and the Save Elephant Foundation.
Lek, it is a huge honor to have you on the show. I watched the documentary and it was incredible. I just want to tell our audience how it began. I
think your mission began when you met elephants that were working in Thailand and you saw one, a really old bull, and you wanted to protect him.
You went back to try and save him and he'd already died. And that began your mission. Just talk about that moment and how it led you forward.
CHAILERT: Yes, that is the first elephant I met and I have the experience with him that is -- have changed my life. Because it's when I found him to
work at locking and he get abused and he get beaten very bad.
And during the time that he forced to work, he look at me and he's screaming. And his eyes express his feeling toward to me. And that moment,
you know, I feel everything via his eyes, his anger, his fear, and he's confused and hopeless and everything that is make me look -- I'm very sad.
You know, and I think that is -- if I want to do something, I want to help elephant.
CHATTERLEY: I think this is what people need to understand that when they see elephants performing, whether that's -- and you've described it in the
tourism industry, painting or picking up balls, they have to be trained. And some part of that is about sort of breaking their nature and breaking
their soul in order to make them pliable to do this.
[18:50:00]
And that was also when you launched your sanctuary, you just wanted to avoid, you just wanted them to be in peace and live as they should. They're
in safety, but they're also living like they're in the wild.
CHAILERT: Yes. You know, when the people go to Thailand or many countries in here, they're looking to see the elephant performing or they ride the
elephant, but they don't know what is behind the scene. And most of them, they have to go to the training class and separate the baby from the
mother, and they so much suffer.
And some of them work for the tourist industry for more than seven decades. And when they, when they come to us, and we go to rescue them, and many of
them become like a zombie. And they really terrible life, and they pass through quite a lot of things.
CHATTERLEY: How long does it take you, very quickly, Lek, to bring what you describe as a zombie back to acting like a normal elephant in some ways?
CHAILERT: You know, when we rescued the elephant to our project, more than 80 percent, they are traumatized and they have the mental issue. And many
of them that is -- doesn't know they are the elephant. It will take us -- it depends for how much they get abused. Some of them take like a year
until they wake up from the nightmare.
CHATTERLEY: OK. And while you're doing that incredible work, what the documentary shows is how much resistance you faced. Initially, elephants
were used in the teak logging industry. Then a lot of them moved into the tourism industry, as we've discussed, and were abused there. But that's a
very powerful industry in Thailand.
Just describe some of the pressure, some of the fear, I think, that you went through trying to do something good for these beautiful animals and
put your own life at risk in the process.
CHAILERT: Yes. You know, that -- when the elephant work in the tourist industry is involved a lot of -- bring money to the country. And it's not
easy at all to start to speak or talk about the cruelty. And many tourists maybe they don't know what going on behind the scene. And they -- you know,
they just want to go to enjoy with the elephant.
And to give an education for the people, to make people understand about how to travel with Kai (ph) and respond, this is something that is --
that's why I bring the voice for the elephant. And, you know, for the firm, that is when they come to firm us.
And I just -- during the COVID, we have a lot of trouble for -- of the situation of the elephant. That's why this firm come out and tell the
situation of the elephant during the pandemic.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, because that -- during the pandemic, when the tourism industry was under real pressure because the borders were shut, was when
actually you had the opportunity then to try and save more.
CHAILERT: Yes. During the pandemic, maybe people think it's good because no tourists, but many elephants are suffering because when there are no
tourists, the people don't have money to feed elephants, and many of them are falling down. And some of the camp chained elephant, 24 hours for many
years, and they are so much suffer. So, this is also the other thing that is to bring the elephant life to be more misery.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I mean, this is the key, as well as the numbers. There are about 4,000 wild elephants, I believe, in Thailand, according to WWF. 3,800
elephants, in addition, in captivity. So, we've actually got so few of them left.
If people are watching, like, what can they do? What can they do to help if they're inspired to try and help your foundation or, I think as you've said
too, if they're booking a trip to Thailand, and obviously people should go to Thailand, it's great to get tourists into Thailand, but they need to be
very careful where they book and who they're booking with, that they're helping protect elephants and not becoming part of the problem?
[18:55:00]
CHAILERT: Yes. You know, in the moment, it's so many elephant camp, maybe call themselves a sanctuary or they call themselves like a rescue park. But
many of them use only the name sanctuary for the marketing. Many of them still have like a -- in the morning part, they have the elephant show and
riding. And then afternoon, they do like an ethical program, and they call themselves sanctuary.
But I would like everyone to travel to Thailand to investigation enough, you know, to see that is the Aryan (ph) sanctuary or not. And sometime that
is when the elephant work in the press, they are not real sanctuary.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. Well, you have done incredible work. You've won awards for your work. And I know the hard work continues. And just for our viewers,
your name is a nickname. Lek means tiny and you are incredibly petite. But, oh, boy, do you have elephant size courage and compassion. Thank you for
everything --
CHAILERT: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: -- that you're doing. It's a huge honor and everyone needs to watch "Elephant Mother," the documentary.
CHAILERT: Yes, yes. If anyone want to go to see "Elephant Mother," tomorrow -- on Thursday we show at the Midnight Theater.
CHATTERLEY: There you go.
CHAILERT: In New York.
CHATTERLEY: Quick plug. Thank you, Lek.
CHAILERT: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: A huge you honor.
CHAILERT: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Thank you. The founder of the Elephant Nature Park and the Save Elephant Foundation.
And that just about wraps up the show. Thank you for joining us. I'll see you tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
