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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Georgia Trump Case Postponed; Boeing Starliner's Successful Launch; Boeing Spacecraft Heading to ISS; Nother Korea Tension; U.S. Flies B-1B Bombers Over Korean Peninsula; U.N. Chief Says "Highway to Climate Hell"; Western U.S. Suffers Intense Heat Dome; Alterra Fund's Green Financing Revolution; Investing in the Green Economy; Youth Movement for Equitable A.I.; Fighting for Equitable A.I.; World Leaders and Veterans Commemorate D-Day; Marking the 80th Anniversary of D-Day. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired June 05, 2024 - 18:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN HOST, FIRST MOVE: It's 6:00 a.m. in Taipei, 11:00 p.m. in London, and 6:00 p.m. here in New York. I'm Julia Chatterley. And
wherever you are in the world, this is your "First Move."
And a warm welcome to "First Move" once again, and here's today's need to know. Subversion suspension. Georgia's election conspiracy case against
Donald Trump now indefinitely postponed pending appeal.
Starliner to the stars, two NASA astronauts blasting off to the International Space Station, the maiden voyage of Boeing's spacecraft.
Military might. The U.S. flies long-range bombers over the Korean Peninsula and practices dropping live munitions for the first time in seven years.
And a highway to climate hell. That was the warning from the U.N. today after a year of record-breaking temperatures. However, we're speaking today
to the head of COP28, whose new fund is looking to fight the fire with billions of dollars in financing. All that and plenty more, coming up.
But first, a Georgia appeals court has hit pause on the election interference case against Donald Trump. That's until a panel of judges'
rules on whether the district attorney involved should be removed. Now, if you remember, a mini trial was held back in March after revelations that
D.A. Fani Willis had a relationship with the prosecutor she hired to lead the case.
Ultimately, the prosecutor, Nathan Wade, was forced to step down, though Fani Willis was allowed to stay. Trump and his co-defendants then appealed
that decision. And today's order means yet another delay.
And just keep your mind on this case. I just want to remind viewers of one of the key pieces of evidence in this case, that infamous phone call from
Donald Trump to Georgia's secretary of state. Just listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So, look, all I want to do is this, I just want to find 11,780 votes, which
is one more than we have because we won the state.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: OK. For more on this, we're joined by law professor James Sample. Great to have you with us, Professor Sample. I just wanted to give
our viewers a reminder of, as I mentioned there, one of the key pieces of evidence that may or may not be the last time we ever hear from that.
But my understanding is the appeals court has until March of 2025 in order to rule on this, though it could be a ruling that comes sooner, but it is
the sort of latest indication on this that probably nothing will happen before the presidential election either way.
JAMES SAMPLE, LAW PROFESSOR, HOFSTRA UNIVERSITY: I think that's absolutely right, Julia. And I think it is, in many respects, unfortunate because when
we say that it probably won't happen until March of 2025 or at least until the calendar year turns, we're not even talking about a trial on the merits
that would involve as the central piece of evidence that tape that you just played. We're talking about the mini trial, the trial within the trial, as
to whether or not Fani Willis is disqualified from participating in this case.
This development is a huge victory, not on the merits, not because he didn't do anything wrong, but merely because Donald Trump can avoid the
process of evidence and the court and the judicial process.
CHATTERLEY: And this is the crucial point, we're not talking about the actual case here. We're talking about questions that were asked about the
district attorney, the prosecutor that she hired. As I mentioned, we held that mini trial. The ultimate decision from the judge was look, OK, that
the prosecutor that Fani Willis hired had to leave, but she could stay.
Do you think that was the wrong decision in this case in light of all the evidence? Because had that decision perhaps not have been made, and the
decision would have been made that she then had to leave, the whole thing would have had to start it again. So, there was a delay anyway.
SAMPLE: Yes. I think that the situation is unfortunate at best. I mean, this is a rare scenario. I mean, less than a week ago, Donald Trump
suffered the consequences growing out of, at least, the predicate events involving a liaison of romantic sorts. This romantic liaison of sorts or
alleged romantic liaison between Fani Willis and Nathan Wade ends up redounding to Mr. Trump's extraordinary benefit.
[18:05:00]
Because what we're really looking at, Julia, now is a scenario where of the four criminal cases that Donald Trump is potentially facing, it appears
quite likely that the classified documents case in Florida will not go forward before the election.
Judge Aileen Cannon in Florida either seems to be over her skis and beyond her capacity or doing Donald Trump's bidding, but that case is nowhere near
going to trial. The January 6th case in Washington, D.C. is -- has been paused based on the Supreme Court taking up the absolute immunity argument
that the president pressed before the Supreme Court. And now, there's no chance that the Georgia case will go forward.
So, what we have actually is the fourth case, the New York case that was decided last week, that was Considered by many to have been "the weakest"
of the four cases ends up being the strongest because it actually went to trial.
CHATTERLEY: He made a habit during the Mueller investigation, the Russia interference investigation of pushing for an investigation into the
investigators, which in this case, he was arguably handed enough ammunition to create the delay that we're talking about, at least in the Georgia case.
I just want to flip now to the classified documents case where we also got a bit of news on that again. And the judge that's, sort of, leading all --
at least overseeing that case, allowing questions to be asked of the investigators in that case, too. To your point about what we're continuing
to see, which is further delays, it seems the case in that situation as well.
SAMPLE: I think that's a really, really good analogy on your part, Julia. I mean, I think Judge Aileen Cannon is going to hold a hearing on the
legitimacy or illegitimacy of the appointment of the special prosecutor, Jack Smith.
It is rich to say the least that a president who is currently campaigning on a platform of retribution and prosecuting his enemies is going to
challenge the legitimacy of the appointment of an independent prosecutor in the cases in which he is the one being prosecuted. But, as you say, the
ammunition was there in the Georgia case and the tactics, while not necessarily the tactics of the innocent, are the tactics that are proving
to be, for the most part, successful for him.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, the beauty of raising questions in one case allows you to use similar tactics in others. Unfortunately, or not, the question is, do
you trust the legal system? Professor James Sample, fantastic to have you, sir, from Hofstra University there. Great to chat to you once again.
SAMPLE: Thank you, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: All right. Third time's the charm for Boeing. I will never get tired of watching these launches. The Starliner spacecraft is now on its
way to the International Space Station. Previous attempts from Boeing's first crewed mission have faced technical issues. Starliner is expected to
dock with the station just after midday Eastern time on Thursday. That's around 18 hours from now.
A successful mission is crucial for Boeing to compete with Elon Musk's SpaceX and send astronauts to the International Space Station under NASA's
Commercial Crew Program. Kristin Fisher has more.
KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT: Julia, after years of delays and two recent scrubs, Boeing Starliner spacecraft has now
successfully put two NASA astronauts into orbit for the very first time.
NASA astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams are now on their way to the International Space Station where they will be docking with that orbiting
outpost in about 24 hours after launch. That's going to be around noon on Thursday. From there, they're going to spend about seven or eight days up
at the space station before boarding Starliner again for the trip home.
So, a very successful start to this mission, but still ways to go before we know for sure that this test flight is complete and a success.
You know, Julia, I think it's really important to remember that these test flights are so rare. There's only been six of them. This is the first time
in U.S. history. Six times that a new spacecraft has been flown for the very first time. Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, the space shuttle, SpaceX's Crew
Dragon, and now, Boeing Starliner.
And those last two, SpaceX and Boeing, they've been in a sort of competition ever since 2014 when NASA doled out these contracts for its
commercial crew program. Since then, SpaceX has launched multiple crews to the International Space Station. This, of course, is the first time for
Boeing. And so, NASA, thrilled that they finally have this redundancy that they have hoping for and working towards for the better part of a decade.
[18:10:00]
But some big cheers when this launch actually got off the ground on Wednesday morning. Afterwards, the head of Boeing's Starliner program, a
gentleman by the name of Mark Nappi. H said, the entire team breathing a sigh of relief. And to give you a sense for just how critical this mission
was and continues to be for Boeing, he said, not only is my boss here, but my boss's boss is here and my boss's boss's boss is here. So, all hands-on-
deck for Boeing to watch this first inaugural crewed flight of its Starliner spacecraft. Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Our thanks to Kristin Fisher there. Now, from an experimental spacecraft to a high-powered bomber, the U.S. military flew its B-1B Lancer
over the Korean Peninsula, dropping live munitions for the first time in seven years. It's part of a joint military exercise between the United
States and South Korea.
The show of force comes after fresh tensions ignited by North Korea's airborne trash delivery to the South via balloons. Will Ripley joins us on
that. Will, we certainly don't want to do a repeat of that conversation again. I think our regular viewers will be well aware of it, but let's not
go there.
This was a stunning showcase of the weaponry capabilities. Just put this in context, because I think the response from the North predictable in this
case.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the North is not going to be happy when you have these bombers that are capable of dropping
these massive bunker buster bombs that could theoretically hit the North Korean leadership and their underground network of tunnels and caverns or
perhaps hit some of their weapon supplies.
This is exactly, of course, what the United States wanted to demonstrate as tensions have been continuously ratcheting up. We gave the trash balloons a
lot of attention, but let's not forget, there was a barrage of short-range missiles launched last week in addition to the balloons, as well as a
failed satellite launch that triggered emergency warnings of potential falling debris in Japan. But of course, those warnings quickly cancelled
when the satellite blew up.
The question now, where is this headed? Because clearly, this is going to be seen as a major provocation by Kim Jong Un in North Korea.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RIPLEY (VOICE-OVER): Tonight, a major show of force. The U.S. flying a long-range B-1B bomber over the Korean Peninsula. The first precision
guided bombing drill with South Korea dropping live munitions in seven years, says Seoul, still cleaning up the mess from a massive barrage of
North Korean trash balloons. About 1,000 balloons floating full of filth and garbage. Some 15 tons of trash, raining down on residents all over
South Korea in recent days.
The first wave of trash balloons, triggering ominous cell phone alerts.
KIM MIN-HEE, RESIDENT OF YONGIN CITY, SOUTH KOREA (through translator): Why are they sending things like this? I'm worried that they might send
something dangerous.
RIPLEY (VOICE-OVER): Kim Yo Jong, younger sister of the North Korean leader, issued a statement calling the balloons a form of freedom of
expression, a response to South Korean activists who've been sending balloons to North Korea for years, carrying leaflets condemning Kim's
government.
South Korea's speedy response, possibly sending propaganda blaring loudspeakers back to the DMZ, the heavily armed border dividing the two
Koreas. Seoul suspending the 2018 inter-Korean military agreement, a deal to dial down tensions during the short-lived Korean detente before
diplomacy with Former President Trump and Kim went off the rails five years ago.
These days, Kim is suspected of trying to put more military spy satellites into orbit. Last week's failed launch triggering emergency sirens in Japan.
North Korea also launching a barrage of short-range ballistic missiles last week. President Biden telling "Time" magazine, North Korea remains a
serious threat. As long as there are nuclear weapons available, it's always going to be a problem.
Another problem, Vladimir Putin. U.S. intelligence warning of a deepening military alliance with the Russian strongman. Putin expected to visit Kim
in Pyongyang soon. With tensions rapidly rising between North and South Korea, and now U.S. bombing drills back in play, trash balloons may be the
least of our problems.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RIPLEY (on camera): And you know what I'm worried about, Julia, the fact that there have been no official talks between the United States and North
Korea in five years since the former Trump administration.
[18:15:00]
And if you look at the history of the Korean Peninsula, these cycles of escalation often lead to a crisis point. And then, the two sides decide
it's time to talk. It happened in the 1990s. It happened back in 2017 after the fire and fury. So, there's like these manufactured crises that keep
happening, followed by diplomacy.
But why does it have to be that way? Why can't the two sides talk? Well, North Korea, clearly not interesting in talking with the Biden
administration. If President Trump were to be re-elected, there might be a chance that Kim Jong Un could skeptically, with a lot of caution, consider
a conversation with the American president. But short of that, short of diplomacy, where is this going? You're just going to see more escalations
if history repeats itself. And on the Korean Peninsula, we know, Julia, it often does.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. Diplomacy has to dominate before that crisis point and not after. Will, we'll keep talking about it. Thank you so much. Will
Ripley there.
All right. Coming up on "First Move," another sobering warning from U.N. climate experts on the risk of missing those Paris climate targets to limit
global warming. But hold on, there's hope. My conversation with the head of the newly launched UAE climate fund Alterra about their ambitious plans to
raise money, stimulate investment and help the Global South. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." And midweek milestones and chipper chip producers on Wall Street topping today's "Money Move." I'm
clearly wearing the right color. Green on the screen with Nasdaq and the S&P rising to fresh records driven by fresh rate cut hopes.
And yet, another spike higher for chip maker NVIDIA, the A.I. chip giant, which splits its stock 10 for one later this week, simply because the price
got so high, has now surpassed Apple as the second most valuable company on Wall Street with a market cap of more than $3 trillion. It also closed up
more than 5 percent Wednesday. That's a fresh high too.
Now, stocks also benefiting from weaker than expected U.S. private sector jobs growth for last month, the hope you enjoyed that. being that it raises
the chances of the Fed being able to begin cutting rates. Canada actually became the first G7 nation to cut rates this cycle. On Wednesday, they cut
by a quarter point, another similar cut expected next month.
And then step forward, the European Central Bank also expected to cut their benchmark rates for the first time in five years on Thursday. And over in
Asia, Indian stocks recovered some of the losses suffered on Tuesday after news of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's less than decisive showing in
national elections.
[18:20:00]
Now, the Earth has just marked a terrifying new milestone, 12 straight months of record heat. That's according to a disturbing new report from the
European Union's Climate Change Service.
Its director warning that without reducing fossil fuels, future humans may think back on this time as relatively cool. The head of the United Nations
also refusing to pull his punches on Wednesday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONIO GUTERRES, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: We are playing Russian roulette with our planet. And we need an exit ramp off the highway to climate hell.
And the truth is we have control of the wheel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Bill Weir has more on this. But also, he has more on what may be the start of a hopeful trend too. Listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Across the American heartland came a conga line of devastating tornadoes, deadly
flooding from Brazil to Germany, a drought that has millions rationing water in Mexico City and temperatures close to 122 degrees in India, enough
to kill at least 33 poll workers on the same day in recent national elections. All are snapshots from a planet overheated by human activity,
where monthly heat records have been shattered for the last 12 months in a row.
WEIR: As somebody who has been studying sort of with intimate knowledge the climate crisis all these years, what do you make of what's happening
around the world these days?
KIM COBB, DIRECTOR, INSTITUTE FOR ENVIRONMENT AND SOCIETY, BROWN UNIVERSITY: I mean, Bill, this is just a dizzying rate of change that
we're experiencing right now. But in the near future, 2023 will register as a normal year. Whereas, in fact, if you look at those graphs, all you can
see is a vertical line shooting upward from the very recent warmest years on record. So, really just a record smashing year in 2023.
ANTONIO GUTERESS, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: Let me be very clear again. The phase out of fossil fuels is essential and inevitable. No amount of speed
or scare tactics will change that. Let's hope it doesn't come too late.
WEIR (voice-over): While the head of the United Nations has been railing against polluters and petrostates for years, he is using this report to
plead with world leaders to cut dirty fuels faster than ever. To kick in more for unfair loss and damage in developing countries and to ban all
advertising from oil, gas and coal companies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you could see the inside of your engine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We at Chevron believe that nothing is more precious than life.
WEIR: What do you make of the secretary-general's decision to really take new steps, to call for an end to fossil fuel advertising on television and
radio, to treat those ads the way you would for tobacco products?
LIZ BENTLEY, CHIEF EXECUTIVE PROFESSOR, ROYAL METEOROLOGICAL SOCIETY: Any policies that we can introduce at national level or even international
agreements to actually change the way we rely on fossil fuels are important. So, these actions, as you say, to treat fossil fuel adverts as
if it would be, you know, we treat banning conversations around tobacco or at least warning signs if you do smoke, these are the consequences. We need
to get, I think, more savvy to do that around greenhouse gas emissions as well.
WEIR (voice-over): To avoid the worst, scientists say global emissions must fall 9 percent a year until 2030. And while they still went up last
year, it was only by 1 percent thanks to a boom in clean wind and sun power, a sign that humanity could finally be on the verge of bending the
carbon curve.
COBB: Yes, 1 percent is in the wrong direction, but it's getting close to zero and then it can start going into the negative territory. So, in fact,
we are predicted to have peak fossil fuel emissions within the next year or two, which is something I frankly never saw coming even five years ago. So,
that's real progress. And I think people need to really appreciate that.
WEIR (voice-over): Bill weir, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: There are reasons for optimism now. Scientists in the meantime do say that heat domes are much more likely to happen as a result of global
warming like the ones we've been covering in the West United States and sadly, it's only expected to get worse.
Chad Myers joins us now from the CNN Weather Center. Chad, I can't even imagine looking back on this time and thinking, wow, that was relatively
cool, sort of head exploding. Shorter-term, tell us what we're looking at right now.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, I think if we get another heat dome in July and August in the same place, 112 is going to feel cool.
[18:25:00]
CHATTERLEY: Yes.
MYERS: Because we're only talking about 122 in Death Valley. And so, that could certainly be 127, 129 later on in the year, without a doubt.
Think of a heat dome like rolling up your windows in the car and parking it in the sun. Well, the sun can beat in, but because there's no wind inside,
the air doesn't leave. There's no place for it to go. This heat dome is like rolling up your windows. It's just keeping the heat in there. With
excessive heat warnings, temperatures, way above normal, a hundred or so. Record highs going to be set just in the next few days.
Where Phoenix, you're going to be 112. You should be 112 in the middle of the summer, once in a while. But not certainly this early. We haven't even
turned the calendar officially to summer. This is technically still spring, and we're some places 15 to 20 degrees above normal Fahrenheit over the
next couple of days. So, yes, it's hot in the Southwest.
But it's hot in other places too. Vegas is going to be 111 degrees tomorrow and that's going to be the heat. And the heat index, they're going to be
very, very hot there, even though the humidity is not that high, it's still high when you're talking, you know, over 100 degrees, which is, you know,
we're pushing 45, 47 degrees Celsius here.
It will rain across parts of China, but it's still going to be hot as well.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. Hot, hot, hot. That's the message. Chad Myers, thank you so much for that. All right. Coming up, helping solve the climate crisis
one innovative project at a time. The head of the UAE's ambitious new investment fund, Alterra, says investing in green energy can also mean
green gains, we're talking dollars, for investors. That discussion, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." With a look at more international headlines this hour. Medics in northern Israel say at least
10 people were injured following a drone attack launched by Hezbollah.
[18:30:00]
Washington is worried about rising tensions on Israel's border with Lebanon where the attack took place. Here's State Department Spokesperson Matthew
Miller.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEW MILLER, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: So, we do remain incredibly concerned about the risk of isolation along the Israel-Lebanon
border. It's something we've been concerned about since the immediate aftermath of October 7th, and we have been engaged in intense diplomatic
conversations and intense diplomatic negotiations to try to avoid that conflict from escalating beyond control.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Meanwhile, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu warns his nation is ready for "intense action" along the border.
The jury in Hunter Biden's gun possession trial heard testimony on Wednesday from his ex-wife and his former girlfriend, and the man who sold
him the gun at the center of the case. The son of U.S. President Joe Biden is accused of buying and possessing a firearm while abusing drugs, which is
a violation of U.S. laws.
Now, as we discussed earlier in the program, climate researchers said on Wednesday that the globe has just witnessed its 12th straight month of
record-breaking temperatures, highlighting the urgent need for more environmental solutions, and of course, the trillions of dollars needed to
fund them.
This investment challenge was front of mind at last December's COP28, hosted by the UAE, who also announced a $30 billion investment fund called
Alterra. Now, officials hope Alterra will attract money from the private sector and reach $250 billion by 2030. It has a particular focus too on
support for the Global South.
Now, I spoke to UAE ambassador, Majid Al Suwaidi, the director-general of COP28 and the CEO of the fund last week about the ambitions, but began by
asking him if the Paris targets are still even possible. The good news is, he said, it's not yet time to abandon hope. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAJID AL SUWAIDI, DIRECTOR-GENERAL, COP28: Last year, we spent the whole year traveling around the world, preparing for COP28, as you know, and when
we started the year, I didn't feel very confident. I knew that we were off track to achieve the Paris goals. We knew we were way off track for that
1.5-degree goal.
CHATTERLEY: Yes.
AL SUWAIDI: But after COP28, I have to say, I feel really much more confident that we're going to make it.
CHATTERLEY: But we're still offtrack?
AL SUWAIDI: Well, we're still offtrack.
CHATTERLEY: We're less offtrack.
AL SUWAIDI: For sure. But what the COP28 did was show the pathway to get us back on track. And as you know, one of the key things that we heard time
and time again throughout the year was that we needed more finance to be deployed. We know that today that we need trillions of dollars, not
billions of dollars, to get us to where we need to be. And that's why we're excited, and I'm excited to be here, talking about Alterra and talking
about this really game changing project.
CHATTERLEY: I think you've answered my next question. I was going to ask you if you could just click your fingers and do one thing without having to
go through governments or policymakers or trying to get all nations to agree, what would you do? And I guess it would be a money tree to come up
with the trillions of dollars that we need to --
AL SUWAIDI: Yes. Look, there's no doubt that it's going to be a real challenge to raise this capital. But I think that if there was one thing
that I would really hope that we could do, that is how we could change the narrative.
CHATTERLEY: Yes.
AL SUWAIDI: For so long before COP28, we had a narrative that was kind of, what are we taking away from people? And I think that what we need to look
at going forward is, what are we giving people? How do we make this an opportunity? How do we turn it from being a challenge to an opportunity
that people want to invest in and that they believe in? And I think that we took the first steps in doing that at COP28.
CHATTERLEY: Particularly, if want to encourage private capital to come into this, you have to understand. And it goes back to your point, I think,
about the narrative that investors are going to want a return. This is not a zero-sum game in that respect. Do you think that was also something that
came out of COP28? Because you guys came forward and said, look, we're going to put $30 billion up, but you want to make that $250 billion in six
years. How?
AL SUWAIDI: I think you've hit the nail on the head. We need to recognize that the investment community in the private sector has to step up.
CHATTERLEY: Right.
AL SUWAIDI: That we're only going to achieve the trillions if the private sector is there. And that's where Alterra was born, by the announcement of
our president, who really set in motion this -- and $30 billion fund initial capital that we hope can mobilize $250 billion. We have the scope
that we can invest globally, but we're focused on the Global South.
How do we get that investment into the Global South? We have scale, remote -- trying to mobilize $250. And then we have this unique structure of
having our transformation fund, which is catalytic money and our acceleration fund, which is commercial capital.
And why did we do that? Because we recognize that the worst development money out there, there was private money out there, but they weren't
communicating with each other to push capital into the Global South. So, what we hope we can be is that bridge between these two pools of capital
and we've seen success already.
[18:35:00]
We've committed $6.5 billion through our three partners, and they are building for us Global South funds, which will help us to deploy capital
into the Global South, and they're helping us to deploy our capital because of it.
CHATTERLEY: And this is so important because they need money not only for adaption, but also for mitigation of the impact of climate change, and it's
going to be the growth area really for the increase in electricity and power that we need over the coming years as well.
My understanding, though, is that in the transformation Fund, it's only $5 billion that goes towards the Global South. Why such a small fraction? Why
is it difficult, and we see it in the numbers, to attract capital for investment in the Global South?
AL SUWAIDI: Well, the key is that with the $5 billion is that it's catalytic. And so, why did we do that rather than just have concession
capital?
CHATTERLEY: Yes.
AL SUWAIDI: We knew that there were concessional funds out there. But what they needed to do was to tackle the risk, and the risk issues that we know
are out there. The catalytic capital is the incentive to get the private sector to come in so that we can go from $5 billion to $50 billion. And so,
that we can use it as a carrot, if you will, to attract the private sector, and we need the private sector to be thinking commercial.
We also wanted that Alterra was thinking commercial. That we were thinking about investments that were sustainable, investments that could scale, that
could grow, and could make a difference because we need that. We need scale.
CHATTERLEY: When you're talking to your investors at Alterra, what kind of returns are you saying to them? Because it goes to your point about the
risk reward (ph), particularly in the Global South and some of the emerging markets.
I mean, I think Africa -- I've got the numbers on Africa, it's 86 percent of total climate finance in Africa is public. It's just 4 percent in the
United States. People know where they're willing to put their money. It's changing that game as well.
AL SUWAIDI: Yes. And you've put the -- hit the nail on the head, exactly. We see 80 percent of private capital going to the Global North, only about
20 percent in the Global South. So, how do we change that dynamic? And that's what Alterra is about.
What we're doing is taking a model that the UAE has pioneered, taking public money, development finance, marrying it with project developers and
commercial capital and delivering projects in the Global South that we hope can then break down some of these perceived risk barriers and help us to
deploy more capital. We can build confidence if we could -- we will see more investors going to the Global South. And I think that that's what's
really key, is because developing countries these days, they don't want more processional capital. What they want is to grow their economy.
CHATTERLEY: Right.
AL SUWAIDI: They want to improve the livelihoods of their citizens, create jobs, and that's what we need to be focused on. How are we helping them to
improve their economies, grow their economies, electrify, develop industry and do it in a sustainable and green way, and that's what Alterra is about.
CHATTERLEY: One of the challenges and one of your focuses at COP28 was this agreement to at least make an effort to reduce fossil fuels. What more
can you do on this point?
AL SUWAIDI: Julia, there's so much more that we can do. Isn't it crazy that it took us 28 COPs to have a reference to fossil fuels?
CHATTERLEY: Yes.
AL SUWAIDI: And I think that what's amazing is that a fossil fuel producing country was the one that was able to deliver it. We were able to
deliver it because we understood the industry. Because we were practical about it. Because we were doing exactly what you said, we were addressing
the needs and the concerns of those who want to invest in this area. We were able to bring the oil and gas industry into the tent to say how they
could help us by recognizing that they are -- they have expertise, they have skills, and they have a business and they have a responsibility to
their shareholders.
CHATTERLEY: They have to be part of the conversation. I think you proved that certainly at COP28. Should the subsidies to the industry though stop?
AL SUWAIDI: I think we need to work across the policy landscape. So, we need to work on subsidies. We need to look at different countries,
investment environments. Every country should have the thought that they need to put in place the right investment environment that will attract
that private sector capital and grow those green industries that we want to see them growing.
So, the key is that, like we said, and as you said, we need to go much further. We need all of the above. And I think that one has characterized
the climate conversation in the past, was rather than saying, we welcome all solutions and we embrace them and we're going to empower people to
deliver the solutions that work for them in their situation, we've always talked about the things that we can't do and what we should exclude and
what we shouldn't include.
And I think that what's changed with COP28 and what we've certainly been saying is let's change the narrative. Let's focus on how we can deliver the
outcomes that we want to see and get us back on track to those goals that we want to achieve those Paris goals of 1.5 degrees.
CHATTERLEY: So, we're going to have them?
AL SUWAIDI: We should hit them. We have to hit them.
CHATTERLEY: We'll have another conversation when you tell me we will hit them.
AL SUWAIDI: We will hit them.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[18:40:00]
CHATTERLEY: But we like action on this show. All right. Coming up after the break, speaking of action, a formidable force pushing world leaders to
take action on A.I. And someone who also impressed me at CNN's Big Bets for Climate Action event in New York last week, Sneha Revanur, founder of
Encode Justice, tells us why young people must be part of these kind of conversations. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." This week, insiders at OpenAI, the company behind ChatGPT, voiced real concerns about where the technology
is heading in an open letter, they urged the artificial intelligence industry to be more transparent about inherent risks and to protect
whistleblowers who dare to speak up against it.
It comes as companies race to adopt generative A.I. tools. And while we all consumers, governments, and regulators grapple to define responsible use.
My next guest represents a new generation of users, developers, innovators and inheritors of the world we create. And they're also super digitally
savvy and their voices should be heard.
The Encode Justice movement includes 1,000 young people in over 30 different nations. Founded by Sneha Revanur, they formulated an A.I. 2030
plan. So, this is the steps they want business leaders and others to take over the next six years. And that includes things like this, limiting the
spread of deep fakes, labeling A.I. content, protecting data from being used to train A.I. models where necessary, and funding A.I. literacy
education.
Now, Sneha was also crowned by Politico as the Greta Thunberg of AI. And she joins me now. Now, that is a title Sneha, how do you feel about that?
SNEHA REVANUR, FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT ENCODE JUSTICE: Wow. Well, hello, Julia. It's so great to see you again. We were just together in New York a
couple of days ago for the Big Bets for Climate Action event. So, obviously, long time no see.
But yes, I mean, it's quite the title, obviously very flattered by the comparison to Greta. I think she has done so much for youth activism. At
the same time, we obviously are in different issue streams, working on different causes, and I think that there is hopefully room in public
consciousness for multiple young women working on important issues.
So, I'd say we each stand on our own, but of course, always inspired by her and very flattered by the comparison.
CHATTERLEY: You see, I love that answer. Explain Encode Justice, because I think even just in one answer, you've realized and let our audience realize
one, why you're on the show. But two, I think that the power of your voice to push for change.
[18:45:00]
Encode Justice began in 2020. You were rallying young people in your home state of California against what was known as Proposition 25. So, this was
a ballot measure that was looking to replace cash bail with a risk-based algorithm snare (ph). And immediately for you, alarm bells went off.
REVANUR: Yes, they did. A couple of years prior to that, I actually came across an investigation that found that pretty similar algorithms can be
super racially biased, and there were already use cases in counties in Florida, for example, where there were error rates that were twice as high
for black defendants.
And so, when I saw that technology was going to be implemented all across my home state of California, I wanted to obviously get involved and began
campaigning against the ballot measure by rallying my peers. And together, we you know, created informational content and hosted town halls and
personally called voters and really partnered with community organizations all across California.
That was our first foray into advocacy. That was quite frankly, my first foray into advocacy. I didn't know how all the ropes worked up until that
point. I was kind of just learning as I went along and we were actually successful. We defeated the ballot measure by around a 13 percent margin.
At that point, I realized, you know, we have this incredible community of young people who are fired up about A.I. And they're coming from all over
the world, not just California. And there are so many more issues for us to take aim at, even beyond the scope of California or beyond the scope of
criminal justice.
And so, at that point, we became and Encode Justice. And we've been focusing on all sorts of challenges that are raised in the age of A.I. ever
since then, ranging from disinformation to labor displacement, to bias surveillance, to potential catastrophic risk from these technologies. So,
movement is obviously only grown and it's been an honor to see just how much it's evolved.
CHATTERLEY: I mean, that progress got you invited to a roundtable discussion by the vice president of the United States. You were at the
World Economic Forum in Davos as well. They, you told me -- and I think this is key, you spoke to a lot of A.I. experts around the world, and
that's what helped you hone this plan for 2030.
Talk to me about this and what this represents. And you've also had some incredibly powerful signatories that have also backed this and said, yes,
this is what we need to be following.
REVANUR: Yes, that's a great segue. So, actually, coming out of my experience attending the World Economic Forum in Davos, obviously, one of
the most elite global convenings, if not the most elite global convening, it was incredible opportunity. And they have the access to top A.I. experts
and people who are really shaping this dialogue.
And while I was there, I spoke to people like Stuart Russell, who is the author of the world's leading A.I. textbook and one of the top academics in
the space, and really had the chance to speak to them and figure out, you know, where their attention is lying and what policy priorities should be
centering.
At that point, I realized there is this growing division between experts who are thinking about the near-term challenges posed by A.I., like bias,
and the longer-term, potentially catastrophic, but still unrealized potential of this technology. And that divide, in my opinion, is frankly
counterproductive and does not need to exist.
And so, my intuition there was, we should have a youth authored agenda that is able to obviously outline a set of our core policy priorities, but also
help bridge the divide between experts on both sides of this conversation and also rally support from the people who hold power influence in our
world.
And so, at that point, we began this project, devising 22 policy recommendations across five main core areas. And we developed the sketch
for A.I. 2030, which is our generation's platform for global A.I. action by the year 2030.
And as you mentioned, Julia, we have been honored to receive support from some super high-profile people that I never imagined would sign on or even
take a look at the things I was sending them. But we have signed on to the people like Yoshua Bengio, who is considered the godfather of A.I. and is
the most cited computer scientists in the world. People like Mary Robinson, the former president of Ireland and former U.N. high commissioner for human
rights. The actor Joseph Gordon-Levitt. I'm really excited about that because I'm a huge fan. People like Audrey Tang, former minister of Taiwan.
So, the list just goes on and on. And it's really, really exciting to see that we --
CHATTERLEY: My audience now has a really good sense of why you're so influential because you're enthusiastic, but you're also quite powerful
too. Just reminds my audience of how old you are, by the way, if you don't mind me asking.
REVANUR: I'm 19 years old. I'm 19.
CHATTERLEY: Nineteen. Yes. OK. What sort of pushback and what's the most difficult part of this being? Because you called the people at Davos elite,
and they are, but they can also be arrogant. And a lot of people don't want to listen to young people. They're like, hey, come back in a couple of
decades when you have a bit more life experience.
Sneha, why is it so important, whether it's climate or whether it's A.I. to have young people's views on how we craft regulation for good and for bad
in a situation like this and this kind of technology?
[18:50:00]
REVANUR: Yes, in so many ways, convenings like Davos are just a microcosm of how the world works at large. And I definitely encountered this slight
culture of almost apprehension when I was there. People just sort of dismissing the work that I was doing, you know, in the sense that this is
cute, this is sweet, but you've got to -- you know, get some more years of experience on you before you actually get involved in these serious
conversations. Obviously, that wasn't the case.
Universally, I did have some great dialogue with people I really respect, but I've encountered that kind of, I think, bias and that kind of
dismissiveness overall in the work that I do. I think also it's not just because of age, but there are so many people in this space that are deeply
tied to commercial interest and just want to keep raising to deploy these increasingly powerful models.
You know, we're seeing the power to really change our shared future concentrated in the hands of a couple of CEOs right now. And these people
are earning tons of profits along the way. I think there were also people out there who believe that technology is going to usher in this utopian
future. And it's, you know, foolish to try to implement any safeguards because then we're just standing in the way of that progress.
You know, in my opinion, I totally agree that, you know, A.I. can be a force for so much good in our world. And I'm really excited about those
uses, but we need to make sure we're doing it safely and we're doing it carefully. And I hear that right now we don't have that culture of safety
in place at the top A.I. labs in the open letter from those insiders at OpenAI, you (INAUDIBLE) in those other top labs I think it really
highlights that.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, but you're certainly helping to make a difference. And I can tell you, my friend, being underestimated can be quite powerful too.
You're not just cute and sweet. We'll talk again soon. Thank you for your time today. The founder and president of Encode Justice there. We'll be
back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: We are commemorating a major anniversary in Europe. 80 years ago, Allied troops were preparing for the largest seaborne invasion in
history. Operation Overlord launched on June 6, 1944 and tens of thousands of troops landed on the beaches in Normandy. In just hours from now, World
War II veterans and global leaders will attend Thursday's memorials. Melissa Bell has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: World leaders have been gathering here in Normandy to mark the 80th anniversary of D-Day.
That's to be marked by the heads of state of not just the United Kingdom, France, and the United States. Joe Biden expected to deliver his speech at
the cemetery where so many American servicemen are buried.
But also, it'll be in the presence of President Zelenskyy, the Ukrainian president. A reminder of what we expect to hear from the American president
over the course of the next couple of days, an important historical line being drawn between events here on the beaches of Normandy 80 years ago
through the Cold War into what's now being done in and for Ukraine.
[18:55:00]
It isn't just the heads of state that are here, though. So many people have turned up with their vehicles, World War II vehicles, that helped carry the
weapons and the equipment, the men that allowed Operation Overlord to be the success that it was, the amphibious vehicles, as well, an important
reminder of the huge logistical operation, hugely ambitious as well, that was to mark the very beginning of the liberation, not just of France, but
of Europe.
Melissa Bell, CNN, Normandy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: Now, if you're in Great Britain and you pull some cash out of the ATM, you might notice something's changing because banknotes featuring
a portrait of King Charles are now entering circulation. They range from 5 to 50 pounds. The Bank of England says notes featuring Queen Elizabeth will
remain legal tender and circulate alongside her sons.
And finally, on "First Move," another anniversary, this time from the Chatterley family. Today is my parents 53rd wedding anniversary, and I just
wanted to say congratulations to them and a huge thank you for showing everyone around you just how amazing marriage and friendship can be, and
how important it is to find a partner in crime in life and to spend your life laughing above everything. I love you both very much. Huge
congratulations. And that's a picture of them on their wedding day.
And that just about wraps up the show. Thank you for joining us. I'll see you tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
END
