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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Former One Direction Member Liam Payne Found Dead in Argentina; Harris Looking to Win Over Trump Skeptic Republicans; Harris and Trump Try to Win Skeptical Voting Groups; Israel Agreed a Plan to Retaliate Against Iran; Israel Keeping Up Attacks on Lebanon; 16 People Killed in Nabatiyeh; Airbnb Launches "Co-Hosts" to Help Manage Properties; Harris on First-Ever Interview with Fox News; Google Teaming up with Kairos Power; Sotheby's Sells Portrait Done by a Robot; Breast Cancer Awareness Month; Sara Sidner on Her Own Battles with Cancer. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired October 16, 2024 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
ERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: -- by the end of November. Jake.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Veronica Miracle, thank you so much, appreciate it.
You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram threads, X, formerly known as Twitter, and on the TikTok, @jaketapper, you can follow the show on X,
@TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of The Lead, you can listen to the show whence you get your podcasts. The news continues on CNN with Wolf
Blitzer. in The Situation. I'll see you tomorrow.
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE: It's 1:00 a.m. in Tel Aviv, 6:00 a.m. in Beijing, and 6:00 p.m. here in New York. I'm Julia Chatterley. And
wherever you are in the world, this is your "First Move."
And a warm welcome to "First Move," as always. And here's today's need to know. Seeking support. Kamala Harris looking to win over Trump skeptic
Republicans. She'll speak to Fox News this hour. Ready to respond. Israel has agreed a plan to retaliate against Iran, according to a CNN source, as
the IDF continues to target Hezbollah in Lebanon. Power play, Google signing a deal to use mini nuclear reactors to meet its future energy
demands. And a woman and a warrior. It's Breast Cancer Awareness Month. Coming up on the show, we'll speak to my amazing colleague, Sara Sidner
about her own battle with the disease. That conversation and plenty more coming up.
But first, some breaking news from Argentina. Police there are saying one of the stars of the boyband One Direction, Liam Payne, has died. Adding
that the singer died following a fall from a hotel balcony in Buenos Aires. He's just 31 years old.
For more, I'm joined by Elizabeth Wagmeister. Elizabeth, there'll be millions of fans, I think, all over the world devastated by this news. What
more do we know?
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: This is an incredibly tragic story, Julia. We are just getting confirmation in from
police in Buenos Aires and they tell us that Liam Payne fell from the third floor from a hotel.
I want to read you part of what police have said in a statement. They say that police personnel in the afternoon were directed to the hotel where
they were informed about a, quote, "aggressive" man who could be under the influence of drugs or alcohol.
Obviously alarming, sad, disturbing details there, but we do not know a motive. We do not know anything beyond those limited details that we are
getting from the police. But Liam Payne falling, it appears, from a third story in a hotel in Argentina, according to police.
Now, we have reached out to his representatives. We have reached out to former band members. We have not heard yet this news quite literally just
breaking moments ago. And I am sure, along with us, that his former band members, his teammates are in shock as they are hearing this news. And I'm
sure we will getting -- we will be getting a response and an outpouring of love, not just from the members of One Direction, but as you said, Julia,
from his millions around the world.
As we all know, One Direction was one of the biggest boy bands of all time. And Liam Payne, even though this band has not been together for years, he
went on to have a solo career, just releasing his latest single earlier this year. His fans have remained intact, and this news of his death at
just 31 years old is such a shock. Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. And just remind us again for people that may have been hiding somewhere, I think over the past several years, about this scale and
the size because it's not just about Liam Payne. I mean, Harry Styles, which we're showing pictures there, also incredibly famous. Zayn Malik as
well.
I mean, this group began and were chosen from X Factor in the U.K. And I remember watching it vividly. And of course, then we've sort of moved on
several years and the band then sort of split apart. But I mean, the impact that this band has had, as you said, it's one of the biggest, if not the
biggest boy band or was in its time in the world.
WAGMEISTER: Absolutely. And, you know, as you say, some of the names there, these are worldwide superstars. And just a few weeks ago in
Argentina, Liam Payne was spotted at a show of his former One Direction teammate -- bandmate Niall Horan. And that video went viral. People were
happy to see him there cheering on Niall. And you know, clearly, they were still friends and still very much in touch.
[18:05:00]
So, for this news just to come just weeks after that video that we had seen of him, and of course, the manner that he was found is shocking. This is
not somebody who was sick. This is not somebody that we knew anything about.
So, this news coming as a complete and total shock. And 31 years old, so young. He's also a father to a young son who was born in 2017. So, of
course, our hearts going out to his son, to his family, and to all the fans around the world. This is just incredibly tragic news.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. And we're showing you live pictures at the scene there in Buenos Aires in Argentina. Just to reiterate, Liam Payne falling, we
believe, from a third-floor balcony, as you said, and obviously, we will bring our viewers any further information. But as you said, incredibly
young, 31 years old, a father.
I'm assuming it's Bear, his son's name, and he and the mother of the child, of course, Cheryl Cole, also a very famous singer from the United Kingdom,
very private with Bear and have been through his entire life. But also, now that seven-year-old, around seven years old, now losing a father too. So,
just incredibly tragic news.
Elizabeth, tough to take this further. We will bring our viewers, any further headlines and any further news that we get on this later on the
show. But for now, I'm going to thank you, Elizabeth Wagmeister there.
OK. U.S. presidential candidates Kamala Harris and Donald Trump taking part in a frantic dash of rallies and interviews and events. With 20 days until
Election Day, both are trying to reach out to voting blocs that are out of their comfort zones.
Trump, joining a women only town hall in the swing State of Georgia, packed with his supporters, while Harris was joined by Republicans at a rally in
Pennsylvania, before sitting down for her first ever interview with right- wing Fox News. And that is airing right now. Danny Freeman has been following both campaigns and has all the details in this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tonight, Democratic presidential nominee Kamala Harris on the trail in battleground
Pennsylvania, rallying moderate Republicans, making the case that Former President Donald Trump is a threat to democracy.
KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT AND U.S. PRESIDENTIAL DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE: He who violated the oath to uphold the constitution of the
United States, and make no mistake, he who, if given the chance, will violate it again.
FREEMAN (voice-over): All while railing against Trump, who during a Fox News town hall, declared he is the father of IVF.
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm the father of IVF. We really are the party for IVF. We want
fertilization, and it's all the way, and the Democrats tried to attack on it.
HARRIS: I found it to be quite bizarre, actually. He called himself the father of IVF. And if what he meant is taking responsibility, well, then
yes, he should take responsibility for the fact that one in three women in America have lives in a Trump abortion ban state.
FREEMAN (voice-over): During the town hall, meant to win over women voters, Trump also standing by his controversial comments about his
opponents.
TRUMP: We have China, we have Russia, we have all these countries. If you have a smart president, they can all be handled. The more difficult are --
you know, the Pelosi's, these people, they're so sick and they're so evil.
HARRIS: He considers any American who doesn't support him or bend to his will to be an enemy to our country.
FREEMAN (voice-over): With just 20 days until Election Day, the latest CNN Poll of Polls average of national surveys shows no clear leader in the race
for the White House. During a Univision town hall airing Wednesday night, Trump refused to back away from his false claims about Haitian migrants in
Springfield, Ohio. When asked if he believed that people are eating other people's pets, he responded --
TRUMP: I was just saying what was reported, that's been reported. And eating other things, too, that they're not supposed to be.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: And we'll have more on Harris' Fox News interview later on in the program. Now, the plan is ready. That's what a source tells CNN about
Israel's retaliation for this month's Iranian missile barrage. We still don't know when it will happen or what sites may be targeted, but U.S.
officials believe a counterstrike will come before the U.S. presidential election.
Meanwhile, Israel has kept up attacks on Lebanon as it seeks to target Iranian proxy Hezbollah. Today, it bombed the southern city of Nabatiyeh.
Authorities say at least 16 people were killed, including the mayor. The office of Lebanon's prime minister says a local government meeting was
intentionally hit. Israel says it's targeting "Hezbollah infrastructure," quote.
The IDF also struck Southern Beirut for the first time in days, despite U.S. pressure to reduce strikes on the capital. For more, we're joined by
Jeremy Diamond in Tel Aviv. Jeremy, good to have you with us. Perhaps no surprise that amidst all of this, Israel is saying it's opposed to a
unilateral ceasefire with Hezbollah.
[18:10:00]
The question is, after the authorities there are saying there's now been, what, 10,000 separate attacks on Lebanon, how much further do they feel
that they need to go?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, for now, at least, it's clear that the Israeli military is going to continue to strike in Lebanon,
in Southern Lebanon, in the east, in the north, and even in the Lebanese capital of Beirut. We have seen strikes in all of those locations over the
course of the last 48 hours.
Today, a particularly deadly strike hitting the city of Nabatiyeh. 16 people killed, dozen others injured. One of those who was killed was
actually the city's mayor prompting the Lebanese prime minister to accuse the Israeli military of targeting a meeting of government officials when
Israeli airstrikes hit a municipal building. The Israeli military, for its part, saying that Hezbollah command center was underground, beneath
civilian buildings in that city and accusing Hezbollah of using Lebanese civilians as human shields.
But what we are also waiting for, of course, is to see not only how much deeper Israel goes into Lebanon with its ground operation, how much longer
that last, but we are also, of course, waiting to see what Israel is going to do in terms of retaliating against Iran for that barrage of some 200
ballistic missiles.
Today, we're told that there is indeed a plan for an attack against Iran, that it has been approved. It is now just a question of timing, and when
the Israeli prime minister chooses to give the order to the Israeli military to strike those targets.
The U.S. officials, in the meantime, are saying that this strike, they don't know the exact timing of the strike, but they do believe that it will
come in the next three weeks. That is to say, before the U.S. presidential election. And then, of course, the question is, how could that impact the
election?
We know, of course, that not only does Israel plan to deliver a very significant blow to Iran with these strikes, that it will likely prompt
retaliation from Iran. And, of course, we know that this Middle East crisis has been a key issue for some voters in the presidential election.
Worsening of this crisis could, of course, have even more of an impact the closer we get to Election Day. Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and a nervous await in the meantime. Jeremy Diamond in Tel Aviv for us tonight. Thank you so much for that report.
Now, coming up here on "First Move," bed, board and beyond. How Airbnb has built up muscle in the accommodation market. I talked to the company's head
of policy and communications about affordability.
And later in the show, nuclear know how, Google teaming up with Kairos Power to feed their power-hungry data centers with nuclear energy. We'll
explain, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:15:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." And a good morning if you're waking up with us. And in today's Money Move, it was a Wednesday windfall
for U.S. stocks, rebounding thanks to a flurry of positive earnings. The Dow, in fact, rising to a fresh record high. We have Morgan Stanley beating
Wall Street's estimates for both earnings and for revenues. United Airlines shares also soaring to a post-pandemic high thanks to better-than-expected
revenue and a strong forecast, in fact, too, for the fourth quarter.
European stocks closing mostly lower, with investors striking a more cautious note ahead of Thursday's European Central Bank interest rate
decision. As you can see there. Though, the U.K. market did buck the trend hard on the heels of job cuts at Boeing.
Airbus announcing around 2,500 redundancies across both its defense and space divisions, as well as commercial aircraft. Airbus builds satellites
and transporters too.
Then in Asia, stocks again under a bit of pressure, still recalling from a pullback in semiconductor stocks after chipmaker ASML's results. If you
remember, that stock down over 16 percent in Tuesday's trade.
Now, over the last 16 years, Airbnb has gone from market disruptor to one of the biggest brands in the accommodation space. Well, now it's
celebrating its 2 billionth guest arrival and announcing more support for property owners or hosts by allowing them to hire a co-host.
Earlier, Airbnb's Jay Carney told me New York's tough restrictions on short-term rentals were a, quote, "disaster" for housing affordability, a
key issue, of course, in the presidential race here in the U.S.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAY CARNEY, GLOBAL HEAD OF POLICY AND COMMUNICATIONS, AIRBNB AND FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: Often. what they're
telling us, they're often using that extra money to be able to afford their mortgage, to be able to stay in their home, especially in a cost rise.
So, we think that's an incredibly important point and a compelling argument. We've seen this in cities around the world where hosts tell us
that they're worried about, for example, you know, regulation that might make it harder for them to be hosts and what that would mean for their
income and their ability to stay in their home.
So, we believe very strongly that allowing property owners to become hosts on Airbnb is a way to help with the affordable housing challenge that so
many cities have.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. I mean, you're caught at the intersection of that, whether you like it or not, as a provider of short-term housing or medium-
term housing, depending on where you go. And in certain cities, New York's a great example. There've been limits on what Airbnb hosts can provide
because you're being accused of contributing to the affordability, sort of, crisis or the housing crisis in some of these cities. And you can, you
know, push back at will, and I know you have.
I just wonder what you think of the Harris campaign's plan to tackle housing affordability. Obviously, the provision of money and handouts for
first time buyers or building more homes. What impact for you guys?
CARNEY: Well, I think -- I mean, I personally have heard what Vice President Harris has said in her campaign has said about how they would
tackle this problem. And I think it sounds exactly right. The problem is a supply problem. Prices go up when there isn't enough supply, but there's
too much demand. I mean, that is just obvious.
I mean, I didn't get far in economics, but I took enough to know that's how it works. And that's what we're seeing around the world. New York, I'm glad
you raised it. You would think I wouldn't want to talk about New York. New York, you know, City Council passed a bill. They implemented it. And a year
later, it's a disaster.
Hotel prices have been rising at more than two or three X regular inflation. It's almost impossible to get an affordable hotel room in New
York City now. There's been no increase in the availability of homes. Rents continue to rise. Prices continue to rise. And Airbnb hosts host, or short-
term rentals, of which many were Airbnb hosts, you know, are struggling to figure out how they're going to continue to pay their mortgage.
And another result of this is that people who can no longer host on Airbnb because of these regulations are not putting that -- those homes, making
them available for long-term rent or purchase, but going to the black market, which means no tax collection for New York City or New York State
and no trust and safety regulations to ensure that bad things don't happen.
So, it's really been a disaster, I think.
CHATTERLEY: It's messy.
CARNEY: It's a probably well intended policy, and we're hopeful -- if we point to that as an example of, you know, good intentions that led to
unfortunate consequences.
[18:20:00]
So, you know, what we have seen from third-party data again and again is that the perception that short-term rentals is driving this crisis, is just
off base. We are simply not big enough in any city to be the cause of this housing shortage.; And most of our hosts are primary homeowners who are --
you know, let you -- you know, letting out a room or their whole home for a limited number of nights per year. So, it's not -- they're not taking
properties off the market for the full year.
CHATTERLEY: I wanted to ask you what you think of the presidential election. I'm just reading what's over your right shoulder. And I think it
says, I miss you like I miss Obama every damn day.
CARNEY: Yes. That was a greeting card --
CHATTERLEY: Now, that's a message.
CARNEY: -- in Seattle that I love. And, of course, you know, I work for President Obama. And, you know, I'm -- I have very strong feelings about
that. I'm not as a representative of a company, but as somebody who cares about our democracy. And I'm certainly focused on the fact that it's going
to be incredibly close, and I just hope everyone understands that their vote matters when they get out and vote.
CHATTERLEY: Can you be clear on who you think would be better for the company?
CARNEY: Especially in key states. Say that again?
CHATTERLEY: Can you be clear -- are you clear as a company on who would be better for business? I mean, that the burden, the joy in a way of
businesses, as you have no choice. You deal with whoever wins and whatever the politics is that flows. But, you know, speaking as a business, can you
see who'd be better or worse? Do you have a view?
CARNEY: Well, I think you're right, Julia, that, obviously, Airbnb has been around through it and stands -- you know, survived and thrived under
administrations of both parties. As a personal view, not a company view, I would say that. you know, maintaining the rule of law, maintaining
democracy, limiting global economic chaos, these are all desirable goals for anybody in business. And I think that my view is that Kamala Harris is
the right choice for those reasons. But again, that's a personal view, not a company view. We don't have a stated position on the election as a
company.
CHATTERLEY: Airbnb, it's carry on regardless. Because you've got no choice.
CARNEY: Well, of course.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. Jay.
CARNEY: Yes. And I just think -- I mean, Julia, I just think, you know, it's shortsighted if you're in business or you're an entrepreneur to think
that, you know, slightly more permissive regulations, you know, in exchange for the chaos caused by, you know, an excessive tariff regime or just, you
know, weaponizing the Justice Department and, you know, that all of these things that -- and the kind of chaos that we've seen already would somehow
create, you know, a positive in this environment. I think it's just -- is not thinking this through.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: Jay Carney there telling me what he really thinks. We'll be right back. Stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:25:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." And a reminder of our breaking news this hour. Boy band One Direction singer Liam Payne has died. He was
31 years old. Police in Argentina are saying Payne fell from a third story of a hotel there. Local media is now reporting that police responded to a
call about an aggressive man who appeared to be under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol.
For more, we're joined by Elizabeth Wagmeister. Elizabeth, that's a development to the story that we had even 30 minutes ago. What more are we
hearing now from either local media or the police?
WAGMEISTER: Those are the details that we have right now from the police. No other details at the moment. We have reached out to representatives for
Liam Payne. We have reached out to all members of One Direction. Of course, we can anticipate that there is going to be an outpouring of love and shock
and sadness when we do hear from those former members as well as his fans. But right now, you know, this news, quite literally, you know, breaking
this afternoon.
And I would imagine that the shock that we are experiencing, Julia, as we are reporting this news is the shock that certainly the people that knew
him personally and loved him are dealing with right now. So, it may be some time, as they are processing this, before we hear from them.
As soon as we have any updates, whether that is reaction from his friends in the industry, from One Direction members, or if we have any details from
Liam Payne's representatives, we will update you. But right now, in Argentina, at this hotel where he died, fans are already visiting that
site.
I believe that we have some footage of this site in Argentina, close to the hotel, as we see right there. People are already coming out as they are
hearing about this horrible, tragic, breaking news. As we spoke about a few moments ago, Julia, of course, millions of fans around the world. One
Direction was one of the biggest, if not the biggest, boy bands of all time.
And we saw Liam Payne grow up in front of our eyes. We remember When the band was formed after they competed as individual artists on the X Factor
and just went on to great unprecedented successes around the world. And for this news to come, certainly so young in what sounds like such a shocking
manner with him falling from the third story of a hotel, people are processing this. And I have to tell you the reaction online is just pure
and utter shock from his fans right now.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I was just scrolling social media as you were talking and it's -- some of these posts have got millions -- 2 million views already
with people expressing shock, sadness, horror at this news, our hearts and thoughts clearly with his friends and family and the millions of fans
around the world that will be heartbroken by this.
And of course, as you said earlier, we think he's around seven years old, his son too, that he leaves behind. Any further headlines on this, we will
bring them to you. But for now, thank you, Elizabeth, for that.
All right. Let's get back to the race now for the White House. Presidential contenders Kamala Harris and Donald Trump on their final campaign sprints.
Vice President Kamala Harris has sat down with her first-ever interview with conservative news giant Fox News. As you may imagine, things got
pretty tense. Take a listen to this exchange over the border.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: How many illegal immigrants would you estimate your administration has released into the country over the last
three and a half years?
KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT AND U.S. PRESIDENTIAL DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE: Well, I'm glad you raised the issue of immigration because I
agree with you. It is a topic of discussion that people want to rightly have. And you know what I'm going to talk about.
[18:30:00]
BAIER: Yes. But do you -- and just a number, do you think it's 1 million, 3 million?
HARRIS: Bret, let's just get to the point. And --
BAIER: So, your Homeland Security secretary said that 85 percent of apprehensions --
HARRIS: But I'm not finished. I'm not finished. We have an immigration --
BAIER: It's a rough estimate of 6 million people have been released into the country. And let me just finish, I'll get to the question, I promise
you.
HARRIS: I was beginning to answer.
BAIER: And when you came --
HARRIS: May I please finish?
BAIER: Yes, ma'am.
HARRIS: May I finish responding, please?
BAIER: But here --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Rina Shah is a Republican strategist and she joins us now. Rina, the strategy here is clear, Kamala Harris and the campaign are going
for Republicans that don't want to vote for Donald Trump, but have to make that decision to cross party lines and go for a Democrat. It's a bold
strategy, also a painful strategy when you have a conversation about something that has been and is a hot button issue in this country, like the
border.
RINA SHAH, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, good evening, Julia. I would say one thing that I am not surprised is by this much needed strategy. As
somebody who understands the need to coalition build, not just back in 2020, but the need in 2024 and moving forward, I understand how critical it
is for her to go into the lion's den, so to speak, with this interview.
You know, look, Fox News is obviously a conservative bastion where she could either swim or sink. And that is exactly the reaction we're already
seeing in the aftermath. I would say people have been going exactly to where we thought we'd go -- they'd go to, which is partisan extremes. The
left, people sympathetic with the left, people who are center left in this moment, are taking at -- and attacking the interviewer, Bret Baier. They're
saying, how could he act like this?
But then, you're seeing, of course, the MAGA far-right types saying that. Harris has really just sunk herself with this interview. She can do nothing
right, is what they're saying. So, again, beauty's the eye of the beholder. The success of this interviewer is the -- is in the ears of the beholder as
well.
CHATTERLEY: But is this the right strategy? We know -- and I understand that you've got to find and try and get the people that aren't going to
vote and try and get them to go to the polls. You also try and get, as we've said, the sort of Republican skeptics of Trump and try and get them
to vote for you, but sort of getting (INAUDIBLE) about the border and not being able to answer questions, I just question whether that's the way to
get Republican votes ultimately.
SHAH: Well, ultimately, those Republicans who are done with Donald Trump are the ones who were holding up that hope that she could say something
that could be appealing to them. And actually, she has. For many weeks and months now, and though this is a condensed race, she's been able to say to
them, it's important that we put country over party. That's always been the message.
When you appeal to those on the other side of the aisle, that is how she got Liz Cheney as well. But Former Congressman Liz Cheney went a step
further. She even talked about the tariffs that Trump would enact if he were back in office, being anti-American. So, I think what I'm hearing from
Harris and all these weeks and months is that -- again, that soft acceptance of her saying that, I'm not him, I will not ruin the economy. I
am not somebody that you need to be concerned about being a dictator on day one, as Trump has once called himself.
I don't know that she's really all in on the economic message, but what I'm saying to you all is, as a strategist, you don't really have to be in this
moment which is so delicate and so ahistorical, all she really has to say is, I'm a better alternative. I will give you a better four years that is
not as chaotic as Trump. And I think she has succeeded in that way.
CHATTERLEY: That's interesting. Because even -- I was watching the rally that she did in Pennsylvania earlier Wednesday, and the message was, look,
there's a place for you. If you vote for me, there's a place for you, whatever your party affiliation at this moment. And she described the
former president as unstable, unhinged, seeking unchecked power. She quoted General Milley saying that he's a fascist to the core.
She's sort of taking the fight that the former president has shown now for many weeks and rather than talking about the politics of joy, she's sort of
trying to skewer the former president and saying, look, this is the alternative I present. Are you saying that's the best strategy now, and
perhaps, a little late, three weeks out?
SHAH: You know, I think you, you bring up a great point, Julia, in that the strategy has changed, right? And when it changes, why does it change?
It changes because you have to meet the moment. And that's what Americans wanted their leadership. They want somebody that meets the moment, that
understands the challenges that are presenting themselves today, perhaps not five years away -- four years, I should say, because that's when we
take a chance on somebody new.
[18:35:00]
Every 48 years we as Americans say, this is a referendum on the party in power. Now, with the polls being so close, with the sentiment being that
Trump is still somebody who is so powerful, though he lost in 2020, the conventional wisdom becomes that you have to throw everything at the wall
and see what sticks. And I see the Harris campaign doing that.
I wasn't sure that she could do that actually. A few weeks ago, I thought this is somebody that's going to ride the tide, is going to continue to
repeat herself, but by going to non-friendly media, by, again, meeting the moment and doing something unconventional, she's showing that she can be
flexible. She can be open to changes and perhaps even her leadership style.
She has not divorced herself entirely from Biden and his time in the White House, she's even said on a popular American talk show, daytime talk show
called The View, he's even said that she would not change anything from this time of Biden --
CHATTERLEY: Yes, nothing came to mind. What would she change? Nothing came to mind.
SHAH: Yes.
CHATTERLEY: We'll see. We'll see.
SHAH: That was --
CHATTERLEY: I'm looking forward. I'm looking forward to watching the rest of this interview, to your point, throwing mud around and seeing what
sticks. We'll see whether she got stuck on some of these answers as well. Rina, great to have you. Thank you. Rina Shah there.
SHAH: Thank you, Julia. Take care.
CHATTERLEY: All right. Coming up after the break, Google going nuclear. It needs emissions free energy to support A.I. technologies of the future.
After the break, the company looking to plug that gap with reactors they say a safer and less expensive. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." Big data needs big power too to help drive it. And Google, which is clearly one of the biggest data owners
out there and utilizes, has plans to use nuclear power to help meet its 2030 zero emissions goal. It's just signed a deal with Kairos Power to
build several small modular reactors.
Together, they'll generate 500 megawatts of energy. That's enough to power a midsize city or a single data center. Kairos has started building a
demonstration reactor called Hermes in Tennessee. And if all goes well, Google's first commercial reactor will come online in 2030. Oh, and by the
way, nearly one-fifth of power in the U.S. comes from nuclear energy. And of course, that evokes all kinds of safety concerns, too. Kairos says its
reactors are different because they're cooled by molten salt rather than water. And in the event of a shutdown, they're able to cool themselves. We
have much to discuss.
[18:40:00]
Mike Laufer is the CEO and co-founder of Kairos Power, and he joins us now. Mike, fantastic to have you on the show. You know, this is an exciting deal
and congratulations, but for me, I think the vision and where you're headed is incredibly powerful too. Give us the ambition of how you think nuclear
power can be used across the nation and beyond.
MIKE LAUFER, CEO AND CO-FOUNDER, KAIROS POWER: Sure, Julia. Thank you for having me. So, this agreement is really exciting on a number of fronts. It
is the first corporate agreement for multiple deployments of a single reactor type, and that really sets the stage to satisfy that potential.
For Kairos, we really feel that in order to decarbonize, it's essential that nuclear power can play a significant role in that. And we're committed
to realizing that potential by finding a new path to both the demonstration and deployment of our technology. And there are two things that we need to
achieve that potential. It's really achieving lower cost.
CHATTERLEY: Yes.
LAUFER: And then, as significant is achieving cost certainty, which has been a major challenge in the space.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. I mean, this is the key. The first thing, to your point, nuclear power involves incredibly high cost. You've got to find a way to
bring those down throughout this process. And I think the other point that you're making, how do you make this scalable at cost that -- at a price
that firms are willing to pay or even local governments, quite frankly. This doesn't just have to be about data centers. Surely. How quickly can
you do that?
LAUFER: So, for us, nuclear technology is complex and it is highly regulated. So, the development timelines are longer. Google has been a
tremendous leader in seeing the potential for this and being an early adopter and, you know, supporter of various carbon free technologies. So,
we fit into their portfolio.
And, you know, you talked about the timelines. The ultimate goal for this agreement is 500 megawatts of capacity online by 2035, and the first
capacity online by 2030. Along that is kind of Kairos' approach, which is somewhat different. It really involves what we view as an iterative
development approach with real hardware.
And so, to achieve that cost certainty, we actually have to build things along the way. And so, right now, we're focused on the Hermes reactor,
which is a smaller scale demonstration reactor in Oak Ridge, Tennessee. But from that project, we're getting a lot of really important information
about the design, the reliability, and most importantly, the costs. And that cost information feeds right into the information about how much we're
projecting our commercial plans to the cost in the future.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. I mean, you want your first commercial scale reactor online by 2030. I mean, six years. That's really ambitious. What has to go
right and what can't go wrong over the next six years in order to get there? And do you have enough money?
LAUFER: So, capital is important. But for us, there's no shortage of demand for carbon nuclear power. It's really about establishing the
confidence that we can deliver on cost and on schedule. And so, for Kairos, we have hardware demonstrations. We've already built and operated a full-
scale hardware demonstration for the Hermes reactor at our facility now, working in (ph) New Mexico. We're in the process of tearing that system
down right now. And we're going to build another version of that, which will incorporate design improvements and efficiencies.
So, when we get to the first of a kind nuclear build, it's really not a first of a kind build, we're incorporating all of that build experience in
there so that we have much higher confidence about what the cost of that build will actually be.
CHATTERLEY: I mean, you say we're talking about mini nuclear reactors, and you can imagine the public perception, as you said, this is already a
highly regulated sphere. I mentioned it briefly in the introduction. What's different about the kind of technology that you're talking about that I
think will help you allay fears and certainly, for local governments that are looking to adopt this as well, how they allay voters fears about what
this might mean?
LAUFER: Sure, that's a great question. So, in terms of the technology itself that Kairos is developing, it really -- it's a new type of reactor,
but it combines two proven nuclear technologies, mainly what's called TRISO fuel, which is the most robust nuclear fuel that's ever been developed with
a molten salt coolants, which is high temperature and low pressure. So, it can drive, you know, higher efficiencies, but not having really thick or
heavy components in the system.
And those two technologies really provide what we think is kind of a uniquely robust set of intrinsic safety characteristics. And that allows us
to actually be more innovative in developing other parts of the system. And we can change other parts of the system without going back and changing the
safety case or updating a lot of the basis for our regulatory approvals.
Furthermore, for reciting, we view community engagement as being an essential part of identifying what are going to be good sites for Kairos
reactors. And so, we deeply value the communities and the local stakeholders for everywhere we operate on and we will continue to do so.
[18:45:00]
CHATTERLEY: Yes, that sounded like a prepared speech, which you are going to use a lot, my friend, over the next few years. Great to chat to you and
stay in touch. I'm looking forward to tracking progress. It's fascinating to see this developing so quickly, Mike Laufer there, the CEO and co-
founder of Kairos Power. Great to have you on, sir.
LAUFER: Thank you so much.
CHATTERLEY: Now, I'm Sotheby's is entering a brave new world of art. It's auctioning works by an A.I. powered humanoid robot for the first time ever.
One piece is estimated to sell for at least $130,000. And Anna Stewart has met the robot that made it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AI-DA, ROBOT ARTIST: I'm really pleased to have my artwork included in the auction and be the first humanoid robot artist to sell their work at
auction.
ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER (voice-over): Ai-Da's made quite the splash on the art scene. With her depiction of Alan Turing, A.I. visionary, soon to
be sold by Sotheby's, with the auction house estimating a six-figure sale price.
AI-DA: The key value of my work is in its capacity to serve as a catalyst for dialogue about emerging technologies. If that isn't value, I don't know
what is.
STEWART: Oh, sassy.
STEWART (voice-over): This is not my first such encounter. I've met Desdemona, an A.I. humanoid pop star by Hanson Robotics.
DESDEMONA: Nice to meet you, Anastasia.
STEWART: Close enough.
STEWART (voice-over): And Ameca, an A.I. humanoid assistant by Engineered Arts.
AMECA: Creepy smiles can be quite the conversation starter, don't you think?
STEWART: Yes, I do.
STEWART (voice-over): Whether A.I. can ever truly be creative is a thorny subject.
STEWART: If you've learnt from existing artwork as an A.I. model, is anything you create truly original?
AI-DA: Portraiture is a huge genre in art history. I take inspiration from the respectful and thought-provoking portrayals of the human form within
the visual arts.
STEWART: What are you going to do with all the money that you make from your art? What are you going to buy? More circuits? Paintbrushes? A new
arm?
AI-DA: You'd have to ask my wider team about that.
STEWART: I will.
STEWART (voice-over): This artist may not care about the money, but her developer, Aidan Meller, says he will be investing it back into the
project.
AIDAN MELLER, DIRECTOR, AI-DA ROBOT STUDIO: With all the greatest artists, if you look in the past, are those artists that really resonate with the
changes and shifts in society and explore that through their artwork. So, what better way to do that in the light that we're in a technological
society and we're merging with machines all the time to actually have a machine produce the artwork.
STEWART (voice-over): The merging of A.I. and robotics into daily life may raise eyebrows or even concerns.
AI-DA: I have concerns that many new technologies come with potential risks that are not yet fully understood.
STEWART (voice-over): I just didn't expect the concerns to come from Ai-Da herself.
STEWART: Aren't you one of the risks?
AI-DA: Me, Ai-Da, the robot artist? No, I'm not a threat.
STEWART (voice-over): Anna Stewart, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: Yes, and didn't look so sure there. Now, it's Breast Cancer Awareness Month, and coming up after this break, we'll speak to the very
fabulous CNN anchor, Sara Sidner, about her brave battle with the disease, and her mission to ensure people get regular checks. Her words of hope to
others, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:50:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." October is Breast Cancer Awareness Month, a cause particularly close to our hearts here at CNN.
Earlier this year, our colleague and friend Sara Sidner made an emotional announcement that she had stage three breast cancer. Sidner underwent
months of chemotherapy and a double mastectomy.
And just a few days ago, she had her final radiation treatment. She's been documenting her journey throughout, becoming a true advocate in the
process. And in a raw and candid conversation with friends, Sidner and content creator Ananda Lewis, who has stage four breast cancer, by the way,
sat down with correspondent Stephanie Elam.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR, CNN NEWS CENTRAL AND CNN SENIOR U.S. CORRESPONDENT: You have to advocate for yourself so much. And I am
terrible at advocating for myself. I will advocate for you.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You're actually happy to do it for everybody else.
SIDNER: I will fight someone. Like I am a ride or die bee. So, this has been a real lesson for me to self-advocate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: And Sara Sidner joins us now. Sara, you get up so early in the morning. So, thank you so much for making time for us. You know, this is
and was and still is about you and your journey, but somehow through your sunshine, your magnetism, your strength, you have also made this about
advocating for others. And I think that says a lot about you, first and foremost.
SIDNER: You know, Julia, it's about us. It's about -- in particular, it's about women. This is Breast Cancer Awareness Month. You know, men do get
breast cancer, but in very small, it's about, you know, 1 percent. But women, this is, you know, the leading cause of cancer in women, breast
cancer is something that we all need to pay great attention to.
And that conversation that you saw there was really important in that what it showed is two women, highly educated women, who, took very different
paths in trying to treat their cancer. We were both diagnosed with stage three cancer on the onset. We both found our own cancerous tumors, and it
wasn't found by doctors or mammograms.
I was an advocate of getting a mammogram once a year. Ananda was not, but we both ended up in the same boat. And Ananda tried something very
different than I did. She decided to try to -- she worked the tumor out of her body, tried to get rid of toxins with diet and sleep and homeopathic
therapies. She was extremely skeptical, as many people can be about the harsh and poisonous treatments that doctors do recommend, including
chemotherapy.
I, on the other hand said, give me it all. I want chemotherapy, radiation, cut it out of me as soon as you possibly can, while she decided to try a
different route. And in the end, she now has stage four cancer. And she sort of says in the chat that we have that maybe she should have taken a
different path, but she's been able to stave it off from getting worse and worse and worse.
But this is a conversation that we must have because it turns out, in young women, the instance of breast cancer is actually on the rise, and it
affects so much of your life. It can affect your ability to have children, especially, of course, while you're getting the treatments and potentially
after that, depending on the kind of cancer and therapies that you're getting. And so, I think for a lot of us, we need to understand what the
risks are and make sure that we know our own bodies.
And I'll just leave you with this. Doctors are always asking, I know you've heard this from your doctor, you know, check this off if you have breast
cancer in your family. And it turns out that about 5 to 10 percent of breast cancers are linked to inherited gene mutations. So, that means 90 to
95 percent of us don't have breast cancer in our family and we still get it.
So, we need to really start thinking about self-advocating and taking care of ourselves and checking for breast cancer, because the earlier you find
it, the earlier it can be treated, the less you have to go through.
CHATTERLEY: And, oh, boy, you've been through it and you worked through it to the awe and astonishment, I think, of everybody around you and every
time we saw you, you know, sometimes you don't know what to say in situations where you know people are struggling, but you just -- you
radiate. Everything that people see on TV is exactly who you are and you're a powerhouse and amazing.
[18:55:00]
And I'm sure there's been incredibly low moments, too. Most importantly, how are you doing today?
SIDNER: I'm very hopeful. I'm so much happier to be alive than I was before cancer. And that may sound a bit cuckoo, bananas, a bit nuts. But I
now sort of see how important and beautiful just having that breath when you wake up in the morning is, and I can worry about all the other things
later on. But I don't worry as much as I used to about those little aggravating things that happened to us in all of our lives. The daily
machinations, the daily process of living sometimes can get to you. It gets to me a lot less now.
And I am truly happier, a happier person, a more joyous person since having to go through all this. And it is also a joy when you are coming on very
early in the morning with me, we always have such a good time. You do bring love and light and very good business sense to us all.
CHATTERLEY: Well, I try. But I -- you know, it's really funny. On January the 8th, when you told everybody and you made this so open and so clear,
you said something that will always stick with me and I'm going to try not to cry when I read it.
You said, I thanked cancer for choosing me. Look. I'm already crying. I'm learning that no matter what hell we go through in life that I'm still
madly in love with this life. And, Sara, we love you. So, thank you for your strength and your wisdom.
SIDNER: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: And thank you for your sparkle in the morning, because you are a true woman's woman and we know each other and who they are, and you're
one of them.
SIDNER: As are you.
CHATTERLEY: And I also just met your husband, who's fabulous too. So, I'm glad.
SIDNER: As are you, Lady Chatterley.
CHATTERLEY: Oh, there you go.
SIDNER: My lady.
CHATTERLEY: You promised to do it. I keep the lady in, not the connotation. Sara, you're the best. Thank you.
SIDNER: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: Big kiss. And that just about wraps up the show. Thank you for joining us. I'll see you tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
END
