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First Move with Julia Chatterley
Israeli Cabinet Approves Ceasefire Deal in Lebanon; Biden Says Ceasefire a Crucial Step to Ending War in Middle East; Trump to Hike Tariffs on Mexico, Canada, and China; Russia Launching 188 Drones; Thanksgiving Feast to be Cheaper This Year; Protests for Former Prime Minister Imran Khan's Release; Artificial Intelligence Could Debunk Conspiracy Theories; Swift's Eras Tour Nears End in Vancouver; New Book Reveals Swift's Success. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired November 26, 2024 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN ANCHOR, FIRST MOVE: It's 1:00 a.m. in Beirut, 7:00 a.m. in Beijing, and 6:00 p. m. here in New York. I'm Julia Chatterley. And
wherever you are in the world, this is your "First Move."
And a warm welcome to "First Move." And here's today's need to know. Peace is possible. President Biden says Tuesday ceasefire agreement between
Israel and Hezbollah is a crucial step to ending war in the Middle East. Trade turmoil. Mexico's president says tariffs won't solve the issue of
migration, while the Chinese say no one wins in a trade war. Talking Turkey. The CEO of retailer Butterball talks price pressures and cooking
tips ahead of Thanksgiving. And Swift success. We speak to the author of a new book comparing Taylor's impact and innovation to pop legends like David
Bowie and The Beatles. That conversation and plenty more coming up.
But first, Israel's security cabinet approving a ceasefire deal in Lebanon. President Joe Biden confirming it will begin just hours from now at 9:00
p.m. Eastern time, that's 4:00 a.m. local time. It follows more than a year of hostilities between Israel and the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah.
According to President Biden, Israel will gradually "withdraw," quote, its forces and civilians from Southern Lebanon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Over the next 60 days, the Lebanese army and state security forces will deploy and take control of their own territory
once again. Hezbollah terrorist infrastructure in Southern Lebanon will not be allowed to be rebuilt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: The U.S. President also said Israel retains the right to self- defense if Hezbollah breaks the deal. Nic Robertson has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): In the hours before agreeing to a ceasefire, Israeli warplanes pounding the
Lebanese capital. Even areas in the heart of Beirut, previously off limits. And Hezbollah too, down to the very last minute, launching rocket salvos
into Israel. Announcing the ceasefire, Israel's Prime Minister claiming victory.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): We destroyed Nasrallah, the rest of the senior personnel, it's missiles and
rockets, thousands of terrorists and destroyed the underground infrastructure of terror that's been built there for years.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): And vowing to strike if Hezbollah breaks the agreement.
NETANYAHU (through translator): If Hezbollah will rearm itself, we will attack. If he'll fire missiles, if it puts tracks with missiles, we will
attack.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): A 60-day ceasefire expected to begin almost immediately. Hezbollah fighters to pull back 30 miles north of the Israeli
border with IDF troops returning inside Israel and the Lebanese army and the U.N. move in to fill the vacuum. Few other details available. Netanyahu
saying time to shift focus and resupply.
NETANYAHU (through translator): So, why doing ceasefire now? There are three main reasons. First, focusing on the Iranian threat. Two, refreshing
the military forces and our equipment. And I'm telling you, as it's not a secret, there's been delays in bringing more weapons and arms. And this
delay will finish soon. We will have advanced weaponry that will give us more power to finish our goals. And the third reason for ceasefire,
detaching the front of the war from Hamas.
[18:05:00]
ROBERTSON (voice-over): More than 3,000 Lebanese civilians killed. More than 13,000 injured. 47 Israeli civilians and 31 Israeli security forces
killed inside Israel. And 46 Israeli troops killed in Lebanon.
For now, a low-grade war begun by Hezbollah, backing Hamas' brutal October 7th attack last year, that two months ago triggered Israel's full throttle
response, decimating the Iranian proxy, killing its charismatic leader, Hassan Nasrallah and many others is over.
Bittersweet for the Israeli families who will soon be able to return to their homes near the border. Many fear Hezbollah will be back.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: Joining us now, Ian Bremmer, president of Eurasia Group and GZERO Media. He's also the author of "The Power of Crisis: How Three
Threats and Our Response Will Change the World." Ian, great to have you on the show.
This ceasefire has been months in the making, and as Netanyahu pointed out, there's some part of it was delinking a ceasefire in Lebanon from a de-
ceasefire in Gaza. What do you make of his reasoning for why this happened and why now?
IAN BREMMER, PRESIDENT, EURASIA GROUP AND GZERO MEDIA AND AUTHOR, "THE POWER OF CRISIS": The delinking was with the U.S. election. It had to
happen after the election because he didn't want to give a win to Biden- Harris, and he hasn't. But beyond that, it is a very positive development in a war that has not had that many positive developments over the last
year. This is an end to the war and it allows Israeli citizens over 60,000 to return to their homes and schools, allows over a million Lebanese that
have been displaced by the war and over 100,000 that have been evacuated from the south of the country to go back to their homes. And the Israelis
are not going to be interested in restarting the war if that means that they're going to have to evacuate those citizens again.
So, there's stickiness to this, Julia. It is actually reasonably likely that now that a ceasefire has been agreed, that we're not going to see a
continued war in Lebanon against Hezbollah. And the biggest give here, it's a big win for the Israelis militarily, and it's a win for Prime Minister
Netanyahu. But it does show that he is willing, having decapitated Hezbollah's leadership, having significantly degraded their military and
communications capabilities, that he is not trying to destroy Hezbollah the way he has tried to destroy Hamas militarily, and that is something that
had not been a presumption. A lot of Israeli generals wanted to keep going.
And so, this is going to end up -- you know, it will be -- it'll be a useful thing in stopping all the bloodshed for, you know, sort of hundreds
and hundreds of thousands of innocents that have been caught up in all of this.
CHATTERLEY: And you could argue this is a compromise on Israel's part, to your point, because Hezbollah will survive this. They can rebuild. And I
guess the Iranians would like that, too. They could have continued to push on and try and destroy them further. Tie this to the next administration as
well, because for now, at least, and the hope is that this will continue, the ceasefire lasts for 90 days. It takes us into the second iteration of
President Trump.
Clearly, Netanyahu also believes there's an advantage here in some way for clearing the air for Trump. He didn't want to give advantage to Biden. But
what does this now mean for the situation in Gaza and for the fight against Hamas, and as Netanyahu pointed out, Iran too, and the focus there?
BREMMER: Well, Trump has said that he wants to end wars. And I haven't seen him post about this yet. But I assume he will in very short order,
he's going to take credit. Look, I've been elected and here's a war that already isn't going to happen anymore because they know that I'm coming in.
And there is some truth to that in the sense that the Israeli prime minister understands that President Trump -- President-Elect Trump is going
to give him pretty much anything he wants politically and militarily, but doesn't want to see ongoing wars in the Middle East.
So, I think this will come across and certainly be taken credit for by Trump as a win. He'll move on Russia-Ukraine soon thereafter. But, you
know, when I look at the relationship between Trump and Israel Biden is by far the most pro-Israel leader in the world today. Trump is going to be
significantly more pro-Israel than Biden. We've seen that with his appointment for ambassador to Israel, Mike Huckabee, who he appointed
before he had a secretary of state, even though, you know, usually it works the other way around. Same with the ambassador to the U.N. Elise Stefanik.
Trump no longer supports a two-state solution. He's made it clear that he's perfectly fine with the Israelis annexing the West Bank territory.
[18:10:00]
So, I mean -- and this was also a president that gave the Israelis a lot when he was president last time around. He recognized the Golan Heights as
Israeli, the occupied territory. He was the one that moved the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem. Many U.S. presidents, Democrat, Republican promised to do
that when they were campaigning. They never got it done. Trump did. And then, of course, he did the Abraham accords, arguably the most -- the
singular -- most spectacular success that he had from a foreign policy perspective while he was president.
So, if you're Israel, I mean -- and I don't just mean the right-wing in Israel. I mean, across the political spectrum, Trump is your guy. So, you
want to get as much of this wrapped up as possible before he becomes president. And I think that the future looks very bright for that
relationship.
CHATTERLEY: And already having an impact before he even re-enters the White House. So, just tell our viewers that we're showing you live pictures
of Beirut now, obviously Lebanon there. We're counting down now just under three hours until this ceasefire begins to take hold. So, we'll continue to
watch the night sky.
Ian, tie in now what we're hearing from the Ukrainians as well. We're clearly seeing movement with the Israeli-Lebanese situation or Hezbollah,
the Ukrainians are making noises that they're perhaps hopeful that the war ends in 2025. We've seen Trump in the last 24 hours suggest that he's going
to enact on day one tariffs on Canada, Mexico, and China. I think China obviously expected, the other two, perhaps a little bit unsure. He's
certainly throwing his weight around and having an impact. Do you expect leadership in these nations to react differently or differently from the
way that they reacted first time around?
BREMMER: Well, the Ukrainians didn't have to react the same the first time around because they were not facing an existential threat of invasion. They
had the little green men, but that was an ongoing low-level fighting. This is a very different story. And Zelenskyy has made clear he believes that
the war is more likely to end more quickly, both because Trump is coming in, also because they're losing territory and the Ukrainians are having a
harder time fighting.
Now, I mean, the big question is going to be, what is Trump prepared to give Putin? Because Putin really wants the economic sanctions to be ended.
Is the United States prepared to do that and -- in return for a ceasefire? And will the Europeans go along? That's an open question. Putin certainly
is going to want to have that normalization economically to show that he's not a pariah for the west. That's how he wins, if he's going to give a
ceasefire to the Americans and the Ukrainians, it'll be very interesting to watch that. The night falls on Eurasia Group here in New York. What do you
do?
Beyond that beyond that, of course, you do have these tariffs that have just come announced by Trump -- by President-Elect Trump. You're right
there against the Canadians and Mexicans. I will tell you privately, the Canadians or Mexicans are already trying to figure out what they can give
an incoming Trump administration that will stop those tariffs from being enacted. These are the two countries that are most dependent on their trade
relationship with the United States. They have literally nowhere else to go. No hedging they can possibly do. So, they don't want this fight. Those
are relatively easy wins for the Trump administration to get.
China is going to be much more challenging, and we'll see where a Trump- China relationship goes. I will tell you, it's interesting that he's linking all of them in his Truth posts on fentanyl. And on the one hand,
fentanyl is a big issue for a lot of people that voted for Trump. It's something that -- you know, a red meat to the base. He wants to give them
something, show he's doing something on fentanyl. But the numbers on fentanyl addictions are already coming down.
So, in that regard, it is possible that Trump is making this a headline so that when he becomes president, he has something he thinks that he can
announce as a win, even if not that much additional is accomplished. It wouldn't surprise me if he's thinking about that.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. More about immigration, perhaps, and drug trade than trade itself. Ian Bremmer, great to have you, sir, as always. You light
some candles. That's what you do when the lights go out. Thank you for continuing. The president of Eurasia Group there and GZERO Media.
Now, as we were just discussing, U.S. President-Elect Donald Trump's threat to hit Canada, Mexico, and China with fresh tariffs is injecting new
uncertainty into the global trade outlook. Trump whisperers say the tariff announcement should be viewed merely as a negotiating tool. They say
nothing is set in stone.
But Mexico already threatening retaliation, and Canada's conservative party leader calls it, quote, "an unjustified threat to its economy." And China
says, quote, "no one will win a trade war or a tariff war." One thing is certain, no one's paying attention to Trump on the stump during the
presidential campaign could say they weren't warned.
[18:15:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: And if they don't agree with us, we'll put a tariff of approximately 100 to 200 percent on each car and they will
be unsellable in the United States.
If I was Mr. Tariff, I would say, please get me a PR agent, I have to straighten out. It's one of the most beautiful words in the whole world,
the word tariff. It's more beautiful than love.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: One segment of the U.S. economy not loving Trump's announcement is the footwear industry. The leading Footwear Trade Group
says the new tariffs would lead to much higher prices for consumers. Matt Priest, president and CEO of Footwear Distributors and Retailers of
America, joins us now. His group works with the likes of Nike, Crocs, Under Armour, and Walmart, just to name a few.
Matt, welcome to the show. You can't be surprised by this announcement, but put this into context for us in terms of the risk of higher prices for
consumers.
MATT PRIEST, CEO, FOOTWEAR DISTRIBUTORS AND RETAILERS OF AMERICA: Yes, thanks for having me on Julia. I really appreciate it.
We are the poster child industry for how tariffs drive up costs for consumers. We've been paying exorbitant tariffs since 1930, almost 100
years. And we can tell you that as prices go up at the border, they go up for consumers. So, the president's announcement last night over Truth
Social, the president-elect's announcement was not a surprise. We've heard all the things, all the clips that you played. We've seen those before.
We've been preparing our members for well over a year for this potential, but we didn't know how he would go about accomplishing it.
And so, this announcement with the 10 percent on China and the 20 percent - - or 25 percent on Mexico in particular, one of our top sourcing countries, was a wakeup call for those of us who are trying to figure out costing and
how this will impact both the brands and the importers as well as the retailers that buy our product. And I can tell you that we have a trade
show next week in New York City, and our members are trying to figure out how to cost product that will be on the water at some point in the first
quarter. And it's difficult to do that with this new announcement.
CHATTERLEY: What kind of price rises are we talking about, Matt?
PRIEST: Well, we can tell you if there's a 10 percent added tariff on all goods coming out of China, you know, nearly 60 percent of our volume comes
from China. We've been diversifying now for 15 years, but those costs will be passed on to the American consumer. We've seen this time and time again,
particularly in the family retail channels and the mass retail channels.
And we even did a survey last week, asking over 2,000 voters here in the U.S. about how they feel about tariffs, even asking Trump supporters
themselves, how they feel about tariffs and while there's broad support for tariffs in particular, for national security items and other goods, when
you start to like, hone down and ask about footwear specifically, nearly 70 percent of the president's own supporters do not support tariffs on
footwear, particularly kids' shoes that have upwards of 70 percent tariffs already.
And so, we are trying to work with the administration that's coming in to let them know, hey, look, we support your desire to fix inflation as a
president-elect promised and we have some ideas on how to do that, but raising prices on items like footwear will not do the trick.
CHATTERLEY: Steve Madden came to mind because they said even before this announcement, look, we've been working on this. We're concerned. We're
going to shift a huge chunk of our supply chain from China to other nations like Vietnam. They mentioned Mexico. They mentioned Brazil. Obviously,
Mexico is a problem because it's now mentioned in this as well.
But what the president-elect wants his manufacturing to be done in the United States, and then you avoid all these tariffs. Matt, why isn't that
feasible? And will some of this come home eventually if the president-elect continues to push?
PRIEST: Yes. So, we import in almost two and a half billion pairs of shoes every single year. That's over seven pairs of shoes for every single person
in this country. And we manufacture about 25 million pairs for the domestic market here in the U.S. So, it's a drop in the bucket for the volume that
we need to serve the American consumer.
And right now, we had tariffs that were upwards of, you know, 60, 70 percent in place since 1930, and that did not keep domestic production jobs
here. And for most of our athletic companies, they started producing overseas at the outset of the launch of their brands many years ago.
And so, we are an example -- not every industry, not every product, not every segment of our society or our economy should have robust domestic
production. There are needs for it, absolutely. U.S. military needs. There are other applications that are needed here in the U.S. as far as footwear,
but if you were to move all that back to try to meet the needs of our consumers, prices would be too high and then we'd be kind of unreachable
for the average American.
So, that's what we're concerned about and that's why we want to continue to work with the incoming administration to find alternatives, because we can
tell you, production is not going to come back here to the U.S. in any big scale or form.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, economies of scale to go back to the old economics textbook and I think your point is very valid. We have to pick and choose.
PRIEST: That's right.
CHATTERLEY: Matt Priest, great to have you. President and CEO of Footwear Distributors and Retailers of America. Great to chat to you, sir.
[18:20:00]
Now, Ukrainians are waiting to see if Russia will repeat Monday night's drone strike. The Ukrainian Air Force saying 188 drones were sent, of which
76 were fired. Images show some of the damage the drones caused to homes in the capital Kyiv. The Air Force sources say Russia fired four ballistic
missiles which damaged critical infrastructure in one region. For Ukraine, the fighting grinds on as the war approaches the three-year mark.
Nick Paton Walsh has more. And a warning, some of the report in his -- or the video in his report is graphic.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): They're running out of time, space, and people. Night is killing time for drones.
WALSH: They've switched on the anti-drone device because of the threat around here.
WALSH (voice-over): This Ukrainian drone unit of just two, hunting, but also hunted.
WALSH: I think I hear a drone. Inside, inside. Is it a Russian drone? Is it one of theirs? I don't know, but they have to carry on.
WALSH (voice-over): Dogs are not friends. Their heat signals can give their launch spot away to Russia's thermal cameras. They close in on the
target, a house. Jamming hits the signal, but they fire anyway. Russia advancing too fast here, south of Pokrovsk in the east to miss any chances.
The skyline speaks of how Pokrovsk is in Russia's crosshairs. Ukraine is short of manpower, but it is so bad here they say they must rely on drones,
not infantry, to slow a brazen Russian daylight assault like this one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The situation is very critical. We lack the infantry to fight and hold out for some time while the attack
drones do their job. That's why we often see the enemy uncomfortably penetrating vulnerable areas.
WALSH (voice-over): This Russian tank, relentless. As a Trump presidency and possible peace talks loom, do they even have time for that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I cannot say how much time we have. If there is any time at all. Because now they are pushing their
troops to the front as much as possible. At then at one point, they will go for an assault. They can go very far. In one moment.
WALSH (voice-over): Talk here is abnormally negative. With weeks of costly and chaotic retreat on film. Like these Ukrainians hit when they're
mistakenly told this building didn't have any Russians in it. This house has an encircled Ukrainian drone unit without any infantry to help fight
advancing Russians. So, they send a drone to fly just 30 meters across the street.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I have no men. I'm -- alone. I'm - - tired. I love my job, whatever trash is happening but we need other young people to love this job too. Our country is awake, but people in it are --
not. Guys are dying here. This is trash. Freezing this war is a double- edged sword. Do we give up the land my friends died for or to continue taking it back and lose even more friends? If these two old men, Trump and
Putin, start measuring dicks, Ukraine will be the middle of it all.
WALSH (voice-over): Russian troops savage in the assault. This footage shows a local in orange who's shown Russians where Ukrainians were hiding.
They are led out and shot while face down.
Part of a pattern of surrendering Ukrainians executed, say prosecutors investigating this incident a fortnight ago. Pokrovsk's key sites bombed,
but so far spared Russia's trademark devastation. It is possible, some say, Moscow is moving so fast, it thinks it will spend the winter here.
Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, outside Pokrovsk, Ukraine.
CHATTERLEY: All right. Straight ahead for us, buttered up by Butterball, the traditional Thanksgiving feast of turkey and trimmings will cost
Americans less this year. The CEO of the poultry giant joins us next to talk turkey.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:25:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." Wall Street sweats as Trump tariffs threats. All that and more in today's Money Move. Tariff attention
dominating the discourse in Tuesday's session. Stocks closed higher, however, with the Dow and the S&P still managing to hit fresh record highs.
But take a look at this, shares of automakers GM, Ford, and Stellantis were all hit hard. They make cars in Mexico and Canada, which would then, if we
see the tariffs hit, will be subject to a 25 percent tariff under the Trump's new proposals.
The tariff news sending the U.S. dollar to a more than two-year high against the Mexican peso and a four and a half year high against the
Canadian dollar. But it wasn't all about tariffs. Shares of Novo Nordisk and Eli Lilly also higher, as you can see. President Biden wants their
obesity drugs covered under Medicaid and Medicare, which would therefore then drive-up demand. It makes them more able to be bought or cheaper to be
purchased.
Mostly red arrows across Asia. South Korea shares pulling back. Australian shares also easing from records. Nervousness, as you can see, in Japan and
China there too. Again, after Donald Trump's first tariff salvo as president-elect.
Now, turning to China. From tariffs to Turkey, the American Farm Bureau just out with encouraging news for American families set to gather for
Thursday's Thanksgiving feast. It says the price of a 16-pound turkey is down 6 percent from last year, call it a less absurd price for a bird. The
overall cost of a Thanksgiving meal for 10 people is set to fall some 5 percent from 2023 levels too. All that sounds great, but of course it's
still significantly higher than pre-pandemic levels.
And one company synonymous with the Thanksgiving celebration is food giant Butterball. This year, the potentates of poultry are back in action with
their Butterball holiday hotline for cooks in a quandary. We'll talk about that too. Jay Jandrain joins us now. He's the president and CEO of
Butterball.
Jay, it is always a pleasure to talk to you around this time of year. Lots of people I know getting into the seasonal spirit. How has demand been this
year, just give us a sense, particularly with prices coming down a little bit?
JAY JANDRAIN, PRESIDENT AND CEO, BUTTERBALL: Well, thank you for having me and demand is up. We've seen very brisk fail thus far, and the data that
we've got since the holiday selling season began. A number of our retailers reporting that they're seeing more product leaving the stores now and a lot
of activity in their grocery store. So, that's great news. It does -- as you mentioned, also, it's great news for the consumer. And that the price
of turkey are down a little bit this year.
So, especially as we've seen such a challenge with inflation for consumers the last couple of years, this is a nice respite for them. So, we're glad
to be a part of that.
[18:30:00]
CHATTERLEY: Are people trading down in the size of their turkey because it's a little bit cheaper or are they spending the same amount and getting
a little bit more for their money? How are people reacting to this?
JANDRAIN: We actually see a really good mix of that. We're -- for the holiday this year, we're expecting the average table had nine people at it,
and that's up from previous years when we're coming off of the pandemic. So, that's great news. We're seeing larger gatherings, which typically
means it may be in a larger Turkey. But then, in some cases, also, consumers are buying that whole bird, and then they may buy another
product, a bone and breast or boneless breast roast to cook with it if they maybe don't need quite two turkeys, but they need a little bit more than
one will serve. So, they're going a larger turkey or they're maybe supplementing with another product as well. So, fortunately, we've got
those products as well to meet those consumer needs.
CHATTERLEY: Now, it's no surprise to me that apparently 49 percent of Gen Zers and Millennials are nervous and find the whole process pretty
intimidating. And I'm right there. So, you've created a cook from frozen line. So, you literally shoved the frozen turkey in the oven. Jay, how does
that work? Can you still stuff a frozen turkey? I'm asking, clearly, all the important questions that's revealing my lack of talent in this space.
What kind of demand have you seen for those birds?
JANDRAIN: Well, the attention we've got around has been fantastic. It's actually on a limited basis this year and select stores, but consumers can
go to our website and look into our store locator and find a store near them that might have the product. Our intent is that we expand that into
national production next year. But the feedback has been exceptional.
We've -- I think we've definitely satisfied a consumer need. As you mentioned, some folks are very intimidated by some are younger and some are
-- cooks have been doing it for a long time and maybe just want to spend a little bit more time with their friends and family and don't want to spend
too much time in the kitchen.
So, it is literally, as you explain, take it out of the freezer, take it out of the package, put it right in the oven and just take it out when it's
done. So, it really takes the work out of it. And you cannot stuff that turkey. That's for sure. If you want stuffing, you have to make it a
separate pan.
CHATTERLEY: I'm glad we clarified that. Just watching that video there at that table spread and I'm already hungry. I mentioned the talk line, which
I also think is important too for customers as well, because if people are having disasters or need advice, you do and have been running a talk line
for people to call up and get advice. How many people call that each year, Jay? I know it runs for several days or weeks. And what's your best tip for
keeping the turkey moist and juicy and delicious?
JANDRAIN: Well, we are in our 43rd year of the turkey talk line, and we're very happy to have that. You know, in a day and age when we've got so many
things are automated and so many people have frustration speaking to a live person. Every time you call the turkey talk line, you're going to get a
live person. And we've got people who actually do it year after year. It's actually a pretty interesting. They'll even ask for certain talk line
experts. They've gotten to know and become friends with over the holiday.
So, it's great to be able to offer that service to them. But we have thousands and thousands of callers and that talk line is staffed right up
through Thanksgiving and beyond as we get into Christmas as well, we'll have talk line folks there ready to answer questions. And you know, we get
all across the board.
Thawing is one is a big question that people ask. Now, with that cooked from frozen turkey, hopefully we're satisfying that need. They only have to
worry about the thawing process itself. But we're really there to provide that support. But we understand that for some folks it is an intimidating
holiday and an intimidating meal to make. Most important meal of the year, and we want to be there to lend a little support for them.
CHATTERLEY: Sounds like you're never replacing those people with A.I.
JANDRAIN: No, we -- no, we sure won't. We look at that for a lot of other things and invest in technology and other areas, but we won't do it with
the talk.
CHATTERLEY: Good to know. Jay, Happy Thanksgiving. Thank you so much, the president and CEO of Butterball there.
JANDRAIN: Thank you and Happy Thanksgiving.
CHATTERLEY: All right. It'll be a chilly start to the holiday season here in the northeast U.S. The storm will bring rain or snow to some areas.
Plus, an arctic outbreak promises glacial temperatures. Elisa Raffa joins us now from the CNN Weather Center. What's one of those?
ELISA RAFFA, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, it's going to get pretty cold after Thanksgiving by a big Black Friday, and we're tracking a storm still that
will make Thanksgiving pretty soggy. We have one storm that's currently exiting the East Coast. You see still some travel problems in Boston, but
that's the last of it.
Our next storm is already developing, and that will start to bring us some problems as we go into tomorrow. We'll start to find some rain and snow
building in the Rockies, parts of the Central Plains as well. We could be looking at some wet roads there. But then by Thursday is when this thing
really flourishes. And we've got rain and snow up in the northeast, a couple of inches of snow in interior New England, and then that rain
stretches from New York to D.C., Charlotte, even down towards Atlanta and Florida. So, we're looking at some pretty soggy turkeys. A lot of those
Thanksgiving Day parades will be wet.
Then here comes that arctic blast. All that cold air comes in and that pumps the lake affect snow machine off of the Great Lake. So, again, your
travel problems tomorrow might not be as bad as today, really focusing the Rockies and the Central Plains and then continues to move to those big
cities along the East Coast on Thursday. That's where we could find some problems at the airports.
[18:35:00]
If you're still trying to head out on Thanksgiving morning, it might be problematic for places like D.C., New York, and then again up to Boston,
especially as you get some of that snow to wrap around parts of New England going into Friday. So, soggy along the east coast on Thanksgiving and then
that cold air wraps in behind it.
We're talking about some of the coldest temperatures of the season so far. That arctic air again will unleash that lake effect snow machine where a
couple of feet of snow is possible off of the Great Lakes, Julia.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. So, we've got soggy parades. But hopefully, moist and not soggy turkeys. Let's clarify and qualify that. Elisa, thank you. That's
great.
All right. Coming up for us, protests in Pakistan. Supporters of the nation's former prime minister march on the capital seeking his release.
More details on that in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." Dramatic images from Pakistan as supporters of Former Prime Minister Imran Khan marched on the nation's
capital. Khan urging them on X despite the fact that he's currently in jail. Protesters hope to stage a sit in demanding his release. However,
they were met with police and tear gas. Authorities say at least one officer was killed, several people were injured. Mike Valerio has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIKE VALERIO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, earlier today, protesters actually entered the city limits of Islamabad, and notably, our CNN team on the
ground reported seeing soldiers guarding Pakistan's parliament as well as the country's Supreme Court building.
So, how we got here exactly, we have the former prime minister, Imran Khan, who a couple days ago, issued a clarion call to his supporters from jail.
He's incarcerated right now. And he said, hey, I need you, supporters, to march on parliament and call for my release, and that is exactly what is
happening, or what the protesters want to happen. That's their objective.
[18:40:00]
So, the first demand that protesters, followers of Imran Khan, are asking for, they want the release of the former prime minister, and the release of
people whom they deem, quote/unquote, "political prisoners." The second demand that these protesters have, they want the repeal of a constitutional
amendment. Pakistan's 26th constitutional amendment, which makes it a little easier for the government to pick superior court judges and pick
those judges for cases that involve political matters. The third demand that protesters have who we're seeing in these images, they are calling for
a return of their, quote, "stolen mandate."
There were elections nationwide in February and protesters, the followers of the former prime minister, are saying, you know, essentially our party
did extremely well in these elections and we won seats that have been denied. So, they are calling for seats that they think are rightfully
theirs to be awarded to them.
So, the government, Prime Minister Sharif, he rejects those claims and he's calling for more talks with people who adhere to the party of the former
prime minister. But what we have seen are swaths of Islamabad that are without cell phone service from time to time, without internet service as
well. Giant blockades, giant barricades of major thoroughfares in and out of Islamabad that have been put up to try to prevent protesters from coming
into the city.
So, the main question, how many protesters will amass inside the center of the city? Will they perhaps make it to parliament? And how long can this go
on with a city that has more than a million people?
Mike Valerio, CNN, Seoul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHATTERLEY: Our thanks to Mike there. Now, coming up, an A.I. intervention. A new study says A.I. could help debunk conspiracy theories.
Just in time for those family arguments. So, Thanksgiving and over Christmas. We'll discuss, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." For many families this holiday season, the discussion of politics is strictly off limits, and that might
include who you voted for, perhaps in an election or even fringe beliefs and conspiracy theories. However, if you're still finding yourself arguing,
you can now call for backup.
[18:45:00]
A new study shows an A.I. chatbot could help challenge deeply held beliefs. Clare Duffy tested it out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: OK. So, I wanted to test out the debunk bot for myself. So, I've input one of my favorite sort of goofy conspiracy
theories, which is that birds are not real and have been replaced by government surveillance drones. And we're going to see how the A.I.
responds to this. I have described why I believed this. So, let's see what it has to say.
It's thinking. OK. So, it says, I understand your concern. Indeed, the use of animals in espionage has historical precedent, like the use of pigeons
in wartime to carry messages. But then it asks me to consider all of this evidence for why birds are in fact real.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHATTERLEY: Clare Duffy is tackling the topic as part of her new CNN podcast, Terms of Service. Clare, congrats on the new podcast. It's like
digital arbitration, but you know what I liked about that very brief introduction was how placatory the system was, I understand what you're
thinking, however.
DUFFY: Yes, it is really sort of kind about it. It doesn't make you feel like a fool. I mean, I, of course, believe the birds are real, but it does
make you feel sort of OK about the fact that you think these things. And then, it presents all this evidence. And in this case, it said, think about
how many types of birds there are and how hard they would be to replicate with drones. And how would you charge all of those bird drones?
And it's kind of a silly example, but these researchers said that this A.I. chatbot debunk bot really was successful at changing people's minds about
even more dangerous conspiracy theories, like the false claim that the 2020 election was stolen. And I think you see from that example why this thing
really works. And one of the reasons is because it is nonjudgmental. It makes you think. doesn't make you feel like a fool for believing these
things. There isn't going to be that ego driven need to win an argument when you're talking to an A.I. chatbot.
The other is that these A.I. tools have access to so much more information and evidence than you or I might have offhand if we're having a
conversation with somebody who has gone really deep down a rabbit hole of a certain conspiracy theory. And the other thing I thought was really
interesting is these researchers said that if people anticipate that they're going to be having conversations with conspiracy believing
relatives ahead of the holidays, they can actually use this tool as an argument coach to arm themselves with some of the evidence they might need
going into that conversation.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I think I just bring the whole laptop with me and just let that be the intermediary in the discussion, because I think that the
beauty of this, to your point, is that the depth of knowledge is so much greater than the average person facing off over a discussion point like
this. So, just having that weight of information matters.
DUFFY: Yes, it is huge. I think the one challenge they're going to run into here if they try to make this more than sort of a research experiment
is a lot of people don't trust artificial intelligence. And how are you going to get people who hold these beliefs deeply to go to a tool that they
know is going to challenge those beliefs? I think that is the sort of area where they're going to have a hard time maybe commercializing a product
like this.
But I do think it's really interesting. And if there are people who have questions about something that they've read online, this could be a good
place to go, to get some answers about and context about that information.
CHATTERLEY: Yes. And with the drone example, as silly as it was, I like the practical implications. How do you charge all these drones? You know,
just on a very simple level.
DUFFY: Totally.
CHATTERLEY: Yes, I like it. We'll see. Clare Duffy, great job. Thank you.
DUFFY: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: All right. Coming up after the break, musical icon, political campaigner, billionaire entrepreneur. When we return, the author of a new
book lifting the lid on Taylor Swift's life and loves and more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:50:00]
CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to "First Move." Now, while Canada might be flinching at the prospect of a trade battle, one U.S. export is being
welcomed with open arms. Taylor Swift thanking her fans on Instagram after a run of six shows in Toronto with her Eras Tour about to draw to a close
in Vancouver. My next guest has penned what he calls an intimate look at the life and music of one of pop's most legendary figures.
Leading music journalist Rob Sheffield claims Taylor Swift is on a par with The Beatles and David Bowie. And Rob joins us now. Rob, fantastic to have
you with us. I want to talk about the book because it's fantastic, but lots of people love her, very few people have met her. I know you haven't
interviewed her, but at least you've interacted. What is she like?
ROB SHEFFIELD, AUTHOR, "HEARTBREAK IS THE NATIONAL ANTHEM" AND CONTRIBUTING EDITOR AT ROLLING STONE: Well, she's just as she is in her music as
everybody knows. She's very much engaged with people. She always had this really strange ability to listen to people even when she was young. I mean,
I think about when I was 16 and how hopelessly self-absorbed most of us are at that age. And she always had that outward drive to connect to people and
that really shows in her music for sure.
CHATTERLEY: I mean, one of the things you make very clear, I think, is the sort of wisdom beyond her age in many respects that she was -- and we saw
that with the handling of her record label, the re-recording of the records, her ability to pen music as well and to write songs. But you've
talked about the fact that she was giving interviews at 16 and explaining the secret messaging on some of the sort of CD covers that she was doing.
And that's something that very much resonates with what The Beatles were doing back in their time too. She's sort of smart and calculated in a good
way.
SHEFFIELD: Absolutely. Even when she began as this 16-year-old prodigy, she was already thinking long terms of history. She was already thinking
she didn't just want to have a hit record, she wanted to have a hit catalog that would go down in history and a songbook that would change the way
people approach music.
CHATTERLEY: She's a -- and you describe her in some ways as sort of she shifted the pop paradigm and that she was thinking about the longevity of
her career rather than just being as she was there what people were assuming she was sort of a pop princess that would be here one minute and
be there -- or not be there the next.
How? Why? What is in her that makes her -- well, that provides that level of vision, I think, and foresight? Because you see that and hear that in
her music too, I think. It resonates with all.
SHEFFIELD: You sure can. Imagine somebody who's going to make a threat to say that I'm going to re-record my entire life's work. I'm just going to
remake all these albums over and over again. While I'm already the busiest pop star on the planet, I'm just going to do this in my spare time.
Absolutely none of the industry experts thought that she would go through with this threat. Of course, I didn't think that she'd go through with it
for a minute, but she not only went through with it, but she made each one of those recordings an event in itself, and it's just a tribute to her
fanatical vibe. There's something really driven and really kind of maniacal in the most benevolent way about her.
CHATTERLEY: And fearless. I guess we could use that word too with whether it's the record label, music, politically, even backing a political
candidate as well, Rob. I mean, she was unafraid in that sense as well. What more do you want to see from her in the future? And if you compare her
to the likes of The Beatles or David Bowie or even a Madonna that sort of made a career out to transformation and innovation, how does she keep this
sustainable?
SHEFFIELD: It's really incredible. I think because she's changed the future of pop music so much that in a way she's created a world of Taylor
Swift's, if you know what I mean. When she began in the 2000s, she was a 16-year-old writing her own songs about her own life. She was the only one
doing that. She had to fight to prove it could be done.
And you look at what's on top of pops right now, with Sabrina Carpenter and Chappell Roan and Olivia Rodrigo and Billie Eilish and Gracie Abrams, all
these stars who don't sound like Taylor, but they're all moving in on the territory that she opened up.
CHATTERLEY: Does she have an Achilles heel, Rob?
SHEFFIELD: That's a very good question. I think it's that she is such a perfectionist and that she's going to do things over and over until they're
the way that she wants them, and that's something that really comes across in her live performance. She could just do two hours and it would still be
the biggest show, the best night of everybody's life, who's there. And yet, she does almost four hours. She works so much harder than she has to. It's
slightly scary.
[18:55:00]
CHATTERLEY: And yet, she does it. Don't let perfection get in the way of a great performance. Be fascinating to watch it continue. And thank you for
joining us. Fascinating book. Fascinating person, I think. Rob Sheffield, thank you, sir.
SHEFFIELD: Thank you so much. I agree.
CHATTERLEY: Happy Thanksgiving.
SHEFFIELD: Thank you.
CHATTERLEY: And finally, on "First Move," if heights give you the frights, look away now. China's newest tourist attraction has just opened in Hunan
Province. It's called The Sky Ladder, which stretches between two cliffs 5,000 feet up. That's 1,500 meters. For comparison, Dubai's Burj Khalifa is
only about half as tall. In terms of protection, you get handrails, and a harness. Truly terrifying or a challenge to be conquered. All I can say is
don't look down. Yes, I might do it one day.
That just about wraps up the show. Thank you for joining us. I'll see you tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
END
