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First of All with Victor Blackwell
WI Man Dies After Being Held Down By Hotel Security; Biden Goes On Attack Against Trump Amid Calls To Drop Out; Biden To Supporters: "I'm Running And We're Going To Win"; Georgia Black Voters Tell CNN They're Sticking With Biden; GA Voter To CNN: "A Lot Of Black Men Are Voting For Trump". Aired 8-9a ET
Aired July 13, 2024 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:00:00]
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: D'Vontaye Mitchell, he died after he was held down by hotel security in Milwaukee. It's being investigated as a homicide. Now I'm going to speak with his widow.
AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Have a great show, Victor.
BLACKWELL: Thank you very much. All right, coming up. Let's start it right now.
Well, first of all, President Biden has told you all now he's not getting out of this race. He's not going anywhere. He says he's staying in this run for the presidency. He says, he's going to be here. And he said again last night, and the crowd told him they want him to stay.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MULTIPLE SPEAKER: Don't you quit. Don't you quit. We have you back. We have your back.
JOE BIDEN, USA PRESIDENT: I've got your back. A lot of speculations lately. What's Joe Biden going to do? Is he going to stay in the race? You're going to drop out. Where's my show? I am running and we're going to win. I'm the nominee of the Democratic Party, the only Democrat or Republican has beaten Donald Trump ever. And I'm going to beat him again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLACKWELL: Now, if you couldn't decipher that, they were saying, don't you quit, and we've got your back. And yes, it's one crowd. Chances are, you know, if you're coming to a Biden-Harris rally, they support Biden-Harris. But not nearly as much a collective show of enthusiasm from elected Democrats.
On one hand, there is the president's longtime close friend, Congressman Jim Clyburn, and he says, he's riding with Biden.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CRAIG MELVIN, NBC TODAY'S ANCHOR: Should the conversation about the president getting out of this race? Should that conversation continue?
REP. JIM CLYBURN, (D) SOUTH CAROLINA: No, it shouldn't. Let Joe Biden continue to make his own decisions about his future. He's earned that right. And I am going to give him that much respect. If he decides to change his mind later on, then we will respond to that. We have until the 19th of August to open our convention.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLACKWELL: Then you have former Speaker Nancy Pelosi, even after almost two weeks of the President saying that he is not getting out of the race. Here's Pelosi.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP NANCY PELOSI, (D) SPEAKER EMERITA: It's up to the president to subside if he is going to run. We're all encouraging him to make that decision because time is running short.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLACKWELL: He says he's decided that there is no time to think about it. He's already decided he's going to stay in the race. Two dozen former Democratic lawmakers are calling for an open convention but they need Biden to release his delegates no sign he's going to do that. Twenty current members of Congress are calling for him to get out of the race, even some who are not are essentially shrugging and saying, well, you know, he can run if he wants to.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. JERRY NADLER, (D) NEW YORK: Only he can withdraw. He's made it very clear that he won't, and that's the President has determined that he is the best candidate and given the fact that he's won the nomination. He's got all the delegates, only he can make that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLACKWELL: And so far, no member of the Congressional Black Caucus has publicly called for the President to withdraw and if President Biden is going to overcome this challenge, it will be black voters who will push or carry him through the convention.
A CBS News poll, look at this. The question here, Joe Biden should be running for reelection. 26% of registered white voters say yes, 34% of Hispanic registered voters say yes, 58% of Black voters here thought that Biden should stay in the race, more than any other demographic.
Joining me now is Derrick Johnson, President and CEO of the NAACP, the President will be speaking to your convention in Vegas next week. Good morning. Good to have you. Let me start there with a welcome to for coming on the show at this hour.
Why do you think --
DERRICK JOHNSON, CEO AND PRESIDENT, NAACP: Good morning. BLACKWELL: Why do you think that black voters are more likely than any
other demographic to say to the president stay at the top of his ticket?
JOHNSON: In a two party system, you have two candidates that have been chosen by Democrats across the country and they won their primaries. We are approaching the first major party convention on this upcoming week, the second and only a few weeks, and African Americans are more concerned with the policies that will come out of the decision of who becomes president than they are the individuals or any single performance.
You consider project 2025 many African Americans understand that that would recreate an apartheid system in the United States adversely affecting our interests, and minimizing our ability to participate is for citizens. So this is less about Candidate A or Candidate B. This is more about the policies that we are concerned about. This is really more about whether we have a functioning democracy or something less than.
[08:05:04]
BLACKWELL: Yes. And we're going to talk about Project 2025 right after my conversation with you. But there are some who might be looking on and saying, well, wait a minute, if the president steps aside, you then have a black woman vice president who would likely be the front runner to get that nomination. The delegates would likely be interested in moving toward her. She had access to the money and the resources. Why not make a move toward the vice president Kamala Harris?
JOHNSON: For African Americans were saying the table is set. And until there is a change, let's continue to proceed. We are in July. We're looking at a November election. The party's convention starting next week in the in the Democratic Party, is that a few weeks. His late in the season, so many people are anxious and concerned with what are we doing at this late day? Why are we now trying to create something where everybody's will say, we don't need a freefall process. We need a process to ensure that in these two party systems where the candidates have been chosen, we can move forward.
African Americans are less concerned about the individuals are more concerned about the policy priorities that the parties are pushing forward. And that's a concern. It's not about individuals, it's about the policy.
BLACKWELL: So NAACP is not a political organization. You do not endorse but you have spoken about, as you said, Not Candidate A or B but you've spoken about the choice between democracy and fascism that is on the ballot. Are you any more or less confident today, that, as you frame it, that fascism that's on the ballot, will be rebuffed in November than you were? You know, a month ago? I said before the debate?
JOHNSON: Well, let's be clear. The NAACP, we're non-partisan. We don't endorse political candidates or parties. But we are very political, because politics is what define public policy that determined the quality of life of individuals. We're concerned about the policy. Secondly, we believe candidates in their rhetoric, when they say certain stuff, anyone to say that I will be a dictator for a day than me to be a dictator for a term.
Anyone who adores a platform that was subvert democracy should be of concern, not only for the African American community, but for all Americans. And so we are we have and we are continuously evaluated what candidates are stating, but it's very clear this choice for African Americans that we want a functioning democracy that's inclusive of our ability to fully participate, and not a democracy that's masquerading to be such, as we've seen in 1930 or 1940, where African Americans, by and large, were excluded from fully participating.
BLACKWELL: I appreciate the correction on political versus partisan you released the black policy agenda this year as well. So let me ask you one more thing. This kind of caught my eye. Tim Alberta wrote a piece for The Atlantic about Trump's plan for a landslide win. And he recounts discussing a Trump aid strategy with campaign Senior Advisor Susie Wiles and their fight to win black men 18 to 34. And here's what he wrote.
He reiterated the eight sentiment. He said, "For every Karen, we lose the reference to white women, we're going to win a Jamal or Enrique" and then Wiles nodded in approval. She said, according to Alberta. "That's a fact. I believe it and I so believe we are realigning the party," she told me. What's your reaction to that framework?
JOHNSON: First of all, I respect Tim Alberta and how he's approached much of the discussion over the last several years. His books are phenomenal. But it really highlights the racial undertones that that campaign take in terms of approaching African American voters and seeking to really win them over on the legitimate policy issue. So improve the quality of life, as opposed to pick off individuals just good enough to win an election only to harm those individuals. We must as a society recognize the threat that's in front of us. And that threat is one of reshaping the concept of democracy in this country. And if we choose we don't choose wisely, we will not recognize this country unless in four years.
BLACKWELL: Derrick Johnson, I thank you for waking up so early to be on with me. You're on the West Coast and good luck on a successful convention.
JOHNSON: Thank you.
BLACKWELL: When the Republican National Convention is gaveled in next week, the party will adopt its official party platform. What's not clear though, is how much of that platform will be informed by project 2025?
Plan is more than 900 pages. It was devised a compiled by the Heritage Foundation. This is a conservative think tank. These are the people who created the foundation for Newt Gingrich's Contract with America 30 years ago.
Now heritage framed this as the blueprint for Trump's second term but Trump wrote on social media. "I know nothing about Project 2025. I have no idea who is behind it." But a CNN investigation found almost 140 people who work for Trump and had a hand in crafting the Project 2025 six of them are former cabinet secretaries. His first deputy chief of staff gets credit for about 20 pages of the plan. Trump says he doesn't know these people heritage plans for my future. I don't know what you're talking about. Problem with that is that in 2022, he knew exactly what heritage was. And he was down with the plan.
[08:10:41]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is a great group and they're going to lay the groundwork and detail plans for exactly what our movement will do and what your movement will do when the American people give us a colossal mandate to save America.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLACKWELL: Project 2025 is a conservative, some might say right wing wish List of policy proposals. Things they've wanted to do for years, making it easier to fire lots of career federal workers, presumably to replace them with Trump loyalist, shrink the size of government. On social issues, ban abortion pills, deport millions of undocumented immigrants. The plan is to dramatically change America's present and future and this morning, we're going to dig deep on the plan for education. It would completely eliminate the Department of Education, dismantle programs like Title One, which supports low income schools.
States would be responsible for funding those schools. It would eliminate the Head Start program, which provides early schooling for low income families. It argues parents should have the right to sue for damages if their child is taught something without prior consent. It would require public high school students to take the Military Entrance Exam to address military recruitment issues. There's a lot there.
Joining me now is Becky Pringle, president of the National Education Association. Thank you so much for being with me this morning. And I want to get straight to what is proposed here and start with Title One, the billions of dollars that go to districts with lots of low income students. It would put -- the proposal is to transition it to block grants that go to the States, no strings attached. That money could go to school, but it's a student's, but it's no strings attached. That's self-explanatory, and then phase it out after 10 years. What would just that one change mean for public schools in this country?
BECKY PRINGLE, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL EDUCATION ASSOCIATION: It's good to be with you this morning. Victor, let me let me be very, very clear about what Project 2025 is designed to do. It is designed to destroy public education. You know, I taught science for 31 years. And I understand the role that public education plays not only in the lives of our students, but it is the actual foundation of this or any democracy.
And so Project 2025 and all that you just listed Victor, and so much more is designed to destroy that opportunity for every student, everyone to develop those critical thinking skills, those collaborative problem solving skills, all the things we need to know our students need to live their life, so that they can become the leaders of the Justice Society. So when we talk about the elimination of Title One, we are actually talking about rolling back the Civil Rights Act because in the late 60s, when that was passed, there was a large portion of that, that specifically spoke to equitable education and filling those gaps for those students that we know have been historically marginalized.
We know that our students need those resources and supports so that every single one white, black, brown, AAPI, students with disabilities, our LGBTQ plus, all of them have the resources and educators and support they need to live into their brilliance.
BLACKWELL: You know, something we've covered on this show the racial disparities in school discipline. We know that black and Hispanic students who live in homes that are below the federal poverty line are disciplined more often and more severely than white students below that line and all students above it. Project 2025 wants to eliminate the efforts by this administration to close the gap there. And when we talk about, you know, the school to prison pipeline, those students who are disciplined disproportionately are out of the classroom more often. They get lower test scores and then the ball starts rolling. Are you seeing either from this administration, the Biden administration or proposed in Project 2025, are they are either of them getting it right because Brookings even said that what Biden is putting forward is vanishingly thin in substance. Who's getting it right to protect those students?
[08:15:09]
PRINGLE: Victor, the National Education Association, the NEA pass the policy on safe just and equitable schools. And the reason we did that is because we know our students can't -- aren't ready to learn every day, if they don't feel safe if they don't feel seen. And if we as an institution don't address the historic inequities that are built into every single social system in this country, those inequities based on race, and income, and status, and ability, all of those things.
And so it's important that we dig into the disparities that we know exists in our school discipline policies. We do know we have to keep our schools safe. And that's one of the reasons why we've worked with the Biden-Harris administration to address those disparities in policies all around the country.
And we also know that the Biden-Harris administration is working directly with us to reduce gun violence in our schools by passing the most sweeping legislation we've seen in 30 years. And what does Donald Trump says, say, after a school shooting, he says to the parents, and educators to the students, they just need to get over it. It's very clear the choice that we have to make, and all of these things are included in the Project 2025 and everyone, everyone needs to understand what's at stake. They need to be afraid. They need to be very afraid. And they need to go to the polls and make sure that we have a democracy come this November.
BLACKWELL: Becky Pringle love the NEA. Thank you so much. We're just starting the conversation on Project 2025 Starting with education, but we will walk through it. Thank you so much for being with me this morning.
Let's take you to Wisconsin. It's just a big teddy bear. That's how the family of a man in Wisconsin they're remembering him after he died while being pinned down by hotel security guards. Coming up. I speak with D'Vontaye Mitchell's widow.
And if you only saw the name, Victor Blackwell, what would you assume about me? Would you assume that I'm black? Would it make you think twice about hiring me? One man suspected his name was why he was not getting any responses to job applications. So he changed it on his resume. And guess what? He started getting calls. We'll speak with him about the lawsuit he just filed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:22:16]
BLACKWELL: The family of a man who died after he was pinned down by employees at a Hyatt Regency Hotel in Milwaukee is waiting to hear if the district attorney will file charges. Police say that on June 30, security guards escorted the D'Vontaye Mitchell out of the hotel for causing a disturbance. And we have to warn you, these images that you'll see may be disturbing. A video posted on social media shows the guards and other hotel workers pinning Mitchell to the ground. Do you hear him there, begging for them to stop.
By the time police arrived Mitchell was unresponsive. The hotel has fired its employees involved. It's not clear how many or if security guards were let go. Police said if referred for charges of felony murder to the district attorney's office no announcement yet on whether they'll be filed.
Joining me now is D'Vontaye Mitchell's widow, Deasia Harmon and Williams Sulton an attorney representing the family. Welcome to you both Deasia I am sorry that this is how we meet and what we're discussing this morning. But when you see and actually more important when you hear that video, what do you feel? What do you think?
DEASIA HARMON, D'VONTAYE MITCHELL'S WIDOW: I'm angry about it. I'm okay, empty. I honestly I don't know. I don't know how I'm supposed to feel. It's good, Victor, honestly.
BLACKWELL: Attorney Sulton, let me ask you because these were security guards, not sworn police officers. So when we look at it through that prism, I don't know if we're supposed to approach it the way that we unfortunately have to approach so many deaths like this rules of use of force, de-escalation procedures. How does this differ as a legal issue from if this were these were police officers versus private hotel security guards? WILLIAM F. SULTON, THE SULTON LAW FIRM: Thank you for the question, Victor, because it is a significant one and an important one. Because these were not police officers, they did not have the right to detain Mr. Mitchell. And in Wisconsin, we do have Citizens Arrest but that requires observation of an ongoing felony. There was no crime committed by Mr. Mitchell at all. And in fact, we know that Mr. Mitchell was running away from a security officer who had attacked him and that he was retreating the entire time and despite Mr. Mitchell trying to retreat, which included leaving -- leaving the
hotel after seeking refuge there, that he was repeatedly beaten to the point in which he was killed.
[08:25:19]
BLACKWELL: This is a portion of a statement from Hyatt. Let me put it up on the screen. "We believe that the employees of Aimbridge hospitality who were involved should be terminated and that criminal charges should be filed." What insight do you have at all into the process of the DAs office? Do you know if that's coming likely?
SULTON: So I'm confident that the Milwaukee County District Attorney's office will make the right decision here. I give them credit for meeting with me for three hours on Wednesday morning, an hour on Wednesday afternoon and two hours again on Thursday morning. I'm very confident that they will make that decision. But I think it's important for your viewers to understand that this would not have happened without the (inaudible) of the family. Because the city Milwaukee Police Department repeatedly said that this was not a criminal investigation.
The city Milwaukee Police Department tried to elevate the security the security forces to the level of law enforcement officers and then tried to sweep it under the rug. And that is wrong. And so I give credit to the family, have credit to the district attorney's office. I do believe criminal charges will be issued in this case. And I want to be very clear that this involves more than just for persons.
You know, Mr. Mitchell was beaten with a broom by a front desk manager who you see on camera. You see a third security official who could have intervened and stopped us that there was so many opportunities and at every turn, hired staff attacked him.
BLACKWELL: Deasia, I don't want to talk about your late husband just in death. Who was he in life?
HARMON: He's a beautiful person. He was very funny and just energetic. He was a wonderful father. He loved his children, you know? He was just all around great. He was helpful. He was everything.
BLACKWELL: Deasia Harmon, again, our condolences and William Sulton, thank you for joining us. CNN has reached out to the Milwaukee County District Attorney. He gave us this statement. "Autopsy results will inform the ongoing police investigation into Mr. Mitchell's death and allow our office to comprehensively evaluate the actions leading up to Mr. Mitchell death from the perspective of potential criminal liability." Same resume to different names. A black man says his resume was
ignored for months until he changed the name on the header. We speak with them about a new lawsuit is filed. And will he stay, will he go, America has been asking the question about President Biden for two weeks now. We've heard from the politicians. Now let's hear from the voters.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't rock the boat unless you have a plan to get me back to shore. What is the plan? I mean, you're saying step down. But then what's the ticket?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:32:52]
BLACKWELL: Four ago black voters saved Joe Biden's campaign. Now they may have to do it again. Black voters especially in crucial battleground states are big again seen as vital allies not all but many are his boldest, strongest line of defense against lawmakers and some donors down demanding Biden stepaside.
CNN's Rene Marsh is with us early this Saturday morning. Rene you spoke with some voters in Georgia. What did they tell you?
RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Victor. You know, when I left Washington for the South, specifically Georgia, the conversation surrounding Biden and whether he should exit the presidential race was dramatically different. Here's what black voters there told me.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARSH (VOICEOVER): We're in the battleground state of Georgia for breakfast, lunch and dinner with black Democratic voters. Our first stop the black owned Atlanta's Breakfast Club.
In between bites of pancakes, chicken and waffles, voters weighed in on the race for president.
JARITA BURDETTE, GEORGIA VOTER: I am voting for democracy and as of right now, a convicted felon is not it. It's not it. Biden's that guy. That's what I'm writing with.
KELVIN BURDETTE, GEORGIA VOTER: I'm a solid no. Yes. I don't want him to step aside. That there's no other choice at this time.
MARSH (VOICEOVER): After Biden's poor debate performance, some members of his own party have called on him to exit the race over fears he can't win. In 2020 Biden, won Georgia by fewer than 12,000 votes while winning black voters in the state by more than 70 points against Donald Trump. This couple supports Biden staying the course but they worry he won't win. BURDETTE: In all honesty, is looking real doubtful. As a black man, I talked to several other black men, and a lot of them are voting for Trump.
MARSH (VOICEOVER): A few tables away, these young women were more optimistic.
MARSH: What comes to the top of your head, Joe Biden.
ROBYN GIPSON, GEORGIA VOTER: Our next President.
MARSH: Would you support a Kamala Harris at the top of the ticket if you did get replace?
[08:35:02]
GIPSON: I feel as though Kamala, the only thing I know her for as we get it Joe, like I don't know her for really anything else. She hasn't proven it's been four years. And I haven't seen anything.
JAYLA KORIYAN, GEORGIA VOTER: I haven't seen her bring it not in like a campaign, not any in any initiatives like just really stepping up.
MARSH (VOICEOVER): Next, it was lunch with a 44 year old cardiologists and a 51 year old political organizers, both with a message for Democrats.
ALANA MORRIS, GEORGIA VOTER: Don't rock the boat unless you have a plan to get me back to shore.
RHONDA BRIGGINS, GEORGIA VOTERS: What is the plan? I mean, you're saying step down. But then what's the ticket?
MARSH (VOICEOVER): They say this political moment punctuates America's inequities. While they believe Kamala Harris is capable of serving as president, they don't think she should replace Biden at the top of the ticket.
MARSH: You said, the America that we're in that you feel as if you have to vote for a frail white man versus a competent black woman.
MORRIS: Absolutely. There's a whole bunch of folks in the middle. And I don't believe that they're going to vote for her. And even if you go back to Hillary Clinton as a nominee, America has has shown us that it is not ready for a female leader.
BRIGGINS: Sexism in America is more prevalent than even racism in America. And so to be a black woman, you get both hits.
MARSH: So we're headed to our last stop dinner with older voters at a church in Atlanta.
GEORGE MITCHELL, GEORGIA VOTER: I'm 78 years old. In my Reitman and I'm going to vote for Joe Biden.
MARSH (VOICEOVER): Here we found the same support for Biden to remain in the race coupled with emerging frustration about calls for Biden to step aside.
MICHELLE MITCHELL, GEORGIA VOTER: The Democratic Party knew four years ago, how old Joe Biden would be in 2024. So to try to pull a stunt like this, at the 11th hour is very disappointing.
MARSH (VOICEOVER): For these seniors, age is an asset.
SAMMY GODWIN, GEORGIA VOTER: Joe Biden has been a vice president for eight years and that he'd been president for four years. That's a lot of experience.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLACKWELL: So revealing Rene. Now for the black voters who do not want Harris to replace Biden, did they say what they would do if she were to become the nominee?
MARSH: You know, Victor, I did ask them that question. And they said, if she did replace Biden at the top of the ticket, they would indeed support her and vote for her. And I also want to point out Victor. Make no mistake all those folks that you saw in the piece there. They have real concerns and criticism of Joe Biden. They just simply think changing the game with four months to go. It's simply a losing strategy. Victor.
BLACKWELL: Yes. Pragmatism might be at the front of it thoughts. Rene Marsh, thanks so much.
So what is in a name? Apparently a new job opportunity for one man in Detroit. When experience was not enough, he changed the name on his resume how that simple change has prompted a lawsuit that's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:42:42]
BLACKWELL: Have you ever considered what people assume about you when they see your name? Just your name? Well, Dwight Jackson did and now he's suing a hotel in Detroit. I see Dwight was applying for jobs. He said between January and April of this year, he applied to a few positions at the Shinola hotel, but he didn't get a single call back. And then he said wait a minute, let me see something real quick.
In April, he applied again, but this time, he made a change to his resume, his name. Instead of Dwight Jackson, he became Jon Jebrowski. And within days, the phones start ringing. Shinola wanted John to come in for an interview. Now the hotel issued a statement to CNN in response to the lawsuit. Here's part of it. "We take this allegation very seriously and do not tolerate discrimination of any kind. We're committed to fostering an inclusive workplace where everyone has the opportunity to succeed and are dedicated to building a diverse workforce that reflects the community."
With me now is Dwight Jackson and his attorney, John Marco. Welcome to you both. Dwight let me start with you. This did not start as a test of the influence of name or racial identity on hiring. You were just looking for a job right?
DWIGHT JACKSON, APPLIED FOR JOB AS "JON JEBROWSKI": I was truly just looking for a job. I had a lot of people say it was a great experiment. I wasn't experimenting or purposely trying to catch them. I was just looking for a job like you said. It was so many so much experience in the hotel industry and luxury hotels at that historical Hotel in downtown Detroit. And for me to like at least get a call back a warm call back as Dwight Jackson, it made me a little disparaging of like why. So that would just made me fill out at Jon Jebrowski to see what kind of answers like it. And like you say I ended up getting a call that same week.
BLACKWELL: And what did they say when they called back and they wanted to speak with Jon.
JACKSON: The HR lady called me she said hello, is this Jon? At first I forgot I even did it. I'm was like, oh, yeah, I am Jon. She liked me and like the experience I had and she just -- sorry my apology. She also fit -- we did an interview the next time. She set up the interview for the next time for over the phone interview and after that we did in person interview because I ended up getting another call for a couple interview.
[08:45:09]
BLACKWELL: And so you got another call for another interview with the same hotel?
JACKSON: Yes.
BLACKWELL: Okay. So let me come back to that. John, let me come to you now. You say that you see a lot of this.
JOHN MARCO, DWIGHT JACKSON'S ATTORNEY: Yes. I see this all the time. It's unfortunate. I do in civil rights my whole career. They're very tough cases, because there's often circumstantial evidence, there's not direct proof. when a company discriminates, they don't come out and say it and some of its unconscious bias or some of its conscious.
But I've had cases where I've had a hiring manager say that the president of the company made a black pile of resumes, and everybody else and then taking the resumes that sound like they're black sounding names, and throw them in the trash can. So this happens all the time. I think it's under reported.
BLACKWELL: Dwight, what did it feel like once you got a call back as Jon, but couldn't get a call back as Dwight Jackson?
JACKSON: It was very disparaging, honestly. It really did make me feel worthless, like Welcome to America. Like I always say, when people ask me how do I make you feel? Welcome to America, where people of our color has to work literally five times as hard to get to the same entry level doors, as many other cultures.
So it makes -- it really made me just feel worthless. And like, it's hard out here to get a step ahead, just because my last name or my color, or sexuality, there's a lot that goes with.
BLACKWELL: And what did you -- I assume you told them, Dwight that I'm the same person. That Dwight Jackson you ignored and this Jon Jebrowski you have so much interest in, we're the same person with very little difference on the resume. What was that conversation like?
JACKSON: It was during the second interview in for the front desk agent. And I went in, and I introduced myself as the white Jackson. Because if I wanted the job, I and you guys caught me from my experience, I'm still the same person. It shouldn't make a big difference. And she didn't question who I was even though Dwight Jackson that was not on the docket to be interviewed that day. She still brought up the Jon Jebrowski resume. So they were privy to it.
BLACKWELL: John, you touched on this a bit. But it's got to be hard to prove this case. Because, you know, maybe there was a different person looking at the Dwight Jackson resume versus the Jon Jebrowski or it might have been -- it could have been anything. It's hard to prove in court that it was because of the name, right?
MARCO: Yes. Generally, in this case, we have the smoking gun. The only thing that was changed, these resumes were completely identical, the same experience, the only thing that changed was the name. So what's in a name that should not be relevant when you're looking for someone to work with your education experience and the content of your character, not the last name that you happen to be given at birth or the color of your skin.
BLACKWELL: And Dwight, they ultimately didn't offer the job to Jon Jebrowski or Dwight Jackson, what do you want to happen now?
JACKSON: I want to bring awareness to this situation because since I opened Pandora's box, I didn't get a lot of calls, emails, DMs and everything of people who been through the same situation whether it was at another company or Shinola themselves. So that's really why I want to do is brag awareness and unfortunately, we need bills to help people these type of things. It's unethical that you will have to go through this but we have to break awareness so they don't have it ever happens again towards anyone else.
BLACKWELL: Dwight Jackson a.k.a. Jon Jebrowski and John Marco, I thank you both. I know you didn't intend for this to be an experiment or a news story or any of this. But I'm glad that we now know and that people are hearing your story. Thanks so much for your time this morning.
MARCO: Thank you, Victor.
JACKSON: Thank you guys for having me. Have a good one.
BLACKWELL: You too. So she's the most decorated track and field athlete in history. Now Allyson Felix is making a mark on the Paris Olympic Games even though she's retired from the sport. Coming up, her effort to help athletes who are mothers at the Olympics.
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BLACKWELL: A woman in Florida who was arrested in Turks and Caicos this year has now returned home. Sharitta Grier is one of five Americans accused of taking ammunition to the islands in recent months. Her attorney told CNN she got a suspended 23 weeks sentence and a $1,500 fine at a hearing on Thursday. The four other Americans have pleaded guilty to similar charges. They've been sentenced and have also returned to the U.S.
For the first time in two decades, Olympian Allyson Felix will be on the sidelines for the Summer Olympics. Now she will still make her mark on the Paris Games with a special project close to her heart. She tells CBS News that she teamed up with Pampers to open a special nursery for the children of Olympic athletes and staffers.
The nursery will be the first of its kind within an Olympic Village. Felix is the most decorated track and field athlete in history. She's also a mother of two and she says that she hopes the nursery will help other athletes balance the struggles of winning gold and winning with their children.
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ALLYSON FELIX, FORMER OLYMPIAN AND MOTHER OF TWO: I just knew how difficult it was to compete at the top level after I had my daughter and some practical things are really hard. And so when I became on the Athletes Commission of the IOC, I really want it to be that voice for athlete moms and just take away one less thing for them to worry about.
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[08:55:11]
BLACKWELL: Felix also created a child care fund in 2021. It's to support mom athletes and also recently received a $20 million grant from the Melinda French Gates Foundation to support black maternal health. Allyson Felix, I see you.
Now, if you see something or someone that I should see, tell me. I'm Victor Blackwell on socials. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'll see you back here next Saturday at 8:00 a.m. Smerconish is up after a break.
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