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First of All with Victor Blackwell

Judge Orders Teen Handcuffed For Sleeping During Court Field Trip; Chicago Preps For Week Of Politics And Possible Protests; Isaac Hayes' Family Sues Trump Over Use Of Iconic Song; Overlooked History Of The Springfield 1909 Race Riot; The Potential Impact Of Asking "What's Your Street Race?" Aired 8-9a ET

Aired August 17, 2024 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Judge who made that decision, Kenneth King, from cases temporarily over this. He's here. Plus the son of singer Isaac Hayes will be here with us. He says, former President Trump is now using a song that his father wrote without the family's permission. Owes his family millions of dollars. He's here. He'll be in studio to explain why. And here's a question, what is your street race?

I'll speak to a researcher who's calling for the census to add that question to its survey and also give people a new option of a street race. I'll tell you what that is, and we'll talk about why.

AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR: I want to know what your street race is watching. We'll be watching.

BLACKWELL: All right.

WALKER: That's a good one.

BLACKWELL: Let's start the show. Well, first of all, will Beyonce perform at the Democratic National Convention next week? That's what people want to know. I mean, okay, it's not the most important question, fine, but that would be fire. The historic moment that we know for sure we'll see is the first black and South Asian woman accepting the Democratic Party's nomination for president. That's going to happen on the final night, on Thursday.

Right now, Chicago is getting ready for a whole lot of politicos and a whole lot of protesters to flood into the city, possibly a lot of events. A pro-Palestinian protest group just won a fight with the city for permits to have a stage, sound system, portable toilets at their rally during the convention, a few downtown businesses say they have started boarding up just in case things get rowdy, and security fencing is up around the convention.

Joining us now is Christy George, Executive Director of the Chicago DNC host committee. Good morning to you. We're going to talk about things around the convention and there at the United Center. So let's start here with these businesses in downtown Chicago, boarding up.

What are Chicago police, what are you expecting and what are you all prepared for?

CHRISTY GEORGE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CHICAGO DNC HOST COMMITTEE: Absolutely. So we are expecting just an incredible four days. We know that there will be ancillary events happening all throughout downtown, as well as what's happening in the surrounding areas on protests. We do anticipate protests. We know that that is part of every political convention. But we also know is that this is a national special security event, and with that, our officers have been planning for the past year since Chicago was announced for the bid for Chicago to host the political convention, and we know that their officers have had hundreds of hours of training.

We know that secret service is the lead agency in charge for this, and they are fully prepared for any protest that will happen. We do know the parade routes are set near the United Center, but we are fully prepared to have a safe and secure convention and police are very much focused on ensuring that they are protecting individuals' First and Fourth Amendment rights.

BLACKWELL: Okay. Less than a month ago, you all were planning a convention for a different candidate. Does that change the work you do now that Kamala Harris is at the top of the ticket?

GEORGE: No, the work itself hasn't changed. What we have seen is certainly an uptick in excitement. We have recruited on nearly 17,000 volunteers, far exceeding our 12,000-person goal. So we know that people are very, very excited. We have shattered our fundraising goal as well. So people cannot wait to be here in Chicago and to see vice president Harris accept the nomination and to be the top of the ticket. It really, truly is a historic moment for our city.

This will be our 26th time hosting a political convention in our city, and we are just so happy to be a part of this moment.

BLACKWELL: There's a lot of money coming into Chicago. A lot of businesses are going to do very well. How are you making sure that those minority-owned businesses and the women-owned businesses in and around Chicago are also sharing in this benefit to the city.

GEORGE: Absolutely. So we estimate roughly 150 to 200 million in economic impact coming to the city of Chicago. But what we focused on is precisely ensuring that our small businesses, as well as our women and minority owned businesses, are getting a piece of the convention pie. So we started out very early on with a very strategic plan to focus all of our procurements on getting the word out as much as possible to our local owned businesses, as well as women and minority owned businesses. And that's resulted in a number of different successes.

We wanted to make sure that this convention did not just happen to Chicago, but with Chicago. And what that has resulted in is we have the first black-owned prime contractor for Expo services in convention history.

[08:05:11] This is an incredible accomplishment. It's a locally owned business called Show Strategy, led by Glenn Charles, and we are so proud of his work. And this accomplishment, in addition to that, we have a number of hospitality contracts that have gone to minority-owned and women- owned businesses and LGBTQ Plus businesses. We have rebel events that just hosted our volunteer appreciation rally up at Wrigley Field.

And then we have one and only events a black-owned women company that has teamed with a number of other minority-owned businesses to host our media and delegate welcome events that will be happening at Navy Pier this weekend.

So we are very excited for them. We are very excited for their inclusion, and it's going to be a fantastic convention.

BLACKWELL: Christy George, thank you so much. Good luck next week.

GEORGE: Thank you so much.

BLACKWELL: CNN special coverage of the Democratic National Convention Live from Chicago, starts Monday at 7:00 pm Eastern.

All right. This next story, its troubling people across the country. It's heartbreaking. But I want you to watch it, and then we'll talk about it.

At the center of this story is a teenage girl. She was visiting a Detroit courtroom on a field trip, and during the visit, she fell asleep. Court staff handcuffed her. She was ordered to put on a jail uniform, and that was all on the orders of a judge on the bench at the time, Kenneth King. He has now been temporarily removed from hearing cases. In a moment, we'll speak with the chief judge, William McConico, who made the call to discipline King.

But first to help set the table here, here's a breakdown of what happened from CNN affiliate in Detroit, WXYZ.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LATOREYA HILL, MOTHER OF TEEN PLACED IN HANDCUFFS: Would you want someone to treat your child like that? Would you even treat your child like that if he fell asleep in the courtroom?

RUTA ULCINAITE: Latoreya Hill is a single mother of two children, including her oldest daughter, Eva Goodman. She signed her up for a summer program with the Greening of Detroit nonprofit to keep her busy what was supposed to be an educational field trip to 36th District Court Tuesday turned into a traumatizing experience for both of them.

Judge Kenneth King not liking Eva's attitude and seeing her falling asleep, placing her in handcuffs and a jail uniform.

JUDGE KENNETH KING, 36th DISTRICT COURT: I'm thinking, maybe she needs to go to the juvenile detention facility. You do understand that we have a jail for kids? RUTA ULCINAITE: Latoreya says Eva was falling asleep because the

family does not have a permanent residence at the moment. They're just trying to make ends meet.

HILL: To belittle her in front of the whole world and her friends to make her even feel more worse about our situation. I'm a single mother. I'm trying my best. I'm doing everything that I can.

KING: You sleep at home, in your bed, not in court.

HILL: So the fact that he was talking about you go home and get in your bed. How do you know my baby got a home? Do you know my baby got a bed, her own bed that she can sleep in? She don't have that right now. So she was tired.

RUTA ULCINAITE: We spoke to judge King Tuesday, who stands by his actions to discipline the child after showing him quote, "attitude".

KING: So do I have any reservations? Do I think I was heavy-handed in what I did? No, I don't, because I'll do whatever it needs to be done to reach these kids to make sure that they don't end up in front of me. So that was my own version of Scared Straight.

HILL: You didn't scared nobody straight. You made a parent upset. You scared my child. She was nervous. Didn't even know how to act. She never been inside, no courtroom.

RUTA ULCINAITE: Latoreya frustrated with how this was all handle removed Eva from the summer program and stands up for her daughter now, after she couldn't stand up for her in that courtroom.

HILL: My baby been struggling, and she been held no tight. She been going to school. She get good grades. She don't give me no problems.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Our thanks to Ruta Ulcinaite for that report. That mother you just heard from told the station WXYZ, that Judge King offered to help mentor her daughter. She says that they're not interested.

Judge Here with us now is the man who temporarily took judge King off cases, Chief Judge, William McConnico of the 36th District Court in Detroit. Judge, thank you for being here.

CHIEF JUDGE WILLIAM MCCONICO, 36TH DISTRICT COURT IN DETROIT: Thank you for having me.

BLACKWELL: When did you -- we were just talking while that story was on. First heard what happened, saw what happened.

MCCONICO: I heard what happened on Wednesday. I was actually in the Morehouse College bookstore, and my phone was blowing up, and I saw the footage, and I next called Judge King to kind of get his version, and get an understanding of what happened. From that conversation, I launched an investigation, and I had to make the decision that it was in the best interest of the court and the best interest of Judge King that he no longer hear cases at this time at 36 District Court.

[08:10:02]

BLACKWELL: You heard what he said there, that he's not apologetic. He was trying to scare her straight. You in your statement, said that you're going to be now going through some necessary training with him to address the underlying issues that contributed to this incident. Do you know what those underlying issues are yet?

MCCONICO: Well, I believe that there needs to be some sensitivity training, cultural competence training. We have to realize in the city of Detroit that children come into our courtroom and adults carrying all kinds of issues, all kinds of baggage, and before we treat a citizen or a person a citizen with a lack of compassion, lack of empathy, kind of need to take into account that if a girl is sleeping multiple times, there may be an issue, and Judge King had good motives. Judge King is a good guy, but we're not going to handcuff, we're not going to put 15-year-old children in jumpsuits at 36 District Court.

That's not what we do. That's not what we're about. And so whatever caused Judge King to want to use those methods, we're going to stop that. We're going to work on that. And once that has occurred, we're going to welcome Judge King back to the bench and hear cases. He's been a judge for almost 18 years now, but whatever went into that thought process, that's not how we're going to treat our kids in the sea of Detroit.

BLACKWELL: Was there anything like this that happened before?

MCCONICO: No, no. I mean, this is -- no. Judge King does like to teach kids and wants them to be on the straight and narrow path and not come before him as defendants. But we have to do things a certain way. We have kids that come through our court all the time. We have a very strong internship program with kids in the Detroit Public School all the way through law students. We welcome children in, and we're not going to have children come in and fear the court system.

We want them to know you have African American judges that have come from the same circumstances that you've come through, gone to school, done the right thing, and look where we are. We want them. We want to inspire our youth, not incarcerate our youth. We don't want to intimidate our kids. We want to motivate and inspire them, and that's what we're going to do at 36th District Court.

BLACKWELL: You know why this story stood out to me not just because of the interaction between the judge and this girl, it's because I went into a courtroom on a field trip like that when I was in high school, and I can't imagine leaving there after I'm supposed to learn about what's great about the justice system, and I'm now in handcuffs and in a jail uniform.

Pew actually did a survey this summer that shows seven in 10 black adults believe the court and judicial process are designed to hold black people back a great deal or fair amount of time. What's your concern about the residual impact of this episode? MCCONICO: What I need every resident in the city of Detroit, resident

of the state of Michigan and nationwide, to know I consider our court the People's Court. We want our doors to be open. We want classrooms to come through. We want our judges to actually mentor our children, work with high school programs, be debate coaches, and take kids all the way through law school.

An incident like this would make a person apprehensive. Why would I want to bring a high school student to the court, and they may feel they're going to be in a jumpsuit or they're going to be handcuffed. That's not what we're going to do. That's why we took quick and swift action, and there's going to be intensive training, and this will not happen again at 36 District Court in Detroit.

BLACKWELL: Have you spoken with this girl or her mother?

MCCONICO: No, I am getting on the plane as soon as we finish here, and I'm going to go back to Detroit, and we are going to reach out. And what I want to do is invite the young lady back next week so she can have a different interaction. We want to that memory is going to be there, but we want to try to bring another memory. We want her to meet a cadre of judges, male and female.

We want to take her around our court. We want her to see our chambers. We want her to see and hear our stories of because we have people that have come from different backgrounds and that you can overcome having some housing insecurity or possibly being housed, and you can make it and do whatever you want to do, because she's she has that ability, and we do not want her to think of the justice system as being there to hold her down.

BLACKWELL: Chief Judge William McConico, thank you.

MCCONICO: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: All right. Black Lives Matter on NFL helmets, owners and coaches kneeling and Colin Kaepernick still can't get back into the league. What is keeping him outside of the stadium this season? We'll talk about that.

Plus, hold on, I'm suing. Why the family of Isaac Hayes wants millions of dollars from former President Trump for moments like this one.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:19:37]

BLACKWELL: A jury in Florida says the woman who shot and killed her unarmed black neighbor during a dispute is guilty of manslaughter. Ajike Owens, also known as A.J. was a mother of four. She was shot and killed last year after knocking on her neighbor's door. Well, she and that neighbor, Susan Lawrence, were in an ongoing dispute over Owens's children playing and making noise.

Now the defense claimed that Owens banged on. The neighbor's door and that Lawrence feared for her life. The prosecution said that Lawrence used racial slurs when she yelled at the children. She shot through Owens door and in front of her 10-year-old son, Lawrence now faces up to 30 years in prison.

[08:20:16]

Seven years after Colin Kaepernick became a free agent and persona non grata in the NFL, it seemed like he had a shot to get back into the game this week. Los Angeles chargers head coach Jim Harbaugh revealed that he reached out to Kaepernick about the possibility of joining the team. But then he clarified, not as a player, and probably not this season.

Kaepernick has not played in the NFL since New Year's Day 2017 and you'll remember, of course, the controversy over his sitting and then kneeling during the national anthem. Kaepernick says that he's working out and he wants to return to the league as a player.

Cari Champion is here to talk about this. She's a CNN contributor and host of the Cari Champion Show on Amazon Prime. Cari, good morning to you. So is it, what happened here? Is this not going to happen or it's just not going to happen this year?

CARI CHAMPION, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: You know, I think that's all up to Colin Kaepernick. There are so many opportunities I think, that have been presented to him that aren't necessarily playing as a quarterback, and I think it's up to him to decide if he wants to do this. I think Jim Harbaugh is an excellent coach. I think he is a good friend to Colin as well. He has a history of hiring his former players.

You talk about the last time Colin Kaepernick played, it was under Jim Harbaugh, and he wanted to have him on the team, because he knows what he can contribute to other players. I still believe, Colin still believes he can play as a quarterback in the NFL, and I just don't believe that opportunity will ever come for him.

BLACKWELL: So let's talk about what's changed in the NFL, because when Colin Kaepernick was kneeling during the anthem, this was pre-George Floyd. It was pre this so-called reckoning with race in the U.S. The NFL has allowed Black Lives Matter and social justice messages on the helmets. Hundreds of millions of dollars over 10 years donated to social justice causes, but still, that commitment, for some reason, has blackballed Kaepernick.

Am I oversimplifying it that just one does not match the other?

CHAMPION: You know what Victor you -- the truth is, we all understand being the first is the difficult point, right? Like when you're the first city, you're going to have to deal with all of the things. So let me explain what I mean by that. Colin was the very first person to raise this awareness in such a global way because of the way in which he did it with America's favorite pastime, to me, which is football.

And so, of course, he was blackballed, and he settled with the league. I will remind you he did settle with the league. We don't know the particulars of that, but there is that rare thing where you can sue your employer and then go back and work for them. I don't know where that works or happens, or how that happens. It could who knows?

It's up to these owners if they want to open up the door and let Colin play. But since Colin has brought that attention, and I like to call him an accidental activist, because he just wanted to stand up for what he thought was right, but he's opened the door for the lead to realize that they definitely have a race issue and it should be addressed.

So as you point out, yes, all of these things have happened since Colin Kaepernick has left the league, but I do believe these owners only care about our bottom line, and that especially in the state of the country that we are in right now, it's so divisive right there are so many people telling you to pick hide. So if he were to actually have an owner give him an opportunity just to sit on a roster, it could affect the bottom line. And I think these owners are more worried about money as opposed to doing the right thing, because this is a business.

BLACKWELL: Jordan Chiles still fighting for that bronze medal. It's also now been awarded officially to the Romanian gymnast. She said the decision feels unjust and comes as a significant blow, not just to me, but to everyone who has championed my journey. I poured my heart and soul into the sport, and so proud to represent my culture and my community, my country. I should say. Where does this go now?

CHAMPION: You know what? It's unfortunate, and it's so disappointing. And here we are pointing out a system that just doesn't work right as well. So for Jordan and the other athlete from Romania, this is embarrassing. So in real-time, they made this decision to strip one athlete and give the other, and we watched this incredible moment on the podium, and then they decide they didn't get it right again, and then they decide to give it back to Jordan, and then they don't know if they're going to give it to the other athlete.

The IOC, which is the International Olympic Committee, has a quote, unquote, "independent agency" which is known as the Court of Arbitration of Sport, CAS. And the Court of Arbitration of Ssport should have some sort of checks and balances in place, Victor, to make sure that this does not happen in real-time. It's not as if they haven't done this before.

[08:25:05]

The Olympics happen every four years. Oftentimes, these athletes, these coaches, petition for a different position, a different medal, a different time, and there are no checks and balances in places. And I think she can fight this out as long as she wants, but I don't know if she's able to get her medal.

BLACKWELL: Cari Champion, thank you for talking us through it.

CHAMPION: All right, Victor. Thank you so much for having me.

BLACKWELL: Sure. The son of Isaac Hayes says it took decades for his family to get back his father's copyrights. Now his next fight is with Donald Trump over "Hold on. I'm coming." Isaac Hayes, the third is here, explained next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:30:16]

BLACKWELL: The family of the late singer, songwriter Isaac Hayes wants Donald Trump to stop using his song at his rallies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: And that's "Hold On I'm Coming" used as Trump's exit music just last week. Now, Sam and Dave performed it, but Isaac Hayes co- wrote it. The Hayes estate warned Trump and filed a complaint last night. The family also wants Trump to pay for the times it's already been used.

Here with me now is Isaac Hayes III. Also with us, the family's attorney, James Walker, good morning to you both. Let me just start with before we talk about the legal element, when you see that video of Donald Trump, so called dancing to that song. What do you feel?

ISAAC HAYES III, SUING TRUMP FOR USE OF FATHER'S MUSIC: I -- yes -- I don't want that song associated with Donald Trump. I don't want people to hear, "Hold On I'm Coming" and think of Donald Trump because of the nature and the character of the person that he is.

BLACKWELL: Yes. So this is not political for you?

HAYES III: Not at all.

BLACKWELL: Not at all?

HAYES III: No.

BLACKWELL: It's lucrative to own the copyrights for these.

HAYES III: Yes.

BLACKWELL: You've come up with a number of how much this is -- is worth to you? How many times do you have -- you counted that it's been used, that copyrights been infringed?

HAYES III: So we had 134 uses in total. That also depends on licensing and stuff like that, but Trump had been told to not use a song sometime in 2022. And every time I hear about it, I'll post on my father's social media account let people know we're not happy with it. So it started in May of 2022 and then as recently as last week, which is why had ring James in, because obviously the message wasn't getting through.

BLACKWELL: Yes. James, talk to me about the legal fight here. You've reached out, as Isaac said in 2022, what are you asking for in addition to his stopping using the song?

JAMES WALKER, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF ISAAC HAYES: We're asking for a couple things. We're asking, first for him to issue a statement confirming that we never allowed him to use it and that he has no affiliation with Isaac Hayes or the estate of Isaac Hayes. We're also asking a judge to give us a permanent injunction, as well as pay us for all the uses.

And I want to make it clear to your listeners, if we were to take this fully, fully to trial with the jury, Donald Trump and Team Trump, they will be looking at $150,000 per use, and he's used it over 100 times, and we're still determining which of those uses came after we terminated his right. Originally, he had a blanket license, like a venue has, but it then it was ultimately terminated, but he continued to use it, being Donald Trump, even after he was told not to use it. He and his team continued to use it.

And I don't know if it was him, Presidential Committee-elect Donald Trump, Inc., I don't know who it was, but they continue to use it, and they don't realize now you have to pay for it.

BLACKWELL: Has there been, James, any response from Donald Trump or the Trump campaign?

WALKER: We have one lawyer who sent me an e-mail, but I've called him countless times to try to discuss. He was under the impression they have permission based on the contents of his e-mail. However, no, they have not spoken to me. They have not sent anything in writing. I've repeatedly asked that they provide me a copy of this alleged license that they have to use the song.

And I want to point out, what's brilliant about Isaac Hayes is we've had 15 artists who've asked Donald Trump not to use their music. But Isaac Hayes being a proponent of fan base and teaching people how to protect their rights. He actually is filing a suit. He's probably one of the first of any that I know of who's actually said, no, I'm not just going to warn you, but I'm going to take it to a courtroom.

BLACKWELL: Yes, because Isaac --

WALKER: And the guys on the other end --

BLACKWELL: I apologize for jumping in there. Isaac, there are some people who either just don't want to be bothered with the fights.

HAYES III: Yes.

BLACKWELL: Why is it so important to you?

HAYES III: Well, like I said before, like I'm the -- I'm the brother to seven sisters, seven black women. Donald Trump has been found liable of sexual abuse. He says horrible things about women, just horrible things about Vice President Harris. And I know my father would not want Donald Trump, a man that speaks like that about women, and especially black women, using his music to run a campaign. So it's not anything really to do with, like I said, political. It's more to do with the fact of the individual and the character of Donald Trump, that we don't want to associate it with our brand and our family.

BLACKWELL: All right. Isaac Hayes III, James Walker, thank you both -- go ahead go ahead, James, you got 15, 20 seconds.

WALKER: Real quickly, Victor, real quickly. The -- the irony is, you have a man like Donald Trump who made this living by his father given him a great estate, and now he will not allow Isaac Hayes to joy -- enjoy the estate that his father gave him. That's the irony here.

[08:35:09]

BLACKWELL: Good point. Good point.

HAYES III: Yes.

BLACKWELL: James Walker, thank you very much. And I should also say we didn't get a response from the Trump campaign either when we acquired -- inquired about this new complaint that's been filed just yesterday. Thank you both.

Another part of American history that's not being widely taught was just acknowledged by President Biden and a community that has been trying to tell its story for decades. We'll share it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:40:15]

BLACKWELL: We learned in school that Springfield, Illinois is the home of Abraham Lincoln, but not many people learned this about Springfield. Let me take you to August 14th, 1908, a mob of 5,000 white people gathered outside a jail demanding that two black men be released to them. The police secretly moved them to another jail about 60 miles away.

Now, once the mob found out, they took out their anger on the black and Jewish neighborhoods. In the early morning of August 15th, they came to the home of a black barber named Scott Burton. They beat him unconscious. They dragged him from his porch to the front of a saloon, and they lynched him. This is a photo of his barber shop. Forty black homes and businesses were destroyed nearby.

Now, the mob took a little break for a few hours. Two to 3,000 black people then rushed out of Springfield. The National Guard came in. A lot of black families held up in the building where the guard set up. And when their break was over, the mob went after a wealthy and well- connected black man named William Donegan. They took him from his home. The guard chased them before they could lynch him, but Donegan died at St. John's Hospital.

Let's bring you now to six weeks ago. Sonya Massey died at that same hospital. You might remember that she was shot by a sheriff's deputy in her home. Her family says that Sonya Massey was a descendant of William Donegan. And the NAACP, they can trace their history back to Donegan too. The violence in Springfield led directly to their founding in 1909. And despite all that history, a lot of people say they've never heard any of this. They weren't taught this in school.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANAY HAMMONS, RESIDENT SPRINGFIELD ILLINOIS: 2008 I was sitting in my Illinois history class at the University of Illinois, Champaign Urbana and my teacher or professor, asked us, how many of you grew up in Illinois? About 200 plus students, half of us raised our hands. He says, how many of you have heard Springfield race riot? I look around, there was maybe 10 of us. That shouldn't happen. If half the class is from Illinois, then at least half the class should have heard about this riot until the day we die.

So I was taking the part of making this a national monument so that we can continue to share the story that this community has been trying to share for years with the nation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: A buried part of American history, the connection to Sonya Massey, President Biden made note of all of that when he signed a proclamation this week to designate a new national monument in Springfield. Legislation from Congress to do it has been stalled, so he took action on his own.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're allowing history to be written what happened, so our children, our grandchildren, everybody understands what happened and what could still happen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

BLACKWELL: And matter of fact, something happened here, similarly recently. I know this may not seem significant to most Americans, but it's an important, it's important, important, important. And then we walk by this area and know what happened because it may happen again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Now, the White House says this national monument will protect 1.57 acres of federal land, including the foundations of five homes that were never rebuilt. That's all just blocks from the home of Abraham Lincoln.

[08:44:02]

Coming up, if you don't identify as black or white, should picking brown as your race be an option? I'll speak with one researcher who says the census should take into account street race.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: If you didn't know me and you just saw me on the street, would it be clear to you that I'm black? Probably. Right? But in a diverse country, not everyone's race is immediately obvious. Look at this, on the draft version of the 2030 census, the federal government recently added new answer options to the question of race and ethnicity, Latino will be an option, and then you can choose Cuban, Colombian, Puerto Rican, for example.

Now, Latino is not a race. Some experts argue there's important data that the government is still missing, so a new report out of UCLA calls for adding another question, street race. Dr. Nancy Lopez is the author of the report, and she's co-founder of the Institute for the Study of Race and Social Justice at the University of New Mexico. Good morning to you. Thank you for being on. First question, what is a street race?

DR. NANCY LOPEZ, AUTHOR OF UCLA REPORT ON "STREET RACE": Thank you for having me. I'm so happy to be here with you to share how we can improve our federal and other data collection on race and ethnicity. So street race is asking people to reflect on if you were out in public, what race do you think others who do not know you would automatically assume you are based on what you look like?

And that is referring to not just skin color, but also facial features and hair texture and other physical characteristics. And why is this important? Because race is not simply about how you identify, that's absolutely important, but it's also about how others see you when you show up to look for an apartment or you access healthcare in an emergency room. So we do need to collect more than one measure of race, and street race would be a major improvement.

[08:50:31]

BLACKWELL: And so let's talk more about this, because what you do with that information is what's most important. To learn the differences, if there are people are discriminated against based on features, based on complexion, and simply saying, here is how I identify. Does it get to all of those answers? Is that what the -- the purpose is?

LOPEZ: Absolutely. So the social science research is clear, if you add more than one measure of race, you make visible inequities that would other -- otherwise remain invisible. For instance, if we look at health outcomes, something like mental health, differences are going to become more visible when you have more than one measure, when you're not simply asking how you identify. There's a saying in many Latinx homes, (Speaking in Foreign Language). Race has a visual component. Ethnicity is about your cultural heritage.

Those are two different questions, and they require different questions, just as sexuality and gender, income and wealth. Those are different constructs, so you absolutely need to have separate questions. And as one of my colleagues of demographer who retired from the Census Bureau, Dr. Howard Hogan, says, if you don't know what you're measuring, any question will do so these data are crucial for understanding discrimination and housing, employment, healthcare, et cetera.

BLACKWELL: So let me ask you, your study also recommends adding brown as a street race category, not just for Latinos, but for Pacific Islanders, South Asians, Southeast Asians as well, Middle Easterners, North Africans, Arab Americans, why? LOPEZ: Because, again, we have used this measure, not only in National Survey on Latinos, that included publications in the sociology of race and ethnicity critical public health, but the Urban Institute actually conducted what, to our knowledge, is the first empirical study looking at health and well-being. And we included Brown as an option for all people answering the survey, and we found distinct differences in outcomes and inequities that only become visible when that becomes an option.

And according to that survey, one in five Latinos identified with that category. And again, we make visible inequities that would otherwise remain invisible if we simply ask about how people identify.

BLACKWELL: Dr. Nancy Lopez explaining street race, I appreciate the time, and it actually makes a lot of sense. I thank you for explaining it to us.

LOPEZ: Yes. And I just wanted to add that although the Office of Management recently changed the way in which they're collecting great state I call it statistical gas lighting, because they're saying that we are not conflating race and ethnicity. We're just making them co- equal, but then asking about --

BLACKWELL: Yes.

LOPEZ: -- race and ethnicity the same question, but you can still add additional questions. In other words, even federal agencies can add a street race question --

BLACKWELL: Yes.

LOPEZ: -- in the American community survey, the current population survey. And of course, any organization is not bound by the federal guidelines, so it's incre -- incredibly important for us if we care about equity minded policy.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

LOPEZ: And a more union for everyone.

BLACKWELL: Thank you, doctor.

[08:54:04]

Coming up why kids in Kentucky are asking their school district a crucial question through a hook I know you will be singing all morning.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLACKWELL: Man, later for kids about some students in Kentucky are on another level, challenging their school district through music and dropping a new summer ear worm.

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BLACKWELL: Hey. Listen, the group is The Real Young Prodigys. They're from the Jefferson County School District in Louisville, WAVE reports, the district cut bussing to most magnet and traditional schools this year, they've been dealing with a shortage of bus drivers and transportation delays. Families have been upset. You see, the kids have been upset. So they shot this music video with the help of an organization called Hip Hop N2 Learning. Its founders say their mission is to give kids a platform to use hip hop and music videos to make positive changes in their community.

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NYREE CLAYTON-TAYLOR, CO-FOUNDER, HIP HOP N2 LEARNING: A few months ago, they said they wanted to write this song about bussing in their own way, and that's what leads us here today.

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ANTONIO TAYLOR, CO-FOUNDER, HIP HOP N2 LEARNING: Music is their language. This is the way that they tell their stories. And we're just so proud of our students that they can express themselves in their own way when it comes to real situations that affect them.

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TAPPER: To The Real Young Prodigys, I see you.

Thank you for joining me today. I'll see you back here next Saturday at 8:00 a.m. Eastern. "Smerconish" is up next.