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First of All with Victor Blackwell

Plea For Univ. Of South Carolina To Cancel Harris "Roast"; CA Task Force Leader: No Vote On Key Bills "A Complete Betrayal"; Daniels: Every Black Person Knows An "Alberta"; Sen. Steven Bradford (D-CA), Is Interviewed About Reparations Advocates Disappointed After Failure To Pass Key Bills In California; Mixed Reaction To Viral Moments From "The Deliverance"; Black Designers Getting A Boost At New York Fashion Week. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired September 07, 2024 - 8:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, first of all, with Victor is coming up next. What do you have?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: We've got a packed show. And one question we're going to approach here is, does the Free Speech defense ever go too far? Some say it does.

The University of South Carolina says that they cannot cancel an event billed as a roast of Kamala Harris. Organizers include a founder of the proud boys. Advertisements for the event are vile. The NAACP says that they're worried about potential violence. I'll speak with one leader who is pleading with the school to shut this down.

Plus, Advocates for reparations say they feel betrayed over a vote that did not happen in California. One of the authors of the legislation is here to respond, and later, who is the Alberta in your life? According to director Lee Daniels Glen closes character in the deliverance is a part of the fabric of the black community, and that's not even the most viral thing coming from this movie. We're going to talk about it a lot coming up.

WALKER: Sounds riveting. Have a great show.

BLACKWELL: All right. Thanks so much. Let's do it.

Well, first of all, we are three days out from the Harris-Trump debate. It's really hard to predict what's going to happen tomorrow, much less on Tuesday, but we will see something we have never seen before. A black woman on the presidential debate stage as the nominee of a major party.

Think about what you will, or the politics, but a country that has never elected a black woman governor may soon elect a black woman president. The precedents we do have are those infamous moments from former President Trump's debate in 2016 seeming to lurk behind Hillary Clinton at one debate, calling her a nasty woman at another. Trump and Harris, they have never met, but he has not hesitated to attack her race and her intelligence on the campaign trail. Will that talk make it to the debate stage, and will it work for him?

There are not many black women who have been on similar political stages, but we brought together three women who have for conversation that I at least have never seen. Carol Moseley Braun ran for the Democratic nomination for president in 2004. Here she was on that Democratic primary debate stage. Ron and Harris are the only black women ever elected to the Senate.

Val Demings tried to change that. She ran for Senate in Florida in 2022 against Republican Marco Rubio and Deidre DeJear debated Republican Kim Reynolds as the Democratic nominee for governor in Iowa, and Deidre DeJear, Val Demings and Carol Moseley Braun all join me now.

Thank you first for being with me. I want to talk about the moment and the history in a moment, but first the job, and let me start with you, Representative Demings. Going into the first debate between President Biden former President Trump, we knew what the job was for. One it was to dispel concerns about mental capacity. The other was about temperament. What is job one for vice president Harris on Tuesday night? What does she have to do? Above all else.

VAL DEMINGS, (D) FLORIDA SENATE CANDIDATE IN 2022: Let me say good morning. Hello to all of you, and it's just great to be here. Look, job one is to seal the deal on convincing the American people that she is the right person for the job right time. Look, I'm sure Vice President Harris already knows that they're going to talk about her hair, they're going to talk about her clothes, they're going to talk about her makeup. Certainly going to throw in that she's unintelligent, to try to make her feel that she does not belong there.

But yes, she does belong there because she is the Democratic nominee, and she needs to stay focused on why she's running, and that is to give every American, every American, a fair shot in this country. And so I do believe, if she stays focused, introduce herself to the American people, she'll be fine. A

BLACKWELL: Ambassador Moseley Braun, the Republicans who called Vice President Harris, the DEI candidate, remember that from maybe six weeks ago. They stopped doing that because it didn't work. Her poll numbers have gone up. She's raised hundreds of millions of dollars. Historic figures. Is this a different moment in presidential politics in our country than 20 years ago, when you were on a debate stage, or things fairly similar to that?

CAROL MOSELEY BRAUN, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE IN 2004: No, things are very different. 20 years makes a big difference in the attitudes and the way that people analyze and percolate the questions and the issues and responses. Let me say about that I'm delighted to be here. Thank you for having me, and thanks to your producers for putting up with me trying to make this connection, because I'm halfway across the world. So I'm really delighted that you guys have gone so you know, gone so far to try to make it possible for me joining this morning. But at the outset of Ms. Harris, Senator Harris is going vice president. Harris is going to have to establish herself as a credible candidate for president, and she is. [08:05:11]

She's a brilliant woman. You almost couldn't do any better than her. And I'm just delighted that my party, Democratic Party, has nominated her as its nominee for this position. She will do a fantastic job. I'm convinced. She is as highly qualified and as really focused as anybody can ever be. And so I just hope that that's what comes out in the debates. I think it will.

You know, we don't know what Donald Trump is going to do, and he may have to, you know, complete idiot on the stage as he gets done. He me tried to distract, distract from the conversation and make her look and belittle her in every possible.

BLACKWELL: All right. We're having a bit of an audio problem with you. I will let our control room deal with that Ambassador. But let me come now to Deidre DeJear.

There have been these concerns, and I've heard it from a bit of what Ambassador Mosley Braun was saying. She talked about this misogynoir (ph), the intersection of racism and sexism. But if you look at the fundraising numbers, Deidre $361 million last month in August, 400 million cash on hand, 650 million since the start of the campaign in late July. There are some people saying, misogynoir, sexism, racism. What are you talking about? What do you tell those people who look at those numbers and discount concerns about any of those, sexism, racism, discrimination in some way.

DEIDRE DEJEAR, (D) CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR IN IOWA IN 2022: You know, what we will see on Tuesday is a stark comparison, one individual who was fighting for his own freedom and another individual who was fighting for the freedom of all Americans. And Kamala Harris not only embodies the pathway to life, liberty and happiness, but she is steadfast on doing it for the rest of our country.

We cannot discount the misogyny. We cannot discount the toxicity, the trauma, the trepidation that trauma brings to -- that Trump brings to the table. And Americans are standing up with their resources, and they're standing up with their organizing to ensure that democracy is going to consistently be a part of our conversation, and we're going to consistently fight for a more perfect union.

I could not be more proud of our country at this point in time and seriously making a decision with our resources and our time to commit to democracy and fight for this, for our future, because it's not just now that we're fighting for it's our children and our children's children. And so that is just yet an example of how motivated people are.

We have to continue to dig deep 60 days out. We have to continue to put forth the effort. And it's showing. It's showing. Its evidence. That's what it is.

BLACKWELL: Representative Demings, let's talk about issues now. And Deidre mentioned our children. We here in Georgia, not far from Atlanta, there was that school shooting that happened earlier this week, and after it, the Republican nominee for vice president, JD Vance, said this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. JD VANCE, (R) VICE PRESIDENT NOMINEE: Clearly, strict gun laws is not the thing that is going to solve this problem. What is going to solve this problem? And I really do believe this is, look, I don't like this. I don't like to admit this. I don't like that. This is a fact of life. But if you're if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets, and we have got to bolster security at our schools.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: You're also a former police chief. What reaction would you heard there from Senator Vance?

DEMINGS: Well, let me just say this. As elected officials, police chief, any person in public office, our primary responsibility is the safety and well-being of the people that we serve. And surely, if we cannot keep children safe in the classroom, then we have a real problem. And quite frankly, I think Senator Vance's words are just indicative of, or really just shines a light on the clear contrast that we have in this race.

We have one person, Vice President Harris, who is interested in keeping our children safe in the classroom, keeping guns out of dangerous hands, helping our seniors, paying more wages, establishing a better economy, all of the things that the American people care about. And then, quite frankly, on the other side, we have one man whose number one goal is to stay out of prison, and I believe on debate night that the American people are going to clearly see that this is not about Republicans, democrats or independents, that they have a clear choice in this race, and that choice is Vice President Harris.

BLACKWELL: Deidre this week, former president Trump gave a speech at the Economics Club of New York, and he was asked a question about prioritizing child care and affordability of child care. You've just been named to head up the largest affordable housing community in Iowa. I want you to listen to what he says, and then we'll talk about it.

[08:10:21]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Have to stay with child care. I want to stay with child care, but those numbers are small relative to the kind of economic numbers that I'm talking about, including growth, but growth also headed up by what the plan is that I just that, I just told you about. We're going to be taking in trillions of dollars, and as much as child care is talked about as being expensive. It's relatively speaking, not very expensive compared to the kind of numbers we'll be taking it --

BLACKWELL: Objectively, he didn't give an answer on how he's going to make child care more affordable. But how effective is a Harris rebuttal, considering child care, on average, has gone up nearly 15% since 2020?

DEJEAR: The most important rebuttal is that she sees people for who they are. She sees America. She understands the issues Americans are facing, whether it's child care, whether it's housing, whether it's access to maternal health care, and the Biden-Harris administration has already worked towards tax credits for our children, have already worked towards increasing opportunities for housing, and they're continuing to do that work.

The rebuttal is her plan. The rebuttal is her vision. The rebuttal is, what does she set forth for this American country when she says that each and every American family should only have to work one job to make ends meet? She's not saying that because it sounds good. She's saying it because she's insistent on devising plans to ensure that that happens.

We clearly need a president who sees the American people for who they are, and who is insistent on ensuring that they have access to these things, and that costs go down and that things are made -- made more affordable, so that folks can achieve that American dream.

BLACKWELL: Ambassador Moseley Braun, I think we fixed your audio issues. So this next question comes to you. We've got 59 days until the votes are counted. We're only six weeks into Harris at the top of the ticket. Does this shortened period help her, or does it hurt her?

BRAUN: Well, let me say at the outset that we have come this far is a great tribute to our process and to where our democracy is working, and so I think she will do fine, and whether it helps or hurts her is, frankly, not a question any of us can answer. We won't know until the votes are counted. And I say that to people all the time. The fact of the matter is, with all the polling and all the prognosticating going on, the real answer is, election day. How many people come out and how many people vote for her and where?

Remember, we've got Electoral College to deal with. And that's the lesson that I think came out of the Hillary Clinton run with you. Have to be cognizant of the Electoral College math. If you're going to win, you can win the popular vote as Hillary Clinton did win the popular vote, but that will not make you president. And I think we can elect Kamala Harris as president if we are focused in on what is the end goal here. The end goal is to get Electoral College votes so that she wins. And I think, I think that can happen.

BLACKWELL: Well, let me say to all three of you, this was a dream of mine. That happened came up a couple of days ago to get a black woman who stood on the stage to debate for President, for Senate, for governor. And I thank all of you for making it happen. Carol Moseley Braun, Val Demings and Deidre DeJear, thank you.

BRAUN: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: And remember to follow CNN for complete coverage and analysis before and after Tuesday's debate, the ABC News presidential debate, simulcast airs at nine Eastern here on CNN.

The NAACP says the University of South Carolina must shut down a planned event if the school cares about its black students. The university president and the governor say they won't do it. Plus California's effort to make reparations a reality was supposed to be a model for the nation. Why advocates now say they were betrayed?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [08:19:03]

BLACKWELL: The University of South Carolina has no plans to cancel an event being billed as a roast of Vice President Harris. I can't even show you the ad for the event because it's sexually explicit, and really I don't want to, because it's vile. This so called roast and the roast masters are proud boys founder Gavin McInnes and far right provocateur Milo Yiannopoulos.

The president of the NAACP, wants this stopped. He says, if South Carolina University's leadership values their black students, it's only right. They shut this event down. We reached out to the university. They pointed us to a statement from the school's President and Board of Trustees, the chair there, they said, in part, "Censoring even the most hateful individuals and groups does not solve the problems we face in our society, and instead provides them with a platform to win more publicity and support because their message was silenced. As Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis wrote almost a century ago in a vigorous defense of free speech, the solution to fighting offensive speech is more speech, not enforced silence."

[08:20:07]

South Carolina State Senator Tamika Isaac Devine joins us. She's written a letter of her own, also asking the university to cancel this event.

I thank you for being with me this morning. These two roastmasters, Milo Yiannopoulos and Gavin McInnes. McInnes founder, proud boys, we know that several of their leaders were sentenced, arrested for their role in January 6 monopolies, beloved by the alt-right for his attacks on Islam, on Black Lives Matter, feminism resigned from Breitbart after remarks seemingly sympathetic to adult sexual relationships with children. What is the message you believe is sent by the university by this going forward?

TAMIKA ISAAC DEVINE, (D) SOUTH CAROLINA STATE SENATE: Good morning, Victor, and thank you so much for having me. I believe that the message that's being sent by allowing a platform for these people is that we are condoning speech that is offensive to a lot of people.

I do understand the university's position, but I also think that we have to send a very clear message to all students that we rep, that we encourage diversity and that we support diverse views, but we also will not condone hate speech or things that will offend others.

BLACKWELL: And so you believe this goes beyond just offensive speech, because obviously, offensive speech is protected. You believe what? What's the consequence or implication outside of a room of people who are just saying vile things to one another for a laugh?

DEVINE: Well, I think what it does is it encourages an environment that makes marginalized communities feel more marginalized. University of South Carolina has done a lot in the last couple years as long as far as reconciliation with their racial history. They have done monuments celebrating black history and the role that African Americans have had in the university. And so I do think that this takes us back a little bit at promoting and giving a platform to people not only that have said about things, but have promoted violence, like on January 6.

BLACKWELL: And you believe that allowing this goes on undermines that work that the university has done.

DEVINE: Well, what I do understand the freedom of speech, but what I think that the university has an opportunity to do now is to show not only do we not condone this, but we will make our university an environment that promotes inclusivity. So I'm encouraging the university to have another event that brings together the diverse groups that are opposed to this event and bring more attention to that. We need to silence what's happening at this roast and bring more attention to it. And allowing people to use the university for that platform is not good. But having another platform that encourages not only people to come and vote and register, but to educate themselves and promote diversity is where we need to be going now.

BLACKWELL: The university and again, the image, and I know saying, describing it this way is unlikely, unfortunately, going to lead some people to go look for it. But it's a vile image this advertisement. The university has condemned it and the language used on it, we heard from the President of the University and South Carolina Governor Henry McMaster on why they will not call for this event to be canceled. Here's what they said.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL AMIRIDIS, PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH CAROLINA: What they say again, it's first amendment rights, and it's not the endorsement of the universities, the students we invited them.

GOV. HENRY MCMASTER, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: Unless there's some truth threat, unless there's a real danger involved, which you probably will not know until it gets started, then the university has no right to cancel it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: We've also heard from the White House, the Press Secretary has talked about this. Obviously the governor there, short of cancelation, what are you calling on them to do? Is it just this counter event, voter registration? What do you want them to do, if not ended?

DEVINE: Well, I think the University and I've had lots of conversations with universal leadership. I think what we're looking at is using this an opportunity to show how where we are in this country, and, most importantly, where we can go. And these students are fired up, and they are participating not just in the electoral process, but educating each other about diversity and representing diversity.

So I think that we can use this as a long-term opportunity to promote diversity. Our state is one of two states that doesn't have hate crime legislation. How do we encourage our legislature to pass hate crimes legislation? How do we make sure that we have good judges on the bench that will help us long term? So I think that this can be an opportunity for us to really engage young people long term in the democracy, saving democracy in our country.

[08:25:02]

BLACKWELL: South Carolina State Senator Tamika Isaac Devine, thank you so much for your time this morning.

If reparations ever became reality in this country, it was thought that California would provide the model. But why there's now new doubts it will ever happen?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAMILAH MOORE, CHAIR, CALIFORNIA REPARATIONS TASK FORCE: What we saw was a complete betrayal by the California Legislative Black Caucus against their own constituents. They chose to prioritize their ego and their own self-interest over the people that they. Claim to serve. The next step for us is to keep pushing to hold the California Legislative Black Caucus accountable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: A complete betrayal that's the leader of California's Reparation Task Force reacting to a decision by the state legislature to not vote on two bills that advocates hoped would be the foundation of a model program for the nation. One of the bills would have created a state agency to oversee reparations efforts. The other would create a new state fund to pay for it all. So what now?

State Senator Steven Bradford is the vice chair of California's Legislative Black Caucus and an author of the reparations legislation. Sir, thank you for being with me. And you sponsor the bill to get the Bruce Beach land back to the family it was taken from 100 years ago. You've been out front on reparations. What happened here? Why -- why did these -- these bills not fail, but not even get a vote?

SEN. STEVEN BRADFORD (D-CA), VICE CHAIR, CALIFORNIA LEGISLATIVE BLACK CAUCUS: I wish I could answer that question. It's probably the greatest disappointment in my 26 years of being an elected official, to totally be blindsided by these bills that had no opposition, had no amendments to him, had sailed through the Senate with no problem, had sailed all the way through the assembly, getting out of assembly probes with no amendments and set on the assembly floor ready to be taken up through three -- for three weeks. And we had planned to take the bills up all last Wednesday, and at the last minute, we got all these red flags, all we're -- we're fear -- afraid of a veto. And -- and we did a vote count. We hit the votes for the bills. The bills were in no trouble to get off the floor.

BLACKWELL: SB 1403, would have created the California American Freedmen Affairs Agency, a local outlets report that Governor Newsom tried to replace that with -- with further study, after years of study up to this point. To what degree, if any, do you believe Governor Newsom is responsible for the fate of these bills?

BRADFORD: Well, we did receive amendments last Monday, the last week of session from his office. And it did pretty much take away the intent of what we were trying to do and stand -- standing up an independent agency. His proposed amendments or his administration's oppose amendments would have placed the so called agency under the CSU or California State Universities, and let them do further research on what lenient should be, what -- how we would move forward and dispersing reparations.

That's what the task force had done. We had spent two years there. So that was a red flag, and I refused to take those amendments. And, you know, but at no time that the governor's administration threatened a veto. They just said they had concerns about standing up agency during this budget deficit year.

BLACKWELL: During her time in the Senate, then Senator Kamala Harris, representing California, supported, she said, some form of reparations. I want to play what you said. This was in the run for the nomination in 2020 it's actually from 2019 about reparations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee has proposed a bill to form a commission to study how to do reparations. If you're elected President would you sign that bill if it came across your desk?

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When I am elected president, I will sign that bill.

(LAUGHS)

(CHEERING)

(CHANTING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They call that turn the beat around.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: That was 2019. No such commitment this cycle would you like to hear that commitment from Vice President Harris?

BRADFORD: Well, I would love to hear that commitment first from California, because we've taken it all the way to the finish line. But I understand she's running for, you know, president. She has to definitely be careful in where she goes. But yes, a commitment to reparations would be definitely welcomed and wanted all across this nation, for sure.

BLACKWELL: If you couldn't get it done in California, what are the implications for other states that were watching California as a leader here?

BRADFORD: I'm very concerned. I've been contacted by colleagues all across the country. I'm part of National Black Caucus of state legislators, and we had state legislators programming with California since the beginning of the year, tracking our legislation and wanting to model what we were doing here in California.

So it has been a tremendous setback to many of those folks who were hoping California would be that North Star, would be that blueprint on what reparations could look like. And I know there are concerns, because I've heard from already, we can't do it in California. It probably will, you know, cause great concerns and consternation for other states to say, can we get this thing done?

BLACKWELL: All right, California State Senator Steven Bradford, thanks so much.

[08:34:58]

The new freshman class is the first to arrive on campus since the Supreme Court got rid of affirmative action, what new data this week shows us about the impact on diversity that may also be helping HBCUs.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: A new data about the effects the end of affirmative action is having on college admissions, more information coming in. We started reporting on this a couple of weeks ago, as schools started releasing enrollment numbers. This week, more universities and colleges are sharing their numbers. The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill was one of the two schools at the center of the Supreme Court case that led to a ban on affirmative action. The number of incoming black freshman is down nearly 3 percent compared to last year.

[08:40:24]

The school also reported drops in enrollment among Hispanic and Native American students. Officials who are involved in admissions, they say that it's too soon to see trends from the Supreme Court decision. On the other hand, administrators at historically black colleges and universities are saying the ruling is directly responsible for the record increases in enrollment in some of their campuses.

Howard University, HU, undergraduate admissions reported that the applicant pool for this fall's incoming freshman increased by 12 percent to a record 37,000 students. Florida's Bethune-Cookman University announced a 6 percent increase in applications and an amazing 24 percent increase in enrollment this year. Some HBCU loot -- lead -- leaders say that black students realize that they are personally impacted by the ruling. And they're choosing campus environments where they feel welcomed and supported/

Now the overall numbers of students attending HBCUs, that's on the rise. But the percentage of young black men going to college, to those colleges, is on the decline. Listen to this. As a new study that says the percentage of HBCU students who are black males has dropped down to 26 percent. That's down from 31 percent 20 years ago and 38 percent in 1976 when they started counting.

A bill that could have made undocumented immigrants eligible for first time home buying loans is no longer moving forward in California. This would have been done under a state program. But Governor Gavin Newsom vetoed the proposal. He cited limited funding in the annual budget for housing assistance programs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): Was sent to me was a program that had no money, and it was expanding eligibility to a bill to a program that had no money, seemed rather curious to me. So thought it was unnecessary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: The bill was being attacked by Republicans nationally. Former President Donald Trump said he banned mortgages for undocumented immigrants. The reality is, undocumented immigrants only make up a tiny por -- portion of the mortgage market, according to the nonprofit Urban Institute.

Researchers are trying to determine why the rate of breast cancer is rising among Asian American and Pacific Islander women. In 2021 about 11,000 were diagnosed with breast cancer, and 1,500 died. Federal data is also showing the rate of new breast cancer diagnosis in the AAPI women is rising much faster than it is in any other racial and ethnic groups. The numbers are rising fastest among women under 50.

And one expert says it's difficult to pin down the reasons, because the diaspora is so diverse, and because cultural differences make it difficult for patients and their families to talk about it.

And if you speak more than one language, you know how valuable that is. The Department of Education is this week announcing $11 million. This is in grants, to support bilingual and multilingual educators. In a statement, Education Secretary Miguel Cardona said that being multilingual is a superpower, a powerful asset that can connect students to their identity and culture and gives those who speak more than one language cognitive, social and economic benefits, $3.7 million of that money is going to Native American language grants. The Department of Education says there are more than 200 tribal communities without living speakers. So the hope is this will keep those languages alive.

Question for you, do you have an Alberta in your life? And if you have seen the movie, you know I'm talking about, it's a number one movie in the U.S. on Netflix top 10 in 84 countries around the world, "The Deliverance." And why there's controversy with the character, Director Lee Daniels created for Glenn Close.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How would you sniff my breath like that in front of my kids, Ma? No, I wasn't drunk. I've knocked -- teeth out for less.

[08:44:37]

GLENN CLOSE, ACTRESS: Then do it --.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: If you have not seen "The Deliverance," maybe you read about it or heard a lot about it. Lee Daniels directs it and stars Andra Day, Mo'Nique, Glenn Close. It's a horror film that's inspired by a true story involving a black family in Gary, Indiana that claimed to be plagued by demons when they moved to their home in 2011. But the Netflix movie has strayed a bit from its source material.

There is one line in this movie that is going viral. It's from Glenn Close's character, Alberta. It's too explicit for morning television. It's too explicit for any time of television, actually. So we'll just show you how Lee Daniel summed it up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEE DANIELS, DIRECTOR, THE DELIVERANCE": They ain't going to get me, get the one that's going to really blow the internet up, and that's the one when she's --

CLOSE: I can smell your --

DANIELS: And that's going to -- them up. That's the one. And that'll be the meme of all memes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:50:01]

BLACKWELL: Yes. It is. We had to bring in Lisa France to talk about this. I mean that has been on my timeline ever since this movie came out. Listen, you have five Oscar nominees in this. Mo'Nique being a winner. Thirty-three percent on Rotten Tomatoes, though.

LISA RESPERS FRANCE, CNN ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: Yes.

BLACKWELL: Something didn't come together.

FRANCE: Something did not come together. And people want to know, no pun intended, what possessed Lee Daniels to, in the words of the internet, whitewash the character of the mother, because in real life, Latoya Ammons, the real woman, her mother, Rosa, was a black woman, so he comes up with this character, Alberta, who is a white woman with a biracial child, and we see her being very hood, as people have described it, you know, with the weaves and the wigs and with that line that we can't really say, but everybody's talking about. And so the -- the sense is, like, why this was a choice? Like, why did you feel the need? And then he doubled down on the internet.

BLACKWELL: Wait before we get to that --

FRANCE: OK.

BLACKWELL: Let's talk about the choice. This is what he said about why Alberta is in the film.

FRANCE: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANIELS: Like ebony just didn't come out of the ether ready to beat people up, that she came from a bad ass woman, and that shows that Alberta has respect in this black community. I know the conversation that will spark within the black community. We haven't. She's beloved. And it -- and it -- it feels so great to be gratified, gratifying to see the response and to see audiences, black men and women talk about this woman like they haven't seen her before, because it felt like, oh God, I thought I was going crazy for the longest time, and so now it just feels like I'm justified by creating the character.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: And he went a step further on socials, where he said every black person knows in Alberta, she's a part of the fabric of our community, but we've never seen her on screen before. A lot of pushback to that.

FRANCE: Yes. I mean, is the fabric of our community in the room with us right now? Because a lot of people are saying, not necessarily, like, I get what he was trying to say, you know that there's a -- there is within the black community, there exists white women who have had children with men of color, and that is a whole thing.

But people feel like he took it a step too far by saying it's part of the fabric of the black community, because you're saying that you in essence, have to have a white woman like an Alberta, and you don't necessarily, because white women who have children by black men are not necessarily like Alberta, because Alberta is off the chain.

BLACKWELL: Yes, Alberta, there's a scene here where she's sewing in a weed or some tracks chewing gum, quoting movies, doing the hold your head up move.

FRANCE: Yes. She's about that wig light.

BLACKWELL: Yes. She is.

FRANCE: And she got her lace fronts, her tight jeans, she got her black boyfriend, like the -- there's a whole situation going on. And God bless Glenn Close, I have to tell you, because she played these roles.

BLACKWELL: She played it. Yes.

FRANCE: I mean this woman, and I loved her, and everything from, I mean, "Fatal Attraction" to, I mean, there's so many great films that she's done. We have never seen her like this before. But I have to say, I interviewed her a couple years ago --

BLACKWELL: Yes.

FRANCE: -- after she did the butt at the Academy Awards --

BLACKWELL: Yes.

FRANCE: -- which is a famous go-go song, and she really has a love for the black community.

BLACKWELL: Oh, she is for the people?

FRANCE: She is for the people. She is for the culture. We talked about it. She said, I just want people to learn about go-go music and about these --

BLACKWELL: Yes.

FRANCE: -- fantabulous black artists. And I was like, OK, sis, welcome to the cookout.

BLACKWELL: All right.

FRANCE: Welcome to the barbeque.

BLACKWELL: Lisa France, thanks so much.

FRANCE: Thank you.

[08:53:18]

BLACKWELL: Diversity is in style at New York Fashion Week, my conversation with a fashion expert and her mentee on the program that wants to boost the number of black designers in the industry.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Right now in New York, it's Fashion Week, and there's an effort to make the designers as diverse as the style. Shareef Mosby is one of those designers. He's part of a program that pairs up and coming designers with a mentor. Shareef's mentor, industry expert, Elaine Welteroth, in this week's Art is Life, I spoke to both about how they got started and how they came together.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHAREEF MOSBY, FASHION DESIGNER: My name is Shareef Mosby. I'm from Richmond, Virginia, and I'm a fashion designer. ELAINE WELTEROTH, JOURNALIST, AUTHOR AND FOUNDER, BIRTHFUND: I'm Elaine Welteroth. I'm a journalist and author and founder of birthFUND. And I am based in Los Angeles.

MOSBY: I started designing at the age of 10. My brand name is Victim15, very edgy, very fun guard, very underground, punk scene. I started off making clothes for myself in middle school because my parents couldn't afford clothes for me to buy brand new. So, you know, I was finding different things that I had, you know, in my closet, lunch boxes or different like old clothes to kind of upscale it and make it look like it was brand new.

WELTEROTH: I've spent many years in the fashion industry as an editor and also as a judge on Project Runway. You know, working with a lot of different emerging artists, helping them to craft their story and how to really refine their voice. I felt very proud when I had the opportunity to help mentor Shareef, who is an emerging fashion designer who's extremely talented as part of McDonald's Change of Fashion Program.

Only 7.3 percent of American fashion designers are black currently. So we are severely underrepresented in this space. I remember so vividly what it feels like to start out in this business, and to be one of the only who looks like you, and how intimidating that can be.

MOSBY: She's helped me to be more confident, and it kind of like dig deep and to kind of explain my history, having some highest in my corner from like a fashion perspective, and somebody that believes in the vision that's been there, you know, that's huge for me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[09:00:04]

BLACKWELL: Well, for more on Shareef and his pop ups next week, check out his brand, Victim15. And for more on the other designers, you can visit changeoffashion.com.

Now, if you see something I should see, tell me. I'm at VictorBlackwell on socials, Instagram, X and TikTok. Thank you for joining me today. I'll see you back here next Saturday at 8:00 a.m. Eastern. Smerconish is up next.