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First of All with Victor Blackwell

Small Business Spotlight; Drake-Kendrick Lamar Feud Escalates Into Legal Fight; How Real Was Corporate America's Diversity "Commitment"?; Drake Accuses Record Company Of Using Bots To "Artificially Inflate" Kendrick Lamar Song On Spotify; Illinois Court Orders Pretrial Release For Deputy Charged In Sonya Massey's Killing; 347 Years Old Tradition With Mattaponi, Pamunkey Tribes In Virginia; Black Twitter Community In Limbo Amid Social Media Changes. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired November 30, 2024 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: You have a group that boosts entrepreneurs of color. And later, last name Petty, first name Very. The Internet is going off on Drake after his team filed a legal petition over Kendrick Lamar's song about him, Not Like Us. We've got a talk about here, what they're claiming and what the strategy is. It's all coming up, so let's start the show.

Now first of all, if someone claims a commitment to a cause, how long do you expect that to last? Right now, corporate America is facing that question. Companies, let's just put it down here, make it plain. They exist to make money. So maybe it's naive to expect them to stick with any promise, even one seemingly as firm as this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DOUG MCMILLON, PRESIDENT AND CEO, WALMART INC.: After the murder of George Floyd, we stopped, like so many other companies did and so many other people did, to ask, what more can we be doing? We all had to look in the mirror and figure out what's the next level look like. These things will take some time and the company's committed. We'll continue to make investments of our time and our money. We'll keep finding ways to help create more equity in the system, more opportunity in the company over time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: "These things will take some time." Well, in this case, some time is about four years. Grand opening, grand closing. This week, Walmart announced that it's ending its five-year, $100 million social justice investment early. And it's not the only company that touted diversity, equity and inclusion programs and then only to wind them down, or in this case, roll it back.

Ford, Lowe's, Harley-Davidson, Tractor Supply, Jack Daniels, John Deere, they've done it too. Walmart, though, is the largest yet. They've got 1.6 million employees, and according to their own data, more than half of their hourly employees are people of color.

In a statement, the company explained, "We've been on a journey and we know we aren't perfect, but every decision comes from a place of wanting to foster a sense of belonging." And it's not just about belonging, though. It's also good business. Don't take my word for it. Walmart executives explained it themselves. Look at this. This video from 2011.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're focused on making Walmart an even more diverse and inclusive company because it's who we are as part of the communities where we live and work. It's also how we can win as a business by valuing all our associates, attracting new talent, and meeting our customer's changing needs.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: DEI programs are nothing new. That's from 2011. What was new here after 2020 was Walmart's center for racial equity. It was meant to address systemic issues for black people in areas like education, and health, and criminal justice. That five-year, $100 million investment now is not being extended. Its racial equity training programs are also ending. And LGBTQ inclusion is a big part of DEI. And Walmart is also reviewing their funding of events like Pride. So is this another sign that for corporate America, DEI is done?

Let's get perspective from an expert. Shaun Harper is the founder of the Race and Equity Center now at the University of Southern California. Shaun, good morning to you. Thanks for being with me. Walmart is set aside because it's so big, the largest private employer in the United States. But are the reasons that it's cutting back or rolling back on DEI the same as the others we listed here?

SHAUN HARPER, FOUNDER, USC RACE AND EQUITY CENTER: Well, thanks for having me, Victor. I do think that this is indeed and unfortunately a sign of the times where many companies have jumped on the bandwagon of abandoning their espoused commitments to diversity, equity and inclusion.

BLACKWELL: There's one filmmaker, an activist who's taken credit for this. His name is Robby Starbuck. He's pressuring these big companies, threatening them. Well, here is what he said recently about this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBBY STARBUCK, ANTI-DEI Activist: Companies have tried every different type of tactic to deal with us, and they've failed on every front. So now we've gotten to the point where companies are working with us from the outset when we reach out to them, like Toyota just did, like Walmart just did. Companies are seeing the wisdom in that, and I think they're very smart for doing so.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN HOST: Is this just going to come back with different definitions? STARBUCK: Well, if it does, I think the companies are aware of the

consequences of what that will look like. And we've been very clear about that in our conversations with companies that, look, we're wise to all of the new terms or wise to all the ways they'll try to shift this. And if you go that route, we're going to do the same thing, but it's going to be much worse the second time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[08:05:07]

BLACKWELL: So what is the threat here? Is it boycotts? Is it lawsuits? What's the threat against companies like Walmart?

HARPER: Well, I tend to think Victor of it really as risk mitigation. You know, many companies make themselves incredibly susceptible to lawsuits and legal settlements when they don't have strong policies that protect customers and employees from harassment and discrimination and abuse, and other forms of disadvantage. You know, I think it's really fascinating to me that a social media influencer, not an expert who's worked in hundreds of companies, not a person who studied DEI and actually has data about what's happening in companies, but an influencer can take to social media and ultimately convince dozens of companies to undo their DEI commitments. That strongly signals that they were not serious commitments to begin with.

BLACKWELL: Yes. Who are the we that he speaks of? He speaks in terms of leading a team, but from what we've seen, it's Robby Starbuck.

HARPER: Yes. I don't know who else is on his team. I've not seen anyone else be the messenger but him. But let me just say that he is one powerful messenger. I would warn other companies who have not yet jumped on the Starbuck bandwagon to beware. Right. Because really, I don't think that companies are taking full stock of what their DEI programs and policies actually do and aim to do, right? They don't aim to divide people.

I've worked in hundreds of companies and that's never the aim. They aim to upskill employees, leaders, and managers to make companies responsive to the diversity of customers, the diversity of employees. They aim to bring people together. They aim to help people do things like close pay gaps, for instance, that chronically disadvantaged women in the workplace, you know, those are all serious things that remain undone in many companies.

BLACKWELL: Yes. This is not just about the racial inequities inside companies. It is about the LGBTQ community. It's for women who are underrepresented as well, those who are differently abled as well in some of these religious differences.

Let me go to this. For those people who support DEI, we know with those who are against DEI policies these companies are planning to do or threatening to do. But what is available for those who say no Walmart, there should be a consequence for getting rid of this commitment or ending this commitment. What can they do? HARPER: Yes. I think that those folks can leverage their social and

digital media platforms. They can also talk with their neighbors and their family members to help explain to them what DEI is and what it aims to do. I think we need liberals and progressives and people who know better to bring the same force and energy to telling the truth about what DEI is that Starbuck and conservatives and others who are spreading misinformation, disinformation, and lies about DEI are bringing to the table. You know, those folks are very organized. They're very well funded. They have a very clear playbook. We need a playbook on the other side that is filled with facts and evidence about what these programs and policies are and do.

BLACKWELL: Isaac Hayes III, who's been on the show for a different reason, he tweeted out something this week that I thought deserves some consideration and discussion. He said, "Let's stop using the word boycott because that implies that we will return if things change. Let's simply decide by default to never shop or do business with certain companies ever, no matter what they tell us or what changes they temporarily make to seem inclusive. And I thought, for a company like Walmart, is this plausible? Because I've spent most of my career on television in the south, in the deep south, covering this area as well, and Walmart really is kind of the indispensable retailer in some of these towns that have nothing else.

They got a Super Walmart and you go there for groceries and clothes and tires and all the rest. Can just not shopping at Walmart work on either side of this issue?

[08:10:00]

HARPER: No, Victor, I don't think that's the answer. I'm from one of those small towns that doesn't have a mall but has a Walmart. I am not going to advise my mama to not shop at Walmart. That is not the answer.

I think the answer is that we have to help raise the consciousness of the nation about how Walmart can fulfill its corporate social responsibility to its customers and to its employees. We have to help raise the consciousness of the nation. As you said in the lead in nearly half of the people who work in Walmart stores are people of color. Many of the people who work there are women. Many of the people who work there are veterans. And they deserve the kinds of protections and the policies and the professional learning experiences that really good high-quality DEI provides. So I don't think the boycotting is the answer here.

BLACKWELL: Shaun Harper, appreciate you coming on for the conversation. And it looks like nearly every week we're seeing a big company across this country back away from their really seemingly heartfelt, full-throated DEI commitments we saw just four years ago. Sean, enjoy the Saturday. Thank you.

Now this discussion also trickles down to small business. We'll get into that and what the kickoff to the holiday shopping season has in store for entrepreneurs of color. That's next. Plus from God's plan to a legal plan, Drake is threatening to take his

rap beef with Kendrick Lamar to court what his team is claiming about the song "Not Like Us" that may be backfiring with the culture.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:16:25]

BLACKWELL: The holiday shopping season is on and for small businesses, this is a season of let's call it hope. Check out this post-pandemic stat from the White House this month. They say "Business ownership has doubled among black households and hit a 30-year high for Hispanic households. New business creation rates hit a 30-year high for Asian Americans. And women own a higher share of businesses than before the pandemic." But there is a lot of uncertainty this year as well.

The business advocacy group Small Business Majority tells CNN that among their network of 80,000 small businesses, "The biggest concerns are with tariffs and the potential impacts to supply chain and costs stricter immigration policies, including mass deportations which could affect food and labor supply, whether Affordable Care act subsidies will be left to die on the vine in 2025 and whether federal contracts will no longer favor women and minority-owned businesses."

With us now is Melvin Coleman, president and CEO of the Atlanta Black Chambers. Melvin, thank you for coming in. Let's carry over a bit of what we talked about before the break into this conversation. These activists are targeting the big companies, the Walmart's, the John Deere, Jack Daniels. Is there some impact of this on the small businesses as well?

MELVIN COLEMAN, PRESIDENT AND CEO, ATLANTA BLACK CHAMBERS: Absolutely. A lot of small businesses are B2B and a lot of those B2B small businesses seek opportunities with our larger corporations, what we call supplier diversity, vendor diversity programs. And so now there's going to be some pressure in terms of some change that may take place because there's a lack of support now to have those programs in place and to operate them effectively with goals and objectives that would then create opportunities for a lot of small businesses.

BLACKWELL: This is a cultural change. And when I say cultural, I mean it's not just in the private sector. We're also seeing it of the incoming administration as it relates to the DEI in government. The house has passed a bill that likely will come up in the next session about DEI and federal contractors as well.

So when it comes to, let's say, the financing and funding of these businesses, we've had the founders of the Fearless Fund on and they lost a lawsuit or settled a lawsuit that ended a contest that awarded grants to minority women-owned businesses, black women businesses. How is this shift impacting the ability to get money to fund some of these new ventures?

COLEMAN: Well, access to capital is probably the biggest challenge for the small businesses in particular, you know, our black and minority small businesses. So in an environment where there is less support with programs and initiatives, we're seeing a future that is uncertain. You know, there's -- the optimism is gone. It's changing now.

BLACKWELL: The president-elect says that these tariffs that he's promising on goods coming in from China and from Canada and from Mexico make U.S. made products more attractive to the buyer. The truth also is that a lot of the components come from overseas and will make things more expensive for the buyer. Is there any upside to a small business if these tariffs are placed on January 20th?

[08:20:05]

COLEMAN: Well, the first thing that comes to mind for me is accounting 101. It was a long time ago for me, but I remember if the cost of goods sold increases, then profit margins will decrease and a lot of small businesses don't have the luxury of absorbing that cost and we'll have to pass it on to their customers. So that's the first thing that comes to mind because to your point, a lot of the parts or if you own a restaurant and some of the produce is coming from Mexico and other places, if that cost is higher, it's simple math. And so that is our first concern.

BLACKWELL: So let's talk about how people can support it is Small Business Saturday and how people can support these small, especially minority-owned businesses. A lot of people think I'm going to go to a Mom and Pop and have lunch or I'm going to go to a local tea shop and buy, you know, a couple of bags of tea or some loose leaf.

What are the other ways maybe we're not thinking of to support these businesses?

COLEMAN: A great percentage of small businesses are professional services. You know, insurance, real estate, things like that. Those are small business owners as well. Of course, we want you to visit those storefront operations where you can purchase a product and that is very important. But definitely don't discount or overlook the fact that again, those professional services which we all use and those are very important entities in our business community as well.

BLACKWELL: And those are ones that you can support years year-round, not just on small business Saturday. Melvin Coleman, thanks so much for coming in.

COLEMAN: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: A music drama could soon be a legal drama. Why Drake is threatening to take his rap feud with Kendrick Lamar to court.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:26:34

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They not like us. They not like us. They not like us. They not like us. They not like us. They not like us. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: This may be the hip-hop equivalent of asking to speak with the manager. Rapper Drake turning his feud with Kendrick Lamar into a legal fight. In a court petition, his lawyers are accusing Universal Music Group of using tactics like bots to artificially inflate K Dot's diss track Not Like Us on radio and Spotify. And the labels of both artists are divisions of UMG. And UMG denied the claims in a statement to CNN, and they added, "No amount of contrived and absurd legal arguments in this pre-action submission can mask the fact that the fans choose the music they want to hear." So it's like that.

And the headlines for Drake had been brutal. From Drake and the Art of Extending an L to Billboard Straight up asking can Drake regain his credibility?

Music journalist Sowmya Krishnamurthy is with us now. She's also the author of Fashion Killa: How Hip-Hop Revolutionized High Fashion and the upcoming book Roc-A-Fella Records: An American Rap Dynasty. Thank you for being on with me. Let me start here with Is Drake whining or does he have a plausible case here?

SOWMYA KRISHNAMURTHY, MUSIC JOURNALIST AND POP CULTURE CRITIC: This is definitely a case of whining. You know, when you look at the origins of hip-hop, the competitive spirit is so intrinsic. And in one of the biggest rap battles we've ever seen in our lifetime. Who would have thought it would potentially end in a courtroom? It's unprecedented.

BLACKWELL: Let me read here from this petition. And it's not a lawsuit, so I want to be clear about that. It's just a petition, potentially pre-action. But this is page five. Drake's attorney claims that UMG had a deal with Apple. Quote, "Online sources reported that when users asked Siri to play the "Certified Loverboy" album by Drake, Siri instead played "Not Like Us", which contains the lyric certified pedophile, an allegation against Drake."

You know, when I first read that, it sounded like Trump saying that the Dominion voting machines were changing Trump votes to Biden votes. But what are these online sources? How prevalent were these reports that it was changing what's played?

KRISHNAMURTHY: So I'm going to be honest, I actually did the test during this time and it did work. When you said, hey, Siri, play Certified Loverboy, it did play not like us.

BLACKWELL: Really?

KRISHNAMURTHY: It did? Yes. I actually posted a video on my YouTube and social media, but I think we all knew that it was pulling from the lyrics. So I think Apple could have an argument. People were searching for that song or that's what their algorithm was kicking up. Because it is not just titles, it's also lyrics. So there's a little bit of nuance there.

BLACKWELL: Okay. UMG denies the claims, as we said at the top, but the company did settle a Payola case for $12 million back in '06 that claimed that they bribed radio stations and to play their artist. Is it plausible? I mean, and also, if they did this for Kendrick, how prevalent are these practices to say that Drake didn't benefit from these at some other time?

KRISHNAMURTHY: Yes. And that's what a lot of industry insiders are saying it could. The entirety of his career, Drake really has enjoyed this privilege being an industry darling, being the most streamed artist on Spotify for hip hop even now. I think the last time I checked, his monthly uniques on Spotify are more than Kendrick.

If we go back to 2018, there was a huge campaign where every single Spotify playlist was Drake, whether it was hip hop, pop, country, gospel. So these campaigns by these streaming services or companies, they're not uncommon. But the question is Drake now bitter or whining because he's not the beneficiary?

BLACKWELL: I read some of the headlines in the intro to our conversation. How much does this hurt his credibility?

KRISHNAMURTHY: I think a lot. You know, it's one thing to lose a rap battle, but the hand of your adversary and say, hey, good game. I think that's good sportsmanship. But this to me just really seems like whining. It seems like when things don't go as well. I think you made alluded to it earlier, it has that very much stop the steel energy that doesn't do too well in hip hop.

BLACKWELL: Sowmya Krishnamurthy, thank you so much for explaining to us. And I am genuinely surprised that if you said Certified Lover Boy, you got Not Like Us. I'm going to try it. I don't know if it still works, but I'll check with Siri after the show. Thanks so much for being with me.

A police officer in Louisville is suing his department. Wise says his views on the death of Breonna Taylor led to discrimination.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:36:33]

BLACKWELL: We have some updates now on the stories we are committed to covering on this show. An Illinois court has ordered the release of the former sheriff's deputy charging the death of Sonya Massey. Massey had dealt with mental health issues. She was shot in her home after she called police for help. Sean Grayson, the officer or the deputy who responded ordered Massey to remove a pot of water from the stove and while holding the pot, she told Grayson she rebuked him. He ordered her to drop the pot and shot her three times as she tried to duck.

This case led to the retirement of the sheriff and prompted a Justice Department investigation. Grayson has been in jail since July pending his trial for first degree murder. Prosecutors argue that Grayson is a danger to the community. A circuit court judge will set a date with attorneys to consider conditions for Grayson's release.

A Kentucky police Officer shot during 2020 protest over Breonna Taylor's death is suing his department for discrimination. Robinson Desroches was shot while dispersing a crowd as the group protested the grand jury's decision to indict only one officer for Taylor's death.

In his lawsuit, Desroches says that his unfair treatment started after he refused to be a poster child for the department's recruitment efforts. He also accuses the department of ignoring his medical needs, not considering him for promotions, and launching several internal investigations into him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBINSON DESROCHES, LMPD OFFICER SHOT DURING 2020 PROTESTS: It takes one. It takes somebody to stand up, you know, to finally say enough is enough and demand change. And that's what I'm doing here now. And, you know, I'm putting a lot on the line, but it's OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: This week, the police chief addressed his claims. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF PAUL HUMPHREY, LOUISVILLE METRO POLICE: I'm really sorry for Desroches and what he's been through. What I will say is that we do our best to take care of our officers when they're injured the way that he was. And I think we've made strides in the last couple of years even more so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: The officer is still a Louisville police officer, but is on a workers compensation leave for his physical and mental health.

The family of a Florida woman shot and killed by a neighbor have launched a fund to help families impacted by racial violence. This week, Susan Lorincz was sentenced to 25 years in prison for shooting and killing Ajike AJ Owens, the mother of four last year. Owens had knocked on Lorincz's door after she yelled at Owens children who were playing nearby.

Lorincz, who had a history of harassing children and using racial slurs, fired a single shot through her door. That case tested the limits of Florida's stand ground law. A family attorney say that the law should be reconsidered.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY THOMAS, OWENS FAMILY ATTORNEY: And that has some positive aspects, but a larger part of it is very negative whereas people are able to use the law as an excuse to get away with killing someone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: According to WESH, Owens family and friends say they plan for the fund to help ease the financial burden for families, support community organizers and support changing legislation.

A judge in Missouri ruled that prosecutors can proceed with their case against an elderly white man charged with shooting a black teenager. According to KMBC, Andrew Lester's attorney asked for a mental health exam for his client earlier this year. The results of that exam are not available to the public.

Lester is charged with one count of felony assault and one count of armed criminal action in the shooting of Ralph Yarl.

[08:40:02]

You remember Yarl, now 17-year-old, mistakenly went to Lester's home to pick up his younger siblings. Yarl was shot in the head and in the arm. Lester has pleaded not guilty.

Black Twitter has been a force in shaping culture. But can the community move off what is now known as X and survive somewhere else? I'll ask an expert who has actually done the research.

Plus, an important post-Thanksgiving message from Plies.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:45:00]

BLACKWELL: For now 347 years. This moment has marked a unique meeting between Virginia and the Commonwealth's native tribes. The tax tribute, as it's known, commemorates the Treaty of Middle Plantation, where the Mattaponi and Pamunkey tribes bring a tribute of deer as a tax payment to the governor of Virginia in recognition of their land and hunting rights.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GLENN YOUNGKIN (R) VIRGINIA: We are not just affirming a simple agreement. Rather, we are affirming a longstanding relationship that is interwoven into the story of Virginia and the story of America. We are affirming the integral role that the Mattaponi and the Pamunkey tribes play in our history, in our society. And yes, a history that extends back even beyond the 347 years of the Treaty of Middle Plantation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: It's interesting. I found out about this annual tradition when I was looking into my family ancestry. A genealogist traced my lineage back to my 10 times great grandmother Mary and my eight times great grandmother Bess, who arrived in Virginia in 1712. And the research suggests that they were Mattaponi. Mattaponi sovereignty is recognized by Virginia. The tribe is now seeking federal recognition.

All right, now that it's after Thanksgiving and I've had this marked on my calendar for a long time, I share it every year because it's time for an important PSA on Thanksgiving leftovers. And here it is from class. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PLIES, RAPPER: Some of y'all might want to write this down because I'm going to give you the calendar and the itinerary for the leftover. You cook the food on Wednesday night. Thursday, you ate the food. Friday, that when it was his best. Sadly, you're pushing it. Sunday ain't no more leftover. Monday, you tripping.

Tuesday, yes, you still eating them leftover. Wednesday, hospital. Thursday dead. That's the bottom line for the leftover because some of y'all think you can just eat the leftovers how long you want to eat them? It don't work like that with the leftovers, man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Plies' speaking truth back in 2016. And let me just say, that goes for beans, greens, potatoes, tomatoes, chicken, turkeys, you name it. And those memes are the perfect example of content that becomes classic on Black Twitter. We've all felt the community's influence on topics some silly, some serious, from hashtag, you know You Black Win to hashtags Oscars So White. And hashtag Black Lives Matter.

WIRED magazine's Jason Parham best explained Black Twitter in his 2021 oral history this Way. It is both news and analysis, call and response, judge and jury, a comedy showcase, therapy session, family cookout, all in one. Black Twitter is a multiverse, simultaneously an archive and an all seeing lens into the future.

But what is Black Twitter's future now? After Elon Musk turned Twitter into X, the online community already felt in limbo. And now with a lot of users leaving or not just engaging with the platform post-election, could the culture survive on alternative platforms like Bluesky, which have seen a recent surge and interest?

Andre Brock is an associate professor at Georgia Tech where he researches cyber cultures like Black Twitter. He's also the author of "Distributed Blackness: African American Cyber Cultures." Andre, thank you for being with me.

Is that your characterization? Let me come to you, authority on black social media and cyber cultures. Are we defining Black Twitter the right way here?

ANDRE BROCK, "BLACK TWITTER" AND CYBERCULTURE RESEARCHER: Absolutely.

BLACKWELL: Tell me more.

BROCK: I knew you were going to say that. So Black Twitter is absolutely a generative space for black culture and identity, one unanticipated by previous media forms because of its interactivity and near real time modes of communication. And as such, it has been both responsive to things of the moment, but also has surprisingly served as an archive for black ways of life and moving.

So the beans, greens, tomato reference, the Shirley Caesar sample is something that came up a few years ago and people immediately latched onto it because they understood it from a black church tradition and then it was remixed by one of the on trend Internet DJs to fit into the current moment. So no, I think how you characterize it is really good.

[08:50:00]

BLACKWELL: So let's talk about what this moment for Twitter now X means for Black Twitter. Because there are many users who are leaving the platform, are not engaging. They find, well, there's actually data that shows an increase in hate across the X platform and many people are moving to black a Bluesky, the creation of Blacksky. What does this mean for the Black Twitter community? Can it be transferred to another platform?

BROCK: The spirit of the community could transfer eventually, but a simple technical iteration of Twitter's features will not necessarily capture that spirit. Right. And it's in many ways similar to the hollowing out of black neighborhoods in Atlanta and D.C. through gentrification. Many of the people who can afford to move will leave, but there will still be a core of people who either can't move or don't want to move because that's where their lives are. And that's currently what Twitter is looking like.

BLACKWELL: Plies is adroit at using these platforms. I showed that because I personally love it. But he was engaged in the 2024 election throughout on not just X, but on TikTok and other platforms as well. Don Lemon, my former colleague, is great at these platforms as well. He's moved from X now to Bluesky.

You write about though, how Black Twitter undermines the narrative that there's a certain demographic that uses these effectively and those are 20 to 30 year old white males and this kind of turns that on its head. Talk more about that if you would.

BROCK: So, Twitter has been noted for over a decade that black folk over index, by which I mean there are more black people on Twitter percentage wise than there are in the American population. So approximately 26 percent of Twitter users versus 13 percent in the American population.

And as a result, and the way Twitter works, which where it focuses on conversation and discourse, we tended to dominate the way the platform worked. Right. And as such, Black Twitter became a cultural force, starting when Ferguson jumped off around Trayvon, but also during the Trump years as well.

And so it's interesting to hear about people leaving, celebrities in particular leaving Black Twitter. But that's not why Black Twitter became salient in the first place. It became salient because it was as much the corner or the beauty salon as it was any particular place for appropriate discourse and politics.

BLACKWELL: Yes. Rudy Fraser, coder and creator, is working on the BlackSky Algorithms as people move to that platform. What do you foresee as the future for this community as it is? BROCK: So Bluesky is really interesting. It's currently open, there

are no ads on it. And Rudy's work in particular has been central to building and stabilizing a black presence on the platform, which skewed really white when it first started, which makes sense. It was started by Jack Dorsey. It was a tech experiment at first. They didn't and still don't have a robust content moderation team. Right.

And Rudy's work in both identifying a group of people who can generate black content, but then tuning his algorithm to pick up that black content has done a lot to replicate Twitter's capacity to reproduce black cultural conversations.

BLACKWELL: Andre Brock, I appreciate you coming on this early to talk with me about this as there is this kind of transition moment. We don't know where it's going or how long it'll be in transition, but something that has been the cornerstone of social media, Black Twitter and what this moment means for the larger culture. Thanks so much for being with me this Saturday.

BROCK: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: This week we're thankful for community, how a historic borough came together to support one of their own after an act of hate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:58:30]

BLACKWELL: You know, I love shouting out great people on the show, but sometimes it's an entire community that deserves recognition. Lawnside, New Jersey describes itself as the first independent, self- governing African American community north of the Mason Dixon line. According to the borough, the land was first purchased in 1840 by abolitionists for freed and escaped slaves.

So of course they've dealt with and have responded to adversity before, but now they're doing it again after the home of a resident was tagged with racist graffiti.

Police are investigating and in response, a local group called Embracing Race, the conversation organized a peace vigil. Community members also help clean the fence and then replace it altogether.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAWN HINES, FENCE TAGGED WITH RACIST GRAFFITI: It's amazing. I don't even know these people. Like just these are people, different cultures coming together for solidarity. My neighbors that I normally see, we do the hi and bye, but now my neighbors are actually friends now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, we're definitely a community that stands together and we support each other.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The main message is love, but also we're not going tolerate hate. And we really are going to stand with our brothers and sisters who are the victims of hate.

HINES: I feel a lot better. I'm able to sleep better. And then this shows that love is winning. Hate isn't. And I'm just, I'm happy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[09:00:00]

BLACKWELL: Lawnside, New Jersey, I see you. And if you see something or someone I should see, tell me. I'm on Instagram, TikTok X and Bluesky.

If you missed a conversation or story, check out CNN.com/VictorBlackwell-First-Of-All to watch anytime and you can listen to our show as a podcast wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for joining me today. I'll see you back here next Saturday at 8:00 a.m. Eastern. Smerconish is up next.