Return to Transcripts main page

First of All with Victor Blackwell

Minorities Face Burnt Of Trump's First Actions Back In Office; Former White House Diversity Chief Reacts To End Of DEI Programs; Trump Targets DEI, Civil Rights Rules In First Days Of 2nd Term. Newark Mayor Says Business Raided By ICE Agents, Multiple People Detained; Hostages Return To Israel For Treatment After Release By Hamas; CNN Kobe Bryant Documentary Series Premiers Tonight. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired January 25, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:00:13]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: First of all, it's been five days. Five days of the new Trump administration and already it's everything, everywhere, all at once. And that flood-the-zone approach is partly what frustrates the President's detractors. His supporters love it. The news is a lot right now. And I get it. It's hard to keep up with all the changes of the new Trump administration. But it's also hard to miss that so many of the changes directly impact minority groups in this country.

To start with civil rights efforts at the Justice Department. All civil rights cases and investigations are now on hold. No new court files unless senior Trump officials approve. Same goes for police reform agreements with cities like Louisville and Minneapolis. Those are frozen.

Federal offices have now been given 60 days to start eliminating all federal offices and jobs that have to do with diversity, equity, inclusion and accessibility, and environmental justice. Diversity equity inclusion initiatives are now banned in federal contracting. Some federal workers have been even ordered to report what's described in department wide memos as efforts to conceal DEI. The memo says this. We are aware of efforts by some in the government to disguise these programs by using coded or imprecise language. And they warn this, failure to report this information within 10 days will result in adverse consequences.

Now corporate America is largely falling in line too. This new headline and lead on a story about how Target is now dropping DEI says it all. Target, one of the most full-throated corporate supporters of black and LGBTQ rights, changed its tune Friday. Changed its tune.

You know all those culturally conscious t-shirts and the Christmas decorations that they sell. Yes. Michael Leach has a unique perspective on this. He was the first chief diversity and inclusion officer at the White House and a former special assistant to President Biden.

Michael, good morning to you. Let me read you a couple of lines from the executive order ending DEIA and federal government. "Hardworking Americans who deserve a shot at the American Dream should not be stigmatized, demeaned, or shut out of opportunities because of their race or sex. The American people have witnessed firsthand the disastrous consequences of illegal, pernicious discrimination that has prioritized how people were born instead of what they are capable of doing."

It is the language that was supportive and justified affirmative action that now is being turned to end it. What is the defense for DEI?

MICHAEL LEACH, FORMER WH CHIEF DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION OFFICER: Yes, well first, Victor, good to see you. Thanks for reaching out. Great to be with you. You know, I often say we should never stop learning because life never stops teaching. And if it's one thing this past week has taught us, it's that progress is not permanent. And neither is the time we are given here on Earth to make it.

You know, these recent efforts to roll back DEIA, diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility, which is an equally important tenet of the broader DEI work, all that's happened is really a stark reminder of how far we still have to go. This is so much bigger than executive orders and policy changes, is really about the kind of society that we want to live in.

You know, these have always been about bridging the gap between American ideals and American realities, making sure that these values are not just aspirations, but actual lived experiences for everyone. And so this notion that we cannot change what we will not confront will certainly hold true, as you alluded to, with the legal challenges that the executor will be confronted with.

You know, this directive raises questions about potential violations of employment protections, specifically for federal employees. You know, I know they cited their intention to reduce the size of the federal workforce, but reduction in force actions are governed by strict regulations to ensure fairness and compliance with the law.

And so any attempt to target employees based solely on their roles in DEIA could open the door to legal challenges under certain statutes, including the Civil Service Reform Act, which established that both federal employees have due process rights if their agency, employer, wants to remove them from their employment. And so, because things like this are connected to attempts to strip away these employees of their due process rights, it can be viewed as contrary to congressional intent.

But just to take a step back, you know, what often gets lost in this conversation about these actions are the people directly impacted, the men and women who have dedicated their careers to serving this country, to helping it live up to its ideal. These are people with families to support, mortgages to pay, a passion for making nation better. [08:05:03]

And so, you know, as much as this moment is disappointing, it's not surprising, right? They told us what they would do, but, you know, springs back to a life lesson when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. And from the first --

BLACKWELL: And, Michael, let me jump in here, because the question was, what is the defense of DEI? I understand the defending of these positions, but this is a moment in which we're seeing corporate America, the federal government, these contractors that are turning away from DEI. What is the defense of the necessity of having these policies in federal government? That's the case that some people need to hear who are hearing a de facto quota system. What is your case to keep them?

LEACH: You know what? This is going to impact far beyond the federal workforce. You know, the federal government is the nation's largest employer, right? And so the defense is really plain and simple. If we continue to, you know, send this signal, private sector employers, federal government agencies, are going to feel less inclined to invest, and you risk losing the best and brightest talent who might choose to sit out or stay silent. You know, the United States, every company is at its strongest when its workforce reflects the communities it serves and when its public servants are equipped to advance equitable outcomes. And it's really hard to have a deep understanding of how to deliver those outcomes for anyone. And if you're in the private sector, how to deliver best for the community you serve, for the good product or service you provide or utilize if you don't have an equitable representation. It's a competitive disadvantage to not engage and to not be very intentional and deliberate in that's really the case.

BLACKWELL: All right, Michael Leach, former DEI officer there at the White House, thank you so much for being with me this morning. Let's focus now on immigration, because not only are the Trump administration's actions expansive, they are causing anxiety.

A Chicago elementary school says that law enforcement agents were blocked from entering their campus yesterday. Now, Chicago Public Schools said the agents were from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, but the U.S. Secret Service says it was their agents who approached the school. They were investigating a potential threat to a government official. It wasn't ICE.

What's clear, though, is that tensions are high in Chicago. A source familiar with the planning tells our Josh Campbell that Chicago is expected to be the first of more than two dozen cities DHS operations will target across the country. There's this sense of uncertainty and fear among immigrant communities. The governor of Illinois addressed it this way.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GOV. JB PRITZKER, (D) ILLINOIS: There's so much confusion and chaos that they are scaring families that are here legally who might have relatives who are undocumented, right. And we want to make sure that we're allaying those fears if in fact we know that they should be allayed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: Congresswoman Delia Ramirez's district includes Chicago and she serves on the Homeland Security Committee in Congress. And making these issues even more personal, she's the daughter of immigrants from Guatemala and her husband is a DACA recipient.

Congresswoman, welcome back to the show. I mean, what happened yesterday at Hamlin Elementary School was not an ICE raid. We talked about actually what it was. But what is this promise from the new border czar creating in your community and what's the plan to deal with it?

REP. DELIA RAMIREZ, (D) ILLINOIS: Look, it's creating fear, it's creating instability and it is attempting to immobilize communities with the idea that, yes, Secret Service showed up to a school in a predominantly Latino immigrant community searching for an 11-year-old boy. Just shows you exactly the tactic. No one feels safe in this moment.

When I checked in with teachers yesterday, many of them that I saw last night, they said, we saw a drop in attendance by almost 15 percent across the network because parents are so afraid to send their United States citizen children to school out of fear. What you are seeing in this moment is a tactic to target anyone that may look immigrant. You're seeing it across the country. They are now detaining veterans because somehow they profiled them and that person wasn't carrying proper documentation to prove their citizenship.

This moment is showing us that schools, hospitals, the places where people should see as a safe haven to seek help. Children are not safe under this administration. And think about this, mixed-status families. I am a United States citizen, husband or wife, they're living in fear that when their husband, when their wives, when their children go to do the thing they do every single day, they may not come back home that night.

BLACKWELL: Chicago Public Schools has not told CNN nor is the U.S. Secret Service that they were searching for an 11-year-old boy. I just want to create that distinction here.

[08:10:07]

Last night the administration ended services for refugees. As I said in the last hour, that means no caseworker support, not helping them find jobs or housing or understanding how to use certain banking systems here in the U.S. Including those Afghans who helped the U.S. in wars in the Middle East. What are the implications of that?

RAMIREZ: It's even hard for me when you say that, right? To have an immediate response to you. History is going to look back to this moment and what is causing it, and the trauma and the instability that this nation is about to experience in a way that we have not seen and some of us have never seen in our lifetimes. The idea that this is a moment of criminalizing every single person that feels like the other. It's a moment of exclusion, it's a moment of inequality. And frankly, it feels like it's a moment where we are seeing the worst of its worst that this nation has seen in a very long time. No services.

If you are an immigrant, if you were someone that came here and saw that Statue of Liberty and you said this is a place that is going to seek to bring rest to those persecuted, those tired. This nation under this new administration is no longer the nation that receives those that are in need.

BLACKWELL: Let me stay on that point you're making. Listen to Republican Congresswoman Maria Elvira Salazar. This is the day after the election. She represents a district in South Florida with a large immigrant population. Could be close to 200,000 undocumented in Miami- Dade County. This is what she said November 6th on PBS in support of the president's mass deportation plans.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR, (R) FLORIDA: The deportation is going to be among those criminals who are the gang members, the getaways, the trend, the (inaudible). You understand that you have millions of undocumented who are contributing with the economy and are helping our country to be a better one. So there's going to be a distinction.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: Well now, after the president ended Biden's protections for Cubans, Haitians, Nicaraguans, and Venezuelans literally seeking asylum and have not committed crimes, she's asking for an exception. She posted this letter and sent it to the Department of Homeland Security. "Individuals must be afforded due process."

Your reaction now to what we heard from the congresswoman right after the election. And now the exception she's asking for her constituents.

RAMIREZ: Yes. \I mean, look, the hypocrisy of someone who is Cuban- American and understands what it's like to seek asylum in this country where so many Cubans have come to this country seeking asylum. And now that exception that she thought it was only those criminal offenders, those gang members, and realizing that that person that she has supported so blindly and so loyally is not coming after her own constituents. She's actually, now they're actually coming for people from her own country, from her own communities. I mean, the reality is that Donald Trump defines anyone who entered this country unauthorized as a criminal, and that includes women and children.

And so let me tell you, as someone that serves as a member of Homeland Security, and we're asking ourselves, how do we make sure that people in this country feel safe? United States citizens are not feeling safe in this very moment by the same administration that has said that they are here to create the stability and safety that this country has needed.

BLACKWELL: Representative Delia Ramirez, representing Illinois 3rd, thank you so much for being with me.

Now in New Jersey, the mayor of Newark says his city was, quote, unlawfully terrorized by federal agents who he says went into a business and detained some of his constituents, including a military vet. He joins us in a moment. Plus, among President Trump's pardons this week, two officers convicted for their role in the death of a black, a man on a moped, and a cover-up of what happened. The former partner of that victim is here to react next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:18:59]

BLACKWELL: Two of the hundreds of pardons President Donald Trump issued in the first week of his new term are former Washington, D.C. Officers convicted for the role in the death of a Black man in 2020 and covering it up. 20-year old Karan Hylton-Brown was riding a moped without a helmet. An officer in an unmarked car started following him and then another in a marked car tried to get ahead of him.

Well, prosecutors say they chased him at, quote, "unreasonable speeds until an uninvolved driver hit Hilton Brown". And then investigators say the officers covered up the incident. They turned off their body cameras, tampered with the scene, lied to commanding officers.

In 2022, former police lieutenant Andrew Zabowski and former officer Terrence Sutton were both convicted of conspiracy to obstruct and obstruction of justice. Now Sutton was convicted of second-degree murder. They received their sentences in September but were both out on bail pending an appeal.

Zabowska's attorney thanked Trump for the pardon. We're very grateful to President Trump for doing it. Sutton's lawyer said, "We are thrilled that President Trump ended this prosecution once and for all." And Sutton told CNN, quote, "I want to go back to the police department and finish my career."

[08:20:16]

Amala Jones-Bey is the mother of Karan Hylton-Brown's daughter. Amala, thank you for being with me, and I am sorry for your loss. Let me ask you first about your reaction when you heard that the president pardoned these two, Mr. Zabowski and Mr. Sutton.

AMALA JONES-BEY, MOTHER OF HYLTON-BROWN'S DAUGHTER: When I first heard that President Trump was going to pardon these two police officers, unfortunately, I was not very surprised because I'm aware of how things work. I am, though, surprised that he's trying to go undo this whole case after they were already convicted. If they're so thrilled about it, you know, it's over, then I feel like it should have been over with. Just let it, you know, go. To bring it back up is very overwhelming, and it's a lot for me.

BLACKWELL: I can understand that. The president, this week, he was asked about his pardons of the January 6th attackers and if violence against police is okay. And instead of asking that question, he talked about these two officers and the case involving Karon. Here's what the president said.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, USA PRESIDENT: I'm going to be letting two officers from Washington Police, D.C. I believe they're from D.C. But I just approved it. They were arrested, put in jail for five years because they went after an illegal. And I guess something happened where something went wrong and they arrested the two officers to put him in jail for going after a criminal, a rough criminal, by the way. And I'm actually releasing. No, I'm the friend of -- I am the friend of police more than any president that's ever been in this office.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: So let me just go through some fact check here. Was Karon in the country illegally?

JONES-BEY: No, he was not an illegal immigrant. He was a U.S. citizen and born.

BLACKWELL: Here in this country.

JONES-BEY: Yes.

BLACKWELL: The president said he was a rough criminal. Does that, from your understanding, accurately describe Karon Hylton-Brown?

JONES-BEY: No, I'm not aware of that.

BLACKWELL: And why do you think the president pardoned these two officers?

JONES-BEY: I'm not sure why he pardoned them. That's not really my concern. I just -- I'm not surprised. I don't know. I don't really know what to say for that.

BLACKWELL: Let me ask you this. I read for you that Officer Sutton, he says he wants to go back to the police department and finish his career. What's your reaction?

JONES-BEY: I mean, honestly, I keep up a little with the news. I don't believe this will be the first time a police officer will be going back to finish their career due to these similar circumstances or different circumstances.

BLACKWELL: Yes. I don't want just this conversation to be about Karon in death. Tell us about him in life. What kind of person was he?

JONES-BEY: He was a very good person. He was very dependable and he was also very excited to have our child. Unfortunately, it was just cut very, very short.

BLACKWELL: Amala Jones-Bey, thank you for being with me as we are trying to understand this case and the president's reasoning for pardoning those two officers. Thank you. Now it is not just migrants feeling concerned about the ramped-up

immigration enforcement ahead. Why there's concern from the Navajo Nation. And New Jersey, the mayor there of Newark says U.S. Citizens were caught up in a raid at a business there. He's joining us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:28:40]

BLACKWELL: If there is any group that should absolutely not be concerned with an immigration crackdown, it's Native Americans. And yet we spotted this message from the president of the Navajo Nation. It cites concerns and rumors his office has received this week about their citizens being detained or questioned. Buu Nygren writes, "Please be safe, aware of your surroundings, and carry valid forms of identification with you, including your Certificate of Indian birth, your state-issued driver's license, or other forms of identification." Also, a tip line has now been set up for Navajo citizens.

In New Jersey, the mayor of Newark says his city was terrorized by federal agents who detained people at a business Thursday. He says that included not just undocumented residents, but U.S. Citizens as well.

Now CNN has not been able to independently verify details of the mayor's statements, but the mayor himself. Ras Baraka, is here with us.

Mr. Mayor, thank you for your time. Just let's start with, tell us what happened at this Ocean Seafood Depot in Newark.

MAYOR RAS BARAKA, (D) NEW JERSEY: Good morning. ICE began a raid at the store. They went into the store and went in the back of the store, not just the common area. They went in the back and began to ask people for their IDs, for their papers. They took pictures of individuals. They took pictures of people's IDs. They fingerprinted a few people in there as well.

One of the gentlemen showed him a military veteran ID. They made mockery of that ID, you know, basically questioning whether it was even real. They still questioned him, you know, so there were a few people in there who were, in fact, citizens. They took three that were undocumented, as they allege. They took them away but left others in the store.

You know, so they had no warrant, they didn't ask permission. They just walked in the back of this person's store and began to detain people and ask people for their IDs and papers.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: The supporters of this deportation plan, all the way up to the Vice President have said that it will be the criminals first. Those who have committed crimes in our country, violent gang members would be the first targets. What's the impact, do you think, of this raid on your city?

BARAKA: But one, it proves that's not the truth, because they weren't going after gang members or murderers or rapists when they went into the fish market. And if they had a list, obviously they would have known those people that were in that market were not on the list.

This just stokes fear. It creates panic in our community. The next day you had businesses coming into city hall from the Guyanese community, from the other Latin communities coming into the city hall, afraid, you know, trying to get legal counsel, trying to get meetings about what's going to happen if their businesses are ran into.

People stop coming to work and people stop frequenting certain businesses. So you have business owners that are very, very afraid. Besides, the looming idea of these guys going into schools and churches have not helped as well.

BLACKWELL: You said that your city will not stand, quote, idly by while people are being unlawfully terrorized. What does that mean, practically, that Newark will not stand idly by?

BARAKA: Well, we're working with our community based organizations. Our nonprofits here provide legal counsel. We provide know your rights when places are being raided. We giving people a number to call. Call us, we'll get there, watch and see what happens, to make sure people's rights aren't being violated.

I mean, we could disagree about what people think about immigrants coming into our community, about how much money they provide to the economy, about whether there's a crime wave or not of immigrants, which is crazy. But what we can't disagree on is the Constitution of the United States. Everybody should be secure in their papers. Persons and property according to the fourth amendment. Folks cannot come into establishments, go in the back and start asking people for their papers, for their IDs. You should be secure in your persons unless somebody has a warrant.

There is no warrant, and so nobody is obligated to show you their ID or paperwork. This is a slippery slope, and we cannot allow it to be violated. Because if they do you in the daytime, they'll certainly do me in the evening.

BLACKWELL: I read that there have been other raids in your city since the raid of the seafood market. Do you know any details about those?

BARAKA: I don't. We're still getting information. You have to understand, a lot of people are afraid. Some people don't want attention brought to their -- this store owner didn't want the attention brought to his store. We tried not to give the information out, but obviously people got it anyway.

But, you know, a lot of store owners are afraid. They -- their workers won't come. And what these folks don't understand is this was. This is going to hurt our economy. Who do they think works behind any stores? Who are waiting these tables? Who are cleaning up these places? Who are working on farms providing the food to get to the restaurants in the first place?

This -- our community is a community of immigrants, some documented, some undocumented. We have mixed families here in this community. Some people are citizens through the pathways that were given to them. And because pathways have been taken away, there are folks that are waiting to become citizens that are, in fact, undocumented. Right. Because we have no consistent way to become a citizen in the United States.

BLACKWELL: Newark, New Jersey, Mayor Ras Baraka, thank you so much for your time this morning.

BARAKA: Thank you for having me.

BLACKWELL: There's breaking news we're following in Israel and Gaza. We've got a live report on that for you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:37:38]

BLACKWELL: Jury selection for the trial of a former Georgia prosecutor charged in connection with the death of Ahmaud Arbery began this week. Jackie Johnson, the former Brunswick district attorney is charged with obstruction and violating her oath office. Prosecutors plan to argue Johnson meddled in the murder investigation on behalf of her former employee Gregory McMichael and his son Travis.

Now Arbery was shot and killed on February 23, 2020, after he'd gone out for a jog. No one was arrested until two months after his killing because video of the shooting emerged. McMichael and a neighbor, William Bryan, were ultimately convicted of state murder and federal hate crime charges. Johnson has pleaded not guilty.

We're following breaking news out of the Middle East as well. Four Israeli hostages freed by Hamas are being treated at a hospital just outside of Tel Aviv.

Their helicopter landed last hour and now they're being examined and treated by doctors. We got these pictures, too of the now former hostages seeing their families for the first time since being taken by Hamas.

CNN's Bianna Golodryga live this morning from Hostage Square in Tel Aviv. You spent the morning with one of those families. Tell us about it and what's the latest?

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes, Victor, it was quite an emotional day here. I'm in Hostage Square where everyone here, thousands gathered to see the return of those four hostages and then their reunion, obviously with their families. They're going to gather around tonight for a big rally of celebration and obviously support for the remaining hostages that they are demanding come home as well.

As you noted, I spent the evening, CNN had exclusive international access to watch these hostages return with the aunt and uncle of Daniella Gilboa, one of those hostages. And you saw earlier just the videos of the raw emotion that the joy of these family members as they saw Daniella for the first time in fifteen and a half months.

And I spent quite a bit of time with her uncle Razi, who then let me know, Victor, that while he's thrilled that Daniella is home, he's also concerned about the remainder of the hostages, the 90 plus hostages that include two of his cousins. It's something I've heard from a number of people here is their gratitude to President Trump.

[08:40:05]

There seems to be a universal feeling here that this deal would not have happened without the forceful pressure from Donald Trump during his campaign and then on his inauguration day as well, surrounded by those family members of the hostages. Here's what Razi said to me about Trump's influence here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAZI SHERABI, UNCLE OF DANIELLA GILBOA: Daniella, she is a daughter of a lioness. And as a daughter of a lioness, she acts very bravely, I would say. And to see Daniella here going proud, walking proud on Hamas theater, I would say just demonstrating from what stuff she's mating for.

And all the other girls over there, they are fighters and they are proud Jewish girls who never lost hope. And I'm sure that Danielle never, Daniella, never lost hope. And we are just waiting for the moment that we will hug her and kiss her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: And Victor, that obviously was not the sound I was talking about there. You heard Rozi talk about the strength, the resilience of not only Daniella, but the three other hostages that came home as well today. But I will just paraphrase what he said about President Trump. He said it's his personality that he thinks his direct words, his forcefulness in his view of what got this deal across the finish line. And now his concern is that without that continued force and tension from President Trump on this very matter, there is concern here about phase two and phase three being implemented as well.

And of course, that would require Israel's full withdrawal from Gaza, full end of the war, and the release ultimately of the remainder of those hostages, who among them are two of his cousins, Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right, Bianna Golodryga, thank you. So, tomorrow marks five years since the death of Kobe Bryant. Next, my conversation with NBA hall of famer Tracy McGrady, who Kobe once said was the toughest player he ever faced. How he's remembering the legend and his friend.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:46:48]

BLACKWELL: A new CNN original series premiering tonight chronicles the life of Kobe Bryant, one of the greatest basketball players of all time. "Kobe: The Making of a Legend" traces Bryant's story from his childhood in Italy to his dominance on the court. It also takes an intimate look at this post NBA aspirations as a storyteller and a girl dad.

The series features personal interviews with Kobe's former coaches and teammates and family friends and reveals the conflicts and complications behind the man with the Black Mamba mentality.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Italy, Joe gets the love and appreciation and celebrity that he never got in America as an NBA player.

KOBE BRYANT, NBA LEGEND: Every time I saw my father step on the court, I got happy. I got chilled. Everybody's going crazy cheering for him and that's how we felt about my father.

LUIGI RICCI, JOURNALIST: Next to me is the very charming young Kobe Bryant, often called the little prodigy of American basketball. Earlier, he showed off his dribbling skills proving that good blood runs true.

Kobe was always on the sidelines, watching his dad. He was the towel boy, cleaning the court and picking up balls.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's getting a master class in basketball at an age when most kids are worried about where they're going to get ice cream next.

I remember asking him that question about his favorite gift and I think it was a basketball he received Christmas. I think once he got that basketball as that kid, he was never, ever going to let this go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Four NBA All-Star, seven time All-Star and friend of Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady is here. Tracy, thank you for spending a few minutes with me. It has been almost five years to the day since Kobe and Gianna's passing. What do you miss in kind of those smaller moments from your friendship? What do you miss?

TRACY MCGRADY, FORMER NBA ALL-STAR , CLOSE FRIEND OF BRYANT: Honestly, I miss his intellect. Kobe was so far ahead of his time, the way he thought. I remember back in 2000 -- 2005, in the playoffs, and I just finished the playoff game, and I saw that I had a missed call from him. So I called him after the game. I was like, what's up, man? And he was like, yo, good game, bro. Me and Vanessa, we sat here and watched the game.

And he was like, what do you think about this? And he had an idea, because previously we're both with Adidas, and he had an idea of starting an ad agency. And at the time, like, you know, what are you talking about, bro? Like, I wasn't in that mindspace. I'm just coming off a playoff game, and he's talking about starting his ad agency.

But looking back, you know, 20 years, I understood what he was talking about and why he was trying to do it, and that would have been a magnificent thing.

BLACKWELL: Were you fast friends? Tell us, what do you remember about the first time you met him?

[08:50:07]

MCGRADY: Confidence. I just -- I never met a 19, 18 or 19-year-old that had the type of confidence that he absorbed and how he felt about himself. And like he had this whole map, whole plan really mapped out for his career. But the confidence that he had at such an early age, I never seen that out of an 18 or 19-year-old kid. And this is, you know, I'm a confident kid. I came out of high school, but to hear him talk and the conversations we had, he was like this kid. He's on a different level.

BLACKWELL: Kobe called you the toughest player he had to guard in his career. What was it like? I mean, we all watch him, right? But what was it like playing against him?

MCGRADY: Let's say you had to get your sleep the night before. The ultimate competitor, man, you know, he's going to bring the best out of you. Whether he's in -- the great thing about Kobe, you don't know what he's going through, what's hurting on him. Like you can't tell because he's such a fierce competitor and he doesn't give his opponent any edge.

And it's just, you know, just the competitive spirit that he brings out of everybody when you on the court with him. I mean, you have no choice but to compete or you're going to get eight alive.

BLACKWELL: Do you know where that drive came from? Did he ever explain it?

MCGRADY: He never explained it to me. I don't know why, but I have to think that, you know, being around basketball his entire life, you know, he got the best of both worlds, honestly. He got the Euro style of basketball and then he got, you know, the North American style of basketball.

So being around that such an early age and soaking that up, I think it's either you're going to gravitate towards what you grew up around or you're going to remove yourself from that. And I think Kobe, soaking all of that in and really taking that knowledge and we see what he became.

I mean, it was just incredible of, you know, a player to really take that from an early age and turn it into something that we actually can have a conversation with him and Michael Jordan in the same conversation is just extraordinary.

BLACKWELL: Yes. You know, this documentary that's premiering tonight is really looking at the whole person. And so when you look at the whole person, not just the player, Black Mamba mentality, girl dad, entrepreneur, Oscar winner, what do you want people to take away? What do you want them to get as the picture of Kobe the man. MCGRADY: I think Kobe is a guy with, you know, a multitude of talents,

and he displayed that. I think, you know, a player that was so disciplined and understood who he was, understood what he wanted, and he went after it. And nothing was going to stop him from accomplishing that. He set his mind forward to.

And, you know, I think that the challenge was, how do you get back -- how do you get people back on your side after what he went through in early 2000? Like, how do I get these people back on my side? Because we all know that was a devastating blow to his brand and to everything that he created. And he started building on that. And you know how devastating that is, man. And you know how tough that is to get people to start liking you again.

You know, we're tough American people, man. So he started, you know, this thing with this girl dad thing, having, you know, these four girls and showing the love and showing up at these WNBA games and helping his daughter achieve their dream. And it was a beautiful thing to see because I had a son the same age as Gianna, so we used to be on the same basketball circuit. And I used to see how he just had so much joy and love and pouring into these girls, man. It was a beautiful thing to see.

BLACKWELL: Yes. Well, Tracy, thank you for spending a couple of minutes with me. Talk to me about your friend now, almost five years to the day since that tragic crash. Tracy McGrady, enjoy the day.

MCGRADY: Appreciate it. Thank you.

BLACKWELL: "Kobe: The Making of a Legend" airs tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific only on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:59:09]

BLACKWELL: The family of Martin Luther King Jr. says they would like to wait for the release of documents relating to his assassination. This week, President Trump ordered the declassification and release of documents related to the deaths of MLK, President John F. Kennedy and Senator Robert Kennedy. King and Robert F. Kennedy were assassinated within two months of one another. That was in 1968, and previous releases have shown the extent to which the FBI went to dig up dirt on King, like tapping his phone, bugging his hotel rooms, even combing through his trash cans for incriminating information.

In a statement, the family wrote, for us, the assassination of our father is a deeply personal family loss that we've endured over the last 56 years. We hope to be provided the opportunity to review the files as a family prior to its public release.

You can keep up with me and the show on Instagram, TikTok, X and Bluesky. If you miss a conversation or story, check out cnn.com/Victor-Blackwell-First-Of-All --