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First of All with Victor Blackwell
Happy Black History Month?; Trump Ramps Up Trend Of Blaming "DEI Hires" For Disasters; The True Intent Behind "DEI" That Its Critics Are Missing. Rep. Gregory Porter (D-IN), Is Interviewed About IN Gov. Leaves Funding For Martin Univ. Out Of Budget Proposal; Debate Over Boycott After Target Dropped Diversity Goals; First Complete Opera By A Black American Premieres After 130 Plus Years. Aired 8-9a ET
Aired February 01, 2025 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:00:]
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: First of all, are we still doing Black History Month? I mean, I know the calendar says February, right? But in 2025, come on now. This is a legitimate question.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does the President plan to have a proclamation about Black History Month in his first term? Each of the four years of his term, he did so and called on those in government to have programming activities and celebrations. Is he going to do that this year?
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Yes. The President looks forward to signing a proclamation celebrating Black History Month. I actually spoke with our great staff secretary. It's in the works of being approved, and it's going to be ready for the President's signature to signify the beginning of that tomorrow.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BLACKWELL: And here's that proclamation. It calls on public officials,
educators, librarians, and all the people of the United States to observe this month with appropriate programs, ceremonies, and activities. But square that with this from the Department of Defense, which declares identity months dead at DOD. According to their guidance released on the same day, the Pentagon will not use official resources, including man hours, to host celebrations or events related to Cultural Awareness Month, including Black History Month. This is where we are. And this is all part of the Trump administration's anti- DEI push. The purge of diversity, equity, and inclusion language and initiatives impacting everything from the Pentagon to the State Department. And that trickles down to government employees, to corporations, to schools, to universities. And in this environment, anti-DEI rhetoric has also baselessly been injected after the terror attack in New Orleans, the fires in Los Angeles, and now the aviation disaster in Washington, D.C.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONALD TRUMP, USA PRESIDENT: The FAA's Diversity and Inclusion hiring plan, which says diversity is integral to achieving FAA's mission of ensuring safe and efficient travel. I don't think so. I don't think so. I think it's just the opposite. They actually came out with a directive, too white and we want the people that are competent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm trying to figure out how you can come to the conclusion right now that diversity had something to do with this crash.
TRUMP: Because I have common sense, okay? And unfortunately, a lot of people don't.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLACKWELL: Well, since the President said that hours after the crash, President Trump and his administration have kept doubling down. But for all the talk of DEI being blamed for every problem, it's worth being reminded of what DEI actually means. Among the experts that CNN has spoken to, there is this shared definition. Diversity is embracing the differences everyone brings to the table, whether those are someone's race, age, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual orientation, physical ability, or other aspects of social identity. Equity is treating everyone fairly and providing equal opportunities. Inclusion is respecting everyone's voice and creating a culture in which people from all backgrounds feel encouraged to express their ideas and perspectives. But what does that mean, really, in someone's life?
I want you to hear one perspective from Kiah Duggans. In 2017, Kiah gave a talk about an initiative she started called the Princess Project. Now, this helped underrepresented high school girls in Kansas go to college. And Kiah said that she grew up without Disney princesses who looked like her. So that sparked a goal of empowering more diverse female leaders.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KIAH DUGGINS, MEMBER OF THE HARVARD LAW SCHOOL CLASS OF 2021: So let me tell you what I do know. Underrepresented students are not underrepresented because they are less smart or less capable. Black, Hispanic, native, or indigenous, first generation, undocumented and low income students are just as smart and just as capable as the students who are currently getting the opportunities that I want these underrepresented students to have as well. Secondly, I know that seeing a physical validation of your dreams can give you the courage that you need to make those dreams a reality. For example, when I was a little girl and I saw a black princess, it gave me the belief that I could be a black princess as well.
And thirdly, powerful networks can be created when people share the knowledge, the time, and the resources that they have and reach outside of themselves. I've learned that when we do not see the metaphorical black princesses in our lives, sometimes we just have to become them.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLACKWELL: Well, Kiah went on to graduate from Harvard Law. She became a civil rights attorney. She was working with a group called the Civil Rights Corps on cases of police abuse and pretrial detention. And Kiah was going to be a professor at Howard University this fall.
[08:05:06]
Now, I keep saying was because Kiah is no longer with us. She was one of the 67 people killed when the American Airlines regional jet she was on collided with a Black Hawk helicopter this week. Any previous weekend, Kiah Duggins could have been a great guest to speak with on this show about the work she was doing, about fostering diversity and taking down inequities, about why that matters. I wish we had that chance. Kiah was 30 years old.
And debating the role of DEI is fine. That's not what's happening right now. Too many are taking those three letters, using that initialism, and then calling these people DEI hires. It's a placeholder for a slur. And government resources are being used to literally erase federal DEI content online.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: It doesn't sound like a bad idea to me. DEI is, would have ruined our country and now it's dead. I think DEI is dead. So if they want to scrub the website, that's okay with me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLACKWELL: Let's bring in now Daniel Cameron. He's the former Attorney General of Kentucky. Mr. Attorney General, good morning to you. And of course, you have made it clear that you are against DEI.
DANIEL CAMERON, (R) FORMER KENTUCKY ATTORNEY GENERAL: Good morning, Victor.
BLACKWELL: So I want to get to that in a moment. But first, do you believe that it was appropriate for the president, hours after this collision and crash midweek, to suggest that DEI could have been part of the cause of that crash?
CAMERON: Well, Victor, thanks for having me on. Look, I think President Trump has even himself said that they're going to await the results of the investigation to make an actual conclusion and judgment. But ultimately, I believe that what the Federal Government is doing in this new administration of basing hiring decision based on merit, excellence, and intelligence as opposed to DEI, has really made the Federal Government the standard, if you will, for hiring the gold standard.
Look, at the end of the day, DEI is not going to secure our southern border. I just recently read that in 2022. And this isn't a right or center-right organization. McKinsey and Company actually noted that the $8 billion that was being spent on DEI projects was having no discernible difference in corporations or organizations. So this isn't just something the right or center-right is talking
about and arguing over debating. This is McKinsey and Company. This is Walmart. This is McDonald's. These are iconic brands that have made a decision to wind down their DEI policies. And, they're --
BLACKWELL: Well, they're making these decisions. They're making these decisions in large part from the pressures of attorneys general across the country and also the leadership of the president. But I do want to go back to the point that was so sharp and shocking for so many people. Let me get back to my question.
You, and many people outside of the Commonwealth of Kentucky remember you for your role in defending the grand jury's decision as it relates to Breonna Taylor's killing, in which you said, and I wrote this down, do we really want the truth or do we want a truth that fits our narrative?
And so does that not apply to an investigation about this crash? The president injected DEI when there is absolutely no evidence that it played any role in this? Are you supporting his potential search for the truth to fit his narrative, or should he just wait and let the investigators do their job?
CAMERON: Victor, I think you even heard the Press Secretary Duffy, at the Department of Transportation. You've heard numerous agency officials say that they are going to wait for the undertaking of the investigation. Even members of the United States Senate that have jurisdiction over the FAA are going to await a determination on what happened based on the investigation. But again, the idea as we started this conversation, I have to reject the premise that this is just some right or center-right attack on DEI. It is not.
This is major corporations, Fortune 100 corporations. This is a shift in the legal environment that is making corporations determined to wind down DEI simply because, again, to McKinsey and Co's point in their research, $8 billion has been spent annually on this. There's been no discernible difference.
Therefore, companies are making a judgment to get rid of those and focus on capabilities. No one's saying that diversity is a bad thing. I think as a Christian, as someone who believes in colorblind society, we want to get to that and the advocate --
[08:10:09]
BLACKWELL: But society is not colorblind. I mean, that is just the reality here. Let me read this. You are the CEO of a conservative group called 1792 Exchange. And I read one of the tweets posted, quote, "Merit, excellence and integrity should be the focus of our corporate community." I hear that's what you're saying now. I think everybody agrees with that. But DEI is required for meritocracy. Is it not?
CAMERON: No. DEI is in many ways become the reverse of what the initial goals were. Look, if you look at the executive pay at Starbucks, I know they've changed this now, but they were making judgments on executive pay, not money, on how many sips of coffee people were taking or how many cups of coffee that were being purchase. They were making it based on quotas down in the chain of command within their organization. Again, a business should be focused on making sure that they are creating the best products. Victor, you know that Michael Jordan in the 90s said that when asked why he didn't speak out on political issues as much, he said it's because Republicans buy shoes too. I think corporations should be focused on making the best products, not marginalizing customers.
And again, whether it's McKinsey and Co, whether it's McDonald's.
BLACKWELL: But I hear you and I've heard the McKinsey and Co point, but if you're going to let me give you an example.
CAMERON: Well, let me also say, if you don't mind.
BLACKWELL: Go ahead.
CAMERON: McDonald's in their statement on why they were winding down their DEI policies, did it because of the legal landscape having shifted because of the fair admissions case.
BLACKWELL: But that's the point that I'm making. You suggest that these corporations -- you suggest that these corporations are changing their DEI policies of some epiphany, that they're going to get better employees if they eliminate them. And a lot of the arguments against DEI suggest that it is a replacement of meritocracy. My suggestion here is to consider is that you need DEI for a meritocracy. Let me give you an example here.
You mentioned Fortune 500 companies. Let's say an engineering firm, right? Engineering firm goes out to schools, 10 schools every spring. And they go to the biggest engineering schools to recruit. Now, what we know about engineering majors is that they're predominantly white males. So if you go to those big programs and you hire based on meritocracy, it's more likely you're going to hire more white males, because that's your pool.
Now, if that firm said, we'll go to a couple of those schools and a couple of HBCUs and a couple of Hispanic serving institutions, a couple of women's colleges, but they still use that same meritocracy system. They change no standards. That is DEI.
DEI is not replacing the meritocracy. It guarantees access to the meritocracy. They don't lower their standards. They broaden the people who are available, the people who have access. Because if you go to just those schools, those same schools with the same demographic, that is legacy, that is nepotism, that is favoritism. That is the opposite of a meritocracy, is it not? I mean, to call these people, to call people who get jobs the best and the brightest, they got to compete against everybody at the same level, correct?
CAMERON: Victor, there's no magic in the terms or words DEI. What you just described is a good headhunter, is a good recruiter at a corporation, not somebody who needs to spend or not a corporation that needs to spend $8 billion within their organization to make that determination. You and I have been on this, having this conversation for the last five minutes, and recognize that if you want to get the best and brightest talent, if you're a recruiter, you've got to grow across the country. There's no question of that.
BLACKWELL: That is equity.
CAMERON: What DEI has become is the reverse.
BLACKWELL: That's the equity, Mr. Attorney General. That's the equity that people.
CAMERON: I'm sorry?
BLACKWELL: But that's equity. Because anybody can. Using this example of the --
CAMERON: That's good recruiting.
BLACKWELL: But no, this is the example. But let me. This is the example of equity. Like anybody can apply for one of these jobs, but if they only take the job fair and take the recruiters to a specific demographic, then the other people do not have that equal footing. Everybody should meet with the recruiter. Everybody should have the face to face. So that's the equity inclusion is bringing in these other schools. That is what many who are against DEI supports. It's not just a good recruiter. That's DEI programming.
[08:15:09]
CAMERON: No, no, it is a good recruiter. If you are telling me that you have a recruiter within an organization that is not going to as many schools as possible to find the best talent, that's a poor recruiter. That has nothing to do with three words that over time have been boiled down to quotas and have ultimately become the reverse, indiscrimination, exclusion, and intolerance. That is what DEI has become to so many. And that is why, again, you've seen so many companies make the determination to get rid of it.
And as I noted other earlier, the fair admissions case from the Supreme Court has really changed the legal landscape here. As I noted, McDonald's in their own declaration as to why they were winding down their DEI policy, said because of the legal landscape, it is no longer wise for us to have DEI policies.
BLACKWELL: And that legal landscape is not just by chance. In the last five years, that legal landscape is not just by chance. That is something that a lot of money has been invested in to create a landscape where DEI can be hovered up. I've got, I got a rap here. I'll give you the last 30 seconds here and then I got to go.
CAMERON: Yes, well, look, you can find a conspiracy theory anywhere you want to look. But at the end of the day, the United States Supreme Court has made a judgment and decision that discrimination in the form of DEI or quotas is discrimination, regardless of what we might want to ultimately call it. And because of that, a lot of these companies have made a judgment in that legal landscape that they have to wind down their DEI policies.
BLACKWELL: Former Kentucky Attorney General Daniel Cameron, let's do this again. I appreciate you coming on and having the conversation. All right. Thanks so much.
CAMERON: God bless you, Victor.
BLACKWELL: You too. Now, President Trump blamed DEI as the reason, as we said, for that midair collision over Washington, D.C. When pressed on the reason, he said, quote, "I have common sense." While a retired military and commercial pilot joins us next to respond.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [08:221:49]
BLACKWELL: All right, let's continue this conversation about DEI, which hit a nerve when President Trump attacked diversity programs in the aviation industry. Captain James Simons is here to share his perspective. He's a retired pilot for both the Air Force and a major commercial airline and he's a member of the board of advisors for the Organization of Black Aerospace Professionals.
Captain, good morning to you. Did you hear that conversation that I had with AG Cameron?
CAPT. JAMES SIMONS (RET.), FORMER AIRLINE CHIEF PILOT AND PILOT SUPERVISOR: Good morning, Victor. And yes, I did. And before I start --
BLACKWELL: Go ahead.
SIMONS: Before I start, I really want to extend our deepest condolences to the families that have been affected by this recent tragic midair collision and also the crash last night in Philadelphia. Our hearts really go out to the victims and their loved ones during this incredibly difficult time and our focus is on supporting those impacted by these tragedies.
BLACKWELL: Understood and appreciated. Tell me what you thought about the AG's view on DEI and its role in government hiring, corporate hiring.
SIMONS: I'm sorry, can you repeat the question?
BLACKWELL: Yes. The question is, what did you think of what you heard there? The former AG's view on using DEI and DEI programs in hiring?
SIMONS: Well, we strongly reject that DEI is used by governmental corporations in the hiring process. DEI and diversity and excellence are not mutually exclusive. A strong, diverse workforce is essential for safety and also not only for corporations, but for the aviation industry.
BLACKWELL: And so how did the president's suggestion this week that possibly diverse hiring practices was a cause for the crash, how did that reverberate in your organization and through the aeronautics industry?
SIMONS: We're deeply concerned by the administration's comments concerning diversity hiring and aviation and air traffic control. Aviation pilots, air traffic controllers, they are all, regardless of background, they're exposed and expected to maintain the highest competency and physiological and psychological aptitude. So as far as DEI, the standard is the standard. It doesn't matter your background, who you are. The same standard is met by everyone that's involved in this industry.
BLACKWELL: Kevin James Simons, thank you so much for your time this morning and your service to our country.
Indiana has one predominantly black institution and the governor has allocated $0 in his budget for it. I'll speak with a state representative who says the decision is racist. Plus I'll speak with an author who's telling fans not to buy his book at Target anymore. As activists launch a boycott of the store. Starting today.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:29:41]
BLACKWELL: Well, the Trump administration's anti-DEI crusade is having a cascading effect on historically black colleges and universities, too. This week, Rutgers University Center for Minority Serving Institutions canceled a virtual conference designed to showcase voices and experiences from HBCUs. Trump's new executive orders have stripped initiatives like this one of federal funding. And it's not just on a federal level. In Indiana, a state legislator says that funding for their only predominantly black serving university, Martin University is being cut and he believes the decision is based on race. With me now is Indiana State Representative Gregory Porter. Representative Porter, good morning to you. You go further than saying it's based on race. You call the governor's decision just flat out racist, stark indictment. Why do you say that?
REP. GREGORY PORTER (D-IN): You know because the -- the trend that you indicated earlier across this nation and here Indiana, Martin University is the only predominantly black university here in the state of Indiana. It's been around since 1977. We have the dollars that were sent there were tried to help first generation students. It was trying to do STEM, trying to create partnership with their workforce development and things like that.
Also within his budget proposal, he cut 15 percent out of several programs that dealt with African American or predominantly black companies that we have here within the -- the state of Indiana. He eliminated the women's commission dollars, he eliminated Native American dollars. The civil rights, he cut 15 percent out of Civil Rights Commission. So this is all what he's done in his proposed budget for the upcoming two years.
BLACKWELL: But the governor is also calling for a 5 percent cut from state agencies across the board. I mean, are these cuts not just part of broader cuts to slim the government? PORTER: Well, 5 percent when you cut 15 percent out of one agency which is the Civil Rights Commission. So but we are looking at a 5 percent cut in general. But he's also taking those dollars and moving them other places within his -- his budget. So we're very concerned about that. So, you know, African Americans, women and people put to our state dollars, tax dollars, we should also reciprocate and have programs that -- that help us to uplift us here in the state of Indiana.
BLACKWELL: Let me read a statement that we got in from the governor's office. It says Martin University is a private university that received a one-time allotment in the last budget cycle. In fact, the president of Martin University informed the governor's office that the university knew it was one time funding, did not ask for additional funding and does not expect to be included in this budget. However, you call this decision racist. What's your response to this from the governor's office?
PORTER: From our perspective, from my perspective at the governor's office, we give through Freedom of Choice Grants, we give over $160 million to private universities. And so Martin is a university with very unique. A university that looks at non-traditional students. A university that looks at mature students. And those are students that have started education, but because life happens, have fallen out -- fallen out and now want to go back to school.
They can say what they want to. They can do what they want to in regards to one time, however, it was at one time like a pilot project, as we would say. But they also had to do certain things that other universities that receive dollars like Marion University for a nursing program, they had to do things that they did not have to account for.
So the notion that it's just a one time, anything's a one time. You -- I think from our perspective, it is -- needs to move forward and continue to help those students embrace Indianapolis, period.
BLACKWELL: So this is -- this is the governor's budget. This is where negotiations begin, right? But there is a Republican super majority in both chambers. You got a Republican governor there. How do you get it done? If you -- if you were determined to get that money from Martin in this climate, how do you do it?
PORTER: Well, as a member of the -- ranking member of Ways and Means who work on the budget, I will continue to advocate. We need to have -- we need to look at the outcomes that Martin has done. They have done what they said they were going to do. If we -- Martin University should be and can be part of the workforce development that we have in the state of Indiana. They talk about workforce development in Martin University. We -- we have those students that are there, that can move forward and -- and work within, you know, the state of Indiana. It's a negotiation factor.
BLACKWELL: Yes.
PORTER: We will continue to ask. We -- we have economic -- I have four bites of economic apple. The governor's proposal, the House proposal, the Senate proposal, and then we go to conference committee. We will be advocating all the way through -- through the end of the conference committee.
BLACKWELL: Indiana State Representative Gregory Porter we'll be watching it. Thank you so much.
[08:34:52]
So after Target dropped their DEI program, some are calling for a boycott starting today. Is that the right way to respond? I'll ask an author who is asking readers not to buy his books at the stores.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLACKWELL: How do you celebrate Black History Month? Target says that they hope it's by buying black at their Target stores. And they've done this for years now. But this year's initiative comes soon after the company announced that they are rolling back diversity, equity and inclusion goals put in place in 2022. And now a national group called We Are Somebody is calling for a boycott of Target stores and encouraging people to buy from minority owned businesses directly instead.
[08:40:16]
Frederick Joseph is taking a similar position. He is a two-time bestselling author. His latest book is the upcoming novel "This Thing of Ours." Frederick, good morning to you. I want to start with the boycott and then get to some deeper issues because your substack was about more than just retail sales, but it was entitled don't buy my books at Target. Why? Why is that your directive?
FREDERICK JOSEPH, BESTSELLING AUTHOR CALLING OUT TARGET: So the reality of it is many companies and institutions have been announcing their rollback of DEI. And what that means is that they're no longer going to be investing publicly in black and brown and marginalized communities, when in reality they spent the last five years or so since 2020 making money by saying that they were invested in said communities, right? So essentially trying to ride a trend that isn't really a trend.
What we understand is that DEI not only makes companies better, but it improves the climate for the workplace for people who are at these institutions, at these companies. And so for me, who's had a good relationship with Target, I've had national campaigns rolled out there for my books. I've had exclusive editions of my books at Target. I don't want to be a part of a pendulum swing of capitalism, right?
If you're going to invest in me and my community and other communities that I care about, it has to be consistent. And if not, then I'm not going to support you and I'm not going to have my readers support you.
BLACKWELL: And so you obviously want to still continue to sell books. I searched for your titles at Walmart, sold there. Amazon sold there as well. They've scaled back their commitment to diversity, equity, inclusion. Are you also asking for people not to buy your books there or is there something unique about Target? What I've heard is that Target was so deliberate about their outreach to black readers, specifically black women. And then the pullback seems so more -- so much more dramatic or drastic. Are you signaling out or singling out Target for a reason?
F. JOSEPH: Well, I think multiple things are true at the exact same time. So to the first point about singling out Target, I have a deep relationship with Target. And so I don't have a deep relationship with Amazon, I don't have a deep relationship with Walmart. But still the focus is on any company that has rolled back DEI, any company not invested in marginalized communities or companies that took advantage, quite frankly, of the 2020 and 2021 moment after the murder of George Floyd.
I've asked people to support black-owned businesses, women-owned businesses, businesses owned by marginalized communities. So the focus is not just Target. The focus is actually taking our dollars, our resources, our capital, and leaning into the fact that if you want us, you have to support us as well.
BLACKWELL: Tabitha Brown has products in Target. And, you know, she understands the boycott. She's not telling people what to do specifically. And she added that she has a year left on her contract with Target and then she'll make a decision. But I want to play a portion of the video that she posted on social media in response to their rollback of DEI.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TABITHA BROWN, ACTRESS, AUTHOR: Because if we start doing the, I'm not shopping there, and it's our businesses that are in there, that's their way that they would clean us out and -- and replace us and say, well, your business is not performing. That's what people want. We can't give them what they want.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: Again, she's not telling people what to do or what not to do. But what's your reaction to that philosophy?
F. JOSEPH: Yes. I -- I can't speak to Tabitha Brown necessarily. I don't know her or what her contract situation of Target is. But what I lean into is the principles of change in this country, right? We've seen it with the Montgomery bus boycott and many other boycotts that this company, I mean, excuse me, this country is a capitalistic country. And so if you want anything to change, oftentimes you have to hit people in their wallets.
And so I lean into that, right, as an individual, as a person who does have products in Target, I -- I can't speak to other black and brown people telling people to continue to shop there. I don't know that benefits the vast majority of people. The average person doesn't have products and is making millions of dollars in Target. The average person is now not being supported by Target publicly. Not only publicly, but if I'm mistaken, if I remember correctly, Target rolled that out just eight days before Black History Month and then also have the unmitigated goal to then ask black people on the first day of Black History Month to then also shop with them, you know.
[08:45:07]
So for me, again, I lean into the historic principles of what has moved the needle in this country. And it has been black boycott, it has been capitalistic boycott, it has been resource boycotts.
BLACKWELL: You said that this is a momentary bending to the pressures of public opinion, rather at any genuine investment in justice. And now the pendulum swings back. Final question here, is it your expectation that it will swing again?
F. JOSEPH: I mean, I don't know that my expectation is that it will swing again because my hope is that we'll break the pendulum, right? That's the entire point that I made earlier on, is that DEI is not a trend. And it shouldn't be. Maybe for companies and capitalism it is. But for, you know, the marginalized communities who come into these spaces and need to feel safe and need to have be given opportunities to help undo the -- the -- the bigotry in these institutions, again, it's not -- it's not a trend.
And so my -- my hope is that we break the pendulum as opposed to swinging it back, because if we don't, that is exactly what will happen. We'll see it become popularized again to support black and brown and other marginalized people, and then, you know, they'll do that for five years and then we'll swing back here. And -- and so once again, it's right now it's about telling companies you're not going to treat my existence as a trend. You will either support me or I will not support you.
BLACKWELL: Frederick Joseph, good place to end there. Thank you so much for being with me this morning. And his book, "This Thing of Ours" comes out in May.
Coming up, the story behind an inspiring piece of art that sparked this reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATRICK QUIGLEY, INCOMING ARTISTIC DIRECTOR, OPERA LAFAYETTE: For me, it was like seeing the Shroud of Turin. I -- I mean, I spent some time crying.
GIVONNA JOSEPH, FOUNDER AND ARTISTIC DIRECTOR, OPERACREOLE: I did too. I did too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:51:12]
BLACKWELL: It's been a heavy morning, right? A lot of big subjects today. And whenever I need a break from it all, I turn to art. I mean, I turn to art for a lot. But as we're kicking off Black History Month, I wanted to share something different this morning. This is the story of an opera forgotten in the pages of a -- a manuscript for more than 130 years. For our latest edition of Art is Life, I spoke with the duo introducing Edmond Dede to the world. They're calling his opera, Morgiane, the most important opera never heard and it is finally getting a world premiere.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC)
GIVONNA JOSEPH, FOUNDER AND ARTISTIC DIRECTOR, OPERACREOLE: I'm Givonna Joseph, I'm from New Orleans, Louisiana, founder and artistic director of OperaCreole.
PATRICK QUIGLEY, INCOMING ARTISTIC DIRECTOR, OPERA LAFAYETTE: I'm Patrick Quigley, I'm from Washington D.C. And I am the incoming artistic director of Opera Lafayette.
This opera was written in 1887. And it was discovered in the collection of Harvard University during the middle of the 2000s, which is the place that both of us came to this piece separately.
G. JOSEPH: I just had a feeling that the music was going to be phenomenal as well. And I just immediately, I said, this just has to be. It has to be done.
Edmond Dede was a fourth generation free man of color. He was raised in a wonderful musical environment of New Orleans and he was able to make his way to the Paris Conservatoire where he studied and began working in Bordeaux.
Just the magnitude of the fact that this man, a free composer of color, born in New Orleans in 1827, wrote this opera. And there it was in two volumes, 550 pages, full orchestra in French with a ballet and all this wonderful, the history of it was -- was phenomenal.
QUIGLEY: It is beautiful, charming, witty, serious.
G. JOSEPH: As accomplished as he was not really an odd or outlier in New Orleans. Many people don't know that New Orleans had its first opera season in 1796, and it -- and we debuted over 200 operas there with free men of color. If somebody could do this in the middle of the 1900s, when slavery was going on and all kinds of craziness, that we -- we can do whatever we want to do and be whoever we want to be.
QUIGLEY: Dede returned to New Orleans in the 1890s, and they did not allow him to perform for white audiences, only segregated black audiences. And I would want him to know that two people who were born in New Orleans, who met across the country, who are working musicians now, got together and made sure that he was heard by everyone and that he is recognized by everyone as a great American musician.
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[08:55:23]
BLACKWELL: Our thanks to OperaCreole and Opera Lafayette, the Historic New Orleans Collection, and the Louisiana Philharmonic Orchestra for sharing that footage of the preview performance with us. Morgiane's full premiere will happen on Monday at the Lincoln Theater in Washington, D.C. and then it will premiere in New York at Lincoln center on the 5th and at the University of Maryland on February 7th. So for more information, visit OperaLafayette.org.
Keep up with me on Instagram, TikTok, X, Bluesky, somebody told me over the weekend that I need to get on Spill, so I'm going to try that. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for watching this morning. Smerconish is up after the break.
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