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First of All with Victor Blackwell

Planning For The Future? In This Economy?; American Pessimism About Economy Hits 73-Year High; Economic Uncertainty Exacerbates Racial Wealth Gap; Idaho Teen Shot By Police Is Declared Brain-Dead; Laid Off HHS Leaders Offered To Transfer To Remote Locations; Black Caddies Honored At Augusta National Golf Club. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired April 12, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:01:15]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Well, first of all, you know, in this economy, some days ignorance really is bliss. I mean, you probably heard this a lot this week. Do not check your 401(k). I get it. I didn't check mine. I get the advice. This on again, off again, on again. For some countries, trade war keeps the market on a roller coaster.

There's a lot of uncertainty. But the reality for a lot of people is that their retirement has been on shaky ground for a while now. And the severity of the impact, like most things we talk about here, depends on not just how old you are, but who you are. So, consider this. Black workers 51 to 64 are the least likely among all racial and ethnic groups to have a retirement account. That's according to the Government Accountability Office.

And looking at reports from the Federal Reserve, the Aspen Institute recently found that black households have an average retirement account, the balance of $38,300. For Hispanic households, it's $27,300. And compare that to the average balance without pensions for white families, $168,000. So as those savings take a hit and an already wide racial wealth gap risks widening. What now?

Well, John Hope Bryant is here to talk about this. He's the founder and CEO of Operation Hope and John Hope Bryan Enterprises. He's also the author of books including Financial Literacy for All, which is an issue he recently met with Trump's Treasury Secretary, Scott Bessant to discuss. We'll talk about Bessant in a moment. But first, thanks for coming in.

JOHN HOPE BRYANT, FOUNDER AND CEO, OPERATION HOPE: Honored to be with you.

BLACKWELL: So there is that old adage that when America catches a cold, black people get pneumonia. In this case, it may be broader than just black people. But what do you see as the disparities in this moment that we should look out for? BRYANT: Well, people don't seem to realize that 70 percent of this

economy, the biggest economy in the world, which is the U.S. economy, 70 percent is consumer spending. It's just folks going to restaurants, paying car notes, paying rent, paying mortgages, going to breakfast that's driving the biggest economy on the planet. And half of those who make $100,000 a year, just so people don't think this is poor people, are making a living from paycheck to paycheck. So, if you're making $100,000 a year, half of those watching are living from paycheck to paycheck. A quarter of those making $250,000 a year, same thing, paycheck to paycheck. 72 percent of our respondents at Operation Hope reported that they were living paycheck to paycheck.

Normally, they're very optimistic. By the way, my respondents are typically more optimistic, my clients, than the average American, because the tools we give them. But you know, this country, we live on sentiment, we live on energy. This is not a country. She's an idea. We can make her anything we want. She has to have an optimistic perspective and she has to have a business plan for the future.

And I think we're missing the business plan and people are sort of feeling a little lost. But it's really important. That stat I just gave you is everything like, and it's a reason why the way you have trade deficits, I mean, people think that trade deficits are somehow a negative thing. It's actually a suggestion. It is actually an indication of a very healthy economy. If you have this robust economy that's self-generating, internally generating, you're not exporting a lot because you're in a knowledge economy.

You're importing a lot, which need to be exporting is high tech things and artificial intelligence, robotics and things like that. But you're going to have an imbalance if you're trying to bring cheap things in because you're not making those things anymore. That's the business plan you used to have that was 70 years ago in the Industrial revolution.

So there are ways to grow this economy. Cutting yourself out of it. Cutting yourself out of a crisis is not the best way to solve our problem.

[08:10:10]

BLACKWELL: You move to the tariff conversation. What do you make of the decision by the President not to ratchet up tariffs after China went to 125 percent?

BRYANT: The decision he made not to ratchet up because he'd already ratcheted up tariffs.

BLACKWELL: Yes, but since the so called Liberation Day when China retaliated, the U.S. retaliated, China retaliated again and then the U.S. responded. After this latest increase from China, 225 percent, we didn't see another increase from the U.S. Do you see that as a moment as now this, there can be some negotiation now there can be some conversation because we didn't see another increase from the U.S.

BRYANT: I want to give the President full, you know, birth to be able to negotiate and I don't want to get in the middle of his policy discussions. And so I don't want to get into the details what moves he's making. I hope he's making the right moves regarding China. China is a problem, by the way.

I mean China has been at war with America for at least a decade. Economically, it is a problem we have got to solve. They're stealing our intellectual property rights. They are -- it's a lot of very serious things going on. It needs to be addressed. I hope he can address it.

The rest of the world, many, most of the world are actually our allies, our friends. And we should not probably be punishing our friends and appeasing our enemies. So I'm glad that there was a rebalancing of the approach this week. China is a, again, I don't want to get in. I was just with the Secretary of the Treasury last week. I'll see him again at the end of the month. Trying to talk about things that we can control, which is growing the economy.

China wants to be U.S. man. And unless we want to be speaking Mandarin in 20 or 30 years, we got to figure out whether we're better together. So, this is a short-term issue, this issue we're talking about here. This is going to be solved one way or another in the next couple months. We've got a longer-term issue, more structural issue about who are we and what do we want to be.

You sort of suggested that some of this, we talk about the statistics of African Americans vis a vis everybody else want savings. I don't see savings, investment, ownership. I don't see that as a problem. I see it as an opportunity.

If you have people who want to be part of the economy, who want to be successful, they do. We do. 44 percent of us own a home, compared to 75 percent of our white counterparts. That 30 percent, the number one way you build wealth in America is homeownership. That Delta, that difference is wealth creation is tax revenue. It's paying your vendors like plumbers, heaters, electricians, lighting, roofing. It's a ripple effect that starts with ownership and an opportunity. And there's so many examples of that. So, yes, I mean, I'd rather focus on things I can control versus things I can't.

BLACKWELL: There's something you said several times and it was a quote on the list of notes you sent to my producer. There's not enough college educated white men in America to sustain the economic growth needed to keep the US as the global superpower. Explain that.

BRYANT: So, there's just been a lot of ridiculous conversations recently. It's really wasting everybody's time. DEI and all this stuff. I mean, I could give a dang about DEI. Kill it. Kill the program. It's dead. It's been weaponized. It's been politicized. I could care less. Diversity is actually an American strength. Most we're in Atlanta. It's the 10th largest economy in the United States. It's the biggest economy in the traditional South. It's the only international city in the south.

The same GDP as Singapore, by the way. And it's highly diverse. Most American cities are producing GDP for this country. They're highly diverse. Most successful companies are highly diverse. It's not my opinion. It's just I like math because it doesn't have an opinion. So, here's the math.

I want every Caucasian man who's got a college degree and higher income producing to be as successful as he possibly can. We need them, the economy needs them. There's just not enough of them to go around. So even if folks say, well, let's put minorities, you're not, you shouldn't be doing this. All this ridiculous conversation we're having. If that happened, we'd fail. Because if we had every Caucasian man who is able to succeed in the economy, the GDP can't grow on that. There's just not enough of them. 40% of this country is black and brown today. Within 10 years it will be a majority of minorities.

So, my rich friends need my poor friends to do better, if only to stay rich. So, the color's not black or brown or black or white or red or blue.

BLACKWELL: Green.

BRYANT: The color is green. And we need all of us at the economic table to succeed. So, it's really an indication that we are in this battle. We're in this together, and we're better together, or we'll die as fools. I think it's biblical.

BLACKWELL: John Hope Bryant, thank you for coming in.

BRYANT: My honor.

[08:10:07]

BLACKWELL: An immigration judge says that pro-Palestinian student activist Mahmoud Khalil can be deported. What does this decision mean for him? For free speech, for civil liberties going forward? Two members of his legal team are here.

Plus protests in a small Idaho city after police shot a teen with autism several times. He was seen with a knife, but his family says that officers totally botched the response, and they share a devastating update.

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[08:15:15]

BLACKWELL: Well, it appears now that the door is open for pro- Palestinian protesters who were here from other countries to be deported after a major decision in the case of Mahmoud Khalil. Khalil is a legal person, permanent resident president, pro-Palestinian protest at Columbia University last spring, the judge ordered the government to hand over evidence against Khalil that justified deporting him. What the government gave the judge included a memo from Secretary of State Marco Rubio that Khalil's lawyers say was the sole basis for the judge's ruling.

It alleges that Khalil has, quote, "beliefs, statements or associations that could compromise U.S. Foreign policy." Well, the judge ultimately ruled that's enough and Khalil can be deported. Well, Khalil's wife, Noor Abdallah, is an American citizen. She is pregnant, set to give birth in less than a month. And she reacted to the decision in a statement, and here's part of it.

She says that, "My husband is a political prisoner who is being deprived of his rights because he believes Palestinians deserve equal dignity and freedom. There's nothing the government can say about my husband that can silence this truth. This ruling is an indictment of our country's immigration system and does not reflect truth, justice, or the will of the American people."

Two members of Mahmoud Khalil's legal team are with us. Baher Azmy is legal director of the center for Constitutional Rights. And Ramzi Kassem is a law professor at the City University of New York. He's also the co-founder and co-director of Clear, a legal nonprofit and clinic that represents Mahmoud Khalil as well as Rumeysa Ozturk and other students detained or at risk of detention by ICE.

Gentlemen, welcome to you and Baher, let me start with you. I understand that you will appeal, and this is the immigration judge. But first, your reaction to this removability finding.

BAHER AZMY, MEMBER OF MAHMOUD KHALIL'S LEGAL TEAM: Yes, it was really a shameful, disgraceful process. The whole thing felt like a show trial. The judge had her mind made up from the beginning, was extraordinarily hostile. Didn't care about the Constitution, didn't care at all about legal process, didn't care at all about the validity or the quantity of evidence. And she just agreed that if a government official, if an executive officer says so, then I will agree with them no matter what. Despite the absence of any analysis and despite the chilling implications of that executive say so, which is that someone can be arrested, detained and deported simply because they disagree with the U.S. Foreign policy interests or simply disagree with U.S. Foreign policy. So it's a chilling decision that we will appeal or seek relief from the federal court.

BLACKWELL: Ramzi, there are two parallel processes happening here. This is the immigration court in Louisiana. There's also the case in New Jersey. So, although this immigration judge says that he can be deported, he won't immediately be deported, obviously, because of the appeal. But also, there's this other process. How does one influence the other if they do it all?

RAMZI KASSEM, MEMBER OF MAHMOUD KHALIL'S LEGAL TEAM: Yes, thanks for that question, Victor. I mean, one way to look at it is that the immigration case in Louisiana. Well, that's the government's case, right? That is an administrative court that's before not an independent judge, but a functionary of the government who serves at the pleasure of the president. And this is a president who, you know, a month and a half ago fired half of the immigration appellate judges, all the Biden appointees. So that tells you something about how politicized the immigration process is. And it's precisely the reason why the government has done everything it can to drive the case through that immigration process, to accelerate that case as much as possible to an unusual degree, to arrive at this foreordained conclusion. Everybody knew that the president's employee was going to rule, the president wanted.

And so, this finding of removability is not the least bit surprising. No one is fooled by that. The federal case, on the other hand, well, that's Mahmoud's case. That is the case where in federal court, in front of an Independent Article 3 Judge Mahmoud is pressing for liberty under the writ of habeas corpus, and he wants to be freed from this unlawful and unconstitutional detention that was entirely in retaliation for something very simple, the fact that he spoke up that in support and in defense of Palestinian lives and freedom, something that should be frankly celebrated and applauded and not punished or retaliated against. But even if you disagree with it, this is a country where we value free speech. And Mr. Khalil should be able to say what he wants to say without risking being taken to a nice detention center in Louisiana and deported by.

[08:20:13]

BLACKWELL: Baher, I want you to listen to the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, this week at that Cabinet meeting. And I should say before we play this, that Khalil was a legal permanent resident. He did not have a student visa. But that's the context in which we heard from the secretary. Let's play it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: If you come to this country as a student, we expect you to go to class and study and get a degree. If you come here to, like, vandalize a library, take over a campus and do all kinds of crazy things, you know, we're going to get rid of these people and we're going to continue to do it. So, when we identify lunatics like these, we take away their student visa. No one's entitled to a student visa.

The press covers student visas like there's some sort of birthright. No, a student visa is like me inviting you into my home. If you come into my home and put all kinds of crap on my couch, I'm going to kick you out of my house.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: And that got some laughs in the room. I wonder what you -- there's some people agree with the secretary, right. What do you say in response to that, Baher?

AZMY: I really don't know what to say. It's some of the silliest, most vapid analysis you could hear from someone who's supposedly taken an oath to the Constitution Institution, you know, doesn't apply in any way to Mahmoud Khalil or the other students. They've disappeared off the streets and scurried to Louisiana. We're not talking about some petty crimes here. We're talking about speech and beliefs that the United States finds so dangerous, so intolerable in this country that the United States government is scared of it and therefore has to banish people who hold those beliefs. It's just like a shameful form of repression. And his sort of high dudgeon doesn't reflect the actual dangerousness of his position. BLACKWELL: Ramzi, I mentioned at the top that you also represent

Ramesa Ozturk. She was a student who shared a byline on an op ed, and we showed the video of her being detained on a street corner near her university. Does this ruling from this immigration judge in Khalil's case portend anything for her case?

KASSEM: Thanks, Victor. I mean, for Ms. Ozturk (ph), actually, this ruling has no bearing whatsoever. We're going to be in court in federal court in Vermont on her habeas corpus case. She's also held in Louisiana, but we're fighting for her freedom in a federal court in Vermont. We'll be there on Monday to argue that the court has jurisdiction to order her release. Then we'll also argue for the court to set bail so that she can be or to order the government to release her with no bail funds imposed. Because again, the government's only contention in Ms. Ozturk's case is that she co-authored an op ed where she called on Tufts as a university to adhere by a student senate resolution.

Again, in defense of Palestinian human rights, something that should be celebrated and not punished. And there's another case that I should mention. We also represent Yunseo Chung, where were able to get a temporary restraining order from a federal court here in New York, barring ICE from detaining her. So she's at liberty and she will fight as well for her constitutionally protected right to defend human rights worldwide and to defend her fellow students.

BLACKWELL: Razmi Kassem, Baher Azmy, thank you both for the conversation.

AZMY: Thank you, Victor.

BLACKWELL: A small city in Idaho is dealing with a shocking tragedy. A teenager with autism holding a knife, shot multiple times by police. We'll show you the video of what happened. Plus the moment that the men who called 911, hoping that they'd help, approach the team's family to apologize.

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[08:28:28]

BLACKWELL: I want to tell you about a boy named Victor Perez. He's 17 years old and the tragedy of what happened to him a week ago. It just happened so quickly. There's video of it, and we want to warn you that it is disturbing, but let me explain it to you while you're watching it.

The owner of an auto shop nearby filmed this, and you can see Victor in his backyard with a knife. The shop's owner's son called 911. He did not know Victor. He told police the person with the knife seemed drunk. The caller also told police the Victor seemed to be struggling with two people in the backyard. But the caller could not understand what they were saying because they were speaking Spanish.

Now in this next clip, you see police arrive. Within seconds, they start shooting over the fence. Eyewitnesses say that the officers did not speak with the people with Victor before they started shooting. So, the officers did not know that they were his relatives. Relatives who say that they were shouting for them not to shoot. Relatives who were shouting that Victor was special. So, the officers did not know that Victor has autism and cerebral palsy.

The family says nine bullets were removed from Victor's body. His leg was amputated. Since that day, Victor has been in a coma, and his family and community, they prayed for him to make it out. But overnight, his family says that doctors told them that he's brain dead. And we understand from our affiliate Therano (ph), Idaho, that the family plans to take Victor off life support today.

His aunt, Ana Vasquez, was booked to join us this morning before this awful update. But as you can imagine, she's distraught. I'm distraught. She sent us these pictures we've been showing of Victor and also videos like this one. You can see him eating with his family. She sent us another one of Victor laughing on the phone. You know, when we tell these stories, I like to share what the subjects of our stories were like in life as well, not just in their final moments.

Ana Vasquez was supposed to be with us. She was ready to come on. But after that news, we all decided that it was best that she be with her family today. On Thursday, the mayor of Pocatello said that the four officers involved were placed on administrative leave per city policy, and that there are criminal, external and internal investigations underway.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR BRIAN BLAD, POCATELLO, IDAHO: The Pocatello community has experienced a tragic event. And we are all reeling from what happened, especially the Perez family. Please know this incident has my full attention. The city council and I do not take what happened lightly. We expect to release body camera footage in coming weeks. We truly recognize the difficulty and pain of this situation. Everyone is looking for answers, including me and the city council.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Now, as for the auto shop owner who witnessed what happened, he says he and his son who called 911, are traumatized by the police response. And they actually met with Ana, Victor's aunt, to grieve with her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had no idea this would happened. Sorry.

ANNA VASQUEZ, VICTOR PEREZ'S AUNT: I know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you doing okay?

VAZQUEZ: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm so sorry. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe terrible things when I made that call. I

believe they were trained. I believe somebody talked to all those officers and told them how to deal with this. And I'm sorry that I make the -- that I told. I know Victor was not drunk. In my life experience, I look at someone acting that way and that's what I thought could have been. I'm sorry for accusing that.

VAZQUES: The problem is not the call. The problem is that the police act based on the call. Like how can you react based one call? Why you didn't came here? I have family that works in police as a federal, as a correctional, as a state police. And all of them, as soon as they come to a place, they ask what is the situation? And they did it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you for talking to me. I didn't know if you were going to talk or not. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was all there. It was all obvious.

VASQUEZ: Well, the police look like they don't care. They don't care.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hope your family does well. Again, I'm sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again, I'm very sorry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Well, this week the community rallied to call for justice for Victor. Here's how the police chief explained his officer's actions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF ROGER SCHEL, POCATELLO, IDAHO POLICE: In situations like this, officers must make decisions in seconds. They assess threats not just to themselves, but to those nearby. In this case, two individuals were within a few feet of an armed non-compliant individual. The risk was immediate and the situation rapidly evolving.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: CNN senior law enforcement analyst Charles Ramsey is with us. Chief, good morning to you. As the mayor says that there are criminal, external and internal investigations underway. But before I go in with specific questions, what's your reaction to what you see in this video of how officers responded?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT: Well, first let me offer my condolences to Victor's family. I mean, this is truly a tragedy and my heart goes out to the family. You know, since I retired, I'm part of a Consulting Group, 21st Century Policing Solutions. So I look at a lot of use of force video and I looked at this video as well.

You mentioned earlier that when the officers responded, there were information they did not have, like he's autistic, serial cerebral palsy and so forth. And that's pretty common. Officers have limited information, however, that's where training comes in. And when I look at this particular video, this is one of those cases

where had they had training to deal with this situation, good training to deal with the situation. We might have been able to avoid this particular situation.

[08:35:00]

There is a current training Integrating Communications, Assessment and Tactics called ICAT that is taking place now. That really is what I would consider to best practices. For an example, you come to the scene for something like this, OK, you quickly assess the situation. Chief was right. But you have to rely on your training. One thing that's very clear, the first thing I noticed was the fact that, yes, he was armed with a knife, but you have a fence between the officers and the suspect.

And so time, distance, cover, time, deescalation, slow things down, you know, try to, you know, resolve it. Short of having to use any kind of force, distance, it's OK to back up. Early training and policing was pretty much stand your ground. You don't have to back up.

It's OK to back up, maintain a distance between you and the suspect when they're using an edged weapon, and then cover. It's OK to use cover of some kind. In this case, there's a fence between them and the suspect.

And so to immediately use deadly force like that, I believe it could have been avoided. The situation is tragic. There's no question about it. I don't know what kind of training they received there in Idaho, but ICAT training. There is an entire facility in Decatur, Illinois, that's devoted to this particular training. It was built by Howard Buffett for the Police Executive Research Forum that puts on this training.

BLACKWELL: Let me --

RAMSEY: It's just -- yes.

BLACKWELL: Let me read to you from the Pocatello Police Department. This is a policy on use of deadly force, and it says that an officer may use deadly force to protect themselves or others from what the officer reasonably believes is an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury. Also, an imminent danger may exist even if the suspect is not at that very moment pointing a weapon at someone.

By that definition and guidance, is it plausible to think that after these investigations, that this could be deemed a justified use of deadly force?

RAMSEY: It could be. I mean, I don't know if it's anything criminal about what I observed, and I doubt very seriously if there'll be any criminal charges. But just because you can do something doesn't necessarily mean you should. And certainly that's not, you know, unusual to have a deadly force policy like that. That's why training comes in. That's why if you can avoid using any level of force, particularly deadly force, that's what you want to do. Time, distance, cover.

This individual is armed with a knife, not a firearm. And a lot of what you read there, obviously, things change. If it's a firearm --

BLACKWELL: Yes.

RAMSEY: -- that you're talking about, but this is a knife. And this individual, there was a fence between the two. To me, there's time to resolve this short of immediately firing on this individual. You know, in policing, we call something like this lawful but awful. I mean, it may be lawful, but it is absolutely awful that something like this took place.

BLACKWELL: And there are also, I mean, we got to go. But there are also the relatives who are still in the yard behind him when they start shooting. So I wonder how much that will play into this investigation. Chief Charles Ramsey, thank you for your expertise. And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:43:03]

BLACKWELL: This month is National Minority Health Month, and usually these months have a theme. This year the Office of Minority Health at the Department of Health and Human Services plan to focus on advancing commitments to eliminate health disparities. The office shared those plans on their website, but you won't be able to see it for yourself anymore. That office's entire website is now gone after it landed in the crosshairs of Trump administration cuts.

It is just one of many offices within HHS advocating for racial and ethnic minority populations that are now minimally staffed or gone altogether. Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. was asked about the cuts as he visited tribal communities this week. And tribal leaders are taking their concerns a step further with the National Indian Health Board asking for a meeting with RFK Jr.

A.C. Locklear is the CEO of the National Indian Health Board. He is with me now. Sir, thank you for being with me. The first question on that meeting, the consultation that you say that is due to Indian country, is there any indication that there is progress toward that?

A.C. LOCKLEAR, CEO, NATIONAL INDIAN HEALTH BOARD: Yes. So at the moment, we are pretty hopeful that it will happen. It is a policy of HHS and also a policy of the federal government to have consultation as part of its federal trust responsibility to tribes. It should occur prior to any policy decision that impacts tribes.

But in this instance, the reorganization really got started right before, and it could have potential impacts on tribes if they do not bring tribes to the table to have that conversation.

BLACKWELL: Let's talk about potential impacts. DOGE lists 10 leases for Indian Health Services offices across the country as their savings, meaning those offices will close. Now, Secretary Kennedy says two of those could be exempted, but let's say they are the eight offices across the country that will close.

[08:45:04]

What does that mean for the health of these tribal nations?

LOCKLEAR: Well, luckily, after Secretary Kennedy's announcement, the director of the Indian Health Service came a little bit later and announced that all Indian Health Service facilities would be exempt from that. This is just another example of the Secretary really taking a step forward to exempt tribes from many of the administration's policies because of their unique status with the federal government.

But this is just another instance. You know, these facilities really have a huge impact in delivering direct services to tribes across the federal government, providing technical assistance to tribes. And, you know, Indian Health Service is a primary provider of health care for tribal nations. And it's critical that there are individuals in these areas and they have a space for our already stressed system to provide those resources and those medical assistance.

BLACKWELL: The Secretary floated an idea on a visit to Arizona. This is the Gila River community. That did not go over well in the room. And I want your thoughts on it. Let's play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: Oh, we are going to try to roll out systems like that Indian Country. We'd like to make Indian Country pilot programs for these kind of systems and to really make well, there are some places that don't have access to doctors.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: And so what he was talking about there was introducing robotic nurses to Indian Country. And you heard some boos there. What do you think about that, considering the lack of medical resources and access to doctors and piloting this Indian Country, these robotic nurses?

LOCKLEAR: You know, I think at the core of what the Secretary said is a desire and a recognition of the already stressed system. I mean, he knows just as well as many of us that we barely have enough doctors to staff our hospitals. You know, our workforce is currently at a 30 percent vacancy rate across Indian Health, and there is a huge need, and that was a recognition of that.

However, it's also another demonstration that before federal government decides that they want to test anything or to do have any policy initiative across Indian Health. They have to bring tribal leaders to the table. It is a federal and legal responsibility that they have. And tribes as sovereign nation deserve to be brought to the table before any decisions made.

So, you know, just like, you know, we really respect Secretary Kennedy's desire to improve the health outcomes for tribal nations and the recognition of a lot of these issues, but we really have to bring tribal leaders before we make any decisions.

BLACKWELL: A.C. Locklear, thank you.

LOCKLEAR: Thank you so much.

BLACKWELL: The Masters Golf Tournament is known for the green jackets worn by the champions. But this morning, a tribute to the men beside them dressed in white.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:52:28]

BLACKWELL: The Masters Tournament is happening this weekend in Augusta, Georgia. It's known for the green jacket that's handed out to the champion every year. But an overlooked part of Augusta National's history are the men in white who stand next to and guide their golfer. Specifically the fact that from the inaugural edition of the tournament, this is 1934 to 1983, all the caddies were black. It was a requirement for nearly 50 years.

And after this week in Augusta, there's now a new monument honoring those caddies. It's a 25 foot golf tee designed by Ed Durant and brought to life with a mural by artist Baruti Tucker. Baruti told me about how he literally hand painted the tribute and its significance in this week's artist life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARUTI HADITH TUCKER, ARTIST: My name is Baruti Hadith Tucker. I'm in Augusta, Georgia, and I'm from Staten Island, New York. I am an artist, muralist, and illustrator. All golfers will be white and all caddies will be black. That was the rule. All of those golfers won golf because of these black caddies who understood and learned the terrain because they live right up the block from it, which is the Sandhills community.

Sandhills community was predominantly black. Now they have a place where they can see it and celebrate it. At that moment when I'm painting on my fingers, I get the actual sensation of being inside the painting and knowing that my DNA is in it. I'm actually feeling what the figure is feeling. I actually heard the conversations of the black caddies. I smell the smoke.

The story really is about these black men who have overlooked, disrespected, and marginalized. I do describe it as a monument. It's not only monumental for me, but it's also monumental for the families that were there at the unveiling.

There were families hugging the tee day of the unveiling. There were also families that were coming to me and said, you know, that's my uncle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seemed like the caddies were forgotten. And, you know, it's just one of them things where it's a privilege to be here and honor the black caddy. TUCKER: We find ourselves having to place ourselves on paper, in

frames, on murals, on walls just to make sure that people understand that we ain't going nowhere.

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BLACKWELL: Now if you're in Augusta, you can see the monument on the grounds of the Sandhills Community Center. If you see something or someone I should see, tell me. I'm on Instagram, TikTok, X and Bluesky. And if you've missed a conversation or story, check out our show's website. You can listen to the show also as a podcast.

Thank you for joining me today. I'll see you back here next Saturday at 8:00 a.m. Eastern. Smerconish is up after the break.

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