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First of All with Victor Blackwell

Journalist Caught Up In Trumps Immigration Crackdown; Journalist Covering Immigration Detained By ICE Faces Deportation; Son, Colleagues Of Journalist Detained By ICE React To Arrest; Tennessee Moves To Return Man To Prison For Murder He Denies Committing; Trump Criticizes "Non-Working Holidays" On n Juneteenth; A Kroger Grocery Store In Atlanta Is Drawing Backlash Over Its Juneteenth Cakes; A Former Plantation Becomes A Space For Healing, Art And Reparative History. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired June 21, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:00:39]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: First of all, immigrant communities are afraid of ICE agents right now. And we talked about this on this show. Really, any masked law enforcement, even immigrants who are here legally, and this is understandable.

Look at this. In the last few weeks, we've watched the arrest of citizens, the detainment of lawmakers. Nuke Mayor Ras Baraka was arrested during a protest at an ICE detention center. A charge against him has been dropped.

New Jersey Congresswoman LaMonica McIver still faces an indictment over the chaotic scene that broke out there. California Senator Alex Padilla was manhandled after he tried to question the secretary of Homeland Security. And most recently, the New York City comptroller and mayoral candidate Brad Lander. He was arrested at Manhattan's immigration court.

So we've seen all that. But this morning, I want to talk about an arrest you probably have not seen. This is not of an elected official, but it's of a journalist, a source of news on immigration. And at CNN, listen, we've seen journalists taken into custody before. You'll remember my colleague Omar Jimenez was detained back in 2020 during the George Floyd protest in Minneapolis. But he was released quickly and with an apology from the governor. That has not happened here.

Mario Guevara has been in custody for a week now. He's a reporter originally from El Salvador who has covered Georgia's Hispanic community and immigration for years. He has a work permit. And last Saturday, he was arrested as he was covering a No Kings protest near Atlanta.

He was live streaming at the time. So we have video of that moment. Watch. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARIO GUEVARA, MG NEWS REPORTER: Officer, I'm from the media, Officer. Okay. Let me -- let me finish that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: Police in Doraville also released body cam footage just yesterday. It shows officers rushing Guevara when he steps into the street. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUEVARA: Officer, I'm a media, Officer. Could you take my phone, please, to my work. Don't leave that, please. Thank you, officer. Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: I mean, it's obvious he has on a vest that says press. He's holding a camera. His credentials are hanging around his neck. Guevara was charged as a pedestrian improperly entering a roadway, obstruction of law enforcement officers and unlawful assembly. A state judge had granted him release without bail, but immigration authorities requested that he be held, and on Wednesday, ICE picked him up. Guevara now faces deportation.

Guevara's attorney, Giovanni Diaz is with us. Here in studio is Guevara's son, Oscar Guevara Saenz, who is also a photojournalist for his father's MG News site. And Alondra Madrigal, who works closely with Mario as a reporter with MG News.

Welcome to you all. Alondra, I'm going to start with you because you've obviously seen the video. We've all seen it. Now, you were there on site after his arrest. I've read the charges. What's your reaction to what happened to your colleague?

ALONDRA MADRIGAL, MG NEWS REPORTER WORKING WITH MARIO GUEVARA: It's so current because he's -- it's so useful for him. It's so used. I'm so used to seeing him do that. He's always live streaming, you know, raids and protests. And so for him to be in that position, I feel like I never expected it to be that way. I would say that he has always prepared me for that moment if I were to ever come. But obviously, I never thought it happened soon like that.

BLACKWELL: Oscar, to you, I mentioned that you're a colleague, but I want to speak to in the context of being his son. And you shared with me just before went on air that you had brain surgery a couple of years ago. And so, as his son, what does this mean for you personally and also the care that you received from your father?

[08:05:20]

OSCAR GUEVARA SAENZ, MARIO GUEVARA'S SON AND MG NEWS PHOTOJOURNALIST: Well, as you said, it was almost four years ago, so I've pretty much recovered 80, 70, 80 percent, but still, I can't drive, so he has to take me everywhere. And for me, knowing that he may face deportation or that he may get deported, just, yes, it's devastating.

BLACKWELL: I saw as were playing the video, you kind of just dropped your head and shook your head. What was that reaction?

SAENZ: Basically, the cops were waiting. They were waiting for him to make a wrong move. That's literally it. And, yes, it's crazy. Yes.

BLACKWELL: And you think that they were just waiting for him to step into the street so they could take him into custody.

SAENZ: It's crazy how how they were surrounding him and, like, basically backing him up and forced him to do that.

BLACKWELL: And so you think that what they were doing was approaching him and then trying to get him to step into the street so then they could take him into custody.

SAENZ: Definitely.

BLACKWELL: Giovanni, you're the attorney here. What's your view of the video you're watching?

GIOVANNI DIAZ, ATTORNEY FOR MARIO GUEVARA: Well, I mean, it's-- you know, my law partner is the criminal defense specialist on the immigration specialist. We've watched this video over and over. I mean, it's pretty clear watching it, you know, what transpired. To see somebody detained like that, especially somebody from the media, usually members of the media. And obviously, I don't want to speak for journalists in the media, but my understanding after having conversations and some experience with the media, is that there's a deference given to them. And if somebody is just documenting police operations and documenting a protest, there are a lot of things that can be done before making that decision to detain and arrest somebody.

I think anytime that you detain a reporter, it's concerning. And it seems like he was cooperating with the police. He was well-marked. He was clearly just documenting. So I think the footage is clear that, you know, in our position, that he did not do anything wrong and he shouldn't have been arrested.

BLACKWELL: Giovanni, I want to make sure that we're clear about the distinction here. This was a No Kings protest, but he was not a protester. He was there covering it, as he has for many years in Georgia. What is or at least was at this point his status in this country?

DIAZ: He has the right to legally be here in the United States. He has work authorization here. There's a long procedural history of this case, but essentially you know, he had fought for asylum many years ago, and the case was pending for a long time and litigated for a long time. The case was administratively closed because the government decided they had no interest in sending him anywhere, and they allowed him to stay here. And he's been renewing that work authorization and living here lawfully for many, many years.

But there is a distinction. He's not yet a lawful permanent resident. And especially under this administration, if you are not a lawful permanent resident and you commit even minor traffic violations, this administration doesn't really have or use any discretion. It's a zero- tolerance type of a policy and, you know, anybody that is not a legal permanent resident commits any minor traffic violation runs the risk of ending up in ICE custody.

BLACKWELL: Alondra, let me come to you. The Committee to Protect Journalists has condemned the arrest, calls on local officials to drop the charges. What's the impact of this arrest on the work that you do? Journalists, and specifically foreign-born journalists who are covering immigration is such a hot topic in this country.

MADRIGAL: Immigration is very popular at the moment due to our political climate. Obviously, I feel like I have no way to structure this answer, but only that as a journalist, you know, we are being the voice to the voiceless, and I feel like being put in that position is very unjust to what happened to my boss, Mario.

[08:10:10]

You know, not just speaking for myself, but for many reporters. You know, you live that fear whenever you cover any kind of, you know, protest or, you know, any kind of like serious, you know, what issues or something.

BLACKWELL: Oscar, finally to you. Have you been able to speak with your father?

SAENZ: Yes, we speak several times a day. Well, my mom talks to him several times a day. I personally don't just because I'm so busy helping Alondra and the team at MG News run it, run the company.

BLACKWELL: How does this inform this episode, inform the work now that you do?

SAENZ: Now I'm a lot more involved in MG News. I'm not just a photojournalist. I help run it, basically.

BLACKWELL: Well, Oscar, Alondra and Attorney Diaz, thank you so much all for coming in and sharing the story.

SAENZ: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Well, during the Black Lives Matter movement after the death of George Floyd, sports teams, the athletes, they spoke out. While many are not as vocal in this current political climate, why fans are now calling on the Los Angeles Dodgers to step up to the plate and go to bat for their community.

Plus, President Trump picks Juneteenth to say that us has too many of these holidays. But that's a much different message than when he was campaigning for black votes. We have the receipts.

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[08:16:34] BLACKWELL: When a community is in crisis, sports sometimes can be just what you need. Provide an escape. But should teams also be a source of solidarity? So after protests broke out over ICE raids in Los Angeles, the Dodgers huge Latino fan base looked to their hometown team for support. It did not come, at least not immediately. But after this week's face off with federal agents who pulled up in their parking lot Thursday, the team posted this on their social media last night.

In partnership with the city of Los Angeles, the Dodgers have committed $1 million toward direct financial assistance for families of immigrants impacted by recent events in the region. Additional community efforts to be announced in the coming days.

We have Dylan Hernandez. He is a sports columnist for the Los Angeles Times. He wrote this in his latest opinion piece. "The divisive environment created by Trump forced the Dodgers to take a side, however passively. Now they have to win back angry fans who pledged allegiance to them only to be let down."

We'll speak with Dylan in a moment. We had a technical issue, but we'll get right to him in just a second. Also this morning, the NAACP and the Southern Environmental Law Center. They say they plan to sue Elon Musk's artificial intelligence company because they say it is polluting the air in Memphis, Tennessee.

About a year ago, a company moved into an abandoned factory in southwest Memphis and turned it into an AI training system. The claim here is that it's the most powerful one in the world. Some local officials, including the mayor, said that it would be a source of jobs and tax dollars. Others say they were kept in the dark about the deal.

The people who live in Boxtown, this is a majority black community nearby. They say that it's a source of industrial pollution and another threat to their health. The cancer risk from industrial sources is already four times higher than the EPA's acceptable. The American Lung Association has given Shelby County an F in air quality for ozone levels. Researchers say the county has the highest rates in the state for children hospitalized for asthma.

Earlier this year, CNN spoke to members of the community who were upset that the company appeared to be claiming a loophole that allowed it to use gas-powered turbines that produce pollutants for up to a year. Environmental lawyers working with the NAACP say the company does not qualify. And even if it did, it's been more than a year.

The company responded, saying the temporary power generation units are operating in compliance with all applicable laws. It has already expanded onto a second facility.

All right, let's go back now to Dylan Hernandez. We have fixed our technical issue. Dylan, thank you for working with us through that.

I mentioned a million dollars pledged by the Dodgers last night. So a million dollar donation. All good.

DYLAN HERNANDEZ, SPORTS COLUMNIST, LOS ANGELES TIMES: We'll see. I think, you know, obviously it's a sports team first, I think, you know, and people are going to kind of, I think, wait to see if this was enough because I do think people were really upset over the last week. You know, that said, people also want to see the team play. I'm guessing, you know, decent amount of fans will probably be very forgiving. Others, not so much.

[08:20:14]

BLACKWELL: You were more critical in your most recent column. You wrote that the Dodgers broke their sacred bond with the Latino community. Explain that.

HERNANDEZ: Yes, so, you know, I mean, let's go back kind of in Dodger history, right, and how the team continues to market itself, which is kind of as a symbol of inclusion. You know, starting with, obviously, Jackie Robinson. They were fine with, you know, Sandy Koufax not pitching on Yom Kippur. And they went out and they signed players like Fernando Valenzuela, Hideo Nomo Chanho Park, which really kind of expanded baseball's borders.

Now, the signing of Valenzuela in particular was very impactful, you know, given that Dodger Stadium is now, you know, sits on a site that used to be a Mexican American neighborhood, you know, was basically taken from these people through eminent domain. I believe there was supposed to be a housing project there originally, and eventually that became the Dodger Stadium site.

So there was a lot of distrust, I would say, between the Latino community and the Dodgers for a very long time. Valenzuela coming in changed all of that. Right. 1981, he comes in as a rookie, wins, you know, his first, like, eight starts, and really, there was like a May. There's Fernando mania. Right?

And so that kind of made Dodger Stadium, I think, this place that, like, everybody kind of felt welcome to come to. And if you really look at, you know, the Dodgers fan base, you know, recent decades, it's been, you know, over 40 percent, my guess is close to half, you know, in the fan. These fans have continued to show up, whether the team's been good or bad.

Now, over the last decade or so, they have been really good. But even before that, no, there were some thin years. And this was, again, the demographic, really -- you know, I would argue that kind of kept them up.

So, yes, I think that there was, you know, I think that the fans felt, hey, look, were there for you know, in tough times. Why aren't you guys with us right here?

BLACKWELL: You know, Dylan, there's a -- we don't need to look past the protests after the murder of George Floyd to know that there's a difference between a team's front office and the players. And so while there might be some disappointment with the front office and the official Dodgers infrastructure. Are the players any more outspoken than the management and ownership? HERNANDEZ: Oh, no. You know, baseball, you know, this is, I'm not sure

how much of a, you know, it's not really much of a secret, but baseball tends to be pretty right-leaning. You know, you go to most baseball clubhouses, you know, they tend to go pretty conservative.

My guess, you know, and I haven't talked to all of, you know, polled all the players, but they tend to, you know, I'm guessing you have your fair share of Trump voters in there. Now that does leave certain players in awkward positions. You know, Kikay (ph) Hernandez has been kind of the one player, you know, he's a Puerto Rican-born player who, you know, put out a statement basically saying that he wasn't okay with what was going on.

But, you know, I could see given the group dynamics that it is awkward for a singular player to kind of, you know, put himself out there. You know, obviously, you know, earlier this year the team visited the White House. I don't think everybody was comfortable with it, but the guys that weren't, it was just a few guys. And you're like, okay, am I going to disrupt the team's harmony over this?

BLACKWELL: Yes, and you make a good point. I mean, I was thinking back to 2020, where we heard from LeBron James and Steve Kerr and Greg Popovich and NFL players and teams as well. We did not hear as much from baseball. Dylan Hernandez, thanks for working through the technical issue with us and being with us this morning.

Coming up, this man's conviction was overturned. But then that decision was reversed. And now a man in Nashville could soon be put back in prison for a crime he says he did not commit. I'll speak to that man and his attorney.

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[08:28:33]

BLACKWELL: A Tennessee man may have to go back to prison for a crime he denies committing. And after his conviction was overturned, by the time a U.S. district court freed Thomas Clardy in 2023, he'd already spent 17 years in prison for a triple shooting that resulted in the death of one person.

In a ruling overturning Clardy's conviction, the judge said that the case was based on paltry and exceedingly weak evidence. A 6th Circuit Court of Appeals reversed that, or the Supreme Court declined to hear his appeal. So last week, the state of Tennessee filed a motion seeking Clardy's return to prison.

Joining us now is Thomas Clardy and Jessica Van Dyke, legal director and co-founder of the Tennessee Innocence Project, which is representing him. Welcome to you both. And, Mr. Clardy, let me start with you.

You've been a free man for two years now. What's your reaction to this reversal and seeking returning you to prison?

THOMAS CLARDY, HAD CONVICTION OVERTURNED, NOW FACING RETURN TO PRISON: Well, it's shocking and disappointing all at the same time.

BLACKWELL: I'm not able to hear you. I can hear Sydney. Yeah, I can hear my producer. There might be an audio. There you go. I can hear you now. Give me that answer game. What's your reaction? To what? What is being sought?

CHARDY: Yes, it's shocking and very disappointing.

BLACKWELL: Jessica, to you, this decision was not based on any new evidence. It wasn't based on any new witness or it was really about the lack of a witness. Explain that.

JESSICA VAN DYKE, LEGAL DIRECTOR AND CO-FOUNDER, TENNESSEE INNOCENCE PROJECT: Yes. Thank you for having us this morning to talk about a case that, you know, Thomas is living in real time here today. And this was a very -- this is an extremely rare situation where a federal court overturned the conviction based on a legal argument, and now it has been reinstated.

And, you know, we're obviously just devastated that this is potentially meaning his return to prison, because Thomas is innocent and has always maintained his innocence.

BLACKWELL: Essentially, you were convicted, and then you then found fault with your previous representation, Mr. Clardy, that they did not call an expert on eyewitnesses, in part because they could not get the payment necessary from the state based on the rate that Tennessee was willing to pay. And then that was used as kind of the justification for trying to return you to prison.

Jessica, to you, how common is state appeal of an overturned conviction and then, moreover, the reinstatement of a conviction?

VAN DYKE: Well, I would say the reinstatement of a conviction is exceedingly rare. We have, you know, looking across the United States, we've only found a handful of cases where this has happened that someone has been released from prison based on an overturned sentence, and then they are being asked to go back by the state of Tennessee. So across the United States, only a handful of cases.

But what's so extraordinary, not only about the situation, is about who Thomas is as a person. We've been working together for over a decade now to try to prove his innocence. And he is an extraordinary person who really, we hope the governor will show mercy and not allow this travesty to occur.

BLACKWELL: Has there been communication with the governor's office?

VAN DYKE: We filed clemency petitions in April, and it's typically a lengthy process, but we certainly hope that the governor's office is taking note and really looking at the extraordinary record that Thomas has built while he's been out of custody the last 19 months.

BLACKWELL: Thomas, tell me about -- have you prepared yourself for the possibility of having to return to prison for a crime you say you did not commit? THOMAS CLARDY, HAD CONVICTION OVERTURNED, NOW FACING RETURN TO PRISON:

Well, I don't know if I can actually say I'm preparing myself, but I am, you know, taking into all consideration that it's a possibility that I will have to go back. However, you know, I'm still hopeful, and I have, you know, full confidence that justice can be prevailed in this situation.

BLACKWELL: And tell me what these last two years have been for you. What have you done with this time this reclaimed freedom since 2023?

CLARDY: Well, first of all, I've been very thankful for the opportunity to be here because a lot of people, you know, in this situation don't get this opportunity. And I have, you know, built a strong relationship in the community by, you know, working with children and helping them, uplift them and try to motivate them to become better people. And I've been working, you know, constantly, you know, just trying to prove who I am.

BLACKWELL: And so, Jessica, you said that you're hoping that the governor will intervene here. If that does not come, when will a decision be made about potentially returning Thomas Clardy to prison?

VAN DYKE: So that's a bit of an unknown at this point. We do have some remaining issues in federal habeas litigation that I'm unable to comment on because we still have pending litigation. But what we did decide to do was go ahead and file a clemency petition with the governor because, you know, kind of cutting this -- cutting through all of the noise, the governor has the opportunity to really put an end to this case.

Thomas has for 20 years now, going on 20 years, said he did not commit this crime. We believe the evidence certainly points away from Thomas. And so, you know, we certainly hope that the governor will look at the letters that have been sent in the people in the community who are saying they've met Thomas and what a volunteer and servant oriented person he is.

You know, just rave reviews for who he is. And so we hope the governor will take note of that. As far as an actual return date, it's not entirely clear at this point.

BLACKWELL: Jessica Van Dyke, Thomas Clardy, thank you for your time this morning. And we, of course, will follow this case. Quick break. We'll be back.

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[08:39:20]

BLACKWELL: How did you mark Juneteenth this week? Well, instead of posting anything about the holiday which commemorates the end of slavery, President Trump complained. He posted his thoughts on, quote, too many non-working holidays in America. And he claims it costs billions to keep businesses closed and argues it must change if we're going to make America great again. To be fair, he didn't call out Juneteenth by name. Maybe he meant we

should scale back. Independence Day, Columbus Day, Thanksgiving? That's the one. There are 11 federal holidays, after all. But the president didn't always feel that way about this particular holiday at least not when he was trying not to get fired in 2020.

[08:40:02]

In his 2020 Platinum Plan for black Americans, one of the campaign promises was to make Juneteenth a national holiday, bottom right, page two. That same year, he told the Wall Street Journal, quote, I did something good. I made it famous. I made Juneteenth very famous. It's actually an important event. It's an important time. But nobody had heard of it. Very few people have heard of it. Juneteenth finally became an official holiday in 2021 under President Joe Biden.

Now, even as rhetoric like that muddies the waters, there are still a lot of people who are having important conversations around Juneteenth. This year, I met two women who did not know each other, but share a special connection to each other and the events of June 19, 1865, in Galveston, Texas.

Here's what happened when they came together to talk for the first time 160 years later.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL (voice-over): Kelley Tealer has been to this church before, but the person waiting for her on this day is a first, not just for her. There's never been a meeting like this.

KELLEY DIXON-TEALER, DIXON FAMILY HISTORIAN: I'm jittery right now. I'm excited, and I hope they're just as excited to meet me now.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): To appreciate the excitement, you need to know Kelly's story. For years, she's been researching her genealogy.

DIXON-TEALER: That is a gift that keeps on giving. I don't sleep sometimes at night because I wake up trying to find more.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): She used a website to trace her maternal line back to a man born about 1837, once enslaved and freed in Galveston, Texas.

DIXON-TEALER: Hawkins Wilson is my third great grandfather on my mother's side.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): Then she hit a wall until a genealogist reached out to her with letters that Hawkins wrote in 1867. He was looking for long separated relative just a few years after emancipation.

DIXON-TEALER (voice-over): Dear sir, I'm anxious to learn about my sisters from whom I have been separated many years.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): But there was more. DIXON-TEALER: Some of the details that was in the letters and those

historians are the ones that told me that he was, you know, a part of the very first Juneteenth.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): Not just at the inaugural Juneteenth celebration, but that he was also at reedy Chapel on June 19, 1865, where enslaved people in Galveston learned for the first time that President Abraham Lincoln had freed them more than two years prior.

Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863, but in Texas, enforcement was inconsistent. So Major General Gordon Granger and his troops were sent to Galveston to enforce general order number three, which declared that in Texas, all slaves are free. And General Granger brings us to this woman waiting for Kelley at the front of the church.

CHAMPE GRANGER, GRANGER FAMILY HISTORIAN: He is my great grandfather.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): The general, as Champe Granger calls him, affirmed that Kelley's three times great grandfather was a free man at this very spot. Champ says the general was always present in a childhood home, in portraits and through stories. Granger was a first lieutenant during the Mexican American War. Union general during the Civil War.

BLACKWELL: Did your father tell you the story of General Granger reading order number three?

GRANGER: No, he never did.

BLACKWELL: When did you learn of it?

GRANGER: It's been more sent us articles about Juneteenth from different states. And then this is his war service.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): She also has letters handwritten by the general, inherited treasures. But Champe is careful not to overstate the general's role on Juneteenth.

GRANGER: He was a Union soldier, so clearly he was not supportive of slavery. But you know, he was doing his job. I don't want to give him too much credit.

BLACKWELL: I don't want to paint him as a civil rights icon.

GRANGER: Right. Correct.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): And even with that context, Champe is looking forward to this meeting too.

GRANGER: I'm excited to hear their history. I love learning from other people and talking to people and I hope I don't like get in your way, you know, I'll try to stay to the side.

Hey, how are you?

BLACKWELL (voice-over): But when the women meet for the first time, we stay out of the way. A few nerves at first, but then a conversation.

DIXON-TEALER: He was sold as a six-year old boy.

GRANGER: And they started the Freeman's board.

DIXON-TEALER: Thinking about where he started --

GRANGER: Right.

DIXON-TEALER: -- you know, and then where he ended up.

GRANGER: So who was he writing to?

DIXON-TEALER: It really started when both my grandparents were living.

GRANGER: He was brave and was talking to one of my family members last night.

DIXON-TEALER: And when we learned of him again he's here in Galveston.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): These descendants, these daughters of history at the historic rebuilt Reedy Chapel where their ancestors stood 160 years ago.

BLACKWELL: Tell me about the first two minutes of conversation.

GRANGER: I want to go and have a glass of wine with her. Right.

DIXON-TEALER: Almost didn't know what to expect. Right. And just the nervousness behind that.

[08:45:06]

BLACKWELL: And your ancestors were at this spot 160 years ago. How important is that story to share today?

DIXON-TEALER: I'm pushing back emotions. I'm sorry. People are trying to silence us and silence the history. We cannot allow our history to be washed away.

GRANGER: And I would say I have had it easier because everything was dropped in my lap and she's had to search and dig and look for everything.

DIXON-TEALER: It's important that we continue this conversation. It's important that I'm able to sit here with her.

GRANGER: My father was a history teacher, and he was also Gordon Granger IV. So it was everything to him. My father died a year ago. He was 96. But he lived to see Juneteenth become a holiday for the country, and that was amazing.

BLACKWELL: What would your great, great grandfather think about this conversation?

DIXON-TEALER: You know, what I really believe that he would say is, thank you, job well done.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: An important conversation. And we hear that they are still having conversations today. You know, Juneteenth is a young holiday, so people are still figuring out how to celebrate. Should this be solemn like Memorial Day, or do you go all out and decorate, like, for the fourth of July? Either way, you probably should not do this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Y'all decorate everything else around here cute. Everything else right here cute. But for Juneteenth, you want to just throw something on a freaking cookie cake and expect someone to buy it? That's bullshit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: So these are cookie cake decorations at an Atlanta Kroger. Pick your favorite. Free at last or just the word free? June 19th free. How about this? Congratulations. Kroger didn't reply to us, but they shared this statement with some outlets, including Newsweek. The cakes and cookies that were featured in the video were inconsistent with our provided guidance and not of the quality we would expect to see from our stores.

The products have been removed and we've addressed this directly with the store teams and the customer who took the initial video. Congratulations.

Art is life is coming up this week. A new exhibit set in a former plantation and the product of a partnership between the descendant of a sharecropper and the descendant of an enslaver. You'll hear from them both next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:52:22]

BLACKWELL: Preserving history matters. How we do it matters too. At the site of a former plantation in Harpersville, Alabama, the Wallace Center for Arts and Reconciliation says their mission is to reimagine the former plantation as a place of healing and art. Their first public exhibit is "Out of Whole Cloth." For Art is Life this week, I spoke to the Wallace Center's co-founders. One is the descendant of sharecroppers, the other a descendant of an enslaver who owned the Wallace house.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR: THEOANGELO PERKINS, HARPERVILLE, ALABAMA: Hi, I'm Theoangelo Perkins. I'm the mayor of Harpersville, Alabama, and I'm also the co- founder of Wallace Center for Arts and Reconciliation.

NELL GOTTLIEB, CO-FOUNDER, WALLACE CENTER FOR ARTS AND RCONCILIATION: I'm Nell Gottlieb, and I am the co-founder with Theo of the Wallace Center for Arts and Reconciliation.

And I grew up going to spend my summers in the 1950s with my grandmother in the house. I learned about the lost cause from my grandmother and established what I knew about the Wallace House, which turned out to be different from what I learned later.

PERKINS: Most of my family came to the Wallace House around 1870, right after emancipation, and they worked the farm for generations. My family even called it the big house. Nell said, place, you know, this is what it's meant to us, but we want can we do to change the narrative.

GOTTLIEB: And he said, well, you have to talk to the black descendants. And so he convened the group of black descendants for our first homecoming, which was held in the fall of October of 2018. And then we established the organization in December.

So it's our attempt at repair is we want the house and the land that we had to be in the hands of really the black descendants.

EBONY HOWARD, Executive Director, WALLACE CENTER FOR ARTS AND RECONCILIATION: Hi, I'm Ebony Howard. I'm the executive director for the Wallace Center for Arts and Reconciliation. The name of the exhibit is "Out of Whole Cloth: Marking History and Making Home 1865- 1910." And this exhibit explores the lives of three black families who lived on the Wallace plantation after emancipation.

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PERKINS: It follows those families and it gives items from those families that they would have used right after emancipation.

HOWARD: So it's everything from the like, really practical and functional, like where am I going to work? Where am I going to live? Where am I going to go?

GOTTLIEB: We set up to have art from the very beginning and we have gotten a lot of funding for art projects. And I think it's essential because it allows us to kind of bypass our cognitive barriers that we have.

PERKINS: Reconciliation is not easy and that has been one of the things that we found from the beginning, was that these conversations are sometimes hard, but they are necessary.

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BLACKWELL: Our thanks to 1504's Tyler Jones for sharing those visuals with us and bringing this exhibit to my attention. You can view the "Out of Whole Cloth" exhibit now. For more on that and the Wallace Center, visit wallacearts.org and if you see something or someone I should see, tell me. I'm on Instagram, TikTok, X, Bluesky. If you missed a conversation, you can listen to our show as a podcast.

Thanks for joining me today. Smerconish is up next.

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