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First of All with Victor Blackwell

Time Running Out For Some Immigrants In The Nation Of Immigrants; Leaders Of Effort To Preserve TPS React To Supreme Court Loss; More Than A Million Immigrants Face Deportation After Ruling. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired June 27, 2026 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:00:43]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Well, first of all, the timing could not be more ironic or illuminating. One week from today, America will be celebrating 250 years of the United States being a beacon of freedom. There will be extra emphasis on reciting those familiar phrases from the fourth. The American Dream is available to anyone if they work hard.

The U.S. is a nation of immigrants, built by immigrants. Expect to see those classic images of the Statue of Liberty with its plaque that reads, give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Yet coincidentally, in the days leading up to that celebration, we're seeing those ideals that imagery clash with actual policy.

More than a million immigrants may soon be told their time in the nation of immigrants is up. Or this is how a top official at the Department of Homeland Security put it Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES PERCIVAL, GENERAL COUNSEL, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: The T in TPS stands for temporary. President Trump has been trying to end these programs since 2017. So, these people have been on notice for nine years that this day is coming. So, what we would say now is it's closing time, which means you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: It's closing time. Because this week the Supreme Court ruled that lower courts have no ability to overrule federal decisions on temporary protected status.

The case was focused on the roughly 350,000 Haitians and 6,000 Syrians in the United States with TPS. But hundreds of thousands of people from 11 other countries could be impacted by this decision, too.

In another sad coincidence of timing that includes Venezuela, a country that is now dealing with the consequences of devastating earthquakes. Earthquakes that struck the evening before this ruling came down.

Now the U.S. is sending help and aid, but CNN's reporting is that at this moment, the U.S. is not planning to reverse course and extend protections to Venezuelan migrants. It was a 7.0 magnitude earthquake in 2010, you'll remember that brought about the original TPS designation for Haiti. Extensions followed because of the political turmoil and the violence that still persists there, and that Haitians fear being forced to return to. More than 10,000 Haitians live in Ohio.

The state's Republican governor, Mike DeWine, calls the TPS ruling a mistake. And in a statement, he noted, "While these Haitians were working and contributing to our community and economy yesterday, today it is now illegal to employ them."

When he was a senator, DeWine voted in 2006 to confirm Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court. Another coincidence. Justice Alito wrote the majority opinion in the TPS case.

In her dissent, Justice Elena Kagan called out the majority. She noted President Trump's past remarks about countries like Haiti are, quote, so repellent and racially inflected that the majority declines to put them in print. And the statements fairly shout in their racial undertones and overtones alike, that race entered into the president's resolve to remove Haitians from this country.

Comments like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in. They're eating the cats. They're eating -- they're eating the pets of the people that live there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Well, the Supreme Court's work this term is not done. We're now awaiting a ruling from the Court on the president's efforts to end birthright citizenship. So a decision on who gets to call themselves an American by birth days ahead of America's 250th birthday.

Viles Dorsainvil is the executive director of the Haitian Community Help and Support center in Springfield, Ohio. Also with us is Ghita Schwarz, co-counsel in the TPS case and the Senior Director of U.S. litigation at the International Refugee Assistance Project. Welcome to you both.

Viles, you are one of the plaintiffs in this case. I first want to start with you with what has been the reaction there in Springfield, the community that's been the center of this national conversation? What's the reaction to the ruling?

[08:05:02] VILES DORSAINVIL, PLAINTIFF IN TPS SUPREME COURT CASE: Thank you, Victor, for having me. Unfortunately, folks -- folks have been in confusion since after the ruling because we expected a ruling, but we did not expect it to be that extreme. So now the reaction that I get from the community is that folks are very confused by the fact that they do not know what to do next because some of them called me yesterday and reported to me that the employers already tell them not to come back to work after July 1st. So, this is the reaction.

And the reaction I got again from the community, is that how the school district is going to deal with that. How the hospitals, the factories are going to deal with that sensation? Have been working in all the sectors in our community.

BLACKWELL: Yeah. No clarity on returning to work, to school if you can get into a hospital or many of the questions that were clear before this ruling from the court.

Ghita, let me come to you. We already played the sound from the President talking about the false claims of Haitian eating house cats. This is the president admitting last year something the White House actually denied in his first term. Let's play that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: I've also announced a permanent pause on third world migration, including from hellholes like Afghanistan, Haiti, Somalia and many other countries, because our country was going to hell. And we had a meeting and I say, why is it we only take people from shithole countries, right?

Why can't we have some people from Norway, Sweden, just a few. Let us have a few. From -- from Denmark, do you mind sending us a few people?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: So acknowledging that shithole country comment, years after denying it, acknowledging it now, Justice Alito wrote for the majority, none of the cited statements by either the President or the Secretary was overtly racial. And in substance, all expressed policy views that could rest on race neutral justifications. I don't know what the policy view is in these claims that you from the president, but what was your reaction when you read that?

GHITA SCHWARZ, CO-COUNSEL IN TPS SUPREME COURT CASE: Well, thank you so much, Victor. It's a pretty shocking and dramatic statement by the majority, as articulated by Alito, that statements like that are not overtly racial and that don't rise to this very high, perhaps never reachable bar that the Supreme Court majority has set for what constitutes racial discrimination.

And as Justice Kagan said in her dissent, the Supreme Court majority won't even state those statements in the opinion because they are so clearly overtly racial. And one of the really devastating things about this opinion is not only does it deprive our clients from Syria, our clients from Haiti, the right to continue to have TPS, the right to challenge violations of the statute before the federal courts, it also sets the bar so high on what constitutes racial discrimination that it dramatically weakens the laws that we have that are supposed to protect people from overt bigotry, from clear policies that are, of course, intended to racially discriminate.

BLACKWELL: Yeah. The residue of these ruling impacts things beyond temporary protected status. Viles, let me play for you something from conservative host Megyn Kelly after the Supreme Court ruling. Her reaction?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEGYN KELLY, HOST OF "THE MEGYN KELLY SHOW": Go home. Get out. We know our country's better than yours. That's because we filled it with our work ethic and our culture and our values. You being here only dilutes it for us, those who built it and live it.

And half of you people, more than half, you won't assimilate. We don't want you. We don't care if you're offended. Get out. Go home. Go back to Haiti. Sorry.

I'm just -- I'm thinking about our friends in Ohio who've been dealing with these TPS, Haitian for years now who are drunk driving all over their towns and killing people. This is the whole cats and dogs thing.

Like, they don't want to live like Americans live.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Now, typically, Villes, that wouldn't have a place on this show. But because she called out, she's thinking of her friends in Springfield. How does that framework comport with the community around you in Springfield? What's been the reaction outside the Haitian community in Springfield?

[08:10:05]

DORSAINVIL: I think that since the presidential campaign, since 2024, I think that there are many people like Megyn who have been having that same type of rhetoric without trying even to know who we are. So folks sometimes say things just to compensate the belief, the political position. But at the end of the day -- the community of Springfield is very welcoming.

The vast majority of people in Springfield have been standing in solidarity with us because they see the work that we've been doing in the community and they see how important we are for Springfield, how our contribution is tremendous for the community. So we are trying to focus on people who are problem solvers instead of focusing on people who are just saying things for the sake of saying it without informing themselves about what they say.

So my goal as a community leader is just to focus on good energy and continue to do the work that we are doing in our community.

BLACKWELL: All right. Viles Dorsainvil and Ghita Schwarz, thank you so much for your time this morning.

Another big legal fight is playing out in Tennessee. This one is to stop a rule that could restrict care for critically ill undocumented children. The leader of a group fighting this joins us ahead of a hearing next week.

Plus ye, formerly known as Kanye West is set to perform a week from today in San Antonio. The city's mayor wants the concert to be canceled, but some in the city council do not. My leaders are at odds over how to handle his past antisemitic comments.

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[08:16:44]

BLACKWELL: A Tennessee rule that could put critically ill kids in danger faces a major legal challenge next week. This year, the Tennessee legislature passed a new law requiring immigration verification for anyone over 18 applying for public benefits. But the rest of the law's language is more broad and says agencies must report anyone who is not lawfully in the U.S. and that put a little known program directly in the crosshairs.

Children's Special Services, the CSS is a health insurance program serving low income kids with severe disabilities and terminal illnesses. About 400 immigrant children in Tennessee are benefiting from CSS, according to the Tennessee Justice Center.

Now, in the past, immigration status has never mattered for using it. Well now court filings detail that some of those immigrant families recently got a letter given to providers and that letter told them to disenroll or risk getting reported to state and immigration officials. A court has now temporarily stopped the state health department from sharing this information, a hearing is set for Thursday.

But several doctors sued to stop the disclosure and said the care they provide is critical. Like one doctor who detailed a patient with congenital heart disease. The doctor said the patient had multiple surgeries and requires close management by cardiologists. But because her family got that letter, her mother is fearful that she cannot attend a follow up appointment with her cardiologist in September.

The legal challenge was filed by the Tennessee Justice Center. Executive Director Michelle Johnson joins us now.

Michelle, thank you for being with me. Can we first just talk about the severity of the impact? I mean, this sounds like especially for this child and maybe others, life and death.

MICHELLE JOHNSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, TENNESSEE JUSTICE CENTER: Thanks for having me. Yes, this program is set up for children that have really critical health care needs and have no other way to access care. So, the doctors that brought the case lay out in great detail what that means.

One child has leukemia and is getting chemotherapy. One child is on a feeding tube. One child requires oxygen. These are all services that these children have to have in order to survive. And this state action really puts their life's in jeopardy.

BLACKWELL: Yes. In addition to the life and death severity, I went to the program's website. Last resort for children who need hearing aids or braces or artificial limbs or wheelchairs or walkers or prescriptions. I mean, does this mean that the children won't get their pills or their hearing aids won't be serviced?

I mean, it also seems like it would dramatically for those children who are not facing terminal illnesses. It just really impacts the quality of life for these children.

JOHNSON: Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, we know that children, we all believe that children should be able to grow up to reach their potential. And so for some children, this will have not life and death consequences, but it will result in pain or a deterioration of their condition.

[08:20:07]

BLACKWELL: Talk to me about, because there are three doctors who sued to block the law. What does this mean for the doctors and the local health departments? Because as I understand it, the onus is on them to then report these -- these families.

JOHNSON: Well, the letter that went out to doctors across the state was that doctors, if they submit a bill after July 1 for a child, then that child will immediately be turned over to immigrants. So can you imagine being a doctor and hearing that, you know, your job is not just to treat a child who has really serious chronic illnesses, but also you have to understand the most complex immigration laws, which of course are incredibly, incredibly complex. You need an expert to understand immigration laws.

And so -- so it means doctors are, as those three have said, really, really concerned about their patients.

BLACKWELL: Does this put them in the dilemma of, I mean, it may be advising a family, don't get this service or this treatment because then I have to report you to the state.

JOHNSON: Well, I think what the letters that went out from the state said is you must disenroll your child or we will turn over your information to the immigration authorities. That that's what the letter said. So that really already, before they even get to the doctor, puts families in an impossible situation.

BLACKWELL: All right, Michelle Johnson, we're going to certainly be watching the outcome of the hearing next week. And thank you so much for helping us understand the stakes for those children across Tennessee.

Next week, America celebrates 250 years of independence. But you may not know about a dark part of US history written right into the founding documents. I'll admit until recently, I didn't know these words were there.

Adopted on July 4th, 1776. And that's next.

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[08:26:36]

BLACKWELL: There is a slur in America's founding documents. And we all know about this passage from the Declaration of independence adopted 250 years ago next week that we hold these truths to be self-evident. That all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among them are Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

But farther down in the Declaration is a list of grievances against the king. A series of reasons the colonies wanted to split from the United Kingdom. And this is the final one. "He has excited domestic insurrections among us and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers the merciless Indian savages whose known rule of warfare is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

Merciless Indian savages. Words in the Declaration of Independence largely forgotten that line and Native Americans place in the celebrations of the 250 years since our nation's founding. A big focus of the new podcast by journalist and citizen of the Cherokee Nation, Rebecca Nagle called First America.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NED BLACKHAWK, WESTERN SHOSHONE, YALE UNIVERSITY HISTORY PROFESSOR: I think we as a country are losing a real sense of understanding about our nation's past. The Declaration, which is full of these beautiful -- beautifully rendered, you know, sentences and paragraphs about Enlightenment ideals, does also have this darker history to it.

REBECCA NAGLE, PODCAST HOST, FIRST AMERICA: Why is it important for the darker part of the Declaration of Independence and the American Revolution? Why is it important that Americans know about it?

BLACKHAWK: Well, if we don't understand the full context in which our nation was founded, we won't understand the full context in which our nation now finds itself.

NAGLE: I'm mad that Native people have been written out of the story of the Revolution, but I'm also baffled by it. I mean, it's kind of wild, right? It's not like you have to dig through the archives to find out that hunger for indigenous land drove the Revolution. It's right there in the Declaration of Independence, in one of our country's most famous documents, in one of the most famous documents in all of human history. But somehow no one knows about. It feels like a magic trick, like making a rabbit disappear into a hat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: And Rebecca Nagle is with us now. Rebecca, thanks for being on. I have been surprised by how little Native Americans have been included in this story that we're telling on the 250th. And maybe surprise is the wrong word, but not even the -- the superficial or the lip service that one might have expected. And I guess some of the message of the podcast is that I should not be surprised.

NAGLE: Yes, I mean, I think that we're all used to celebrating the lofty Enlightenment ideals that are there in the Declaration of Independence. But right alongside those was actually our founders deep hatred for indigenous people. And the line about merciless Indian savages. It's actually not a throwaway line.

[08:30:05]

So that list of grievances which you mentioned at the top, sort of all the reasons that our founders were angry at George III, the King of England, a lot of historians think that list actually has an order, that it starts with smaller issues and kind of escalates, and that the last complaint is actually the thing that they were most angry about, and that was the line about Native Americans.

And so we have been told over and over that the Revolution was fought over taxation and representation. But according to our founders, in their own words, what they were most upset about was Native people. And, you know, it's kind of baffling. Like I say in the podcast, how did we all miss that?

BLACKWELL: Yes, you know, I, again, I will admit that I did not know that those words were there until recently. And what does that phrasing mean now in contemporary -- to contemporary Native Americans? To know that information was there? Just like when black people talk about the Three Fifths Compromise years later in our documents, our founding documents, what does that mean to you?

NAGLE: That's a really good question. You know, I think for Native people, the founding of the U.S. government feels a lot different, because instead of getting more freedom or more liberty. For a lot of tribes, it was less. And I think this is a really hard part of the story of the revolution that's often left out.

So I think about my own ancestors. During the Revolutionary War, colonial militias invaded Cherokee Nation and burned our towns to the ground. So where my ancestors lived, in a town called Hiawassee, the fire was so hot that glass beads fused together. They chopped down fruit orchards so that people would have no food. They burned corn.

My family escaped in a dugout canoe. And so I think a lot of people, when they think about the founding of the United States, they think about things like the Declaration of Independence. I think about one of my ancestors who was about 7 years old at the time, who was living as a refugee of war.

And I think we're living through a political moment where a lot of people are asking questions like, how could this be happening in the United States? What happened to our democracy? How did we get here? And what I would say to that is that I think -- I think right now in our country, we are struggling with how America got to where we are, because actually, we don't know how it started.

BLACKWELL: Yes. You know, when. And that's a good point, because over the months of. I'll say, specifically the deportation efforts in Minneapolis, where people are saying this is unAmerican. This is not of America. And you focus on some of this in the podcast, that detachment from it suggests that this is something that is new in our country. And so how do you approach that in the podcast?

You know, this really, I guess, wild thing happened while I was reporting. I was meeting with a historian named Nick Estes at a site in Minneapolis called Fort Snelling that had actually been used as a concentration camp in the 1860s for Dakota people. And while we were there, Nick got a call from his wife that ICE had just shot and killed someone. It was actually the day that ICE killed Renee Good.

And I stayed and I reported on the protest. And the next day, I was actually back at this area called Fort Snelling for a protest, because ICE is headquartered on the same campus. And ICE is there because it's still military, it's still federal land. And it's federal land because going back in history, it was once a military reservation.

And so what you saw in Minneapolis was, you know, our government rounding people up, detaining people, and literally doing that in the same place. And so, so much of what our government is doing, you know, it's not that our government has never done this before. You know, our government has actually done this, not once, not twice, but many times.

It's just done it to people that we don't talk about. It's just a history that, as Americans, we've never reckoned with. But, you know, the way that I kind of think about it is that the history of what our government did to native people are kind of like fault lines. And the political moment that we're living through right now is the earthquake.

BLACKWELL: Rebecca Nagle, thank you for your time and this fantastic podcast series, First America. Thank you so much.

NAGLE: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: So this probably hit your algorithm this week. Jay-Z celebrating the anniversary of one of his classic albums with the collab that people online are feeling betrayed by.

[08:35:05]

That's next.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Have you heard about this controversy involving Jay-Z, the rerelease of his 1996 multi-platinum selling debut studio album in Target. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Black billionaire Jay-Z undercut the people's

boycott of Target by signing an exclusive deal for the 30th anniversary of his album "Reasonable Doubt."

[08:40:05]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's going on sale for $40. Be a special pop up for the Jay-Z "Reasonable Doubt" album at select location.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Despite the black community boycotting Target for what, two years now?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After Trump's 2025 inauguration, one of the biggest companies that decided to slash its existing DEI initiatives was Target.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Target had spent years marketing itself as a company that supported diversity, black owned businesses and social justice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not going back to Target. There's no amount of parasocial relationship that is going to force me to abandon my values.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's disappointing to see Jay-Z partner with Target when black consumers have demonstrated the power of collective action and partnerships like this can dilute that leverage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The optics of it does not look good because once again, there's a situation where black people are expressing their outrage over a situation between us and a major corporation. And conveniently, Jay-Z is swooping and working with said corporation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He did it with the NFL when Colin Kaepernick was blacklisted, partnered up and called it moving past kneeling. Meanwhile, Kap still can't get a call back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But Jay, not the only black artist partnering with Target. Jay-Z in the later years of his career has heavily preached this, you know, pro black, black equity, black ownership. You can't preach that message and then go align yourself with the NFL and the same thing here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then there's the other side of the coin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jay-Z, at the end of the day, he's not a businessman. He's a business man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Be mad about something else. It's a -- it's a thousand other things you can be pissed out about. J.P. one of them, I don't give a -- he can put a part whatever he want to -- that's a grown man and he make money. He'll be in there. What the do you expect him to do? Make it -- he going to make more money.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The question Jay-Z has the right to make the money. We know that he does. The question is, when corporations call powerful black figures to reconnect with the black community, what are those figures requiring in return?

BLACKWELL: Well, we reached out to ROC Nation and to Target first to get their response to any of the criticisms, but also to see if Target committed to reconsidering their 2025 DEI changes or any of the related changes in exchange for that reasonable doubt exclusive.

ROC Nation did not get back to us, but a Target spokesperson sent a statement saying generally that they are honored to partner with Jay-Z as he celebrates 30 years of influence. So now to you, what do you think about this partnership between Jay-Z and Target?

(END VIDEO CLIIP)

BLACKWELL: The artist formerly known as Kanye West has had some concerts canceled because of his past antisemitic views. San Antonio is trying to scrap a gig he's set to have there next week, but it's turning out not to be so easy. The mayor of San Antonio will join us next.

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[08:47:06]

BLACKWELL: You know, sometimes you come across a situation that can only be described by the technical term a hot mess. And that is what this is. A city in the U.S. having to contractually demand a performer refrain from singing about Hitler and selling swastika merch at a July 4th concert. The location, the Alamodome in San Antonio, Texas.

The headliner, the artist previously known as Kanye West. Ye, is now on an international tour and he's seen several of his dates canceled in Europe because of his hate speech. Interfaith leaders and the city's mayor there in San Antonio, they want the concert canceled, but six members of the city council have pushed back and said in a statement we can condemn hate without resorting to censorship, which could set a precedent toward limiting expression based on objectionable viewpoints.

The city does not endorse his rhetoric by allowing use of a public venue, just as a public library does not endorse every book's viewpoint simply by carrying it.

And San Antonio Mayor Gina Ortiz Jones is with us now. Madam Mayor, thank you for being with me. I will point out also from the city Council that they highlighted that this concert has generated already 1.7 million for Alamodome and hotel reservations are up 22 percent.

So when you hear the support for the concert continuing, you think this is about refusing censorship or is it about money?

MAYOR GINA ORTIZ JONES (D), SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS: Well, look, Good morning. Thank you, Victor, for having me on as the city's chief elected officer. I think it's really important that we are the best stewards of our constituents resources. And if this artist wanted to perform at Fiesta Texas or at SeaWorld, I'd feel differently. But because this is a city taxpayer funded venue, just 18 months ago,

just 18 months ago, this artist was selling shirts with a swastika on them. And as you rightly point out, we had to include amendments to our contract so we wouldn't sing the Heil Hitler song and then sell such merch.

So, I think this is a very extreme example, but it does call for, frankly, a better conversation about a process so that we don't find ourselves in this situation. I'm a proud Air Force veteran, Iraq War veteran. I went to war to defend our rights and certainly the First Amendment.

I think there's a difference though, Victor, and many of my constituents feel the same way. There's a difference between protecting the First Amendment and providing somebody, a city funded, taxpayer funded platform who has a record of antisemitic rhetoric and hate speech.

BLACKWELL: Yes. Ye has said that much of the or all of the antisemitic speech is attributable to his manic episodes because he's been diagnosed with bipolar type 1.

[08:50:02]

He ran an ad in the Wall Street Journal in January. I'm going to read just a portion of it, he said. In that fractured state, I gravitated toward the most destructive symbol I could find, the swastika, and even sold T shirts bearing it. One of the difficult aspects of having bipolar type 1 are the disconnected moments, many of which I still cannot recall, that led to poor judgment and reckless behavior that oftentimes feel like an out of body experience.

I regret, am deeply mortified by my actions in that state, and am committed to accountability, treatment and meaningful change. It does not excuse what I did though. I am not a Nazi or an antisemite. I love Jewish people.

I want to play here what you told our CNN affiliate CNN WOAI.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: I'm not willing to excuse those things away as just some mental health challenge that he was dealing with because that was again, it's not like one tweet in the middle of a night. Right? It was years of activity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Cleveland Clinic says those episodes can last for months if they're untreated. Is the mental health explanation relevant to considering this concert at all?

JONES: Look, I'm not a mental health professional. I'm the chief elected officer of my city and when I think about the appropriateness of the use of city tax dollars, I want to make sure that we are being judicious with those things and they're appropriately used regardless of how the comments and the behavior over a decade came about. I cannot speak to those things. I

can though, speak to as frankly, as a, as a veteran, as somebody who has, who knows history, as somebody who has read books about history, the importance of standing up in the face of antisemitic rhetoric and hateful speech and making sure that we are a community where everybody feels safe and welcome. And that's what I'll be focused on.

BLACKWELL: And so now that you -- this looks like the concert is going to go ahead next week, how do you make the best of this for community there that does not want this? There's obviously a large community does want to see him there.

What do you do as mayor to make sure that you are speaking to those who are feeling discomforted by the presence?

JONES: Well, we have had a very thoughtful conversation in the community and I'm thankful for those that have engaged and provided their viewpoints on this. Again, the appropriateness of a city taxpayer funded venue as a platform for such rhetoric, hateful rhetoric and antisemitic rhetoric. I think including the provisions and the contract that we talked about earlier. Hey, you can't sing your Hail Hitler song and you can't sell merch with swastikas.

I hope these have been helpful lessons for other communities that may similarly be approached about this concert. As again, as you mentioned, the artist has been canceled internationally as well as in the US. So for others that may be dealing with this, hopefully the conversation, things that we've done to protect ourselves have been helpful for them as well.

BLACKWELL: San Antonio Mayor Gina Ortiz Jones, I appreciate the conversation. Thank you for being on with me.

JONES: Thank you, Victor.

BLACKWELL: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Time for our series Art is Life. And Pride Month is wrapping up with several major cities holding major pride celebrations this weekend, one of them, San Francisco. Some communities feel left out of that conversation though about LGBTQ rights. But in the heart of San Francisco's Chinatown, the Out Museum is being called the world's first museum to spotlight the experience of queer Chinese people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HELEN ZIA, ACTIVIST AND OUT MUSEUM ADVOCATE: Helen Zia I'm in the San Francisco Bay area. I'm an author, I'm an activist, including an out lesbian activist.

DIXON NGAI, SAN FRANCISCO RESIDENT. Dixon Ngai. I'm living in San Francisco Bay area and I'm an artist from Hong Kong. ZIA: This was all the brainchild of Shang-Chi Chen who has been a queer activist in China. In a country where we wouldn't even think that people could be queer and out. And when she came to the U.S. she had the idea to also claim a space for the Chinese queer diaspora, which is large and basically show that we exist.

NGAI: I submit porcelain's wine jar in the art museum. I'm interested in the story of export Chinese porcelains. And much like the Chinese migrants, they left their home country and moved overseas. You can see the dots and lines on the wine jar are inspired by the ocean wave, which is a continuous language I use in my work, like porcelain, and people move from one place to another across the oceans.

ZAI: You'll see an opportunity to create your own story with a thread, different colored threads tracing like how you came to your own consciousness and coming out to yourself and to other people. You'll see photographs that Shang-Chi art is about times when people were not able to be out.

NGAI: My favorite one is the archive depicting the Chinese LGBTQ movement in mainland China. They are in a pretty tough time now.

ZIA: The most important thing is to be in the space. Our communities in general have been fairly invisible. And there is a view that our communities are monolithic. And in terms of the queer space, that means the assumption that we're all straight heterosexual.

[09:00:07]

It establishes we do exist and nonbinary --