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Fareed Zakaria GPS
Trump Clashes with G7 Allies; Trump and Kim Jong-un Arrive in Singapore for Tuesday Summit; Ben Rhodes Talks about His New Book. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired June 10, 2018 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:01] FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST: This is GPS, the GLOBAL PUBLIC SQUARE. Welcome to all of you in the United States and around the world. I'm Fareed Zakaria coming to you live from New York.
ZAKARIA: Today on the show, two major world meetings. The G7 Summit that just happened and the Trump-Kim summit coming up on Tuesday. Where are we on America's relations with its allies, on trade, and on North Korea's nukes?
Also, Kim Jong-un, how has he morphed from arch villain to global peacemaker? I'll give you a preview of my special that will air tonight.
And the Iran deal. The Paris climate agreement. The opening to Cuba. How does it feel to have your legacy systematically demolished by President Trump? Obama foreign policy adviser Ben Rhodes takes us inside the Obama situation room and tells all.
Finally, welcome. We'll bring you the best of 10 years of GPS.
ZAKARIA: But first here's my take. With their successes this week in the California primaries, Democrats are increasingly optimistic about their prospects for the midterm elections, but they should take note of the bigger picture when it comes to left-right politics these days.
Over the last decade the center left has been destroyed electorally across the West. Unless Democrats face up to this reality and devise a strategy to reverse this tidal wave of defeat, they might find themselves surprised one more time this November.
When you tally up their representation in Congress, state legislatures and governorships, the Democrats almost have their lowest representation in about 100 years according to political scientists, but they are not alone.
Britain's David Miliband observed in 2011 that the year before the Labour Party had received its second worst electoral result in a century. In Germany in 2009 the once dominant social Democrats had their worst showing since the federal republic was created in 1949. Things have changed a bit since 2011, though mostly for the worst. In
France for the establishment left recent results have been worse than at any time since 1969.
The situation is even more puzzling when you consider the backdrop. Ten years after the start of the worst economic recession since the Great Depression, a global financial crisis caused in large part by the recklessness of the private sector, the parties that have been punished are largely on the left and those rewarded are largely on the right.
Why? To answer this question, a group of scholars published an excellent book last fall titled "Why the Left Loses." In her foreword, Sheri Berman, a professor at Barnard College, points to some answers. One factor is the nature of economic systems in the post- World War II era with large unionized work forces, manufacturing sectors, regulated economies and safety nets. This social market economy prevalent even in the United States was largely created by the left.
Thus, Berman argues, when the whole system found itself threatened by globalization and information technology, and then cracked by the financial crisis, it was the left that found itself most at a loss as to how to respond politically. Leftists damaged themselves further, in my view, by immediately turning on themselves, with many claiming they should never have embraced markets in the first place.
It's worth noting that the so-called neoliberals, free traders such as Bill Clinton, Tony Blair, Gerhard Schroeder, actually won election after election after election, and it is their left-wing successors who keep losing.
Another factor, Berman finds, is more directly ideological. And I think here the left confronts its greatest challenge. Throughout the world, politics has shifted from core issues of economics to those of identity. Perhaps this is because of the rise of a mass middle class. Perhaps it is because the left and right do not have dramatically different programs. Certainly compared with 50 years ago when many on the left wanted to nationalize industries and many on the right wanted no social safety net at all.
But for whatever reason, people today are moved by issues of race, religion, ethnicity, gender identity. And on those issues, the left faces a dilemma. It cannot celebrate identity and diversity without triggering a backlash among the older, whiter population.
Berman summed up the larger challenge to me in a conversation. The left has always been about a hopeful vision of the future, one in which everyone prospers. But when a large part of the public is fearful and pessimistic, and nostalgic for a world gone by, offering hope becomes a hard sell.
[10:05:03] For more go to CNN.com/fareed and read my "Washington Post" column this week. And let's get started.
The G7 meeting between America and its closest allies has historically been congenial and predictable. Well, all that has gone out the window. Before this weekend's meeting in Quebec, Trump was complaining about the unfairness of allies' trade policies but the gloves really came off after the meeting. Trump tweeted that America would not endorse the traditional joint statement because of, quote- unquote, "false statements" by Justin. He was referring of course to Prime Minister Trudeau of Canada who he went on to call very dishonest and weak.
What in the world is going on?
Joining me now is Tony Blinken, former deputy secretary of State and deputy National Security adviser in the Obama administration and a CNN global affairs analyst.
Tony, I think we can both agree, we've never seen anything like this. The United States refusing to sign a joint declaration with its closest allies, insulting the Canadian prime minister. But I want to get to the substance. Does Trump have a point that there is a systematic set of predatory practices that Europeans have enacted? In other words, have they taken advantage of America on trade?
TONY BLINKEN, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: You know, Fareed, he has a point on specific products and industries, but starting a trade war with our closest allies is not the way to make that point and to make it effectively. He's now started a race to the bottom and far from retreating, our allies has threatened to retaliate. And if you are making pork, or Harley Davidsons, or orange juice, or peanut butter in the United States, you're going to have a tariff slapped on your product by some of our closest partners.
The business roundtable, some of the leading CEOs in our country, has said this is a profound mistake, that in terms of prices for consumers here in the U.S., our own ability to export and economic growth all endangered by a tariff war that the president started.
And here's the irony. Overall, Fareed, in terms of tariffs actually the United States, the E.U., Canada, were very low. They average under 2 percent. There are specific products that do get high tariffs and the president is right, for example, about milk products being sold to Canada just as the Canadians were upset that we slapped about a 300 percent tariff on tobacco coming into the United States.
There's a way to delay with that. Ironically we did. The Trans- Pacific Partnership agreement that the president tore up actually resolved the milk issue with Canada. That would be the way to do it. Starting a war with your best friends, not the right way.
ZAKARIA: Right. And I think, Tony, it's important that people understand, these trade deals are complex packages. You can always then point to one area where you feel you got shafted but, you know, you got something else. For example, the United States sells its services everywhere and often other countries resent the fact that we get that special treatment so everyone's making some concessions in return for some reciprocal concessions on the other side.
BLINKEN: Yes. That's exactly right. And that's the tragedy of having thrown out the Trans-Pacific Partnership, given up on the agreement with Europe. There really was an opportunity to resolve some of these outstanding issues, and for everyone to succeed, to have a win-win. Now we're heading back to a zero sum world and again with our closest partners.
ZAKARIA: Let me ask you about a specific charge President Trump also made which struck me as an odd one. He said that if he had been president, he doesn't think Russia would have gotten away with annexing in Crimea, invading Ukraine. You were I think deputy secretary of State at the time. So in effect he's blaming Obama for the Russian annexation of Crimea. What's your response?
BLINKEN: Well, that's the first play out of his playbook, when he gets into trouble on something he blames someone else, including President Obama.
Look, after the Russians annexed Crimea and then went into eastern Ukraine, President Obama led the world, pulling together a coalition, bringing the Europeans together on the toughest sanctions on Russia, beefing up NATO including its presence right alongside NATO's border, working with the Europeans on energy security to take away that weapon from Russia.
Now when President Trump talks about letting Russia back into the G8, that's extraordinary because since Ukraine, Fareed, they've doubled down on misbehavior, whether it was shooting that civilian airliner over Ukraine, meddling of course in our elections, poising dissidents abroad, exporting corruption every place, it's only gotten worse. They're not a responsible actor.
They were originally, of course, brought into the G8 to make it a G8 on the premise that they would be a responsible actor. They were kicked out when they didn't become one. And now it's only gotten worse.
The president basically, Fareed, is doing Putin's bidding for him. You know, we talk about collusion. Whether there was collusion during the campaign. Mr. Mueller will figure that out. What worries me is that the collusion is now, whether intended or not, which is to say whether it's tearing down our own institutions or tearing apart our alliances, President Trump is doing everything that Mr. Putin would want him to do.
ZAKARIA: Don't go away, Tony.
When we come back, I want to talk about Tuesday's big summit in Singapore.
[10:10:04] What can we expect? We'll be joined by Sue Mi Terry and Elise Hu, as well as Tony Blinken when we come back.
ZAKARIA: President Trump and North Korea's Kim Jong-un have both arrived in Singapore for their Tuesday summit. Trump has said he will know within the first minute whether the Trump -- the summit will be a success. When will we know?
Well, back with me now is Tony Blinken and here in New York Sue Mi Terry joins us. She's a former senior career analyst for the CIA, now at the center for strategic and international studies. And in Singapore Elise Hue, she is NPR's Seoul bureau chief.
Elise, let me ask you, what is your sense of what's going on there?
[10:15:02] Usually this kind of summits with heads of state are pretty carefully choreographed.
ELISE HU, SEOUL BUREAU CHIEF, NPR: This is the opposite, Fareed. In fact, I was talking to one diplomatic source from U.S. NBC Seoul who was actually saying they have somewhere between a dozen to 15 different contingency plans because typically these heads of state summit or even, you know, working level summits are a lot more choreographed, down to the number of steps it takes to get to a podium, but in this case there are so many different possible ways it could go because not only was it on and was it off but now you have the president saying that he could be walking out of it if he doesn't get a good deal.
And so this is definitely unprecedented already because it's so historic for the U.S. president and a North Korean leader to meet, but it's also unprecedented in how improvised it's going to be.
ZAKARIA: Sue Mi Terry, when you look at this, we've talked a lot about what Trump wants. What is it you think that the North Koreans -- what are they looking for? What have they gotten already?
SUE MI TERRY, FORMER DIRECTOR FOR KOREA AND JAPAN, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: Well, what they want is international acceptance on North Korea as a nuclear weapons state. They want a little respect and want to be treated like a normal country. He wants to be a normal leader of a normal country, one that's equal to the United States. And I think Kim Jong-un has already gotten that by President Trump just agreeing to meet with Kim Jong-un. Look at all this publicity. Everybody -- he's like the hottest guy on the planet right now. And everyone is looking at him. And he's being treated like a normal leader, right? So he's already gotten that.
ZAKARIA: What do you think the North Korean strategy here is going to be? Because, you know, you have said on this show many times you don't think they're going to give up all their nuclear weapons. But what -- you know, they must have processed through. They've been very strategic so far. What do you think they're going to do?
TERRY: I think there's going to be some agreement where North Korea says sure, we will denuclearize, in return for normalization or perhaps a peace treaty. They could go for a peace treaty. And they might even give something up front like it's going to look really good, that's going to look like North Korea is turning a new leaf, maybe agree to get shipped off some intercontinental ballistic missiles, or disable a nuclear facility and then drag it out, and then buy time and wait out this administration. This is a couple years' game, even 1994 re-framework. We didn't know
it has failed until 2002 when we found out that North Korea was cheating on the agreement by pushing a uranium enrichment program. So it's going to look like success. It can. We have to remember that North Korea agrees, that's not the hard part getting them to an agreement, hard part is implementation and verification.
ZAKARIA: Tony, that seems to be a very big point that Sue Mi Terry is reminding us of the historical peril. 1994 they signed a deal with the Clinton administration. They agreed to denuclearize. It was 2002 that we found out, six years later, that they were cheating. It feels to me like that's a real danger. When you helped in negotiate the Iran deal, isn't that kind of -- those kinds of checks and cameras and inspections, that's the heart of the process?
BLINKEN: Yes. Fareed, that's exactly right. And the president to some extent has already hoisted on his own hyperbole. He tore down the Iran deal, said it was the worst deal ever negotiated. Every conceivable adjective you can think of.
Now, though, can he actually meet the same standard with North Korea? Can he get the North Koreans up front as Iran did to dismantle virtually the entirety of its nuclear program? Can he get the most intrusive verification and monitoring system in the history of arms control agreements in North Korea as we did with Iran?
Look, we should all want the president to succeed. And it's great that he's pursuing diplomacy. He should be applauded for that. But what I worry about and Sue Mi has it exactly right is that he has such a strong temptation to declare success. He's built the summit up. He's built up his ability to do what his predecessors couldn't. But if he doesn't it on the substance and on the merits, we're going to be right back where we've been.
In 2005 the North Koreans made pledges on denuclearization. Again in 2012 they didn't follow through. Basically they are masters at string, ring and walk. String out negotiations, ring out economic concessions and then walk away from any commitments. The president needs to be on guard and we won't know as Sumi said whether this succeeds for many, many months if not years.
ZAKARIA: And Tony, one quick thought on, you know, the psychology. You've seen presidents operate up close. You were in the Clinton administration as well. There must be an additional temptation to have the summit succeed because he's just come out of one which sort of failed. On the heels of the G7 Summit in disarray, with the United States at odds with its closest allies, you can't have a second summit fail.
BLINKEN: Yes, that would be, I think, for the president disastrous. And that is going to further tempt him to declare success no matter what happens. And again, that's dangerous in so many ways. For example, the more he hypes the success of the meeting with Kim, the more it says to China, go ahead and lift economic pressure. After all the North Koreans are doing the right thing. That reduces our leverage to actually keep them at the table and keep them focused on doing something concrete.
[10:20:03] The real problem here, Fareed, is -- when you step back is we've now demonstrated at the G7 that America first is America alone. We're losing our closest partners and allies. That means it's harder to put pressure and to confront common challenges together whether it's Russia, China, or for that matter North Korea. Confidence in U.S. global leadership has gone through the floor. It's down about 20 points under Trump, since Obama.
Hopefully again the president can make a turn here. This is an important moment. If he can make something of it, keep the focus on, do the work that's necessary, it would be a very good thing. But not premature success declarations. That's the wrong thing.
ZAKARIA: Sue Mi Terry, when you look at the North Koreans again, how do you think they'll react if President Trump does what he claims he's going to do, which is bring up the issue of human rights in North Korea, the abductees, the policy -- randomly kidnapping Japanese civilians.
I'm again struck by the contrast with Iran. The president was scathing about the Iranian government's repression. Not to say that the Iranian is repressive but Iran is an open society compared to North Korea which really is a kind of, you know, perhaps the most repressive regime in the world.
TERRY: Well, North Koreans are not going to react well. I think Kim Jong-un is very sensitive about human rights issue. You have to remember this is a guy who's been, you know, declared by the United Nations Commission of Inquiry on Human Rights, they have a 400-page report saying this is a guy who commits crime against humanity. This is a person who runs gulags in the country. 200,000 people are in the system.
But they are very sensitive to this. So I don't know if President Trump is going to really grill him on that. Probably he might just bring it up, maybe on abduction issue just as a favor to his friend Prime Minister Abe. But I don't think Kim Jong-un is going to, you know, respond too positively to that.
ZAKARIA: Elise, paint the picture for us in Singapore. I mean, this tiny city state that is possibly the best run country in the world is, you know, hosting this extraordinary summit. People, they're intrigued, excited? What is the mood?
HU: There certainly is a lot of excitement in the muggy air here in Singapore. And folks are really viewing this with a mixed of curiosity and fascination. A lot of restaurants are bars are taking advantage of this moment by creating a lot of Trump-Kim specials. There are rocket man tacos, for instance. There's a bromance cocktail on some menus. There's a special hamburgers now that are being advertised with a #Ntothebeef. And so you can tell that even regular Singaporeans are getting sort of into this.
And also when Kim Jong-un was arriving and his motorcade was snaking through the streets of Singapore today, a lot of onlookers stopped and pulled out their iPhones in order to get images of that motorcade or with the DPRK flags flying in front and those jogging bodyguards next to the Mercedes Benz vehicles.
And so there is tight security here in Singapore. The airspace is restricted. It's hard to get on Sentosa Island which is the small island that the home of the resort where the summit will take place on Tuesday.
As you know, Fareed, Singapore security is already quite strong. Not it's going to be even tighter. They are spending an estimated $20 million Singaporean in order to make sure that this summit event is pulled off without a hitch.
ZAKARIA: Sue Mi Terry, with all this -- the one country that we haven't sort of spent a lot of time on is China, which is of course North Korea's main patron. 90 percent of the energy for North Korea comes from China, 50 percent of the food. As Tony said, the danger here is if there's some kind of declaration of victory, the Chinese can say -- because they've never really wanted to put as much pressure on North Korea as the rest of the world has. They can say, hey, we can ease up and we can have better relations again.
TERRY: The reality is the Chinese are already easing up. After Xi Jinping met with Kim Jong-un first time, we've already seen reports that sanctions are not being implemented or being loosened up. We know that North Korean seaports are showing up and on the Chinese side of the border, and so I'm afraid that political will to implement sanctions has already weakened. So after the summit, this is why I think Kim Jong-un is already in a better position today than he was in just last November, December because political will is just not there anymore. Because of all the summit diplomacy.
And it's going to be also -- we can't go back to talking about preventive strike. After all of this diplomacy. So I think this is why Kim Jong-un -- I'm saying Kim Jong-un is already in a good place right now.
ZAKARIA: And of course with all the squabbling with the allies, probably it would become harder to reinforce or tighten sanctions because now you have -- you know.
ZAKARIA: Let's put it this way, Justin Trudeau is not going to look kindly on this when the president's chief economic adviser just said that he stabbed the president in the back. Again, language and image we've never heard coming out of the White House about our closest European allies.
[10:25:01] We will be back in a moment with a preview of my brand-new documentary on North Korea. "THE TWO FACES OF KIM JONG-UN" premieres tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific. We will give you an exclusive sneak peek when we come back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If they don't denuclearize, that will not be acceptable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAKARIA: As Donald Trump gets ready to meet Kim Jong-un on Tuesday in Singapore, it might be wise for the president and the rest of us to sit back and consider the history.
Just how did Kim and the other Kims before him come to rule over North Korea with an iron fist? It's a fascinating story that you'll see in full in my latest documentary, "THE TWO FACES OF KIM JONG-UN." It airs tonight, Sunday, at 8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on CNN.
Kim Jong-un's grandfather Kim Il-sung became the first premiere of the newly formed North Korea in 1948. With Soviet help he built up his army and invaded the South, only to be turned back by an American-led intervention. For more than 45 years he ruled North Korea brutally, but he attained a god-like status and was much beloved.
We pick up the story when he dies and his son, Kim Jong-il, takes over.
ZAKARIA (voice over): There were doubts about Kim Jong-il's succession, but they gradually faded because he had one talent. He was a master propagandist.
(UNKNOWN): When Kim Jong-il took charge of the Propaganda and Agitation Department of the Workers' Party, that's when they started turning Kim Il-sung into -- into this god figure.
ZAKARIA: The great myths of the Kim dynasty, the preposterous stories of their god-like abilities and sacred bloodline -- Kim Jong-il largely created them.
(UNKNOWN): He was very influenced by Christianity in a strange way. And when you look at North Korean culture, it's, kind of, like a cult system. They have hymnals that praises the Kim family. They have what seems like a Bible that's all about Kim Il-sung's works. They have Bible study groups.
ZAKARIA: The resemblance to Christianity is no accident. Many Kim myths are rooted in the religion, perhaps because founder Kim Il-sung was raised a Presbyterian. His parents were believed to have been converted by American missionaries.
(UNKNOWN): It's a cult with Kim Il-sung as God and Kim Jong-il son of God. These are the leaders that need to be worshiped.
ZAKARIA: The Kims essentially created a religion around themselves, and that became a key driver of their regime's survival. Kim Jong-il created much of it. But it turns out he had another ambition. What he really wanted to do was direct.
(UNKNOWN): Kim Jong-il really wants to make movies.
(UNKNOWN): He loved American cinema and was a huge movie buff.
ELVIS PRESLEY, AMERICAN ROCK SINGER: (SINGING "BLUE SUEDE SHOES")
(UNKNOWN): He loved Elvis, "Gone With the Wind," but most of all "Titanic."
So inspired was Kim Jong-il that he made his own version of "Titanic."
ZAKARIA (on camera): Understanding the Kim family and Kim Jong-un in particular is crucial going into Tuesday's summit in Singapore. We hope the president will watch my show tonight to get deep insight into the Kims, their hermit kingdom, its nuclear capacity and what Kim Jong-un really wants. You certainly should. It's all coming to a screen near you, tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, when my special, "The Two Faces of Kim Jong-un," airs right here on CNN.
ZAKARIA: Many believe that the foreign policy adviser who was closest to President Obama and mirrored his thinking most closely was Benjamin Rhodes. Rhodes was also the architect of Obama's opening to Cuba. Well, President Trump has rolled that back. Rhodes worked hard on the Iran deal and the selling of it to the American people. President Trump has withdrawn from that. Rhodes was by Obama's side in Paris when the president convinced India's Prime Minister Modi to back the Paris climate agreement, making history. President Trump has withdrawn from that.
So what does it look like to have your president and your own legacy systematically dismantled by the new resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue?
Benjamin Rhodes joins me. He's the author of a terrific new book, "The World As It Is."
Ben, pleasure to have you on.
RHODES: Good to see you, Fareed.
ZAKARIA: So it must have been hard to be writing this memoir of all these accomplishments while watching so many of them being dismantled?
RHODES: It's a really interesting way to put it, Fareed, because that's exactly right. I mean, I was reliving what should have been, kind of, high moments, you know, going into the Vatican with the Cubans to tell them we're going to establish diplomatic relations; that pivotal meeting with Prime Minister Modi in Paris where he, kind of, indicated that he would be the final piece of the Paris agreement; and of course finally securing, after years of negotiations, the Iran deal. I was reliving these highs at the time, at the same time that the
incumbent of the White House was essentially doing everything he could to try to take an ax to some of these achievements.
ZAKARIA: You know President Trump is going to meet with Kim Jong-un. Do you think that President Obama wanted to meet with the North Koreans and politically felt that, you know, for him to do it would have been unthinkable?
RHODES: Well, it was funny in reliving this experience. The week I went to work for President Obama in 2007, he was in a Democratic debate and he was asked whether he'd meet with the leaders of Iran, North Korea and Cuba without preconditions. And he said, "Yes, I would."
And it caused a firestorm. And all the Republicans who are now awarding a Nobel Peace Prize to Donald Trump...
... called him naive and irresponsible. And actually, I remember my first inkling of his, kind of, political courage was one of the first times I met him, you know, he's taking all this incoming, and not just from Republicans but from Hillary Clinton and others, and he says, "No, I'm right about this," like, not talking to people doesn't work. You do diplomacy with your adversaries, not just your friends.
So he was very open to that. And of course, with Iran and Cuba, he had two signature accomplishments with them. With North Korea, what was different for us was two things. One, we had a right-wing government in South Korea the whole time that we were in office. And I think people failed to appreciate how much the fact of this diplomacy is tied to President Moon more than anybody else. He really wants to make this happen.
And the second thing is that Kim Jong-un took power while we were in our second term. And we -- we had to take the measure of him. And what we saw him do, by the way, was purge any potential opponents, including the people who were closest to China, and then, towards the end of our administration, begin to consolidate this nuclear deterrent.
And so, frankly, I think Kim Jong-un is coming into this from a position of strength. So what I see is a South Korean president who wants to avoid a war, a North Korean president who believes that he's operating from a position of strength, and a U.S. president who is not prepared.
ZAKARIA: A lot of people said he was a kind of cold man who didn't develop personal relations and that personal diplomacy is at the heart of diplomacy.
RHODES: Yeah. Yeah, this used to drive him crazy. And I describe a scene in the book, literally, where this was so annoying to him that he called me up to the Oval Office, and he's like "Why do people keep saying I'm aloof? Like, I really like David Cameron. We're buddies." You know, he's like, "Tell them to call Cameron. I love Angela Merkel." You know? So he never believed that criticism about himself.
You know, he was a kind of pragmatist. But he forged very close relationships, especially with Angela Merkel. And I describe at the end of the book, when he said good-bye to her, she literally had, kind of, a tear in her eye, at the end of this relationship but probably also anticipating what was to come.
What is also true...
ZAKARIA: And he -- and he walks away saying, you say in the book, "Poor Angela. She's all alone."
ZAKARIA: Meaning she is trying to uphold this -- this Western architecture...
ZAKARIA: ... without a U.S. president who will support her?
RHODES: Yes. And it was a really powerful moment. And we get back on Air Force One and he said, you know, "Angela, she's all alone."
And then we saw Justin Trudeau at the final summit that we were having with him in Lima. And Obama, kind of, leans over and says, you know, "Justin, you're going to have to speak up more, you know, when certain values are threatened." I saw him, kind of, trying to pass a torch, you know.
But actually what -- we were talking after that episode and he was saying, "Look, for -- I have great confidence in Angela and Justin and several other leaders, but to do that without a U.S. president is a very difficult thing."
And we saw Xi Jinping at that same summit in Peru in November of 2016. He looked pretty relaxed for the outcome of the election. And Obama was warning him, you know, "Trump's really going to -- means what he says on trade and there's a political constituency in the United States who supports him on that."
And I'll never forget, you know, Xi, kind of, sat back and, kind of, folded his hands and said, "Well, if an immature leader wants to throw the world into chaos, then the world will know who to blame."
And what I heard Xi saying is, you know, "I am now going to be able to claim the high ground on the U.S. president," in a way that China never has been able to."
And it hasn't surprised me since then that you know how, bizarrely, Xi Jinping is the spokesperson for trade and globalization around the world.
ZAKARIA: All right. I've got to ask you, in closing, you know, people often point out that presidents always go gray in the White House.
ZAKARIA: So I'm going to show you two photographs from your book.
ZAKARIA: There's a photograph when you started.
And there's a photograph, not even at the end, but I think, sort of, midway through.
ZAKARIA: And you are, as now, if I may say so, essentially bald.
RHODES: Yes. Yes.
ZAKARIA: Did you lose all your hair because of working in the White House?
RHODES: You know, I think, if you read the book, you'll understand exactly why I lost my hair.
Look, it may have been genetics, but it certainly was accelerated. And I think it was a -- you know, part of it is I was, like 29, when I went to work for Obama.
ZAKARIA: You thought you were going to be a novelist. You're 29...
RHODES: You know, yeah -- well, I'd had a few years at Lee Hamilton, but, you know, I was not that far removed from thinking I'd be a novelist. And 29 in the campaign, 31 in the White House.
You know, I was a normal person. And, you know, I think that's part of what's unique about this story in the book is that I wasn't like a Hillary Clinton or a Leon Panetta. I came into this without that kind of experience of limelight, and then to go on this journey and to be in the room for some really consequential and difficult decisions and to wrestle with that myself, to become in many ways, kind of, a punching bag. I describe in the book becoming -- the strange experience of, kind of, becoming a right-wing villain, which I didn't set out to do. Nobody -- and I don't advise anyone to do it; it's not pleasant -- and the rough-and-tumble of politics.
And what I hope I convey, though, is I feel like I came out on the other end, yes, somewhat chastened in my idealism but still maintaining the basic beliefs that led me to work for Barack Obama in the first place and that leads me to believe that 10, 20 years from now, the world is going to look more like Barack Obama and his politics than Donald Trump.
ZAKARIA: Well, the book is written with a novelist's pen.
ZAKARIA: So thank you, terrific book.
Next on the show: They say time flies when you're having fun? Well, it seems like it's been a flash, but the "Global Public Square" has been on air for a decade, believe it or not. We will take you back through those 10 years and what we learned about the world together.
ZAKARIA: Welcome to the very first edition of "Global Public Square." I'm Fareed Zakaria.
(voice over): No need to adjust your television screens. That was the very first episode of "Fareed Zakaria: GPS," which aired 10 years ago this month. In some ways, it seems like the decade has flown by, but a lot has happened in the world during these 10 trips around the sun.
When the "Global Public Square" first launched on June 1st, 2008, George W. Bush was the president of the United States.
FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON: Yes, we can!
ZAKARIA: A week later, Hillary Clinton would step aside and endorse the junior senator from Illinois to be the Democratic nominee.
Few even then predicted that the financial crisis would explode and cause a "Great Recession," nor did they foresee the highs of the Arab Spring or the lows of the Syrian Civil War. Osama bin Laden was alive and at large.
These words did not exist.
(UNKNOWN): That's what it looks like.
PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP: My fellow Americans...
ZAKARIA: President Trump.
Donald Trump was actually on screens, but in "The Apprentice."
TRUMP: You're fired.
ZAKARIA: In the more than 500 episodes of this show, we've sat down with the world's thinkers and doers, covering an extraordinary number of global events. Take a look.
(on camera): This is a special edition of "GPS," coming to you today from Tehran, a place few journalists are given access to.
Welcome to all of you in the United States and around the world.
Coming to you from Davos, Switzerland.
From St. Petersburg, Russia.
Coming to you live from London.
High atop Amman, Jordan.
Welcome to Tahrir Square in Cairo.
So let's get started on what's going to be a hell of a ride.
The big, sad story, of course, is the gruesome terrorist attacks in Mumbai.
Do you believe that Islamic extremism is the transcendent challenge of the 21st Century?
FORMER PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: I don't think it's the only threat that we face.
ZAKARIA: There is a very famous photograph of you at Tiananmen Square in 1989. What lesson did you take from your experiences in dealing with that problem?
(UNKNOWN): Islam, in and of itself, does not subjugate women and does not hold them back, but certain people choose to interpret Islam in a way that does hold women back.
ZAKARIA: Every night now in Tehran, people take to their rooftops, communicating house to house, even as they witness the violence that continues on the streets below.
CLINTON: We've got to be able to say to the Iranians, well, here's what's in it for you if you get back into the good graces of the international community on your nuclear program.
ZAKARIA: Will you be back in New York soon?
GADHAFI: (inaudible). It's final.
ZAKARIA: I have long felt that we are spending too much time, effort, resources and energy on Afghanistan, given the realities out there.
We watched history being made last Friday as a dictatorship yielded to peaceful protests.
I think that we're witnessing the beginning of a decade of change in the Middle East.
The killing of bin Laden shows that there is a very powerful way for the United States to fight terrorist organizations.
Are you the prime minister who will preside over the liquidation of Britain's world role?
CAMERON: I don't accept that for one single moment.
ZAKARIA: The problems that produced the Newtown massacre are not complex, nor are the solutions. We do not lack for answers. What we lack in America today is courage.
One day we will look back and wonder how people could have been so willing to deny equal treatment under the law to a small minority.
It's been an extraordinary six days since two bombs exploded near the finish line of the Boston marathon.
There will be no destruction of centrifuges?
ZAKARIA: Russia has now made its move. It has essentially detached Crimea from the Ukrainian government's control.
(UNKNOWN): If you haven't (inaudible), then you haven't tried hard enough.
BONO, LEAD SINGER, U2: The great songs, kind of, write you.
TRUMP: Donald J. Trump is calling...
ZAKARIA: I am appalled by Donald Trump's bigotry and demagoguery, not because I'm a Muslim but because I'm an American.
KING ABDULLAH II OF JORDAN: To label Islam under the term of "extremists" and "moderates" is actually completely wrong.
ZAKARIA: Yesterday, outside the Bataclan concert hall, where the deadliest of the attacks took place, a man began to play John Lennon's "Imagine" on the piano.
Britain voted to withdraw from the European Union, ending a decades- old, deeply intertwined economic and political association.
OBAMA: The measure of your patriotism and how American you are is not the color of your skin, your last name.
RUSSIAN PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN (TRANSLATED): We never interfere into the internal political processes of other countries.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON, ASTROPHYSICIST: We don't have a system; we don't have a civilization with the capacity to pick up a city and move it inland 20 miles.
ZAKARIA: It's hard to understand the rationale behind Trump's decision to withdraw from the Iran nuclear deal.
I don't know where India falls on the "shithole" spectrum, but it's brown and poor, which seem to be the two main criteria.
TRUMP: I will faithfully execute...
ZAKARIA: Ever since Donald Trump was elected president, I've said that, when he did something right, I'd say so. That's gotten me into trouble with some viewers, but I'm going to do it again.
What did we learn about Kim Jong-un and what should Donald Trump know about the man he might sit across the table from?
FORMER U.K. PRIME MINISTER TONY BLAIR: These are huge things that are impacting the world.
ZAKARIA: Now for our "What In the World" segment.
And now for "The Last Look," but first, here's my take.
(voice over): Throughout it all, our goal has been to help you make sense of your world. I hope that's what we've done and continue to do every Sunday.
ZAKARIA (on camera): Thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week and for the last 10 years. I will see you next week.
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ZAKARIA (voice over): Be sure to watch my latest special "The Two Faces of Kim Jong-un," which premiers tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on CNN.