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Glenn Beck

Could Andrea Yates Go Free?; Should Jury System be Changed?; Group of Hunters Wants Common Sense Brought Back to Gun Use

Aired June 26, 2006 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DIANE DIMOND, HOST: Hi everyone. I`m Diane Dimond. Glenn Beck is still away at fat camp, so he asked me to fill in for him. I promise you, tonight you won`t hear a peep about illegal immigration, "American Idol" or Canadian bacon and best of all, no lame fuchsia sweaters. I promise.
Tonight I get to talk about some of my pet issues. And chief among them is one that is at the crux of a story making headlines today. It`s the case of Andrea Yates. And for those of you who don`t remember that case, five years ago Andrea Yates literally hunted her kids down in the family home early one morning and took them, probably kicking and screaming, to a watery death in their own bathtub.

Andrea Yates won a new trial because one of the prosecution witnesses lied during the first trial. So here we go again. But why are we even going to trial a second time? Andrea Yates will likely, should probably, spend the rest of her life in custody. She can`t get the death penalty, because that was already taken off the table at her last trial.

Does anyone really think that a jury of her peers will proclaim her innocent? Well, it has happened before in Texas. Deanna Laney, Lisa Ann Diaz and Dena Schlosser who murdered their children. All were found not guilty by reason of insanity.

F.R. "Buck" Files is the attorney who successfully defended Deanna Laney. Mr. Files is with us now.

Mr. Files, let`s get rid of a myth right at the top here. Not guilty by reason of insanity, but that doesn`t mean she got to go home. Right? Where is she now?

F.R. "BUCK" FILES JR., DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Miss Laney is in a mental facility down in Kirko (ph), Texas.

DIMOND: And do you have contact with her to this day?

FILES: Yes. We talk on the telephone about once a month.

DIMOND: I know that one of her three boys, Mother`s Day 2003, she took all three out in the backyard and beat them over the head with rocks. But the youngest one survived. What`s his situation now?

FILES: He is making progress. He`s doing dramatically better than anyone thought that he would do at the time.

DIMOND: So, not guilty by reason of insanity doesn`t mean that they get to go home, but the juries in Texas don`t get to know that, do they? So is that going to work against Andrea Yates or will that work to her benefit, do you think?

FILES: It works terribly against the defendant. Our legislators simply have not trusted jurors and neither the judge nor the lawyers in the case can inform the jurors or potential jurors of the consequences of a not guilty by reason of insanity. And we know that in every case like this the jurors sit in that jury room and speculate about the defendant simply walking out the door.

DIMOND: Right. Right, right. And so they`re not likely, or they might be less likely to say she`s not guilty, because they fear that.

You know, I remember during the first Andrea Yates trial, her defense was, "I`m delusional. I had postpartum depression." Do you think we`ll hear anything new this time from her defense team?

FILES: I doubt it. She has the finest psychiatrists in America on the issue of infanticide. And there`s clearly -- she was delusional. That is such a difficult concept for jurors to understand, but I would anticipate that that will be the focus of this case, just like it was the first case.

DIMOND: And there`s been so many of the cases after Andrea Yates, maybe the jurors in Texas are more willing to accept this as a defense. Do you think?

FILES: That`s a possibility. But in Houston, remember that there was such an inundation of the public about this case and the people down there who were on the jury panel probably remembered all that and probably didn`t remember that Park Dietz was responsible for the reversal because of his less than accurate testimony.

DIMOND: That was one of the prosecution witnesses. Real quick, eight men, seven women. Women usually judge other women very harshly. But we can`t tell much from that, can we, because three of them are alternates?

FILES: Can`t tell who`s on the jury and who`s an alternate. In Laney`s jury, two of the four jurors who originally voted not guilty were women. Two were men. I agree with you that women generally judge other women harshly, and I have no idea whether they are a majority or not on her case now.

DIMOND: Yes. We won`t know until the three are dismissed right before they go into deliberations. F.R. "Buck" Files, thanks a lot for being with us. Appreciate it.

FILES: Thank you.

DIMOND: Whatever happens in the second Andrea Yates trial will be left up to a jury of her peers. Good luck with that.

Don`t get me wrong, our jury system, I think, is the best in the world. But I`ve interviewed an awful lot of jurors after they served. And I think the system has sort of gone awry.

A lot of jurors say once they`re back in the deliberation room, they don`t really know what to do next. Some say that they have felt bullied by the jury foreman. They sometimes have a clouded idea of what reasonable doubt really is. And if jurors get exposed to some horrific evidence in a particularly gruesome case, they may never get over it and suffer from post traumatic stress disorder. This is a real thing, and few states offer help with that.

I think the system needs some tinkering here. I think it`s time to start a national dialogue on this. Joining us is jury consultant Robert Hirschhorn from Dallas, Texas, and Court TV anchor Lisa bloom.

Thanks to both of you guys for being here.

ROBERT HIRSCHHORN, JURY CONSULTANT: Thank you.

DIMOND: You`re both attorneys. Lisa, let me start with you. What exactly is a jury of our peers? I mean, like Martha Stewart didn`t get 12 ladies who knew how to bake apple pie.

LISA BLOOM, COURT TV ANCHOR: That`s true. You know, Diane, you search the Constitution in vain for the term "jury of one`s peers." It`s not here. It`s a term that everybody uses, but in fact you`re not entitled to a jury of your peers. You`re entitled to a jury in most cases, and the only right you have that there not be any race discrimination or sex discrimination in the choosing of that jury.

Otherwise, they can be all wealthy people, all people who are completely different from you. You`re not actually entitled to a jury of your peers.

DIMOND: Lisa, there is this great defense recently down in Florida. A 79-year-old woman, Lena Sims Driscoll (ph). Her attorney said well, she can`t get a fair trial here in Georgia because she`s 79, and the cap for jurors` age here is 70.

BLOOM: Yes.

DIMOND: That didn`t work, though, did it?

BLOOM: No. It didn`t. I think that`s actually a good argument, because that`s closer to race or sex discrimination, age discrimination.

And look, many people over the age of 70 are perfectly bright, capable people. I don`t know if there should be a blanket ban. So that actually might be a good constitutional argument for her to make. It might go somewhere on appeal.

HIRSCHHORN: It`s not going any anywhere on appeal, because an exception has to be claimed by the juror. Just because a juror because of their age can be excused, they have to claim it. If they don`t claim it, they can serve. That`s not going anywhere.

Diane, I agree with you, our system works, it`s the greatest in the world, but we`ve got some problems with it. We don`t treat our jurors with the dignity, honor and respect that we should.

DIMOND: Fifteen bucks a day for transportation and lunch. I mean, come on.

HIRSCHHORN: I mean, it`s a losing proposition and what we need to do is spend the time honoring our jurors that serve, and the way we honor them is to pay them appropriately. I think that what we ought to be doing is raising the amount of money that we pay the jurors each day. We ought to help them with child care issues.

And I got to tell you something, Diane. I totally agree with you: when jurors are exposed to traumatic cases, the case doesn`t end with the verdict.

DIMOND: Yes, yes.

HIRSCHHORN: The case goes on with them for a long, long time. For many people...

DIMOND: And some of them really need counseling, don`t they, Robert?

HIRSCHHORN: Diane, absolutely. And that`s something we`ve got to start doing for our jurors, and until we start getting a public outcry, it`s not going to start happening.

DIMOND: Lisa, what about the idea of professional jurors, maybe volunteers or retired judges or lawyers doing pro bono work?

BLOOM: No, that makes my head want to explode. No lawyers or judges. I don`t like it. I don`t like it, Diane. It`s a good idea, but I don`t like it, and I`ll tell you why.

I`m anti-elitist. Most judges tend to be upper middle class, white and male. Certainly not all. I don`t want a professional class. Because look what jurors are deciding. They`re not deciding questions of law. That`s what the judge decides. They usually deciding only questions of fact and often whether something is reasonable or not. What`s a reasonable interpretation of the facts?

I like the idea of having a cross-section of the community come in and answer those questions.

DIMOND: Jury of your peers.

BLOOM: It`s democratic. The problem is, Diane, is that people say, you know, the only people who serve on jurors are 12 people not smart enough to get out of jury duty. I`d like to see more people conscripted in, fewer excused, and let`s get a real cross-section.

DIMOND: Yes. I know people who are 50, 60 years old. They`ve never been called for jury duty.

Hey, Robert Hirschhorn, here`s an idea, but it might put you out of work as a jury consultant. How about if we take the first 12 people who, you know, can speak English and aren`t drooling onto the table and just say OK, you`re the 12. Random pick.

HIRSCHHORN: That`s a great idea if you want anarchy. It`s a great idea if you want our whole system to fall apart.

DIMOND: Spoken like a jury consultant.

HIRSCHHORN: Because -- the reason is because people come in with bias and prejudice. You know, in the typical criminal case, typical criminal case you take 12 people off the street, 10 of them start out thinking that the defendant is guilty. That`s not the way you get a fair trial in our country. That`s not the system that we are designed to protect against.

BLOOM: ... bias.

(CROSSTALK)

DIMOND: Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

BLOOM: Get people who haven`t predecided the case, who aren`t related to anybody, but don`t get into what magazine they read, what they have for breakfast. I mean, you know...

DIMOND: What makes me mad is they throw people off like reporters, like police officers, like I guess they`re letting us on more and more lately. But there has been this bias against people who can serve.

Robert, I want to get to this idea of jury consulting, because I`m not sure everybody knows what you do.

HIRSCHHORN: Sure.

DIMOND: You go in and you help, I mean, let`s be frank here, you help the really wealthy who can pay your fee, what is it, $8,000 a day or something. And you go in, you stage mock trials. Sometimes you put shadow jurors into the courtroom to listen to testimony. And then you debrief those people later to see what the case -- where the case should go next, what`s being believed, what isn`t.

Do you think that that -- that`s what our Founding Fathers were thinking of when they talked about jury of your peers?

HIRSCHHORN: I can tell you that when companies launch a product they do the exact same kind of thing to see if the product`s going to work. When we`re talking about somebody`s liberty, when we`re talking about hundreds of millions of dollars of financial -- you know, financial matters in a case, absolutely. If clients can afford it.

And let`s be perfectly clear, Diane, I also do lots of pro bono work. I spent two months this year picking a jury in a death penalty case where I barely got my overhead covered.

DIMOND: Yes, OK, but...

HIRSCHHORN: The idea is that what we want to do is find out what are the biases, what are the prejudice, what are the preconceived notions people have?

DIMOND: Let`s talk about some of your clients, though. First of all, I remember this one. I did this story. William Kennedy Smith, Robert Durst, Terry Nichols. All of those were your clients. And you got them off, every one of them. But it doesn`t always work, does it?

HIRSCHHORN: It doesn`t, because I think you`re about to give the next list, aren`t you Diane?

DIMOND: Yes, I`ve got three more. You bet you. You`re with me, man.

HIRSCHHORN: Absolutely.

DIMOND: Ken Lay, Governor Jim Guy Tucker, Whitewater, and Danny Pelosi here on Long Island for a murder. So it`s really kind of a crap shoot, Lisa?

BLOOM: I don`t know if it`s a crap shoot. I think Robert Hirschhorn`s work, especially in the Robert Durst case, is what directly led to that acquittal. Because let`s be honest, Robert...

HIRSCHHORN: Thank you, Lisa.

BLOOM: You`re welcome. I think you`re excellent at what you do. I mean, what you did in that case was get the jury to separate out the fact that the guy had killed a man, which he admitted, cut off his body, cut off his head, threw it in the Galveston Bay. You got them to separate out the crime and the aftermath.

And afterwards the jury came out parroting everything that Robert Hirschhorn had said. So it was clearly a win for him.

But gee, Diane, what about all of the other defendants who can`t afford a jury consultant or aren`t lucky enough to win the lottery and get them to work on the case?

DIMOND: There`s pro bono. If we got in trouble, I`m sorry, Robert, I couldn`t afford you.

HIRSCHHORN: Diane, I`d be there free to help you and Lisa.

DIMOND: Did you hear that? OK, I got the time and date and motive. Robert is going to be there for me.

HIRSCHHORN: Absolutely. Here is the point of all of this. The point is that what we`ve got to try to do in our system, you don`t get a jury of your peers. Lisa is exactly right. There`s no such -- that`s not the analysis.

The analysis is let`s get 12 people from the community, because I think Lisa is right. The idea of professional jurors is a terrible idea.

DIMOND: You know, we...

HIRSCHHORN: I believe in the collective I.Q. I believe in the wisdom of jurors. And that`s how it works.

DIMOND: We could talk about this for hours. And Robert, I`m calling you later. We will talk about it for hours. Robert and Lisa, thanks very much to both of you.

BLOOM: Thank you.

HIRSCHHORN: Thank you, Diane.

DIMOND: Still ahead, he represents the USA, and he`s taking on Germany. No, it`s not the World Cup. It`s the battle of the beards, would you believe?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DIMOND: Welcome back. I`m Diane Dimond. Glenn Beck is currently on assignment at Taco Bell.

I`d like to read you now something. Here`s a quote. "We must not relax our efforts to combat the scourge of illicit small arms and light weapons, which continue to kill, maim and displace scores of thousands of innocent people every day." Now that is a quote from U.N. Secretary- General Kofi Annan last year. Thanks, Kofi. Thanks for nothing.

Because five years ago the U.N. said it wanted to do something about all the guns in the world. Today the U.N. opened a two-week conference intend to curb the international arms trade through a binding arms trade treaty. I am starting to hold my breath now.

Anyway, guns, as you know, are a problem everywhere, especially in America. According to various sources, there are anywhere from 190 to 250 million guns in the United States today. Now think about that. That`s almost one gun for every man, woman and child.

I grew up in Albuquerque, New Mexico. My uncle used to take us kids shooting and hunting all the time. Well, by hunting, I mean we were shooting at empty soda cans but we learned the safety of it all. I`m very familiar with firearms. I just think there`s too many of them out there. Plus, who really needs an AK-47 to go hunting? Nobody. Nobody is the answer to that.

The NRA has always been considered to be the voice for gun owners, but not everyone backs the NRA`s tactics. Bob Ricker is now the executive director of the American Shooters and Hunters Association. It`s a group dedicated to bringing common sense back to gun use and gun safety.

Thanks for joining us, Bob. Now what do you mean by that, bringing common sense back?

BOB RICKER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AMERICAN SHOOTERS AND HUNTERS ASSOCIATION: We feel that because of the extreme positions the NRA has taken in the past, as you mentioned, that it`s turned off a large number of gun owners. I mean, there are 70 million gun owners in America, and only about four million have joined the NRA.

DIMOND: That surprised me. Now you used to work at the NRA.

RICKER: I did.

DIMOND: Did you have a falling out with them or what?

RICKER: Well, I worked for them back in the early 80s. I was an assistant general counsel, and then I moved on and started representing gun manufacturers in California and then before Congress. And it just became clear to me that the extreme positions the NRA was forcing everyone to take was really hurting hunters and shooters like myself.

DIMOND: I used to cover Capitol Hill, and I remember when the NRA lobbyists would come up. People would literally, you know, go against the back of the wall to let them pass.

RICKER: That`s right.

DIMOND: Don`t let them talk to me.

RICKER: That`s right.

DIMOND: So what do we do here? I mean, it`s like the illegal immigration problem. Oh, I said I wasn`t going to bring that up. But we have all of these immigrants here; we have all these guns here. They`re not going to just disappear. So what do we do?

RICKER: Well, we have to -- we have to start looking at responsible, reasonable policies to keep guns out of the wrong hands and -- and not jeopardize the rights of law-abiding citizens. And what NRA does is they refuse to talk about that. They won`t sit down at a table with their critics.

DIMOND: They`re not talking about doing background checks on everybody, everybody, even those that are buying at a gun show.

RICKER: Right, exactly. And these are proposals that the American Hunters and Shooters Association want to bring forward. We want to talk responsibly to people.

You know, there`s a -- there`s a cultural divide out there. You mentioned earlier that you`re from New Mexico and that you grew up, you went hunting and shooting. Well, that`s true of many, many Americans out in the country.

DIMOND: In the red states.

RICKER: In the red states. But if you look at the inner cities, if you look -- if you talk about the historical aspect of guns in the inner city, it means a very different thing.

DIMOND: Yes, completely different. So, how does your group talk to those two very different types of cultures?

RICKER: You have to -- first you have to talk. You have to be willing to sit down and come to the table. The NRA won`t do that. I`ve talked to Mayor Menino in Boston. I`ve talked to the -- Mayor Barrett in Milwaukee. I`ve talked to the top people for Mayor Bloomberg about this problem recently.

And you know what? They`re not out there to try to take guns away from law-abiding citizens. But they want to do something about the crime that`s devastating their cities.

And now`s the time to put the rhetoric aside. Let`s stop the name calling. Let`s stop the -- you know, the political red herring issues.

DIMOND: And let`s just do some background checks on some of these people.

RICKER: Exactly.

DIMOND: We have, like, 15 seconds. But what about these buy-back programs, where police departments say all right to the community, bring in your guns, we`ll give you a hundred bucks for each one?

RICKER: There`s nothing wrong with that, but what they really need to do is they really need to work with law enforcement, because the answers are easy. They`re out there. They`re simple. And law enforcement has them. And you mentioned one: background checks at gun shows. What a simple solution that would really make a difference.

DIMOND: Yes. Bob, appreciate your time. The American Shooters and Hunters Association. Come again. Thanks a lot.

RICKER: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DIMOND: So, onto that regular segment now, where we check in with radio talk show hosts in different parts of the country to see what`s got the lines buzzing in their cities. Today we`re checking in with Dave Glover from KFTK-97.1 FM in St. Louis.

Hey, Dave. How are you?

DAVE GLOVER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Hi, Diane. Welcome to my fake living room.

DIMOND: I like it. It`s very fashionable.

GLOVER: I`m hosting a pretend poker party in a few minutes. So...

DIMOND: Oh, Texas Hold`em. I`m there.

GLOVER: That`s right. Exactly.

DIMOND: Too bad there`s too many miles between us.

GLOVER: I will say to you, first of all, it`s normal to say, I know you have some big shoes to fill with Glenn gone, but I think we both know that`s not true.

DIMOND: You know, he`s going to be really mad at me. We`ve made a lot of fun of him here today. But we`re going to move on now.

GLOVER: All right.

DIMOND: Are people there in St. Louis like me, they would, like, just care less that Nicole Kidman got married over the weekend?

GLOVER: You know, I think that -- I`m not sure. I think that people are drawn to the mundane and the silly and the esoteric whenever things get serious. You know, very serious things are going on in the world right now.

DIMOND: Yes.

GLOVER: And I think sometimes people just check out. They just want to escape and focus on things that really don`t matter to anybody.

DIMOND: Like what, the color of Britney`s hair? Did you see that? Now here we`re talking about this, but it`s so meaningless.

GLOVER: I know exactly what you mean. They caught the seven terrorists in Canada.

DIMOND: Right.

GLOVER: I, for one, am very happy that they caught them. I want them off the street. But I think you might agree that they`re sort of the short bus version of terrorists.

DIMOND: Yes. Miami terrorists, yes.

GLOVER: Moussaoui, same kind of thing. Glad to see him in jail for the rest of his life; don`t need him. But it turns out that he`s the guy that Osama was sending to Starbucks, you know, as they were planning. Not exactly the kingpin.

DIMOND: And what about the Pentagon leaking out word yesterday that hey really do have a withdrawal plan from Iraq, you know. Please, if we`re successful we know what we`re doing. That was pretty important.

GLOVER: You know...

DIMOND: I look at front page today, and it`s all Nicole.

GLOVER: The other side -- other countries don`t even need spies any more. I mean, honestly. They could just build a rumpus room with the extra money. We`ll tell them everything they need to know.

DIMOND: Yes, yes. What do you think about that? You`re an attorney.

GLOVER: Yes.

DIMOND: What do you think about mainstream press, "The New York Times", saying to the administration, "We`re going to go ahead and print it anyway?"

GLOVER: You know, I don`t know a thing about treason, and as an attorney I`m very careful about running my mouth off. I know it`s this, it`s that. But when you say things like that people shut off.

What it is, is wrong. It`s simply wrong. That yes, a free press is critical to a free country, as we`ve seen over the last couple of hundred years, but I think we`re taking it too far.

When their response is, well, it`s something of public interest, many things -- I`m very interested in what the troop movements are, but I don`t want to know that. I think it`s more important that we keep that secret.

DIMOND: Yes.

GLOVER: As I said it`s like huddling up in a football and saying OK we`re going to throw the bomb, and then the tight end runs across to the other side and says, "We`re throwing the bomb." We`re going it to ourselves.

DIMOND: Yes. I`m glad to hear that somebody is talking about this out there on the radio waves. Listen, we`ve got like 30 seconds left.

GLOVER: Yes.

DIMOND: Are people also calling in to you about this dead Chihuahua?

GLOVER: Man.

DIMOND: Come on.

GLOVER: Every time -- every time St. Louis makes the news, it`s always something like that. It`s never something heartwarming; it`s always something freakish. How do you get to the point in your life where you find yourself beating another human being with a dead tiny pet? I`ll never know.

DIMOND: Yes. Because you bought the pet from them, and the pet died and you`re mad. So you go -- yes, that was a crazy story.

OK, Dave, thanks. We`ll check in with you again.

GLOVER: Thanks, Diane.

DIMOND: OK, bye.

GLOVER: Bye-bye.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DIMOND: Welcome back, everyone. I`m Diane Dimond in tonight for Glenn Beck, who is still sleeping off his road trip.

Well, if you`ve ever been sneered at by a waiter, ignored by a sales person, or called for help with your computer and wound up talking to Joe in India, this next story is for you.

Over the weekend, I Googled the phrase "customer service sucks." You know what I got? I got 7,555,000 hits. My favorite was a guy from the Bronx who was so ticked off about his experience trying to dump his Internet service that he recorded the conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DIMOND (voice-over): This is Vincent Ferrari. This is AOL. And this is what happened when Vincent called to cancel his account with AOL using those three words, "cancel my account," 19 times.

VINCENT FERRARI, FORMER AOL USER: I don`t know how to make this any clearer, so I`m just going to say it one last time: Cancel the account.

AOL REPRESENTATIVE: Well, explain to me what`s...

(CROSSTALK)

FERRARI: I`m not explaining anything to you. Cancel the account.

AOL REPRESENTATIVE: Well, what`s the matter, man? I`m just trying to help here.

DIMOND: No, you`re not. If you were, you wouldn`t spend five minutes trying to do everything but cancel his account.

AOL REPRESENTATIVE: I mean, is there a problem with the software itself?

FERRARI: No. I just -- I don`t use it. I don`t need it. I don`t want it. I just don`t need it anymore.

AOL REPRESENTATIVE: I don`t know what anybody`s done to you, Vincent.

FERRARI: You`re annoying the (bleep) out of me. That`s what they`re doing to me. Cancel the account, please.

AOL REPRESENTATIVE: OK, and that goes both ways, my friend.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIMOND: Go, Vincent, go. That friendly customer service rep, by the way, was promptly fired by AOL, which I`m obligated to say is CNN`s sister company.

And then there is the case of Brian Finkelstein, a guy in D.C. whose cable modem wasn`t working. He called his cable company -- fortunately not the one that`s CNN`s sister company -- and asked that they send him out a technician. Or check this out: This is the technician.

You see him there? He`s on the couch asleep. He`s on Brian`s sofa asleep, and Brian grabbed his video camera, posted this on a Web site.

You know what`s really great about this one? The repairman nodded off because he placed a call back to his office so they could help him fix the problem, and they put him on hold for an hour. Way to go, Comcast. You even leave your own employees hanging.

Boy. Well, was it always like this? Of course it wasn`t. And Glenn is just as ticked off about it as I am.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GLENN BECK, HOST (voice-over): Ah, remember when shopping was fun? When you, the customer, was always right?

Back in the good, old days, stores lived or died depending on how well they treated their shoppers. Seemed like a different time, didn`t it? Salespeople were friendly, helpful. They seemed to actually enjoy their job from time to time. And they`d look you in the eye when they spoke to you.

And you didn`t need to jump up and down, and stamp your feet, and yell at the top of your lungs just to get some frickin` service!

Oh, yes, so what happened? Why is the customer no longer always right or even, I don`t know, once in a while right? Blame the big box stores with low pay and quick turnover, less time spent on training and, of course, the dreaded outsourcing. All of these reasons have made good service, for the most part, a thing of the past.

Nowadays, I don`t even think I could buy myself a burger without a side order of attitude.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: May I help someone? Please step down.

BECK: And, if you want to question your cell phone bill, well, be prepared to take an exotic trip to New Delhi.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re not supposed to. It`s just for your knowledge.

BECK: Luckily, there are some people out there fighting to give customer service, at least on the telephone, back to the customer. Adrian Miller is taking on this challenge, one company -- or at least, in this case, one seminar where 10 people sit around and get paid to listen to her -- at a time.

ADRIAN MILLER, CUSTOMER SERVICE ADVISER: I keep thinking of customer service reps as being very chameleon-like. You actually have to control and adjust the way you are and change the way you`re communicating to deal with your customers appropriately.

BECK: None of the employees in Adrian`s seminar today really resembled chameleons, though that one woman there does look bored enough to blend into her chair.

Miller thinks that part of the reason customer service reps get such a bad rap is because they often have to deal with irate customers, customers who, I don`t know, might be a little frustrated just because they`ve been on hold for 40 minutes! Excuse me again.

Customers that commit the same taboo time and time again and dare to ask to speak to a supervisor.

MILLER: The first line of defense in many organizations is to hand the call to another rep, and the reason is all they need to do is hear another voice. OK, all they need to hear is another voice and feel like they had -- they were empowered to have an action take place, they made something occur.

BECK: But there is a bigger problem here. The one thing that could render Adrian and her army of chameleons extinct: the voice recognition computer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, I`m Julie, Amtrak`s automated agent.

BECK: But don`t worry. The geniuses at GetHuman.com have cracked the code for that. Rest assured, consumer representative people, computers won`t be taking your unnecessary jobs as long as you follow a few easy tips.

The first tip is, no matter what it says, interrupt. Press zero, or zero pound, or pound zero, or zero star, or just repeatedly zero, zero, zero, zero if you have to. The next one, talk. Say, "Get human."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, can I talk to a person?

BECK: Or agent or representative. Or, I love this, raise your voice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are full of crap! I did not say Hartford, Connecticut.

BECK: Just mumble. And the last one is, just hold. Pretend you only have an old rotary phone from your grandma`s kitchen. Never thought that would come in handy, did you?

So all is not hopeless within the service rep industry. As long as people like Adrian are willing to teach and eager students like these are willing to kind of sort of listen, we may soon be on the road back to the time when customer service actually meant something. Eh, not so much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DIMOND: If you have been following the World Cup, you know how far the United States got on the soccer field: not very. We invented baseball, so how`d we do in the World Baseball Classic, arguably a real World Series? Well, America lost to Japan. And let`s not even talk about how badly we wiped out at the Olympics.

But there is one field of competition where maybe -- just maybe -- America can go the distance, literally.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BECK (voice-over): Facial hair. It`s as American as America itself. In fact, our country has flourished thanks in no large part to the bearded heroes like Abraham Lincoln, Ulysses S. Grant, those two guys from ZZ Top. And now, the torch is about to be handed to a new hero in the American tradition of whiskered greatness. His name: Jack Passion.

Jack Passion is America`s greatest hope in what has become one of today`s hottest extreme sports: competitive beard-growing. And when it comes to competitive beard-growing, Passion won`t accept anything less than total victory.

JACK PASSION, BEARD CHAMPION: I`m a competitive person by nature. And, you know, if I`m going to play the game, I`m going to play to win.

BECK: For Passion, the heartache still lingers from last season`s crushing defeat at the hands -- or should I say faces -- of archrival Germany. But this year, he`s determined to bring Team America back to its former beard-growing glory.

PASSION: I think I represent my country pretty well. You know, I mean, I`ve got the fire, you know what I`m saying? I would hope my country still has the fire.

BECK: With the New York City Beard and Mustache Championship only hours away, Passion is doing his very best to remain focused. Like so many other great athletes, Passion has had to overcome many obstacles early in his career to get where he is today.

PASSION: You know, rain, rain, the gloomy weather just destroys it.

BECK: Coach Phil Olsen has been there every step of the way, and not surprisingly he`s also no stranger to adversity.

PHIL OLSEN, COACH, TEAM USA: I`ve very, very often heard people mumble or sometimes say directly to my face as I walked by on the street, either, "Usama bin Laden," or, "Taliban." And I would always respond by saying, "Abraham Lincoln," or "Jesus Christ."

BECK: Passion owes his success to a strict training regimen.

PASSION: Sometimes I like to lift up, comb up, get a little more fluff, and then comb underneath, too.

BECK: And he also credits his strong religious faith.

PASSION: God is popularly depicted with a beard. Also, Jesus. Pretty much all of those religious dudes like you see in stained glass in churches. And, I mean, good enough for God, good enough for me.

BECK: Finally, it`s show time, but not so quick. Before arriving at the venue, Passion`s entourage must overcome one last obstacle: finding the cab driver willing to pick them up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It says off-duty.

PASSION: Middle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Got it.

PASSION: He`s got to ride bitch, because of the beard, you know?

BECK: Finally, it is show time. All the biggest names in competitive beard-growing have come out tonight: Daniel Loreno, Dennis Dickerson; from India, Par Paric (ph); the Vietnam wonder kid, Tom Cool (ph); Olalla, Washington`s, pride and joy, Gary Johnson.

And the beard to beat, three-time world champion from Heddesheim, Germany, Heinz Christofel.

It looks like anyone`s game tonight. Competition truly fierce, with Germany`s Heinz Christofel taking a commanding lead. But, wait, with the clock winding down, out of nowhere comes America`s own Jack Passion!

And the winner is...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Jack Passion!

(APPLAUSE)

BECK: Do you believe in miracles!

PASSION: Thank you. I feel great. I feel just fabulous. What a great day, and what a great contest.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DIMOND: Mom and Pa Passion must be so proud of their little body. Is it just me or did that German guy look like that Captain Crunch character, with the red jacket and the -- anyway, our next guest admits that he is fixated on facial hair, and he says his purpose in life is to -- here is a quote to remember -- "raise consciousness on the mustache making a return."

I, for one, didn`t know that the mustache had gone anywhere. Anyway, when some of his buddies laughed at that goal, he challenged them to grow a mustache for a month and let him film it. The result he calls, "The Glorious Mustache Challenge."

Jay Della Valle is with us. Thanks a lot for being here. And so you got a little newbie `stache there.

JAY DELLA VALLE, "GLORIOUS MUSTACHE CHALLENGE": I did. This is not nowhere near where my `stache has been for the past year and a half.

DIMOND: Well, you know, I know that, Jay, because we spotted you at that convention or at that championship here in New York. I want to show people, there you are.

DELLA VALLE: No, that`s not even me.

DIMOND: That`s not you?

DELLA VALLE: No, that`s my friend.

DIMOND: Oh, that looks like you. We thought that was you.

DELLA VALLE: No, that`s not.

(LAUGHTER)

DIMOND: I don`t know, you both have that sort of "My Name is Earl" thing going on there, you know?

DELLA VALLE: And that`s pretty much who I get called every day, usually, or...

DIMOND: Is that right? Is that right? You know, I was reading some of your promotional material for your documentary. And you said that the mustache was out and mostly we think about it as being with `70s porn stars, homosexuals, child molesters, assistant basketball coaches, WWF and NASCAR fans.

I think, you know, maybe that medallion hanging around your neck might do that.

DELLA VALLE: Might have (INAUDIBLE)

DIMOND: Well...

DELLA VALLE: This enhances -- this is a mustache-enhancing medallion.

DIMOND: Oh, I see.

DELLA VALLE: That`s one of the reasons why I think my mustache has so been quickly growing back, because I really just was clean-shaven yesterday.

DIMOND: Oh, really?

DELLA VALLE: No.

DIMOND: You willed it to come out, right?

DELLA VALLE: It`s part of willing it. I think the mustache, the sideburns, the chest hair, they all work together.

DIMOND: So, Jay, what do the young girls think of this? Because that`s your big deal. Men under 30 just don`t have mustaches these days because the gals don`t like them?

DELLA VALLE: Well, we`re living in a time where the male sex stereotype has become emasculated in a sense. And we talk about this in the movie. You know, the guys -- men today are being portrayed as, you know, no facial hair...

DIMOND: Aw, metrosexual?

DELLA VALLE: Metrosexuals. No chest hair, this Abercrombie and Fitch age we live in where women, the young women today want their men to resemble little boys, almost, or even girls, in a sense, these pretty-boy image.

DIMOND: No, wait, that`s a whole other topic there, I think, Jay, girls and girls. But so we understand that older women like the moustache, and we caught you showing it to an older woman. Can we run that?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DELLA VALLE: What do you think of my mustache?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Make another smile. I like it.

DELLA VALLE: Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I like everything.

DELLA VALLE: Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIMOND: Oh, you were speechless. That was a Mrs. Robinson moment. And you didn`t see it...

DELLA VALLE: She is now my girlfriend, believe it or not. We tied the knot in April.

DIMOND: So, yes, I`m not buying it. So do you have a girlfriend? Does she like your mustache?

DELLA VALLE: No. No. I don`t have a girlfriend presently, but I had one throughout most of the time I was doing the mustache challenge. And she just couldn`t deal with it.

DIMOND: Yes, well, so that`s probably why you -- OK. So tell us about your -- where can we see this video that you made, this documentary that you made?

DELLA VALLE: Well, it screened several times in New York. And right now, you know, we`ve done a lot of press, and we`ve been all over television, and we`ve been promoting it, but we`re going to find out within the next couple weeks which film festivals we`re going to be involved with in the fall. And the schedule you can check out on the Web site.

DIMOND: OK, good. We`ll put that up.

DELLA VALLE: OK.

DIMOND: And I understand some of your friends didn`t make this challenge. They just gave up?

DELLA VALLE: Unfortunately, no, some people could just not -- they couldn`t stick with it.

DIMOND: See, real men wear mustaches. I have been married to the same man for more than a decade -- OK, even more than that -- and he`s always had a beard. Anyway, hey, Jay, thanks a lot for being with us.

DELLA VALLE: Thank you.

DIMOND: Good luck.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DIMOND: The main thing I`ve learned hosting this show for one night is that it`s really hot in this studio and a lot of people hate Glenn. There`s an unending supply of hate mail that he`ll never get to, so I figured I`d go through as many as possible for him.

Rich in Florida writes, "Glenn, if you took the worst of personalities, the worst of arrogance, the worst of intelligence, the worst of divisiveness, you would come up with Glenn Beck, the mother of all losers. I`d just love to meet the idiot that does the hiring at CNN Headline News."

Now, you know, Rich, that`s not me.

Irene writes, "Hey, Glenn, when did you become the great white Oprah. Enough of the tears. We want something funny, cutting-edge commentary. We understand about your family and how you are in recovery; how about making us laugh about it instead of roll our eyes in our heads? I have some funny recovery stories. Don`t you? Thirteen years sober, Irene."

Well, Irene, from what I understand, Glenn`s contract requires him to cry three times a week, so I don`t think it`s going to change.

Ken in Columbus, Ohio, asks, "I`ve noticed lately that you`re sneaking old segments into your new episodes or, in some cases, just airing reruns. What are you trying to meet, the EPA requirement for recycled material?"

Ouch. Ken, actually, Glenn`s staff tells me that he`s just really, really lazy and he only shows up about twice a week, so, you know, they do the best they can.

This one is from California. "Using the expression `a load of crap` during your interview with the lovely, young, nicely-spoken woman who was the "American Idol`s` runner-up puts you in the potty-mouth category. I didn`t think CNN, with Wolf Blitzer and Larry King, would hire a loudmouth, wise guy like you. M.H. in California."

Well, M.H., now you know better.

You know, looking into Glenn`s inbox, by far the biggest complaint was not about his opinions, his sobbing, or even his language. It was about his wardrobe. E-mail after e-mail like this one: "You are right. You do look good in pink. It accentuates your pastiness. From a concerned insider."

I don`t know, does Glenn really wear that much pink? I guess so.

Here`s another one. "Enough with the pink shirts already. I mean, every other show it`s another pink shirt. I would hope that CNN has a bigger wardrobe budget than a bunch of pink shirts from the thrift store."

You know, actually, no one knows for sure what Glenn uses his clothing allowance for.

And finally, Rich writes, "Pretty in pink? Not so much. I`m just saying."

Well, I`m starting to feel pretty bad for Glenn. All right, I`ve had enough of beating up on him for tonight. I`m Diane Dimond. This has been fun. Glenn is back tomorrow. If you want, you can e-mail him at GlennBeck@CNN.com. My e-mail, not so much.

END