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Glenn Beck

What Do We Know about Alleged JonBenet Ramsey Killer?; Where is Justice for Wrongly Accused?

Aired August 17, 2006 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Do you like beautiful locales, exotic food and under-aged girls? Then come to Thailand. We`ve got thousands of young ladies for you to choose from. Twelve-year-olds, 9-year-olds, 3-year-olds. Visit Thailand, a pedophile paradise.

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(END VIDEO CLIP)

GLENN BECK, HOST: All right. Here is the story that everybody`s talking about today and the story that I think honestly everybody`s feeling a little guilty about, including me.

There was an arrest made in the murder of JonBenet Ramsey: 41-year-old school teacher John Mark Karr. He was arrested in Thailand. He confessed to the Thai police over there that he had killed JonBenet. In his first public comments Karr said that he was with JonBenet when she died, that he loved her and that her death was an accident.

As everybody knows, investigators had suspected JonBenet`s parents in the killing. I mean, I did. They were never charged, but the public suspicion lasted for years. Do you remember seeing the video of them? I have to admit, I saw the video of the mom and thought oh, she`s definitely in on it.

Here`s what I find fascinating about all of this. This guy was wanted in California on charges of possessing child pornography. His wife said not so much with the kiddy porn and divorced him in 2001. Now he`s in Thailand, Disneyland for perverts, and he wanted to get a job there as a teacher.

Here`s the twist. His wife says that they were in Alabama together at the time of the murder. She said, "I was with him the whole time." So what happens if this guy turns out to be another run of the mill nut job and not the killer? We`re going to take this story in two directions tonight.

In a second, we`re going to talk about the ins and outs of the arrest and who this guy really is and what`s in store for him, but I want -- I want to talk to you about something else, and it`s -- I mean, am I the only one that feels guilty tonight?

For 10 years I convicted JonBenet`s parents in my head. I mean, I never led campaigns against them or anything, but I remember thinking oh, yes, oh, yes, she did it. And maybe -- I`ve been trying to figure it out today. Maybe it`s because of the whole dressing your 5-year-old up like a 25-year-old thing. I mean, those pageants that she was in, seriously creepy. Five-year-olds -- call me old-fashioned -- should not be wearing high heels and fishnet stockings.

As a dad I can`t help but think what kind of parent would let their kids parade around like that? There are just too many freaks out there, you know. I mean, try this on for size. I think there`s a possibility, as frightening as this sounds, that there might be something right now watching me thinking, oh, yum, yum, give me some. So why would you expose your kids to that? We`re not in Walnut Grove, Laura Ingalls. It`s a sick world we live in.

That`s probably, my guess, probably, why most Americans thought that the Ramsys were guilty. You know, you can`t understand who would sexualize their daughter?

And that`s exactly how they caught this guy. He sought out some guy who was making a documentary about JonBenet, and he, you know, types in and said oh, I am just fascinated by all of this, and they began an e-mail exchange.

Well, the documentary filmmaker tipped off the police, and the police noticed that Karr was giving details that nobody could have possibly have known except for the killer.

Here`s the scary part. There is a chance this sicko might actually be innocent. Again, I don`t even know anymore. It might just -- I might be thinking that because I don`t want to prematurely convict yet another person in this case.

So here`s what I know about the JonBenet Ramsey arrest, and it ain`t a lot tonight. One, I feel guilty. I don`t know about anybody else. I don`t know if you do, but I know I feel guilty.

I also know I would never put -- you know, my daughters into one of these beauty pageants that JonBenet was in. You know what it is? I`m a guy. And I know that guys are pigs. I`m a pig. I`m a recovering pig. I fight every day to control my piggishness. I think I`m doing a pretty good job, but then I find myself begging on TV to get Jessica Alba on this show. I mean, what`s that all about? Sex. I know it, you know it.

The point is it is a slippery slope from pig to freak. And that`s why I will never expose my kids to that kind of a world.

Also, what I don`t know, I don`t know if John Mark Karr is guilty or not. Maybe because I feel so guilty about what the Ramseys went through, I can`t convict him a hundred percent. Yet there`s something that`s not right. Some things just don`t make sense here.

I also don`t know how long it`s going to be before some whack job attorney says, "Hey, hey, hey, you can`t use his confession. It happened in Thailand. They read his rights in a foreign language." Yes, yes, right, pipe down.

Let me ask an expert a couple of these questions. Pat Brown, criminal profiler.

Pat, what have we found out today about this guy?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, first, Glenn, I want to relieve some of your guilt trip. If you`re a man who doesn`t think Jessica Alba is the hottest thing on the face of the earth, what`s wrong with you?

BECK: Thank you. Thank you.

BROWN: And secondly, I still have misgivings about the Ramseys myself as a profiler. So even with this guy being brought in, there was a tremendous amount of evidence that made it look like the Ramseys were involved. So you are not alone, and you are not ridiculous for thinking that. So don`t feel so guilty about it.

BECK: OK. My gut here says something`s not right with this guy. It`s just -- it doesn`t...

BROWN: Well, there`s a lot not right with the guy.

BECK: Well, no, I know that. I mean...

BROWN: Ask his ex-wife.

BECK: It doesn`t -- it doesn`t feel right like he`s the guy. Is it - - is it me? Is it my...

BROWN: Well, I`m with you -- I`m with you there. I have the same kind of concerns. And I`m thinking wow, something`s not sitting right.

Now, here`s the problem. This guy`s clearly a person who has a pedophile tendency, and we know that.

BECK: Right.

BROWN: He loves little children. He`s put himself in jobs that are around little children. And as you say he`s off in Thailand. He`s eating spicy food because, you know, that`s what we go to Thailand for.

BECK: Right. Right.

BROWN: Something spicy, but perhaps not on the plate.

BECK: Right.

BROWN: But at any rate, so here`s this guy, who`s creepy as all get out. And he`s talking all this stuff. And -- but that is not usually what a killer does, to be obsessed to this level where he starts, you know, investigating everything and contacting everybody and talking about it. That is usually a stalker type.

BECK: Pat -- Pat, let me just float a theory by you, and I am no profiler. I mean, I`m practically a circus clown. So you know...

BROWN: Some people have called me that, too, Glenn.

BECK: OK. So here`s -- here`s what is ringing to me this guy is so wrapped up into this case, and it`s so -- I mean, it`s his whole life that he somehow or another wants to be a part of it.

BROWN: Absolutely. Look at the guy who shot John Lennon. Why did he do that? Because he wanted to be linked with John Lennon throughout eternity.

BECK: That`s what I`m feeling.

BROWN: Yes. And he succeeded in that. And this guy says I was with JonBenet. Now was he with her spiritually?

BECK: Right.

BROWN: Or was his heart, or was he with her physically? Now that`s where the police -- that`s where the whole issue comes down to.

BECK: OK.

BROWN: Doesn`t matter what he says. Three pieces of evidence are necessary. One -- at least one of the three. DNA, his DNA at the scene, his handprint at the scene, or he had to take something away from the scene that he couldn`t have bought on auction block on eBay.

BECK: Right.

BROWN: Hey, whoa, how`d you get a hold of this?

BECK: But you know, we have DNA, right? The scene, there was DNA. Were there prints or anything?

BROWN: We do have DNA at the scene. What we don`t know if it has anything to do with the scene. It could have come from something else, because it was on her underwear, and there`s a lot of theories that it wasn`t semen. So it could have been something else. And it could have come from even the factory. But there it was a handprint at the scene, as well.

If his DNA does show up on her underwear, he can`t claim he worked in a Hong Kong factory. I don`t think that`s going to work.

BECK: Right, right.

BROWN: If his handprint`s on the wall, unless he`s been having dinner over at the Ramseys` house a lot in Boulder, that`s not going to work too well, either for a defense.

BECK: OK.

BROWN: So that would nail him absolutely.

BECK: I know this means nothing in the court of law. I just found this very, very interesting. On the other side that this guy is guilty, I want to show you a picture of some psychic -- I don`t remember her name. She`s dead now. She put out -- she made a composite. She went to a police artist and said, "This is what the killer looks like." This is the composite. Have you seen this yet?

BROWN: No.

BECK: Wait, wait, wait. There`s the composite. Now put it side by side with the guy that was captured.

BROWN: Yes, well, this is what I say to that. You know, whoopee, whoopee.

BECK: I think that`s amazing. I`m not saying that she`s right, but that`s a pretty amazing...

BROWN: I have had so many psychics come to me with everything. I mean, when Chandra Levy went missing in D.C., they had her in every single body of water, under every single -- every mine shaft, and she was in Rock Creek Park. Not one psychic came up with Rock Creek Park.

BECK: OK.

BROWN: Why not?

BECK: So what -- so let`s say this guy -- let`s say this guy is not guilty. OK, let`s go there. We know he`s out of his mind. He`s -- I mean, he`s a pervert.

BROWN: He`s a creep. He`s a pervert.

BECK: Yes, he`s a pervert. And he will do something at some point.

BROWN: Absolutely. Absolutely.

BECK: What can we do to this guy? I don`t want to ever see this guy go on the streets again.

BROWN: Absolutely not. If he isn`t guilty of this, he`s guilty of something else. We`d like to keep the guy off the streets.

Now this is interesting also about JonBenet. One question I have is if he had so much access to children in his hometown where he`s living through his work...

BECK: Yes.

BROWN: ... which is teaching and child care and all these other things the, why does he need to leave there and go all the way to Boulder to pick up a child? That`s kind of weird.

BECK: There`s something wrong.

BROWN: So one other question is did his obsession -- did he really know the Ramseys and JonBenet before this all started so he became obsessed back then? Or did this all just start after the fact?

BECK: OK. Pat, thank you very much.

BROWN: My pleasure.

BROWN: John Mark Karr, he`d been charged with first degree murder, first degree kidnapping, sexual assault on a child, blah blah blah. If he didn`t do it, we let him out? I`ll tell you, my radio producer, Stu, interesting theory, what should happen to guys like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

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(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: Did it cross anybody else`s mind that Patsy Ramsey might -- might have been up there pulling a few strings up in heaven? If I get blamed for murder and then I die, the first thing that I do, I go right for the TiVo. Then I`m freeze framing the dirt bag who killed my kid, and then I`m spending the next few months appearing in dreams with the TiVo trying to tell police exactly where he is. I mean, I do the whole "woooo Thailand!"

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: For 10 years everybody, including me, thought that John and Patsy Ramsey murdered their daughter. Now, apparently that`s not the case.

Convicting people through the media, you know, not through the court of law, really pretty much something we`ve mastered in recent years, isn`t it? We have Richard Jewell. How much do you feel bad for that guy? Gary Condit. Not so much on him. Or Kobe Bryant. Or really Michael Jackson. OK. Richard Jewell, I feel bad about. The Duke lacrosse team, no, not really.

All of these people presumed guilty by the media before anybody was convicted of anything. Now don`t get me wrong. I don`t want to go to a dinner party with any of these people. And in some cases, they were guilty.

But how much has this presumption of guilt hurt them? No matter what Richard Jewell, the guy suspected, you know, of the Atlanta Olympic Park bombings, wrongly, 1996. No matter what he does, for the rest of his life, everybody is going to be, like, "Richard Jewell, Richard Jewell, oh, you`re the Olympic Park bomber guy." I mean, he`s got that nightmare to live with his whole life. He didn`t do it.

Lloyd Saager, he called me up this morning on the radio show when we were talking about this. Tragically his 2-year-old daughter, Jordan, was murdered in 2000. He was the lead suspect until years later his baby sitter was convicted. He lost his kids for over a year.

Lloyd, how are you, sir?

LLOYD SAAGER, FALSELY ACCUSED OF DAUGHTER`S MURDER: Pretty good, sir.

BECK: Is this a -- is this a tough day for you? Or how do you feel today, seeing this same story, you know, go out with JonBenet`s parents?

SAAGER: I feel relieved for Mr. Ramsey and the late Mrs. Ramsey. I suffered through their same emotions of fear and terror.

BECK: Yes. You thought that your daughter had a disease, because she was bruising. And then you get a call in the morning that she`s going to the hospital, and she`s -- when you get there she`s dead, right?

SAAGER: Yes, sir.

BECK: Tell me the story.

SAAGER: I was working in Dallas about an hour and a half away from my home, and my wife had dropped my daughter off at the baby sitter`s that morning so she could go to work.

And I would say probably about 1 p.m. I was called by the family practitioner`s nurse, to say that she had fallen of the bars at Burger King and that she was hurt.

And immediately, I asked how bad was she hurt, and she said, "Well, we wouldn`t have been calling you if it wasn`t serious." So I got in my truck and I started heading for home. And halfway home I called the emergency room in Gainesville where we were currently living, and her family doctor got on the phone and said she had passed away 20 minutes prior.

BECK: Holy cow. So now that night they pull you into an interrogation room and you all of a sudden realize whoa, whoa, whoa, I think I need an attorney here. How -- what was it like when your -- I mean that day you find out your daughter is dead, and then all of the sudden they turn to you and say looks like you. What does that feel like?

SAAGER: It`s horrible. It`s -- it`s -- you want to feel hurt and pain, the pain that you should be feeling, and you can`t. It`s just terror.

BECK: Wait, wait. How do you mean. You mean -- at that moment the pain of your daughter`s death kind of goes away?

SAAGER: Exactly. Exactly. I couldn`t -- I couldn`t hardly even focus on it. I was more focused on defending myself.

BECK: So maybe -- so when we saw Patsy Ramsey -- you know, I`m fuzzy on this. I have to go back and look at the tape. But I remember feeling that maybe that was part of it, is it didn`t seem real. It didn`t seem genuine. It didn`t seem like she was mourning enough or whatever. You`re saying that that goes away automatically, because you`re in full fledged save your life mode.

SAAGER: Exactly. And you`re also in shock. I mean, there`s a lot of shock involved with what goes on when you lose a child. But yes, I mean we weren`t -- it`s -- in a lot of people`s words we were never given the right to grieve as parents, as we should have.

BECK: Right. Did you -- how much did the frustration -- I would think that I would be so angry that I would be in a room and they would say that to me, my head would explode. I`d need the duct tape to wrap my head so I could stay to them, "Stop wasting time. I didn`t do it. Go catch the killer." Did you have that frustration?

SAAGER: Exactly. And honest -- to be honest with you, I was not interrogated very long at all. Actually I was asked a few preliminary questions. What they did was focused on questioning my wife, who was questioned for about nine hours that night, the night that her death was ruled a homicide. And so it was my wife that went through you that hell.

BECK: But you lost your two kids for a whole year.

SAAGER: Right. Exactly.

BECK: I can`t imagine what that is. Just destroyed your family from six ways to Sunday on this horrible, horrible tragedy.

So let me ask you. Because you`ve got to be a better person than I am. O.J. Simpson, do you think he did it?

SAAGER: I don`t know. I mean...

BECK: Do you really -- do you really feel that way? When you see things on TV, can you really get to a point where you`re like, "You know what, I`m not going to judge the guy"?

SAAGER: It`s the media is the reason that I -- I will not rush to judgment.

BECK: Good for you. Good for you.

SAAGER: Because you never can tell. What you only see in the media - - I mean, look at the O.J. Simpson case. What`s more compelling in media than to blame the ex-NFL football star, the Heisman Trophy winner, as opposed to a common thief who may have just wandered in her house and killed her?

BECK: Lloyd, best of luck for you and your family. Sorry for your loss all the way around. Thanks a lot.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Every day on 250 stations nationwide, my radio show is heard in Denver. It`s on 630 KHOW and in Miami 610 WIOD, Philadelphia 1210 WPHT. The morning guy is Michael Smerconish.

He is the author of "Muzzled: From T-ball to Terrorism, True Stories that Should Be Fiction". He today had a full page story that he penned in the "Daily News" in Philadelphia. He talked about profiling. He knows -- he`s also testified about this in front of Congress -- Michael.

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, AUTHOR, "MUZZLED": Glenn.

BECK: What do you think, profiling?

SMERCONISH: I think that the administration has been derelict in its duty for the last five years in not profiling, and let me be clear. I want everybody to be screened. I went Glenn Beck to be screened. I want Michael Smerconish to be screened, but I want some folks screened more than others.

BECK: Right.

SMERCONISH: And those who I want screened more than others are those who have commonalities with radical Islam. Because by gender, by ethnicity, by religion and yes, Glenn, by appearance, they`ve got it all in common.

BECK: Michael, I mean, I`m with you on this, because I really think we need to use everything at our disposal. However, times are changing. We`re already seeing that it`s not just young Arab males. I mean, it generally is.

I believe in profiling -- it should be expanded to having a conversation with a person, being able to ask, even if they`re politically incorrect any frickin` question I want to, and if you don`t want to answer it or you don`t answer it right, you ain`t getting on the plane.

SMERCONISH: You and I have both had the experience of flying El Al to Israel in the midst of the Intifada. And you know, in Philly, we call it the hairy eyeball. I want folks to be given the hairy eyeball.

BECK: Right.

SMERCONISH: I want street smarts to kick in. And let me tell you something, Glenn. The dynamics of this may change. Right now it`s not Americans. It`s not white guys from suburbia who are bald. It`s not urban African-Americans. It`s not Jews. It`s not kids. It`s not the military. So let`s stop wasting time with them.

BECK: Right. Well, I mean, yes and no. I agree with you, but I don`t think this is broad enough, because the terrorists know our criteria. Have you ever noticed they always seem to be ahead of us? Whenever we start to put something in, they`re on to the next thing.

I truly believe, Michael, they know that we profile. They know that we look for certain things, and that`s why they`re branching off to women with children right now. It is going to change.

The one thing they do have in common is radical Islam. How do you profile for that?

SMERCONISH: Well, I think that when Thurston Howell III and when folks who resemble him start to commit acts of terrorism, we`re going to need to expand the net.

But right now, Glenn, I mean, my God, look at the mug shots of those 19 on September 11. I defy you to tell me they don`t all look alike.

BECK: I know.

SMERCONISH: And I don`t mind getting the crayon letters anymore. I`ve been saying this consistently for five years. Bring them on. You can send them to Glenn. Because this is what I believe. And let me tell you something. Finally -- finally, I`d like to believe that middle America is waking up. You know, as you like to put it, the real America is saying that makes sense.

BECK: I know, I know. That brings me to this. You and I -- I mean, I think most America understands the border and knows it needs to be fixed. We understand the airports are broken. It`s driving me nuts to say hear, "Oh, the airports -- of course we know that." We know they`re not checking our ports, et cetera.

However, you are really kind of an expert on this particular issue. You`ve testified in front of Congress. You`ve written a book about it. You`ve really studied this. How much of America do you really believe wants to stand in line and answer really politically incorrect questions for their safety?

SMERCONISH: You know, there was something in the "Wall Street Journal" this week on the front page called the Kajito (ph). You can do it in a booth. They put your hand on the device and then you answer questions with a touch screen.

BECK: Right.

SMERCONISH: I`m sure you saw it.

BECK: Yes.

SMERCONISH: I think we`re all prepared to answer those questions because we realize we need to defeat radical Islam.

BECK: Michael, thanks a lot.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: Just finished yesterday "Fusion" magazine for our September 11th edition of "Fusion" magazine. Did you see that one out of three Americans actually believe the United States government was involved in 9/11? We are looking at all of the conspiracies on 9/11 and we are refuting them, piece by piece. Also, my piece that I finished yesterday on the promises that we made ourselves on September 11th that maybe as we approach the five-year anniversary we should look at them again and say, "Jeez, did I do any of those things?"

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: We`ve been working on our September 11th television show. You`re not going to want to miss it. It`s going to be a really good salute, but kind of forward thinking, not necessarily just in the back. Same with "Fusion." By the way, we`ve allowed the operators to continue to take calls and take subscriptions tonight. We`ve extended the deadline one more night. If you would like to subscribe to "Fusion" magazine, you can do that at glennbeck.com.

All right. Here we go, "The Real Story," where we look beyond the headlines to figure out why a story should actually be important to you. Tonight, I want to start with the news of an open letter that 21 former generals, diplomats, national security officials are sending to President Bush today to express their concern about this administration`s policies in Iran and the rest of the Middle East.

Earlier in an interview with the "L.A. Times," retired Army Lieutenant General Robert Gard, one of the generals who signed the letter, noted that the Bush administration supported Israel during the war with Hezbollah and said, quote, "This administration is clearly so beholden to Israel that it raises the concern that we might actually go along with a military strike on Iran."

Look, here`s the real story, and to me it`s really, really simple: Hezbollah is a terrorist organization. I don`t know how you missed that one, Lieutenant General. Since when do we give the benefit of the doubt to the terrorists? Since when do we even question whether the U.S. should be supporting a group of terrorists over our biggest ally in the Middle East?

These generals, they don`t like the Bush doctrine. And you know what? That is totally cool with me. We have a right to disagree. Good for you. But don`t confuse a legitimate debate over foreign policy with support for our greatest ally in the Middle East, Israel.

Besides, if the lieutenant general, you know, really wants to change our foreign policies, then I`ve got a tip for you, General: Stop the letter writing and run for president. Honestly. We need some more choices next time.

Next, I love this one. Jimmy Carter told a German newspaper, "Der Spiegel," that Israel was, quote, "unjustified" in their attack on Lebanon and they had no, quoting again, "legal or moral justification" for their massive bombing.

But here`s the real story on this one, and honestly it`s the type of thing that you`re just not going to hear anybody else say, probably because they`re too politically correct to tell you actually what they think. But here it is: I mean, it`s Jimmy Carter. Who cares?

OK, finally a federal judge in Michigan has ruled the government`s wiretapping program unconstitutional and it must be stopped. You remember that the NSA put this program into effect after 9/11 to monitor the conversations of suspected Al Qaeda terrorists and their network.

Well, our good friends at the ACLU -- you can always count on them for a massive headache -- they didn`t like that idea very much, so they filed a lawsuit on behalf of some journalists, scholars, and a bunch of other people that claim that they have been hurt by this program because they talk to people in the Middle East all the time and their conversations just might be monitored. Oh, no, God forbid "The New York Times" gets another story from Hezbollah.

In a ruling today, Judge Anna Diggs Taylor included the quote from the Supreme Court Justice Warren in 1967. Quote, "It would be indeed ironic if in the name of national defense we would sanction the subversion of our liberties," end quote.

All right, going to give you the real story here in a second, but I`ve got to give you this side note first. Judge Anna Diggs Taylor, you`ll never guess who she was appointed by: Jimmy Carter. Not kidding you.

All right, here`s the real story. This program only focuses on people who the government has a reasonable basis to conclude -- and I am quoting directly from this judge`s ruling today -- one party communication is a member of Al Qaeda, affiliated with Al Qaeda, a member of an organization affiliated with Al Qaeda, or working in support of Al Qaeda. That`s one of the people on the phone. And where one of the parties is outside of the United States. Got it?

Those are the only people they can listen to. The ACLU or, for that matter, anybody else hasn`t proven one instance of abuse of these powers, not one time where we have monitored somebody we shouldn`t have.

So trot out all the people you want that claim they`ve been hurt because the government`s monitoring their conversations. But the bottom line is: The person on the other end of the phone, if they`re not telling you about the plot to blow up a passenger jet next week, then you got nothing to worry about.

Michael Gross, he`s a former ACLU attorney, a guy who gets really, really mad at me really, really fast. Doesn`t this ruling, Michael, make us all a lot less safe?

MICHAEL GROSS, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: No, the ruling doesn`t make us less safe. Just the opposite. You`re not safe under a dictator. You`re not safe under an imperial presidency.

BECK: We`re not talking...

GROSS: The president broke the law. That`s what this finding is.

BECK: No, he didn`t. No, that is a -- Michael...

GROSS: Let me make it clear to you: The FISA rule not only says that you want to tap, go ahead, first, go to the private secret judge and give him your reasons, which is what everybody has been doing for years and never once been told, no, you can`t...

BECK: Right.

GROSS: But this president says, "I`m not going to the judge." FISA not only says go; it says, if you don`t go, you break the criminal laws of the United States of America, punishable by five years imprisonment. This is a crime.

BECK: OK. OK. OK. OK. Michael...

GROSS: That makes the finding today criminal conduct.

BECK: Hang on just a second. In this judge opinion, you know this is going to the Supreme Court, and there are disagreements. I mean, I don`t want to waste time on what the president is pulling this out of. He says he believes and so do a lot of other scholars that he has reason to do it because he was given permission to use force, any means he needed to stop Al Qaeda from hitting us again.

GROSS: Why won`t he let a judge rule on that? Why won`t he tell a judge what he`s doing? Why won`t he go back to Congress and say, "You know, that law is too difficult for me to keep the country safe. Amend the law. Do this with it. Do that with it"?

BECK: Because, Michael, you`ve got people like "The New York Times" that will print things. They`re harming us. Every time, we don`t -- Al Qaeda, I don`t know if you`ve noticed this, keeps things secret.

GROSS: The truth doesn`t...

BECK: How do you fight...

GROSS: The truth doesn`t harm us.

BECK: Yes, it is. No, Michael, it does. Did you ever -- I mean, World War II, man, "Loose lips sinks ships"?

GROSS: You think it doesn`t harm when the president told us we`re not doing any surveillance without warrants, when he told us that -- and he, in fact, he is. Do you think it does no harm when the chief judge of the FISA court walks out? He hasn`t made a statement as to why. What can it possibly be? Why not go back to Congress?

BECK: We`re talking Al Qaeda, Michael. We`re talking Al Qaeda, Al Qaeda.

GROSS: You don`t even...

BECK: Let me ask you this. Would you guys have represented the Nazis in World War II?

GROSS: Glenn...

BECK: That`s a serious question.

GROSS: It`s interesting that you mention that, because that`s exactly what was brought up at the Nuremburg trials. At the Nuremburg trials, the judges said, "Look, we gave them these warrants without probable cause because the National Socialist Party, the Nazis, told us the country is in a wreck, it`s in terrible, terrible straits. Give us a chance, and we`ll put everything straight." "Trust me" is exactly what Hitler said.

BECK: All right, all right. Take your medication.

(CROSSTALK)

GROSS: There`s an imbalance.

BECK: Michael, you frighten me. My wife is at home right now going, "I think my husband`s going to be killed."

GROSS: Didn`t you ever hear of the balance of powers, Glenn?

BECK: Yes, I have heard the balance...

(CROSSTALK)

BECK: Have you ever heard of war, sir? Look, look, look, here. There was an editorial in the "Wall Street Journal" -- I have heard this from officials over in London that, if this attack that we have -- we didn`t, but the British foiled last week, if this would have been hatched and anchored here in the United States, we wouldn`t have caught it because their laws, because they have already dealt with the IRA, they have this ability that George Bush is using. That`s why we foiled this attack.

GROSS: The English, and the French, and maybe the Germans, as well, have not been treating Muslims equally, and that`s why they have a greater problem than we do.

BECK: Oh...

GROSS: We don`t have the problem with Muslim-Americans because we treat them equally. Once you start breaking the law...

BECK: Michael, this is not about Muslims.

GROSS: ... and treating people unequally -- of course it is.

BECK: I will stand right next to you...

GROSS: Well, if the president calls it Islamic fascism...

BECK: Wait, wait, sir, let me make this -- please, let me say this. I might...

GROSS: Denigrate an entire religion?

BECK: Michael, Michael, may I?

GROSS: Sure.

BECK: You and I, sir, we have respect for each other. I like you, Michael. I really do. I think you`re an intelligent man. You scare me, but I think you`re an intelligent man. I will give you my word: I will stand right next to you the first time somebody can make a case that we are targeting Muslims.

This is Al Qaeda. If you`ve got somebody who is -- and this is where the -- this is where it hits the fan, man -- when you target Al Qaeda, I say go for them.

GROSS: Glenn, here`s the facts.

BECK: If you`re targeting, you know, just anybody, well, I`ve got a problem with that, Michael.

GROSS: Our attorney general went before the Congress and he was asked just exactly what you`ve just asked, and he was told, "I can`t tell you. It`s a secret, and I won`t tell you." So you don`t know who the calls...

BECK: Sometimes in war, sir, there are secrets. Michael, thanks a lot

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Tonight, an incredible story about a truly amazing man. NBA legend Dikembe Mutombo is spending millions of dollars of his own money to help the people of his homeland in the Democratic Republic of Congo. This guy is like a seven-foot Oprah Winfrey.

He is a man who`s gotten so far in his own life he has amassed a very large fortune, but refuses to sit back. Instead, he chooses to give back. And in the process, this NBA giant -- and I do mean giant; he`s a mountain -- he`s leaving his people with a legacy unlike any other.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BECK (voice-over): There`s no doubt Dikembe Mutombo is truly a giant in the NBA.

ANNOUNCER: Good position for Mutombo, puts it on the floor...

BECK: Four-time NBA defensive player of the year, Dikembe Mutombo is a living legend, making tens of millions of dollars throughout his career.

ANNOUNCER: For Mutombo!

BECK: But for all the fame and fortune that life has afforded him, Dikembe comes from a much more humble beginning. He grew up in the Democratic Republic of Congo, a poverty-stricken, war-torn nation in desperate need of basic things we take for granted, like medicine or a doctor`s office.

Here in the Congo, the average life expectancy is about 43. Every day children under 5 die from preventable diseases like polio and measles, diseases that don`t even exist in most parts of the world. In the Congo, 20 percent of all newborns don`t reach their first birthday; they die because they don`t have access to a simple vaccine.

But Dikembe plans on changing all of that. He`s building a $14.5 million hospital. It`s the nation`s first fully equipped medical facility to be built in more than 30 years. It`s a place where kids can get vaccines and anyone will be treated for whatever their ailment.

Dikembe is giving back to his fellow countrymen and, in the process, honoring his mother, Biamba, the namesake for the new hospital.

Dikembe`s mother died three years ago, a victim of the circumstances that have taken so many other lives in the Congo. They believe she had a stroke, but they can only speculate because she never received medical attention. It was the onset of a civil war and venturing in the street brought real danger of being shot or worse. So instead of going to the hospital, Dikembe`s mother stayed at home that night and died in Dikembe`s father`s arms.

Dikembe will not let his mother`s death go in vain. In her memory and in the hopes of saving millions of lives, he`ll open his state-of-the-art hospital in September. He says it`s a gift to his people and a thank you for all the blessings in his life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BECK: Absolutely incredible story. And now Dikembe Mutombo is here with us.

How are you, sir?

DIKEMBE MUTOMBO, NBA STAR: I`m doing good.

BECK: What a pleasure.

MUTOMBO: Thank you.

BECK: What an amazing tribute to your mother, to be able to grow up the way you did and to be able to honor her this way. What does that feel like as a son?

MUTOMBO: I think it mean a lot. She was not just a mother for Dikembe Mutombo; I think she was a mother for everybody. And she was a special mom who brought this special child into this world.

BECK: Is it true -- I think most Americans, we`re not even familiar with the Congo and what`s going on. Is it true that you`re so famous, you`re such a target that you, because of security reasons, couldn`t even come back to attend her funeral?

MUTOMBO: Yes. When she passed away, it was a very tragic moment and there was still a civil unrest that cause her death. And I just couldn`t make it, because I was scared for my own life. And I found out, until the situation get better, I couldn`t go. And they was trying to ask me if they want to hold her funeral, and I told my dad, "You all can go and just bury Mommy. And if that`s the way God wants her, let it be that way."

BECK: What is it that -- I`m so -- there are Americans -- I know me, in my own life, we get so fat and lazy, we take everything for granted, you know? I mean, there`s so many people that walk around and think, "Oh, America will always be like this. Oh, these troubles are past, everything else." They don`t realize how fragile freedom really is.

What do you see now as a new American citizen, you`ve come over here and you think to yourself, "Americans, you just don`t get it, you take so much for granted"? What is it that we`re missing, that we take for granted?

MUTOMBO: I think, in America, you`re free to do whatever you want to do, traveling. I don`t have much problem no more where I (INAUDIBLE) my passport somewhere and wait for the visa for two weeks. Maybe if they don`t call me for the interview or not, despite my stature of being a basketball superstar, it was a big problem for me. Now, I feel free. I can go in a lot of countries, visit, and get, not just a red carpet, but you have good treatment than being from an African continent.

BECK: You`re kind of a -- I mean, this is who you are. You start this hospital, but it goes much beyond that. It`s my understanding you have also adopted your nieces and nephews.

MUTOMBO: Nieces and nephews, yes.

BECK: And you`ve brought them here, and they live with you as...

MUTOMBO: And they go to school.

BECK: That`s tremendous, just tremendous. What do you say to people who are in your position? I mean, I hear a lot of sports stars that say, "I`m no role model," you know what I mean? What do you say to that?

MUTOMBO: I believe that each one of us, we have a big role to play in our society. Despite accepting or not, we still have an obligation to do something in our society, and that`s why the world was created. The world creates for somebody else to make a difference for the future generation. And if we don`t do it, we`re going to leave so much work for our next generation to come to do it, especially our children and our grandchildren, and I`m glad that I`m part of the solution that`s taking place.

BECK: Where do you go next? This is it for you in the NBA, is it not, soon?

MUTOMBO: Maybe one or two years.

BECK: Where do you go from here? Are you kind of the NBA`s Oprah, where you are going to just do good stuff?

MUTOMBO: I love my philanthropic works. I think I want to do it maybe for the rest of my life. Why not? I have a great organization, and we have so many plans to do. We hope that by the time the hospital open and everything, we can start thinking about something else, maybe building a school or build a basketball gymnasium, because I would love to see the next Dikembe Mutombo coming in the NBA.

BECK: That`s great. What a pleasure, sir. Best of luck.

MUTOMBO: Thank you. It was my pleasure.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: OK. Before we get into the hate mail, I`ve got to do the "I Hate Glenn Beck" quote of the day. Here it is. Quote, "Beck, an obviously unstable individual, carries on in the manner of a homegrown American fascist. This is the type of filth to which the American public is subjected on a daily basis."

Here`s the source. I love this. Oh, no, the World Socialist Web site? Man, I thought the world`s Socialists would love this show? Now all we`ve got left are Marxists and Leninists and like a dentist or two.

Tom in Florida writes, "Glenn, as a Tom, I strongly object to your use of President Tom as a pseudonym for the Iranian nutjob president. Please refrain from using this term in the future. Tom, Florida."

Sorry, Tom, can`t do, no, sorry, not so much. I can`t please everybody, and I know that. If I start calling him "Ahmadimajab" again, then everybody`s going to -- you know, they`ll call in, "Hey, you can`t -- stop calling him that. I`m an Ahmadimajab."

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And, you know, let me tell you something. I`m not going to negotiate with Ahmadimajabs, and I`m not going to negotiate with Toms. And I mean it, strict policy.

Edward from Missouri writes, "Who are you, and where did you come from? Are you a liberal or a conservative, or are you both? I haven`t figured you out, so therefore I don`t trust you. I`ll continue to watch you until I`m sure of who and what you are. Edward in Missouri."

Well, I mean, honestly, Edward, if you`d keep watching until you figure it out, then I guess I have to purposely be evasive just to get the time out of you. So here`s a sentence just for you, Edward: "I support raising taxes to fund illegal wars that save trees and stop abortions." I should get another month out of this guy.

Gary writes in, "Glenn, I just saw a picture of this guy who admitted killing JonBenet, and it`s got to be the creepiest thing I`ve ever seen. Your comments, please. Gary, Los Angeles."

Gary, you might be right. I mean, first, in case you haven`t seen him, here`s John Mark Karr. When I saw this guy, I thought -- I mean there isn`t anybody that`s going to come out and say, "I can`t believe he would do something like this," you know? People who knew him and heard the confession probably said, "Oh, yes, yes, that one makes sense."

Other possible nominees for the creepiest pictures, child molester John Couey. That guy`s hot, eh? This mutated snake with two heads, that creeps me out. And, of course, this. I mean, what`s up with the lips there? Who am I smirking at? It looks like I just lit somebody on fire and I`m strangely enjoying it.

Tomorrow on the radio program, it`s clothesline Friday. Anything you want to talk about that we haven`t addressed here tonight or you want to get your voice heard, call tomorrow.

END