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Glenn Beck

Civil Debate Over Politics?; Former Defense Secretary Weighs in on Top Issues; How Can We Win Iraq War?

Aired October 06, 2006 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST, "NANCY GRACE": Who`s next? It`s GLENN BECK. Stay with us here on Headline Prime and GLENN BECK.
GLENN BECK, HOST: She means it, too.

Coming up, we`ll rock your world with my new feelings about Mark Foley.

Plus former defense secretary, William Cohen, talks about Iran and World War III. That`s coming up next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Tonight`s episode is brought to you by "Mark Foley`s Big Book of Excuses". If you`re a gay congressman and like to e-mail teen boys, read "Mark Foley`s Big Book of Excuses" and explain your troubles away. Forward by Jim McGreevey.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: Here`s where we are today. Let me just give you an overview of this. We have a national debt of $8.5 trillion which -- trillion I thought it was a number I made up in, like, the third grade. We have half a million households in Los Angeles that are living on less than $15,000 a year. Can you imagine that? Middle class completely being wiped out in L.A.

We wake up to news of school shootings, of pedophiles, the nut jobs from the God hating fags church and, to top it all off, we`re facing the biggest battle in American history with the people who are literally trying to bring the messiah back at any cost and who want to bring about what they call an American Hiroshima. You know who I`m talking about: these guys.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (speaking foreign language)

GRAPHIC: Death to America!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: I mean, so, what is the whole country talking about? Roughly a month before an extremely important election that could decide our course where the House and the Senate are up for grabs? Yes, of course, we`re talking about Mark Foley`s dirty e-mails?

Here`s the point tonight. Rome`s not burning; America is burning. And our politicians are twiddling their thumbs as the nation goes up in flames. Here`s how we got there.

Mark Foley may or may not have broken the law. If he did, then he should absolutely go to jail. He resigned, and he should -- he should be gone from Congress. There should definitely be an investigation. It should be handled by the FBI.

In the meantime, the page program should be shut down until all of this gets sorted out, end of story. Let`s move on with our lives.

So, why is everyone spending so much time talking about this guy? I have a theory. I believe it`s because nobody in office or, more importantly, running for office has the guts or the spine to talk about what`s truly important. Because they`re afraid we might not like what they have to say.

For example, let`s take Iraq. Republicans basically have two answers. Keep fighting the war the way we have been, which isn`t really going too well, or put more troops on the ground, which nobody wants to hear.

The Democrats also have two answers. Stay the course, which really isn`t going too well, or pull our troops out. I`ve seen the polls. Nobody wants to hear that answer, either.

Why should they talk about that? Why should they talk about that or illegal immigration or the fact that we could be vaporized at any minute or any of the other billion vitally important issues we`re facing right now? Our politicians are spineless, and they`re using Mark Foley as a David Copperfield-esque diversion. They are using the safety of our children to change the focus.

We can`t let the Democrats do it with pedophilia, just like I don`t want the Republicans to do it with the war on terror. We need to make decisions with our heads and not our hearts.

You know, when I started this show back in April, I made a pledge. I said I would never, ever do that, oh, insane left versus right, talking heads in boxes debate. I hate that.

Unfortunately, I think today, I have to break that pledge. I found two politicians who, at least their staff, tells me they`re reasonable human beings and they`ll just talk about facts and give us straight answers on stuff.

We all agree about Mark Foley. You know, the rules are they can say what they want, but there`s no screaming, no bashing each other, and just stop with the politically correct answers: just tell me yes or no.

If they don`t abide by those rules, I`m going to call them out on it, and we`re going to shut their little box off. This might be TV history; I`m not sure. Could be like the moon landing, the Kennedy assassination and the last episode of "M.A.S.H." all rolled up in one.

But before we get to that, here`s what I know tonight. I know that our country is facing battles of biblical proportions, and if we don`t wake up to this perfect storm, we`re destined to lose. The people sense it; you sense it; I sense it. Our weasel politicians either don`t sense it or they don`t have the courage to discuss -- discuss it.

We need to forget about the parties and unite as Americans. What binds us together are our principles and our values. What divides us are our policies. Those aren`t big deals.

Here`s what I don`t know. I don`t know if it`s possible to find two politicians, one Democrat and one Republican, who will actually stay on the issues and not just bash each other. We`re going to try.

Marsha Blackburn and Kendrick Meek, you guys -- Kendrick, you are on the left, but they`re not left-right, how are people going to understand? Kendrick is on the left; Marsha is on the right. Let`s just, yes or no, guys, by the way, thank you so much for doing this with us.

REP. MARSHA BLACKBURN (R), TENNESSEE: You`re welcome.

BECK: Let`s go through a couple things. Yes or no, let`s see what we can agree on. Foley is sleazy, and you`re glad he`s out of Congress.

BLACKBURN: Yes.

REP. KENDRICK MEEK (D), FLORIDA: Oh, yes, I mean, that`s...

BECK: Good. We got a lot. Just give me a yes or no answer.

BLACKBURN: Yes.

BECK: FBI should investigate if anybody covered up. I don`t care what party they`re from, they should go to jail.

BECK: Yes.

BLACKBURN: Yes, yes.

BECK: Good. You are an American before a Republican or a Democrat.

MEEK: Of course.

BLACKBURN: Yes.

BECK: Good, OK, great. I love, see how much better this is. Now, let`s get some straight answers.

I want to talk to you guys about things that I think Americans want to know and they`re tired of the spin. So let`s go over a few of these.

And Kendrick, we`ll start with you. I`d like to keep these yes or no, but you can say, "I want to come back to that and answer," but I`ve got a lot to go through, all right?

So we`ll go with -- we`ll go first with Kendrick and then, Marsha, you can answer, as well. First question, Islamic extremists exist. We are in a global war. This is the biggest threat that we have faced since World War II. Yes or no?

MEEK: Oh, yes, we have a major threat, and I would like to come back to that.

BECK: OK, Marsha, yes or no.

BLACKBURN: Yes, and I would like to come back to that.

BECK: OK, we got a lot. OK. Be careful on what you want to come back to. We`re -- if we don`t win this war, it will be the end of the west as we know it -- Kendrick.

MEEK: OK, how do you win the war? That`s the question.

BECK: No, no. No, no, don`t spin on me.

MEEK: No, I mean, it`s kind of -- it`s kind of difficult. I`m not trying to spin, I`m trying to answer. And to say yes or no to a question like that...

BECK: The question is...

MEEK: ... is almost impossible.

BECK: We have to win. If we don`t, it`s the end of the west. Yes or no?

MEEK: We have to win, what is the definition of win? I mean, that`s the question I`m asking.

BECK: Let me ask...

MEEK: Because no one can answer that question right now. What is winning?

BECK: Marsha?

BLACKBURN: Yes, Glenn, we have to win. Yes.

BECK: OK. All right. Let`s see. Illegal immigration is a huge threat to our nation. Yes or no, Kendrick?

MEEK: Of course it is.

BECK: Marsha?

BLACKBURN: Yes.

BECK: Spending is out of control, and politicians like you guys need to cut programs. Some of those programs will be good. Yes or no, Kendrick?

MEEK: Yes, especially as relates to spending.

BECK: OK. Marsha.

BLACKBURN: Absolutely, yes.

BECK: One of the biggest problems in our country are special interests groups.

MEEK: Yes.

BLACKBURN: Yes.

BECK: OK. Companies should receive crippling fines if they repeatedly hire illegal aliens.

MEEK: Oh, yes.

BLACKBURN: Absolutely and I wrote that provision. Yes, thank you.

BECK: I will vote -- here, two, the last two questions. Then we`ll come back and talk about what you guys want to readdress. I will vote against my party if I believe my party is wrong -- Kendrick.

MEEK: Of course. I`ve done it before.

BECK: Marsha?

BLACKBURN: Yes, and I`ve done it before.

BECK: The other party is right about -- blank. Kendrick?

MEEK: Well, right about starting the ethics committee today on the Foley -- on the Foley case in a bipartisan way.

BECK: OK, Marsha. The other party is right about...

BLACKBURN: You know, I`m -- I can`t pull something out of my hat, but I`m sure that there are things that they are right about.

BECK: Oh, come on!

BLACKBURN: I`m thinking. I`m thinking.

BECK: Think about -- put politics aside. You can come up with...

BLACKBURN: I am, I am. I`m trying to think and, you know, the ethics committee, I thought, I will have to say, and we can come back to it if you want to, but Mr. Berman and Mr. Hastings today, I was pleased to see them step forward together. And they were right about that.

And I was trying to think of some specific policy issue, and I can come back to it. Give me a couple minutes and I`ll...

BECK: OK. All right.

MEEK: I can give you some ideas.

BECK: All right. OK. Kendrick, I want to come back to what you wanted to talk about, without bashing the other side.

MEEK: Sure.

BECK: You wanted to come back to the war and Islamic extremism, et cetera, et cetera. Tell me what your -- your plan is to win the war.

MEEK: Well, A, I don`t look at it as a war. I look at it as an effort against terrorism. And we`re going to have to pull nations throughout the world together to deal with this issue.

And it`s just not guns, mortar and bombs. It has a lot to do with diplomacy. It has a lot to do with making sure that we have understanding throughout the world, and those that are very dangerous to the world, period, and the United States need to be dealt with.

BECK: So are you -- are you a "put more troops in, leave it the way we are" or pull our troops out?

MEEK: Well, I`m with bringing -- making sure that we redeploy our troops and making sure that we`re there to support the Iraqi government. But we do need to let the Iraqi government know that we`re not just there forever and ever and ever and ever. If we want to protect America, we have to do it through homeland security.

BECK: Marsha, I`ve only got now 30 seconds. Do you want to address anything else?

BLACKBURN: Well, I -- we have to win, and the war on terror, it is a global war. And, Glenn, your statement is exactly right on that.

The other thing, when I`m out in my district, our constituents are talking about the impact of illegal immigration. They want it stopped. They do not want to see any type of amnesty at all. And they want to be certain that we stand steadfast on that. They are in hopes that the Foley scandal is not something that is going to cause us to take our eye off the ball.

BECK: Good. Thank you.

BLACKBURN: They want to be certain we`re focused.

BECK: You got it. Thank you guys. Thank you both very much. Appreciate it.

The election season heads into the home stretch. Democrats are not the only one using the Mark Foley scandal for political purposes, oh, no!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: With election day just a month away, voters are now being forced to make a very tough choice: whether to vote for the party that, for years, had Mark Foley as one of its members or, instead, to vote for the party that, on numerous occasions, worked alongside Mark Foley.

This November, why not instead cast your vote for the American Nazi Party? We may hate Jews and blacks, but we`ve never even met Mark Foley.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is GLENN BECK.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Iran has made a proposal regarding their nuclear program. Let`s let France monitor them. Oh, yes, no, that`s good. Forget about the blind leading the blind. That`s the blind leading the psychotic.

France resisted the tempting offer, so what`s Iran`s next move?

Given the escalating insanity of the region of the world, I thought it might be a good idea to talk to somebody with some actual credentials. I had a chance recently to speak with former secretary of defense, William Cohen, about Iran, the world and his new novel, "Dragon Fire".

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BECK: Secretary Cohen, how are you, sir?

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I am well, thank you.

BECK: Very good. I have not read your book, but I understand that in your book, you -- and this is why I love these fiction books, because they are -- they`re so close to reality, and who better to talk about reality than you. You`ve put together three countries, another axis of evil, if you will. What is the -- it`s Russia, Germany and China, right?

COHEN: Right, right.

BECK: Are you concerned that these guys are future enemies?

COHEN: What I`ve tried to do is to point out there are geopolitical struggles under way at all times, and there are certain individuals and can be individuals inside these countries and governments that can be plotting on their own to fill a vacuum, if they can create a vacuum.

And what I`ve tried to do is to take a rogue Chinese general, link him with a Russian oligarch and -- and then to commit acts of terror in the United States that masquerade as accidents.

But the purpose is to divide the United States from its allies in Europe and Asia so that you could then have a repetition of something that took place back in 1922, and that was a secret treaty between Russia and Germany.

BECK: You know, I -- may I -- may I float something by you as a fiction writer and also as a former secretary of defense? I get a lot of calls from people who are wondering why China and Russia are making these deals with Iran and kind of playing the side, you know, side -- the back channels, if you will.

And they really believe, a lot of people do, that they -- that China and Russia are using Iran like we used Osama bin laden against the Russians. Do you think there`s anything to that?

COHEN: I think that Russia has had a long-term -- a long-term relationship with Iran. China is developing one. But I think it`s for -- more for the purpose of their oil.

China is -- has been a developing economy now. It is a very robust economy. It`s going to get stronger and bigger, as will their military. Russia is making a comeback by virtue of its oil production and also access to oil.

So I think it`s more strategic. They are looking to Iran to befriend Iran, in order to ensure that they continue to have access to the rich supply of energy...

BECK: Do they, if you were sitting over there in the role that you used to have, wouldn`t you be saying, "Wait a minute, we really -- these guys want to destroy the west. That might not be in our best interests"?

COHEN: This is the exact argument that I would hope that the administration is making to both Russia and China, saying that short-term interests maybe to support Iran, long-term interests that could create even greater instability than currently exist in that region. That will not work to China`s interests or to Russia`s interests.

So, therefore, please support the United Nations Security Council resolutions, enforce your own resolutions. If they don`t comply with the demands made by giving up their nuclear power or weapons projection capability, then they will enforce sanctions. That will do more to get their attention than anything else we can do.

BECK: You -- in your book, you don`t have -- the main enemy is not radical Islam. Do you know something we don`t know? Are we missing something?

COHEN: No, there are many books out that point to radical Islam as the threat that we have to contend with in the future, and I think that`s a very serious threat.

But terrorism can come in many forms. We had Timothy McVeigh, who blew up an FBI building here in the United States, in Oklahoma City. There is domestic terrorism. There can be foreign terrorism. It can wear many faces.

And so what I tried to do is to take a little bit of an offbeat approach to this by saying, don`t just look to radical Islam as a source of terrorism. It can come in many directions and from many directions.

We had anthrax sent through the mails...

BECK: Right.

COHEN: ... into New York and here in Washington. We still have no idea who sent it, so that`s what I was trying to point out.

BECK: How much sympathy do you have or empathy do you have for Donald Rumsfeld?

COHEN: Oh, I think anyone who has been in that position as secretary of defense understands it`s a tough, tough job in the best of times. It`s far tougher in the worst of times. And when you`re in the middle of a war, those are very, very difficult times.

And so I have a good deal of empathy for him. He has committed much of his life to public service. He`s in a difficult position now in terms of where we`re going with this war, but...

BECK: We live in such a time when everybody is just pulling each other apart and yelling at each other and pointing fingers. Tell me -- take the opposite. Tell me something that he`s really done right that you`ve been -- you`ve sat back and went, "Wow, was that good."

COHEN: Well, what Secretary Rumsfeld has done, in my judgment, is to try to build upon the work of his predecessors, just as when Secretary Perry turned the reins over to me, so to speak, I tried to build on what Secretary Perry was doing in terms of the transformation of our military.

I believe that Secretary Rumsfeld has really devoted himself to achieving this goal. It`s not easy. It takes more than one term. He`s now halfway through his second term.

But his -- I guess his goal has been somewhat diluted in terms of its energy because of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

BECK: Right.

COHEN: But that has been something he has been really devoting much of his energy toward.

BECK: William Cohen, thank you very much. Best of luck.

COHEN: Pleasure being here. Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: All right. Bob Woodward has a new book out where he talks about George W. Bush and his handling of the war in Iraq. Hey Bob, you`re not exactly breaking "Watergate Part Deux" when you tell us that things aren`t going well over there. We get it.

What is interesting, however, in Woodward`s new book is his explanation on how George W. Bush has solicited the advice of Henry Kissinger, and Henry Kissinger is telling Bush crazy things like, we got to win the war.

Well, he`s right. We do have to win the war, but how is the question. What we need is a strategy. And I don`t care if it comes from the Republicans or the Democrats. We`ve come too far, and pulling out isn`t a plan. It`s the absence of one.

Joining me now with his thoughts is retired Lieutenant Colonel Robert Maginnis.

Colonel, what do we have to do to win the war?

LT. COL. ROBERT MAGINNIS (RET.), U.S. ARMY: We have to kill the enemy. It`s very simple, Glenn.

BECK: Thank you for saying that.

MAGINNIS: Somehow we have to find out who is the good guy and who`s the bad guy. Clearly, you have people we`ve been fighting across the spectrum. You`ve got the jihadists that invite themselves into the country.

You have the Sunnis that, you know, on again/off again against us. You have Muqtada al-Sadr. Part of the government, but he likes to fight us in Najaf and in Sadr City.

You have the Iranians coming in to be, quote, unhelpful. You have the Turks from the north, interestingly, after the Kurds, and they`re trying to push them south. You have the Syrians that aren`t cooperating. So you have a bag of problems here. And so, trying to fix the enemy.

Now of course, recently, most of the killing has been sectarian. You`ve got 24 different militia in Baghdad alone. And they`re going after one another. That`s where you see 15, 20 people that are either beheaded or shot in the head with their hands tied behind their backs. So it`s really fixing the enemy.

And then, of course, standing up a military over there. And we`re working at it.

BECK: Right.

MAGINNIS: And it takes a while and so that they can take control of all the battle space, all 18 provinces and especially there in Baghdad. So, those are things you have to do.

BECK: Let me -- let me ask you this. I think part of the problem is America -- it was misframed, I believe, by the Bush administration. Americans don`t understand why we`re even -- they don`t understand the connection to the philosophy of "let`s end the west." Do you understand what I`m saying?

MAGINNIS: Well, I do. Osama bin Laden clearly does. He says Baghdad is the center of the combat.

BECK: Right.

MAGINNIS: And his deputy says it`s the arena of the jihad. So, clearly, the enemy, the people that bombed us in New York City at the Twin Towers, they understand what they want to do over there.

BECK: So -- so, how do convince Americans? What -- who`s got the message that Americans need to hear?

MAGINNIS: Well, they need to understand the reality of some of these jihadists. The Khalid Shaikh Mohammads of the world that really would rather cut our heads off than look at us.

And in fact, there are a lot of them out there. It`s just a matter that, you know, our special operating forces have gone all over the world. And we`re in 125 countries, by the way.

And we`ve killed a lot of them, but we haven`t killed, clearly, enough. And they, in fact, want to get these big, nasty weapons, weapons of mass destruction. They, in fact, would use them in our cities to kill a lot of us.

So is it going to take another one of these 9/11 episodes, perhaps even far worse...

BECK: Yes.

MAGINNIS: ... where tens of hundreds of thousands of people are killed to convince people? I hope not.

BECK: I will -- I will tell you. Tomorrow I believe we have a guest on who`s going to tell us about what is being called the American Hiroshima. That is frightening stuff.

Lieutenant Maginnis, thank you very much. I appreciate it. Lieutenant Colonel Maginnis.

Bye-bye.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: All right, let`s find "The Real Story" behind the news. This morning, I read yet another headline about the violence in Iraq. This time, it was a car bomb, Baghdad, killed 14 people, blah, blah, blah! I don`t know about you, but I get to the point -- I`m so desensitized by the violence in the Middle East that I don`t even read the stories anymore. And that`s a problem.

I did see one headline about Iraq that did catch my eye. It read, quote, "Waiting for the imam`s return to Earth," end quote. That was the headline. It made me realize that most people on the planet have no clue as to what the real story really is when it comes to what truly motivates those who are causing the violence in the Middle East.

Now, I know when I say the word "imam" or "Mahdi," you know, you say that, and most people`s -- they start falling asleep. Somebody right now in Nebraska is searching for the clicker. I get it. Bear with me for 60 seconds. I`ll explain why this is so important for you to understand.

First, in really simple terms, the Mahdi is an Islamic figure who is supposed to return to Earth and it changes the world into a perfect Islamic society right before it ends. To many Muslims, the return of the Mahdi is an event as significant as the second coming of Christ is to Christians.

All right. Now, let me read you the words of the Iraqi cleric, al- Sadr, someone who has been a troublemaker from the beginning for the U.S. We should have killed this guy a long time ago.

He recently told a crowd of thousands that America`s primary purpose for the war is to prevent the return of the Mahdi. Quote, "This is all happening because the Americans are waiting for the Mahdi. Whatever they did in Afghanistan and Iraq are all attempts to hijack the Mahdi`s return."

Make no mistake: It doesn`t matter one bit whether you and I believe in the Mahdi or the messiah returning to Earth anytime soon. They do. They believe it. To those causing the violence, this is a holy war, and not just a holy war, but a holy war, a battle of biblical proportions, literally, not just for their country, but for the very coming of their savior.

Everyone always writes to me and says, "Glenn, OK, I understand the problem. What can I do to help?" Here is how you do it. You must pass this information onto everybody you know. I know it sounds nuts, but this is a piece of the puzzle that people just don`t understand.

People can`t comprehend that the intended outcome of this violence is all about Armageddon and the return of the messiah. It sounds nuts. We cannot count on the media to do the spreading of this word, because the media doesn`t understand religion. And I mean normal religion, not nut job religion only. We have to count on the individual people: you.

Next, we`ve been talking for the last few days about the new 700-mile fence that`s supposed to be built along some of the Mexican border. But the media now has shifted the story to how Mexicans are reacting to the fence. They`re begging -- begging -- the president not to sign the bill because it would make the border more violent. Right. How is that possible, Mr. Drug Lord?

The real story today is that illegal immigration has been so prevalent for so long that we can`t even recognize its consequences any longer. We all have focused on the people not learning English or the millions of dollars we`re paying in family aid for their children. But what about the less obvious effects?

In Los Angeles, I was there this weekend, I pick up a magazine, and I`m reading this story. Los Angeles is a city that is influenced by illegal immigration perhaps more than any other. The middle class, according to this article, has all but vanished. A recent report determined that over 71 percent of neighborhoods in Los Angeles are now considered to be either upper or lower class.

The middle class, which for so long has been the majority and the meat of America, is now relegated to a distant third place. Almost 500,000 households in L.A. earn less than $15,000 a year. Imagine earning $15,000 in a year where the average home costs more than $500,000.

Meanwhile, over 250,000 households have a net worth over $1 million. That is the greatest concentration of millionaires anywhere in the country, and the divide is only getting bigger. I read a report -- in fact, I read report after report after report, and nobody even dares to mention that illegal immigration might be a contributing factor. Gee, do you think so?

And that`s a shame, considering that it is not just Los Angeles that is being impacted. Of the top 10 cities with the smallest percentage of middle-class neighborhoods, seven of them are places where illegal immigration has been a huge problem, cities like Bakersfield, California, Houston, Dallas, El Paso, Tucson, Arizona. Gee, what do they have in common? Is this really a coincidence?

I`ve been telling you for months that this situation with our borders is just one piece of the perfect storm that is forming against us. And if you don`t think that immigration or a declining middle class is a big deal, just consider that there has never been a great society that has ever prospered with just rich and just poor. And neither will we.

So how do we turn this around? CNN`s Lou Dobbs has covered both the threat of illegal immigration and the declining middle class extensively, and I sat down with him earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BECK: Am I wrong? Can a society live without a middle class?

LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Sure. There are societies all over the world living without a middle class. But this is America, and the middle class is the foundation of everything this country stands for: a land of opportunity; a quality of economic opportunity; a quality of educational opportunity.

And towns, communities, cities without a middle class, you know, have turned their back on the heritage of the nation and, in my opinion, have assured a failure of our future.

BECK: Was Carroll Quigley right on the shadow government, on the companies taking over and really controlling everything? Because it`s really the only thing that I can put my finger on to say, "Why aren`t we doing anything about illegal immigration?" We`re run by companies now, aren`t we?

DOBBS: Well, both political parties are run by the very same people, corporate America, $2.4 billion in lobbying each year. No other special interest comes that close.

The power of corporate America -- and I`m talking about big business. I`m not talking about small business. There`s even a fiction in this country now that small business, medium-size business, and corporate America are all the same. They`re not.

Corporate America is working against the interest of the medium- and small-size businesses, are working against the middle class, destroying jobs, not creating them. Small business continues to create jobs in this country, more than 80 percent of them. But the truth is that corporate America is dominating our legislative and our electoral system.

BECK: Wouldn`t you go further than that? It`s not just corporate America. I mean, it`s global corporations. I think we`re being turned into MexAmeriCanada.

DOBBS: Well, there are some obviously who would like to do that through the North American Union. And I think the Bush administration should be held to account for what they`ve tried to do with the so-called Security and Prosperity Partnership. It`s absolutely disgusting, by any standard, what these elites have tried to do in this country.

And, frankly, I can`t wait. We`ve been examining this problem for some time, this story, this issue. I find these people so repugnant I can`t even express my disgust on a family broadcast like yours.

BECK: But I have to tell you, you know, you say this, and the way I hear you phrase that right now, it`s the Bush administration. And I feel the same way. I`m a conservative. I voted for Bush. I can`t even begin to explain what they`re doing. But it`s -- you know, I feel as if...

DOBBS: By the way, they can`t either.

BECK: I know they can`t. The Democrats and the Republicans are taking us to the same frickin` destination. One`s just taking us in a train, and the other is taking us in a plane.

DOBBS: Well, it`s about time people woke up to one thing, though: They`re taking us. But the fact that we`re rolling over and allowing people to claim they`re Democrats and claim they`re Republicans, and not a single -- you just described yourself as a conservative.

BECK: Right.

DOBBS: What the heck does that mean, the difference between a conservative and a liberal today, a Democrat and a Republican?

BECK: There`s a difference between a liberal and conservative, not Republican...

DOBBS: Let me tell you. You may in your mind have a fixed understanding of that. But as a political force and any way in which to express your political will, it means nothing.

BECK: Yes, you`re exactly right. You are exactly right.

DOBBS: Because if this country does not awaken to what we`re doing to our middle class and the fact that traditional American values -- independence, equality, self-reliance, the common good, the national interest -- are the values that we all should be working toward, whatever label you want to aside in partisanship, fine. But those are the values we`ve got to turn to, and we`ve got to become an aspirational society again.

BECK: What is going to finally wake us up?

DOBBS: Leadership. Leadership.

BECK: Where are they?

DOBBS: Well, I`ll tell you what: They`re out there. The fact is there`s so much noise and silliness over all of these wedge issues -- gay marriage, gun control, abortion, whether we have "under God" in the pledge of allegiance. For God`s sake, it`s America. If you want to say "under God," say "under God." If you don`t, don`t. It`s individual liberty, individual responsibility.

Why do we even allow the airwaves, the national dialogue to be polluted with this nonsense?

BECK: I`d just ask you though: Where are the leaders? I don`t see them.

DOBBS: The leaders...

BECK: The leaders, do you know who the leaders are?

DOBBS: Well, I certainly...

BECK: I mean, I don`t mean us as TV people. I mean the people. We, the people, are the only leaders, and that`s trouble, man.

DOBBS: Actually, I think it`s the only salvation. Daniel Patrick Moynihan wrote a very important book almost 40 years ago called "Participatory Democracy." And it was a time in which people were engaged in great issues, civil rights, Vietnam, talking about the future of the country. When`s the last time, Glenn, you heard somebody say, "I`ve got this five-year outlook on the nation. This is what I think we should be doing. I think this is how we should be committing ourselves"...

BECK: Right.

DOBBS: ... "as a nation"?

(CROSSTALK)

DOBBS: We have fools on both the left and the right, Democrat and Republican, talking about their fears, their anxieties, their political correctness, their high-bound orthodoxies, whether it be in the media, whether it be their partnership, or whether it be academic, instead of independent thinking about who you are as an American and what we owe one another to assure that equality.

BECK: Lou, thank you very much.

DOBBS: Great to be with you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: Am I the only one in America not molesting children? No, I think that`s a legitimate question, because I`m beginning to feel very alone. I`m beginning to look at it and say, "Gee, I don`t know. I mean, everybody`s doing it. There must be something to having sex with children."

What is it? What is it that I`m missing, America? I would like to know. To me, having sex with children just doesn`t seem hot or interesting at all. But, hey, hey, I know I`m in the vast minority in America today, or at least it seems so, but maybe you can help me out how having sex with children is a good thing. I don`t get it. I don`t get it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: I really don`t. And is it me or does it seem like there`s some new creepy child molestation story virtually every day? It was August 30th, this was the day after charges against John Mark Karr, Captain Highpants, were dropped in Colorado. And I shared my belief at that time that the people in this country have had it with these molesters. And I warned them.

I said we`re not surrounded by you; you`re surrounded by us. And we`re not a country that sits idly by as our children are taken advantage of and changed for life by some monster.

The very next day, that prediction came true, unfortunately. After hearing that his 2-year-old daughter had been molested by a neighbor, a dad goes in, breaks in through a window of the guy next door, the suspect`s house, and stabbed him 12 times in the chest.

Three weeks later, a Long Island father was arrested for planning to set fire to residences of four convicted sex offenders living nearby. Just a day later, a man in Texas was beaten by a mob of 15 people after he allegedly exposed children to pornographic magazines while they were on the playground.

And now another case of apparent vigilante justice has occurred. An inmate serving life in prison for molesting and killing a 10-year-old girl was branded with a makeshift tattoo, reading "Katie`s Revenge," across his forehead. There it is.

Now, prison officials aren`t talking yet. The girl`s father believes that the inmates are responsible. And given that a relative of Katie`s is serving time in the general population at the same prison, probably not too far-fetched.

Dr. Jeffrey Ian Ross, he`s a criminologist and the author of "Behind Bars: Surviving Prison."

Jeff, that picture actually came from the guards. Were the guars involved in this, do you suppose?

JEFFREY IAN ROSS, PHD, CRIMINOLOGIST: Possibly, possibly. What we learned is that the photograph was released to a woman who has some sort of a blog, and I think the photograph was taken as evidence into the assault against Anthony.

BECK: I mean, if you look at that, that took some time. How does something like that happen in prison?

ROSS: Well, it wasn`t done voluntarily, I don`t think.

BECK: Well, I don`t think he said, "I don`t know. I`d like to have `Katie`s Revenge` on my forehead." I mean, I get that, but, I mean, it took a lot of time, didn`t it?

ROSS: It must have. If an inmate gets a tattoo, usually it`s voluntary. And they get it from the in-house tattoo artists. Having tattoos, getting a tattoo is against most jail and prison regulations, so somebody must have held him down or he was drugged, and it took some time to do the artwork. It`s not the most sophisticated kind of jailhouse tattoo, but it did take some time.

Now, whether or not the correctional officers were complicit in that they were looking the other way when this happened or they were holding the man down at the same time, it`s hard to say. There`s an ongoing investigation.

BECK: You know, this is the worst -- this is the absolute worst part of me. As a dad, I`m so sick of these guys. There`s part of me that says, "Oh, that`s the least of your worries is getting that tattoo."

I sympathize with the father who broke into the neighbor`s house and stabbed the guy to death, and that`s horrible. Is it really as bad in prison for molest -- and we should stop it, but not too quickly -- is it really as bad in prison for child molesters as we`ve grown up hearing?

ROSS: Sure. Sure. There`s a pecking order in all correctional facilities. And individuals who are charged or convicted of sexual molestation, killing a young child, are the lowest of the low. And typically what happens is they are either asked if they want to go into segregation or they are removed from general population.

Sometimes there`s an advantage for somebody who`s charged like that to go into general population to see how they can handle it. If it`s too tough on them, then they will ask the correctional officers to be placed in some sort of segregation.

Typically what happens: They are harassed. They`re spit on. They are cursed at. They are assaulted and sometimes killed. Rarely, I`ve never heard of a case where somebody has been tattooed. This is probably the first in American correctional history.

BECK: Well, it`s a kinder, gentler prison justice. This guy is not going to talk, is he? He`s not going to rat anybody out. He`ll be dead if he does, don`t you think?

ROSS: It`s doubtful, but, you know, he has a long time to serve behind bars. And he may very well turn to the legal system and sue the correctional system for failure to ensure his safety. And this could be played out in the courts over the next, you know, two, three, five years. And so he has a lot of time to make it work its way through the state criminal justice system.

BECK: And that, America, is his revenge. Jeff, thank you very much.

ROSS: My pleasure.

BECK: Back in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Lots of hate mail to get to today. The first one comes in from Ben in Canada. He said, "Glenn, did you know that your pitch at the Angels game was made from about halfway between the pitcher`s mound and the home plate? Please, no more, Glenn. Or is that Glennette?"

Yes, it is Glennette, actually. Ben, I`m not going to show the pitch again. But needless to say, yes, I could have stepped a little farther back. OK, that`s not necessary. Watch this rocket arm that I have. My wife actually said to me -- believe it or not, last night, when she saw it, she said, "I can`t believe I`m married to you."

By the way, the rumors are not true. Neither I nor Roger Clemens have used any performance-enhancing drugs, although I wish I had. My webmaster at glennbeck.com who apparently hates my guts put a poll up where you could rate my pitch on a scale from 1 to 10: 76 percent gave it a score of 5 or below; 46 percent actually gave it a 0. But I thought the scale was 1 to 10, but I want to thank everybody for voting, and I mean that, really.

Byron writes in from Richmond. He says, "Should I sue you, TiVo, or Headline News for the carpal tunnel syndrome that I have developing in my thumb from managing my GLENN BECK season pass?"

You know, we get more e-mails on this more than on any other subject, outside of my glasses, which -- get a life, people. If you tell your TiVo to report every episode of this show, it`s going to fill up faster than an e-mail inbox of some subordinate of Mark Foley. But as far as I know, the best way to get around it is to go to the manual record feature and just schedule it to report only one showing or just watch all three showings live. That`s my recommendation.

Steven writes in, "I thought this man was a buffoon until I found out that he has psychiatric problems. Is he really being exploited by performing on TV? He needs to be somewhere quiet on medication and in therapy. With all due respect, I am unable to watch him. Thank you."

Well, thank you for respectfully calling me psychotic, really. I`m going to say, Steven, your e-mail filled with lies. Saying that I have a psychiatric problem indicates you believe I only have one, which is obviously untrue.

Visilio from Miami writes, "Want to help America? Promote the legalization of hemp growing." OK, well, you know, whatever. You didn`t exactly say why that would help America, but I can only assume your comment is based on in-depth thought, deep analysis of some kind. Maybe it was needed to help the economy that I hear is worse than Herbert Hoover, and I`m not basing that on statistics, or numbers, or factually based statements of any kind.

I just look in the mirror and I see a man everyday who`s forced to work two jobs on TV and on radio, and I say, "Damn this Bush administration!" Horrible.

See you tomorrow on the radio, you sick freak.

END