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Glenn Beck

What Lies Behind Missouri Kidnapping?; Muslim Feminist Speaks Out; O.J. Book Excerpt Reveals Detail Behind Murders

Aired January 16, 2007 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

GLENN BECK, HOST: All right. Coming up the latest twist in that bizarre Missouri kidnapping case, and I`ve been saying for a while we need the Muslims to rise up and speak out. We have a Muslim feminist speaking out tonight that you do not want to miss.
Also, legendary wide receiver Jerry Rice next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Tonight`s episode is brought to you by witty British people. Make your awards show even lamer with witty British people. Jolly good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: Everyone`s talking today about that 15-year-old Shawn Hornbeck. That`s the -- that`s the teenager from Missouri who was allegedly abducted by Mike Devlin. And for Shawn it was as if time stood still.

After the cops found him, he walked into his room at his house and realized nothing had changed. In four years when he was gone, his clothes that he was wearing as 11 were still folded up and put in his drawer or hanging in his closet. They no longer fit him, but they were there. All of his belongings were exactly in the same place where he left it.

Shawn`s parents kept it that way on purpose. For them, I mean, any parent, could life go on after your kid was taken?

But for Shawn life had apparently gone on in a new and nightmarish way. In that new life, Shawn may have actually reached out to his parents. Shawn Hornbeck may have had computer access and even left clues on a web site set up by his family before he was found.

He also may have had a cell phone, which begs the question, if he did, then why didn`t he contact his parents directly? Investigators think that Mike Devlin probably threatened to kill Shawn and his family, had he made any attempt to escape.

However, his abductor, this guy was fearless. He decided to abduct yet another child, and that is how he got caught, which brings us to the point tonight.

We have got to start sending strong messages to child predators. If you harm a child in any way, will you never see the light of day. Sadly that`s not currently the case in America, and here`s how I got there.

It was just a week ago in Vermont that Andrew James walked out of a court after pleading guilty to sexually assaulting a 4-year-old boy 10 times. And yet there`s nothing preventing him from having contact with his victim or any other child. Why? Because no one had filed the right paperwork necessary to impose sex offender conditions on him.

On the same day in Connecticut, the state where I live, a man named Thomas Piccirillo admitted fondling his girlfriend`s 8-year-old daughter for six years straight. This guy was only given a four-year sentence.

What kind of world are we living in? What kind of message does this send to our children and to the sick people who prey on our children?

People in Missouri are asking how did Mike Devlin have the nerve to allegedly kidnap a second child? Well, I`ll tell you. Here`s how.

First, the guy is a moron and a really bad dude. There`s no accounting for people who do things like this, but most importantly, B, many people in our country are just asleep at the wheel. We no longer have a sense of real community, and we must have one.

Devlin also might have known that he probably wouldn`t get caught, and even if he did get caught in this society with our messed up judicial system, it`s worth the risk. Don`t you think he might have thought that? We need to teach these dirt bags once and for all it`s not worth the risk.

Here`s what I know tonight. If you harm my kid, you are going away for the rest of your miserable, pathetic life. The rest of time is what you should serve. Our most precious treasure is our future, our children, and yet we`ll give guys like Ken Lay more prison time for stealing our money than we give to people who steal our children.

Now here`s what I don`t know. Who is Mike Devlin? Also, what`s going to be the extenuating circumstances that makes the judge and jury weep and say, "Oh, let`s not be too tough on the guy. He had a tough childhood"?

Criminal profiler Pat Brown joins me now. Pat, who exactly is this guy?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, I think you said it right, Glenn. He`s an absolute creep, and he`s a guy who understands the system.

It`s really odd that, you know, we know when we have children, for example, if the child -- we put the child to bed and we say, "Look, you`ve got to stay in bed." And that kid jumps out of bed and goes, "Mommy, mommy," you go, "Go back to bed."

If you allow him to do this over and over again he`s going to play you, because he knows you don`t mean it. And that`s the message we`ve given to sex predators and predators of children: we don`t really mean it. You can behave any way you like.

BECK: OK. Now he apparently is the exact opposite. He apparently scared Shawn so badly that he could feel confident and cocky enough to give the kid a cell phone, to give him computer access and then go to work.

BROWN: Right. Well, he learned the other technique, you know, while society is not bothering to do much about predators, he`s learned that if you have control, you have to institute that control.

And so the minute he got hold of these children, he said, "Look, I`m going to tell you this once, and I`m going to tell it to you real strong. You step over that line, and I`m going to kill you. I`m going to kill your family. You`re going to have horrible consequences." And he makes sure they believe it, and he probably means it well enough that they do believe him, like the rest of us don`t really seem to mean what we say.

BECK: I know. So do you -- do you think, Pat, that when he stole the second child last week, was Shawn in danger, because it`s almost like, well, you`re getting a little too old or you`re getting too whatever and he needed the next challenge?

BROWN: Yes.

BECK: Do you think Shawn was in danger?

BROWN: Exactly. I do think so, because I think he was getting close to that seven-year itch people get in marriages. He was getting bored with what he had. And he also knew that that person was getting more mature and was going to start questioning his power and control.

And that was indeed what was happening with these, you know, little forays with the web sites and reaching out just a little bit to test the waters. He knew he was going to lose that control.

So he gets his new victim in place, and, yes, I think that if luck hadn`t come the way it had and we hadn`t had that wonderful report from the child`s friend that said, "Hey, this is what that vehicle looked like," we may have -- would have had bun dead child on our hands at least.

BECK: I have to tell you it is amazing because the reports are coming out now that a lot of people in the community saw Shawn and said, yes, he looks like that missing kid, but they never did anything on it.

The guy who Devlin worked for at the pizza parlor, when he saw that report, he thought, "That`s -- that`s Devlin`s truck. I`ve seen it." Got into his car, went to the house, looked at it, reported to police and police did nothing until later that night when they had another tip. They finally went.

I mean, we`ve really lost a sense of community, and that is -- that`s the key to all of this, isn`t it?

BROWN: Well, you know, actually the community was actually doing some of what they were supposed to, but take a look at this. You know these rewards we have out? Does anybody ever get those rewards? I mean, do we honor those citizens who are doing what was right?

When I listened to that police conference, they played down the tips from the public, that boy`s description of the vehicle. They played that down. And they also played down the man who called -- the pizza parlor guy and they said we had another -- we already knew it was there.

Excuse me, don`t play that down. Don`t tell the public we`re not going to listen to you. Don`t tell them we`re not going to reward you. That`s what we want you to do. Get everything out to the public, saying you get in with us, and we`re going to be thrilled, and when you call us, we`re going to say, thanks for your help, instead of what are you telling us? Where do you know this from? You get that surly attitude.

MATTHEWS: Right.

BROWN: You have to reach out and really support the public so they can help you, and then you can do your investigations.

BECK: I have to tell you, anybody who was actually calling with a missing child, you would. You`d preface it, I would think with, "Look, I know this sounds crazy and he`s probably not the kid but."

And the last thing you want is the cop to say, "Yes, you`re right. It is crazy."

Pat, we`ve gone to run. Thank you very much.

Coming up, I promised -- I promised you that I would be listening to the voices within the Muslim community that were shouting against extremism. Well, today we found such a voice. Wait until you hear what she says about women and Islam. It is shocking.

And excerpts from the unpublished O.J. Simpson catastrophe "If I Did It". They leak out to the media. Word of another book now. This one his lawyer promises that will be done quite tastefully. We`ll give you the details coming up.

Plus NFL great and former "Dancing with the Stars" fan favorite, Jerry Rice. Maybe he`ll teach me a thing or two about how to throw a ball or something about life. It will be one of those. You decide. Don`t miss it, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: Is there ever a time that we`re thinking to ourselves, man, if we could just get another Zachary Taylor in, we`d be set. Man, I wish we had the days of Lyndon B. Johnson on our hands.

I think we`re always looking for a John F. Kennedy, or an Abraham Lincoln, an FDR, a Ronald Reagan. Those guys had a vision, and it wasn`t a vision of some utopia; it was a vision of who we really are.

A lot of people didn`t get around Ronald Reagan`s vision, but that`s just because he was evil and wanted to starve children to death and set the whole world on fire with nuclear weapons, but other than that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: All right. I actually have some good news for you. About a week ago I gave you a story about two women in the Middle East. One was -- one was a girl named Nazanin. She was being tried for killing a man who attempted to rape her and her young niece. And the other was a former Miss Canada trying to rally international support to save her namesake`s life.

There is -- I mean, there`s like no good news coming out of the Middle East. We had to pause and tell you this.

Miraculously it has worked. The charges against this young Iranian girl have been dropped. She`s not going to be stoned to death. It is an encouraging twist to a story that, most likely, without somebody stepping in, would have had a very tragic ending.

The systematic oppression of women in the Middle East is nothing of shocking, and for some reason nobody is paying attention to it here in America. During the Gulf War it became impossible to ignore the plight of women in the Middle East.

Under Islamic Sharia life, a woman`s life is worth about half as much as a man. Women are denied participation in politics, business. Rape, I swear to you, is all but sanctioned by the state. And perhaps the most glaring example of women`s oppression is that they have to shroud themselves in a shapeless black cloak that even covers their mouth. How unbelievably fitting.

My question is where are the outraged voices today? Where -- where are the women`s organizations? You know what? I love Oprah Winfrey, but Oprah, where are you on this one? When millions of Middle Eastern women are literally forbidden to speak for themselves, who will speak for them?

You know, I have been asking on this program where are the Muslims who speak out against Islamic extremism? I am thrilled to have one now. Her name is Irshad Manji. She is a feminist Muslim. She is an author of "The Trouble with Islam Today", the creator of a brand new documentary, "Faith Without Fear".

Irshad, we`ve been trying to get you on the show for a while. Great to have you on the program

IRSHAD MANJI, AUTHOR, "THE TROUBLE WITH ISLAM TODAY": Thank you so much.

BECK: You`re a Muslim.

MANJI: I am.

BECK: You`ve got death threats coming out of your wazoo.

MANJI: I do.

BECK: Yes. And it`s because you are speaking your mind.

MANJI: Yes, and because I insist on having one, and look, Glenn, I live in a free and democratic society. I`m a refugee to this part of the world. Every day, Glenn, without any exaggeration, I wake up thanking Allah, thanking God that I wound up in a part of the world where, as a Muslim girl and now as a Muslim woman, I can dream big dreams and tap much, if not most if not most of my potential.

Millions of people around the world don`t yet have the privileges and the freedoms that you and I do. How irresponsible would it be for us to turn our backs on those freedoms? I am asking my fellow Muslims, particularly in the west, what in God`s name are we doing with our freedoms?

BECK: I mean, I just want to have a Christian-Muslim make-out fest with you right now. It has been...

MANJI: Don`t tempt me.

BECK: I know.

MANJI: Getting hot here.

BECK: It is so -- it is so refreshing to hear. Now, this leads me to the question am I only hearing this from you because you have death threats and most people in America who are Muslim are afraid to take on those death threats, or are you a freak of nature?

MANJI: Probably both.

BECK: Both.

MANJI: But let`s leave the freak of nature aside for a second, OK, because that`s a psychiatric case...

BECK: Right.

MANJI: ... I`m not willing to delve into on, you know, national television.

The fear is very, very real. You know, Glenn, I speak right across the country, particularly at universities, and invariably, young Muslims will follow me to the book signing lineup and will whisper in my ear, "Thank you".

And when I know I`m not going to make them defensive by asking my next question, I say, "Well, why whisper it to me? Where was your voice when you and I were being denounced by the jihadists in that audience during the Q and A?"

And every time I hear, "Irshad, you have the luxury of being able to walk away from this campus two hours from now. I don`t. I don`t want to be stalked for supporting you." And in many cases if they`re women, they`ll say, "I don`t want to be raped for supporting you."

This is happening right here in America, in our own communities as Muslims.

BECK: OK. Irshad, will you do me a favor? We are putting together a special for this year that is going to be Islam in America, the good and the evil.

And we -- we need somebody to help navigate us through to be able to show the good and the evil.

MANJI: I have to tell you some good news, Glenn. You know, I`m not the only voice...

BECK: I know you`re not. I know.

MANJI: ... of moderation and reform out there. I`m one of the louder ones, it`s true. So sue me. I got big hair. I need to have a big mouth. All right?

BECK: Got it.

MANJI: But I can tell you that there is an emerging movement within Islam to liberalize my faith and proof positive of that is that this coming March in Florida is going to be something called the Secular Islam Summit. This will probably be the very first international congress of reform- minded Muslims from around the world.

And Glenn, I am personally inviting you to be my guest. Come with me.

BECK: I would -- I would love to.

MANJI: Attend, and bring your cameras.

BECK: Are you going to provide the flack jackets?

MANJI: I know a few guys who can help us out in that department.

BECK: I would love to.

MANJI: Yes.

BECK: Absolutely love to.

MANJI: Because, you know, what we really want to show is that reform- minded Muslims are not alone. We`re not out there trying to change the minds of the fundamentalists. That will be like hitting our, you know, heads against a brick wall.

What we really want to show younger Muslims is that, in your greatest moments of despair, when you think you`re alone for wanting to open up this faith, you`re not. You know, our enemies can pick us off individually, but collectively we`re going nowhere except forward.

BECK: Where are the -- where`s the National Organization of Women? Do you ever ask yourself why the hell aren`t these people standing up? You know, I -- I`m a conservative.

MANJI: And I`m a liberal.

BECK: Yes. And when I saw the National Organization of Women, what they did with Bill Clinton, I realized, "Oh, this is a political organization. This isn`t really a real movement."

Here this isn`t political. This is about women!

MANJI: Yes. Human rights should never be political. Human rights don`t have to be partisan.

BECK: Yes.

MANJI: That`s what they`re called human rights.

BECK: Human. So where are the human rights organizations? Where is the National Organization of Women?

MANJI: You know that`s why I called my forthcoming PBS documentary "Faith Without Fear". OK? What I`m doing in this documentary is showing that, you know, we all have fears of various kinds. The fear of asking questions out loud, the fear of offending minorities in a multi-cultural society, the fear of being ostracized within your own community and sometimes even worse than ostracized.

But that, again, in a democratic society, we have got to face those fears, Glenn, because that is the only way we can find our unique voices and take ownership of the solutions that are in front of us. It`s part of not just our right. Forget rights; let`s talk about personal responsibilities.

BECK: I love you.

MANJI: You know?

BECK: I love you. Listen, can we have you back and spend an hour with you some time?

MANJI: What do I get from you in return?

BECK: Oh, baby.

MANJI: Don`t even go there.

BECK: Now I know. Whatever you would need. I love...

MANJI: I`ll tell you what in return.

BECK: Yes.

MANJI: I want you to come to the secular Islam summit.

BECK: I will be there. I will be there.

MANJI: All right?

BECK: You got it.

MANJI: We reform-minded Muslims need the support of vocal non- Muslims. We`re all in this together, Glenn, and you know it.

BECK: I`m with you.

MANJI: All right.

BECK: Irshad, thank you so much for being here.

MANJI: Pleasure.

BECK: No matter what you might have heard, all things are not bad for women in the Middle East. And I just want to point out that we`ve done some investigation and the new spring collections are right around the corner. And believe it or not, the designers have some very nice things in store.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This year the burqa is back and, frankly, sexier than ever. Yes, work it, ladies. Black is once again the new black this year, with blue running a close second. And that`s about it for the colors, but all the rage this season is, yes, the burqini, the burqini where burqa meets beachwear, and the result is nothing short of, well, I guess it would be swimming in one of these.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is GLENN BECK.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: O.J. Simpson back in the news, so let me quickly bring you up to speed on the facts as I see them.

O.J. won the Heisman trophy, got into the NFL Hall of Fame, made some funny commercials for Hertz Rent-a-Car, brutally murdered his wife, chopped her head off and her friend, which was kind of nice, then wrote a hypothetical account of how he would have done it, had he done it.

Well, an excerpt of that book has been acquired now by "Newsweek" magazine. It purportedly lays out the events leading up to the double murder of Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend, Ron Goldman.

Mark Miller has been covering the story for "Newsweek". He joins me now.

Mark, in this article that I read from "Newsweek", you say that he uses the language of a wife abuser, or a spouse abuser. What does that mean exactly?

MARK MILLER, "NEWSWEEK": Right. It means that he blames all of his troubles on Nicole. She`s changed. She`s not a good person anymore. She`s a bad mother. She`s flinging her sexual dalliances in his face. She`s -- she`s doing things that he disapproves of and pushing all his buttons, and he just can`t take it anymore. And he`s going to, you know, have to teach her a lesson.

BECK: All right. What else is in this -- this chapter? When you read it, what did your gut say?

MILLER: Well, you know, like everyone I think I wondered what did it actually say, and when I got it, you know, I read it.

And I have to say that, you know, if he wrote it or the ghostwriter wrote it, it`s a fairly convincing job, because it`s written as a first person narrative, very straightforwardly.

But it`s really that tone, that tone of, you know, Nicole, she was, as he calls her, the enemy at one point. And he just -- he can`t take it anymore. He`s going to go over to Bundy`s, and he`s driving over there with a friend, which is a man he calls Charlie, which really is the major departure from the evidence in the case.

And he`s putting on the cap and the gloves, which he keeps in the Bronco to have when it gets cold on the golf course. And he also has a knife which he actually calls a very nice knife, which he has to have because there are crazy people in L.A., and you never know when you need a knife.

So it`s the tone and then it`s those details that make it seem quite convincing, even though he still says it`s not true, and he has nothing to confess to.

BECK: Well, I will tell you, I mean, I can`t believe I`m playing devil`s advocate and that is really what I`m playing here.

MILLER: You should.

BECK: Let me play devil`s advocate. I`m just -- I`m reading a Vince Flynn novel right now. That seems pretty real.

MILLER: Right. And I agree. The facts as he lays them out were things that were fairly well known.

Again, I think what really sends it over the top is the tone of the writing, because you can see O.J. and hear him as he works himself up into greater levels of rage.

And it`s when, you know, he encounters Ron Goldman. He`s convinced, you know, that he`s going to have a sexual liaison with Nicole, and that`s why Ron Goldman is there, even though Ron keeps denying it. He just wants to return some glasses.

And you know, one of the more chilling moments is when the dog, Kato, bizarrely named Kato, comes out of the condo. The dog, in O.J.`s view, is overly friendly to Ron and he wags his tail at him, and that kind of seals it for Ron, because O.J. thinks he`s been here before.

BECK: All right. I`ve only got a couple of seconds here. But the bizarre thing is he wouldn`t write about the actual murder, because he didn`t want to hurt the kids.

MILLER: Well, that`s what he told the ghostwriter, according to one of my sources.

BECK: Right. I mean, wouldn`t that -- I mean, wouldn`t the rest of it destroy your kids?

MILLER: Yes, I was going to say, you know, I`m not sure I`d want them to read anything he wrote.

BECK: Right. Right. Mark, thanks a lot.

MILLER: Thank you.

BECK: Real story on Fidel Castro`s condition. He`s sick. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: All right. Welcome to "The Real Story." From freezing temperatures destroying most of California`s citrus crop to severe ice storms in the Midwest to record warmth and cherry blossoms in Brooklyn, the weather is upside down. Some people say, if you just would have paid attention to Al Gore, we would have seen this one coming. Yes. You know the real story? The real story tonight, this chaos has been predicted, well, I would say it`s a little more prestigious than at an Al Gore slide show. It`s a little novel you might have heard of. It`s called the Bible.

Now, I`m not saying that this weather means that the Apocalypse is coming, but I`m also not, not saying that either. You decide.

Now, if the world does end this year -- not going to happen -- Fidel Castro may not be around to see it. Darn it! I was hoping he was going to live until 150. A Spanish newspaper out today reporting that his condition is very grave and that he is literally on death`s doorstep. The real story is: Fidel, knock, and that door shall be opened, or if it`s easier for you, just ring the doorbell.

If you`re too weak, you know what? I`ll come down, wiggle a finger, blink or something. I`ll personally help you open that magical doorway to death. And, Fidel, if this is the end, please don`t forget to bring a good mojito recipe with you. I think that probably the place you`re headed will be a lot warmer than Cuba. Just saying.

Finally tonight, the U.S. military has revealed that some surplus U.S. military parts that were auctioned off have accidentally ended up in the hands of countries like Iran. Oops. Sorry. But if you think that`s idiotic, please, if you`re standing, sit down. Wait until you hear this.

Iran is the only country in the world -- got it, the only country -- still using the F-14 Tomcat fighter jets. Those were courtesy of us, the U.S. government in the 1970s. Thanks, President Ford.

Now, even though our fleet of Tomcats has been retired and Iran is the only country using Tomcats, our military is now sitting on a mountain of spare parts. And now, I`m no jet mechanic, but I am a thinker, and it seems if we were sitting on a pile of parts I would order the guys to maybe, I don`t know, destroy them, since the only place they can wind up is in Iran.

But no, no, apparently that`s too logical for our government, because the real story tonight: These parts are now being transferred to an agency that holds public surplus auctions. Gee, who do you think would be bidding on those parts, hmm? Homer from Ohio who`s building his own tabletop Tomcat or Iran, the only country who still flies Tomcats?

You know, I`ve got to tell you. I am not the guy who says, "I`m looking out for you, and go out there and call your congressman." I mean, please. I`m a bigger slug than you are. I ain`t calling. But this story, this story is so frickin` ridiculous that I think the Republicans and the Democrats can unite on this one. Call your congressman!

This story both parties can unite on and help make sure that this auction never takes place. It is absolutely unbelievable to me that we have gotten to the point where we have to make phone calls about this one. Have we really gotten so fat, dumb and lazy to think that we can literally arm our enemies without any kind of repercussions?

Instead of treating Iran like a crazy, rabid Doberman that wants to kill us, I really think we treat them like a crazy, rabid penguin. Oh, look, look at him, he`s foaming at the mouth, it`s a cute little penguin, marching around in circles, flapping your freakish little wings, trying to fly. Oh, are you cute.

That type of complacency gets us killed when that cute, little penguin pecks out our frickin` eyes with radioactive beaks, got it? You know, the only difference between a crazy person and a serial killer is that a serial killer has his hands on a weapon.

Well, just right now, Iran is the crazy person. And the whole premise behind the Bush doctrine is to stop them from getting that weapon, but the real story is we can`t even agree on how to do that. Some people think that we should just wait them out.

There`s a guy who writes for "Newsweek," he`s a columnist, and, you know, he`s normally a pretty bright guy. He argues that we should be calm and confident and things will just eventually change. I don`t know if this guy missed the day in school when they taught about the Nazis, you know, but if we would have just waited them out, I`d probably be yodeling this monologue wearing lederhosen tonight.

Other people say that we should just talk to them, you know, have a little diplomacy for a change. Let`s chat. Here`s what these people don`t tell you. The hard-line Iranians see diplomacy as nothing more than a sign of weakness in their enemies. I know you`ve heard that before. What you haven`t heard is, well, have you ever heard of a German guy names Hans Dietrich Genscher? Yes, no, probably not.

That`s because he was a former minister who spent his entire 18-year career trying to bring Iran into the mainstream. Did it work? No, not so much.

Then there`s Jack Straw. He`s the former British foreign minister who made more trips to Tehran than he did to Washington, all with nothing to show for it except perhaps a new appreciation for public stonings. I`m just saying.

Or what about Mr. Diplomacy himself, Jacques Chirac? Today I read in a newspaper article about his policy of cultivating better relations with Tehran. Yes. Unfortunately, that newspaper article was from 1987. Hey, Jacques, it`s been 20 years, no progress. What do you say we give something a new whirl -- give something a new a whirl? I`m just saying.

People who keep saying we should just talk it out are ignoring one really important fact: The Iranians don`t want to work it out. They don`t want to talk. And if they did talk to you, they`d be doing it just to buy time to finish building a weapon that is meant to kill you. Remember the little radioactive beaks?

As Americans, people who genuinely love peace, it`s a hard thing to accept, but diplomacy isn`t an option. If it`s not, then what`s left? How do you stop a crazy guy from getting a loaded gun? No. I mean, I`m asking you. I have no idea. I`m a rodeo clown.

Hopefully Stephen Biddle, the author of "Military Power: Explaining Victory and Defeat in Modern Battle," has an idea. How do you stop these guys from getting a nuclear weapon?

STEPHEN BIDDLE, AUTHOR, "MILITARY POWER": I doubt we`re going to. And I`m pessimistic that, at the end of the day, our best efforts are going to succeed.

BECK: OK. These guys -- is it just me -- because, Stephen, look, I`m not a scholar, I`m not a journalist, I really am practically damn near all clown. When I look at these guys, it seems to me that they are emboldened. They`re pushing and prodding and seeing -- you know, it reminds me of my kids, as I raise my kids. You know your kids test you, and we don`t seem to be pushing or laying down any lines in the sand. Are they testing us right now?

BIDDLE: Oh, of course they are. They`re testing us now. They`re looking at our past behavior. Laying down lines is fine, but at the end of the day we`re stuck with a very weak hand to play here.

BECK: Right.

BIDDLE: So, I mean, if you can find some aces for us somewhere under the table that the rest of us haven`t seen, by all means, let us know, but I don`t see them.

BECK: Stephen, I have to tell you, this situation is so bad in Iran - - and I`ve been noodling this for a long time, and I`m not saying I`m the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I cannot find a way out of this one. They are crossing the border now. If this isn`t an act of war, I don`t know what is.

They are killing our troops as they`re crossing the border into Iraq, and the president doesn`t want to say anything. Is that because nobody has an answer for this?

BIDDLE: I think that`s the short version, yes. I mean, the whole question of an act of war, I mean, there is a once upon a time, good, old days when there were declarations of war and when it was clear when you had a war and you didn`t have a war. Those days are long gone.

What we have now is a big gray zone of increasing provocation that states can respond to aggressively or not so aggressively as a function of what they think their interests are. At the moment, the weakness of the hand we`ve got means that I think, on balance, we`ll probably less able to respond aggressively to something that we might otherwise consider an act of war.

BECK: Is there any way to increase the strength of our hand? What do we do to increase it? What do we do to gather some strength? I think these people were afraid of us three years ago when we first marched into Iran or to Iraq, but now they see us, they`re like, "These guys are paper tigers." What do we do to increase our strength?

BIDDLE: Well, it`s a little bit like the old joke of the guy who asks for directions and the guy he asks said, "Well, I wouldn`t start from here." The best thing to do is let`s get in a time machine, let`s go back to 2003, and let`s not do that. I mean, that would right off the top put us in a much stronger position vis-a-vis Iran. Now...

BECK: You`re right, that`s the old joke. We can`t do that, so what do we do now?

BIDDLE: Yes. Well, I mean, I think the best thing we can do now is, if there were a way to create some sort of power-sharing deal and a cease- fire in Iraq, that would be overwhelmingly the best thing we could do. Now, personally, I think the prospects of that happening are slim.

I think the prospects of that happening, given the troop count in the new way forward that was just announced by the president, are very, very slim. That`s probably the best of this rather lousy set of options.

BECK: This is the most bizarre interview I`ve ever done, because you`re just like, "Well, you know what? We`re all going to be vaporized," so it`s just so calm and so surreal. Stephen, thank you very much.

That is "The Real Story" tonight. If you`d like to read more about this or if you found a real story of your own you`d like to tell us about, please do. Visit glennbeck.com and click on that "Real Story" button.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: I don`t even know who Jerry Rice is. Who the hell is Jerry Rice? He plays football, doesn`t he? That`s all I know. And they said, yes -- jeez, yes, he played football. And he`s on "Dancing with the Stars." And I`m like oh, good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s the type of athlete you would like. He`s a good role model. You could make the argument he`s the best player that`s ever played football.

BECK: Really?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not just some guy.

BECK: Hang on just a second. When you say you could make the argument, you don`t mean me, because I can`t make that argument. Well, I could, because he`ll be the only one that I know. So...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. But I mean this is not just...

BECK: So you are the best -- let me tell you something. Out of all the wide receivers that I know, you`re the best one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: Jerry, let me tell you something -- and I mean this sincerely, out of all the wide receivers I know, you are the best.

JERRY RICE, FORMER FOOTBALL PLAYER: Well, thank you.

BECK: And I mean that.

RICE: But how many do you know?

BECK: Let`s not get into details. That gets sloppy. Listen, you were on "Dancing with the Stars." I mean, I could list, you know, you`ve got like three Super Bowl rings and everything else. You were also on "Dancing with the Stars." You`ve got a new book out. What`s the name of the book?

RICE: "Go Long: The Journey Before the Game and the Fame."

BECK: Yes, I love that. Actually, you know what? I haven`t had a chance to read it, but I have thumbed through it, and it`s actually an inspirational book. And I know this is going to hack -- you know what? I`ll tell you what. For the audience at home, I`m just going to get this out of the way right away. Who is going to win the playoffs this weekend?

RICE: I`ve got the Colts and New Orleans.

BECK: Good. I`ve got the Colts. Or the Seahawks or somebody. I don`t know.

Anyway, OK, so let me start with this. I talked on the radio today about -- I think one of our great problems in America is we don`t have role models anymore or we don`t insist on role models anymore. You are a role model for a lot of people, and you have said, whether you like it or not, Jack, you are one. What happened to us? What happened to role models? These people who are just like, "Hey, I`m not a role model," please.

RICE: You know, I think the players, they need to take that up on themselves and know that the little kids are going to look up to them and are really going to want to follow in their footsteps, so I take a lot of pride in what I do. I want little kids to look up to me. I enjoy signing autographs. I enjoy setting the right example.

BECK: So who is a role model for you currently? Do you have one?

RICE: Well, my parents. My parents, and I think they really instilled in me about hard work and how to treat people, treat them equal, and I`m really passing that onto my kids.

BECK: Good for you. I saw that you were married before you were anybody, and she`s still with you.

RICE: She`s still with me.

BECK: My wife married me when she thought I would be a garbage man, and it turns out I kind of am.

But it`s -- do you think that that -- do you think that helps a marriage, when you`re married to somebody who is successful, that they got to know you before you were anybody?

RICE: I think it does. And my wife, she didn`t know anything about me at the time we started dating. To be honest with you, at first we didn`t get along, you know.

I met her at a basketball game at my college. She was still -- yes, she was still in high school, so she`s a little younger than I am. But, you know, I told her I would call her at 12:00 the next day, and I did that, so we became friends. Then we got married. We have three beautiful kids. And I think she wants to trade me in, but I don`t think she wants to start over again; 20 years, that`s a long time.

BECK: Right. The secret for being a good dad and a good husband, what is it?

RICE: I think just being there for the kids, going to their activities, letting them know that you care about them, and to be a husband I think just, you know, giving my wife the OK to shop, to do whatever.

BECK: Right.

RICE: No, but, you know, just being there for her and being supportive.

BECK: I`ve read that you feel that some day you could wake up and it could all be over.

RICE: Yes.

BECK: If I hear this from one -- you know, I`ve heard this from several famous people that I won`t name, because they`ve said it to me in private, and it`s amazing how that runs through the famous people that I know that are decent people. They all feel like, you know, they`re a fraud or this is just -- I mean, this just happened to me. I`m just a lucky guy to have this happen, and you think it could be over.

RICE: Yes. I never take it for granted, you know? I feel I`m living a dream right now. A lot of hard work went into this, but I know, even during my football career, that any game I could go out there and I could be hit a certain way and my career is over.

And I think it`s just that fear of failure that keeps pushing me, and I never get complacent. I don`t feel like I have arrived, and I`m basically going to continue to work hard.

BECK: Was it hard for you to play when people were not the kind of character that you are, where you were kind of the high watermark? Was that difficult for you? Was it difficult to see -- when you were MVP, you know, they came down on the field and who`s going to Disney World, and they didn`t ask you, and you were the MVP, smacks of racism. Was that difficult?

RICE: Well, I feel you always going to have that in the NFL, in any walks of life. I know you`re going to be faced with racism. When I was in Mississippi, I was faced with it, but I didn`t use that as an excuse. I just, you know, keep pushing hard and keep working, you know, towards my goal.

BECK: Good for you. If you could grab the people by the shoulders, if you could grab young Americans and say, "You`ve got to understand this," what would be the one thing?

RICE: I think the thing is that you can`t -- if there`s an obstacle in your way, you`ve got to overcome that obstacle, just like "Dancing with the Stars." I knew nothing about dancing, but I decided to go for it, knowing that I would take a lot of criticism behind it...

BECK: You were...

(CROSSTALK)

RICE: But I still wanted to try it, and I did it, and I put myself out there. And it`s just that, you know, you`ve got to live life and go for it.

BECK: All right. Jerry, what a pleasure.

RICE: Thank you. Thanks.

BECK: We`ll see you. Back in a second.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Last night, Americans gathered around their TV sets on the edge of their seats to watch the Golden Globes, and who could blame them? I mean, who wouldn`t care about what the less than 100 mostly part-time journalists from other countries think about our entertaining movies and TV shows?

And, really, that`s how the Golden Globes are chosen, by the Hollywood Foreign Press Association, and why they vote the way they do has been the topic of controversy for many years. The Golden Globes have survived through black eyes like the award for new star of the year from 1982 that went to Pia Zadora, 18 years after her acting debut, and also coincidentally right after her millionaire husband flew the voters free of charge to Las Vegas, but I`m sure that didn`t influence their vote at all.

But, honestly, who cares? It`s the frickin` Golden Globes, man. Let them buy the awards. It`s a win-win for everybody. Movie studios get their free advertising, stars get more exposure, NBC gets ratings, and the Hollywood Foreign Press Association gets to exist for another 365 days, 366 in a leap year, I`ll remind you.

The awards themselves this year featured some people you`ve never heard of in a lot of movies you`ll never see. "Dreamgirls," with its limited release and earnings, swept best musical or comedy, best supporting actor and best actress.

It`s strange, though, because it was Eddie Murphy. I mean, he`s still making movies? And he`s winning awards for them? I kind of feel like this whole century Eddie Murphy has been making nothing but "Nutty Professors" and "Dr. Doolittle" movies, with the occasional "Adventures of Pluto Nash" mixed in.

And then there was Jennifer Hudson. She was winning an acting award. The one from "American Idol"? Is Meryl Streep going to be in the next season of "The Surreal Life"? Forest Whitaker was the winner for best actor for the movie "The Last King of Scotland," about the Ugandan dictator, Idi Amin.

So let me see if I have this right now. Idi Amin has credit for over 300,000 dead and a Golden Globe. Congratulations, Idi.

Helen Mirren won best actor in "The Queen." I actually saw this movie on a plane. I was trapped at 40,000 feet, and they wouldn`t let me out. It`s about the royal family the week after Diana died, and it will make you absolutely hate the royal family.

It actually is a good movie, and it beat out quite possibly the year`s most confusing movie to men, "Notes on a Scandal." As I understand it, this is a movie about lesbians starring Cate Blanchett, which is good, co- starring Judi Dench. Not so good.

We`ll see you tomorrow, right here, you sick, twisted freaks, where we won`t win any awards, ever.

END