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Former Iranian Hostage Weighs in on Iran-U.K. Standoff; Body Language Expert Deciphers Confessions of British Sailors; Former U.N. Ambassador Weighs in on Iran; Danny Elfman Shares Insights into Composing
Aired April 02, 2007 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
GLENN BECK, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Iran hostage crisis, day 11. More confessions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can understand why you`re so angry about our intrusion into your waters.
BECK: Who or what is making these hostages talk?
And members of Congress defying President Bush, paying a visit, to of all places, Syria.
DANA PELOSI, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: Someone should step back and think about the message that it sends.
BECK: Plus, depravity hits a new low. What one Michigan mother did to her 7-year-old daughter will have blood shooting out of your eyes.
All this and more, tonight.
BECK: Hello and welcome to the program.
I have been talking about the threat of Iran and their undeniable evil for months now, and I`ve been alone much of that time. But 11 days ago, a new human face was put on their aggression and now the world is paying attention. Actually, it was 15 faces, those British soldiers that were captured and ruthlessly taken hostage by Iran`s Republican Guard.
All this weekend I was watching television, and I heard from a lot of friends, people who are seeing these clips of the hostages giving statements and pointing at maps, all the while with their cigarettes in their mouths and smiles on their faces. And I know I wasn`t alone. I couldn`t help but wonder: is it possible these British hostages are actually helping their captors?
Here`s the point tonight. Iran is winning the propaganda war, and the British hostages are the most recent casualties. Here`s how I got there.
When it comes to the new enemy in the Middle East, I told you months ago that Iran has been following the Viet Cong`s playbook, learning the lessons from Vietnam, especially the Tet Offensive.
The V.C. quickly learned that their chance for victory didn`t lie on the battlefield, but in the edit room. They used the media to sway public opinion against the war effort. No matter how false the V.C.`s accusations or how inhumane their tactics, they could win it in the media. They used our compassion and our humanity against us. Our greatest strength is our greatest weakness. It`s our Achilles heel.
As a result, we were the architects of our own defeat. That was in the 1960s. Now, let`s flash forward to today in 2007.
I want you to look at this video montage of the hostages on Iranian TV. These clips are fast-moving. We didn`t edit this. This is the way it was played in Iran. This is something you would see on MTV, not PBS, in America. It`s obvious that they want this footage to -- to use its maximum exposure and maximum impact.
I actually heard somebody say over the weekend, "Those Brits, they don`t look so bad. Look, they`re smiling. They`re laughing it up. Where are the signs of torture?"
Well, here`s one of those videos. They were talking about a "confession" of one of the hostages.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAPT. CHRIS AIR, BRITISH NAVY: On the morning of Friday, the 23rd of March, when we left the coalition warship Foxtrot 99, our task and our two boats were to go to the area around the Persian Gulf around here. And approximately about 10 a.m. in the morning, we were seized, apparently at this point here.
So far, we`ve been treated very well by all the people here. They have looked after us and have made sure that we have enough food and been treated very well by them. I want to thank them for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECK: I have to tell you, I had to tell myself over the weekend, gee, Glenn, sorry, they don`t look beaten and bruised and beaten enough for you. The soldiers are prisoners of war. Don`t kid yourself.
Just because no one has declared a war against Iran, doesn`t mean they haven`t been fighting one with us since 1979.
We don`t know what horrors these soldiers are being subjected to, but more importantly, it`s not what they say on camera but the fact that they`re being put in front of the camera, in the first place.
Not only is that a clear violation of international protocol, but it is Tet all over again. No matter how comfortable they may look or how decent the Iranians may want to be perceived, they are holding our allies against their will.
While in the hands of these Iranians, these British hostages deserve our trust in their training and their unwavering support, and their captors deserve our unending contempt.
Please don`t believe everything you see on television. Trust me; it`s not always the truth.
So tonight, here`s what I know. Since I`m one of the only people, apparently, on TV who`s willing to say it, I`ll say it again. The leaders of Iran are pure, undiluted evil. Because they may give a soldier a cigarette doesn`t forgive the fact that they won`t release him so he can go and buy his own.
I also know that the Middle East is where the game of chess was invented, and in the game we`re playing with Iran, they`re using real, live pawns. Iran feels they are nearing check, and if they get a nuke, it could be checkmate.
What I don`t know: why the media hasn`t attached real feeling and emotions to these British faces so we can try to connect to what`s really going on and what they`re going through.
Jim Limbert was an Iranian hostage for 444 days.
You are maybe that guy that can help us do that. What are they going through? What are they feeling right now, do you suppose?
JIM LIMBERT, FORMER IRANIAN HOSTAGE: First of all, let me just say -- extend my best wishes to the -- and hopes to the captive Britons and to their families. I know they are going through very difficult times.
BECK: Are they together? Are they isolated? What was your situation?
LIMBERT: I don`t know their situation. It`s -- of course, it`s hard to tell from this outrageous media circus that has been presented. We were in different situations, personally -- I can speak personally. Of the 14 months we were held, I was nine months in solitary.
BECK: Holy cow. And did you communicate with the other hostages at all?
LIMBERT: Of course, as much as we could.
LIMBERT: Surreptitiously, by notes, by tap codes on the wall, any way we could. We didn`t have a lot of news to convey but at least hearing from someone else in those times was -- was a source of strength.
BECK: So you saw this -- you`ve been watching these videos come out. What do you think -- I mean, they look -- they`re smiling and everything else. Is -- what is this?
LIMBERT: OK. There are many forms of duress. But for these -- for these people, as it was, I think for us, the interest they have is to get out and get free and get back to their family.
And if someone says to them, "Well, just say that you were on this side of the line or say that you were in the action aisle of Wal-Mart," frankly, they`ll say it, because they will get out.
What they would -- this is not an impartial -- impartial investigation. This is propaganda. And if that`s what these unfortunate people think they need to say to get out, they will do it. I frankly would put very little importance to these statements.
BECK: Right. And I feel the same way. But I -- I wonder, and this is something that has really bothered me. Because these guys are going to -- I can`t imagine what you had to deal with when you got home. Are these guys also going to have to deal with regret on any role that they may have played in a propaganda game?
LIMBERT: I don`t think so. I think -- I think people understand the situation that they are in.
BECK: John, thank you so much. Appreciate your time.
LIMBERT: You`re welcome.
BECK: The British hostages are saying more with their body than they are with their mouths. I don`t know how to read body language but we have a body language expert from the U.K. His name is Robert Phipps. He is joining us now.
Robert, welcome to the program, sir.
ROBERT PHIPPS, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Good evening to you, Glenn.
BECK: Tell us what you have learned, as a body language expert who has been looking at these clips. What -- what are they telling us, anything?
PHIPPS: Well, they`re telling us that they`re trying to mask and do the best of a bad job.
Because if we look at the first footage of the -- Faye Turney, what she did -- yes, like you said in your introduction, she was smoking a cigarette. However, it wasn`t a confident smoking of a cigarette, because she decided to blow the smoke down.
Now, when you`re feeling confident and outgoing, and assuming you`ve got nobody in front of you, you blow the smoke straight out or you blow the smoke up in the air. She didn`t. She chose to blow it down.
Also, her eyes were looking down and to the right. This is what we do when we`re engaging our emotional channel, sort of gauging how we feel and how we feel about the pressure that we`re under.
BECK: Now I saw some clips where she was -- she was smiling. You know, it`s really hard, because we know this has been edited and edited so tightly, but there`s times when she`s smiling. I mean, can you fake that? Would you fake that? What does that tell you?
PHIPPS: Well, the smile is not a genuine smile. Because when we genuinely smile, there`s two muscles that come into play: the zeugmatic muscle at the side of the mouth and the orbicularis oculi under the eye. And what that does is it turns the corner of the lip up and the corners of the eyes up, and you get that sort of symmetrical meeting of the eyes and the mouth.
Now, what she didn`t do was she couldn`t engage those muscles because it wasn`t a genuinely felt emotion. So what she did was a masking smile. It literally sort of appeared on the face, and it disappeared just as quickly.
And she didn`t show any teeth. Now when you smile genuinely and happily, you show your teeth.
BECK: OK. Now tell me about the map. There was something. I think this was from the hostage Summers. What did you learn from this?
PHIPPS: From Nathan Summers, when he was sitting there, what was interesting was he was obviously being coached to the right-hand side.
And each time he mentioned about going into Iranian waters, he has this very uncomfortable shuffle in the chair. Three times he mentions it; three times he shuffles in his chair. Also at that point, his blinking rate increases from two to three blinks to eight or nine within the same time period.
BECK: And the blinking is a sign of...
PHIPPS: A sign of stress. A sign of stress, that you want to close your eyes, really, because you want to block these things out. It`s a little bit like when you`re seeing your favorite team lose a football match, or something like that. You tend to cover the face, and it`s exactly what he`s trying to do. The blinking rate increases when we lie.
BECK: Robert -- Robert, could you do me a favor? Could you watch some videotape of Ahmadinejad for us and tell us if you can read anything to his body language? Is there anything that you have seen in these? And maybe we can have you back and tell us about some of the leaders over in Iran.
PHIPPS: By all means, I`ll be happy to do that for you, Glenn.
BECK: Great. Thanks a lot. Robert, appreciate it.
Coming up, as Iran`s rhetoric heats to the boiling point, I`ve got to ask, what is the end game for the evil empire? Former U.N. Ambassador John Bolton joins us for some frank conversation and answers.
And Nancy Pelosi takes the lead in foreign policy as she heads to Syria. In tonight`s "Real Story", I`ll tell you why the speaker should stay in the House, but she`s not the only one.
Plus, Michigan, an accused woman is offering her 7-year-old daughter for some cash. It`s a story that will make you sick. I`ll be joined by the sheriff heading the case for answers. Coming up.
BECK: Well, for over a week now, Iran has held 15 British soldiers hostage. You know, and in case you weren`t sure, now it should be crystal clear: Iran`s regime is serious in their aggression against the west. I believe they`re evil.
So you have to ask yourself, now that they`re showing complete disregard for human decency by parading prisoners in front of TV cameras, what`s next on their hit parade, especially as the U.N. begin to take their toll and Iran gets ever closer to nuclear capability?
Former United Nations Ambassador John Bolton has been a frequent guest on this show. Just about two months ago, I asked him if he saw acts of war in Iran`s future, and here`s what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BECK: Do you believe that Iran is currently committing acts of war on us in Iraq?
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: I don`t think there`s any question but that the Iranian agents in Iraq know that Americans and other coalition forces are high-value targets. And I think the president has an obligation to do what he needs to do inside Iraq today to protect our troops. And he has an obligation and full constitutional authority, if he needs to, to take it into Iran.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECK: OK. Prophetic back then. Now, let`s see what he thinks Iran`s next move could be and if the president has reason or Tony Blair has reason to take it into Iran.
Ambassador, welcome back.
BOLTON: Glad to be here.
BECK: Does anybody have reason to take it into Iran? Do we -- are we getting closer to that?
BOLTON: Well, I think actually, we may be right near the end of this crisis.
If I were sitting in Tehran, I`d think I found out the answer to the question that I was posing by seizing these 15 British service people. And that is, that Britain was not prepared for a strong response.
It`s the 11th day now. And we`re simply doing diplomacy. So from Iran`s point of view, they found out what they want to know.
BECK: OK. So what does that mean? You don`t -- you don`t do these trial runs -- it`s kind of like don`t ask a question unless you really know the answer.
They`re not doing a trial run just to do a trial run. What are they trying to figure out, that response? Because what`s next?
BOLTON: I think that`s exactly right. That`s why I felt from the outset, that this taking of these service members was directly related to their nuclear weapons program.
But this was a kind of experiment for the Iranians to see if the British or the United States was prepared to use military force in a more limited context. And they found out that the answer, at least so far, is no.
Now that doesn`t necessarily prove what the response might be in the bigger picture, but it can show and has shown how desperate the British are for a deal on the nuclear question.
So I think Iran is way ahead in this game right now, which is why it wouldn`t surprise me, ironically, if they released the hostages and claimed credit for being great humanitarians. They`re good at that.
BECK: Yes. Now this is the kind of thing, and I said this day one of this. Gee, this seems awfully familiar. This is a rerun of last summer.
And last summer, the Israelis just botched that whole thing. And for the first time in the region, I think, really looked weak, and that only emboldened them. So this is going to embolden them to finish the nukes or just continue to thumb their nose at the U.N.?
BOLTON: Well, I think both of the above. Certainly, what they`ve seen is that they`re not being met with a strong response. And I think it`s precisely as you said. This emboldens them on the nuclear weapons issue and I think emboldens them in the region as a whole.
They were attempting to project power before. The outcome of the Israel/Hezbollah war, I think, could only encourage them.
BOLTON: So I think -- I think there`s a lot more to come here.
BECK: So then why -- why is Russian intelligence coming out and saying that we`re going to attack Friday between 4 a.m. and 4 p.m.? The Iranians are saying that Israel is going to attack them by the end of summer. Everybody`s saying everybody`s going to attack at any time. What`s that mean to you?
BOLTON: You know, I don`t know where that`s coming from. But I think one of the things that`s important is people have been saying that the two carrier battle groups that we have in the Persian Gulf had intimidated Iran, that it was part of the pressure from the Security Council to get them to back down on the nuclear weapons program.
I think the experience with the hostages has shown precisely the opposite. We`re not going to go in this case unless the British are prepared to have us go, and they`re obviously not -- we`re obviously not going to do it on our own.
So I think we`ve actually seen not only the playing out of this hostage crisis but a considerable lessening of the pressure on Iran on the nuclear weapons issue, as well.
BECK: Why did the Saudi king last week, during this crisis, come out and blast us for occupation of Iraq?
BOLTON: You know, this is not the way to win friends and influence people in the United States. The Saudis have an enormous P.R. problem in this country already.
And it`s not just public relations. It`s because people are worried about the pact that the rulers of Saudi Arabia have had now for decades with the Wahhabi extremists. This is not a way to build trust with a supposed ally like the United States.
BECK: What do you think of Pelosi and others going to Syria? How is that going to help us diplomatically or hurt us?
BOLTON: Well, it certainly won`t help us. You know, I think it confuses people when they see the leader of one of the houses of Congress off attempting to conduct foreign policy.
If Representative Pelosi wants to run for president in order to run foreign policy, more power to her. But as the speaker of the House, this does not fall within her bailiwick.
And I`m afraid that -- that it`s naive at best and may well be very counterproductive for us.
BECK: Time for a yes or no. Don`t know if you`ll give me one. Do you see a hot war in anyone`s future with Iran at some point?
BOLTON: I think that`s a probable yes.
BECK: Ambassador, thanks.
Nancy Pelosi is spending her spring break in Syria. It`s Congress gone wild. We were just talking about it. Should the speaker be playing secretary of state? Tonight`s "Real Story" coming up.
And a Michigan mother is arrested for offering her 7-year-old daughter for pornography and more. It is even more disturbing than just that. It`s depraved. Back in a minute.
BECK: Oh, I`m going to get so much mail about this next segment because everybody is going to say, "Oh, he just fell all over himself for this guy." I am a huge fan of our next guest, one of the most original, sought after film composers working today. I`ve actually gone to some movies because I knew he scored it.
He is perhaps known best for his work with Tim Burton on movies like "Beetlejuice", "Edward Scissorhands", "Nightmare Before Christmas". He has also scored movies like "Spiderman", "Spy Kids", wrote the theme song to "The Simpsons". He`s been nominated for three Academy Awards. His latest project takes him into the world of 3-D animation with "Meet the Robinsons". He is composer Danny Elfman.
Hello, sir. How are you?
DANNY ELFMAN, COMPOSER: Hello.
BECK: I am -- I am such a huge fan, and I found out today, I have -- my wife and I have -- we try to play a game. If we watch a movie, we hear the first few notes, is it Elfman or not? And you can tell your music immediately.
I believe there are only two really great music composers, you and Bernard Hermann, who wrote all of the scores for Hitchcock.
BECK: I found out today you`re a fan of his, as well.
ELFMAN: Bernard Hermann was my inspiration. He`s the reason I became a film composer.
BECK: I said -- you know, I said that yesterday when I found out you were going to be on the show. And everybody looked at me and said, "What about John Williams?"
I said, "John Williams? It`s these two." Movies...
ELFMAN: No, no, no. John Williams is a legend. He`s -- you know, he almost single-handedly is responsible for bringing back orchestral film music, really, to be what it is.
BECK: Come on.
ELFMAN: Bernard Hermann is the one who inspired me when I was about 12 years old to be aware of film music, because he was the first composer whose name I looked for on the movies, when I went to the movies. When I saw Hermann as a kid, that meant I was going to have a little extra enjoyment out of the movie.
BECK: Yes. He really -- he just wrapped them up, and you do the same thing. Especially, "Edward Scissorhands", great movie. Unbelievable score. It makes that movie.
ELFMAN: Thank you very much.
BECK: So the -- where do you get your -- I don`t know. Because it`s almost fantasy. It is such a cool sound that you create. Where do you get that?
ELFMAN: Well, I don`t know. As you know, I actually do compose in the Los Angeles CNN NEWSROOM. And this is where I have my studio. So...
BECK: It would sound a little like...
(hums Darth Vader theme).
BECK: That`s what the newsroom sounds like.
ELFMAN: No but sometimes the sound of the newsroom, things that -- the copy machine, the different sounds, other machines influence me and kind of works its way later into the rhythm of a piece.
You know, I didn`t realize until later that a rhythm that kind of got in my head when I was working the "Spider-Man" theme actually came from my co-worker`s word processor. They were working on a story, and that was just the sound of them typing.
BECK: Now, the latest that you`ve done is for "Meet the Robinsons". And is it -- is it easier, difficult, more difficult or the same to write for animation?
ELFMAN: It`s the same. I mean, actually, whether the characters are animated or real, I kind of get into it the same way. I know that sounds ridiculous. But I don`t think I would have dealt with it any differently had it been a live action fantasy called "Meet the Robinsons" with actors.
BECK: Have you ever -- have you ever turned anything down that you regretted? Have you ever went, "That`s not me"?
ELFMAN: Oh, my God, yes.
BECK: Really? What did you turn down that you thought...?
ELFMAN: I ain`t telling you out of respect for the directors who I didn`t work with and the composers who ended up doing the scores that I turned down that I regret. I can`t tell you who that is. But I have some, like, real thorns in my side that I still carry around with me.
BECK: Danny Elfman, thank you very much.
Coming up, the "Real Story" behind Nancy Pelosi`s vacation with Syria. Don`t miss it, coming up.
BECK: All right. Welcome to "The Real Story." This is where we try to cut through the media spin to figure out why a story is actually important to you.
Yesterday on "Meet The Press," Tim Russert asked Congressman Charles Rangel why $20 billion of pork was included in the emergency war supplemental. It passed the House last week. Here`s what Rangel said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: Because they needed the votes. That bill, we lost so many Democrats, one, because people thought we went too far, and others because we didn`t go far enough. And so a lot of things had to go into a bill that certainly those of us who respect great legislation did not want in there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECK: Yes. Great legislation, not exactly the term that came to mind for me, either. But honestly, Congressman, thank you for your honesty. At least somebody is finally admitting what this is really all about: buying votes. My grandparents used to call it a bribe.
The president, of course, has said all along that he`s going veto this bill, not because of just the pork, but because it also includes arbitrary dates that we have to start pulling our troops out of Iraq. That led to a little war of words between the president and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We expect the Congress to be wise about how they spend the people`s money.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Calm down with the threats. There`s a new Congress in town.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECK: When she said that, that made me laugh. Actually, Nancy, I don`t think there is a new Congress in town. The real story tonight: Is it the new, spineless, overspending Democratic Congress that replaced the old, spineless, overspending Republican Congress?
Has left for vacation, yes, with no troop funding yet approved. Nancy led a delegation, including a Republican, for a little sun and sand and an unauthorized negotiation with our enemies in Syria. But don`t worry. Don`t worry, the new secretary of state, Pelosi, says everything`s going to be just fine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PELOSI: We think it`s a good idea to establish the facts, to hopefully build some confidence between us. We have no illusions but we have great hope.
BECK: Oh, well, all we have to do is just hope that the nut jobs in Syria will listen to reason. No, no, why don`t you just say that? Maybe you can swing by Iran, you know. We could use a little of that hope to maybe free the hostages and end the nuclear program standoff. Go ahead. It`s great.
Unfortunately, Nancy`s little play date in the Middle East is distracting everyone from what she`s not doing here. Hello? Is anyone concerned about the emergency part of the emergency war spending bill?
You know, whether you agree with the war or not, I think everyone short of Cindy Sheehan would agree that stopping all of the funding right now, before withdrawing the troops, probably not in our best interests or the troops` best interests. But how long do we go before the bank account runs dry?
A new report came out this weekend. Couldn`t believe it, man. The Army says it can fund itself through July. But the politicians who are using that to justify their vacations are conveniently ignoring a little section in the same report that says the military would have to limit maintenance, repairs, and slow down troop training to do it. That would result in, you know, them not having the equipment that they need and troops that aren`t certified for combat, meaning longer tours for the troops already there.
Wow, Nancy and the gang in Washington, congratulations. You and the Democrats have now managed to break every single campaign promise in just one bill. And you`ve done it all on the backs of our troops.
Dana Perino, she is the deputy White House press secretary. Dana, first, let me ask you first how Tony Snow is.
DANA PERINO, DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Oh, thanks for asking. Tony got to go home yesterday, and so he told me he`s recovering nicely. He`s there with his family, and his kids are on spring break this week, so I understand that he`s got them out in the yard doing some work. Thanks for asking.
BECK: Good, good. You bet. He is one of the good guys. Quickly, Pelosi, what does this say to people, you know, the leaders of Syria when we have the leader of the House coming over to a fact-finding mission and try to build trust between each other?
PERINO: Well, it does sort of defy common sense. We, as an administration, have a policy of asking all U.S. officials to -- you know to discourage them from going to Syria. It does not help the situation.
President Assad likes to have these photo opportunities. He likes to broadcast them to the world. It does not make him change his behavior one bit, and it alleviates the pressure on him to change it.
He has horrible human rights abuses in his own country. He`s allowing foreign fighters to move across his border into Iraq, foreign fighters that are attacking our troops and innocent Iraqis. And he`s undermining the democratically elected government of Lebanon, not to mention that he`s a state sponsor of terror.
BECK: Dana, I know that nobody wants to use any word "evil" anymore. The president used to use the word "evil." But are we going to see that Ronald Reagan, you know, image coming out of George W. Bush again? I mean, somebody has got to define these people and continually define these people as evil, because that`s what they are.
PERINO: Well, we do think that all that President Assad does in order to help sponsor terrorism is one of the most disruptive things that we have in the region. And we have this fragile democracy in Iraq that is working to become the first democracy in the heart of the Middle East, and Syria is being one of the most unhelpful partners in that.
BECK: Cheney said that the speaker in Congress has misread George W. Bush. What did he mean by that?
PERINO: In regards to the Iraq war supplemental?
BECK: Yes, the spending.
PERINO: I think that what he meant by that is that it seems that, since they`ve known for many weeks that the president would veto the bill that they`ve wasted their time working on, that we would -- that they think that the president is going to back down. He`s not, and he`s said that he is not going to back down.
So I think what they -- the best thing that could happen is if they stop the charade, get the show on the road, send the bill up here. The president will veto it, and then we`ll take it from there.
BECK: Harry Reid said he`s going to go ahead and send one that has a pullout, a firm pullout date for next spring.
PERINO: You know, just last month, he said something different, so I can`t quite figure out what the Democrats are thinking unless they`re just getting new polling data and decide that they need to pull farther to the left.
BECK: Dana, thanks.
PERINO: Thank you.
BECK: Now, listen, if you are easily offended, please, mute the television right now. I`m not kidding. Really, I`ll give you a hand signal when it`s OK to listen again, because I`m about to say a couple of words. Here they are: Islamic extremist, yes, and radical Islam. OK, you can come back now.
Wait a minute. You`re not offended? Really? Not even Muslims are offended by that? Well, gosh, somebody should tell the European Union, because the "Real Story" is that they`ve reportedly created a classified handbook in Europe that advises government spokesmen against using those terms. They`re not Islamic terrorists. They`re not -- and I`m now kidding -- they are now terrorists whose abusively invoke Islam. And it`s certainly not a jihad against the West, because some Muslims have personal jihads and they don`t strap dynamite to themselves.
Every time we succumb to political correctness, every time we stop calling a spade a spade because we don`t want to insult somebody, we put another nail in our own coffin. A couple of weeks ago, the president of the E.U. Commission said that political correctness is killing our freedoms.
I`m going to go a step further. If we`re not careful, America, political correctness won`t just kill our freedoms: It will kill our children, as well!
Dr. Zuhdi Jasser, he is the chairman of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy. Doctor, please help me out. You`re a Muslim. Changing these words and these terms doesn`t change anything, does it?
DR. M. ZUHDI JASSER, American Islamic Forum for Democracy: Glenn, this is nothing short of intellectual appeasement. Chamberlain would be proud, because, you know, if you want to engage the moderate Muslim community to fight Islamism as an ideology, you know, Europe is always proving to be a laboratory of what we need to worry about in America as we get closer to that.
I mean, they need to understand that, as Muslims, the radicals are using Islam, and we can`t hand them over the mantle of my faith to say that this is Islam. If I`m going to fight them and say that political Islam is the enemy and prove to them that I can take the spiritual path of Islam and separate it from their stranglehold of the clerics, the only way I can do that is to say that they are ruining my spiritual path of Islam.
So to take away that word is actually the first step to surrender intellectually. And we`re not fighting a tactic; we`re fighting an ideology. And the only way we can treat this disease is to diagnosis it correctly and then treat it correctly.
BECK: And name it.
BECK: We`re not even allowed to name it anymore. When you can`t define your enemy, how can you even -- how can you describe them? How can you point them out?
JASSER: And I don`t even get the political correctness part. This is what they call themselves. Jamaat Islamiya, Islamayeen (ph), this is what they use in Arabic, the (INAUDIBLE) they use Muslims and Islam in their names.
If they`re fighting us, if they don`t agree with American ideology, we need to have that debate, we need to engage them, or political correctness is going to be our demise. They`re going to continue to dig their heels in on political Islam, and then the off-shoot of that militantism is going to thrive even more.
BECK: Put yourself in the shoes of a militant, extremist Muslim. You hear this, that they have a secret handbook now for the E.U. that says, "No longer describe them as Muslim extremists." You`re having cake tonight? I mean, you`re celebrating, aren`t you? If you`re a Muslim extremist, they`re celebrating.
JASSER: Absolutely. Exactly. That`s why they use our system, whether it`s our legal system of civil rights issues, or the issues of the media`s political correctness, they want this because they want to have hold of the religion, the religion theology. And the way they do that is to prevent debate.
The debate`s not happening in the mosques. It`s only going to happen outside for us to force changes within the sermons and in the mosques. And the only way we`re going to get to that debate is to acknowledge that we need to have reformation.
BECK: Zuhdi, one of the good guys. Thanks.
JASSER: Thanks, Glenn.
BECK: That`s "The Real Story." We`ll be back in just a minute.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BECK: Jim Meggs (ph) is a gentleman we`ve had on before, and he has done extensive study on all of the crackpot theories on 9/11.
ROSIE O`DONNELL, HOST, "THE VIEW": I do believe that it is first time in history that fire has ever melted steel.
BECK: Stop. Jim?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First of all, of course fire can melt steel. That`s how you make steel. But leaving that aside, no one who`s researched any of the three tower collapses is claiming that the fire melted the steel. What they`re saying is that the fire...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... weakened the steel enough to contribute to the collapse of the building.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECK: All right. Hard to imagine a more powerful bond than that that exists between a mom and her child. I watch my wife with my children, and it is amazing. There`s something about moms that is primal. You know, you can see it throughout nature, unless you`re in Detroit, apparently.
A mother of five is under arrest there after police say she offered up her 7-year-old daughter for pornographic photos, and, quoting, "anything else was available if the price was right." I can`t even imagine the mom that could do that with her own daughter. And when you hear things like that, I pray to God that he would show her mercy, but the justice system doesn`t, you know, although I live in America, and I fear it`s going to be the other way around.
What punishment could possibly fit such a horrific crime? Let me introduce you to the crime first. Wayne County Sheriff Warren Evans, he was heading the case. Sheriff, what exactly did you find at the hotel?
SHERIFF WARREN EVANS, WAYNE COUNTY: Well, Glenn, we found the mother who brought the 7-year-old child with several different outfits that she wanted to model while the molestation or exploitation was going on and duffel bag full of sex toys with most of the things that you could imagine that she was willing to allow the person that was going to meet the child to use on her.
BECK: I`ve got to tell you, sheriff, I mean, this is why you have a badge and a gun and I don`t. I don`t know how you guys do it everyday. I don`t know how you don`t just shoot people like that. My gosh, how horrified were you when this happened?
EVANS: Well, pretty horrified. I mean, we have an Internet crimes unit that has identified, you know, that there are so many sexual predators out there and obviously vulnerable children. But how often do you have that nexus between the parent actually helping to exploit the child? And I think that`s what`s been so painful to most of us, and even the seasoned officers who do this for a living were really troubled.
BECK: Now, she has five children, right?
EVANS: She has five children. The child involved in this case is the second from the youngest. Her kids range from 12 to 6.
BECK: Any idea at this point? You`ve got to be looking into it. I mean, it can`t be the first time that something like this has happened with these kids.
EVANS: Well, this case kind of indicates that the first -- that the child involved in this case might have been exploited previously and, of course, you know, that would sound logical. And, obviously, we`d be concerned about all of the other kids, because, you know, if the mother would do it to one, we would expect that there could be problems with others so that`s going on now.
BECK: How much was she selling the kid for?
EVANS: Well, it depended how much exploitation was going to occur. If it was just posing in the outfits, it would be significantly less. If it led to actual sex or penetration, it would have been more.
BECK: Good god. Sheriff, thanks.
Let me go to Wendy Murphy now. She is a former prosecutor, professor at the New England School of Law. Wendy, we`re talking now about just sexual abuse charges. What about prostitution? What about child slavery?
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes, that is exactly what we should be calling it. And let`s call it rape, not sex. I mean, when this crime happens, it`s so hard to get at it, because it happens behind closed doors. And the person we expect to report on this kind of behavior, the parents are actually the criminals, which makes it even harder to get at. So we should have a law on the books in every state that makes this a life felony, because she should never be near a child again.
BECK: She`s looking at 20, 25 years maximum?
MURPHY: It`s outrageous. And let me tell you something, Glenn. This is interesting about Michigan law. If you`re a pimp of an adult woman, that`s 20 years maximum. Guess what? There`s no up-tick if the victim being prostituted is a 7-year-old child. That is embarrassing to Michigan. Michigan lawmakers should pay heed.
In most states, there`s a statute called pimping a person, and it`s a 20-year felony, let`s say. When you pick on a kid, that should be mandatory life. That`s a problem in Michigan.
BECK: You know, I was reading something about Nancy Pelosi going over to Syria, you know, and all these people who are trying to put good thoughts into the heads of the Iranians, and it`s something called mirroring. And it is human nature for you to say, "Well, they`ve got to be reasonable, because, you know, I`m reasonable."
In many ways, we mirror people like this because we can`t accept that there would be a mother that would do this. So immediately -- and they haven`t started yet that I know of -- but you know people are going to say, "Well, she`s got to be insane. She`s got to be nuts."
MURPHY: Yes, it`s one of the reasons why people like this get plea bargains way down in the basement, because we know -- and I saw this as a problem when I was a prosecutor -- you put this kind of person in front of a jury, and they`re going to say, "I just can`t get my head around the idea that a mother could do this to a child. She`s got to be mentally ill."
Or there`s all sorts of sympathy. I mean, if you give birth to a sweet, little baby, you can`t hurt it. And we romanticize that image, and she gets the benefit, which means she gets away with this kind of crime. We`ve got to knock that out. We`ve got to take a hit in that desire to feel good sometimes in order to protect the kids better.
BECK: We just had the sheriff there tell us that there`s all kinds of crime going on against kids. The first time you heard about this -- does this happen a lot with the parents or is it rare?
MURPHY: Well, let me say this. Alberto Gonzales last year said that, in terms of prostituting children for pornography, the most common villain is the parent. I know that sounds horrible, but that`s the attorney general of the United States; I believe him.
I`ve seen other types of people, non-parents, pimping kids for prostitution and pornography. I had cases like that as a prosecutor, but they`re rare to get your hands on, which is why they`re rare to prosecute.
But, look, the incidence rate is what it is. It`s an epidemic. We don`t know about it because it often happens behind closed doors. And guess what? Kids aren`t capable of protecting themselves, so they`re not telling us about it. That`s why we have to send the strongest message possible when we have the opportunity. And Michigan, because of their crummy laws, can`t help us do that in this case.
BECK: Wendy, thanks. We`ll be back in a minute.
BECK: Big day for the radio program, makes its debut in Chicago tonight on 105.9 WCKG. We`ll be on from 9:00 to midnight. Matt Dahl`s show is right before mine. He joins me now.
Matt, welcome to the program.
MATT DAHL, 105.9 FREE FM: How you doing, Glenn?
BECK: Very good. Big day in Chicago, right, Cubs?
DAHL: Oh, yes, big day. It`s opening day.
BECK: And it was announced that the Cubs are selling after the end of this season.
DAHL: Yes, right.
BECK: Is that a good thing or a bad thing? It can`t really get worse for the Cubs, can it?
DAHL: Right. I think it can only really go up for the Cubs, so we`ll see. I`m not really sure what they`re going to do, but I think they`ve -- it`s been since 1908 since the Cubs have been to the series.
BECK: Oh, stop your belly-aching. You guys were belly-aching about the White Sox.
DAHL: Well, I`m a Sox fan, so...
BECK: I do have to tell you, this is bad news for Chicago, because I have found that every city that I`ve ever really been attached to, when my radio show starts there, the team goes downhill. So, I mean, I know the Cubs can`t go any lower, but you do have the Bears, and you do have the White Sox. Not going to be a good time, really, for Chicago in sports. Sorry to say.
DAHL: Thus begins the Glenn Beck curse in Chicago, is what you`re telling me?
BECK: Yes, it is the Glenn Beck curse. The other thing that`s going on in Chicago that I`m curious about is the cop-beating.
BECK: What was the reaction in Chicago to that dirt bag that was just beating the crap out of that woman?
DAHL: I think most people were a little surprised someone like that working on our police force, obviously. And a lot of people were kind of disappointed that -- I don`t know if you saw the one that took place out at Jesse`s Shortstop Grill or wherever the cop was beating up on the woman. She got back up and right back in his face. So we even think that was an appropriate smackdown.
BECK: I got to tell you, I applaud the woman. She was mad. This woman just kept coming after that guy.
DAHL: Absolutely, yes.
BECK: I wouldn`t have gotten back up. Thanks, Matt. We`ll see you on the radio.
DAHL: Thank you.
BECK: Tune in tomorrow on the radio and tomorrow night right here from New York. Good night.