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Glenn Beck

Poll Provides Mixed News on Muslim American Attitudes; Declassified Intelligence Reveals al Qaeda Plans in Iraq

Aired May 23, 2007 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GLENN BECK, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, suicide attacks in defense of Islam. A new poll reveals some young American Muslims actually think it`s warranted.

Plus, Congress haggles over war spending, new intelligence on terror operations in Iraq.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Osama bin Laden warned the American people, quote, "Operations are under preparation, and you will see them on your own ground."

BECK: What bin Laden is doing there to hit targets here.

And is America ready for a nuclear attack? I`ll tell you what Harvard and Stanford says our government should do now to prepare for if -- no, sorry, when the big one hits.

All this and more tonight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BECK: Hello, America. A new pew research poll has come out which surveyed Muslims living here in the U.S. from everything from al Qaeda to profiling, and the results are very encouraging, if you read the whole thing in context.

I touched on this briefly yesterday, but if you look closely at the numbers, they are not only very encouraging, they`re also simultaneously horrifying, as well.

Here`s the point tonight. Our worst fears are about to be proven correct. Islam extremists are here in America, and here`s how I got there. Basically, this poll is comprised of really good news which the media is jumping on, kind of, and then really creepy news, which I`m about to illustrate for you.

First, the good news. The headline from "USA Today" reads today "Most American Muslims reject violence." Great, it`s true. And the numbers in the survey back that claim up, as well.

But the story behind the headline is this. Twenty-six percent of American Muslims under 30 feel that suicide bombings against civilians are sometimes justified. That basically means that one quarter of American Muslims under 30 are OK with the idea of targeting innocent people to defend Islam.

Twenty-six percent, mind you, adds up to 280,000 people living right here. If you add the folks in who answered "I don`t know," or they wouldn`t answer, to that number, it spikes up to about half a million Americans.

Can you imagine after Oklahoma City if a poll came out which said one- quarter of white Americans think it`s OK to blow up federal buildings I believe the headline would be different in "USA Today". It would constitute a national crisis of epic proportions. And guess what? So does this, or at least it should.

I feel honestly a little like Al Gore here, but let`s move on to some other interesting charts and graphs from the poll. Another number that jumped out to me was this. Forty-seven percent of Muslims think of themselves as Muslims first, as opposed to 28 percent who think of themselves as American.

By comparison, 47 percent of Christians think of themselves as American first.

Now, these are the facts. What does it mean? Well, it means if you are a Muslim-first Muslim, you are three times more likely to think suicide bombing is justified and less than half as likely to believe that Arabs carried out 9/11.

Quick side note. Only 40 percent of American Muslims believe Arabs were responsible for 9/11.

Now here`s the final poll that I think is one of the most jarring of all of them. Seven percent of U.S. Muslims aged 18 to 29 have a favorable opinion of al Qaeda. That`s scary enough, but what`s even more frightening is the fact that 29 percent, or 630,000 Muslims, didn`t know or refused to answer. Really? It seems kind of simple to me, if you want an answer.

I mean, if we`re talking about stem cell research, I`ll accept I don`t know. I haven`t been able to figure that out. But if you`re a Muslim living here after 9/11 and you haven`t taken the time to noodle al Qaeda yet?

Here`s what I know tonight. I know that most Muslims reject violence, and they are our greatest ally here in America. The poll will tell you that Muslim Americans actually have a more hopeful, optimistic belief in the future of America and their future in America than people like me and most of the U.S. population that is not Muslim.

However, there is still a sizable portion of Muslims here in America who either accept or even condone violence against us. This poll will not truly be good news until that number is a lot closer to zero.

Here`s what I don`t know. How long will it be until one of these people who support al Qaeda commits an act of terror against innocent civilians? It`s no longer a question of if but a question of when.

Joining me now is Nonie Darwish. She is the author of "Now They Call Me Infidel: Why I Renounced Jihad for America, Israel and the War on Terror". And Zuhdi Jasser. He is of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy and a frequent contributor to this program. And also a Muslim American.

Zuhdi, let me -- let me start with you. Let`s go back to the al Qaeda question. Twenty-nine percent of Muslims in this survey say they have no view on al Qaeda or they refuse to answer. What does that tell you as a member of the Muslim community?

ZUHDI JASSER, AMERICAN ISLAMIC FORUM FOR DEMOCRACY: It tells me about the lack of leadership. It tells me about the lack of moral courage in that, when we ask Muslims -- you know, they`re in denial. They say they condemn terrorism, but they`ve never condemned the organizations by name. They`ve never condemned the end.

And what this study should be telling America is certainly there`s hope because of the majority of Muslims are where our organization is, but the issue is, is they need to be pushed and prodded to be more clear about condemning the end. And that`s how we defeat the means.

BECK: OK.

JASSER: The study here, this is about political Islam, Glenn, clear and simple.

BECK: OK. Two things. First of all, Zuhdi, I have interpreted these numbers, where they are high numbers on don`t know or refuse to answer, as quite possibly fear, fear of the government tapping their phones and then you`re on record saying you support al Qaeda, or fear of you don`t know who`s in your neighbor.

It`s like going to Worcester Street in New Haven and saying, you know, do you believe in the mob? "I`d rather not answer right now."

Is it possible that either of those options are why the high numbers on don`t know or refuse to answer in this poll?

JASSER: Oh, I`m sure that`s part of it. I mean, you have to remember my parents, for example, and most of our families, this shows that most Muslims are immigrants, escaped societies that were just despotic. They`ve always been afraid of the government. And this is -- that baggage comes with them.

But we have to start understanding as a community that the only way to defeat this is to get back the moral courage of Islam, to declare that the Islamists are our enemies and that we are Americans first and Muslims second, because our faith will never be questioned between us and God personally. But what gives us our freedom to be Muslims is our country.

BECK: OK.

JASSER: And that`s where we start to have to fight this ideology.

BECK: Nonie, I`ve seen this, what he was just talking about, seeing this in the poll. The people who move in and are not born here, they`re actually more positive. And they`re much -- they`re much more likely to condemn political Islam. They`re much more likely to condemn al Qaeda, suicide bombings, et cetera, et cetera, than those who are living here.

What -- what I want to understand from you, because you`re somebody who has studied suicide bombing for a very long time, you see these numbers. What are the trigger points to make these people who are saying, you know, 26 percent under 30 that sometimes, even if it`s rarely, suicide bombing is justified? What`s a trigger point for them to move from there to actually doing it?

NONIE DARWISH, AUTHOR, "NOW THEY CALL ME INFIDEL: Well, in time of crisis a lot of these people can do acts of terrorism at the individual level. They don`t have to belong to al Qaeda, but we have seen several acts of terrorism by individuals in the United States.

But we still treat it as a police matter. They are inspired, unfortunately, by Islamic leadership who glorify suicide bombings.

BECK: Let me ask you. Let me ask you both this question. Help me out. Who is -- who is the Islamic leadership that is inspiring this? Where`s -- where are these people, and how come we never hear about them anywhere?

DARWISH: The al-Azhar leader, the leader of al-Azhar University which is the oldest Islamic university in Cairo, did announce that terrorism under certain conditions against civilians is justifiable.

BECK: Now but Zuhdi, help me out here in America. Do you see this -- do you see this radical view of Islam here in America? If you were just going to another city and you went into a mosque, is this the kind of teaching that you would expect to hear?

JASSER: No, no, I mean, that type of violent militant radicalism is - - I`ve never seen it in my life. I`ve been active in the Muslim community my entire life. Militancy I just don`t see in America. And this study actually showed that.

But the issue is what you do see is glorification of political Islam, blaming America for everything, conspiracy theories about the Zionists and the west. And what happens is that is, even if it`s non-violent, that is the seed that then, when planted in a young impressionable, hateful mind, then becomes the fuse that lights them to become radical.

BECK: Nonie, help me out, because this is my understanding of what the problem is, and I don`t think most people understand this, and maybe I`m wrong. I don`t think the problem is Islam. The problem is political Islam.

It has been turned into this -- into -- there is no separation of mosque and state. Am I wrong on that? That`s where the trouble gets in, is when politics and religion combine?

DARWIN: Absolutely. And those impressionable young Muslims do watch satellite dishes from the Arab world, who are using political Islam all the time against the west. They watch Al Jazeera and all these Arab channels.

They watch very radical Muslim leaders in the Middle East, and they regard them as their heroes. There is no separation of church and state.

BECK: OK.

DARWISH: And many of them aspire. Their dream is to see Islam conquer the world.

BECK: Let me -- let me go to back to Zuhdi. One last question for you. Overall, U.S. Muslims` view on al Qaeda, 58 percent very unfavorable. If you break that out, though, if you look at native-born black Muslims, only 36 percent have an unfavorable view.

We`re seeing that those people who are coming in from across the sea have a much different view of Islam than those here. They`re much more likely, if you`re a foreigner, to believe -- it`s like you`re escaping. Am I wrong?

JASSER: You`re right, and that they know -- they know what the danger and the radicalism of how it controls society, how much theocracy is a disaster. They`re coming to a pluralistic society to be more free Muslims.

BECK: Right.

JASSER: So the issue is we need to start having this debate, because what`s happening is you have incubators of ideology that is run by Wahaabists, that are actually radical.

BECK: OK.

JASSER: And you`re not allowing the opening of an Islamic mind.

BECK: Nonie, Zuhdi, thank you very much.

Coming up, the White House declassifies information saying that Osama bin Laden is planning to use Iraq as a base to launch attacks inside the U.S. Good intelligence or a clever P.R. move?

Plus, according to at least one report, the president has signed off on covert action in Iran, just as the military increases war-gaming in the Persian Gulf. Preparation for war? Don`t miss tonight`s "Real story".

And super producer Jerry Bruckheimer is going to join me here in the studio to talk about the new "Pirates" movie, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Coming up, the president has signed off on covert operations in Iran. Gee, I feel like I feel like we`ve been down this road before. Will it work this time? We`ll have that story in just a minute.

But first Iraq. It has -- you know, it`s been a while. I was starting to get used to the Democrats using their control of Congress, you know, to get absolutely nothing accomplished. But it looks like they`re actually going to approve the president`s emergency war spending bill.

Time lines are now gone, not a minute too son. The men and women in Iraq need all the resources and support they can get, especially with this in the news.

According to declassified intelligence reports, we`ve known since 2005 that Osama bin Laden has planned to use Iraq as a base from which to launch attacks inside the United States. The president mentioned that today at the Coast Guard commencement. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: If al Qaeda succeeds in Iraq, they would pursue their stated goals of turning that nation into a base from which to overthrow governments in the region, impose their hateful ideology on millions, and launch new attacks on America and other nations. Victory in Iraq is important for Osama bin Laden, and victory in Iraq is vital for the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: I`ve been telling you this all along. If we don`t secure Iraq, al Qaeda will spread across that country like a cancer, and al Qaeda is just the beginning of it. They`ll devise more nightmarish plans -- they`ve already doing it -- to kill Americans overseas and more on our own soil.

The more of them we can kill over there, the less of them can kill us over here.

Steve Emerson is the executive director of the Investigative Project on Terrorism and author of "Jihad Incorporated".

Steve, this really doesn`t seem like new news to me at all. Is it?

STEVE EMERSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, INVESTIGATIVE PROJECT ON TERRORISM: Well, a lot of it has come out sort of piecemeal over the last few years, but there has been some new news today.

The attacks on the east coast at the base that he was speaking at, that is news. And the fact is he`s putting it all together in sort of a jigsaw puzzle that hasn`t been pieced together before, basically stating that, if Iraq becomes dominated by al Qaeda, by a unilateral, U.S. withdrawal, it will become the next Afghanistan.

BECK: But haven`t we -- I mean, if anybody has been following this, haven`t we already figured this out ourself? I mean, even if you just listened to Osama bin Laden and the president of Iran, they have both said -- this is in their worlds -- World War III. It`s the fight for ancient Babylon, which is Iraq. It is going to be the head of the caliphate. I mean, they`re both saying it. Why don`t we take these people at their word?

EMERSON: You know, Glenn, this is the quintessential act of self- denial. I mean, you know, the U.S. public or the U.S. politicians have been in denial. The U.S. media has been in denial.

Look at their reaction to the story about the 26 percent of the Muslim youth that believe in suicide bombings. I mean, most of the media didn`t report that. They just focused on the good aspect of the poll. They didn`t want to report on this dangerous trend in American Muslim youth.

I think the fact that the president did not even mention this poll in his speech today, which would have been a perfect opportunity, shows that there`s a certain political correctness going on here.

BECK: You know, it is a -- it`s frightening. It really is frightening. I think people -- I think people, whether they will admit it or not in the media, are afraid to call a spade a spade and say you`ve got 26 percent of these people here in America that say it`s OK, even if it`s rarely, it`s OK to target civilians.

How do you recover from that, Steve? How do you do it?

EMERSON: You don`t. You have to admit it. Listen, if we don`t face up to the enemy at home and recognize the radical nature of who we are fighting and who we have to confront, we`re never going to beat them.

And if we`re afraid to confront them, we can just throw in the towel. And the fact is that we`ve been afraid to admit who our enemy is. The enemy is at home here. And we fight this battle, basically, at yesterday`s war level. We have to get ahead of the curve and basically confront those ideological believers in this extremism.

And they are here. And we are dealing with them by recognizing them, as opposed to confronting them.

BECK: Let me ask you this, because let me go back to that poll for a second. I was looking through the poll, and it compares all the European nations and the Arab nations, as well, all the Arab and Muslim nations.

And you look at that. And you see over in Europe how much trouble they`re in. Europe and England, in particular, is in really bad shape.

How long will it be if we don`t stop it, before we lose the ally of England, let`s say, before they`re just not capable of turning that ship around?

EMERSON: Well, I would say, Glenn, that to be honest with you, when you look in the future demographically, they`ve lost it. You know, I`ve spoken to British officials. I`ve spoken to European intelligence officials. When you look at Rotterdam and Antwerp, they`ll be Muslim cities in the next 10, 15 years.

BECK: I saw -- I`m reading a great book called "America Alone". And one of the stats that just blew my mind was by 2050, the average -- 60 percent of Italians will not have a brother, sister, aunt, uncle, niece or nephew. That`s going to be a lonely dinner table.

Steve, thanks a lot.

Coming up, the -- every parent wants, you know, better skills for their children in school to be able to study, but what if the lesson plan was created by the inventor of Scientology? Well, one public school has started using it, and not everybody is jumping on couches. I`ll explain.

Plus, sneak peek at "The Pirates of the Caribbean 3: At World`s End". A guaranteed blockbuster. Its creator, Jerry Bruckheimer, will be here in just a second.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: I don`t know what you`re like when your kids have low test scores, but I would do just about anything to make sure my kids get the extra help and attention that they deserve and need.

But what happens if you`re in a school, and that help comes in the form of a program of study skills developed by the founder of the Church of Scientology? How do you feel?

Public school in Louisiana is now finding out. Their eighth graders are now being taught with the same methods used to teach the likes of Tom Cruise and John Travolta.

David Touretzky, he is a research professor at Carnegie Mellon University.

David, you have a problem with this?

DAVID TOURETZKY, CARNEGIE MELLON UNIVERSITY: Yes, I do. The teaching of Scientology methods in public schools is unconstitutional because it`s covert instruction in the Scientology religion.

BECK: OK. Now how exactly is that?

TOURETZKY: Well, the jargon used in these classes, things like mask, radiant, misunderstood as a noun, these are found only in Scientology religious scripture.

And the physiological reaction that students are taught, such as going past a misunderstood word can cause a feeling of nervous hysteria, these are unsupported by any kind of scientific research. Students are supposed to take these assertions on faith, because L. Ron Hubbard said it.

BECK: OK. You know, I kind of had a problem. I`d like to invite John Travolta on the program to -- not Tom Cruise, because he`s a little -- but John Travolta to describe this, because Scientology is saying, "That`s none of this. This is -- we`re not teaching the religion. We`re just helping kids learn to study." And the results, they say, are pretty amazing.

TOURETZKY: Well, it`s interesting that the best results they got in Louisiana were in the math scores. And that`s an area that L. Ron Hubbard said nothing about.

But we know that focused attention is good for kids. And that`s why small class sizes are important. And these classes in Baton Rouge had a five to one student/teacher ratio.

But if you were to apply the Scientology techniques in the normal classroom, you would not get those kinds of results. In fact, education professors have called these Scientology materials moronic and potentially harmful.

BECK: You know, I have to tell you, you know, I don`t care if you teach reading and it`s in the Bible. You know, it`s what we used to do. I`m a little skeptical, quite honestly, of professors from universities and their phobia on religion. You -- you`ve claimed that this is going to cause a mass conversion?

TOURETZKY: No. I don`t think that`s true at all. They`re not actively trying to convert kids to Scientology in the classroom.

What they`re trying to do is gain a foothold in civilized society, and they`re trying to rehabilitate the reputation of L. Ron Hubbard from psychotic conman to wise and revered teacher.

But Scientology, many people remember that Scientology was behind the largest domestic espionage case in the U.S. They infiltrated over 100 government offices. They stole files from the FBI. They bugged an IRS conference room. These are not nice people.

And they want to get back in society`s good graces, and they think the way to do it is to try to push buttons like education.

BECK: I have to tell you, as you know, you come out and you blast Scientology. And, look, I`m not a fan of Scientology by any stretch of the imagination. But you come out and you blast Scientology, and yet in New York, they`re building an Arabic school. We`ve got -- you know, we`ve got all kinds of schools all over that are teaching things that I wouldn`t teach, but are you coming out against those, as well?

TOURETZKY: I don`t think the people building the Arabic school are lying about their intentions.

BECK; Well, you`ve got an Arabic school. The principal here in New York refuses to admit that Hezbollah, Hamas or al Qaeda are terrorist groups. That seems disturbing.

David, I`ve got to run, but thank you very much.

Up next, the president signs off on covert action in Iran. Is this one step closer to war? Don`t miss tonight`s "Real Story".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Coming up in just a couple of minutes, "Pirates of the Caribbean" opens up, it`s "Pirates 3." I`ll give you a preview of it tonight. Plus, producer Jerry Bruckheimer, a guy whose movies have made $18 billion, is going to stop by. I`m most interested -- I want to know how much he`s pulling down a year. I`ll ask him in a couple of minutes.

First, tonight`s "Real Story." This is where we try to cut through the media spin and try to figure out why a story is actually important to you. And for the last year, I`ve been saying we need to identify Iran as the head of the snake in the Middle East and do what we can to stop the evil that is the leadership of Iran.

The "Real Story" is, President Bush is doing just that now with a new approval on non-lethal covert operations against Iran. It`s not really so covert anymore, is it, if I`m talking about it? One of the reasons so many politicians invoke the name of Ronald Reagan is that he knew a little something about defeating evil and an evil empire.

Reagan brought down the Soviets without any bloodshed. Instead of utilizing the resources of the military, he used the U.S. intelligence community, deadly effective tactics of propaganda, disinformation, and economic pressure. Now, while it didn`t always work -- let`s not forget pesky Nicaragua there -- it was a plan that worked more often than not, and President Bush seems to think that it might work again. Apparently, he`s just ain`t the dummy the Democrats and most of the press would like to believe he is.

With the president giving his approval rating to the CIA to mount a covert, non-lethal operation against Iran, we now may have a chance at stabilizing the Iranian government and avoiding an all-out war. If we can put a stop to Iran`s insane plans while sparing the lives of many American soldiers and Iranian civilians, as well, then the president just might go down as one of the shrewdest political thinkers in recent memory. We`re a long way from there.

Peter Brookes is a senior fellow in national security affairs at the Heritage Foundation. Hello, Peter.

PETER BROOKES, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Hi, Glenn.

BECK: First question, if this is so covert, why do I know about it?

BROOKES: Well, actually, what covert means, Glenn, here is that there`s plausible deniability that the United States is not involved in these actions. Now, clandestine means, well, clandestine means secret.

BECK: OK.

BROOKES: Covert means that we`re not involved. It`s not the United States. Our fingerprints aren`t on it. Now, clandestine is a different meaning, and that means that it`s secret. In this case, you know, it could be that they know these operations are going on, but they don`t know who`s behind them.

BECK: But didn`t we just come out and say what we`re doing?

BROOKES: Right.

BECK: I mean, I saw the plan in the paper today. We`re doing something with their currency. What are we doing with the currency?

BROOKES: Well, we could go after their bank accounts. We could try to devalue their currency around the world. The idea here, Glenn, is that things are going to happen to Iran -- if this is true. We don`t know that it`s true, but if it`s true, things are going to happen to Iran that are not going to have our fingerprints on it.

BECK: Peter, hang on. Wait, I`ll just help you out here. If anyone from the Iranian government is watching, we`re definitely not devaluing your currency, and it ain`t us.

BROOKES: Well, there`s going to be propaganda. But the idea here is that they`re not going to be able to point the finger at the United States government for the things that do happen to them. It`s different than, you know -- if it`s different than if you were using soldiers or something, and you were invading a country, there`s no -- you can`t deny that. But in this case, there will be actions that will happen to Iran that they will not be able to finger the U.S. government with.

BECK: Does this tell you anything about us ratcheting it up? Does this tell you anything that we`re getting nervous that they`re getting close? Is this a last step? Is this a first step? What is this?

BROOKES: I think the important thing, Glenn, here is that it`s not just about the nuclear program. That is part of it, but this is about the Iranian regime and all the things they`re involved in.

Look, they`re involved in Afghanistan. They`re supporting the Taliban. They`re supporting everybody against us in Iraq. They might be behind some of the troublemaking that`s going on in Lebanon today, I mean, terrorism, Hezbollah, Hamas. I mean, the idea here is to keep them busy at home and keep them from getting busy abroad.

BECK: OK. You say they might be involved in Lebanon?

BROOKES: Well, OK. Fair enough.

BECK: I mean, well, maybe that`s a covert operation for them.

BROOKES: That`s right, that`s right, it`s a clandestine operation.

BECK: That`s right, that`s what it is. I always mix those two up.

Do you see us making any steps in preparing for any kind of hot war with them? I know we`re out and doing military maneuvers out there. Are we at all in a position as a nation with our credibility now to even scare them?

BROOKES: Well, you know, we always have war plans. I mean, when I worked at the Pentagon, we were always updating these sort of things. We`re always ready to go at a moment`s notice. Of course, the big question now, would we have the political will to do it? And you`ve touched it perfectly.

I mean, look what`s going on with Iraq today. There`s a lot of political questions. Remember, war is fundamentally political. What would we do? We have the capability. And, remember, the Air Force is not that busy in Iraq today, nor is the Navy, and if we went after their nuclear program, for instance, these would be the main players, and they`re certainly capable of doing it.

BECK: OK. As always, Peter, thanks.

Now, nuclear attack on America, it has been a scary plot device in movies since the 1950s, and here we are. "The Real Story" tonight is that, here in 2007, it is a scenario based more in fact than fiction. Fortunately, up to now, terrorist attacks have only employed conventional weapons, you know, bullets and bombs, and they are quite capable of taking life and wreaking havoc, but they don`t pose the same catastrophic threat as a nuclear device.

Our military and intelligence forces are doing everything they can to prevent such a terrorist plot, but the cold, hard truth now is that most experts agree that we can`t just focus merely on preventing a nuclear attack on our nation. Instead, we have to devise a plan for how our society and how our government can function if and when that attack should occur.

A joint study by Harvard and Stanford Universities is developing that plan. I`m joined now by a man who knows it very well. His name is Charles Ferguson, a fellow at the Council of Foreign Relations.

Charles, I read about this in the "San Francisco Chronicle" this last weekend. This is frightening stuff. We are talking not about just 100,000 people dead; we`re talking about ramifications that ripple all across the world.

CHARLES FERGUSON, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: That`s right, Glenn. I mean, the consequences in terms of the economic damage could soar upwards of $1 trillion. Some experts believe it could spark a global economic depression. And I`m concerned that it could spark, actually, a global thermonuclear war.

We could be back in a nightmare scenario that we were in during the Cold War. Imagine if nuclear material leaked out of Russia, and we traced the bomb back to that Russian material. What do we do? Do we nuke Moscow? I mean, it`s sort of a scenario from the movie "Fail-Safe," when we kind of trade New York for Moscow.

BECK: But let`s -- you know what? Before we go to global nuclear war, because that`s what would happen -- I mean, if we would bomb -- let`s say we found out that it was from Iran, we bombed them, somebody else is going to bomb. I mean, it`s going to get ugly.

I want to go back to the point, if they destroyed just a large section -- let`s just say they destroyed all of Wall Street. The economy here in New York, the real estate prices alone, between New York and Connecticut and New Jersey would just collapse, because no one would -- nobody would want to live here. What does that mean to the economy? That would collapse at least the American economy, most likely, and thus collapse the entire world, wouldn`t it?

FERGUSON: It could, but in terms of attack on Wall Street, it`s my understanding that the financial network is backed up. Every day...

BECK: I`m not saying...

(CROSSTALK)

BECK: Yes, I`m not saying that. I`m saying just from the real estate market. You have a 1,000-square-foot home here in New York City. It`s over $1 million.

FERGUSON: Right.

BECK: Who wants to live or work on this island if you`re thinking there are only six exits, if you`re thinking somebody could drop a nuke here? And somebody does, what happens to the real estate market and, how does that ripple across the economy?

FERGUSON: Oh, exactly, and a similar event could play out in Washington, D.C. I live on Capitol Hill right within a mile of the Capitol, and, you know, the way the wind patterns blow, my house would be covered in radioactive contamination. So, you know, whoops, there goes the housing market.

BECK: You know, we sent our cameras out to the fallout shelters here in New York City. They`re completely dismantled.

FERGUSON: Right.

BECK: I mean, if I`m not mistaken, Bill Clinton got rid of the Geiger counters, because they weren`t necessary anymore back in the 1990s. What are some of the plans that you guys are saying, "You`ve got to do right now"?

FERGUSON: Well, even this Harvard-Stanford study is considering recommending bomb shelters in some places, but what`s interesting, about the same time that that group was meeting, there are two engineers from the Carnegie Mellon University who published a report saying, oh, bomb shelters aren`t necessary. We just need to communicate the right information to the public.

Yes, good luck. I mean, this is a very complex issue. We need to have an adult conversation with the American public about what they need to know.

BECK: What is the part of the study that I read that says that the government may not be able to continue or that it would be a disrupted government for quite some time? They were talking about transportation would be shut down and the government would fail, at least for a while. Is that overstating it by the paper, or what is that?

FERGUSON: I don`t think it`s overstating it. Even after 9/11, you`ll recall that Vice President Cheney was hiding out away from Washington. We put forward a continuity-of-government plan. At that point, I was working in the State Department. You know, some government officials were hiding out in northern Virginia. So we`re already thinking along those lines, but I think we need to think even more in depth and broadly about what we need to do to ensure that this country can move on.

BECK: And the average person, what can they do? I mean, they hear stuff like this, most of America -- the president -- I mean, homeland security already has said, "Prepare for these kinds of things." Most Americans don`t pay attention. What should they be doing?

FERGUSON: Well, I think Americans should develop their resilience for not just this type of terrorist attack, but for catastrophes, for natural disasters, have adequate stocks of bottled water and non-perishable food, hand-cranked radios, simple things like that, enough cash on hand to last for several days. And if you are near a nuclear blast and you`re not killed, you know, from the blast, try to seek shelter as immediately as possible. Get underground as quickly as possible.

BECK: OK, great. Thanks, Charles.

That`s "The Real Story" tonight. If you`d like to read more about this or if you`ve found a real story of your own that you`d like to tell us about, please do. Visit glennbeck.com and click on "The Real Story" button. Now, back in a minute with the head of the "Pirates of the Caribbean," I mean, the real pirates, the actual guy, Jerry Bruckheimer. Oh, he`s loading the gold into his ship, coming up.

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BECK: The great thing about New York City, it is absolutely the best this country has to offer, and it is the worst this country has to offer. From God to hookers on crack within a five-block radius, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, that is America. You find what you`re looking for. That`s what freedom is. America is neither good nor evil; it just is. It is good if you want it to be good. It is evil if you want it to be evil.

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BECK: Summer movie season is in high gear, and one of the biggest movies to hit the screens is the latest chapter in the "Pirates of the Caribbean" series, "Pirates of the Caribbean: At World`s End," starring Johnny Depp. Here`s a look.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lookie here, boy. A lost lad that never learned to fly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To my great regret, but never too late to learn, eh?

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BECK: The movie opens worldwide May 25th. Joining me now, uber- producer Jerry Bruckheimer.

Here you have the last one in the successful -- after the first two. Do you sleep at night worried that the last one you`ve got to get right?

JERRY BRUCKHEIMER, FILM PRODUCER: You always worry about, you know, fear of failure. I do. That`s what motivates me more than anything else. The creative stuff is fantastic, but this movie is so fantastic. The second one was an hors d`oeuvres for the third one. The last 40 minutes off this movie is some of the best filmmaking I`ve ever been involved in. It`s during a maelstrom. It`s a storm. There are so many things that are happening constantly. The plot keep twisting, and you never know where the picture`s going. It`s romantic. It`s funny. It`s got all the things we go to movies for.

BECK: Hard to make a middle, like "Back to the Future 2"...

BRUCKHEIMER: Yes, it`s very difficult. And if you remember, the second was a cliffhanger. What happened? Johnny is gone. You know, Captain Jack disappeared. And so now they`ve got to go find Captain Jack, so it`s the quest to Davy Jones` locker.

BECK: Johnny Depp, an amazing actor. We were talking in the green room before we went on, and I think Tom Hanks is the Jimmy Stewart. Where would you put Johnny Depp? Who could you compare him to? He is really a fantastic...

BRUCKHEIMER: You can`t. You can`t. He`s a little bit of everybody. He could be Gary Cooper. He could be whoever you want him to be. He could be Clark Gable. He`s that handsome. So he`s that strong, romantic lead who can play a character actor.

BECK: And he modeled his character after Keith Richards, right?

BRUCKHEIMER: Keith Richards, and some cartoons, and a lot of other things.

BECK: And Keith is in "3"?

BRUCKHEIMER: Keith has got a small, little cameo. He shows up.

BECK: No makeup or a lot of makeup with Keith Richards?

BRUCKHEIMER: With Keith Richards, it`s Keith Richards, you know? We got him there. He looks like a pirate, doesn`t he?

BECK: So the first two made over $2 billion worldwide. Your career, your movies have made $17 billion. What are you pulling down a year?

BRUCKHEIMER: Me?

BECK: Yes.

BRUCKHEIMER: Oh, talk to my accountant. I have no idea. I can still pay my rent, which is good.

BECK: Is it amazing to you that this started with an amusement park ride?

BRUCKHEIMER: Well, you know, when Disney called me and said, "We want you to do this picture called `Pirates of the Caribbean,`" and I said, "Well, that`s the end of my career." And, you know, they sent me a script, and it was a good script, but a by-the-numbers pirate movie, which we`ve seen in the past. And I said, "I don`t know how to do this."

I gave it to two writers, Elliott and Rossio, came up with the idea to make the pirates cursed, and they turn to skeletons in the moonlight and have to return a treasure rather than steal a treasure. Fresh idea. I wanted to see that movie. I wanted to make that movie, and that`s how it all started for me.

BECK: I was reading some place about the movie industry now is debating whether or not to allow, on the day of the theatrical premiere, pay-per-view at home. So I think they were suggesting $50, and you could get the pay-per-view at home. And the big controversy is the movie theaters wouldn`t like that, et cetera, et cetera. Where do you stand on that?

BRUCKHEIMER: Well, I think it came from the cable companies who said that. I don`t think movie studios said that. They would love that to happen. Certain films you can do that with. Certain films that are not going to get the kind of release that "Pirates" get. You can release the DVD, you can release -- because they don`t have a huge audience. They`re smaller pictures.

BECK: Do you think there is a -- because you`re right on -- and your movies are a prime example of it. You need the big, huge screen. But, you know, people have big huge screens -- not that large, but they have it in their house. Do you see way in the future that there is -- that the movie theaters go away, that it is beamed to your house, some way or another?

BRUCKHEIMER: Do you have a kitchen in your house?

BECK: Yes.

BRUCKHEIMER: You do? Do you go out to dinner? Same thing. You want to get out.

BECK: Yes.

BRUCKHEIMER: You want to get out. You want to have that communal experience. I can`t see a 15-, 16-year-old kid taking his girlfriend into his living room...

(CROSSTALK)

BECK: ... 15- or 16-year-old to take his girlfriend to the living room with mom and dad in the kitchen.

BRUCKHEIMER: I don`t think so. I don`t think it`s going to happen.

BECK: Is this the last one? I mean, you`re a spin-off machine, man.

BRUCKHEIMER: We`re done. This is the end of the trilogy.

BECK: This ship will never sail?

BRUCKHEIMER: We tie up all the characters. It`s a very satisfying ending, with a little twist, of course.

BECK: Yes.

BRUCKHEIMER: So it`s a wonderful experience. And we`ve told the story, and it`s so great, because we pull the string from the first one. There is -- when you first meet Orlando Bloom, he`s making the sword, and this sword ends up in the third movie at the very end of it. So, I mean, it`s all that kind of fun stuff, because you`ll follow it through all three pictures, too. You don`t have to see the first two to enjoy the third, but it certainly helps.

BECK: That`s great. Jerry Bruckheimer...

BRUCKHEIMER: Thank you so much.

BECK: ... thank you very much. Premiere of "Pirates of the Caribbean: At World`s End" opens in theaters worldwide May 25th. Don`t miss it.

Thanks.

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BECK: You know, the other day John Edwards got into some heat when it was revealed UC Santa Cruz paid him $55,000 to give a speech on poverty. Now, you might think that he doesn`t know much about that subject, but you couldn`t be more wrong.

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BECK (voice-over): America, the most prosperous nation in the entire world. Yet for many Americans, every day is a struggle. We`re now living in a society of the haves and the have-notes. And unless something changes soon, the gap will continue to grow between the rich and the incredibly rich.

Yes, being wealthy isn`t what it used to be. It wasn`t long ago that the word "millionaire" actually meant something. Yes, it`s troubling times indeed for the moderately rich, and perhaps no one knows their plight better than presidential candidate John Edwards. With a personal fortune estimated at only $29.5 million, how humbling it must be for this former trial lawyer to now find himself surrounded by candidates whose incredibly excessive wealth Edwards can only dream about.

Then again, John Edwards is no stranger to adversity. During the 2004 campaign, his running mate was this man whose fortune, thanks to his wife and, of course, America`s love for ketchup, was estimated to be as much as $235 million. But somehow Edwards was able to keep a brave front, while deep inside no one could fathom the anguish and personal shame he must have been going through.

Yet perhaps it`s this very lack of incredible wealth that now makes Edwards a stronger, more complete candidate. He knows from experience what it`s like to make sacrifices. For instance, instead of owning his own private jet, he merely leases one, and he`s made a conscious decision to downsize, to live in a house like this, instead of like this.

Oh, sure, he`ll splurge on the occasional $400 haircut, but haven`t we all done that one time or another?

America, over the next year-and-a-half, you`ll hear a lot of candidates talking about poverty, but listen to those words closely when they come from John Edwards. There`s just no substitute for experience.

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BECK: How true it is. From New York, good night.

END