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Glenn Beck

Is Campaign Process too Long?; Why Won`t President Seal the Borders?; What`s in Store for "Sopranos" Finale?

Aired June 04, 2007 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, the politics of posturing.

REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This war has been based on lies.

SEN. JOE BIDEN (D-DE), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is ridiculous.

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Occasionally, they send Dick Cheney, and that`s hardly diplomatic.

SMERCONISH: But did any of the Democratic candidates pull away from the pack?

And terrorists continue to target us on our own turf. How what we`re not doing in places like Pakistan affects us here at home.

Plus, Paris to prison.

PARIS HILTON, HOTEL HEIRESS: I`m definitely scared.

SMERCONISH: How the notorious hotel heiress booked a trip from the red carpet to the big house.

All this and more tonight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SMERCONISH: Good evening. I`m Michael Smerconish from Philadelphia, in tonight for Glenn Beck. But rest assured, Glenn will be making special appearances throughout the program.

We begin with the Democratic primary debate. If you tuned in last night, then you were probably very well-rested for work this morning. For me watching it was like taking an Ambien with a Ny-Quil chaser. And I`m a political junkie!

Here`s the point tonight. The debate last evening, like all the other debates so far, was a total snooze and symptomatic of a campaign process that itself needs some analysis. And here`s how I get there.

Each debate, Republican and Democratic, has had no winner, no loser, and no blood. No wonder last night`s competition was just a TV appetizer for "The Sopranos`" main course.

The only people trying to convince you that the debates have been interesting thus far are the ones who need you to watch. But the fact is, they`re painfully dull.

And the problem isn`t merely with the debates: it`s with the entire campaign process. The presidential race is too long. It has too many candidates, too many debates, and it`s too front-end loaded. More debates don`t necessarily mean more substance.

How many minutes did each candidate really get last night: 10, 12? And more importantly, how did they use their time?

Senator John Edwards launched a two-tiered assault on the front- runners, not for how they voted, but how they didn`t say about their Iraq votes.

Senator Obama probably had the best line of the night when he said that John Edwards was 4 1/2 years too late to make that point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN EDWARDS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Senator Clinton and Senator Obama did not say anything about how they were going to vote until they appeared on the floor of the Senate, voted. They were among the last people to vote.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think it is important to lead. And I think, John, the fact is, is that I opposed this war from the start, so you`re about 4 1/2 years late on leadership on this issue. And I think it`s important not to play politics on something that is as critical and as difficult as this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: Senator Clinton, who sometimes has a problem with speech that sounds shrill, appeared to me to be in command and measured.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: The differences among us are minor. The differences between us and the Republicans are major, and I don`t want anybody in America to be confused.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: Now you`ve seen the highlight reel. That`s it. What else did you expect?

As to the big picture, the effect of having so many early primaries, many of them on a single day, is to silence the parlor talk in which each early voter used to have an opportunity to engage future presidential candidates. A virtue of those earlier presidential primaries used to be the up close experience many voters had with the candidates.

I worry that today`s one-shot primary election, where more than half of all votes will be cast on February 5, will let the candidates off the hook without submitting them to the kind of strict examination deserving of someone who wants to be the leader of the free world.

Superficiality now seems to reign. Twenty-second sound bites, not substantive conversations.

You know, Winston Churchill once said that nothing so tests the character of an individual as the running of elections. Well, not this one. I say send the candidates back to Iowa and New Hampshire, where they should be put through the meat grinder.

Joining me now for a little Monday morning debate quarterbacking is Democratic strategist and former advisor to Al Gore, Peter Fenn. Also with us is Christine O`Connell, president of the Faith and Flag Alliance.

Peter, let me begin with you. Do you agree with my assessment that, with regard to all the debates so far, not just last night, but those that came previous, there`s been no winner, there`s been no loser, and there`s been no blood?

PETER FENN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I tell you, Michael, I thought there was a very clear winner last night, and that was Wolf Blitzer. I thought Wolf Blitzer did a great job.

But seriously, I think these things are designed, Michael, not to have a lot of blood on the floor. And in fact, if there is blood on the floor, you usually have a problem, because the candidate that causes the blood from the other candidate is in trouble, as well.

So when you have these multi-candidate talk fests and they only get at the most eight, nine, ten minutes out of a two-hour debate, it becomes very difficult.

SMERCONISH: Christine, how does -- how does someone distinguish himself or herself from the pack in a debate such as last evening? And did anybody do so, from your perspective?

CHRISTINE O`CONNELL, PRESIDENT, FAITH AND FLAG ALLIANCE: I absolutely think somebody distinguished themselves, herself, and that was Hillary.

But first, let me say I think they all were appealing to the vegetarians in the Democratic Party, because this debate had no meat.

But I will agree with you that Hillary came off very eloquent, and if there was a winner, I would say it was Hillary. But you have to pay careful attention to what she did. She was very crafty in her message. She played to both sides. She appealed to the primary and the general audience. And I`ll give you a specific example.

When asked if the candidates supported English as the official language, Hillary was the only one who appeared to defend her position and clarify her position. But she did it in a deceptive way.

She said that the distinction between the national language and the official language would mean that, if we made English the official language, we couldn`t do things like print ballots in foreign languages. Well, wait, that sounds OK, but are we for printing ballots in foreign languages?

And let me explain why. To be able to vote, you must be a citizen. To become a citizen, you must pass an English proficiency test. Now, that is something Hillary is not for. So she had a very...

SMERCONISH: All right. My eyes are glazing over already, and all we`re doing is a debate recap at this point, with no disrespect to you.

I want to ask Peter. Peter, how do you handle the issue of Bill Clinton? Not only if you`re Hillary, but if you`re one of the other candidates? Because you know, his name came up in the Republican debate, and now he comes up and he dominates the Democratic debate, as well.

FENN: Well, I think Bill Clinton is an awfully popular figure amongst Democratic primary voters.

And I thought that the way Hillary handled her husband -- her husband`s administration was the right way to go, in that she complemented him. She talked about how they tried to go after Osama bin Laden.

Look, I think these things come down to who shows leadership, who`s cool under pressure, who is likable. And in that sense, you know, the conclusion that`s out today is correct, which is that -- that Hillary was likable. She was in command.

Barack, a little bit, was as well.

But, you know, one of the things, to go to your point, Michael, what we should probably have are debates on a single issue. In other words, an hour and a half on Iraq...

SMERCONISH: I mean, it`s a great idea.

FENN: ... an hour and a half on health care, an hour and a half on education.

SMERCONISH: One of -- one of my personal points of frustration -- and Christine, we`ll see what your reaction is to this, is the lack of dialogue. And I`m going to talk about this later tonight, relative to Pakistan and Musharraf.

Last night is the first debate where the name Musharraf was even uttered. I can`t believe there`s not some public discourse about the country and our relationship with the country where bin Laden is presumed to be hiding.

O`CONNELL: Just about every -- just like every issue that they talked about last night, the candidates responded to public opinion and lack of substance.

Again, we praised Hillary for talking about her husband. But let`s think about what she said in a practical application. She said if she became president, she would send her husband around the globe as a good will ambassador. Well, isn`t that exactly what he`s already doing?

And when he does that, he commands a six-figure price tag per speaking engagement. Is he going to give that up, to be on a government payroll?

SMERCONISH: That`s a good question, Christine.

Peter, do we get to a point in this campaign where they are presented, the Clintons, as a two-fer? And I guess there`s some pun intended there.

FENN: I think not. I mean, I think clearly, you kind of know what you`re getting with Clinton in terms of his skills.

But Christine raises a very important point. The president has said that he will be done with -- he`s made as much money as he`ll never need. He will not take another nickel for giving a speech, will not be sitting on boards making money.

So that when his wife is in the White House, that`s it, no-go. And I think that was a very smart thing for him to say.

O`CONNELL: So that`s the condition, if you elect -- is that an ultimatum? Is that a bribe? Is that -- if you elect my wife as president, I`ll give up these ridiculous speaking fees?

FENN: Stop making money. No, his point is...

O`CONNELL: If he believes that, why doesn`t he start now?

FENN: He said -- he said that. So anyway, but look...

O`CONNELL: But why doesn`t he start now?

FENN: Here`s the point about the Clintons. You have someone in Bill Clinton who is an extraordinarily gifted public speaker, an extraordinarily gifted diplomat, an extraordinarily gifted fighter for AIDS prevention out there. Why not use him?

SMERCONISH: He`s the best campaigner -- he`s the best campaigner in the field on either side of the aisle. And, Christine, I think even you would have to acknowledge that.

Christine, thank you.

And Peter, thank you, as well. We appreciate you being here.

Coming up, we`ll change gears from the Democrats to the Republicans. Big debate tomorrow night. And one of the main issues will likely be immigration. I`ll tell you why it`s an issue that`s splitting the Republican Party.

Plus, the latest terror bust is a reminder that radical extremists still want us dead. So why is no one talking about terrorist breeding grounds like Pakistan? We will.

And it`s day one in Paris Hilton`s jail sentence. Will she learn from her time in the cell or just go back to her partying ways? I`ll have all the latest details, so stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMERCONISH: Coming up a little later in the program, the arrests in that plan to blow up JFK Airport show that terrorists are still trying to kill us, but is the government doing enough in radical hotbeds like Pakistan to stop these threats? I`ll have some answers.

But first, the Senate returns from its vacation today to start the debate on the proposed immigration bill that seems to have the entire country up in arms.

Responding to Republicans who say that it`s far too easy on the 12 million illegal aliens already in this country, the president said, quote, "This bill isn`t amnesty. For those who call it amnesty, they`re just trying to, in my judgment, frighten people about the bill."

He`s right; this bill isn`t amnesty unless, of course, you know what the definition of amnesty is.

Last week, White House press secretary Tony Snow called into my radio show to do some more spinning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: All of those have to happen before you get a temporary worker problem and these other things.

SMERCONISH: But the clock is ticking, and they`re till crossing the border. And I don`t know why you just don`t go down and seal the situation now. And then let`s sort out parts two and three.

SNOW: You know -- because it`s a cop-out, that`s why.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: The president is treating us like we`re children, like we don`t know that the second we give them the power to grant amnesty to the illegals who are here already, they won`t forget about all their border security promises.

We`re sick of being played for fools, Mr. President, and we`re sick of our security and our identity being sold right out from under us. The message from the American people is clear: seal the borders. Why isn`t the president listening?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

Joining us now is one of this show`s foremost experts on illegal immigration, Glenn Beck, host of the GLENN BECK program.

GLENN BECK, HOST OF "GLENN BECK": Michael, I am so glad to hear you say it as plainly as you have, and I`ll tell you exactly why. I`m doing research now on a new book that we`re going to release this fall.

And I shared one of the chapters that we`re putting the final touches on. We still have more research to do on illegal immigration. And I shared it with somebody and I said, "I want you to read this, and I want you to tell me what you think. It, I`m telling you is the answer, and it resolves around SPP. Look it up on the Internet. All of this information is there.

It is not a conspiracy, but our government and the global corporations are working for an E.U.-style government, an E.U.-style North America.

And you cannot build a fence if you are trying to build the E.U. This fence will never be built. These borders will never be sealed, because it hurts business. And that`s what`s really going on, and that`s why we need to speak out as we, the people.

SMERCONISH: Well, it`s also an explanation, now that I hear you say this, as to why, when I said to Tony Snow last week, and I like Tony Snow. It was kind of a painful conversation. I said, "Why not just seal the borders? And then let`s have some rational discussion and debate."

Glenn, he said that that`s a cop-out. How is that a cop-out?

SMERCONISH: It`s not a cop-out, Michael. It`s not a cop-out. Here`s the thing: everybody in America, in their guts knows something`s wrong, but they can`t explain it.

It doesn`t make sense that -- I mean, common sense will tell you, look, we can deal with the amnesty thing. You know, all these polls that are coming out, they`re all starting to show that America is for it.

All of these newspapers, every commentator is saying America is really not against this bill. Yes, we are. We may be for certain sections of it and against other sections.

But here`s what America`s gut collectively tells them. Seal the borders, north and south. Our lives and the lives of people in major cities and in the heartland are at stake. Seal the borders.

SMERCONISH: I`m glad you brought that point up, because I want to show today`s "Washington Post", a quote in a story that said, you know, the tide is now turning in favor of those in support of this amnesty bill.

"But with a week of action set to begin today, the legislation`s champions say they believed that the voices of opposition, especially from conservatives, represent a small segment of public opinion."

Hey, Glenn, you interact with callers. You have a TV program. You`re out on the road. I mean, what are people telling you about this?

BECK: Oh, they`re pissed off. Michael, I`ve never seen anything like it. I have seen people who are angry about the 2000 election and everything else. This is -- the American people are not dissatisfied, the American people are not disillusioned. They`re angry. They are angry about this.

And listen, I have never, ever said this until my radio program today. Never have I said this, at least in recent memory, "Call Congress. Call the senators. Call your congressman. Call the White House. You must let your voice be heard on this."

I`ve never been a guy to whip up people and say, "Call." But you need them to hear your voice, whether it makes a difference or not. I personally don`t think it will, because I`m telling you, global corporations are the ones that are in charge of this, along with our government.

They all think they`re doing the patriotic thing by giving us an E.U.- style government and system of commerce by the -- by 2010. It`s right around the corner, and a fence does not fit in this.

SMERCONISH: Well, you know, it`s interesting. You`re focused on the global aspects of this, and I`m looking at the political dynamic. I`m convinced that the president, who it`s said, received 50 percent of the Hispanic vote when he first ran for governor of Texas, thinks and has deluded himself into thinking that somehow the future of the Republican Party lies in those Hispanic votes.

BECK: I believe, Michael, with everything in me, as I`m doing this research on this book, I`m telling you. I believe everything in me tells me it is so much bigger than that. It really, truly is.

People who may have the right intentions, saying America will not survive economically by 2020, 2025, if we don`t unite all of North America and parts of South America. And that`s what this is. Make it one giant security perimeter around our borders; but not American-Canadian-Mexican border, but all of North America.

SMERCONISH: I agree. And you know, Glenn, we only have 30 seconds, but the fellow with TB, whether he has it and communicable and so forth, I don`t know. But the reality is, he was able to come across the Canadian border. I mean...

BECK: I`m surprised he didn`t put his car in reverse after he crossed the border and said, "Hello, again, my name. Here`s my picture. (cough) Ring a bell?"

How could he get across the border?

SMERCONISH: We have to have this guy back. Put him in the Rolodex.

BECK: I listened to your opening monologue. They may not want me back. You`re doing a good job.

SMERCONISH: Thank you, Glenn.

BECK: You bet.

SMERCONISH: We`ll see you a little later in the program.

Coming up, "Sopranos" fans are craving the series finale next week, but can it deliver after last night`s heart-stopper?

Plus, she didn`t even collect $200. Paris Hilton, from the bright lights of the red carpets to the lights out in prison. Details you don`t want to miss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMERCONISH: Well, "The Sopranos" aired its penultimate episode last night, and -- spoiler alert -- Bobby Bacala got whacked, Silvio is in a coma, and Tony is on the run with a target on his back. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EDIE FALCO, ACTRESS: What are you talking about?

JAMES GANDOLFINI, ACTOR: Just temporarily until we get the situation under control.

FALCO: What does that mean?

GANDOLFINI: Help me out here. Don`t argue.

FALCO: You mean that they`re after you?

GANDOLFINI: We should split up. You and the kids go. I`ll be somewhere else.

FALCO: My God!

GANDOLFINI: Now, look, families don`t get touched. You know that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: So how will this episode rank in the annals of "Soprano" history? And how will it all come to an end next week?

Joining me now is Alan Sepinwall, from the "Newark Star-Ledger". By the way, Alan, it occurs for me you write for Tony`s newspaper. Because when he goes out in his bathrobe to the end of the drive, doesn`t he get the "Star-Ledger"?

ALAN SEPINWALL, "NEWARK STAR-LEDGER": Yes, it`s been great publicity for us over the years.

SMERCONISH: Did we just see the finale? I mean, come on, how does David Chase top what happened last night?

SEPINWALL: Well, I mean, he does this pretty much every season. The next to last episode is the one where all the big stuff happens, and then the last episode is time for a little reflection.

SMERCONISH: So you think that tomorrow night is one of those look back sort of things instead of Tony getting whacked -- I mean, next Sunday night -- or Phil getting whacked?

SEPINWALL: Well, I mean, I think that they`re definitely going to have to resolve what`s going on between Tony and Phil.

SMERCONISH: One of them has got to go, right?

SEPINWALL: Maybe, maybe not. Chase likes to surprise people.

SMERCONISH: You know what`s amazing to me about "The Sopranos" and the interest and so forth in this? The secrecy, the way in which the cast members -- and I think this speaks to their allegiance to the show. I`m unaware of anybody out there who has the definitive answer as to how it all ends.

SEPINWALL: Well, I don`t think everybody knows how it all ends. I`ve talked to a couple of the actors after they`ve gotten whacked, and they`ve said that for the last season, they`re only getting the pages of the script that they`re in.

SMERCONISH: The thing that would pain me, Alan, would be to see Meadow and A.J. get taken out. And I know you`ve got some theory as to how that conceivably is in the cards. What`s the explanation?

SEPINWALL: Well, if you remember the start of last season, they had that very bizarre montage about the Egyptian theories, and the seven souls. And every single person in that montage who was part of the mafia is now dead. Vito is dead, Ray is dead, Eugene is dead. And Bacala died last night.

The people who aren`t dead yet are A.J. and Meadow and Carmela.

SMERCONISH: I`m fooling myself if I think I`m getting closure on the pine barons, or Melfi`s rapist, right? I should give it up already?

SEPINWALL: Well -- maybe they`ll come and team up and take out Phil for Tony. But Chase has said that they are not coming back under any circumstances, and neither is Furio.

SMERCONISH: You know, one of the other aspects of last night that was unbelievable was the -- what was that, like an intervention that the Bogdonavich character had for Doctor Melfi, where all the shrinks get together and they`re trying to talk her out of treating him?

SEPINWALL: He`s one of the more loathsome characters they`ve ever had on the show, and he`s just such a snob and such a bully. And he just trapped her there and publicly humiliated her. But at the same time, he had a point.

SMERCONISH: See, that was another thing. I always figured that Tony was going to hook up with Melfi before it all ended, but I was wrong about that. I`ve been wrong about everything. I`m the last guy -- that`s why you`re here.

SEPINWALL: I`m wrong on pretty much everything, too. I had the theory for months and months that the show was going to end very quietly, not a lot of carnage, and last night shot that all to hell.

SMERCONISH: But I have to tell you something. I`ve read your coverage every week this season. It`s phenomenal.

SEPINWALL: Thank you.

SMERCONISH: Alan Sepinwall at the "Star-Ledger". If you`re really into it, and we all are, that`s where you go. Thank you, Alan.

SEPINWALL: Thank you.

SMERCONISH: Up next, "The Real Story" on the plan to blow up JFK Airport. I`ll tell you why part of the problem lies in our relationship with Pakistan. Now stick around for this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMERCONISH: The big headline today, besides politics, terror and congressional corruption, is Paris Hilton going to jail. Will the hospitality heiress be shown any on the inside? Details in just a bit.

But first, tonight`s "Real Story," where we cut through the media`s spin to figure out why a story is actually important to you. For a second time in less than a month, an undercover informant has helped authorities disrupt a home-grown terror plot in the Northeast. This time, it was a plan to blow up fuel pipelines running underneath populated neighborhoods and eventually winding up at JFK Airport.

Roslynn Mauskopf, the United States attorney in Brooklyn, described the attacks` potentials at a Saturday news conference.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROSLYNN MAUSKOPF, U.S. ATTORNEY: The devastation that would be caused had this plot succeeded is just unthinkable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: It may be unthinkable, and it certainly is frightening, but while every new foiled plot to kill innocent Americans grabs our attention and takes over the headlines, the real story is that the man responsible for 9/11, the one attack that did succeed, is still at large. Most people understand that Osama bin Laden - remember him - is still on the run and presumed to be hiding in Pakistan, but what many folks don`t understand is exactly who`s supposed to be looking for him. The United States has entrusted Pakistan`s leader, General Pervez Musharraf, with organizing the hunt for bin Laden inside Pakistan, and we`re apparently paying them $80 million a month to do it, over $5.6 billion so far. Essentially, we`ve outsourced the job, the hunt for bin Laden.

And like most things that we don`t do ourselves, it`s not being done right. For $80 million a month, we don`t even get a set of performance benchmarks or goals. Pakistan gets the money whether they look for bin Laden or not. And, unfortunately, they`re probably not looking, at least not in the right areas, because General Musharraf struck an accord with tribal warlords last fall whereby he agreed to remove the Pakistani army from the northwest part of his country, the same area where bin Laden is believed to have crossed from Afghanistan, and to cede all control to those warlords.

So who`s left to look for him? And even more importantly, why is no one, not our president, nor our presidential candidates, even talking about this issue?

Last night`s Democratic debate was the first time in four presidential debates that Pakistan and Musharraf were even referenced. That`s how far we`ve taken our eyes off the ball. Bin Laden may be out of sight, but we owe it to the 3,000 victims of September 11 to never let him be out of mind.

Christine Fair is a senior research associate at the U.S. Institute of Peace and a leading expert on Pakistan. You have all the credentials; I just have the opinion. My opinion is: We`ve outsourced the hunt for bin Laden. Do you agree?

CHRISTINE FAIR, U.S. INSTITUTE OF PEACE: Well, yes and no. I mean, I first want to sort of take a step back. Since 9/11, we`ve given Pakistan about $10 billion in overt money and maybe as much as covert funds, as well. But what we`re getting for that money is not, as you`ve described, an explicit agenda to go out and capture specific individuals.

What we`re getting for that money is the right to offload our war materiel at the base in Karachi, the naval base. We`re also allowed to transit that war materiel through ground and through air routes into Afghanistan. This is critical. No one really thinks about the necessities of being able to offload that materiel at Karachi and get it to Afghanistan. Without that support, the war is virtually impossible.

SMERCONISH: But, Christine, if, as presumed, Osama bin Laden is hiding with Ayman al-Zawahiri in northern Waziristan and we have no military presence there, Musharraf is the man we`re relying on, he, in turn, is relying on those tribal warlords, who themselves say that, you know, a visitor to these parts is someone that we`re not going to blank with, if you`ll pardon me?

FAIR: Well, hold on. You still have to keep the eye on the big picture. The United States` government -- I think to its peril -- has chosen to deeply personalize this relationship. We do not have a relationship with Pakistan; we have a relationship with Musharraf.

And you have to remember that, every year that Musharraf continues on in this way, domestic opposition to his holding two posts -- which is unconstitutional, according to the Pakistani constitution -- grows. We`ve seen this since he fired the Supreme Court justice, again to continue to bolster his position.

So the U.S. government is putting this money -- 90 percent of that $10 billion goes to the Pakistan armed forces. And that`s to keep them happy with President Musharraf, because keeping the army happy is the key to keeping Musharraf in power.

SMERCONISH: Well, one final question for Christine Fair, because it`s often said, you know, the devil you know is better than the devil that you don`t know, and I`ve often heard it said relative to Musharraf that he could easily be replaced with some brand of radical Islam. But isn`t the reality that, in Pakistan, there`s no history of radical -- you say it.

FAIR: There`s absolutely no chance. That is an absolute canard. But the point -- I`d like to go back to the point you began with. We have mutually incompatible goals. We cannot have an objective that singularly focuses upon Musharraf`s sanctity when we have a larger issue of a very serious threat of terrorism posed by specific individuals, Zawahiri, of course, bin Laden, in the areas possibly between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

If the United States were to launch, for example, missile strikes, again, as they did in Bajaur in January of 2006, these actions actually destabilize Musharraf, because, after all, Pakistan is a sovereign state, and Pakistanis aren`t very happy with the U.S. policy towards Musharraf. I think it`s very clear, if you look at what`s been going on, Pakistanis feel that we`re supporting Musharraf against all of Pakistan. So these are contradictory objectives.

SMERCONISH: Christine, this is the kind of discourse that the presidential candidates should be having in these debates.

FAIR: I agree.

SMERCONISH: And I pray that tomorrow night it comes up in the GOP debate. And thank you so much for being here.

FAIR: Thank you. Have a wonderful evening. Thank you.

SMERCONISH: Thank you.

From someone I`d like to see dead to someone who`s seen plenty of others die, Jack Kevorkian, otherwise known as Dr. Death, a man who says he`s assisted in 130 suicides over the years. He was released from prison last Friday. He`d spent the last eight years in prison after being convicted of second-degree murder for assisting a terminally ill man commit suicide.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE WALLACE, "60 MINUTES" CORRESPONDENT: Do you regret helping Tom Youk?

JACK KEVORKIAN, DOCTOR WHO ASSISTED SUICIDE: No, why would I regret that?

WALLACE: But he was a man, and it was a compassionate murder, but you murdered him.

KEVORKIAN: It was a man whose life didn`t measure up anymore.

WALLACE: Uh-huh.

KEVORKIAN: You know, David Hume said it: No man ever threw away a life while it was worth keeping.

WALLACE: But you`re the judge of whether it`s worth keeping?

KEVORKIAN: No, the patient`s the judge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: Although voters in many states appear to agree with Dr. Kevorkian`s stance, the fact remains that, even though the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the state`s ability to pass physician-assisted suicide laws, only Oregon has done so. Why?

Well, the real story is that, I think, it`s because Dr. Kevorkian hasn`t exactly been the best-looking spokesman for the cause. If you want to sell shampoo, you hire somebody with nice hair, not a guy like me. But if you want to sell death, you don`t get someone who looks like it. Kevorkian has about the same likeability as Ichabod Crane from the "Legend of Sleepy Hollow." He`s just creepy and not exactly appealing to the mainstream public.

It`s possible that the best thing Kevorkian ever did for his cause was to go to prison, because now maybe someone else, someone who looks less like they actually assisted in suicides, will pick up the baton.

Jeffrey Fieger is Jack Kevorkian`s former attorney. Hey, Jeffrey, welcome back to the program. Is it possible that he`s just not the best poster child for this argument?

GEOFF FIEGER, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR KEVORKIAN: Yes, if that was the issue, but it`s not.

SMERCONISH: Well, what is?

FIEGER: Well, first of all, the issue isn`t having a poster child and then getting enough people to vote on it. I think that, if you simply put it up for a vote, only very individual states like Oregon will vote for it. Other states, because of the participation of the radical right, the religious right, will never vote on it.

I don`t care if you have Marcus Welby leading the charge; it`s not going to happen like that, because you understand, the same forces that are against the right of individuals not to suffer at the end of their lives because God ordains them to suffer are the same people who want to teach creationism under the name of intelligent design.

SMERCONISH: But wait a minute. I happen to be for the teaching of intelligent design. But the Schiavo...

FIEGER: That`s caused creationism.

SMERCONISH: ... the Schiavo case is, I think, largely regarded as an abysmal attempt by the feds to get involved with someone`s decision as to whether they wanted to live or die.

FIEGER: At the behest of the religious right. You see, everyone thought they were going to make political fodder out of keeping Terri Schiavo alive, despite the fact her brain was mush.

SMERCONISH: But why, if it backfired on the religious right, didn`t that give the impetus for legislation like you`re describing to pass in 49 other states?

FIEGER: Well, no, not really, because if you put the Bill of Rights up for a vote, it wouldn`t pass. If you put civil rights litigation or legislation up for a vote, it wouldn`t pass. It doesn`t happen like that. The people who come out to vote in most states are less than 50 percent, and then a small minority, committed minority win. And unless you`re in Oregon, who`s a relatively progressive state, it won`t happen like that.

SMERCONISH: My own view is that, if you`re of sound mind with a terminal illness, and you make that God-awful decision to check out, no government should stand in your way.

FIEGER: Well, of course. That`s a very conservative belief.

SMERCONISH: OK, so that`s the point...

FIEGER: The right not to suffer and the right not to have government tell you what to do. But they portray it as, if you allow this, then the doctors will kill you. Well, let me ask you a question now. In virtually every state that you can think of, when doctors kill you involuntarily through malpractice, drunk in the operating room, the legislators and the voters pass laws that prevent you from suing them.

SMERCONISH: Well, it`s funny that you bring this up, because when I get -- and I`ll get some hate mail from what I`ve just said -- people say to me, you know, "You have a horrible position," and it`s mostly from conservatives. And I say, "But I have the most conservative of views." My view is stay out of my world.

FIEGER: That`s a real conservative. But today, "conservative" doesn`t mean "conservative." Today, conservative means, "God tells you what to do." It doesn`t mean that government doesn`t tell you what to do.

SMERCONISH: Is Kevorkian out of business for good or just until his probation`s over?

FIEGER: Well, you know, I just talked to him about five minutes ago. And he said, "Jeff, I watched you on television and I`d like you to say that I`m not going to do it anymore, because I gave my word." And more to the point, he said, "It wouldn`t mean anything anymore." So he may be serious.

SMERCONISH: Jeff, thanks for being here. We appreciate it. And that`s "The Real Story" tonight.

Up next, Paris Hilton is off to jail, and it`s probably the only event she`s shown up for on time all year. I`ll have all the latest details, so stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMERCONISH: The Democrats swept into Congress on a wave of anti- corruption sentiment, voters basically fed up with bribes and scandal. Oops, now one of their own could be facing as many as 200 years in the slammer, Congressman William Jefferson, indicted for racketeering and bribery. That`s in the mix for tomorrow`s program.

But first, to the less substantive but definitely more sensational news, Paris Hilton attended the MTV Movie Awards last night, after which she went directly to jail. During her interviews on the red carpet, Paris seemed genuinely contrite and willing to face the music for violating the terms of her probation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PARIS HILTON, HOTEL HEIRESS: I`m really sorry, and I`m ready to serve (INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: Will prison change her? Or will she come out in three weeks and return to the party circuit? Joining me now is Kim Serafin, senior editor of "InTouch Weekly." Kim, I am Mr. Out of Touch Weekly. Remind me, why is she going to the slammer?

KIM SERAFIN, "INTOUCH WEEKLY": She`s going to jail for violating her probation. She had gotten a DUI, and then she drove on a suspended license.

SMERCONISH: All right. And what does she do for a living?

SERAFIN: She is a socialite. She`s a celebutante, as we call them out here in Hollywood, although she has had a -- she did have a big single song. She had an album out. She is on "The Simple Life." A lot of people know her from that. She is an actress. She`s appeared in various movies, like "House of Wax." She is trying to pursue her acting career now, but she`s known for being famous. I mean, I think Even she would probably admit that in a lot of ways.

SMERCONISH: I want to show to you her mug shot, and maybe we can even do a comparison, because she`s got a winner. You know, if the world of mug shots is sort of Nick Nolte at one extreme and Mel Gibson at another. There`s Nolte. And Gibson looked good. He even had the curly-q thing going with his hair right in the middle. There we go. I think Paris is closer to Gibson than she is to Nolte.

SERAFIN: Yes, she knows how to pose on a red carpet, so she definitely knows how to give her best angle. And she had just come from the red carpet, actually, as you mentioned, at the MTV awards. So she had her hair extensions in, and she had her makeup done. And I`m sure she knew this was coming. I mean, this is no big surprise that she was going to have to get a mug shot taken.

SMERCONISH: Is this some kind of a country club jail? I mean, what`s going to be the deal on a day-to-day basis?

SERAFIN: No, what they are saying -- and they said this repeatedly -- is that she is not getting any special attention, any special privileges at all. She is, though -- we did find out she doesn`t have a roommate. They initially had prescreened a woman who had been in for reckless driving, but now she`s going to be by herself in this jail cell. She`ll be there, apparently, approximately 23 hours a day in solitary confinement. She`ll be allowed out for an hour to watch TV, make some phone calls.

But this is not in any way a special privileges kind of jail, although she is in a special section of the jail that is reserved for, you know, celebrities, public officials, because there had been a lot of reports coming out of the jail. You know, there were inmates that were saying Paris better watch her back. And I think they do need to separate her, obviously, from the general public, because of her reputation, because of who she is.

SMERCONISH: It takes on a whole new meaning in prison. Hey, no BlackBerry, no Internet, no cell phone?

SERAFIN: No BlackBerry, no Sidekick, nope, none of that. But, you know, as you did mention, she did really seem genuinely contrite on the red carpet. She did a series of interviews last night, saying, "I`m ready to take responsibility for my actions. I`ve had a lot of time to reflect on what happened, and I hope that, if something positive comes out of it, is that I`ll be an example for young people and decisions that they make." So I think this is a different side of Paris that a lot of people were surprised to see in a lot of ways.

SMERCONISH: In the midst of that MTV awards show, somebody trashed her? And then there was speculation that maybe she was leaving because she was hosed, but it turns out now she was really leaving just to report to jail?

SERAFIN: Right. Well, Sarah Silverman, the very un-P.C. comic, very funny woman, was the host of the MTV awards, so she did make some comments right in her opening monologue about Paris Hilton is going to be leaving early to go to jail, and some other things that I can`t repeat on this show that she said. And the camera panned to Paris, and there was a lot of talk about, "Whoa, Paris wasn`t really laughing, she seemed disturbed." And the fact is, she looked the way she looked because she knew that, in a few hours, she would be turning herself into jail.

But, you know, here`s the thing. Paris is watched like she`s in a fish bowl all the time. If she had laughed at it, people would have said, "Oh, she`s not taking this seriously and she`s not taking responsibility for her actions." So it`s kind of like, she`s darned if she does, darned if she doesn`t, so...

SMERCONISH: Look, I`m in need of a subscription to "InTouch Weekly." That`s the one lesson that I have learned in -- you know, I don`t know who any of these people are.

SERAFIN: I was going to say, Michael, everyone seems to know about this. You`re asking very basic questions. You`ve got to get more with it here.

SMERCONISH: I am a loser. I know everything about the "Sopranos." I know nothing about Paris Hilton. Thank you for being here, because you obviously know your stuff.

SERAFIN: Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me.

SMERCONISH: Thank you. It was a tough weekend for some in baseball. I`ll tell you why this manager had a meltdown on the field. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMERCONISH: If you`re a sports fan, then you know there was a lot of crazy video of athletes gone wild this weekend. First, there was the dugout fight between Chicago Cubs teammates Michael Barrett and Carlos Zambrano. Keep in mind, these guys are on the same team.

The following day, Cubs` manager Lou Piniella had a calm disagreement with an umpire. And, of course, who could forget what happened at Sunday`s Milwaukee Brewers-Florida Marlins game, when absolute pandemonium erupted after a disputed third strike call?

But these all pale in comparison to what happened at a Braves minor league game, when manager Phillip Wellman did this. Not only did he throw bases and kick dirt every where, but he eventually started doing a belly crawl through the infield grass.

Joining me once again is noted sports enthusiast and frequent guest of the program, Glenn Beck.

GLENN BECK, HOST: This is some of my favorite footage. I am not a sports fan. You know who`s a sports hero for me? The guy who eats all the hot dogs. But this is some of the best sports footage I have ever seen.

SMERCONISH: What is it, like full moon in baseball? I mean, (INAUDIBLE) all happening this weekend?

BECK: I mean, Michael, they`re people that wear caps and short pants to work. I mean, we expect a lot from these guys? Come on.

SMERCONISH: Hey, what we left out, and I love it, is, you know, A-Rod getting heckled by Red Sox fan who had these blondie masks in front of...

BECK: Oh, was that tremendous?

SMERCONISH: How do you get up to the plate and maintain your concentration?

BECK: I don`t know. It`s just tremendous. You know, I`m really torn, because this is not the way we should behave, but that`s just entertaining stuff there.

SMERCONISH: I think it`s the Paris-fication -- is that a word -- of Major League Baseball.

BECK: No, but it should be. It should be. I mean, it`s really -- you know, the problem is, you know, you bring your kids to a baseball game, and, you know, you want to be able to teach your kids how to behave. And that`s just no way to behave.

SMERCONISH: You`re right.

BECK: And it`s really -- I mean, these guys, here they are, you really want to learn a lesson. Kids, if you`re watching this, and I apologize for saying all this is funny. What you need to learn from this is just hire an attorney and sue the person you disagree with, like everybody else in America.

SMERCONISH: Oh, come on. Hey, how`s the tour going?

BECK: It`s going well. Tonight, we`re at the Kimmel Center here in Philadelphia, and then I think we`re in Syracuse this week. I`m not really even sure where we go next.

SMERCONISH: Like a rock star.

BECK: Yes, it`s a lot of fun, really, really funny, funny concert.

SMERCONISH: Good for you. Hey, thank you, Glenn. We`ll see you tomorrow. Break a leg in Philly tonight, and thanks to all of you for joining us this evening. I`m Michael Smerconish from Philadelphia.

END