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Glenn Beck
Race for President Heats Up; Man Sues Drycleaners for $54 Million for Lost Pants
Aired June 18, 2007 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOE PAGLIARULO, GUEST HOST: Tonight, the race for president heats up. Hillary`s lead is in now in double digits while this "Law and Order" star is creating disorder for the Republicans.
Plus, what happens when a man loses his pants? I`ll have the story of one man suing his drycleaners for $54 million.
And our obsession with Paris. If nobody cares about her, then why does the media continue to cover her every move? All this and more, tonight.
Good evening, I`m Joe Pagliarulo, Joe Pags in for Glenn Beck. He`ll be back tomorrow. Don`t worry. But tonight, we start with the 2008 presidential election which isn`t until, well, the end of 2008.
But the polls keep on coming in. According to the latest from "USA Today" and Gallup, New York Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton now has a double digit lead over Illinois Senator Barack Obama. Her 33 percent to his 21 percent. Just two weeks ago, the two were in a virtual tie.
As for the Republicans, the same poll shows former Tennessee Senator Fred Thompson with 19 percent, now running second behind Rudy Giuliani who has 38 percent. Not bad considering that Thompson, the politician turned actor turned politician has yet to officially even enter the race.
Just to show you how accurate this process really is, a different poll conducted by Mason Dixon shows Obama with a strong lead over Clinton and Republican Fred Thompson running ahead of Rudy. Did I mention he`s not even running yet?
On top of all of this, we have to consider Hillary`s high negativity ratings and the story that shows most voters want to vote for a Democrat, just not any of the ones that happen to be running today.
The bottom line is these things - it`s a big mess and it`s only June of 2007.
Here to help us wade through the numbers to find out if any of this actually means anything at all, Republican strategist Amy Holmes and Democratic analyst Julie Roginsky.
All right. Julie, let`s start with you. Welcome to you both. Now when it comes to Obama and Clinton, who if anybody is really on top and is this anything more than really just a popularity contest right now?
JULIE ROGINSKY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, it`s a popularity contest in the sense we`ve got, what, 18 months to go before the election. I`m bored already. But I will say, look, the Mason Dixon poll that you were referring to I believe is a South Carolina only poll. In the Democratic primary African Americans have a preponderance of a voice in South Carolina. He is African American, which is why I think his numbers are so strong. But overwhelmingly I think Hillary Clinton is right now is the favorite to win. But four years ago Howard Dean was the favorite to win at this point in the election. So for all we know there is going to be someone who is going to emerge that we don`t even know about yet on both sides.
PAGLIARULO: With Howard Dean leading four years ago, I want to go waahhhh. I don`t know why, I want to say that every single day.
ROGINSKY: You`re going to want to really scream when Hillary Clinton or another Democrat becomes the next president, which is what`s going to happen, so ...
PAGLIARULO: It`s interesting to watch all this unfold. When it comes to Hillary Clinton, though, and Amy, I`ll throw this at you, Hillary Clinton is being called the -- well, the wife of the first black president. Does Obama trump that somehow?
AMY HOLMES, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, Julie is right, we`re a long way away from the first primary. But if you look at Hillary`s numbers, what`s interesting is while she has consistently had a lead over Obama, that poll that showed them neck in neck was really sort of an outlier.
She`s consistently had a lead but there`s a lot of ambivalence among Democrats about Hillary. They know she has 100 percent name I.D. but her negatives are always around 50, 51.
PAGLIARULO: They`re off the chart - I mean, 50-50 people don`t like them.
ROGINSKY: They .
HOLMES: Hold on, Julie. Those numbers are really hard to move. If you look at Obama, another indicator of the ambivalence about Hillary, then he had twice as many donors as Hillary. And if you look at those early primary states, Obama is neck in neck with Hillary in South Carolina in many of the polls.
PAGLIARULO: I`ve got to talk on Republican for a second, here, too. The whole Hillary-Obama thing, I don`t think that`s going to work its way out until the convention. I really honestly don`t think it will. But you have got Fred Thompson who is rating off the charts and hasn`t announced he is even running yet.
Is this sort of the Reagan factor where he`s an actor who can communicate well and the popularity kicks in here?
HOLMES: The key, Joe, is he`s still not thrown his cowboy hat in the ring. And once he does, as Julie knows, that`s when the press starts attacking.
We`re in the buildup phase right now with Fred Thompson, but once he`s officially in that race, they`re going to be poring through his senate record. There`s already stories that he`s not as conservative as he`s been presenting himself. So there`s still a long way to go.
PAGLIARULO: Well, he`s a lot more conservative than Rudy Giuliani is. Julie, how do you see this? Do you care who is the Republican is?
ROGINSKY: Sure, I care. But I`ll tell you something about Rudy Giuliani. You are talking about ambivalence from Democrats towards Hillary, you`ve got James Dobson, you`ve got Gary Bauer, you`ve got a whole host of people, the same guys that happened to elect George Bush, the so- called Republican base, saying point blank they`re not going to vote for Rudy Giuliani. They`ll vote for a third party candidate if he`s the Republican nominee.
I`m Rudy Giuliani, I`m the Republican Party and I want to retain the White House, I`m going to be real worried about that. And you have prominent Republicans on the right side of the Republican Party, the right wing saying they`re not voting for Rudy.
And that`s a big problem for them. As for Arthur Branch, the guy that purports to be the next D.A.-slash-president, we don`t know anything about him other than he was on "Law and Order" for a few years, people think of him as the D.A. from New York. I worked in the Senate when he was down there, Fred Thompson, I don`t recall him doing anything differently from John McCain, for example. Very pro McCain Feingold. On abortion we know he`s sort of in the Mitt Romney mold of being for one thing one day, against something else the next.
We don`t know much about Fred Thompson.
PAGLIARULO: I think he`s right of John McCain. I mean, I could argue that all day long. But I want to go to third party - not even third party, but also-rans like John Edwards. Amy, is John Edwards somebody who worries you as a conservative?
HOLMES: Oh, absolutely not. One of the most striking things about all of the polling data is how irrelevant John Edwards has become to this campaign.
PAGLIARULO: But he has got gorgeous hair, though. Gorgeous hair.
HOLMES: Well, that`s part of the problem, he spends $400 a haircut on it. Here he is. He`s doing poorly in South Carolina, which is next door to his home state where that`s supposed to be one of his strengths, in Iowa Hillary and Obama are already nipping at his heels. John Edwards, his numbers are in the low teens and he`s had lackluster performances in the three debates. And really what people remember him for right now is the $400 haircut, the "I Feel Pretty" video of his wife futzing with his hair and a 26,000 square foot mention when he`s supposed to be the candidate for fighting poverty.
PAGLIARULO: And he spends (ph) $50,000 to speak on poverty.
ROGINSKY: Well, Rudy .
PAGLIARULO: Before you defend him I`m going to give you a chance to get somebody with nice hair on the Republican side. Mitt Romney .
ROGINSKY: I`m trying to think but since Rudy got rid of his comb over, I`m a little hard-pressed to find out .
PAGLIARULO: Oh, come on. Leave the poor guy alone.
ROGINSKY: Mitt Romney has wonderful hair. He should go be a model for "G.Q." I`m not so sure he should be the leader of the free world if he can`t decide what he is on any given day, a little bipolar in his positions, but look, I`ll say this about .
PAGLIARULO: Dare you call him a flip-floppper? Is that .
ROGINSKY: I`ll actually call him bipolar. I`ll call him worse than a flip-flopper. I don`t know what he believes. I don`t even know if he knows what he believes anymore.
PAGLIARULO: I`m pretty clear on what he believes.
ROGINSKY: I`m not.
PAGLIARULO: I got to tell you something, I think that Mitt Romney -- I don`t think we have enough time, but I think Mitt Romney is actually a pretty good conservative candidate.
ROGINSKY: He is?
PAGLIARULO: Fred Thompson isn`t in there. Which is kind of odd to me.
I think you should be afraid, Julie, to be honest with you, you should be afraid of Rudy Giuliani. As you mentioned earlier, this guy is too liberal for me. I honestly right now don`t look at Giuliani as my guy.
ROGINSKY: And that`s why Giuliani is not going to win this election. Because guys like you and guys to the right of you have said point blank that they`re not voting for Rudy Giuliani.
HOLMES: Julie, we`ve had this argument before.
PAGLIARULO: Amy, would you -- Could you back Giuliani or not?
HOLMES: Could I back Giuliani?
PAGLIARULO: Yes.
HOLMES: Absolutely. I think Giuliani`s a very impressive candidate. I happen to be pro choice. So that`s not an issue for me. But Julie and I have had had this argument before. Giuliani in all the polling among Republican voters, he is way ahead of the other candidates.
ROGINSKY: The Republicans for (ph) now.
HOLMES: Amongst evangelicals, 30 percent of them support him. So Giuliani, it`s wishful thinking ...
PAGLIARULO: I think they support him, though.
ROGINSKY: Thirty percent .
PAGLIARULO: Hey, Julie, I`ll give you the last word. Go ahead.
ROGINSKY: Thirty percent of evangelicals support him, that means 70 percent of evangelicals don`t. You have a third party candidate, those guys are going to go for somebody else. You`ve got James Dobson, you`ve got Gary Bauer, you`ve got - the Republican Party has been .
HOLMES: In politics, you always have to ask the question, compared to whom?
ROGINSKY: Compared to the third party guy who is going to run.
PAGLIARULO: I got to tell you something, Amy, Julie, thank you so much. A very lively debate. I have got to tell you something. I think it is about against whom, but not yet. I think right now it`s a popularity contest. But ladies, thank you very much for that.
Coming up, tough week for Duke prosecutor Mike Nifong. Not only will he be disbarred, but now he`s facing a lawsuit from at least one of the lacrosse players he tried to prosecute.
Plus the new boss at the U.N. says all the murder and mayhem in Darfur was triggered by -- wait for it -- global warming. I`ll have all the details.
And despite all the major issues we face, what`s the one story America just can`t get enough of? It`s Paris Hilton. I`ll look at our fascination with the heir-head. Don`t go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO: Welcome back. I`m Joe Pagliarulo, Joe Pags in for Glenn Beck who returns to the airwaves tomorrow. Coming up later in the program, this just in, Paris Hilton is still locked up and she`s cold. Yes, you heard it right. That is one of the top stories in the nation today. I`ll look at why America is obsessed with Paris.
But first, prosecutor Mike Nifong once made the grand proclamation he would not allow Durham, North Carolina, to be known for quote "a bunch of lacrosse players from Duke raping a black girl."
Well, Mikey, you got your way, at the end of the day you ended up being dead wrong and you got disbarred and you incited the kind of racial tension not seen in years. Nice work, genius. I guess this whole stunt aimed at getting re-elected wasn`t a great idea after all, was it?
B.J. Bernstein is a defense attorney and former prosecutor. B.J., was this punishment enough for Nifong or did he get off a little bit easy here?
B.J. BERNSTEIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, I mean, it`s huge. Disbarment is the ultimate for a lawyer. Remember, he`s spent his entire career, you go to not only undergraduate but law school and this is quite a blow.
PAGLIARULO: But I have to wonder, and I think most people in America are wondering, isn`t there a criminal prosecution that can be taken against this guy? Hiding evidence. Had he gone forward with the prosecution and he found them guilty, they might have been imprisoned a year or two before anybody found out he was hiding this evidence that clearly exonerated them.
BERNSTEIN: Well, possibly there could be room for criminal contempt. But I think what we`re seeing now is the resolution of this case kind of quickly, now that the disbarment has occurred and as each thing happens including a settlement announced with Duke University.
PAGLIARULO: He incited racial fences as I mentioned in the opening to this segment and he did that on purpose. This is a predominantly African American area in Durham, North Carolina, he was running for re-election. He did this I believe solely and clearly for political reasons to get re- elected. He had a media storm come down on him that a lot of people are feeling badly about, but guess what? Mike Nifong brought this on himself. This guy -- at least civilly he`s libel here, isn`t he?
BERNSTEIN: Certainly it, but then the question becomes what are you going to get from him? What kind of money? When it gets down to civil cases, how much money does the defendant have to take? And so in terms of ruining someone`s career, ruing someone`s reputation, the word Nifong will forever be synonymous with what`s wrong with our justice system.
PAGLIARULO: Well, I can understand that. But at the same time if you Google Collin Finnerty or David Evans or Reade Seligmann in 10 years if you Google these guys` names, they`re only going to come up with the three that were accused of raping a stripper at a party at Duke University. What about them? What about their future?
BERNSTEIN: You`re dead on right. Forever they`re going to know this and that`s where the huge tragedy of this is, is because of an overzealous prosecutor, and Lord knows we need to protect our prosecutors, they`re very important in our justice system. But when they`re bad and when they`re this bad and when they do things wrong, they ruin lives in ways that can never, ever be recovered. And the families are justifiably angry. And they`re right about the ruined reputation of their boys, forever ruined.
PAGLIARULO: I`m going to ask you about the alleged victim, the accuser, the woman who made it all up, whatever you want to call her. Many people have said when you said a little while ago, what do you get from her?
But this is somebody who lied about what happened to her. This is somebody who -- they found DNA of a couple other guys on her clothing and nothing from the Duke lacrosse guys. Clearly it was a money grab and everybody says leave her alone, she has got mental illness. Aren`t there repercussions for her? Shouldn`t somebody be able to go after her criminally if you can`t get anything punitively, or in a civil litigation, can`t you go after her criminally?
Doesn`t she have to stand -- I`ll compare it this way. Tell me if you think I`m nuts here. The run away bride, she was brought up on charges for filing a false case. She said that an Hispanic person kidnapped her and took her to Las Vegas. Took her to New Mexico. She`s doing community service, she is doing time. Why does this woman get off?
BERNSTEIN: I hear what you`re saying but the attorney general did intimate that there`s something very wrong with this woman, there`s some sort of mental health issue and the truth is if we went against everybody in that particular situation, we would never be able to get through all the cases.
PAGLIARULO: But nobody knew that going in that she had this history of mental illness? Nifong had to know, right?
BERNSTEIN: That`s where Nifong totally goes wrong. You have to look at the victim. What he did was say here, this is an allegation, I can take advantage of it. I`m going to ignore certain evidence because I`ve already set my foot out. Remember, he made a huge mistake when instead of arresting these kids like any other person after a police investigation he went straight to a grand jury. He was after them and he is paying the price.
PAGLIARULO: B.J., thanks for the knowledge. Always appreciate it.
And now in other legal news, a ruling is expected soon in a $54 million lawsuit filed by administrative law Judge Roy Pearson in Washington, DC against a drycleaner who, brace yourselves, lost the guy`s pants. Yes, pair of pants is at the center of this $54 million lawsuit.
Where did this guy by these pants? Were they gold-studded? Diamonds maybe? Pearson is alleging that the dry cleaners returned the wrong pair of pants to him and along the way broke promises made in sigh saying "same- day service" and "satisfaction guaranteed."
But $54 million for what, a pain and suffering case from being pantsless? I`m not wearing pants now -- no, I do, I have pants on but you wonder why things in Washington are so screwed up. Sherman Tiger Joyce is president of the American Tort Reform Association. Sher, you believe this suit passes what you call the Jay Leno test, but why is it even in a courtroom?
SHERMAN JOYCE, AMERICAN TORT REFORM ASSOCIATION. That`s a great question, Joe. It really shouldn`t be in a courtroom. The people in Washington, DC who have legitimate claims are really being harmed and the taxpayers are picking up the bill. This case has no business being in court. The notion that this drycleaner has committed some kind of systemic fraud on the people of Washington, DC, which is the core of this case, is just laughable on its face.
PAGLIARULO: Well, I`ve got to throw this at you. Listen, if I brought my dry cleaning to a dry cleaner and I got my pants back and they were eight sizes too small or they never gave them back to me, or if they incinerated them and gave me just the zipper back, I have recourse to get money for my pants back, don`t I? Where did he come up with $54 million?
JOYCE: Well, he`s -- You`re right. And how many people listening to this program have had a problem? People make mistakes and I think we have to make a distinction between making an honest mistake in trying to make an honest living versus what has been somehow living within the mind of Mr. Pearson that the signs on this drycleaner constituted the kinds of promises or what have you that the failure to have -- just having one mistake, if it in fact is a mistake, constitute some kind of a massive fraud on the citizens of Washington, DC. The underlying law he used as a basis for the case unfortunately is sufficiently vague that you can see how a case like this could get underway. But it has no business in the courtroom.
PAGLIARULO: Listen, this is why there are so many jokes about lawyers. And we can`t avoid the fact that this guy is a judge of some sort. Shouldn`t he know better?
JOYCE: Well, you would think. You hear the discussion about the term when someone is nominated for the Supreme Court or one of the federal appeals courts or a high court a state, "judicial temperament," somebody who has the temerity to bring this type of case who thinks this is appropriate you really have to question whether they belong whether they should be wearing a judicial robe.
PAGLIARULO: Why are judges continuing to listen to this case, are they afraid they`re going face repercussions somehow or to set a bad precedent that other people can`t get. Listen, I have a $30 million pair of shorts I would like to get some money for. I mean, you know?
JOYCE: That`s a great question. Somebody who brings a case like this ought to be sanctioned. Clearly somebody who brings a case like this, you got to wonder how they became a judge. But I will say that the underlying consumer protection law, which exists to protect consumers, it`s a law enforcement tool, is being abused in a lot of jurisdictions by individual litigants and this is the best example. This case is off the charts.
PAGLIARULO: I`ve got 10 seconds. How does it end?
JOYCE: Well, hopefully it ends with a dismissal, but that`s not much solace to the nice family that runs this business. They have got enormous legal bills and this has been devastating for them.
PAGLIARULO: All right. Sherman, always a pleasure, thank you so much.
JOYCE: Thank you.
PAGLIARULO: Coming up, talk about a disconnect, the new U.N. chief says the problems in Darfur are the result of global warming. Sounds like a classic example of excuse making to me and while the genocide continues to rage in Darfur, it`s Paris Hilton that is captivating the minds of most Americans. I`ll have all the latest details from behind bars.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO: We all know that environmentalists will say anything to scare us into believing that we`re all going to die from global warming, warming, warming.
But let me tell you, things have gone beyond ridiculous with the latest statement from the head of the United Nations. Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon blames the ethnic and religious violence in Darfur on global warming and insists that more conflicts of this kind are on the way because the world is heating up, but he doesn`t realize the only thing that is heating up is religious violence in that region.
He wrote, quote, "The Darfur conflict began as an ecological crisis arising at least in part from the climate change. Two decades ago the rains in southern Sudan began to fail. According to U.N. statistics" -- huhhhhhh, this is long winded, isn`t it? -- "average precipitation has declined some 40 percent since the early 1980s.
"Scientists at first considered this to be an unfortunate quirk of nature. But subsequent investigation found that it derives to some degree from man made global warming."
Yeah, I guess they have too many big SUVs in Darfur these days. Am I the only one who things this is preposterous? Chris Horner, senior fellow at the Competitive Enterprise Institute joins me now. Chris, I`m guessing you think it`s nuts, too?
CHRIS HORNER, COMPETITIVE ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: Well, I don`t know. There`s a great bumper sticker appeal that people don`t kill people, global warming kills people. The problem is I think we`ve infantilized the third world enough -- This is an irresponsible degree coming from someone who is in a position of power such that absolutely, positively nothing they do to themselves is of their own making when in fact you touched on something that`s critical.
Actually, there are two points. First, has man been fingered with having altered African rainfall patterns? Not according to his very own United Nations, the global warming report you hear about so much recently, used 18 models, all these different scenarios and they all came down to its natural variability. The difference, however .
PAGLIARULO: Hold on a second. How does he get away with it saying the big, mean, rich, generally white population did this?
HORNER: Look, obviously they`ve proven with the global warming alarmism success that there`s a tremendous market out there for saying things like, well, if it would have rained more, religious and racial genocide wouldn`t be occurring and it didn`t rain because of the wealthy countries. The idea that capitalism is at the root of all of the world`s problems is instilled in most any one of the U.N. phylum. It has great currency in the media.
PAGLIARULO: Well, Chris, you might be on to something.
HORNER: Look how much attention he got by saying this.
PAGLIARULO: I live in Texas. When we don`t get enough rain in Texas, I tend to really go pray hard at the church.
I feel like talking to somebody who doesn`t believe like I believe. This guy is off his rocker. It`s kind of appropriate that his name is Ban, I would like to do that to him. But what do we believe from the U.N., that the first study is right, what he`s saying now is correct or they`re all full of it?
HORNER: I would stop listening to them except when he refers to them, you might as well go back and look and none of the 18 models attribute this to anything but natural variability.
The key question here is, why does Africa continue to be uniquely vulnerable to drought? Remember, drought happens everywhere, always will sometime. Climate changes, always has, always will. Why do they refuse to join the ranks of developing countries? Why does Africa not tolerate political corruption? They insist upon it.
PAGLIARULO: And why does the U.N. refuse to go in there and keep the peace, which is their job? I guess he is not doing a very good job at that so it`s your fault and mine.
HORNER: Well, look, everything comes down to this is the wealthy country`s fault but we need to stop infantilizing these people, Africa needs to enter the ranks of developing countries and they won`t do it until they install respect for property rights and all the other things that we have and they need.
PAGLIARULO: All right, Chris, thanks a lot for that. Appreciate it.
Up next, the immigration bill the on life support in Congress, but it could get a shot in the arm this week. I`ll find out whether this controversial legislation deserves a second chance. Stick around.
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PAGLIARULO: Coming up, a very disturbing story about a substitute teacher allegedly caught doing inappropriate things with her teenage daughter`s 13-year-old boyfriend. Yuck, wrong on so many levels. We`ll get to the bottom of it.
But first, every really bad horror movie ends with the monster who everybody thought was dead magically resurrecting himself for one last murderous rampage before he`s finally killed for good. Well, the horror show that is the current immigration bill is no different, after being presumed dead a couple of weeks ago. The bill now reportedly has new live, as Senator Majority Leader Harry Reid has said that he`ll bring it back to the Senate floor this week along with $4.4 billion in, quote, unquote, "guaranteed funding" for border security attached to it. That money is obviously being included to make people like me, people who Trent Lott say are, quote, "running America," shut up and let this bill pass. Well, that`s not going to happen. News flash, Trent. The bill doesn`t have the votes because it`s a piece of garbage, not because of talk radio.
This week, it`s time to end this horror show and kill the bill once and for all. Republican Congressman Ted Poe from Texas has been outspoken about this and has been a critic of it. Congressman, thank you so much for being here today.
REP. TED POE (R), TEXAS: Thank you, Joe.
PAGLIARULO: I`ve got to take you over to the other chamber real quick. Senator John Cornyn, right there from Texas, as well, added some amendments to this bill he said would maybe get his support. He wanted to stop felons, and pedophiles, and bad guys from ever, ever, ever getting the chance to gain legal status here in America, and it got squashed. When you heard that happen in the Senate, did you think to yourself, "That`s it, this thing`s done"?
POE: I figured so. You know, no one in America wants to legalize felons from foreign countries, but apparently the United States Senate does. And I thought the bill was dead, but it has been resurrected, like you say, with the empty promise of border security for those of us on the right. For those folks on the left, it promises more family reunification with people from other countries to come here and live with the illegals. So it has something for each party, but I don`t know that it`s going to pass.
PAGLIARULO: Congressman, I hope it doesn`t pass. I`ve got to tell you something, when you`ve got a situation where they would squash an amendment that would actually make sure that people are here legally, people are actually trying their best, people are actually here enjoying the American dream, that they`re not going to enjoy if they come in the dark of night, hide under a rock, when you squash something, a part of that that says, "We`ll take you if you`re legal and you tell us who you are," when you squash that, people like me, people like the majority, 60 percent to 70 percent of all Americans, don`t want this. And when Harry Reid says $4.4 billion to border security, what does that mean to you?
POE: It means it`s not going to happen. It never has happened. We already had border security bills, and the government doesn`t protect the borders. It`s an empty promise. And the big picture of this bill, just like the other one, it`s the same song, second verse. It`s an amnesty bill. It`s going to legalize those people that are here illegally in the United States...
PAGLIARULO: What has to happen for you to give it your backing?
POE: Well, I`m not sure I could ever support this bill, because it legalizes illegals, and I would require, of course, that they go back and get in line just like everybody else, and that`s not going to happen. So I hope the bill fails. We just need to enforce the laws that we have. It`s already illegal to be in the United States without permission.
PAGLIARULO: Just stop for a second. You`re telling me that you want us to enforce the laws that we have on the books instead of getting new laws and promise to enforce those? And what the heck does the word "comprehensive" mean in front of this bill? Comprehensive immigration reform what does that even mean?
POE: Comprehensive means it`s going to be a promise for border security, a promise to punish the employers, and it`s a promise to reform the immigration service, but it`s amnesty. And we already have laws to enforce the border, protect the border. You know, the government doesn`t do it, because it doesn`t want to. And it`s against the law to be here illegally. Enforce those laws. We don`t need any more new laws. The purpose of this law is to grant amnesty to people that are here illegally. That`s all it is.
PAGLIARULO: Has the president called you? Has he picked up the phone and given you a call directly? Has he?
POE: No, he has not called me directly, but he indirectly talked about me last week.
PAGLIARULO: Oh, did he? OK. I mean, when you get that kind of pressure from the guy who`s the leader of the Republican Party, like it or not, how do you respond? I mean, he gives you a call, pays you a visit? What are you going to say to him?
POE: I`m going to respectfully disagree with him. The president is wrong on this issue. The American public wants the borders protected. They don`t want amnesty, and Congress has got it backwards.
PAGLIARULO: Well, when you`ve got a president who wants to clearly base his legacy on immigration reform, when you`ve got a president -- and, again, I have agreed with a lot of what this man has said. I`m not here to bash George W. Bush. But he clearly is not using his brain here, and he`s leaning so far left he`s falling out of the car when it comes to immigration. What do the crux of that is? Why do you think that he`s so adamant and stubborn about this?
POE: I`m not sure. It may be for political reasons, but I really don`t know the motivation. I think he is motivated from a sincere heart. I just think he`s wrong. The American public doesn`t want this type of nonsense for the United States. It`s only good for illegals. It`s not good for Americans or legalized citizens.
PAGLIARULO: I can`t thank you enough, Congressman. We appreciate it.
And listen, a little over six years ago, U.S. Border Patrol agent Gary Brugman, along with his partner and two other agents, chased a group of about 10 illegal aliens who had triggered an alarm while crossing the border. What happened next is a matter of who you believe.
Agent Brugman says that, after catching the illegals, at least one of them wasn`t complying with orders to sit on the ground, so he used his foot to push him back down. The government, headed by U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton -- heard that name before -- said that Agent Brugman assaulted the man using unreasonable force. Now, the jury based largely on the testimony of the illegal alien, believed Sutton ad Agent Brugman were sentenced to over two years in federal prison. Ironically, some of the time was spent in Yazoo City, Mississippi, the same place where Ignacio Ramos, another victim of Johnny Sutton`s border guard crusade, is currently serving time.
Former U.S. Border Patrol agent Gary Brugman is here now to join me. And, Gary, we appreciate you taking the time. We talked on Glenn`s radio show on Friday. And when that illegal wouldn`t listen to you, and when you were giving the orders, the training told you to give those orders, right?
GARY BRUGMAN, FORMER U.S. BORDER PATROL AGENT: Yes, sir.
PAGLIARULO: When the guy didn`t listen to you and wouldn`t get back on the ground and you used your foot, was that you being unreasonable or was that the training working again?
No, not at all, sir. That was training I received at the federal law enforcement training center, and it was just a front kick. I just pushed him on the ground with the bottom of my foot.
PAGLIARULO: OK, and that`s your job. You were charged with protecting the border, protecting me and my family, you and your family, and all of America from people coming here and breaking the laws that are on the books, yes?
BRUGMAN: Correct.
PAGLIARULO: OK. So when this goes down, and you find out you`re going to be charged, what goes through your head? Did you talk to your supervisor? Did you talk to your training personnel? Who did you talk to? Who did you call and say, "This is crazy. These guys think they`re going to charge me with a crime here"?
BRUGMAN: Well, Joe, I talked to everybody I could, my supervisors, my sector chief, everybody. Nobody knew. Nobody could tell me what it was about, because it was the office of the inspector general that was investigating me. And I went to my congressman`s office at the time, which was Henry Bonilla, and he told me that he doesn`t get involved in anything judicial like that.
PAGLIARULO: OK. So you`re doing your job, you`re doing the job the best way you can, and this is a job that you loved, right?
BRUGMAN: Oh, I loved the job, yes.
PAGLIARULO: Now, you`ve gone to prison now -- by the way, because of the testimony of the guy that you were using your training on, and also another criminal, right?
BRUGMAN: Correct, yes. They ridded a narcotics smuggler that I arrested six weeks later in a totally separate incident. They ridded him out of prison to come testify against me.
PAGLIARULO: Now, what kind of deal was made by the drug dealer?
BRUGMAN: Nobody knows.
PAGLIARULO: Why not?
BRUGMAN: Because they sealed all his records.
PAGLIARULO: OK, they seal his records. They give this guy potentially a big break. They take the illegal immigrant that you held down and did your job with, and they let him go and testify against you. They bring you up on charges. Isn`t there any sort of legal resource for you? I mean, wasn`t there any sort of a union or something you were in, where they could say, "Wait a second. Gary is doing what we asked Gary to do"?
BRUGMAN: The union did whatever they could at the time, but this was six years ago. Nobody really knew or cared what happened back then.
PAGLIARULO: Now, I look into the programs at different sporting events. I watch television and I see these ads. The Border Patrol right now, Homeland Security right now is trying its best to get more Gary Brugmans to sign up. "We need your help. We want to protect the borders. We want to stop terrorism." In a post-9/11 world, we need you. And it`s almost like the Uncle Sam signs. What do you say to somebody who`s even considering becoming a Border Patrol agent?
BRUGMAN: Like I told you the other day, become a fireman.
PAGLIARULO: Right, you can help people and probably not get sued, although, I mean, if you look at this example, a fireman might get sued for the window he knocked out saving the lives of the people inside. You know, in going forward, can you apply your trade anymore? can you be a law enforcement officer?
BRUGMAN: No, sir, I can`t do law enforcement anymore. I`m considered a felon right now. I can`t even vote right now.
PAGLIARULO: You can`t vote? You can`t go and get your job back? You can`t be a police officer there in San Antonio? You can`t do anything?
BRUGMAN: No, sir.
PAGLIARULO: OK, is there any recourse for you? Are you looking at civil action or that`s it, it`s done? I served my time, and that`s just going to be a mark on my life for the rest of my life?
BRUGMAN: Well, Joe, right now, I got plans for the future, but I`m trying to see what I can do to help Ramos and Jose Compean and Gilmer Hernandez, because what Johnny Sutton has done is just totally wrong. And I`m trying to fight to see if I can give the Border Patrol agents a reason to continue being Border Patrol agents.
PAGLIARULO: Gary, it`s always a pleasure. Thank you very much. Listen, I believe in the job that you did, and I hope that you`ll be able to go forward and help the three gentlemen that you just talked about. Thanks a million for being here.
BRUGMAN: Hey, thanks, Joe. Talk to again.
PAGLIARULO: Coming up, Paris Hilton may have gotten some warm hugs from her parents on Father`s Day, but it wasn`t enough to take the chill out of her bones. I`ll explain in just a minute. And also ask the bigger question: Why do we care so much?
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GLENN BECK, HOST: Work ethic? Please. Paris Hilton was a turning point in our country. She is revered by so much of our youth. They respect her. They want to emulate her. She`s a turning point in work ethic, as well as fame and fortune. You no longer have to work for anything.
PARIS HILTON, HOTEL HEIRESS: I`ve worked really hard, and it`s paying off right now.
BECK: If I was Paris Hilton, I don`t know how I live with myself at the end when I look at what I created. I`ve created nothing.
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PAGLIARULO: And just a reminder, Glenn will be back right here tomorrow night. Now, I know this is going to come as a shock, but Al Gore is worried that people just aren`t paying enough attention to global warming. He recently said, quote, "The planet is in distress, and all of the attention is on Paris Hilton. We have to ask ourselves, what is going on here?"
Well, Al, I did ask myself that very question a few minutes ago, and the answer is Paris Hilton gets way better ratings than you. Yes, I know it`s hard to believe, but America would apparently rather look at an attractive young woman than a 59-year-old fat, then skinny, then fat again, greasy-haired politician with an affinity for lock boxes.
The ironic part is that Paris could actually use a little global warming right now herself. She`s reportedly freezing cold in her cell. Oh, the humanity. You know, all the jokes aside, I think I`ve actually found something that I can kind of agree with Al Gore on. There are more important things going on in the world than Paris shivering in jail, so why do we keep talking about her?
Let`s do this. Let`s find out by talking about her and showing lots of Paris video while we do so. Julia Allison is an entertainment reporter and Lisa Bloom is an attorney and anchor for Court TV.
Ladies, thank you so much for being here.
Julia, I`ve got to ask you. What is the attraction, is it the Anna Nicole Smith thing all over again? Is that what it is?
JULIA ALLISON, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: Well, listen, a ravenous appetite for celebrity news coverage is nothing new. Obviously, when Elvis was drafted back in the day, it was all the country could talk about. What has changed is the sheer scale of it. The ubiquity of these stars, it`s coming out in full force because of 24-hour cable news networks like this one and the Internet gossip blogs.
PAGLIARULO: How dare you.
ALLISON: It`s Internet gossip. There are so many more places where we can find out about the details of the stars` lives.
PAGLIARULO: Yes, but do we honestly care more about this than Darfur? Do we honestly care more about this than Iraq?
ALLISON: Yes.
PAGLIARULO: Do we honestly care about this more than the presidential election, which I think is 3 1/2 years away now? And, interestingly, and I want to get your take on this, too -- I mean, why the obsession? I get the obsession with Elvis. He was a teen superstar. But there really wasn`t this, "He`s drunk driving. He`s sleeping with this person." Now it`s all dirty and yuck.
ALLISON: Sexy B roll. Honestly, it`s all about Sexy B roll.
LISA BLOOM, COURT TV ANCHOR: Well, there`s also the inequality issue. And there`s where I come in from the Court TV angle. There`s the angle that Paris Hilton got unequal treatment, she got sprung from jail supposedly because of some medical problem, which may have been ADD or a rash...
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PAGLIARULO: No, no -- if you listen to Al Sharpton, the medical problem was white and rich. You didn`t hear that?
BLOOM: That`s very good. And now her parents and her sister get to jump the line like it`s a Hollywood club instead of waiting in with everybody else. I think that`s wrong. And I`ve got to say this, though. I`ve been very critical of Paris Hilton, but I`m with her. As a female who`s a little bit on the thin side, too, I`m always cold, too. She`s probably freezing.
PAGLIARULO: Well, I`m actually hot right now. You know, I`m 6`1", 250. I`m steaming out here.
BLOOM: I know, because men are always warm, and women are always cold, and the air conditioning -- and, you know, she probably is cold. But she`s not the only one. Probably a lot of other inmates are cold, too, and this doesn`t get voiced. They don`t get to complain. It doesn`t get voiced.
ALLISON: But this is completely -- but we have to understand, this is completely irrelevant to all of our lives, whether Paris Hilton is warm or cold...
PAGLIARULO: Completely and utterly.
ALLISON: ... whether she`s happy or not, whether she`s having a mental breakdown. I mean, it doesn`t matter at all. However, journalism, contrary to popular belief, is a business. And in order to make money in this business, you have to sell magazines or get viewers. And guess what sells? Sexy women sell.
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PAGLIARULO: Hold on a second. Listen, I buy that. I`ve been a journalist for a very long time. And I buy what you`re saying. I get that people want to make money. It`s a business. OK, I`m with you. But if the journalists stopped following her around and Lindsay Lohan around and Britney Spears, for goodness sakes, and actually started, you know, covering things that are just as interesting but aren`t as flashy and sensationalistic, we as a consumer would consume that...
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BLOOM: But the story of the mighty falling has been around for thousands of years. And Paris Hilton, who`s born rich and who actually is a model, who actually does do something for a living, whether we like it or not, she`s a very attractive woman, and she sells stuff, and she`s on magazine covers. That`s what she does. She`s eye popping. We love to look at her. And falling from grace by her own idiotic drunk driving and then failing to abide by her terms of probation and then going to jail, that`s a fascinating story. We can`t believe this woman`s behind bars, which she is, which we can`t believe she got out, and she did. Now that she`s complaining that she`s cold. Well, it`s a story. It`s interesting. Everybody wants to follow it.
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PAGLIARULO: But, Julia, if the entertainment reporters stopped following this so closely, wouldn`t we have to, in fact, take a look at some other stuff that we might find important?
ALLISON: You know what? They tried it. The A.P. actually tried to have a ban on Paris Hilton. It lasted four days.
PAGLIARULO: Oh, come on, really, they did that?
ALLISON: Four days without Paris. So, I mean, listen, if you`re at poolside this summer, you have a choice between "Star" magazine and the "Economist." Which are you going to choose?
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BLOOM: Let me say something else, though, as a parent of a teenage girl. I don`t let my daughter read the magazines with the screaming yellow headlines, no offense to people who write them. I think it rots your brain.
PAGLIARULO: Well, I`ve got three daughters, and I named them Paris, Lindsay and Britney. It so happened to be -- no, I didn`t.
BLOOM: Well, that`s where you and I part company. But, you know, I think there`s room for reading serious news about Iraq and also for reading the light stuff. My problem is, is when the girls, especially teenage girls, only read about what bag Paris has or what color lip gloss she`s wearing. That`s the problem.
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BLOOM: Just don`t forget the serious stuff, too.
PAGLIARULO: And, ladies, I`ve got to run. Listen, I`m just wondering. Did we show enough Paris Hilton video during that segment or should we leave it longer?
ALLISON: No, more. Bring us more.
PAGLIARULO: Lisa, Julia, thank you very much.
Up next, another case of teacher-student sex. We`re back in a minute.
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PAGLIARULO: Well, stories about teachers having sex with their students are becoming all-too-common now, but now comes a story with a bit of a twist. A 38-year-old substitute teacher in Prescott, Wisconsin, is under investigation now for having sex with a 13-year-old student. Sick, but not that unusual. Well, that student also happens to have been dating the teacher`s 13-year-old daughter. Ew.
For more on this, here again is Court TV`s Lisa Bloom. Lisa, what the heck? I mean, this is like every couple weeks now we`re getting one of these stories.
BLOOM: Yes, and I like your analysis. Ew.
PAGLIARULO: It really is ew.
BLOOM: I think that`s the way -- look, the women who seem to be preying on male students seem to be getting a pass or very light sentences, and that`s been the case for Mary Kay Letourneau to Debra LaFave down in Florida. They get a slap on the wrist. They get a couple of days. You know, when they`re a repeat offender, they might get a longer term. But they seem to be getting away with it.
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PAGLIARULO: You know, but, Lisa, I have to interject this. You mentioned those two, who are reasonably attractive women. Show Deb LaFave again, if we can. This is Deb LaFave, who got house arrest after having sex with some 14-year-old kid. Now let`s show this other lady that is like spending 20 years in prison or something for doing the same thing. I mean, honest to goodness, it`s a double standard. If you`re a hot teacher, and you do this, you get away with it.
BLOOM: Well, and, in fact, Debra LaFave`s attorney made the argument that she was too attractive to go to prison.
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BLOOM: It was a ridiculous argument, but somebody seems to have bought it, because, as you say, she got house arrest. It kind of reminds me of Paris Hilton. She`s so pretty, she should get her own jail cell, and we should spring her if she has a problem.
PAGLIARULO: Wait a second. I think somebody just mentioned Paris Hilton. Have we got some Paris Hilton video we could put up? Help, somebody, quickly get the Paris Hilton video.
BLOOM: It`s ridiculous.
PAGLIARULO: You know, when you see a story like this, it`s disgusting. If a man did it to a woman, to a 13-year-old girl, you`ve heard it over and over, he would be castrated.
BLOOM: That`s right. But you know what? Every guy says, "Oh, I wish my teacher had done that to me." Right? I mean, even men seem to think that women should get a lighter sentence for this.
PAGLIARULO: Well, I don`t. I don`t know if you noticed, I`m a man. And I don`t think this is something that should be going on.
BLOOM: I haven`t noticed, Joe, but now that you mention it...
PAGLIARULO: Yes, whatever. It`s interesting to me -- honestly, this is about power. This is about controlling somebody. This is about ruining somebody`s future, ruining their education.
BLOOM: That`s right.
PAGLIARULO: And because they blink their fat eyes at the judge, they`re getting away with it. We`ve got to have to put our foot down here, don`t we?
BLOOM: No, I agree. And look, I used to represent sexually abused children, including male children, and it`s just as harmful for them, the lack of power, a teacher preying on them. They feel like they can`t say no. And years later, you see the damage in their relationships and their psychological development. And it is a serious thing. And, I mean, I can`t believe these women continue to do it, but they do, and they continue to get light sentences.
PAGLIARULO: My thanks, Court TV`s Lisa Bloom, thank you so much. That`s going to do it for us tonight.
BLOOM: Thank you.
PAGLIARULO: I`m Joe Pagliarulo, Joe Pags, in for Glenn Beck tonight. Glenn`s back on the air tomorrow on both radio and TV. From New York, have a great night.
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