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Serial Killer`s Daughter Discusses Legacy of Pain; How Can We Protect Neighborhoods from Molesters?; Should U.S. Sell Arms to Saudis?
Aired July 31, 2007 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
GLENN BECK, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, when Daddy kills. One of the accused in the Cheshire triple murder case leaves behind a daughter. We`ll talk to the daughter of an actual serial killer.
Plus, parents fighting back against a pedophile. But just how far can your neighborhood push back before it becomes vigilante justice?
And the latest on the Michael Vick dog fighting case. A canine- killing conspirator agrees to testify against Vick. Could this sack the quarterback`s career once and for all?
All this and more, tonight.
BECK: Who let the dogs out? That`s just like we`ve revealed ourselves as the geeks that we are. Hello, America, and welcome to Geek Central.
Justice needs to be done. These are the words of Christopher Komisarjevsky. He`s the uncle of one of the two men charged with murder, rape, kidnapping, robbery and arson in last week`s killing spree in Cheshire, Connecticut.
The more we find out about the life of this evil young man, the more bizarre this crime becomes. It seems hard to believe today that, before he allegedly raped and murdered a mother and her two daughters, he was actually actively trying to get custody of his own 5-year-old daughter.
Here`s the point tonight. One more victim has been added to this tragic case: a little girl who will have to grow up tormented by the fact that her father was likely a rapist and a murderer. And here`s how I got there.
Earlier today on ABC`s "Good Morning America", Joshua`s uncle spoke openly about his nephew turned killer. He didn`t make excuses for the 26- year-old dirt bag, which I really respected.
He didn`t -- he did try to explain something about the boy`s parents, the adopted parents that tried to do everything they could to raise him well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTOPHER KOMISARJEVSKY, UNCLE OF ACCUSED MURDERER JOSHUA KOMISARJEVSKY: And I think my brother and his wife did everything that parents could do to try to make sure that he did the right thing. At a certain point, when you become a young adult or you become an adult, you`re responsible for your own action.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECK: Boy, those are words you just don`t hear very often any more in America: you are responsible for your own actions.
But how does a young man who grows up in a loving, religious home turn into a calculating serial killer, or a killer? Is it nature, or is it nurture? At the end of the day, it really doesn`t matter, does it? We all have the free will to make good decisions or bad ones, and your life is nothing more than the sum total of the choices that you and you alone have made.
But what about those who haven`t gotten the chance to make their own choices yet? How about the little girl, Jada, Joshua`s 5-year-old daughter? The little girl who was born while her father was behind bars.
The true victims in this case all share the same name, Petit, and we should never forget that. Many hope that Joshua Komisarjevsky would -- would pay for this crime with his life, but there are others who will have wounds of their own, scars that will last a lifetime.
I`m sure that Joshua`s parents must feel somewhat responsible. Can you imagine being the family, the father or the mother, of this guy? What could we have done differently? What could we have done to have saved their son from a life of crime and killing? How many times would you ask that question?
I`m a parent, and quite honestly, I`m ashamed to say that I haven`t always been a good one, but thankfully, my kids are fine, and I think partly due to parenting and partly because kids come preloaded with some software that parents don`t have anything to do with.
Sometimes, like with my kids, that`s a very good thing. Other times parents aren`t so lucky, and their little boy or girl goes bad.
I have enough compassion for the Petit family and the Komisarjevsky parents, as well.
So tonight here`s what you need to know. Now it seems we have the murderers in custody. We can look to the collateral damage surrounding the human tragedy, and that starts with one killer`s daughter, Jada. She`s only 5 years old today, but the time will come when she`ll have to face up to the past, who her father was and what he did. I pray that she finds the courage to cope with the truth and the strength to rise above it.
One woman who knows all too well what it is like to be raised by a murderer, is Cheryl Nagy. She`s the author of "True Confessions of a Serial Killer".
Cheryl, I heard your story today. It is horrific, starting at 2. Briefly tell America your story.
CHERYL NAGY, AUTHOR, "TRUE CONFESSIONS OF A SERIAL KILLER": Well, it started when I was very young, and through my life I was raped and molested by my father. And it`s -- between 1 and 5, you`re so impressionable, and this will definitely stick with this little girl, because it stuck with me.
BECK: You -- you had -- I mean, your father used to tell you that he killed children and buried them in the backyard. Am I...
NAGY: Yes. Yes. On his property. Now in Michigan, he killed, but he left the children where they could be found, and he would tell me about it. And he would sit down...
BECK: And you believed him at the time?
NAGY: Oh, yes. Absolutely. He sat me down, and he said, "I`m very sick, and I need to tell you these things so you can help me." So when he murdered, he would tell me about it, but then he would say if I give him sexual pleasure, that it would stop him from doing this, because he could get it at home because he wasn`t getting it from my mother.
BECK: Oh, gosh.
NAGY: So he treated me like his wife, and I was 2 years old when it started, and the penetration started at 9 years old.
BECK: How did you -- how did you survive this? You got out of the house by the time you were 12, right?
BECK: You lived on the street?
BECK: What -- what happens to your mind? Are you ever afraid of yourself? Did you ever go through a point where you thought, "Oh, my gosh, I have these genes in me"?
NAGY: Yes. And am I dysfunctional? Am I? Am I doing -- because my family turned on me and thought I was crazy, because I`m telling that this is happening to me.
Back in 1972 you didn`t hear of stuff like this, but it`s everywhere. And so I`m trying to go to schools to tell these kids where the predators live. Find out where they live, their address, what they look like. So they can be protected.
BECK: How does -- let`s turn it to Jada quick. How -- how will she get this out of her system?
NAGY: She will not ever get it out of her system, because it`s such an impressionable time of her life, and that`s her father, and you look to your parents. You want to look up to them.
But then when you`re hearing about what he`s done and he`s in jail and he was a murderer, it`s embarrassing. And it does follow you, because other people look at you and they ask you, you know, "How could you" -- just like you`re asking me.
BECK: Cheryl, I would love to spend more time with you on the air...
BECK: ... at some point and have you back. It is -- I mean, God bless you for even standing upright today. God bless you.
BECK: We`ll talk to you again.
BECK: Cheryl, thanks a lot.
BECK: Joining me now is Dr. Robert Butterworth, where he`s a psychologist, specializing in trauma and children.
Doc, how does someone survive this?
DR. ROBERT BUTTERWORTH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, your last guest can really give people hope, can`t she?
BECK: My gosh.
BUTTERWORTH: To go through what she did and to be able to stand upright and help other people, that could prove to others.
But you`re right. A child, you grow up. In order to be normal, you have to have the kind of patients that are kind of supporting you through all the tough times. And when something bad happens, there`s like a hole in your psyche.
And not only as a little child like this 5-year-old thinking, "Gee, it must be me because everything revolves around me." But then they get older and their friends kind of shy away and people look at them like, "Gee, there must be something bad with you because of your dad," you know, and then you try to live life.
BECK: Hang on just a second, Bob, because -- you know, and I`m sorry for telling you or rehashing this again, but my mom was an alcoholic, and she killed herself and yada yada when I was 13 years old.
And I spent -- and each one of my sisters did the same thing. We spent a lot of our life thinking we were going to repeat hers. It was bull crap.
How do you -- how do you get to a child like this and say, "You are not the genetic mental byproduct of your family? You don`t have to repeat this. You don`t have that evil in you," et cetera, et cetera. Do you understand my question?
BUTTERWORTH: Yes. And hopefully, in those -- in those years that from where you`ve come from we`ve learned exactly what you just said. That we tell people, "You`re going to feel this way. You`re going to feel guilty. You`re going to feel that you`re responsible, but you`re not."
And we repeat it over and over again through all the stages of development. And we just pray that it sticks and they can get on with their lives without those horrible thoughts impinging.
BECK: I have to tell you -- I`m sorry, America, for making this all about me, but I heard another part of the story that scared me. I have an adopted son. They say -- the family says that this killer went wrong at 14 when he found out he was adopted.
How should a child find out he was adopted? And you buy into that at all?
BUTTERWORTH: You know, this kid -- there`s a rap sheet here over and over and over again, and you know, we always -- it`s our society. We always want to find a reason.
"Gee, I was a good kid, and I had guilt, and all of a sudden I became adopted, and now I don`t care and I can kill people?" That -- for me that`s really difficult to stomach.
BECK: OK. So you`re saying -- I`m glad to hear people say this on television. You`re saying bull crap with the excuses. You still have a choice, no matter what it is.
BUTTERWORTH: Yes. Now, obviously, oh, boy, I`m going to get in trouble for this, but there are some people that are bad. I mean, sadly, if you have good parenting, most kids do pretty well, but there are some kids that don`t feel guilt, and no matter what you do...
BECK: I -- I know a lot of great parents who their kids are, quite honestly, demons, you know what I mean? They just go awry, you know? And they eventually come back.
But does it -- people spend so much time feeling guilty, good parents feeling guilty: "Gosh, I should have done more." And sometimes you`re right. Kids are bad.
BUTTERWORTH: Yes. And therapists spend more time trying to get the parents back together than the kids. We say, "Listen, you had three kids. One kid went bad. You did the right thing for the other two. Don`t feel guilty. Just see what you can do to get that person on the right track."
BECK: Thank you very much, Doctor. Appreciate it.
Coming up, a self-described pedophile from California is hiding behind the law while he stalks our kids. We did part one of this story yesterday. Today, I want to show you how you fight back. If you`re a parent, you don`t want to miss this next segment.
Plus, Russia claims they`re our ally in the war on terror, but they just agreed to sell billions of dollars worth of high-tech weaponry, including jets, to our good friends in Iran. Is Moscow raising some cash or sending us a message or both?
And there`s a rat in Michael Vick`s posse. Good. One of his partners in crime has flipped and is now going to testify against him. What it all means for the troubled quarterback. Stick around and find out.
BECK: Coming up, one of the co-defendants in the Michael Vick dog fighting case has copped a plea and will testify against the NFL star, but that`s not Vick`s only problem. I`ll tell you why PETA wants a slice of his paycheck, as well.
Can`t believe this show, me. I`m having PETA on again, and I agree with them yet again. Help me.
But first, I told you yesterday about Jack McClellan. He is the self- proclaimed scum bag. Well, I can`t say he`s called himself a scum bag, but he has called himself a pedophile. Interchangeable in my head.
He`s had the web sites in Seattle and Los Angeles telling all about his lust for little children. He rates the best spots for watching "L.G.`s", or little girls, and he talks freely about his twisted sexual thoughts about our kids.
He`s out there right now. God only knows what he`s watching or where he`s lurking or what dark thoughts he`s planting in the minds of other depraved.
But since McClellan has not acted on his words or feelings, as far as we know, authorities say there`s nothing we can do. Parent groups, sex crime watchdogs don`t really agree with that, nor do I. They track his every move with the same precision and dedication he uses to troll for children.
Look at the face, America. Amen. Find him.
Our Founding Fathers knew that the government isn`t always there to protect us. It`s not their job to protect us every second of the day. It`s our job to protect our land, our families, our kids. That`s why the constitution starts with powerful words, "We, the people."
We, the people, know that a monster like Jack McClellan is on the prowl. It`s up to private citizens to be as vigilant as possible while minding the letter and the spirit of the law in protecting themselves and their children.
But where is the line? Where does that line stop and start? Where does a neighborhood self-preservation group become a group of vigilantes? And how do you stay on the right side of the law?
Wendy Murphy is a former prosecutor and a professor at the New England School of Law.
Wendy, let`s -- let`s start with this. It`s my understanding, in reading the founding documents and the words of our Founding Fathers, that when they wrote the Declaration of Independence, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness was our God-given right to own land, protect land, and protect ourselves. We have a right to protect our family.
WENDY MURPHY, PROFESSOR, NEW ENGLAND SCHOOL OF LAW: That`s right.
BECK: How do we -- how do we do it without going to jail? And I`m not -- I want to make this very clear. I`m not calling for anybody to rough this guy up, but make sure you know where he is all the time.
MURPHY: Yes. There`s nothing unconstitutional about that, and what these parent groups are doing by letting us know who he is, what he looks like, where he does what he does, how he does what he does, that`s a public service. That`s not a crime.
And I wouldn`t even use the word vigilantism, although you know, it`s really rooted in that word vigilant, which is a good thing for parents. The technical term is not a crime.
Using your right to be protective and to protect others and to share information with other families and so forth is not only acceptable; I think it`s a mandate when the criminal justice system or our laws are not good enough.
And that`s what`s unfortunate about our legal system, Glenn. Our laws are not good enough to put guys like that behind bars, so we do have to take matters into our own hands, and not be ashamed of it.
BECK: Here`s the deal. We don`t have -- we never had to write laws to put these people behind bars back in the old days, you know, with the Founding Fathers because, quite honestly, they would have run you out of town. That`s what they did. They ran you out of town.
Now we can`t run somebody out of town. We can`t run anybody our town, because there`s just another town down the road not too far way.
And, B, you have the ACLU representing groups like NAMBLA, and if I`m not mistaken, Wendy, please tell me I`m wrong on this, making headway.
MURPHY: Well, yes and no. And they`re losing a lot. Look, the ACLU really puts a lot of money and resources into protecting sex offenders. Guess how much money they put into protecting kids and families from the predatory behavior of guys like McClellan? Nothing.
So the bottom line is the ACLU deserves to be ashamed of themselves. In my opinion, I think they got to take a break from doing this, but they have had some successes. They`ve had a lot of losses.
And here`s what`s interesting. They have not only represented NAMBLA when NAMBLA teaches the joys of having sex with children. They have filed lawsuits to prevent those residency restrictions that make predators live far away from kids instead of moving right next door.
And I think the worst thing they do is say that there`s some kind of free speech right in the ability to say go rape children, but there`s no free speech right in my -- in my neck of the woods with my parent groups that I work with to go and say, "You need to know where this guy is."
That`s what I don`t like about the ACLU. They`re not American Civil Liberties Union. They`re the American Criminals Liberties Union.
BECK: All right. I have less than a minute here. If I`m living in a neighborhood with a pedophile, what can I do as a neighborhood?
MURPHY: Look, you can do anything you want to share information, public information, and that means sharing what he looks like, what he`s done, where he lives. What you can`t do...
BECK: I can -- I can post stuff all over the neighborhood if I want?
MURPHY: You can. There are states with restrictions on what private citizens can do to disseminate information. Massachusetts, we have privacy rights for convicted sex offenders. Most states don`t have that.
But you have to be careful never to cross the line into committing a crime. And that means never hit him in the head with a bat, never throw rocks at his house. Don`t destroy his property.
But you know, it`s a public service, much like what the media does when we tell each other who the dangerous people are, because that`s how we can stay away from them.
BECK: Right, Wendy, thank you very much.
MURPHY: You`re welcome.
BECK: Coming up a little later on in the program, NFL star Michael Vick, a dangerous person? He may have more to worry about with his upcoming trial for dog fighting. He`s got to now worry about PETA. They want a share of his paycheck from the NFL, and I`ll explain.
Also, as Condoleezza Rice heads for a meeting with Saudi leaders, new questions about the $20 billion arms deal the White House has just signed. Why are we still in bed with the Saudis? Coming up.
BECK: Back in `81, it was President Reagan who first planned an arms deal with Saudi Arabia. He felt that it could, you know, help in the peace making process with the Saudis.
Today, the world is a different place. Remember, the majority of 9/11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia. Strangely, though, President Bush this week still thinks we can get the Saudis to talk peace by selling them $20 billion worth of the most sophisticated weaponry we have: jets.
Plus, now it seems the Russians are selling jets to the Iranians. Great. My sixth sense is telling me this is really kind of a bad idea. Call me crazy, but I see dead people.
Michael Scheuer once led the CIA`s hunt for Osama bin Laden and is the author of "Imperial Hubris".
Mike, I`ve got to tell you, you and I disagree on a few things. I don`t -- I doubt we disagree that the Saudis are not really our friends.
MICHAEL SCHEUER, HOST, "IMPERIAL HUBRIS": The Saudis are probably the most serious nation state threat to the United States at the moment, Glenn. These people are out to -- you know, Bin Laden is fighting a defensive war. The Saudis are Islamic imperialists.
BECK: They are -- they are sending their -- a lot of these groups and a lot of these schools all around the world are all funded by the Saudis. These guys are insidiously evil.
SCHEUER: Including inside the United States, Glenn. And you know, we talk about a sale to the Saudis. This is going to come directly out of the pockets of American taxpayers, because the Saudis won`t pay a cent for it. All they will do is raise the price of oil high enough to cover the cost of the guns.
BECK: So if you were president today, what would you be -- what would your policy be with the Saudis, because everybody will -- everybody will say, "We need them. We got to have some friends."
I think our biggest problem in the Middle East is we`re in bed with evil people, and we used to stand for something around the world. We used to stand for not being in bed with dirt bags, and look what we`re doing.
SCHEUER: Well, in a sense, Glenn, you can`t really blame the president for this, because the Congress and the past presidents have done nothing since the first embargo in 1973 to take the Saudi collar off of our neck. As long as the problem is oil, when the Saudis say jump, we just simply say, "How high?"
BECK: So your solution then, I`m taking just judging by that answer, would be kind of mine, as well: just stop with the foreign oil. Let`s have a moon shot and get off of Saudi oil.
SCHEUER: We have to do something along that line, Glenn, because basically, if everyone on that Arabian Peninsula killed each other or someone invaded Saudi Arabia, if it wasn`t for oil...
SCHEUER: ... it wouldn`t affect Americans one lick.
BECK: OK. The Russians now are selling all kinds of jets and long- range refueling planes to Iran. Is this about the money? Is this about, you know, the gas partnership that they`re making? Is this a thumb in our eye, or is it a little of all of it?
SCHEUER: I think it`s all of it, Glenn. Putin is putting a finger into Bush`s eye. Clearly, he wants to sell money -- or planes. His country needs hard currency. And he`s got nothing to be afraid from the Iranians, so it`s all upside for -- for Putin and the Russians.
BECK: Michael, as always, it is good to have you on the program.
SCHEUER: Thank you, sir.
BECK: Coming up next, advertisers are slowly changing the way you watch television. I`ll explain how they`re doing it in tonight`s "Real Story" right after this commercial message for Chesterfields.
BECK: Coming up in just a bit, he is one of the highest-paid athletes in the world. But NFL star Michael Vick could be headed from the gridiron to the big house. I`ll tell you why Vick`s career prospects just got a whole lot shakier.
But first, welcome to "The Real Story." For years now, you`ve been hearing about how we watch television is going to change. I think it already has in some ways. If you are anything like me, 15 years ago you were watching "Melrose Place" on a TV the size of a washing machine. Did I just admit that I was watching "Melrose Place"? Forget that.
Now we`re watching "24" in high definition and surround sound on a TV that some people have it hanging on their living room wall. To me the real story isn`t about the type of television we watch our favorite shows on in the future, it`s about how these shows will continue to make money.
TiVo has already caused major problems with advertisers, so now instead of paying for ads based on the traditional measure of a complete show`s ratings, companies are paying them based on how their commercials rate. That, in turn, is forcing the networks to get creative on how they run the ads.
Earlier this month CBS experimented with running five minutes worth of ads on "The Late Late Show" just four minutes into the program. Now, I don`t know about -- hang on just a second, please.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The following opinion is brought to you by Captain Cook`s Fish Cakes. Captain Cook`s Fish Cakes, they crunch when you eat them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECK: Yes, and those are very, very delicious and crunchy. All right. So "The Late Late Show," they know that thousands of people are literally falling asleep every minute. That the show is on, people are going (snores).
So they`re trying to get in as many ads as quickly as possible.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The following camera move is brought to you by Sampson Van Lines. America`s most trusted moving company.
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BECK: In the end, like most things, this is all about money. If advertisers can`t cut through the clutter to get you to buy their stuff, then the entire advertiser-supported business model that television is built on will collapse.
Who is going to pay for your entertainment? Fortunately, advertisers are far too creative and have too much at stake for that to ever happen. David Kiley, senior correspondent for BusinessWeek.
David, sorry, speaking of steaks, I have got to tell you, I had one of the best steaks of my life at Sammy Sam`s Steakhouse here in New York City. Don`t know if you`ve ever been there, but you should try it. They`re open Monday, Wednesday, and Friday from 6:00 until midnight.
DAVID KILEY, SR. CORRESPONDENT, BUSINESSWEEK: I`m actually a Ben Benson`s man myself.
BECK: Are you really? Actually, I am too, but that wasn`t a paid commercial. Remember Sammy`s Steakhouse.
OK. So tell me about TiVo. TiVo has really changed everything on television. We already saw this happen at the end of the last season with "The Office" where they started putting commercial product in. We`re the first cable news show to have commercial product in, or mentions on the air of a sponsor. Is this where the change is coming?
KILEY: Where the changes are coming is that the advertising is going to leach into the actual programming any place it can until the viewer or the press or the public at large complains about it being offensive.
And I think what we saw with Craig Ferguson is that the interjection of a product announcement into his monologue and these big commercial breaks after the show has only been on for a few minutes is a model that doesn`t work for the viewers, and if they keep it up, they`re going to lose viewers.
BECK: Yes. You told me off air that you see a time where you are going to be paying a graduated scale for cable. What do you mean? That you`ll pay for how many commercials you want to watch?
KILEY: Right. Here`s where I think the model is going, and it`s probably going to take us 10 years to get there, but it`s a great model, I think, which is.
BECK: David, I`m sorry. Folks, if you haven`t tried a wig from Carcass Caps, you do not know what having hair feels like. Have hair again, Carcass Caps.
All right. David, go ahead. You were saying?
KILEY: I was saying, as I`m sitting here in my Palm Beach sport jacket that the model that we`re going to, and I think it`s a terrific model, and we`re going to get there, I think, in about 10 years, maybe by 2020, is that you will be able to almost select the categories of products that you are actually interested in seeing through your cable system.
So, for example, you might get your cable bill or you`ll go to a Web site, and you`ll be able to say that you are interested in power tools, in travel, in swimming pools, in razors, let`s say.
BECK: So there is another way, I`m never going to have to sit through those uncomfortable commercials with mom and her daughter on the beach?
KILEY: Exactly. Or, my best example of the waste of advertising that people are fed up with is why should I be sitting through dog food commercials if I don`t have a dog? Why, if I`m sitting at home alone, should I be watching ads for cosmetics, you know, unless I have a hobby that I don`t want people to know about.
But it`s the irrelevancy of ads that people are really fed up with, and that`s why they blast through commercial breaks after they record a program on TiVo.
BECK: David, thanks a lot. We`ll talk again, and thanks to my magazine Fusion Magazine, a combination of entertainment and enlightenment for making that segment possible.
Right now let`s talk about Michael Vick. His lack of arm strength really not what is getting him in trouble. Terrible passing accuracy, not so much. Charges of sponsoring a dog in an animal fighting venture. Yes, that`s kind of a big problem. Now you may have to think again if you think that`s his biggest problem.
Tony Taylor, I would assume he is his now former friend, appeared in court yesterday to plead guilty for his role in the dogfighting ring. As part of the plea agreement, Taylor will cooperate fully with the government`s case against Vick and his appropriately named enterprise, Bad Newz Kennels.
Newz is spelled with a Z, which is so clever. According to the documents signed by Taylor, he believes that the dogfighting and associated gambling were, quote "almost exclusively funded by Vick." Uh oh, not a prosecutor, but I am a thinker, and that sounds like trouble.
Meanwhile, as so often happens with any case involving anybody famous, people and organizations starting to take sides already. Standing behind Michael Vick is -- well, there`s Michael Vick, and, oh, and the NAACP.
Standing on the other side, the eclectic group encompassing NIKE, Reebok, hip-hop mogul Russell Simmons, Al Sharpton, and PETA. Sounds like the plot of a bad sitcom, doesn`t it?
PETA also recently sent a letter to the NFL, Vick`s corporate sponsor, and the Atlanta Falcons, condemning dogfighting as cruel, but unlike most letters that come from PETA, which are about things like living in harmony with pigeons, and I`m not kidding you, it`s on our Web site right now, check it out, this one might actually be read by its recipients. Dan Shannon is the assistant director of campaigns at PETA.
Dan, this is really hacking me off because this is the second time I`ve had in a couple of months on a separate issue I`ve had PETA on, and I agree with you guys. And I think I need therapy.
DAN SHANNON, PETA: Well, you know, I hope you are living harmoniously with pigeons while are you getting your therapy. And no -- hey, we appreciate the support.
BECK: Yes. Well, listen, it`s never about left or right, it`s about right and wrong, and dogfighting is sick and cruel, and it is apparently something that others in the NFL are into. This is a big deal, isn`t it?
SHANNON: Well, supposedly. We`ve got a couple of former NFL athletes, a guy named Nate Newton was arrested at a dog fight in 1991. A guy named LeShon Johnson actually did prison time on a dog fight rap after his NFL career was over a few years ago.
I think that most NFL athletes are just as disgusted by dogfighting as you are or I am. I don`t want to say that it`s an epidemic, but it certainly seems like this is something the league needs to look a lot more strongly into.
BECK: And these dogs are to be destroyed now, don`t they?
SHANNON: Unfortunately, that`s the truth. I mean, you can`t take a dog who has been trained to be a vicious killer and expect them to live in a home with a small child or with another animal or...
BECK: OK. I`m sorry, didn`t mean to interrupt you. I just have to ask you, Dan, because you sound -- look at you. You are normal-looking. You are normal-looking, God bless you. You sound reasonable.
SHANNON: I appreciate the compliment.
BECK: Yes. But then, I mean, let`s take it down to this. Do you remember Petey, the dog in "Little Rascals" with the big circle around his eye?
SHANNON: Sure. Sure.
BECK: I mean, that`s entertainment with dogs. Are you somebody who says that`s enslavement of Petey, or are you reasonable enough to say, that`s a lot different than the dogfighting thing?
SHANNON: I mean, it`s certainly a lot different than dogfighting. Petey wasn`t thrown into the ring and torn to shreds by any other animals, and that`s ultimately.
BECK: OK. But you don`t want to liberate Petey?
SHANNON: No. I think Petey is probably doing just fine.
SHANNON: And millions of Americans have been outraged by this issue. I think just as you said, this cuts across all boundaries. Nobody here is going to stand up and defend dogfighting.
BECKL May I ask you this question, because you may know, I ask this seriously. Is there a case of a good pit bull? I mean, I don`t understand the whole breed. Are pit bulls just nasty to begin with and then crazy people make them worse, or is there -- have there been cases of pit bulls, you know, with like the whiskey jug underneath in the Alps saving people?
SHANNON: Absolutely. In North Carolina, near our headquarters, we deliver free doghouses to underprivileged communities. I have met dozens of maybe hundreds of nice, pleasant pit bulls. The way that we look at it is that there are no bad dogs.
There are bad people. And there are bad people who abuse dogs, and they torture them. And they do all these horrible things to them that make them violent and vicious and aggressive.
BECK: What should happen to Michael Vick?
SHANNON: Well, he should be tried in a court of law, and if he is found guilty, he should go to prison, and there`s 40,000 other professional dogfighters out there in the United States that the same thing should happen to.
BECK: I agree with you. I can`t believe I said that.
SHANNON: We heard you say it, Glenn. It`s on TV now.
BECK: I know. Thanks a lot, Dan, I appreciate it. That`s "The Real Story" tonight.
Coming up, the truth about bottled water. Yes, yes, I know. Most of it comes from the tap. But we`ll uncover how it gets to the tap into the bottle. You don`t want to miss our special investigation. Water, it might just be the death of you.
BECK: Just a few miles from this building here in New York City, Brooklyn, New York, a proposed dual-language Arabic school set to open this September that has got a lot of people upset here in New York. New York Sun editorial has referred to the school as a madrassa, which is an Islamic religious school. Others have questioned the background and the beliefs of the school`s principal.
Supporters and the city say that this is just another case of Islamophobia. The school will use approved curriculum, approved textbooks, and a diverse group of teachers to "prepare students of diverse backgrounds for success in an increasingly global and interdependent society."
So which is it? I have to be honest with you, I`ve been wanting to do this story for months. We have been calling and calling and calling, and no one will talk to us. Residents, are they being overly concerned simply because the language is Arabic, which is unreasonable, or do they have valid points that the city needs to address?
I`d like some answers. We`ve asked the school`s principal to come on over and over, but she has declined. We have to settle now for the critic`s side of the story from Pamela Hall. One of the organizers of the Stop the Madrassa Coalition.
Pamela, you apparently have been having a hard time getting people to answer simple questions as well. Let`s start with the principal. I read an article where she would not answer the question if Arabs were responsible for 9/11.
PAMELA HALL, STOP THE MADRASSA: Absolutely. That was one of the original situations that we know about with her, that she was going out teaching sensitivity classes after 9/11. I think that was at Cobble School -- Cobble Hill School.
And she said, no, you must not call them Muslims, you must not call them Arabs. That would create a backlash. We can only call them terrorists -- no. She is an apologist, and it`s clear that`s what she is.
BECK: Has she gone on record -- I mean, I`m convinced that you separate politics from Islam, and things become a lot better. You empower women in Islam, and things -- the whole world changes. Sharia law is a frightening, frightening thing, especially for women. Is she on the record talking about Sharia law at all?
HALL: Well, one of our Stop the Madrassa members did meet her at a meeting when she opened her Yemeni Association, and did ask her about how was she going to be teaching the cultural side of the Arabic language and asked her about Sharia, and she wouldn`t even answer it. She said she didn`t know what Sharia was. How disingenuous. I mean, at least answer the question.
BECK: OK. So if this is an Arabic school that`s just teaching the language Arabic, why don`t they just -- instead of starting a new school, why don`t we just teach Arabic in schools?
HALL: Wonderful idea. That`s exactly what we would like to ask. We can`t even get a straight answer from Mayor Bloomberg, from Chancellor Klein. We just get brushed away. And, of course, we have a large school system where we could be putting Arab -- the Arabic language as an elective in the schools. We could open the door to learning Arabic to our American students.
We would still want to know, who are her students? She has not filed any of the papers she`s supposed to file.
BECK: Well, we understand that there is no enrollment so far. That there hasn`t been any children that have enrolled.
HALL: It depends on who you talk to. She tries to say that they`ve capped it and that it`s full enrollment, but we don`t even know what that means. She has not filed any of her papers. We don`t know what her curricula is. We don`t know who her faculty is. We don`t know who the students are.
I want to know, we want to know, are those students Arabic speakers? And if they`re Arabic-speaking students, why do they even need the school? Shouldn`t they be assimilated?
BECK: OK. Why -- I mean, a lot of people will say you`re the reason why we need a school like this because, you know, it`s just your hate- mongering and your constant questioning. And I guess that, you know, they would paint you as somebody who believes the worst of Arabic-speakers and not the best of Arabic-speakers.
How would you respond to that?
HALL: Well, that`s not our criticism. Our criticism is the use of the tax dollar. We`re asking why is all the new equipment that`s going to be given to a brand new school like KGIA, new computers and a new gym and a new cafeteria, why isn`t that being given to the students who already are in that school, our students in Boerum Hill?
Why aren`t they not being given that equipment and then create the elective? Let us learn Arabic. We have nothing against learning Arabic.
BECK: Pamela, thank you very much. I would like to put a plea out to the other side. I would love to interview the principal. You know, why can`t we have an open conversation about this school and get down to the bottom of it so we can put aside all the fears?
All right. Let`s take a left turn here and introduce you to a woman who is bringing special needs children out of the shadows of Muslim society and into full lives. She`s today`s "CNN Hero."
DINA ABDEL WAHAB, "CHAMPIONING CHILDREN": I remember when my son was born eight years ago, I didn`t hear anything about inclusion (ph) in Egypt.
Very good reading, Ali (ph).
We first learned that Ali had Down`s Syndrome when he was 3 months old. And, of course it took us some time to really learn what to do.
And we did a lot of research. We went to the States and we did some programs for Ali. And it was to my surprise when I went there to see the children with special needs were just integrated into the main school system and they went in the same classroom with the other children.
If it can happen around the world, it should happen here. And this is how The Baby Academy started.
I was absolutely convinced if you want to talk about mainstreaming and if you want to talk about the inclusion of children with special needs, you have to start at the very young age. You need to prepare him academically, you need to prepare him socially.
It has prepared the children who don`t have special needs to be with their peers in the classroom and accept their differences.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It has taught us to see disability in a new and different light and to learn how to deal with it in a positive way.
WAHAB: Because it was a new concept in Egypt and because not everybody really understood, can they really be together? We have prepared and opened the doors for them to see things in a different perspective.
If you really believe that it is a right for every child to have a proper education and just seeing that there is a shift in mentality now is a plus and is hope for the future, and not only for Ali, but for all other children.
BECK: Ah, yes. I don`t know if you have heard this, but bottled water has been taking a beating in the last couple of days. First, several cities, including New York, San Francisco, have launched campaigns to convince residents to stop buying bottled water because supposedly it contributes to global warming. Now PepsiCo, makers of Aquafina, have agreed to print on their labels the truth about where they get their water from, which, I mean, it`s not from this little picture here with the mountains where the sun is setting, it`s not?
Hope you`re sitting down, Aquafina actually is tap water. Yes. Same with Dasani. In defense, PepsiCo issued a statement saying that their water goes through a rigorous, highly complex seven-step process. Kind like the rocks coming down off that mountain.
If I may, I could take you through some of the seven steps. Step one, buy a garden hose, OK? You can`t just buy garden hoses anywhere. You have to go to a place that sells them. I have hardware stores. They tell me you can get one of these things.
Then you have to attach the garden hose to the faucet which is outside of your house. Not as easy as it sounds. There is a specific technique that the people at Aquafina use. I believe you turn the hose counterclockwise. I`m sorry. No. I`m sorry. You`re right. It`s clockwise. Righty-tighty, lefty-loosey. Remember that, it`s very important.
Now, step three, unwind the garden hose. Again, harder than it sounds. The hose, they tell me, has a tendency to tangle and get wedged in the reel and it`s -- I mean, please, be careful. We`re dealing with water.
Step four, turn the water on. Now here you are going to have to remember to turn the handle in the opposite direction than what you turned when you attached the hose. We`re not all nuclear physicists here. I hope somebody is writing it down.
Step five, wait for the water to travel from the tap to the end of the hose. Now, this can take some time depending on the length of hose and your local water pressure, so, please, be patient.
Step six, take the bottle with the water and fill the bottle with water. The entire bottle. Now, the liquid -- I don`t know if you can see this, it`s clear. So this will be difficult to master to see how much is in there.
Step seven, put the cap on the water. I mean, you know, $1.50 is what they`re charging. That`s a bargain. I`m exhausted already. You know? I can just use some of this bottled -- mmm. It tastes leak it did when I was growing up in the city. Oh, that`s great.
This was the death of commonsense. This was the death of commonsense when we started paying for tap water.