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Glenn Beck
Barry Bonds Hits Record Setting Home Run; Imus to Make a Comeback?; Store Owner Forced to Close for Not Speaking Spanish
Aired August 08, 2007 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE PAGLIARULO, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, meet the new home run king.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bonds, it`s high!
PAGLIARULO: Barry Bonds juices one out of the park and into the record books. But will his record forever be tainted by claims of steroid use?
Plus, is the I-man making a comeback? A new report says Don Imus is now poised to return to the air. But can America forgive and forget?
And chaos in the Big Apple as New York City is crippled by a rainstorm. A little moisture causes the city to fall like a house of cards. Is New York ready to handle a real disaster?
All this, and more, tonight.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PAGLIARULO: Hello, America, I`m Joe Pagliarulo, Joe Pags, in for the vacationing Glenn Beck.
And we begin tonight with Major League Baseball`s new home run king. Sort of.
With more than 43,000 fans there to cheer him on, Barry Bonds waited until the bottom of the fifth inning to make history. Bonds launched his 756th home run deep into the right center field stands, 435 feet, ending Henry "Hank" Aaron`s 33-year reign as the home run king.
The very emotional Bonds addressed his history-making performance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARRY BONDS, PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL PLAYER: I want to thank you all. I`ve got to thank my teammates for their support through all this. You guys have been strong. And you`ve given me all the support in the world. And I`ll never forget it, as long as I live. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAGLIARULO: I know this is mean, but he sounds kind of like Mickey Mouse there for me.
But despite the accolades, fireworks and fans, there was a shadow hanging over the entire thing at the AT&T stadium in San Francisco last night.
Since 2000, Bonds has been dodging charges that he uses steroids. Remember, it wasn`t until he was 35, usually about the age when batters start to slow down, that Bonds` home run average actually started to skyrocket. He`s hit 311 of them over the past eight seasons. He`s been injured for a lot of that time.
I`m not sure of the significance, but baseball commissioner Bud Selig did not make an appearance at last night`s game. Apparently, he was too busy planning to meet with chief steroids investigator George Mitchell.
Another conspicuously absent notable, Hank Aaron himself. He didn`t show up in person, but he did offer a very classy video message of congratulations.
Regardless of the controversies, it was a big night for Bonds, a big night for baseball. But will it have an asterisk in the history books?
John Donovan is a senior writer at SportsIllustrated.com. And Tom Stanton is a baseball historian, the author of "Ty and the Babe".
John, we start with you. You were at the game last night. Why don`t you set it up for us?
JOHN DONOVAN, SENIOR WRITER, SPORTSILLUSTRATED.COM: Well, I think everybody was looking forward to this. Everybody in San Francisco, for a long time. And it played out exactly how they wanted it to play out: 43,000 fans on their feet.
Bonds got a couple of hits the first couple of times up. So everybody was kind of expecting that this might be the night. And he got up and got a full count from this young left-handed pitcher, Mike Bacsik. Laid it out into right center field, 435 feet away, and everybody went wild.
It worked perfectly for Barry Bonds and the Giants.
PAGLIARULO: I`ve got to tell you this. I watched it -- I watched it live when he hit the home run. And this guy just gave them a meatball. I think I might have been able to hit that ball. If anything, you wanted to go something low and outside and maybe a little off-speed. Man, this was a great fastball.
And you knew Barry was going to get it. When you saw the ball fly out of the stadium, did you really think of the implications, or were you watching faces of people?
DONOVAN: I was watching -- right, I was watching Bonds mainly. You knew as soon as that ball smacked, that it was gone. And you heard, obviously, the roar from the crowd. They roared on the earlier pop-up a couple of days earlier. But they knew this one was gone.
And then you just watched Bonds, and Bonds was just like Bonds always is. He put his hands in the air. He stood there for a while and then took his time going around the bases.
PAGLIARULO: You know, I want to talk about the history of this for a second, Tom, if I can, with you.
I was reading up some on Babe Ruth today, and Mark Maguire and the people who got the certain amount of home runs per at-bats. And before we get all technical about it, Barry Bonds is not, according to that stat, the most prolific home run hitter in history. Actually, Mark Maguire is, who many say was on steroids, too.
But when you look at what Hank Aaron has meant to this game for so long and the time in our history in America when he did it, there`s really no comparison to what Barry Bonds did last night, is there?
TOM STANTON, BASEBALL HISTORIAN: No, Hank Aaron broke ground. I mean, he was pursuing the home run record of the most mythologized white sports legend in America, in a state, Georgia, which at the time still had a segregationist for lieutenant governor.
And so you have to keep in mind that Aaron was pursuing this record under threat of death.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
STANTON: Every series he played in that year, there were death threats hanging over his head. So that was a very different time and a different experience.
PAGLIARULO: Tom, I`ve got to ask you this. Again, as n historian, Barry Bonds was a great baseball player before he came back like 30 pounds heavier, full of muscle in 2000, 2001, that era, when he started hitting, you know, 70 home runs a year, and people were walking him, you know, three times a game.
Before all of that, he was already a great player, already a many times V.P. of his league. He was a shoo-in for the hall of fame event, was he not?
STANTON: Yes, he was heading there, certainly. But as you pointed out, after age 35, the guy starts hitting home runs in every nine at-bats, which contrasts to his statistic prior to that time, which was one every 16 at-bats, I believe.
PAGLIARULO: Yes, right. Right. And now I think his average is one every 11 or 12 at-bats. But the question now has to be will in fact he be elected, selected to go to the hall of fame the first time he`s available, 756 is an incredible number. He`s going to hit more than that. He`s not done yet.
Is he a shoo-in for the first ballot, or will he get the Mark Maguire treatment?
STANTON: I think he`s a shoo-in right now. If something develops, there are indictments that come down. It`s all up in the air. But at this time, I think he has a hall of fame career, undoubtedly.
PAGLIARULO: John, I`ve got to know. He did this in San Francisco on purpose, clearly, right? He wanted to do it there, didn`t he?
DONOVAN: He definitely wanted -- wanted to do it there. There were a lot of people who thought that he was maybe pulling some pitches, as it were, in the previous road trip he was on.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
DONOVAN: He had 755 Saturday down in San Diego. And then sat out Sunday. So you know, he had seven games here to do it, and it took him two.
PAGLIARULO: Was it the lead story in all the San Francisco media on television last night? Was it the lead story for everybody?
DONOVAN: Yes. It`s the lead story just about everywhere in this state, I think, right now. And probably rightfully so. But people have been waiting for it, looking forward to it for a long time.
PAGLIARULO: If Barry Bonds weren`t such a jerk, and that`s my perception, I don`t know the guy, he just seems to be very standoffish, extremely arrogant. He said this is not tainted. You know, he`s been surly about this entire thing.
If he were Sammy Sosa in 1998, would we all be much happier about this today?
DONOVAN: I think it would certainly help. But the fact of the matter is, you have to look at the evidence out there, the evidence that was put forth in the book "Game of Shadows", many other things.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
DONOVAN: The fact that a federal jury is still looking into perjury charges against him. You`ve got to look at the whole body of work there. I don`t think Barry Bonds has done himself any favors, either in front of the media or not in front of the media. I think he`s got nobody to blame for how he`s perceived right now but himself.
PAGLIARULO: Tom, I watched Henry Aaron hit that home run. I wasn`t in Fulton County Stadium. I was watching it on television, or I saw the replay or something. I remember when I was a kid I saw this happen.
And just the way that he carried himself was so different than the way many athletes carry themselves today. Again, last night I was surprised by one thing. When the announcer said, now there`s a very special message from a very special man, were you taken aback that it was Hank Aaron?
I was actually mad at him for a second when I saw that Hank was going to take part in this, and then I was happy about it later. Were you surprised like I was?
STANTON: I was a little bit surprised. Because I think all of us know that he really doesn`t feel warmly towards Barry Bonds and the situation.
But, you know, it is reflective of Aaron`s personality. He`s a very dignified, decent person, and it just fits with the way we think of him.
PAGLIARULO: Well, it shows that he respects the game, he respects the fans of the game.
And you know what I like about what he did? He sort of didn`t put it really on Barry Bonds. Barry Bonds did a great thing, and I respect the fact that he has -- there`s a new home run king now. But then he said, you know what, kids? You can achieve anything.
That was kind of -- was that sort of a sleight against Barry Bonds or maybe making a very positive thing out of something that could be sort of sullied because of all the news reports that have been going on for the last five or six years?
STANTON: Well, hopefully making a positive statement. But those words were selected very carefully. You could read between the lines of what was said and what wasn`t said. And he chose those words intentionally.
PAGLIARULO: Hey, John, does it make a difference that Bud Selig wasn`t there? Because what was it, Bowie Kuhn back in `74? He wasn`t there, was he?
DONOVAN: No, Bowie wasn`t there. Yes, I don`t think it makes a difference. In a lot of ways, I think that the -- that too much was made out of it.
Bud Selig clearly didn`t want to be here any more than Hank Aaron wanted to be here. But he sent some representatives. He talked to -- to Barry Bonds afterwards and gave him his congratulations. But he, too, couched his words pretty carefully.
PAGLIARULO: Well, I`m not trying to start trouble, although that`s the way it`s going to come off. The fact is, Bud Selig can take a lot of the responsibility for a lot of the steroids era. Can he not? I mean, they had to know in 1998 that something was going on.
There have been allegations that the juice -- that the ball has been juiced for a long time now. But when Mark Maguire and Sammy Sosa were being heralded and received in every part. Come on, when Mark Maguire hit number 62, the Chicago Cubs shook his hand and slapped on the rear end as he passed by.
Last night, all the nationals did this. Nobody was even going to look at Barry Bonds. Didn`t baseball bring this upon themselves with all the steroid era to try to pull people back after the strike?
STANTON: There`s a lot of -- I`m sorry.
PAGLIARULO: Go ahead.
STANTON: I was going to say, undoubtedly. You know, a lot of it came as a result of the congressional testimony. I think that was what really changed the tide and changed how people viewed the situation.
PAGLIARULO: Hey, John, I`ll give you the last word. Go ahead.
STANTON: There`s a lot of blame to go around here, obviously. The media for not going after him a little harder. The commissioner and the commissioner`s office for not seeing what it was.
And I think the first blame, if you`re going to point a finger at people, you`ve got to go to the players themselves who juiced up. And probably knew they shouldn`t be doing it.
PAGLIARULO: And bottom line is, guys, there`s a new home run king, whether we like it or don`t like it. John, Tom, thank you very much.
STANTON: Thank you.
PAGLIARULO: We want to know what you think about this. Do you think Barry Bonds` home run record needs an asterisk? Go to CNN.com/Glenn right now and cast your vote.
Coming up right here, it`s been nearly four months since Don Imus was kicked off the airwaves for his racial remarks. But now that the dust has settled, is he planning a comeback? I`ll have all the latest details for you.
Plus the upcoming bilingual debate gives a clear advantage to Spanish- speaking candidates. But should we be catering to a specific demographic?
And torrential rains swamp the Big Apple. The chaotic scenes raise serious questions about our ability to deal with disaster. Just how ready are we really? You`ll find out when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GLENN BECK, HOST: And the rap that`s coming out now, far more offensive, far more insidious than anything Don Imus ever said. If you look at the lyrics, of rap artists, it`s really disgusting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Glenn Beck, y`all.
BECK: This is why I`m hot, catch me on the block, every other day, another bitch, another drop (ph). I`m a -- I`m a be pimping.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yeah.
BECK: I don`t be slipping. When it come down to these hos, I don`t love them. We don`t cuff `em. Man, that`s just the way it goes.
Is anybody uncomfortable yet?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAGLIARULO: Coming up, presidential debates in Spanish? I`ll tell you why that`s a bad idea for the country, for our political process, and for immigrants.
But first, Don Imus. If you thought his career was over, think again. The rumor mill has begun to turn, with many insiders saying the shock jock could make a comeback, and soon.
And it wouldn`t be the first time. This guy`s overcome drug problems, health scares and other infamous career issues. As one writer put it, he`s got a cockroach`s knack for survival. Although I think some just prefer to call him a rat.
If you somehow don`t remember the scandal that removed the veteran shock jock from the airwaves, let me refresh your memory. This past April, Imus called the Rutgers women`s basketball team, quote, "nappy-headed hos." He was subsequently canned from his radio show under intense public and media pressure, even after repeated apologies.
Now he`s hired Lenny Bruce`s lawyer, a veteran First Amendment lawyer. And word on the street is that Imus is carefully, quietly planning to take another shot at the mic.
But does this guy deserve another chance? If he got his radio show back, would people listen to it?
Joining me now, Earl Ofari Hutchinson, a national syndicated columnist, and Bob Kolker, a contributing editor for "New York" magazine who recently wrote an expose on Imus` comeback, including that line about cockroaches.
Bob, thank for the line. And I wonder. He`s coming back, isn`t he? There`s no question here, right?
BOB KOLKER, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NEW YORK": Sooner or later. He`s just too determined. He doesn`t want the, quote, "nappy-headed hos" to be his epitaph.
PAGLIARULO: And right now for his career it is. But that raises a question in my mind. My parents listened to Don Imus as I was a kid on Long Island, New York. They listened to Don Imus for years. He`s been doing this, what, 40 years? And this was honestly nothing new from him. Had he not said that line, maybe his listeners would have said, what the heck happened?
Why did he crumble under the pressure? Was it because he was apologizing -- he would go out in the street and say, "I apologize." Is that what did it for him?
KOLKER: A lot of the people who were on Imus` side of things would argue that the minute that he caved in under pressure, that that was exactly what the problem was.
But I think there`s a bigger institutional issue here, too. Ever since WFAN was -- became under the ownership of CBS, suddenly there was a new accountability in place.
PAGLIARULO: OK. I want to go to the other guest here -- real quick here. And you know, I`ve got to tell you something. In watching this Don Imus thing explode, implode, watching his career, you know, get swept under the carpet and he`s just a big white racist piece of garbage, the fact that he`s coming back, who`s going to be mad about this?
EARL OFARI HUTCHINSON, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Well, I think that a lot of people will be mad about it. Certainly, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, certainly a lot of African-Americans, maybe even the women`s coaches at Rutgers and also the women`s basketball team. And a lot of African- Americans.
But let me tell you this. My take on it from day one, Don Imus should have stayed on the air. Don Imus should have stayed on the air because when you really look at the state of talk radio in America today, and Don Imus certainly is not the typical shock jock, when you really look at it, a lot of things are said that, quote unquote, "are offensive."
What did Don Imus say that was really offensive? And also, when he did his mea culpas, he repented, I mean, he did everything under the sun. That sent a signal right there that here`s a guy that really took what people said seriously, and there was a sensitivity to it.
So I always said, look, Don Imus is in a good position to make a difference in talk radio. And we also know something else. When it comes to issues of race and politics, Don Imus is one of the best. So I always said, Don Imus is probably better on the air than off the air.
PAGLIARULO: Earl, you know, you say that. The reason -- half the reason Don Imus is off the air is because he went and apologized to Al Sharpton on his little radio show that nobody listens to, gave Al Sharpton all the power. And let Al Sharpton basically put his finger on the plug of that microphone and yank it out.
Sharpton actually thinks he`s so powerful now that he has said, I`d be OK with Imus coming back. I`d have to examine the situation, but I`d be OK about that.
Is it that Don Imus, after four decades, doesn`t understand the business yet?
HUTCHINSON: I think partly that. But let`s deal with Al Sharpton, and public opinion. Al Sharpton basically is reflecting what a lot of African-Americans are saying. I`ve got to tell you, I`ve heard that over and over again. Get rid of the bum. Get him off of there. He`s racist.
And I would tell people, OK, I know Al is saying that. You`re saying that. And others are saying that. But have you listened to others in talk radio? Have you really listened to Don Imus?
And after saying that, I have to say this: in terms of the business, Don Imus, I think, understands the business. I think where he went wrong was he stepped over a line and didn`t anticipate the backlash because of the business element.
PAGLIARULO: Well, I`ve got to tell you this. I disagree in that -- in that Al Sharpton was reflecting anything. I think that Al Sharpton actually gave that opinion to a lot of people who were listening.
Saying "nappy-headed hos" was wrong, because of who he directed it at. Had he just said those -- those words on face value, guess what? I just said it seven times in the lead-in to you guys, and I`m not going to get fired. I`m not going to get in trouble now. And Al Sharpton`s not coming after me.
He thought he gave public opinion. I say he gave the public that opinion. And he goes forward every single day when he wakes up in the morning and says, how can I further divide the people here in this country?
Robert, I want to get -- I want to get a little more from you on this. Don Imus has been doing this for 40 years. I cannot bring this out enough. I`m a talk radio host. I would have never said "nappy-headed hos". Not the kind of show that I do. I don`t think what he did readjusted my show even an iota.
But this was the man`s show. And this goes to why he`s probably going to win this lawsuit, because CBS and MSNBC, everybody knew that he did this kind of show, right?
KOLKER: That`s the most ingenious thing about his legal strategy ever since he was fired. He found a lawyer, Martin Garvis, who defended Lenny Bruce. And they crafted a legal complaint together that still hasn`t been filed.
But even without it being filed, it`s accomplished a lot. It brought CBS back to the bargaining table. And because the argument was so ingenious. Here`s what it says basically.
It says that CBS, his employer, said that he could say whatever he wanted. So that he was supposed to be risque. He was supposed to, you know, get people offended...
PAGLIARULO: In fact, if he weren`t risque, Robert, I mean, he could have been fired for not being risque enough, right?
KOLKER: Exactly. And also it argues that nothing Imus said is in violation of FCC standards. And that much is true.
PAGLIARULO: Hey, Earl, I want to take about ten seconds here. This is going to be the most listened radio program ever in the life, isn`t it, when he comes back?
HUTCHINSON: Absolutely. Bring the guy back. I`ve got to tell you, the ratings would just go off the chart.
You know, when they did the poll with "The New York Daily News", guess what, about 95, 90 percent of persons -- individuals said, "Let`s bring Don Imus back." Huge fan base. We know that he`s going to make an impact. And by the way, he will be back.
PAGLIARULO: All right. And you`re going to be listening, right, Earl?
HUTCHINSON: Absolutely. Why not?
PAGLIARULO: Bob -- Earl, Bob, thank you very much. Appreciate that.
Coming up right here, evidently, English-only isn`t only controversial from the consumer side of the equation. A Florida man claims he`s being forced to shut down his small business because he doesn`t speak Spanish. He`ll join me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO: A Florida store owner is claiming that he`s being evicted because he doesn`t speak Spanish. For those of you checking, that`s right. It`s in Florida, not Guadalajara, not Mexico City, not Cabo San Lucas, right here in the good old U.S. of A.
Seacoast Water owner Tom McKenna, who`s rented his store space for over seven years, received a letter just last month from landlord Evan Monroe (ph), saying Monroe wants, quote, "quality tenants serving the Spanish need in our area." I wonder if he wrote that in Spanish. I don`t think so.
Tom McKenna joins me now.
Tom, what exactly does that mean that you got in that letter?
TOM MCKENNA, EVICTED STORE OWNER: I guess it means basically I don`t fit the criteria of what Mr. Monroe`s vision is of having a plaza that`s going to basically meet -- meet the needs of the Spanish community in that area.
PAGLIARULO: You must be -- you must be in Little Havana in Miami, right? You must in -- right on the border of Del Rio right there in Texas. I mean, you`re not somewhere up the coast in Florida, are you?
MCKENNA: Well, you know, you would think the way that letter was basically presented to me, that would be the case. But no, that`s not.
PAGLIARULO: You`re in like the Stewart area, right?
MCKENNA: That`s correct.
PAGLIARULO: OK. So Stewart is going to be north of Palm Beach County, for those of you who are watching at home. It`s way north of Miami. It`s way north of Fort Lauderdale. This is not where usually you get, like, people on boast, refugees from Cuba. This is a place where most people, I`m gathering speak, what, English?
MCKENNA: That`s correct. I would say probably 98.9 percent of the businesses around there speak English. Perhaps except for my plaza.
PAGLIARULO: OK. So in your plaza, all the other businesses have Spanish language signs. Has he specifically asked you to make your sign in that language?
MCKENNA: No, he hasn`t. But he -- he made perfectly clear, though, that one of the reasons why he wants us to move from that location is because, No. 1, the sign out front is not in Spanish.
PAGLIARULO: I`ve done a little checking here, and it turns out he thinks you`re a bad tenant. After seven years he`s decided that you`re not paying the rent on time, you`re leaving your forklift out all over the place. You`ve got to go because you`re not getting it done right. Is this the case?
MCKENNA: Absolutely not. You know, we`ve had some issues with our forklift and maybe some storage from outside salt (ph), but Mr. Monroe has gotten his rent on time every month from me.
In fact, if I`m such a bad tenant, in his letter that he had given me on July 5, he had offered me another location, in an adjacent building, which is really unacceptable. But if I was such a bad tenant, why would you offer me that?
PAGLIARULO: Stop, stop. The landlord who thinks that you`re a no- good tenant and you`re not paying on time, and you just won`t play ball, and for goodness sakes, you won`t take care of the community, wants to give you a different space and still be your landlord?
MCKENNA: That`s correct.
PAGLIARULO: Come on. Clearly it`s a ruse. And the bottom line is what? You`ve got Spanish-speaking people who go and -- go to these stores right next to you in that plaza all the time, I`m gathering. Is yours the kind of a store where people would go in and buy something?
MCKENNA: Absolutely. We have walk-in customers all the time. And we don`t discriminate against any color, race or creed. I mean, we serve the community. We serve whoever wants to buy a product or have a service from my company. I`m not going to discriminate against.
In fact, we`ve got water dispensers out in front of our store that we serve day laborers and landscapers that come by to get their water filled. I don`t ask them what their ethnic, you know, background is. I`m just -- I`m glad to provide them with a service.
PAGLIARULO: OK. Have you gotten a lawyer in this case? Because you know, this clearly is a case of discrimination, without a doubt. Absolutely. I`m not a lawyer, but there`s no question about it.
MCKENNA: I`ve had several calls. In fact, we`ve got a few people that want to represent my company. But for right now, I`m not quite sure what the path I`m going to be taking on this. This has really taken an overwhelming issue all over the country.
PAGLIARULO: Well, we`ll keep -- Tom, keep us updated on how this works out. Thank you very much.
We`ll be right back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO: Coming up, a bit of precipitation in the Big Apple this morning caused chaos -- I`m talking chaos -- for thousands of New Yorkers. It illustrated just how we`re clearly not prepared for a real natural disaster, but why not? More on this in just a bit.
But first, I`m going to say something that I bet will light up the blogosphere tomorrow. I can see it already. Here it goes: We speak English in America. OK, it`s out there. So why do I bring it up now? Well, in June, the Spanish-language TV network Univision -- or "Univision" -- announced it would hold two presidential debates in the fall, one Democratic, one Republican. Sounds peachy, right?
The final details of the debate format have yet to be ironed out, but right now the understanding is that the debates will feature a simultaneous translation, questions asked and answered in English, and then simultaneously translated to Spanish for the viewer.
Look, I get it. Hispanics are the fastest-growing segment of our population and the largest-growing voting bloc here in America. One of the reasons George W. Bush won in 2004 is that he gained over 40 percent of the Latino vote, the best result ever for a Republican presidential candidate.
What does all of that tell you? The Latino vote is critical in 2008 for both parties, and you`d be an idiot to ignore it. But that`s not the point here. The point is that, when we start to separate ourselves based on what language we speak, we become a divided people. A bilingual debate is just one more reason for immigrants to not learn English, to not assimilate into our society.
Here now to help me where I`m going wrong and right about this, Joe Garcia, the director of the New Democrat Network`s Hispanic Strategy Center, and Republican strategist Robert Traynham.
Joe, let me start with you, because I can see it in your eyes, you think I`m a bigoted hatemonger, right?
JOE GARCIA, NEW DEMOCRAT NETWORK: I think you`re just plain wrong.
PAGLIARULO: OK, tell me why.
GARCIA: Because, look, you go where the people are. The truth is, you know, when you go see the sons of Italy, you try to figure out what your Italian ancestry is and you put it up front. And when you go to Univision, which is a Spanish-network station, what are you going to speak?
PAGLIARULO: I`m sorry, "Univision." But go ahead.
GARCIA: By the way, "Univision." You`re pronouncing it French. It`s "Univision."
PAGLIARULO: Oh, darn it. OK, you got me.
GARCIA: But you`re right, listen, I appreciate the attempt. The reality is, when you speak to Hispanics on a Spanish-language network, what are you going to speak in, Pig Latin? And that`s what you speak in. And when you speak a little Spanish, when you speak to a Spanish crowd, you speak in Spanish. If you speak a little Hebrew when you go to temple, you use that. And that`s the way politics works.
PAGLIARULO: Oh, that`s -- it`s a little Italian at the Italian- American club, it`s a little Hebrew at temple. You know what? You are so generalizing here that it`s not even funny.
Let`s face the fact here. The only reason we would ever do a debate in Spanish is for people who don`t speak English. And you know what? This is for the American presidency. My grandfather came off of a boat from Italy and he spoke Italian much better than he ever spoke English. He learned English as fast as he humanly possibly could so that his kids would have an opportunity in this country.
People like you, you know what you`re doing, Joe? You`re holding the immigrant down. You are taking the American dream away from the immigrants, you know why? Because you`re kowtowing, you`re enabling, you`re stopping them from being able to assimilate in society. Name me one CEO of one company in America right now that only speaks Spanish, go.
GARCIA: One CEO of one company at all?
PAGLIARULO: Of any American company today that only speaks Spanish.
GARCIA: OK, I`ll mention the world`s richest man, Carlos Slim.
PAGLIARULO: Right. Where is he from? Mexico.
GARCIA: Mexico, yes.
PAGLIARULO: He`s not the chief of an American company.
GARCIA: Look, Joe, look, you can set up these questions to be ridiculous in making a point...
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: I`m not setting anything up. There`s no -- do you see any questions written down on the screen, Joe? The problem here is that you are helping to hold immigrants down. That`s the problem.
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: They can assume the American dream. Otherwise, you`re holding them down. Go ahead.
GARCIA: You know what you`re doing? In the end, people who can`t speak English pay a price. Salaries aren`t as good. They don`t have a future, but their kids are going to speak Spanish. They`re going to move forward, just like your grandfather. When he was speaking to your grandmother, he spoke Italian. And you know what? When your grandfather came to this country, they probably pushed him down and they treated him poorly because he was an Italian. And you know what? He pushed forward. You know why? Because that`s why America is great.
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: Robert, I don`t mean to leave you out here. Joe, I`ll let you fester a little bit more and think about what a piece of garbage I am and how I hate people with brown skin.
Hey, Robert, if you would, jump in here and tell me what you think about all this.
ROBERT TRAYNHAM, GOP STRATEGIST: Well, look, Joe, first of all, I don`t have a dog in this fight, literally or figuratively. It seems like it`s a spirited debate between the two of you. Look, we are a nation of laws; we are a nation of immigrants. There`s no question about it. But the fact of the matter is, is that, if you take a look at this country, we do business in English. Our commerce is in dollars. So the fact of the matter is, is that this debate should be done in English. Why?
GARCIA: Right, on a Spanish network. It should be done in English on a Spanish network which you`re not going to watch.
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: If you don`t mind, we`ll have Robert continue a little bit, and then you can yell at me. Go ahead.
TRAYNHAM: Well, here. Look, the reason why is because we are a nation that obviously speaks English. It`s not our official language, but that`s how we do business. And if you take a look at every single presidential candidate out there, Republican and Democrat, they are speaking English. So we really should have this debate in English. It`s simple.
PAGLIARULO: And those are very good points. And, Joe, I want to throw this at you. Arnold Schwarzenegger, who came here from Austria, said stop watching Univision and Telemundo. Learn the language, because I`ve succeeded in America because I learned how to speak English.
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: What do you say to a success story like that?
GARCIA: I say fantastic. That`s America. And, by the way, Arnold Schwarzenegger supports the Kennedy-McCain legislation to legalize the 11 million people. He supports the DREAM Act. And you know why he does that? Because Hispanics are an important part. And you want to know what? Arnold Schwarzenegger spent millions upon millions of dollars in advertising to the Hispanic community because he wanted to get their vote. And..
(CROSSTALK)
GARCIA: And he got 40 percent of their vote. And you know...
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: Hey, Robert, go ahead and respond to that.
TRAYNHAM: But the issue is that we`re trying to bring people into this country legally. That`s fact number one. Also...
(CROSSTALK)
TRAYNHAM: We`re trying to bring people into this country legally. These folks want to come here legally.
GARCIA: We? When you say we, the Republican Party?
PAGLIARULO: Hey, Joe, if you`re going to keep on cutting him off, you and I can yell at each other for a little while.
GARCIA: Well, look...
PAGLIARULO: Here`s the bottom line. No, you hold on a second, because the bottom line is this. The fact that you try to make this about people being against immigrants and how Arnold Schwarzenegger embraces immigrants and a big, evil, white man like me hates them, that`s not what`s going on here. I love immigrants. I`m the product of immigrants. If the entire populace of Mexico wanted to move here tomorrow, I would be for it, as long as they do it legally.
TRAYNHAM: Legally. Legally.
PAGLIARULO: Come here, assimilate to this culture. It`s like we don`t have a culture. Why is it being stomped on? Why doesn`t American culture mean anything to people like you?
GARCIA: Oh, please, stop. American culture being stomped on?
(CROSSTALK)
GARCIA: Your grandfather added to the American culture. His Italian heritage made America better, just like the Jewish heritage made America better, Roman Catholic, Protestant, Germans, the Polish, all of those people contributed to what American culture is, which is an evolving culture that moves forward.
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: ... and continues to speak English and has a monetary system that`s based on dollars, not pesos.
(CROSSTALK)
GARCIA: By the way, just like when your grandfather arrived, the percentage of immigrants in this country was far greater than it is today. And yet America didn`t become Italian.
PAGLIARULO: Far greater, and they all learned how to speak English.
GARCIA: Of course they did.
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: Robert, go ahead.
TRAYNHAM: Hey, guys, I think we`re missing the point here. The point is that people that want to come to this country legally that are earning paycheck to paycheck, that are learning English for the first time, they want to learn English. They want to speak English. So why not have a debate in English?
GARCIA: Because Univision is a Spanish station, guy.
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: Stop, stop, stop, this is not fun for anybody listening. You have to understand, I do a radio show in San Antonio and Houston, Texas, every single day.
GARCIA: Great.
PAGLIARULO: The Hispanic population, the Latino population in the state of Texas has been a majority for some time now. I embrace the culture. I love the people. But you know what? By and large, they speak English. And if you learn how to speak English, you can succeed in the political process...
(CROSSTALK)
GARCIA: ... most Hispanics in America speak English.
PAGLIARULO: That`s right. So why are you pushing them so hard to have a Spanish-language debate? And oh, by the way, Joe, Hillary Clinton has already turned you down. She`s not going to go. Mitt Romney has already turned you down. He`s not going to go. Do you think that they`re outlandish or do you think they make sense that they want to have a political debate about politics in America in English? Go.
GARCIA: You know what the first rule of politics is? You`ve got to show up. And wherever the crowd, you show up. And the truth is, Univision on Sunday at 8:00 at night has ratings that a lot of Anglo stations would kill for. In fact...
PAGLIARULO: I`m sorry, a lot of Anglo stations? What does that mean?
GARCIA: English-language stations...
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: Am I an Anglo now?
GARCIA: Oh, come on.
PAGLIARULO: But what is that?
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: We are the American public.
GARCIA: The reality is, this is a Spanish-language station. What are they going to speak, German?
PAGLIARULO: They shouldn`t do the debate at all.
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: Robert, go ahead. Hold on, Joe. Robert, go ahead.
TRAYNHAM: Look, the reality is that these individuals out that probably listen to or watch Univision, they want to hear from the candidates in English about the issues that appeal to them.
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: Let him finish, Joe.
TRAYNHAM: It`s about health care. It`s about education. It`s about the future of Iraq. That`s what the issue here is. And the fact of the matter is, is that every single individual that`s running for president of the United States speaks English as their native tongue, and they should be able to debate in English as their native tongue.
GARCIA: You know what that is? It`s simply being ignorant.
PAGLIARULO: It`s being what?
TRAYNHAM: It`s not being ignorant.
PAGLIARULO: How is that ignorant? It`s ignorant to suggest that our political process is done 98 percent of the time in English and that people who come here from other countries should learn the language to better understand the system? You are right now stopping people from realizing the American dream, people of your own heritage.
(CROSSTALK)
GARCIA: Oh, stop being ridiculous.
PAGLIARULO: Joe, we`ve got to go. Listen, I wish that you would take an opinion next time, darn it. Joe, Robert, thanks a million.
GARCIA: Great fun, sir.
PAGLIARULO: Great segment.
GARCIA: It`s unfortunate, though, that you...
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: It`s not unfortunate. It`s unfortunate that we`re out of time. That`s about it. Bye-bye.
Up next, wild weather in New York proves that we cannot handle a natural disaster. Stick around to find out why.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO: America, thank your lucky stars you were not right here in New York City today. A major storm early this morning caused massive flooding throughout the city. It wreaked havoc on commuter trains and subways and flights even. New Yorkers were stranded for hours.
What`s incredible about the entire thing is the amount of chaos it caused. Fights were breaking out at bus stations. People were pushing and shoving, and giant cab lines at Penn Station. And thousands of people were just kind of milling around the streets hoping the subway started working again. In this very building where I`m standing, we all had to take the stairs because the elevators went out.
The bottom line, New York City was not prepared, and this was just from a storm. God forbid it were something worse than that. In just a minute, we`re going to talk to former New York City Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik about the implications after a day like today. But, first, just to give you an idea of just how crazy things got here in the city, Peter Donahue joins us, transportation reporter for the "New York Daily News."
Peter, have you seen anything this chaotic caused by something so, well, kind of minor actually?
PETER DONAHUE, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": No, we haven`t seen something like this since there was a big flood in 2004. And, obviously, we had the strike in 2005. But it`s on that level.
PAGLIARULO: I mean, people who should have been here at work hours ago are just coming in now, going the buses, the trains, everything, the mass transit, you know, every -- there`s really nothing that wasn`t affected by this today. And you think about this being the largest, the most populated area in the entire country, how can we get shut down? I was out at 4:30, 5:00 this morning. It was just a little rain.
DONAHUE: Well, actually, it was record rainfall. And it really pounded in a short amount of time. And the subway system is pretty much reliant on the city sewer system. And when the sewer system gets overloaded, there`s no place for the subways to pump the water. And, you know, it`s the basement of the city, and this happens every five years or so it seems.
PAGLIARULO: Well, record rain in that it`s never, ever been this much for one day or record that we haven`t seen it in a few years?
DONAHUE: I think in some ways it was a record, but it`s comparable to what happened in 2004 where you just have -- it`s the intensity in a short amount of time that crushed them.
PAGLIARULO: OK, so why was every single mass transit system affected by this? You would figure the buses are above ground. And except for the pictures that we`re seeing here, Manhattan wasn`t water in the streets like that. I mean, why was everything affected by this so severely?
DONAHUE: Well, every subway line was affected because, as you know, it`s an open system and it floods, you know, gets in one area, it`s all over the place. And in some parts of Queens, about two feet of water on the tracks. Then you`ve got all the subway riders pouring into buses and jamming into buses. And there`s no room there, and taxis, and it just kind of spirals from there.
PAGLIARULO: Well, adding to it, I mean, you`re hearing stories that, you know, the token takers there at the subway, they were told to tell people go to the E train, go the F train, go to the 7, go and do this. And the fact was, no trains were running. Is there not a plan at all for a situation like this?
DONAHUE: Well, I think if you can fault them for anything, it`s for the communications. I mean, if the water`s coming down that hard, there`s not much they can do, I don`t think, but, yes, they were giving out some bad information. One token booth clerk called me up from his booth and said that he was getting broadcasts in his booth from I guess his superiors, saying everything was running, but with delays. And that wasn`t the case at all. And he only found that out by calling other booths. And so even for hours, he was sending people with bad information.
PAGLIARULO: Well, Peter, listen, we appreciate the insight. Thanks a lot for that.
My question is this, if water does this to New York City, what would another terror attack do? Isn`t our infrastructure supposed to be better than what we saw today? Joining me now is Bernard Kerik, the former New York City police commissioner and chairman of the Kerik Group.
Bernie, thank you very much. In looking at this, I mean, I`m not -- it`s going to come off as flippant, but will Al Qaeda now work on water technology, maybe have it rain on us? I mean, this is kind of nuts, isn`t it?
BERNARD KERIK, FORMER NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: Well, look, Al Qaeda can look at what happened today, and they can go after the sewer system or go after the trains in general. The success of getting through a day like today is all about planning, preparation, preparedness, mock drills, tabletop exercises.
And I think Peter hit it best on the head in communications. You know, if all else fails, and the subways are jammed up and are flooded, and nothing`s working, you at least have to have a program where the people communicating a message to the commuters, they`ve got to get the right message, get the message out, be able to get that message out, and get the people moving in the right direction to get them to where they have to go.
PAGLIARULO: Well, I think the broad message that people are taking out there in the rest of America, New York City, where 9/11 happened, New York City is prepared for anything, right? And if New York City isn`t, is Dubuque ready for something? I mean, this is going to scare a lot of people when they see that the biggest city in the world or the biggest city in the country that should, in fact, be prepared for something like this, we would assume, can`t handle rain.
KERIK: You know what, Joe? This goes back to planning, preparation, preparedness on dealing with your critical infrastructure. And I`m not only talking about the subway systems and the rain today; I`m talking about the bridges and what happened two weeks ago or a week ago in Minnesota.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
KERIK: You know, we`ve got to work on our critical infrastructure. We have to make sure the money is in the budget, make sure the money`s not pulled out of the budget, and make sure that there`s routine maintenance of things like this.
The sewer system that has an impact on the subways, is there routine maintenance? Is that maintenance kept up? Is the money kept in the budget? Do the people that work on these jobs and do these things, do they have the resources that they need to do the job, you know, from the mayor`s office, the Office of Management and Budget, from the state? I think that`s what we have to look at.
PAGLIARULO: Well, I watched the mayor`s news conference today, and here`s what it appeared to be. The mayor would say, hey, and here`s Councilwoman This Person, and she`d say, "Oh, well, thank you very much, Mayor," then, here`s Councilman Whomever His Face, and here`s the president of the borough of Brooklyn or Staten Island. "Well, thank you very much, Mayor." It seemed to be a lot of glad-handing. I didn`t see anybody saying, "Here`s the plan. Here`s what we do. We know rain`s going to come here eventually, and here`s how we handle it." He actually compared it -- the mayor actually compared this to Hurricane Katrina today.
KERIK: Well, you know, that`s really up to the mayor to make that determination, but I think it`s all about planning. You know, when you look at what happened on 9/11, we didn`t have any warning. At 8:46 on the morning of September 11th was the first time we knew there was a problem. But Rudy Giuliani created the Office of Emergency Management in `96, and every month or just about every month for four years, five years, we had conducted mock drills, tabletop exercises, and everything under the sun.
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: Well, that`s exactly where I`m going with this. Well, that`s exactly where I`m going with this. There are drills. There have been drills. When you were here as a police commissioner, when Rudy Giuliani was the mayor -- and I`m not here to say Bloomberg is good or bad. I don`t live in New York. I live in San Antonio. But what was going on as far as these planning -- it`s not just for terrorism. It`s for natural events, right? Why weren`t they ready at all for this?
KERIK: Well, it should be everything. You know, planning for a disaster, crisis management should encompass any event you can think of. We never thought that they would hit the towers on September 11th, but we were prepared for just about everything under the sun. And that`s why we were so successful in getting people out of Manhattan and getting people out of the buildings, in evacuating the lower area of Manhattan. So you`ve got to really plan for everything, and that`s what goes into the planning phases.
PAGLIARULO: Yes, you know, in watching this, because you mentioned 9/11 a few times -- and, again, the job was done as best as it possibly could with no notice whatsoever on 9/11. I guess we`ve come to believe, we`ve come to feel good about it, going to sleep at night, that after such an incredibly disgusting date and a fateful day, that any planning that happened before that, as good as it might have been, we`d eight times the planning of that now, so some rain, the least of our troubles.
KERIK: Well, I think the key today, Joe, is that they have to look at today and really sit down and go over the lessons learned from today. What happened? Why? And what are we going to do about it in the future? And then address it.
PAGLIARULO: All right, Bernard, thank you very much. Appreciate the knowledge and the time today.
KERIK: Thank you.
PAGLIARULO: Coming up right here, an 82-year-old doctor finds himself in a little bit of trouble with the law after revealing a little too much of himself. Did I mention he was wearing a kilt? Stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO: Well, it`s not every day that an 82-year-old retired veterinarian finds himself in trouble with the long arm of the law. But, again, it`s not every day that a person is charged with lewd and lascivious behavior after flashing himself in front of thousands of strangers during a kilt-wearing competition. From our affiliate WHDH in Boston, Grant Greenberg reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRANT GREENBERG, WHDH CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Three thousand people show up to see men in kilts at Webster`s Celtic Festival. They just didn`t come to see what`s under them.
DAVID MCCRACKEN, 82-YEAR-OLD SCOTTISH VETERINARIAN: In Scotland, you wear nothing under the kilt.
GREENBERG: And therein lies the problem. In addition to entertaining people, 82-year-old David McCracken thought it was his job to inform.
MCCRACKEN: I turned around with my back toward the spectators gallery, bowed down, lifted my kilt at the back, and waggled my buttocks.
GREENBERG: The bare-all performance had some people laughing and others going to police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some people that complained had small children there. And that prompted the complaint itself that children shouldn`t have seen that.
MCCRACKEN: I`m only a common old working chap.
GREENBERG: The Scotsman realizes his efforts to educate went awry.
MCCRACKEN: I`m the one who learned the lesson.
GREENBERG (on screen): Which is?
MCCRACKEN: Never do that again.
GREENBERG (voice-over): McCracken`s moon may never make an appearance again.
MCCRACKEN: Whether or not I will be admitted to the Celtic festival next year remains to be seen.
GREENBERG: Just don`t expect to see him buck tradition.
(on screen): What do you have under the kilt today?
MCCRACKEN: Nothing. Naughty boy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PAGLIARULO: If actual charges are brought against him, David McCracken could be facing up to three years in jail, though I think that`s nothing compared to the wrath he`s now experiencing courtesy of Mrs. McCracken.
Now, a quick update from a story we brought you last night. It was the story of a 7-year-old girl who stood up to that armed robber at her mom`s convenience store. Police have identified the suspect as Roy Herbin, Jr., of Reedsville, North Carolina. If you know his whereabouts, the police would love to hear from you.
OK, that`s going to do it for tonight. Nancy Grace is up next. From New York, I`m Joe Pagliarulo, Joe Pags, have a good night.
END
