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Glenn Beck
Cindy Sheehan Announces Run for Congress; Judge Rules John Couey Not Mentally Deficient; Texas Atheist Objects to Moment of Silence in Schools
Aired August 09, 2007 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE PAGLIARULO, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, more Sheehan shenanigans. Cindy Sheehan gets serious about a run for Congress.
CINDY SHEEHAN (I), CALIFORNIA CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: My candidacy will put people before profit and people before politics.
PAGLIARULO: But does she stand a fighting chance against Nancy Pelosi?
Also, foul play at the Playboy mansion? Charges of sexual assault rock the Playboy empire. I`ll talk to an insider about what it`s really like at Hef`s house of hedonism.
And I`ll sit down with the legendary Don King to talk about everything from Hillary to home runs.
All this and more, tonight.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PAGLIARULO: Hello, America, I`m Joe Pagliarulo, Joe Pags, filling in for Glenn Beck.
And we begin tonight with what I like to call political lost causes. Has a nice ring to it, don`t you think? But no, I`m not talking about the Kucinich-Corvel (ph) Democratic ticket. I`m talking about Cindy Sheehan.
Today, the antiwar activist and friend of Hugo Chavez followed through with her pledge to try to oust Speaker Nancy Pelosi from office. Sheehan announcing today that she intends to run against Pelosi as an independent in the next election.
But it was just about a month ago when Sheehan made her threat saying, if the speaker didn`t go ahead and begin impeachment proceedings against the president, she would toss her hat into the political ring. Sheehan was true to her word.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHEEHAN: My candidacy will put people before profit, and people before politics. The country is ripe for a change, and it`s going to start right here and right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAGLIARULO: Cindy, weren`t you the one just this past May who said you were getting out of the limelight because you were sick of being a political punching bag? I`m pretty sure that it was you who said, "I am going to go home and be a mother to my surviving children and try to regain some of what I have lost."
So what happened to that exactly? Shouldn`t Cindy Sheehan be afraid of losing what little dignity she has left in the political cesspool that is Washington?
Joining me to talk about this, along with other political news of the day, Republican strategist Leslie Sanchez. She`s the author of "Los Republicanos". And sociopolitical commentator for NPR and "Esquire" magazine contributor, John Ridley.
All right, Leslie, so what do you think? You know, we had Cindy Sheehan making that promise that she`d go away, ride off into the sunset. And here she is, not only -- not going away. She`s going to be running for office in, of in all places -- wait for it -- San Francisco.
LESLIE SANCHEZ, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Right. No doubt about that.
You know, there`s two parts to this. One, some people cannot walk away from the political limelight. Most of her anti-war protest career has been political theater. And I think this is another example of that.
But secondly, you really have to look at the fact that a lot of Democrats turned out in November thinking they were going to get a "do something" Congress, and instead they`ve been sadly disappointed. You have a Congress that`s alienated themselves on the war, alienated themselves on health care, as well as on wiretapping.
So it`s clear that Nancy Pelosi cannot keep her troops in line, and you`ve got a lot of frustration building out there from the left.
PAGLIARULO: John, I`m wondering: does Nancy -- does Nancy -- does Cindy Sheehan have troops -- and here`s why I ask the question. In watching this, I almost felt bad for her. I think her politics are horrible. I think that she`s -- that she`s bartering with the death of her son, her son who went back to Iraq on -- because he wanted to, because he felt like he was fighting for something.
Does she have troops, or people using her and using her until there was no more using of her?
JOHN RIDLEY, NPR COMMENTATOR: In terms of whether she`s being used or not, look, I think until any of us lose a son, we can`t be sure how we`re going to react.
I think that the question that you posed earlier, is she going to lose what dignity she might have left in Washington? I don`t think Washington is the point right now. Look, she`s running to replace Nancy Pelosi in the 8th District, which is, as Leslie mentioned, it`s four-fifths of the county and city of San Francisco.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
RIDLEY: San Francisco is not like the rest of America. I don`t mean that in the pejorative, but they...
PAGLIARULO: I do.
SANCHEZ: I do.
RIDLEY: I know you do. I don`t want to end up on Media Matters tomorrow, so I`m going to....
SANCHEZ: Joe and I do.
PAGLIARULO: Go ahead, John, go ahead. Sorry.
RIDLEY: I say that as someone who lives in California. Look, we went through the recall election out here when Gray Davis was recalled. We thought it was going to be a joke.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
RIDLEY: That it wasn`t going to happen. But these things pick up momentum.
And I think the danger here, if Nancy Pelosi thinks that the people in San Francisco aren`t paying attention to how the Congress is reacting to the war, and how they`re going to deal with David Petraeus when he comes back on September 15 and if that report is negative, I think that Nancy Pelosi may have a fight on her hands. Again, San Francisco politics.
PAGLIARULO: Right. Well, Leslie, I`ve got to ask you this. Do you think that the Republicans care? Do you think that the right cares even in the least that Cindy Sheehan might get a seat from San Francisco? Which, by the way, would not be the speaker of the House seat. She would just be another representative.
SANCHEZ: Right, right. I would think that, clearly, it`s a race that people are going to watch, if not -- if anything, for entertainment. I mean, it`s somebody who`s putting a lot of pressure on Nancy Pelosi, and she`s getting it from all sides. It`s another example of her ineffective leadership in this Democratic Congress.
And I do think there`s a sad part here, you know. Very much I think Cindy Sheehan was used as a punching bag.
PAGLIARULO: Yes.
SANCHEZ: But if you talk about losing dignity, this is the woman who`s been arrested eight plus times. You know, she really looks for that type of political theater in her message. And unfortunately, that is not necessarily the way to be most effective.
PAGLIARULO: And you know, that`s a very good point. John, I`m going to ask you this. Nancy Pelosi owns about 80 percent of the vote every time she runs out of San Francisco. Is there going to be enough support for an independent candidate that can eat away at an 80 percent advantage to the incumbent?
RIDLEY: Well, according to Cindy Sheehan -- I`ve got to parse this. This is her number. She`s saying 75 percent of the people in San Francisco are anti-war and upset with Nancy Pelosi and the job that she is or not doing, depending on how you want to look at that.
PAGLIARULO: Well, I believe the first part of that. I`ll bet 75 percent are anti-war, but I don`t know that 75 percent are anti-Pelosi. You`re in California. Do you buy that?
RIDLEY: Well, look, I would look at the numbers for Congress in general. The fact that they`re lower than the president of the United States. I don`t think that this is going to be easy for Nancy Pelosi.
And by the way, you know, the question they asked earlier, do the Republicans care? I think right now they absolutely don`t care. As an as if.
PAGLIARULO: Yes.
RIDLEY: What happens if Cindy Sheehan starts to get some traction in San Francisco? What happens if Nancy Pelosi says, "You know what? To get back my seat, I may have to push forward this impeachment thing."
Obviously, impeachment doesn`t matter if Cindy Sheehan is elected. They`re out the door.
PAGLIARULO: George W. Bush will be gone.
RIDLEY: They`re out the door. But if it takes traction in the next 15 months, does it put pressure on Nancy Pelosi to start paying attention to impeachment? Which would just be problematic. Whether it`s called for or not, it`s one more massive investigation that`s going to take everybody away...
SANCHEZ: John...
PAGLIARULO: Exactly.
RIDLEY: ... from looking at what the government needs to do.
SANCHEZ: I`d agree with John in the fact that it`s just another example of ineffective leadership. She`s somebody from the beginning, when she first became leader, started to push her own agenda which was out of sync with the Congress, out of sink with America. Another example of that.
You know, if you look at even Cindy Sheehan, she`s somebody who embraces Hugo Chavez. She really pulls very much to the left. And that`s where the Democratic base is coming from these days. So you might have to wonder...
PAGLIARULO: Wouldn`t it make sense, though, guys, if she would go after the war in Iraq? Going after impeachment, making that a condition, or else I`m going to run, doesn`t make sense to me.
What makes sense to me is saying Nancy Pelosi, either you put up legislation that will stops the funding right now and get the troops out of Iraq or else I`ll run then. That`s her message, is it not, John?
RIDLEY: Absolutely. If you`re looking at things, you know, use reasonable as a delicate word there, but sometimes that`s very political and it`s going to work in a political system, I don`t think there are a lot of politicians right now who really want to go through the impeachment process. And I see it as being far too late for that.
But again, if you`re talking to a radicalized base -- and again, we`re talking about San Francisco here -- what`s really going to excite people? What`s really going to get people activated?
And again, I think it`s about activating the base and about making things difficult for Nancy Pelosi. Whether it`s going to go through or not, who knows.
PAGLIARULO: Sure. Sure. Leslie, last word. Go ahead.
SANCHEZ: No, very true. I mean, the question is, is she becoming increasingly irrelevant by pushing an agenda that talks about impeachment rather than talking about true legislative reform, how government actually works. And for her to legitimatize herself and this candidacy, she has to talk real issues.
PAGLIARULO: I think that`s the point here. All right. Thank you so much. Leslie, John, appreciate the knowledge tonight.
Coming up, a judge has ruled that convicted killer John Couey is not mentally retarded. Great. Now let`s see if he gets what he deserves for the murder of Jessica Lunsford. I`ll have all the latest.
And is the Obama girl a flip-flopper? According to the new Romney girls, she certainly is. I`ll show you the latest Internet video phenomenon. You just have to see this.
Plus, new charges of a sexual assault during a lingerie or less party at the Playboy mansion. Will this shut the door on the never-ending party that is Playboy? That, and much more. Stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO: Coming up, the Obama girl is back. And she`s under attack again. Her allegiance to the Democratic hopeful is being called into question by the Romney girls. And somehow our very own Glenn Beck is involved. I`ll have the new Internet video you just have to see.
But first, justice looks like it may finally come to John Evander Couey, the man convicted of kidnapping, raping and killing 9-year-old Jessica Lunsford in February of 2005.
Couey`s attorneys had hoped to avoid the death penalty for their client, convicted of his crimes just this past March, saying he had a diminished mental capacity and the excessive abuse he faced growing up, led to below normal functioning.
Cry me a river here. This is the man who kidnapped and repeatedly assaulted a 9-year-old girl just yards from her own home before burying her alive behind his trailer to hide his heinous crimes.
This is also the man that had the foresight to have his own niece buy him a bus ticket out of town so that he wouldn`t have to show any I.D. and could make his escape without detection. Hardly acts of below normal functioning, wouldn`t you say?
Well, clearly, Citrus County Judge Rick Howard agrees with that. In a 16-page, sharply worded ruling, Judge Howard found, quote, "The conclusion is inescapable and irrefutable that the defendant is not retarded by any legal or societal standard," end quote. Thus clearing the way for the death penalty in this case.
On August 24, he will make his final sentencing decision. A jury already recommended Couey die in a 10-2 verdict, but should diminished capacity even have been a factor here?
Criminal defense attorney Mickey Sherman is with us. Also Court TV`s Lisa Bloom. They both join me.
Mickey, let`s start with you. Should intelligence ever, ever, ever be considered when we`re talking about such a disgusting, heinous, vicious crime?
MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Not intelligence. But certainly absolute retardation. If the man is mentally retarded, if it`s the same thing as being insane, and that should be a legitimate defense.
But -- its a big but -- when the crime is so vile and so horrific and the guy is so evil and the result of what he did is just so horrific and shocking to all of our senses, his brain could be sitting outside of his kneecap, and no jury or judge is going to find that he`s in any way diminished.
PAGLIARULO: As a defense attorney, are you surprised, or do you think it makes sense that his defense attorney tried to go this route, anyway, even though he moved and didn`t register, even though he bought a ticket through a relative, even though he hid the crime the way he did? Would you still have tried this?
SHERMAN: Yes. Where else are you going to go?
The problem is that when we get cases, we get the cards that are dealt us. It`s not like we just decided to spin a wheel and let`s go with the diminished capacity. Let`s say he was in Cleveland at the time.
All we`ve got is what our clients hand deliver to us. And they`re not the brightest of people sometimes. So he had to go with whatever defense was available, even if it`s a crappy one.
PAGLIARULO: And Lisa, my friend, help me understand a piece of garbage like this, how his brain is put together. He goes after a little girl, 9 years old. He obviously stalked her, found out when the parents wouldn`t be around, stole her away, one trailer over in the trailer park.
Help me understand how we even get to the point to where he`s coloring in court and making a mockery of the system?
LISA BLOOM, COURT TV: Well, I think it`s disgusting. But I think that people who believe in the death penalty as I do, also have a responsibility to make sure that it`s administered properly, that we don`t put people to death for crimes they committed when they were a child, when they were mentally ill, when they`re mentally retarded. And that`s what the U.S. Supreme Court has said.
We don`t want to be the only country in the world that executes mentally retarded people. That`s barbaric. So this is the right -- this is the right way to handle this thing. The judge made the right move.
PAGLIARULO: Well, being an advocate of the death penalty in a case where there`s absolutely -- and I`m with you. I actually agree with you on capital punishment.
But you`ve got a 10-2 suggestion here or a recommendation from the jury. Is that going to weigh on the judge at all here?
BLOOM: Yes, it will. But I think this judge is going to come out in favor of the death penalty. This guy is the poster boy for the death penalty.
I`m glad we checked out everything about him to find out if he`s mentally retarded, to find out about his past. That`s the right thing to do. Now all the hurdles have been cleared. And I think the right thing to do is this guy gets executed.
PAGLIARULO: Hey, Mickey, do you -- do you take on a client in a high- profile case like this, take on a client and say, tell me about your childhood? Obviously, the defense attorney here said, "Let me know how you grew up here. What did Mom and Dad do to you? That might work to our advantage here."
SHERMAN: Well, Joe, you`re never going to be able to advantage (ph), but is there anything you`ve got to work with, you know? What else has he got to work with? That`s the problem. You`ve got to go with whatever the client tells you.
I mean, he doesn`t run the show, but by the same token, there`s a limited amount of defenses that are going to come close to working.
And in this case, you know, it`s -- I`m against the death penalty. But a lot of people like me are against the death penalty and we want it abolished right after we kill this guy.
PAGLIARULO: Yes, right.
SHERMAN: I call this, it`s the end of the end of the death penalty kind of case.
PAGLIARULO: Right. It makes perfect sense.
And in looking at a case like this, I mean, you`ve got a guy who`s in his late 40s, early 50s, appeared to be smiling or smirking the entire time in the courtroom. You`ve got such an impassioned father who was trying to raise this kid on his own.
And the end result is, again, all I can say is mockery of a system. And I don`t mean arrest people and put them to death. But you could make a case that anybody who kills anybody who`s serving time in prison was nuts when they did it, right?
SHERMAN: I don`t think so, no. There`s a lot of sane people who kill people for money, for greed, out of passion, domestic violence, whatever.
PAGLIARULO: Yes, but see, normal people like you and Lisa and me would never do it. So therefore, we have to assume that they`re nuts; there`s something wrong with them.
BLOOM: Yes, but criminal law of the United States, just look at the act, and you look at the mental intent, too. Because we don`t want to put people to death for things they did when they were mentally ill or mentally retarded.
We know what this guy did. We know he buried a 9-year-old girl alive after raping her and keeping her hostage for three days. I mean, that is, alone, enough for the death penalty. We`ve just got to make sure he`s got the right level of mental capacity. Now that we`ve got that...
SHERMAN: Lisa, wouldn`t you agree, though, if they had the head of the Yale psychiatric clinic came down and said this man was -- had an I.Q. of 3, you know, right above a flea...
BLOOM: A turnip.
SHERMAN: ... even still, we would still kill the guy. Wouldn`t we? I`ll bet you.
BLOOM: Well, no. No, we wouldn`t. Because the Supreme Court wouldn`t allow it. It would be unconstitutional.
PAGLIARULO: Well, I`ll jump in here. I think that we probably would. Lisa, you can repeat what I`m saying here, as well. But I mean, it doesn`t matter how dumb this guy is, you know, book smarts-wise. The fact is, the facts of the case.
He covered up the crime. He buried her alive. He had somebody else buy a ticket. And that`s why they decided this. I mean, his mental capacity probably didn`t matter as much as what he did after the fact, right?
BLOOM: Right. That`s right. But he would be in prison for life without the possibility of parole if he wasn`t put to death. I mean, no child, thank God, will be harmed by this monster again.
The only question is, are we going to use the death penalty and administer it in the most civilized way possible? I think that`s our responsibility.
PAGLIARULO: Great discussion. Great knowledge, guys. Lisa, Mickey, thank you so much.
Coming up right here, at what point does a simple moment of silence become controversial? The heated debate behind a Texas law influencing public schools that could further define the separation of church and state.
Plus, with all the constant partying going on at Hef`s Playboy mansion, I`m surprised this headline hasn`t popped up once, or twice, or five times. The LAPD investigating a possible sexual assault. Details in a bit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO: This week, we learned that people in New York City are attempting as to ban the "B" word. And you know, we can`t say the "F" word, or the "N" word. Actually, there are two "F" words you cast say.
But according to David Wallace Croft of Dallas, Texas, a self- proclaimed militant atheist, you shouldn`t be using the "P" word either, "pray." Well, at least when it comes to public education, anyway.
A state law in Texas, established in 2003, requires each school morning begin with a moment of silence. The law says students may, quote, "reflect, pray, meditate or engage in any other solemn activity," end quote. Croft claims this is unconstitutional and the word in question implies religious intent.
To help me understand where Croft is coming from is Ellen Johnson, president of American Atheists.
Hi, Ellen.
ELLEN JOHNSON, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN ATHEISTS: Hi, Joe.
PAGLIARULO: Well, you know, it`s good to have you on. And I`m wondering, how exactly is a moment of silence where you have no idea of what I`m doing, how does that indicate that I`m praying? Or how does that institute religion in school? Please help me out.
JOHNSON: But that`s not what it`s all about. The people who want this moment of silence want prayer. That`s always been the reason behind it. In fact, they can`t have you not doing anything. They can`t have children opting to do something else. It has to be about prayer.
So if they find that students aren`t praying, they`re going to encourage them to do it. The teacher`s going to pray, and other kids who do pray are going to do it loudly. And those who don`t pray are going to be identified as non-believers, as atheists. And they`re going to be set up for proselytizing and harassment, which is what usually happens.
But this is not about being fair and giving students the opportunity to do something else.
PAGLIARULO: Well, I can appreciate where you`re coming from. But absolutely -- you`re absolutely wrong here. And here`s why. I actually do a morning show in San Antonio. I do another show in Houston, Texas.
This is law in -- since 2003 in Texas. And if anybody is proselytizing or forcing kids to pray -- you and I are on the same side here -- that should not be happening. And if you`ve got individual instances where that did happen, that teacher should be reported, because there is -- that should not be establishing any religion in school.
JOHNSON: We hear these things all the time, Joe...
PAGLIARULO: Hold on. I was very calm and listened to you. Here`s the problem with your whole entire argument. If my kid, my children, I`ve got three daughters in Texas schools.
JOHNSON: Right.
PAGLIARULO: If they`re standing there silently for a moment, and they are every morning, because they do this moment of silence. And if they decide to say, "Please, God, help me with this test." Or if they decide to say, "Man, I love my iPod." If they decide to say, "Boy, that guy is pretty cute back there in the other row," that`s up to them. This is the moment of silence for them to get themselves ready for the day.
Nobody but nobody has yet in the years my kids have been in those schools, has told them to pray. Now tell me where you got that somebody is telling them to pray?
JOHNSON: Why don`t your children take care of their personal needs before they go to school? Why do we have to stop everybody -- see, this is all about having everybody see your children pray, and hear your children pray.
PAGLIARULO: No, no, it`s a moment of silence.
JOHNSON: Let me talk. Everybody`s going to stop what they do while your children pray.
PAGLIARULO: It`s a moment of silence, though. I let you talk. I promised this is going to be a nice -- a nice conversation. But...
JOHNSON: It is.
PAGLIARULO: But you just -- you`re throwing up things that are absolutely...
JOHNSON: But your children should take care of their personal business before they get to school.
PAGLIARULO: You`re throwing out patently untrue things. This is a moment of silence. I don`t know if you`ve looked up the definition lately, but silence does not mean you`re overtly, loudly and along with your teacher holding hands and praying out loud. It just doesn`t happen.
JOHNSON: You have to sit in my shoes and hear from people around the country. This is part of what goes on in the public schools. The religious -- the public schools are under siege by the religious who have to get to the kids. Nobody really seriously wants a moment of silence. They don`t want them to meditate. They want them to pray.
PAGLIARULO: I`m going to tell you what I think this is about. Ellen, I can appreciate where you`re coming from. I understand the argument. I understand the debate point.
JOHNSON: OK.
PAGLIARULO: But you`re way off base here. Here`s why.
JOHNSON: No.
PAGLIARULO: If my children are standing there silently, it`s none of your business to try to legislate what`s going on in their mind. You can`t tell me that their constitutional right to free thought is somehow affecting you or your kids and the fact that you don`t believe in God.
JOHNSON: It`s not...
PAGLIARULO: That`s your choice. I don`t want you to believe in God if they don`t want to. I don`t want you telling my kids what they can or can`t do in the classroom silently.
JOHNSON: It`s not about your kids. It`s about the ones who are praying.
PAGLIARULO: That`s the key word here.
JOHNSON: It`s not about your children, because they can pray all they want on their own.
PAGLIARULO: It is about my children. Ellen, thank you. Appreciate it. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO: Coming up, a lingerie or less party at the Playboy mansion turns into a whole lot more. Why the LAPD is now investigating claims of possible sexual assault. Details on that in just a minute.
But first, a lighter look at politics. It`s something pretty easy to look at for some: girls fighting girls. And not at the Playboy mansion.
No, it`s the most recent installment of the political girls. You know, Giuliani girl, Obama girl, et cetera. And it`s an attack against Obama girl herself, done by -- brace yourself, I had no idea they existed - - the Romney girls. Oh, the drama.
The best part of it all, our man Glenn Beck is right in the middle of the entire thing, lucky dog. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much can we really trust Obama girl?
GLENN BECK, HOST: Did you come up with this?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, this wasn`t my idea.
BECK: So you didn`t sing it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They called her fiscal policies disastrous.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) 50 dollars to get a late-night cab back to New York.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have a crush on Obama?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, a little bit. Definitely.
BECK: Do you have a crush on Obama?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, a little bit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would that be a total turn-on to you, or would you consider it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You would consider it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why am I such a turnoff?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why can`t Obama girl just pick a position?
JOY BEHAR, CO-HOST, ABC`S "THE VIEW": She doesn`t know yet who she`s voting for.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wasn`t sure. I`m definitely going to vote for Senator Obama.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Worst of all, while we all worshipped her...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was doing this (ph) all day long. Six hours of shooting. I felt like a dork.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... she actually felt like a dork.
If we couldn`t trust Obama girl then, how can we possibly trust her now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re the Romney girls, and we approve this message.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re the Romney girls, and we approve this message.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re the Romney girls, and we approve this message.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PAGLIARULO: Quite the smack-down, if you ask me. But it`s not the only battle the Obama camp finds itself in these days. The junior senator is going at it with Hillary Clinton.
They most recently duked out at a labor union debate in Chicago. And the next round of jabs may take place at the National Association of Black Journalists. Clinton is going to be speaking there tonight. Obama, tomorrow. I guess they have to keep these two separated or else it gets ugly.
The big blow for Obama this week, the most recent "USA Today"-Gallup poll showing his archrival, Hillary Clinton, has a big lead in the polls, a 22-point lead, to be exact. And the gap between the two is getting even wider. The competition between the two is fierce, and you can cut the tension with a knife.
Someone who knows a whole lot about winning big fights, the one, the only Don King joins me now. You know, Don, thank you so much for being here. As I`m introducing you, I just feel like I want to throw a couple of jabs out there. I get excited about it.
DON KING, FIGHT PROMOTER: You`ve got great excitement in your voice, and in your gesticulations. And you`re really great, Joe. I could sign you up.
PAGLIARULO: Well, Don, thank you, I appreciate it. I have hair envy today, as well. Listen, we appreciate you coming by. There`s a lot going on. You know, we see them making fun of each other with the Obama girls and the Giuliani girls and all that, but this is actually getting to be a pretty serious race way, way early on. We`re a year and three months away, I think, from the election. Are you surprised by how hot it`s getting so early?
KING: Well, you know, I think that, really, what I think is happening is that George Walker Bush has taken away that lame duck claim to president. He`s been more active in the period that others would be called lame duck, and getting more things done, more discussion, more debate, and he has a great Congress that has been working with him that has enacted a lot of things that have made a lot of changes in this country.
PAGLIARULO: You`re still a big supporter of his, aren`t you?
KING: Oh, absolutely! Let the word go forth for friend and foe alike that I love George Walker Bush. It`s not about him going out of office; I think he`s coming into America. And so we`re the winners, as the people, the masses that will be able to see his infinite wisdom as time goes by.
But the thing is that -- No Child Left Behind, education, this is something that is so wonderful that you`re getting educated kids. I heard a guy named William Lloyd Garrison say many years ago that, you know, the greatest gift a parent can give to a kid is to teach them the alphabet, let him learn to read, and make him feel that he can be 10 feet tall by enlightenment.
And these are the things that George Walker Bush has said he has stepped into doing, inclusiveness. Maybe not the headliners, you know what I mean, but they`re the ones that put down that steady flow of information, Joe.
PAGLIARULO: I`ve got to ask, if you had to promote one of the candidates out there now, there are 16, there are eight on each side, and some of them haven`t even jumped in yet, who would you pick to be the promoter of? Is there one?
KING: Well, right now, the verdict would be out. You know, what I`m doing is observing as a critical outsider observer, because we`re talking about the most precious land in the world, the greatest country in the world, and don`t you ever forget it, and it`s called America. And so in order to have the democratic principles at their best, we need to take the time to reassess and assess and reassess again to make things happen.
You know, this is something I learned from Roger Williams. He was the secretary of state of Texas, you know, terrific guy, great pundit, working with the governor, Perez, there. He`s going to do wonderful things. You`re going to hear many great things about Roger Williams. He`s a wonderful guy, and I loved him.
But I`m going to tell you something: We`ve got to learn to observe, understand what we`re observing, and then be able to make a decision, and then live with a decision that we make.
PAGLIARULO: I see how patriotic you are, you`re red, white and blue everywhere. More bling than I could ever fit on my neck.
KING: The king of bling, only in America, man! This is it. Hit that camera on that thing there. Only in America, the greatest nation in the world, and don`t you ever forget it.
PAGLIARULO: That is beautiful.
KING: And, you know, Joe, I want to invite all of them to be at the fight on October the 6th at the Garden. I want you to be there, because when Glenn Beck is doing his thing with the girls, oh, the Obama girls, ew, the (INAUDIBLE) girls, you know what I mean? Lucky dog, lucky devil. Well, whatever it is, Glenn, I want you to know that we`re going to have a fight, and we want you to be there, and we want you to be our guest, too, Joe, so we can let all the people know, because I`ve got a guy outside this studio that`s with me. He is going to be the next heavyweight champion of the world, and his name is Sam "The Nightmare" Peters. He`ll give you nightmares when you go to sleep.
PAGLIARULO: Oh, we`re going to look out for him.
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: I want to talk to you about the flag, though, and about the red, white and blue. You`re unbelievably patriotic. This is not because you`re a promoter and you want everybody to know who`s seeing this, although you do, you do a lot for the troops that people don`t even know about. Tell me a little bit about that.
KING: The troops is the most important -- they`re the vanguard of our nation. They`re the protectors of our soul and the liberties and freedoms that we possess. They are the security for them, and this is another reason why I like George Walker Bush. He stands with these troops.
You know, and I think these troops that are now -- we did the first intercontinental boxing match that would go right to General David L. Petraeus, you know, down in there the day that he captured Saddam Hussein, on the December to remember, December 13th, a few years back. And I think that these troops are, you know, the men and women of the Armed Forces, you know what I me, some of them, the fallen, but not forgotten heroes, that we highly resolve that they have not died in vain.
And this is what brings me back to New York, is the fact that the terrorist attack on June 11th, you know what I mean, we can`t forget it. That`s why I have this tie on today, Joe. You know, when I did a press conference, the tie...
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: The 9/11 attack?
KING: 9/11, you know what I mean? And so Jim Dolan and myself were the first to put a live match on in New York after that tragedy, that horrific terrorist attack on us here in New York, and Tito Trinidad was fighting Bernard Hopkins. And Tito spent most of his time down at Nino`s restaurant feeding the troops, and the police, and the rescue workers, you know what I mean?
So it`s a thing here that, when you`re talking about America, talk about America and be proud. And the person that`s in the White House that`s leading us through this was George Walker Bush, is George Walker Bush. So you have to understand that, if he wasn`t there, I`m going to tell you something. The enemies respect him. His friends, they love him. But they all respect him because the -- what happened to us now, we`ll be getting bombed everywhere if it wasn`t for a guy like a George Walker Bush.
PAGLIARULO: When people see you on camera, they think boxing immediately. And in the 1970s and 1980s, I could list almost all of the heavyweight champions. I watched them. I couldn`t wait to see the next fight, Muhammad Ali, and George Foreman, and Joe Frazier, and Kenny Norton, I mean, all these guys. I`ve got to be honest, and no disrespect to Sam, I don`t know who the heavyweight champion is today. I have no idea. And I should. I`m a boxing fan. How has it gotten so watered down and so diluted?
KING: Well, it comes back to -- what has happened is the late, great president, Ronald Reagan, he told Mikhail Gorbachev, "Mr. Gorbachev, Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."
PAGLIARULO: That`s right.
KING: And that wall being torn down gave new hope, aspirations to all the European bloc fighters that were contained and could not get outside the communist bloc.
PAGLIARULO: Then they showed up on the scene.
KING: And they`re more dedicated and committed to their work ethic, you know what I mean? All the guys in America who have become trying to imitate and emulate Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Ken Norton, you know what I mean, and Mike Tyson, think they`re going to get it by osmosis, you know what I mean? And it doesn`t happen that way.
PAGLIARULO: And these guys are more hungry. I don`t want to run out of time. It`s on October 6th. What`s the fight again? Who`s the fight?
KING: It`s going to be Maskaev, Oleg Maskaev, which is the Russian champion, against the young man here, Samuel Peters, "The Nightmare from Nigeria." We`re bringing everybody in, but we have the Puerto Ricans there, too. Viva Puerto Rico! We`ve got Santos is going to be fighting Jose Rivera, so that`s going to be for a junior middleweight elimination match. And we also have Andrew Golota. He`s from Poland. Andrew Golota...
PAGLIARULO: He`s still around, huh?
KING: Man, I love it. And he`s going to be fighting Kevin McBride. Oh, Irish eyes are smiling. Toora loora looral, an Irish lullaby. And so I`m going to have Roger Williams here as my guest on that night. And we`re going to have -- naturally, you and Glenn Beck -- and we`re going to talk politics. We`re going to talk about America. We`re going to talk about the (INAUDIBLE) proletariat, the grassroots, the masses, of which I am a part, you know?
And I want you to understand, Americans, that my fellow Americans, that I love this country and I love you, so we have to work together in harmony, dedication and community unity. You hear it right here with Joe Palationi (sic).
PAGLIARULO: That`s my name. It`s Palationi. Hey, Don, it`s my absolute pleasure.
KING: Hey, I love you, man.
PAGLIARULO: Thank you so much.
KING: Only in America, the greatest nation in the world. Don`t you ever forget it. Joe is here!
(CROSSTALK)
KING: Yes, he`s having fun, but we`re working hard for this great nation called America. One land, indivisible, for liberty and justice for all.
PAGLIARULO: We`ll be right back. You stay right here.
KING: Yes, we`ll be right back! Watch us for us (INAUDIBLE) right now is George Walker Bush!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
PAGLIARULO: An octogenarian, a bevy of blondes, and very little clothing. Creepy, yes, but not unusual over at the Playboy Mansion. What is unusual is that, despite all the frequent bacchanalia -- look it up, it`s a cool word -- there`s never been, it seems, so much as even a hint of anything even close to illegal going on there. But now it looks like trouble could be finally brewing over at Hef`s home base.
A sexual assault investigation has been launched now by Los Angeles authorities following a complaint after the annual Midsummer Night`s Dream party. It was held at the mansion last Saturday night, and you know the one where the dress code states "lingerie or less"? Classy.
Apparently one of the waitress at the party is claiming that she was assaulted by an ex-boyfriend, one of the 1,000 invited guests, and against whom she had a restraining order. Izabella St. James lived at the mansion as a girlfriend for two years and wrote the book, "Bunny Tales," about the experience.
I`ve got to know, Elizabeth -- Izabella, I`m sorry, I appreciate you coming on. What really goes on at one of these parties? We hear about them. Most of us will never get to go to them. Is it just nuts the entire time?
IZABELLA ST. JAMES, FORMER PLAYBOY BUNNY: Well, you know, it is fairly wild. It is the Playboy Mansion. But it`s about 1,000 people and very scantily clad women. Sometimes the waitresses, like the person in this alleged assault, they just wear nothing but body paint, so they`re completely nude.
PAGLIARULO: Just run around in body paint?
ST. JAMES: Right, exactly, serving Jell-O shots or whatnot.
PAGLIARULO: I`m actually wearing body paint tonight. This is not a suit. It`s painted on. It`s pretty nice, huh?
ST. JAMES: Looks great.
PAGLIARULO: Thank you so much. OK, so basically a lot of naked people running around and a bunch of guys there seeing who they could hook up with?
ST. JAMES: Exactly. It`s a very sexually charged atmosphere the whole time. You know, there`s alcohol, all you can drink, readily available naked people. And you have acres of the Playboy Mansion grounds, which are very -- you know, there`s a lot of bushes, if you will, trees. There`s the zoo. There`s a game room. So there`s a lot of nooks and crannies where things like that could occur.
PAGLIARULO: OK. So you`ve never heard anything about a sexual assault happening at the mansion, right? You`ve never heard of anything illegal happening there, have you?
ST. JAMES: I`ve never heard about a sexual assault. You know, I`m sure there is some guys get too drunk and they grab girls or touch them inappropriately. Things like that do happen. And if they`re too drunk and rowdy, they get escorted out by security. But, you know, in the game room, for example, there`s rooms that are interconnected that you can lock yourself in. So I know illegal activities do go on there, but I`ve never heard of a sexual assault.
PAGLIARULO: How long have you been out of the mansion? And, come on, just a couple of people talking here, forget about the hundreds of thousands who are out there in television land, that`s kind of weird, isn`t it?
ST. JAMES: It is kind of weird. You know, I graduated law school. I moved into the Playboy Mansion immediately afterwards. I lived there for over two years. And it was quite an experience; I couldn`t really make sense of it. And that`s why I wrote "Bunny Tales," to tell other women, other people about living at the mansion and to sort of make sense of it for myself.
PAGLIARULO: So you told yourself, "I`ve gone to law school. Man, that was exhausting. I passed the bar. Why don`t I go live with Hef for a while?"
ST. JAMES: Exactly. It was like an extended spring break in my mind.
PAGLIARULO: OK, well, listen, being one of the girlfriends, how does it really work? There`s no way you were really this 80-something-year-old guy`s girlfriend, were you, along with five, six or seven other women?
ST. JAMES: Well, yes, in theory, you are a girlfriend. You do have a relationship with him. But, you know, there are obviously limitations. There`s a lot of jealousy, insecurity, fighting for Hef. And in the end, I realized that it wasn`t a genuine relationship, and I had to walk away.
PAGLIARULO: Fighting for Hef? He`s 80-something-years-old. Have you looked at Hef lately? I`m just saying. I mean, I`m not judging, but you`re going to fight with five other women? You could probably go out and get any single guy you want.
ST. JAMES: Well, you know, I didn`t, but there are -- you know, his main girlfriend is very possessive of him. So it becomes this competition of who he likes the most and who he favors. And it is a very bizarre situation.
PAGLIARULO: And when you said there were weird curfews and weird rules and things like this, right?
ST. JAMES: Right, there`s a 9:00 p.m. curfew.
PAGLIARULO: 9:00 p.m.?
ST. JAMES: 9:00 p.m. every night, no matter what, you had to be in your room. So you couldn`t have, you know, dinner with friends or birthday parties or anything like that. It`s a very controlled lifestyle. You know, your friends with Hef`s friends. You`re friends with the people who go there, but you`re not really encouraged to have any independent life of your own.
PAGLIARULO: OK, only a few seconds left. The book is called "Bunny Tales." Just very quickly, have you heard anything from friends at the mansion about what actually happened here Saturday?
ST. JAMES: All I heard was that it was a waitress and that the man who assaulted her was an ex-boyfriend, but I, you know, haven`t confirmed that.
PAGLIARULO: You know what, thanks so much for your time. I appreciate it, Izabella. We appreciate you stopping by tonight.
ST. JAMES: Thank you for having me.
PAGLIARULO: Time now for "CNN Heroes." Today we head to Rwanda, Africa, where one man is fighting to protect the global population of severely threatened mountain gorillas. Just last month, three female gorillas and one male were found shot dead in the Virunga National Park. In seven months, there have been seven deaths as humans make gorillas pawns in their politics. Here now tonight`s "CNN Hero."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EUGENE RUTAGARAMA, "DEFENDING THE PLANET": When you approach a group of gorillas, the first feeling that you are approaching a relative, a human being. In this region, we have been able to bring conservationists from the three governments together to sign an agreement to protect these mountain gorillas. Having rangers to cover the park with their patrol means that we keep the poaching at the lowest level, but the poaching is still there.
My name is Eugene Rutagarama. My work is to protect mountain gorillas in their habitat.
When I came back from Burundi, Rwanda was devastated by the genocide. You would see the bodies of dead people, thousands of people. The whole country had to resume from scratch.
My attention went to the national parks. If these parks were not protected, it means that we`ll have lost the mountain gorillas, which is a hobby for many tourists. It brings foreign currency for this country which helps to conserve this park.
Gorillas can`t really do much if a human being has decided to decimate or to kill the gorillas. They need to be defended; they need to be protected by human beings.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO: According to the new issue of "Business Week," Americans now spend an astonishing $42 billion a year on their pets. That`s more than the gross domestic product of all but 64 nations in the entire world. Well, if you think you`re spending too much on your pet, then I want you to meet Sam Friday of Centre County, Pennsylvania. For breakfast this morning, Sam fed his pet, Abby, five loaves of breads, six pounds of grapes, two dozen ears of corn, and, oh, by the way, a half gallon of vanilla ice cream. Did I mention that Abby is a brown bear?
From our affiliate, WJAC in Johnstown, Pennsylvania, Kyla Campbell has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KYLA CAMPBELL, WJAC-TV CORRESPONDENT: Some people have cats; other people have dogs. And one family in Centre County has a pet bear named Abby.
(voice-over): Abby is much like a dog to the Friday family, just a little bigger and with wild animal instincts.
SAM FRIDAY, BEAR OWNER: Just remember, they`re always a wild animal, you know, and treat any animal like you want to be treated. You give them love and caring. I think they`ll give you love and caring back.
CAMPBELL: Friday says he grew up in the countryside and always loved animals. He had a bear for 20 years before getting Abby, seen here splashing away.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s how it`s always been. I wouldn`t have it any other way. You just play with the bear or have the bear wrestle him.
CAMPBELL: Friday has a license to own the bear through the state game commission. He says Abby enjoys going for rides.
FRIDAY: Take her down here to the gas station here for M&Ms, and watching people look at her, her head out the window like a dog, panting.
CAMPBELL: Friday says it`s not always easy raising a bear, but it`s worth it.
FRIDAY: In the middle of the night, you hear crash, boom, bang. You come out, and your refrigerator is totally emptied. Or you don`t feel good, and you just lay down, and all of a sudden she comes up and crawls on you, starts licking your ears. She`s awesome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PAGLIARULO: OK.
Now just a quick update on a story we`ve been following all week for you. Remember that 7-year-old girl who stood up to that dirt bag who was trying to rob her mother`s convenience store at gunpoint? Here`s the surveillance video now showing young Alicia going after the guy. Well, I`m happy to say that guy is now safely behind bars.
OK, that`s going to do it for tonight. Nancy Grace is up next. From New York, I`m Joe Pagliarulo, Joe Pags. Have a great night.
END
