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Glenn Beck
Will Imus Return to the Airwaves?; Pedophile Blogger Arrested Twice; Wrestler Brian "Crush" Adams Dies
Aired August 14, 2007 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE PAGLIARULO, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, is Imus ready for a come back? Don Imus settles with CBS for a reported $20 million. So, what`s next for the I-Man?
Plus, self-proclaimed pedophile Jack McClellan arrested twice.
JACK MCCLELLAN, SELF-PROCLAIMED PEDOPHILE: If I was going to violate this order willfully, I mean, I would have gone out to some place with a lot of kids.
PAGLIARULO: But, wait, Jack. Weren`t you busted next to a day care center with a camera in your hands? Hmm.
And another pro-wrestling champ found dead. Investigators await the autopsy report of Brian "Crush" Adams. Could steroids have played a role?
All this and more tonight.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PAGLIARULO: Hello, America. Joe Pagliarulo, Joe Pags, in for one final day for the vacationing Glenn Beck, who returns tomorrow.
We begin tonight with Don Imus and the news that America`s most controversial shock jock may soon be back in the game. Imus has reached a settlement with CBS, ending his reported $120 million lawsuit against that company.
The agreement clears the way for Imus to return to the airwaves, with a report suggesting he`s in talks with WABC. Amen, brother.
In April, Imus was fired from both his radio and TV jobs after calling the Rutgers women`s basketball team, quote, "nappy-headed hos." Don`t get me wrong. What Don Imus said was vile and indefensible. I would never have said it myself.
However, that pretty much describes his 30-year radio career. Don can be an insensitive jerk, but everyone knows who he is when they hire him. He`s a shock jock, for Pete`s sake. If you don`t like it, switch it off. This is America last time I checked.
So when is he going to return? And will his critics cry uncle?
Joining me now, Earl Ofari Hutchinson, a nationally syndicated columnist, and Bob Kolker, contributing editor at "New York" magazine, who recently wrote an expose on Imus` comeback.
Bob, we spoke about the possibility of this happening, what, less than a week ago now, and now we hear it`s going to happen. How long is it going to be before we hear those dulcet tones on the airwaves again?
BOB KOLKER, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NEW YORK" MAGAZINE: The people I`ve been talking to, Joe, say that it could be as early as January. It`s possible there`s a small non-compete thing in the settlement, but we`ll never know, because there`s a non-disparagement clause and neither side is talking.
PAGLIARULO: OK. So neither side is talking. But somehow, in some way a report is out there that it`s $20 million. Would you be surprised, Bob?
KOLKER: Not at all. It`s right in the middle of nothing, which is what CBS wanted to give him, and $40 million which is what he signed for for five years. And on the face of it, it looks like a good deal for him.
On the other hand, there is all that money that would have gone to the charities that he could have been raising money for in that time. So for him, it`s probably a mixed bag.
PAGLIARULO: OK. So Earl, he gets back on the airwaves, and he starts doing his show, which is going to be listened to by 18 billion people. Going to be the highest ratings ever. How does he start a new show off? Does he come out, is he contrite? Does he interview the Rutgers basketball team on that first show? What does he do?
EARL OFARI HUTCHINSON, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Well, that would be a wild scene to interview the Rutgers basketball team and the coach, but I think what he -- what would happen in the beginning is Don Imus would probably look over his shoulders. I think you`ll see a kinder, gentler, more soft-spoken, in the beginning, only in the beginning, Don Imus.
I think once he gets his legs back, I think you`ll see the old Don Imus. I don`t think that Don Imus is going to change. I don`t think he`s going to be transformed. I don`t think it`s going to be a magical makeover of Don Imus. He is what he is, and it is what it is.
And remember one thing, Joe, as we well know, if he goes back -- I should say, when he comes back, it`s still about the ratings. If Imus packs them in, if it`s off the charts, if the sponsors are there, they`re bankrolling this guy, expect the old Don Imus.
PAGLIARULO: Yes, but I`ve got to stop you there, because it is about the ratings but only as they compare to the sponsors. And you did bring that up. That`s very important to bring out here.
CBS didn`t fire him immediately. The cable news network didn`t file - - didn`t fire him immediately. They did that only after the sponsors said, "We will pull out our ads if you don`t get rid of this guy." It is about the almighty buck, isn`t it?
HUTCHINSON: Absolutely. Well, it`s a money game. I mean, you know, we can say all day, well, CBS, MSNBC, they got on their moral high horse. You know, they made a lot of pontifical statements about...
PAGLIARULO: No, they didn`t.
HUTCHINSON: ... "We want to clean up the airwaves. We want to do this." But at the end of the day when those sponsors walked out the door or threatened to walk out the door, that was a nail -- the final nail in the coffin for Don Imus.
PAGLIARULO: And I agree with you. Bob, going forward here, will Imus, in fact, be like Earl said, a softer spoken, a real man. Is it going to be a rejuvenated, and I understand what I did was wrong and we`re going to go forward and have a happy-go-lucky, let`s hold hands and sing "Kumbaya" show? Nobody`s going to listen to that, are they?
KOLKER: You guys are absolutely right. He has to win over advertisers. He also has to win some of those high-powered guests for disavowed him right before he lost his job.
It will be a bit of an uphill climb, but Imus in the past has been capable of slightly modulating its career a little bit. He was just a shock jock in the `70s and `80s, and then he went more political and serious in the `90s but still kept that kind of toilet humor at the same time.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
KOLKER: So maybe he`ll modulate again. But friends of his who I talk to for my "New York" magazine story, they all said that he`ll bring race as a subject into his act. He`ll try to make it...
PAGLIARULO: He has to. He can`t run away from it, can he?
KOLKER: No, I don`t think so. And it`s not his style, and maybe that`s the way to thread the needle and to get the advertisers back on board to confront it head on.
PAGLIARULO: Earl, this is a big-time win for the Constitution, for the First Amendment. Isn`t it? I mean, this is a huge win.
As a radio talk show host, again, I would not have gone to the level that Don Imus did. But this guy, look, his employers knew this going on. He said it, knowing that they expected him to be a shock jock, and the fact that they ran away from him, he had every right to win this lawsuit, no?
HUTCHINSON: Well, it was a valid lawsuit. I mean, obviously, it was a valid contract, legal contract. There was never any question that Don Imus, two things, one, he`d be paid off. CBS would have to essentially say, "Hey, we overreacted," which they did.
And the other part of that is he`d be back on the air. Now, we`ve come to this. I think Don Imus, and certainly Bob is absolutely correct, Don Imus in the beginning has to look over the shoulders. Sponsors, advertisers, other guests.
But I still submit this. When ratings drives talk radio as it does, Don Imus, yes he can be political. He can be soft. He can be gentle, but there`s got to be some fire. There`s got to be some passion, because that`s what people expect from Don Imus. And he`s got to give it to them.
PAGLIARULO: Right. And I couldn`t agree with you more. I haven`t heard one word out of Al Sharpton today. Have you guys?
KOLKER: No.
HUTCHINSON: You`re not going to either.
PAGLIARULO: Why not? Why doesn`t he step up, because you know what? Don Imus gave this man more power than he ever had in his life.
HUTCHINSON: Yes, and I`ll tell you why. Al Sharpton, he got what he wanted. He got a lot of time. He got a lot of publicity. He made himself look good at Imus` expense. Imus was off the air. So now, he can afford to be magnanimous and generous and say, "I don`t want to wreck the guy`s career. If he comes back in apologetic, soft-spoken, all these other things, Don Imus, I`m OK with that."
But the bottom line is, Imus will be back. You won`t hear a word from Sharpton.
PAGLIARULO: Hey, Bob...
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: Go ahead, go ahead.
KOLKER: I`m going to go out on a limb and say we`re going to hear from Al Sharpton in the next day or so. Maybe he...
PAGLIARULO: What`s he going to say? I`m going to watch it. I`ll sit back on the sidelines, what?
KOLKER: Yes. He says -- he`s going to consult with the National Association of Black Journalists, which was the group that he was partnering with, and he`ll say, "Well, wait and see." He`s going to check it.
PAGLIARULO: Yes, OK. Earl, Bob, great knowledge. Thank you so much, both of you gentlemen. Appreciate that.
HUTCHINSON: All right.
PAGLIARULO: Coming up right here, everyone`s favorite self-proclaimed pedophile has been arrested. Seems he was caught snapping pictures outside of a Los Angeles day care center. How -- how can this be? Is the system actually working?
And Hillary Clinton has over two million pages worth of records, notes, and memos from her days as first lady. Many of those dealing with the first time she tried to tackle universal health care. So why can`t we see all of it? I`ve got the details.
Plus the controversial O.J. Simpson book, "If I Did It". If you haven`t pulled it off the Internet, you will soon be able to buy it. Stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO: Coming up, another pro-wrestler dead long before his time. The cause of 44-year-old Brian Adams` death has not yet been determined. But with the Chris Benoit tragedy fresh in our memory, isn`t it finally time to start shaking up the "sport" of wrestling?
First, you don`t have to look at an old Western to see the bad guys really do wear black hats. Jack McClellan is back in the news. He`s that creepy, self-described pedophile who blogs about his attraction to little girls and gas maintained web sites where he posts photos and rates the best places to leer at children.
Seems he must have been doing some research yesterday when he was arrested twice at the University of California at Los Angeles. First, he was nabbed on suspicion of violating a statewide restraining order when he was caught with a camera outside the campus center that provides day care for children 3 months to 3 years old.
Listen to me clearly. The oldest child there that he was taking pictures of is 3 years old.
The second arrest came after someone spotted McClellan doing a live TV interview from that campus, a parking lot there. He had been expressly told by police not to return.
Here`s what the confessed pedophile had to say for himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you attracted to children?
MCCLELLAN: Yes, sure, girls. I mean, I`ve admitted that many times, but I`ve never done anything criminal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After you did what did you today, why should you be allowed to walk around freely?
MCCLELLAN: Well, that wasn`t -- that wasn`t my decision. That was the decision of the police department, and they just decided it wasn`t that grave of a situation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAGLIARULO: Ron Tebo is the creator of JackMcClellan.com, a leading anti-McClellan web site.
Ron, it almost seems like he`s trying to get arrested. Doesn`t it look he`s, like, warning us or asking for help?
RON TEBO, JACKMCCLELLAN.COM: I think so. And in a way, I think the system may have failed for him, and he`s thinking these thoughts and they`re overcoming him. And he needs some help, and he`s reaching out that, "Hey, you know, these thoughts are overreaching, and I need some help. And I`m on SSI, and my medical doesn`t cover it."
And he`s almost saying, you know, he`s taunting us in a way, too. I don`t -- personally, I don`t trust him.
PAGLIARULO: Right. Well, there`s no reason to. I`ve got to ask you this, though. You had -- you had a remarkable moment where you ran into this guy, what, at an airport and you actually had a conversation with him?
TEBO: Right. Chicago O`Hare. I was walking in the washroom, and he was exiting. And immediately, I phoned my attorney, Mr. Zemanti (ph).
PAGLIARULO: Sure.
TEBO: And he said, go talk to him. And sure enough, I did, about ten minutes later. And I said straight-faced right to him, father, you know, to a pedophile, I said, "Take down your site. You need to eliminate those files, delete your files, abolish the site and put up a bulletin that you are no longer involved with children. And, do the parents a favor by eliminating your web site."
And he promised me he would do that. Looked me straight in the eye. He says, "I`ll do that, and I`ll seek help." I asked him to seek help, too. He promised that he would do that.
PAGLIARULO: Is he a glory hound? Is he looking for just the media madness that is following him around right now? Do you believe that he`s really a pedophile who just hasn`t acted yet?
TEBO: I don`t want to take that chance. I mean, he has made, as you know some startling admissions, and I -- I don`t -- I wouldn`t want to take a chance. I mean, Jack has made many of us aware that we need to be extra careful about the people that are in our children`s lives. In a strange way, he has brought the attention that we need to focus on the safety of our children.
PAGLIARULO: Well, I guess the reason that I don`t believe him -- and again, he says he is a pedophile. I`ve got three daughters. I will keep him as far away from my kids or I`ll take action. I mean, absolutely will not take the chance.
But the reason I don`t believe him is, in my years, I was 13 years as a television news anchor. I have never ever, ever, never heard a story of a pedophile warning us, "Hi, here I am. I`m after your little kids."
TEBO: I think he`s bringing it into light. Pedophilia is not synonymous, through my research, with child abuse, but Jack wants everyone to understand. And he`s trying to bring it out into the open that you can be a pedophile and act within the boundaries of the law.
But again, he has made some startling admissions that we need to be aware of. We need to be protected from people like Jack.
PAGLIARULO: Yes, but you know, I`m guessing that you believe in the Constitution as I do. The First Amendment certainly says that he can say this, he can -- he can walk the streets freely. I know that we have a restraining order now. We`re going to talk to a legal expert in a second about that. I`m not sure that it really does -- you know, really does any good.
But I mean, the First Amendment means that we can think what we want to think. We can say what we want to say. And this guy thinking and saying what he`s doing before actually taking action, how can we possibly stop him, other than maybe an intervention by a guy like you, who`s doing the right thing, or by the medical community.
If the medical community won`t step up and help him, what can we possibly do?
TEBO: I think we need to be more vigilant with who our children are associated with. That`s where it needs to start. And our children -- go ahead.
PAGLIARULO: No, I didn`t say anything. Go ahead, continue.
TEBO: And our children need to be protected by people like Jack that make these admissions.
And I mean, I can`t put a moat around my house to protect my children...
PAGLIARULO: Right.
TEBO: ... from people in the neighborhood. But I need -- it needs to start with me to go over -- my children are 10 years old, you know. They go down the street, they bring their two-way radios.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
TEBO: It`s unfortunate that it`s happened today, but we -- as parents, we need to be more vigilant to protect our children.
PAGLIARULO: Ron, listen, I appreciate what you`re doing, but the legal questions do have to keep on popping into my brain.
I want to go to -- turn to Wendy Murphy now. She`s a former prosecutor and current professor at the New England School of Law; also, the author of the brand new upcoming book, "And Justice for Some".
Wendy, my pleasure to have you on. What about the constitutionality here and the fact that this guy has thoughts and he`s saying things. But so far, we can`t prove that he`s taken any action?
WENDY MURPHY, PROFESSOR, NEW ENGLAND SCHOOL OF LAW: Well, I`m not sure I agree with that, Joe.
Look, the line between thoughts and action is not always clear. It`s almost never black and white. But this guy`s done an awful lot of action. He`s not just saying things. He`s going to the sites where children are. He`s taking pictures of them; he`s posting them. That`s action.
And we have an important First Amendment principle that we all treasure. It doesn`t matter what your political stripes are. We all understand the value of free speech, but once you cross over into action, it isn`t about free speech anymore.
And you know, the reason I think the law can and should intervene, and it is doing a pretty good job, even though the charges he`s facing now aren`t that serious. It`s better than nothing. But the point is, you want to be able to take action before he gets to the child, because that`s too great a price to pay.
PAGLIARULO: I agree with you. And I want to wholeheartedly agree with you. Again, I`ve got three daughters, and I will keep this man away from my kids at all costs.
But at the same time, I`ll throw this stupid, you know, comparison out here, because I`m just kind of a dumb guy. OK.
Let`s say that I`m a registered gun owner, and I`m walking back and forth in front of a bank saying, "Man, I`m going to rob this bank. I`m really going to rob the bank. I`m telling you right now I`m going to rob the bank."
If I legally have the gun, I can say that all day long and maybe the police can stand there and watch and wait and see if I`m going to rob it, but until I make that first step and say give me all the money, who`s to say that I did anything wrong?
MURPHY: Yes, but you described a situation where you didn`t take nearly as much action as he`s done. And kids -- kids are special.
PAGLIARULO: You mean the web site. Is that the action? OK.
MURPHY: Yes, yes. The taking of the pictures. The sort of incitement that`s going on. He`s not just saying I think it`s kind of cool to rape children. He`s saying, "And here`s how you all can do it, too." That`s a level of incitement way beyond the example you gave.
I have three daughters. I have two sons. I know how to protect my kids, I think.
PAGLIARULO: Right, right.
MURPHY: And this is good that we know this is the guy who we really need to protect our kids from. But I don`t think he`s serving a public service. I think it may well be that this guy is mentally ill, and it`s embarrassing that the mental health community hasn`t locked him up.
PAGLIARULO: Yes.
MURPHY: I don`t care if he`s sick or evil. He still should be out of our free society, because he`s really exploiting freedom by doing what he`s doing. He`s shoving it in our face.
PAGLIARULO: I agree with you, and I think that he needs medical help. And I think he needs a psychiatric, you know, examination. I believe in all of that.
But as a lawyer, if somebody -- in California especially, I`m surprised that this restraining order held. To give somebody a restraining order because of somebody -- something somebody said, the Ninth Circuit, at least, is going to throw this out, right? This can`t stick.
MURPHY: If anyone does, you know, you`re right about the Ninth Circuit.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
MURPHY: No, I don`t agree that this restraining order is invalid because of the overt actions he`s taken.
Taking pictures of children is not necessarily protected speech. Kids are uniquely vulnerable, and the law allows us to uniquely protect them in a way that might offend free speech, if we`re talking about adults.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
MURPHY: I don`t agree that it violates free speech for him to be restrained. He knows he`s not supposed to go near kids. He did it anyway.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
MURPHY: And then he did a TV interview right near the kids.
The bottom line is he knows the law has said to him, "You can`t trespass. You can`t take pictures of kids." And he did it anyway. So we now have the tools in place. We can lock him up for six months on the trespassing, five days in jail for each contempt charge related to the restraining order. That`s not nothing.
It`s good that we have these tools to be able to grab this guy, because he hasn`t hurt a kid yet, and now he faces potential incarceration.
PAGLIARULO: Well, you know, it`s interesting because, you know, another case I can talk about is, you know, people have the diagram to make a pipe bomb online. And I believe this case has been brought to court, and the defense has won in that again it`s protected free speech.
So again, on the Web -- I am not defending Jack McClellan. This guy is a piece of garbage who I want put away for life so that he never has a chance. But if I walk the streets and say, "Man, am I going to kill somebody" but never do it, there`s a big difference between action and -- and saying that you would like to -- that you would enjoy the action.
And again, taking pictures, not against the law. Being near children, not against the law if you`re not a convicted pedophile, and he`s not. That`s the weirdest thing.
MURPHY: But -- but look, you talk about teaching people how to build a bomb on the Internet. That`s actually sanctionable. The government can punish you if you put out there how to build a bomb.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
MURPHY: Because that`s too dangerous; the risk is too great. Same kind of principles apply here.
PAGLIARULO: You know, Wendy, I appreciate the time and the knowledge. Thanks so much today.
MURPHY: You bet.
PAGLIARULO: Coming up, I`ll have a look at the most recent wrestler to die with an alleged history of steroid use. Was Brian "Crush" Adams pinned by the juice?
And presidential candidate Mitt Romney, he`s worth an estimated $250 million. But where did all that money come from? Who`s he doing business with and why should we care?
All that and much more. You stay right here. It`s all straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO: Well, just a week ago I was right here talking about Barry Bonds` record-breaking 756th home run, and whether or not steroid use detracted from that accomplishment.
Well, the alleged use of steroids in baseball has always been controversial. In this sports entertainment world of pro-wrestling, it`s becoming deadly.
Former professional wrestler Brian "Crush" Adams was found dead in his home yesterday, and while there`s been no evidence of foul play, at least not yet, an autopsy is being conducted and wrestling critics are concerned.
Crush had a brush with steroids and the law back in the mid-`90s.
In just the last 20 years, as a matter of fact, 89 wrestlers have died before the age of 50.
Marc Mero is a former pro-wrestler and was a personal friend of Brian Adams.
Marc, first I`m very sorry about your loss. I`ve got to know, how many wrestlers have you seen -- just you seen -- die before their time?
MARC MERO, FORMER PROFESSIONAL WRESTLER: Well, I`ve wrestled against 27 wrestlers so far that have died.
PAGLIARULO: And would you say that they -- that their deaths definitely related in some way to the use of steroids?
MERO: Well, it`s not just steroids, though. We`re looking at, you know, many pain medications, illegal drugs. We`re looking at everything from alcohol to sleeping medication. There`s a lot. It`s a wrestler`s cocktail. It`s the -- it`s the lifestyle of the professional wrestler.
PAGLIARULO: See, I remember in the mid-1990s when there was this big deal about the then-called WWF and Vince McMahon and steroid use and it was running rampant. He promised that it would stop, and it wouldn`t -- it wouldn`t any longer go on.
Now you`ve got Chris Benoit, who died not very long ago after killing his son and his wife, and he -- you know, they found testosterone, every kind of steroid you can think in his house.
What`s the story here? Did McMahon say what people wanted to hear? Did he really clean it up? Are the wrestlers doing it on their own? What`s going on here?
MERO: Well, Joe, you know, obviously we still have a major problem. We`re still seeing people that are dying much too young. The WW drug testing policy, obviously, is not working when a wrestler like Chris Benoit can get ten months of steroids every three or four weeks and then fly under the WW radar and then pass the test. Something is definitely wrong.
There needs some type of regulation. We need to have the Congress step in, which they have recently sent letters inquiring into the WWE. And hopefully, there will be congressional hearings on Capitol Hill where the WWE and the wrestling industry will have to be policed.
PAGLIARULO: Obviously, steroids will help you to work out more frequently and help to get bigger muscles and retain bigger muscles, but why specifically, though, other than the aesthetics, why specifically does a pro-wrestler use steroids?
MERO: Well, because it also helps you with the recovery time, you know. If you look at the guys that are making the most money in the world of professional wrestling, it`s the guys that are some of the biggest guys in the industry. You know, when I got involved in professional wrestling, I realized that even to look like I could compete with those guys, I had to do anabolic steroids.
PAGLIARULO: In other words, you can -- recovery and you were ready for the performance again.
I used to work out with a guy who knew professional football players, and he said they were juicing up. Maybe they`re not anymore. This is back in the early 1990s, but they were juicing up because they were taking a beating in practice, taking a beating in the game.
And to get back into the game and to save their position on the football team, they had to take the stuff just to keep on going.
You`re saying it`s prevalent for the same reasons, but wrestlers are put through even more.
MERO: Absolutely. You know, when I was in the business, we were doing 250 cities a year. There`s no off season in professional wrestling. You know, and I say this all the time, but when Wrestlemania has -- that`s their Super Bowl, the next night you`re doing "Monday Night Raw".
Can you imagine the NFL, the Super Bowl and the same two teams play Monday night football the next night? It doesn`t happen.
You know, people are forgetting about the trickle down effects to -- to the high school kids and kids that -- a million kids now between sixth grade and 12th grade are now using anabolic steroids.
PAGLIARULO: And Marc, you`re actually -- you`ve got a program where you`re working on getting that to stop. Thank you so much for what you`re doing. I appreciate you stopping by.
MERO: Thanks for having me.
PAGLIARULO: OK. Up next right here, Rudy on the border. Illegal immigration is a tricky subject for America`s mayor. Will it hurt his chances in `08? Find out right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO Coming up in just a bit, O.J. Simpson`s book "I Did It." Oops, I mean, "If I Did It" will soon be coming a bookstore near you. That is just great, isn`t it? Anyway, at least Simpson won`t be making any money off of that book. Those details are straight ahead.
But first today`s, political soup du jour involved presidential candidates in the hot seat. You know, running a national campaign makes them fair game. Let`s take a look at some of their vulnerabilities.
First up is GOP front runner Rudy Giuliani who spoke today about one of his more challenging political topics, nope, not abortion, but illegal immigration. Giuliani`s immigration plan includes making sure all non- citizens speak English and have tamper proof IDs. It also requires that the U.S. have a border fence both real and virtual. Sounds like a fine plan coming from America`s mayor.
However, his track record on this issue is kind of leaving his credibility in question here. Giuliani maintained the same immigration practices of his predecessors, former Mayors Koch and Dinkins which opened the doors for illegals to our schools, our health care and don`t ask don`t tell. That`s the policy the NYPD has to deal with.
At least Rudy is approaching his past head on unlike the current Democratic front runner Hillary Clinton whose records from when her husband, remember Bill, right, when he was president, well they are being protected now by the Presidential Records Act. Over 2 million pages of documents ranging from calendars to personal memos are being kept from the public until after the 2008 presidential election.
However, Hillary has done us the favor of releasing a selection of these documents which detail her health care efforts in 1993 and 1994, the cornerstone of her 2008 bid. How convenient. Of course, these released documents are missing some 1,000 pages leaving her political rivals clamoring for their release, too. It makes you wonder exactly what Mrs. Clinton is hiding.
Something I`m sure Iowa straw poll winner Mitt Romney would love to have sealed up from you and me, the public, are his financial records. Specifically, the details of his overseas stock portfolio. Romney`s worth estimated at $250 million. But the question is where he is getting it all from. Mitt has divested from companies dealing with Iran. That is good news. Knowing that would probably hurt his presidential campaign, right.
But he has not divested from Chinese companies working in the Sudan. You know, that little country in Africa where the government is accused of genocide? Killing up to 200,000 people. To help sort through all of the hypocrisy is Karen Hanretty, Republican strategist and Keith Boykin, former Clinton White House aide. I welcome you both here to the show tonight.
I want to start with you, Keith, I have got to know when Hillary Rodham Clinton releases a thousand pages out of 2 million documents, and she -- well, I don`t know. She released more than that but she actually hid a thousand pages, why not actually release the whole darn thing or don`t release any of it? Didn`t she open up a whole can of worms here?
KEITH BOYKIN, FORMER CLINTON WHITE HOUSE AIDE: Well, I don`t know. When you compare the secrecy of the current administration, with the bit of privacy that`s going on with what Hillary Clinton is doing, it is really not a big deal.
PAGLIARULO Well, Keith, wait a second, I don`t remember mentioning George W. Bush or the current administration at all. I remember mentioning Hillary Clinton, and by the way, it is her right to use this presidential records hiding issue, whatever the heck it`s called. I understand that. But if you are going to release some of it, don`t the other candidates have a right to say, wait a second. Don`t give me what you want to give me. You`ve got to release any of it. Show me all of it.
BOYKIN: You are right. The other candidates do have the right and they will say that. The other opponents will try to make this an issue as much as they can but the reality is, it`s her right to decide whether she wants to release it or not and what`s going to happen is it`s going to be a minor issue within inside the Beltway scene but people outside aren`t paying attention to this, they don`t really care. It`s not going to affect her campaign in the least bit at all.
PAGLIARULO But they might care if people keep on bringing it up. But we`ll see going forward. Karen, I have got to ask you about this. You have got Rudy Giuliani who the Democrats are smart, and actually his competitors on the right also are smart to stay away from 9/11. You don`t really want to touch this guy on terrorism because whether he is great at it or not, the impression is he is America`s mayor and took care of New York City on 9/11 after that horrible tragedy.
So now they are going after illegal immigration. This is a problem for him as I mentioned because he kept the Democrats that were in office before him, he kept those policies in place. Is this a weakness for him? Will the Republicans and eventually the Democrats go after him on it?
KAREN HANRETTY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, Mitt Romney`s already going after him on it. In fact he has been for at least a week or two now. But the fact of the matter is, all of the top three -- well, I guess top two now. I don`t think McCain is really considered one of the top three anymore.
PAGLIARULO But watch out for Mike Huckabee. Huckabee is in the game, man.
HANRETTY: Any day now. The top two candidates are certainly vulnerable. You know, Mitt Romney isn`t exactly pure on the issue of illegal immigration and when he was governor of Massachusetts, he was on the record as being very supportive of one of these so-called comprehensive immigration reform bills.
PAGLIARULO Whatever that means.
HANRETTY: Right, exactly. Whatever that means. So Romney, I think, is trying to show that he is to the right of Giuliani on the issue but Giuliani hasn`t set a real high bar but at the end of the day I think with this point out is why Republicans are not happy overall with their choice of candidates right now.
PAGLIARULO We`ll talk about more in a second. Keith, I want to pull you in on this. Are you just sort of wringing your hands? Oh, look at that. We have got another issue for a presidential front runner on the right. Because Mitt Romney, his crutch appears to be to flip flop on choice and life.
BOYKIN: Well, not just that. I mean, both Rudy Giuliani and Mitt Romney have a lot of flip flops to deal with. You know, the strange thing .
PAGLIARULO I wouldn`t say a lot. There are a couple of issues out there you can pinpoint. Not like they`re John Kerry, for goodness` sake. Come on.
BOYKIN: Look at Rudy Giuliani. I mean, I live in New York. He was the mayor of the city for a long time and he was a pro-choice, pro-gay, pro-immigration .
PAGLIARULO Anti-gun.
BOYKIN: Pro gun control. Exactly. And now he is running to be the exact opposite of that and hard to take that seriously. Of course he is trying to say he is still pro-choice but he would appoint justices that would basically overturn Roe v. Wade. He is trying to have the cake and eat it, too.
PAGLIARULO Hold on because Karen is about to jump on us here. Karen, why don`t you talk about that? Because as somebody -- I was born in New York and I certainly am familiar with Rudy Giuliani. This guy really is a social liberal. I would say.
HANRETTY: He is a social liberal.
PAGLIARULO And he`s never changed that. So I guess calling him a flip flopper is kind of odd. What do you say about - because he is kind of trying to make people from Texas where I live now feel better about his candidacy.
HANRETTY: Well, look, Giuliani does have a lot of -- I`m going to say challenges with social conservatives.
PAGLIARULO He is conservatively challenged, yes.
HANRETTY: You can try to paint him as a flip flopper but the fact out matter is Giuliani is standing by his pro-choice positions. I don`t think he supports same sex marriage but he does support civil unions. You know .
BOYKIN: Actually, he backed of on that, though. He just said if he didn`t .
PAGLIARULO Backed off is an interesting term to say backed off .
HANRETTY: I don`t think -- I don`t think he`s going to back off to far from that. I think that that`s probably an issue that he can weather the storm through a primary on but because even President Bush actually supports domestic partnerships. So you know, I think the left is going to try to paint Rudy Giuliani as being more liberal, I think, than he probably is.
PAGLIARULO Sure. I want to get this thing, Karen, before we run out of time and I`ll start with you and I want a comment from Keith. And I only have about 30 seconds. Mitt Romney, $250 million. Good, God bless him. He`s made a success out of the American dream and getting money from a Chinese company. He has invested in this company. Doing business in the Sudan. Is he nuts? Does he not have advisers?
HANRETTY: Look, this is an old story. Back in May, Giuliani, Edwards, Obama all showed to have divested from their investments in the Sudan. The fact that Mitt Romney didn`t is incredible.
PAGLIARULO All right, I have to get a comment from Keith because I`ve got to go. Karen, thank you. Keith, go ahead, hurry.
BOYKIN: I think it is dangerous for Romney, because it looks like, A, he is trying to buy the campaign because he has so much money and B because it is not just this issue but it is also Iran, it is also tobacco, it is so many other issues about his money and what the guy is doing with his money.
PAGLIARULO We could go on for 24 hours, you two. Thanks a lot. Karen, Keith, I appreciate the knowledge today. We`re going to be right back right after this.
(NEWSBREAK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO Well, if you are looking far good beach book this summer, keep on looking. A deal is struck with a literary agent representing the family of stabbing victim Ron Goldman to repackage and publish O.J. Simpson`s controversial memory "If I Did It."
You remember, it`s the book that laid how O.J. would have killed Goldman and his ex-wife Nicole Brown Simpson if he had done it. The manuscript stays same but key commentary from the Goldman family will be added.
Part of the deal also stipulates that portions of the proceeds from the sale go to the Ron Goldman Foundation for Justice. Laurie Levenson is a former federal prosecutor and professor of law at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles. Laurie, I thought we had squashed this book. Why is it back?
LAURIE LEVENSON, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, the book`s back because the Goldman family wants it to be back. Instead of O.J. making money off of it, they would be going to be able to get part of that $33 million judgment paid they hope through the book proceeds so they took .
PAGLIARULO Sure, sure. I talked about this last week on the radio show and as a radio talk show host, what you do is you go in and have an opinion. You go and say, I believe this. Then the callers say you are an idiot or the callers say I agree with you.
On this one, this is one of the only topics I can think of in the past 18 years where I have said I`m not sure if it should be published, if they could get the rights and then squash it, bury it, burn it and forget about it or they should publish it and do something good with the money. You say they should definitely publish it?
LEVENSON: I think they should have the choice, frankly. They were the victims in this situation. They have a judgment that`s never been paid and frankly, they have transformed this book from the alleged confessions of O.J. Simpson that benefit him to something that they think might benefit their foundation.
PAGLIARULO I`ve heard word they might be changing the name. Any truth to that?
LEVENSON: Yes. We have heard that they`re going to change it from the "I Did It Book" to the confessions of a double murderer and put a spin on it with their own commentary.
PAGLIARULO OK. Being a law professor - and I`m not a lawyer, I don`t play one on the radio or on television, but you being a law professor, am I right or wrong that then O.J. Simpson would be able to sue them for slander or libel if they change it to confessions of a double murderer? The guy was found not guilty. You might and I might and all of America might believe he did it but the fact is in a court of law he was found not guilty. Could they not be sued then for slander by calling it that?
LEVENSON: I really doubt it because what O.J. would have to show is that it`s not true that he was a murder and, in fact, the civil judgment said that, you know, proof by a preponderance that it was more likely true than not that he was the murder. So I don`t think that there is any defamation case here.
PAGLIARULO Another question last week by the listeners is this, is O.J. Simpson now going to be off the hook if it sells more than $33.5 million worth?
LEVENSON: He might be. This might be the way that he could pay the judgment. I`m not sure that`s going to happen but there could be that silver lining for O.J.
PAGLIARULO OK. So now, by the end of the radio show, I decided yes, I think they should publish it and yes I think they make the money from it but I also feel very strongly I want them to do something altruistic with it. I want to do something in the name of Ron Goldman. The Ron Goldman Foundation for Kids, the Ron Goldman Community Center, the Ron Goldman something so 100 years from now when people hear the name Ron Goldman they`ll say he is the guy whose name is on that community center not the guy who O.J. Simpson allegedly killed.
LEVENSON: Well, Joe, they are doing just that. A portion of the proceed at least are going to the Ron Goldman Foundation for Justice. They realize that is not only good P.R. but it`s the right thing to do.
PAGLIARULO OK. So when people say it`s blood money, your answer to that is what?
LEVENSON: It`s not blood money except it has O.J.`s blood on it. It`s money that the court ordered paid that they`re finding a way to make and give to a good foundation and also get their story out.
PAGLIARULO All right. Another question that I think is going to be in the top of peoples` minds as they watch us talk about this tonight, how about the Brown family? How about Nicole Brown Simpson`s family, her parents, her sister? O.J. and Nicole`s kids together who I can`t even imagine living their life right now. What if anything do they get out of this?
LEVENSON: As I understand the deal, the Goldmans get about 90 percent of the proceeds. Ten percent of it could end up going to the Brown family and for the kids because they also got a judgment in the civil case against O.J.
PAGLIARULO OK. I`m almost out of time. But again, my little brain is working overtime here. Is there a way that the Goldmans can now say, you know what? That book, we had no idea how much it was going to sell. The actual paper is worth 50 or $60, can`t we just take that up to $33.5 million and go after him for the rest of it?
LEVENSON: Well, I think they are going to say if this pays for the judgment, fine. If not, if he tries to write anything else or do anything else down the road, we`ll still go after him for that.
PAGLIARULO Laurie, thanks a million. Appreciate the insight and the knowledge today.
Time now for today`s CNN Hero. Bobby Duval lives in Haiti where decades of poverty and violence and political instability have turned the first black independent nation in the world into the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere. Duval is working to turn the lives of impoverished children away from despair and toward hope by giving them a purpose.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
ROBERT DUVAL, ATHLETICS FOR HAITIAN CHILDREN: In the main center for the last two years, the background music that we had while the kids were playing were gunshots, machine gunshots. Some of these kids have witnessed the worst atrocities. They live in the mud. And no running water. No electricity. No garbage pickup. No food. Nothing.
My name is Robert Duvall. I`m founder of the training center, they call l`Athletiques d`Haiti, Athletes of Haiti.
This is the women`s team.
The kids never miss practice. And they`re disciplined enough to keep focused on something positive. I left this country very young. When I came back. I had a shock. What happened to my country? You know?
I started asking questions and I was thrown in jail. When I came out, I was down to 90 pounds. That means skin and bones. That just turned my life around.
This field used to be a dumping ground. Now, it`s basically an after school program. One of the driving forces that has made our program so successful is that one plate of food we give them a day. Because sometimes if those kids don`t get that, they just won`t get a plate of food.
We are soccer, track, basketball, table tennis and we have karate now.
A hero is a kid who accepts to uplift himself in the most adverse conditions, maintains the course and really does succeed in changing his life.
I feel that youth is important because the youth is the future. What I do is a drop in the bucket. A kid, he may have the most immense talent but if you don`t nourish it, you never know what he could have become.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
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PAGLIARULO According to the FBI, in this country, a violent crime is committed every 22.7 seconds. But a crime is stupid as the one you`re about to see, well, I would be surprised if it happens more than once in a lifetime. From our affiliate WSAZ in Huntington, West Virginia, Doug Korstanje has the story.
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DOUG KORSTANJE, WSAZ TV (voice-over): Despite what it looks like, this is not the victim in the robbery attempt at Shamrock liquors. Kasey Kazee is the suspect. Police say Kazee did it to himself, wrapping his head in duct tape to conceal his face. Store manager Bill Steele couldn`t believe what he was seeing.
BILL STEELE, STORE MANAGER: I mean, he probably had every opportunity to put a brown paper poke over his head and poke holes in it or a plastic bag, you know? But duct tape? I mean, this -- it`s -- it`s just unbelievable. People don`t think this really happened.
KORSTANJE: Fortunately, Steele had duct tape attached to a wooden club. That sent the suspect fleeing to the parking lot where employee Craig Miller tackled Kazee.
CRAIG MILLER, STORE EMPLOYEE: Had him basically like this and just squeezed him where he couldn`t go nowhere. Cutting off his air.
KOSTANJE: We aren`t done yet. The story gets even stranger. We interviewed Kazee in the jail and he says police have the wrong man despite the police pictures that is might suggest otherwise.
When they call you the duct tape bandit, that is not you?
KASEY KAZEE, ROBBERY SUSPECT: Look at me. Do I look like a duct tape bandit, baby? I`m not duct tape bandit. You hear me? Live 101 (ph) Assinatucky (ph), you know this is not me. Now look, do the math, do the homework man.
KOSTANJE: Store employees say Kazee also had a t-shirt up around his face making them think of Cornholio on "Beavis and Butthead." Throw in some duct tape and it does sort of become a cartoon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now I sit back and laugh about it. He was lucky because the cops said when they peeled it off, he was sweating so bad it did not stick.
KOSTANJE: But police say they have enough to make the charges stick and that`s good enough for the employees who stopped a robbery in progress.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PAGLIARULO I just want to go on record say I ain`t no duct tape bandit either, baby. If all that duct tape talk has you yearning for Glenn Beck, you`re in luck, Glenn returns from vacation tomorrow may I just say it has been an absolute pleasure filling in for him.
OK. That`s all for tonight. Nancy Grace is up next. From New York, Joe Pagliarulo, Joe Pags. Have a good night.
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