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Honest Questions with John Hagee
Aired October 12, 2007 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
GLENN BECK, HOST (voice-over): Dynamic, outspoken, controversial. Pastor John Hagee, one of America`s most popular evangelists, as well as one of Israel`s most vocal supporters.
JOHN HAGEE, EVANGELIST: From the shock and the devastation...
BECK: From his mega-church in San Antonio, his message can be heard on television and radio throughout America and throughout the world.
HAGEE: He will set his throne on the Temple Mount in the city of Jerusalem.
BECK: He`s also a best-selling author. His newest book, "In Defense of Israel", warns of the impending nuclear threat caused by Iran. And it makes the case that the U.S. must act now.
HAGEE: Undercutting the brave and heroic efforts of our military forces in Iraq.
BECK: Could the threat from Islamic extremists be a sign of the end times? And is the apocalypse almost upon us? The Reverend John Hagee joins me for an hour of honest questions, tonight.
BECK: Hello, America, and welcome to the program. We`ve got a guest tonight. Some people say that he speaks his mind and he says the things that nobody is willing to say anymore. Others say he`s a crazy man. Tonight, you decide for yourself. He`s Pastor John Hagee.
Welcome to the program, sir. How are you?
HAGEE: I`m delighted to be here, Glenn Beck. It`s a pleasure.
BECK: Thank you. I want to talk to you tonight about the things that people in the sane world just don`t say, and that is we`re living in the end times. You believe that.
HAGEE: I do indeed. And I believe the Bible is very specific to the fact that we do live in the end of days.
BECK: OK. I want to get into the -- I want to get into the top ten things of, you know, what makes you say -- I mean, because people have been saying that forever.
BECK: They`ve been saying, oh, you know -- the apostles said if Jesus is coming back -- they thought he was coming back right away. We`re 2,000 years down the line, and he still hasn`t come back. So what makes you think that we`re living in the end days?
HAGEE: Well, there are ten Bible signs that we`re living in the end of days. The Bible is the most phenomenal book that`s ever been written, because when it was written 25 percent of it was prophetic, telling the future. And these signs about the end of days do not require a theological knowledge.
So people who are watching this show, say, "Well, I don`t have Bible knowledge." You -- if you read a newspaper, you`re going to get this.
The first sign is the knowledge explosion. Daniel 12, the fourth chapter, God said to Daniel, "I want you to shut up the book until the time of the end." That`s a very important phrase. The end of days, when men shall run to and from and there will be a knowledge explosion.
From the Garden of Eden until the 20th century there was no knowledge explosion. In transportation people rode horses just as David, Julius Caesar, George Washington.
And then came the car, the jet, put people on the moon. We are that generation that`s having the knowledge explosion.
The same thing has happened in communication. From the Garden of Eden to the 20th century there was no differentiation. Then we came to the ability of telegraph, telephone, television, teleroaming (ph). You can reach somebody on an airplane...
HAGEE: ... talking to them.
And now in the field of medicine, from the Garden of Eden to the 20th century, now with medicine we`ve had to redefine death because we can literally keep someone alive on stimulants indefinitely.
BECK: OK. So the first sign is...
HAGEE: The knowledge explosion.
BECK: Knowledge explosion. Second sign.
HAGEE: Second sign is the rebirth of Israel. This is a very obvious sign.
BECK: How did -- how did the people early on miss this one? I mean, that`s a very important sign, and that didn`t happen until Israel was re- established. So how did everybody else say, "Oh, yes, forgot about that one"?
HAGEE: Well, it had to do with the time that they were living in and the theological environment in which they were raised.
My father, who was a Bible preacher, in the middle `40s made this statement: "If the state of Israel is not reborn, we have a reason to believe the Bible is not true."
And believe me, for my father, who was a Bible scholar, that was a monumental statement.
And the Bible speaks, when the disciples came to Jesus and said, "Give us the signs of the end of time. When will the end of the world be?"
And I want to say when we talk about the end of the world, it`s the end of the world as we know it.
HAGEE: For someone to say that the world is going to end, that`s simply not right.
HAGEE: The world is going to exist forever.
BECK: Right. And it becomes 1,000 years of unbelievable peace and everything else.
BECK: But you`ve got to -- and we`ll get into this a little later. You`ve got to go through horrific times to get to that 1,000 years of peace.
And I`ve often thought, you know, when September 11 happened, I thought how quickly we will forget this. Remember how great we were, and we united with everybody else. And it didn`t take too long before we forgot.
So for us to live this way for 1,000 years, what must it be like? To teach us to be humble and remember and respect each other and everything else. It must be an incredible event. We`ll get into that later.
HAGEE: Yes, we will. That`s called the tribulation period.
HAGEE: That happens after these ten signs. The rebirth of Israel. Jesus said in Matthew 24:32 that look at the fig tree, and when it blooms again you will know that my coming is nigh at hand.
BECK: OK. That`s Israel?
HAGEE: That`s Israel.
And then the third is the birth of nuclear warfare. Now, this was not something that was possible in the 1900s.
BECK: I don`t remember seeing nuclear war...
HAGEE: In the middle `50s.
BECK: Where was nuclear warfare in the Bible? Where do you find that?
HAGEE: Zachariah the 14th chapter in the fourth verse. The Bible says, "And this is the plague that God shall pour out on every nation that comes to fight against Jerusalem. That their flesh shall consume away while they stand on their feet. Their eyes shall be consumed in their sockets. And their tongue shall be consumed in the mouth."
That is a perfect picture of what happens to the human body in a nuclear blast. If you saw the videos of Hiroshima, that`s exactly what happened. The H-bomb can produce heat of 150 million degrees Fahrenheit in a millisecond. And that`s why the flesh can melt off of the body before your body can hit the ground. But it`s a perfect description of nuclear warfare.
BECK: OK. Hang on just a second. America, happy Friday so far? Enjoying it? Good.
OK. So the next sign is what?
HAGEE: Then -- then the disciples said, "Tell us what the signs will be." The first one that Jesus gave was the sign of deception. Said that you will be living in a time when you should not allow any man to deceive you. Take heed that no man deceive you. And we are living in a world of deception.
BECK: I have -- you know, we were just talking about this today in the office with a couple of my producers. I said, look how the darkness doesn`t understand the light. Look how people can`t even agree on the truth anymore.
HAGEE: Exactly right.
BECK: You don`t -- you don`t see anything the same anymore. There -- we don`t even understand each other. And I have never seen that in my life. It`s an amazing phenomenon. Is that what -- you believe that`s what he was talking about?
HAGEE: Exactly right. We have come to a point in our existence where we refuse to take responsibility, we refuse to be accountable for our actions, we don`t have the courage to say this is good and this is evil, this is right, this is wrong. And therefore, we live in this fog of political correctness, where everything is perpetual deception.
BECK: OK. Next sign.
HAGEE: Then he talks about famines. And then he talks about pestilence. A pestilence is a medical physical disease that medical science cannot stop.
For instance, right now I have a very dear friend who`s working in Washington on a serum for the bird flu. And this is a very serious person, a very responsible person.
And he looked me in the face and said, "John, I want to tell you that bird flu will come to America. We are not ready for it. And when it comes," he "said, many, many people are going to die because we`re not ready for it."
BECK: Right. I have to tell you I was up on the bird flu thing, and I -- you know, I`m concerned about the bird flu, as well, but it takes -- it`s a giant "if". It`s got to jump over to people. And if it does, then it`ll be -- then it`ll be a horrific thing.
BECK: But we`ve gone through this. But you could have said that about the bubonic plague. You could have said that about the influenza before World War I. It killed millions of people.
HAGEE: Four of my father`s brothers died with that.
BECK: OK. So what is the difference here? You`re just saying that - - you`re just saying that all of these other things are here.
HAGEE: All of these things line up together.
HAGEE: This -- there has never been another generation where you had the knowledge explosion, the birth of Israel, the birth of nuclear warfare, universal deception, famines, pestilence. And then he goes on to say earthquakes.
Earthquakes are -- have been something in the Bible that God has used from time to time to communicate with people who are spiritually deaf. Moses had a pastoral problem. About 20,000 people didn`t like him as the leader. God said, "Get those people in front of the tent of meetings, and I want to talk to them." And they got in front of the tent of meetings, and God opened the ground and buried them. The message was Moses is my man...
BECK: OK. We haven`t really seen an increase in earthquakes, though.
HAGEE: I believe that the specific record of the number of earthquakes has dramatically increased every century from the 15th century. I do have those numbers, and they have virtually doubled in the 20th century from the 19th century.
But the point that I`m making out here is that when we reach the end of days there is going to be an earthquake that is going to be, in vernacular words, the mother of all earthquakes, where the mountains are going to be reduced, where the islands of the sea will disappear, where I believe that the geography of Jerusalem and Israel are going to be reshaped, where the water flows from beneath the Throne of God down to the Dead Sea and the 12 trees are therefore the fruit for the ages to eat, by which they will have perpetual health.
BECK: Do you believe that global warming is a possible sign?
HAGEE: I don`t believe in global warming.
BECK: You don`t believe the earth is getting warmer?
BECK: No changes?
BECK: OK. So what is the -- what is the next sign? I mean, you know, I believe it`s getting warmer. Science tells us it`s getting warmer. I don`t believe man is causing it. I don`t believe that -- maybe man is causing it. I`m not convinced of that. I definitely don`t think we can solve it.
But I mean, the earth is constantly cycling. We`ve seen forever that it gets colder and warmer and colder and warmer.
HAGEE: I`m certainly for clean air and clean water, but I have books in my library written by very responsible people up into the middle 80s were talking about the ice age, where Canada was supposed to be a block of ice right now.
And now we`re talking about global warming, and I think the Kyoto Treaty is really nothing more than something to manipulate the economy of the United States.
BECK: It`s global -- it`s global socialism. Quickly, we`ve only got a minute. So give me the next one.
HAGEE: The next one is international television. Now, how does that work out? In the book of Revelation in the 11th chapter, you have two witnesses that antichrist has killed, and the Bible says the world is going to see him them in one hour. How in heaven`s name could they see two dead people in the streets of Jerusalem at one time?
That was not true in 1950. That was not true in my grandfather`s generation. It`s only true in our generation.
BECK: I remember -- I remember people saying that when we saw Tiananmen Square.
BECK: Remember the guy standing with the tank? And the whole world stopped to watch that on the other side of the planet.
BECK: And I remember people saying that very thing: this is a sign.
BECK: One of the signs. OK. And is that all ten?
HAGEE: And the last one is the sign of the scoffer. Second Peter says, "There will come in the last days scoffers saying where`s the sign of his coming, the coming of Christ?"
The very fact that there`s skepticism, so much skepticism, saying you people are crazy, believing in this, is a literal sign that Christ is going to appear.
BECK: OK. When we come back, we`re going to show you some eerie similarities in the ways that Christians and Muslims see the end of days, and are they upon us? Also, what does it look like? What can we do? Et cetera, et cetera. Coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAGEE: He`s coming, ready or not. He`s not in heaven saying, "Let`s make a deal." He`s in heaven saying, "This is the deal. I am king of king and lord of lords, and I am returning on time for the chosen place!"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECK: Back with Pastor John Hagee from Cornerstone Church in San Antonio. He`s the author of a new book called "In Defense of Israel".
I wanted to -- everybody`s look for the antichrist. Everybody says, "OK, end of times, is this going to be it? Well, then who`s the antichrist? Is he alive, et cetera, et cetera?"
I have been struck by President Ahmadinejad and how many times -- and we`ll get into this later -- he refers to the promised one.
BECK: He`s looking for the 12th imam to return.
HAGEE: He is indeed.
BECK: There is an army of the Mahdi. They -- one of the things that made hair stand up on the back of my neck is when I heard that the 12th imam was going to come out of a well and then he was going to go to ancient Babylon and conquer in ancient Babylon and rule from the world in ancient Babylon. And some of that stuff kind of sounded a little familiar to me.
I`ve had some of my researchers do some looking into the 12th imam, and it`s hard to understand the Mahdi, because there are so many sects of Islam, and so I tried to narrow it down to the kind of sect that President Ahmadinejad is from.
Would you do me a favor and tell me the comparisons, if there are any, to the antichrist for the guy that President Ahmadinejad is calling out.
BECK: OK? First of all, the first one is he will be a descendant of Mohammed. He will bear Mohammed`s name. Nothing there. Is there?
HAGEE: Nothing at all.
BECK: He will be a devout Muslim. The Mahdi will be a devout Muslim. Interestingly enough, it will be a Muslim version of Jesus, who they believe is the Mahdi. He will be the enforcer of Sharia Law when the Mahdi returns. Jesus will be the enforcer.
HAGEE: No truth to that at all.
BECK: OK. But I`m looking for...
HAGEE: No Bible connection. No Bible connection.
BECK: He will be unparalleled, spiritual, political, military world leader. He will emerge after a period of great turmoil and suffering on the earth. He will establish justice and righteousness throughout the world and eradicate tyranny and oppression.
HAGEE: There`s a measure of truth in that.
BECK: OK. You want to just jot anything -- shout anything out real quick?
HAGEE: Well, here`s the thing. The Bible says that the antichrist is going to come as a man of peace. It says he will destroy wondrously with peace. That means he`s going to make peace treaties with lots of people but never intend to keep it.
HAGEE: He promises peace, but he will, in fact, lead the world into bloody war.
BECK: OK. He will be the vice regent leader of Muslims worldwide. He will be the supreme political and religious leader for all Muslims. However, he will also then go to unite the Muslim world and the non-Muslim world and create one-world government.
HAGEE: There is a -- there is a very strong teaching that the antichrist will produce a one-world government.
BECK: OK. He will lead military action against all those who oppose him.
HAGEE: That is true.
BECK: He`s referred to here many times that he`s a great warrior. But I mean, that`s the way the Jews saw Jesus originally, too. That`s why they rejected him. They saw that he was supposed to be a conqueror, and he conquered through peace. Could it be the same kind of thing here?
HAGEE: Well, I believe that they`re looking for a warrior from day one, and they believe that, if they create the Third World War or a massive confusion on the face of the earth, that he will mysteriously and suddenly appear and come to their rescue.
BECK: Hasten it.
BECK: He will invade many countries. He will make a seven-year peace treaty with a Jew of priestly lineage.
HAGEE: He`s going to make a seven-year peace treaty with the state of Israel.
BECK: This is what -- this is what President Ahmadinejad believes of the Mahdi, the 12th imam returning, and this is also in the Bible as the antichrist?
BECK: He will conquer Israel for Islam and lead the faithful Muslims in a final slaughter or battle against the Jews.
HAGEE: He will attack the Jewish people, but he won`t conquer them. And I can give you a spin on that in just a minute.
BECK: He will establish a new Islamic world headquarters from Jerusalem.
HAGEE: He`s going to set up an eternal kingdom in Jerusalem.
BECK: That is what...
HAGEE: The Bible says.
BECK: That is what the Bible says of the antichrist.
BECK: He will rule for seven years, possibly as much as eight or nine.
HAGEE: Seven only.
BECK: He will appear riding a white horse.
HAGEE: No truth to that.
BECK: He will discover some previously undiscovered...
HAGEE: Whoa, whoa, whoa. I take that back. The sixth chapter of Revelation, the first seal is the rider on the white horse. That is the antichrist. That`s exactly right. He does come on a white horse.
BECK: He will discover some previously undiscovered biblical manuscripts and will use to argue with the Jews that will cause some Jews to convert to Islam.
HAGEE: No truth to that.
BECK: He will rediscover the Ark of the Covenant from the Sea of Galilee.
HAGEE: There`s nothing in the Bible about that.
BECK: He will have supernatural powers from Allah over the wind, rain, and crops.
HAGEE: The Bible says that he will have the ability to understand dark sentences, which means he will have a demonic anointing to know the unknowable.
BECK: He will possess and distribute enormous wealth and amounts of wealth.
HAGEE: No Bible truth to that.
BECK: He will be loved by all the people of the earth.
HAGEE: At one point in time he will be.
BECK: OK. Those are the -- those are the similarities between the antichrist of the Bible and what President Ahmadinejad is calling for in his U.N. speech.
BECK: And we`ll give you more on that here in just a second. Back in a second with Pastor Hagee with some more incredible things.
BECK: Well, it`s Friday. So of course we want to talk about the end of the world.
Welcome back to the program. We`re with Pastor John Hagee. He`s the author of "In Defense of Israel".
We were just talking about some of the comparisons of some of the comparisons of -- some of the things that my researchers found on the Mahdi as it is understood by President Ahmadinejad and Israel. And I was giving you those, and you were comparing them to the biblical antichrist.
BECK: Do you believe that -- do you believe that we, you and I, will see these times?
HAGEE: We will not see the antichrist. In Christian theology the next thing that is to happen, because the signs of the time say that we are the terminal generation, is that Christ is seen to appear. There`s not another Bible scripture that has to be fulfilled for Jesus Christ to come in what is called the Rapture of the Church.
Many people confuse the Rapture of the Church with the Second Coming. The Rapture of the Church happens where all of the people who believe in Jesus Christ are taken into heaven.
Then the next thing that happens immediately is the appearance of the antichrist. The appearance of the antichrist, he comes as a man of peace, as the prince of peace to the whole world.
Daniel says he will destroy wondrously with peace. That means he`s going to make peace treaties, never intending to keep them, but he has the world in a state of peace. He will create a one-world government. We see something of that going on in the United Nations. He will bring about a one-world currency.
BECK: He`ll do this all in seven years?
HAGEE: All in seven years. He`ll do it quicker than seven years. Every person will have to receive his mark in their right hand or forehead, without which they cannot buy nor sell. You cannot buy a loaf of bread...
BECK: How freaked out were you when you saw the chips now that we can implant that are RFID chips that will do that very thing? And they`re even making them, I understand, to fuse with the body because they`re afraid of theft.
BECK: So once they`re implanted in you, you cannot cut them out.
HAGEE: That`s exactly right.
BECK: When I heard that, I went, oh, that`s not good.
HAGEE: All of the technology is just in place. There will be you a one-world government, a one-world currency, a one-world religion. This lines up with what your researchers are talking about.
The Bible then says he will understand dark sentences, which means he will have a demonic anointing to know the unknown.
BECK: What really -- what really convinces people, though, is when he`s killed and then rises again?
HAGEE: He`s going to make a seven-year treaty with Israel and set up his image to be worshiped in Israel. And that is where I`m convinced that a Jewish person who understands who he is shoots him, because the Bible says he`s wounded in the head and recovers wondrously, emulating the death and the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
At this point in time when he comes back to life he has the personality of a Hitler. He now pursues the Jewish people. The Jewish people then go to Petra, which is a place in Jordan that is a...
BECK: I saw it in "Indiana Jones".
HAGEE: ... natural fortress. And that God is going to provide for them there protection from him.
And as he gets ready to pursue him, the Bible says that he, the antichrist, hears tidings from the east that disturb him. The tidings from the east is that there are -- the Chinese army is marching up the Euphrates River, 200 million of them, and they`re moving toward the battle of Armageddon, because they want the oil that will make them a superpower.
BECK: OK. When we come back, we`re going to talk a little bit about the Bible and Iran and Russia and where is America in all of this.
Also, something that has stuck out for me on the end days that was spoken by Condoleezza Rice. We`ll come back in just a second.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAGEE: Ladies and gentlemen, the radical Islamic army is not coming to America. It`s here. With Iran`s nuclear power and Russia`s support of Iran, Iran intends to attack Israel and America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECK: We`re back with mega-church pastor John Hagee, author of a new book, "In Defense of Israel." I want to talk to you about current-day politics and how it is all shaping up. Let`s start with Russia.
HAGEE: All right.
BECK: Russia is -- unbeknownst to a lot of people that don`t look at old maps and new maps -- Russia is actually mentioned in the Bible, and so is Iran.
BECK: And they are the real linking for the End Days, right?
HAGEE: Yes, they are.
BECK: OK. Explain that.
HAGEE: There is, in the book of Ezekiel, the 38th and 39th chapter, a description of a very graphic war that`s going to happen in the middle of the tribulation. It is a war that`s led by Russia. The Bible says that Russia will be a commander to the Islamic nations. The Islamic nations are mentioned, beginning in Ezekiel 38:5, by name, Persia, that`s Iran, and all of the nations that are coming with them. In this...
BECK: But it doesn`t mention Russia.
HAGEE: No, here`s how it -- here`s how it comes together, that in the 38th chapter, while the word "Russia" is not mentioned, the 38th chapter of Ezekiel says that God says to Ezekiel, I want you to prophesy against Gog and his kingdom. Gog is the man, and kingdom is the land of Magog. And then he gives the names of the people of which he is the prince. They are Gomer, Magog, Javan, Tubal, and Meschech.
Now, there are people who say that Meschech is the ancient name of Moscow, but the title that I go to is Genesis 10. In Genesis 10, you find the names of all of Japeth`s sons. You can`t just pick out of the air and say, "These people are such and such." Genesis 10 says that these sons are the sons of Japheth.
Ethnologists -- ethnologists are people who track people who migrate and where they go -- ethnologists have said that the Japhethites went beyond the Caspian Sea and the Black Sea, which is Russia. This is further vindicated in Ezekiel 38:5, when God says, of this commander of the Islamic armies, you will come from the far north country. That`s Russia. Many people have said, "Well, maybe that`s Syria, because they are north." But far north from Israel is Russia.
God makes it very clear that Russia is going to ingratiate themselves to the Islamic nations. Why? The Islamic nations have the oil. Russia wants the oil. God said, I`m going to put a hook in your jaw. That hook is oil. Russia has to have it to become a superpower. That`s why Putin is flexing his muscles right now. That`s why we`re getting back to the Cold War era again, because Russia wants the world to know they are going to be a strong superpower again.
BECK: All right. So let me go here, because Russia has a ton of oil. I mean, they`ve got -- they`re sitting on a ton of oil right now. But I would connect them to the Middle East, trying to play a little game. I see Russia as something that is -- they think they`re playing the game that we were playing with them in World War II. "Oh, well, we`ll sit with Stalin. We know what a monster Stalin is, but we`ll take care of him afterwards." And we had no idea what kind of can of worms we were opening up.
Does the Bible say that Russia knows who these other countries are down south?
HAGEE: No, the Bible doesn`t say that at all. The Bible says, as a matter of fact, you know, that Russia is simply a tool in the hand of God to bring this war. Why is God doing this? Why is God allowing this war? And the reason that Ezekiel says that God is allowing this war is because God is trying to introduce to Israel the fact that he, God, the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, created Israel, he`s the defender of Israel, and he, in the final analysis, is going to be the savior of Israel, because he, God, is going to supernaturally destroy this army that comes against Israel supernaturally, just as he defended the children of Israel who fled from Egypt.
Condoleezza Rice said something, I think it was last year or the year before. She said what we`re witnessing here in the Middle East are birth pangs, and that word stuck out to me. For one reason, it clearly means, if anybody who`s had children, birth pangs get stronger and closer together, and then there`s a nasty little event there at the end. In human life, it ends with something nice, but there is that extraordinary pain at the end. Does birth pangs play a role, the word "birth pangs" play a role in the Bible?
HAGEE: The birth pangs are -- the word "birth pangs" are in the scripture. And your analysis is absolutely accurate. Any woman who`s had a child knows this, that once birth pangs begin, they continue, and they become more severe and closer together until the child is born. Now, in this case, the child is the new era, or the new world order, or whatever is going -- whatever it is she`s talking about. The new era can be many things to many people.
BECK: Ahmadinejad, one spooky dude.
HAGEE: Yes, he is.
BECK: I heard a candidate refer to him as I think a buffoon the other day. I don`t think this man is a buffoon.
HAGEE: No, he`s not.
BECK: Who do you think he is?
HAGEE: I think he`s a very clever man. I think he knows exactly what he wants to do. I think the stakes that -- the statements that he`s making to the international press are statements that he`s making from prepared speeches. They`re not off the cuff. He`s saying, "I`m going to wipe Israel off the map of the Earth." He`s said Israel is going to disappear in a sudden storm. That sudden storm is a nuclear storm. He said, "I can see the day, God willing," that God being Allah, "where there will no longer be a United States of America or Israel."
This man intends to put together nuclear weapons, and he intends to use them on Israel first, and then bring them to the United States of America.
BECK: You have met prime minister after prime minister after prime minister of Israel.
BECK: I just met with Benjamin Netanyahu about a year ago, and I respect the man. I think he`s brilliant. He looked me right in the eye, and I mean his eyes bore holes through me, and he said, "We have a right to survive." And I said, "Mr. Netanyahu, you`re being set up."
BECK: Because everyone is going to say -- you`re going to attack, because you do have a right to survive, and what`ll happen is everybody will start to bring olive branches. And Putin just did it. He just said, "I see no evidence that Iran is building anything or has any nefarious kind of purposes with their nuclear program." Iran -- I mean, I`m sorry, Israel knows. They`ll go and attack, and the whole world will say, "It`s those damn Jews again."
HAGEE: That`s right. That`s exactly what happened in 1981, when the IDF destroyed the nuclear reactor in Iraq. And that is going to happen again. Anytime that Israel defends themselves, Israel is blamed for defending themselves. But if they`re going to survive, they are going to have to stop this nuclear advance.
I would hope that the United States of America would join them. Several years ago, Benjamin Netanyahu said in the offices, said in my offices, and told me that, when he was prime minister, that he carried pictorial proof to the intelligence agencies of the United States that the Russians were in Iran helping the Iranians put together missiles that had the ability to hit London, the eastern seaboard of the United States, and Jerusalem.
Now they`re trying to put together a nuclear capability to put nuclear warheads on those missiles. And he believes that their design is to hit London, Jerusalem, and New York City in one day, to bring that chaos that will bring the 12th imam, the Mahdi, into being.
BECK: Must be nice for you. You`re getting back on a plane this afternoon. I have to live here. Is there any doubt in your mind, a, that we`re not just living through another World War II? I mean, everybody said the same thing about Hitler. I mean, Hitler was a bad dude, and there were a lot of signs with Hitler, as well, as just being one evil, evil dude. Any doubt in your mind that this is the end as we know it, or is there a possibility that we`re just going to readjust here, and be able to hold things together, and conquer like we did in World War II?
HAGEE: No. There`s no doubt in my mind that we are living the End of Days. None.
BECK: Any sign or anything in the Bible that talks about how disenchantment and disenfranchisement, where I feel -- I mean, you`ve got 18,000 members of your church. Do you feel a disconnect? Do you feel how the people are starting to distrust everything? We`re disconnecting from everything.
HAGEE: There are 19,000 active members in my congregation, and I will tell you that the disconnection is very real, and especially with the government. I have never seen the American people so disappointed and discouraged with the performance of the United States Congress.
They look at the pathetic manner in which they`ve handled the border situation. They have not had the ability to give the American people protection. And now, here we are in what amounts to a national security matter, because we`re trying to keep people from smuggling nuclear weapons across that border, and my mother could get across that border.
BECK: OK. When we come back, I`m going to ask Pastor Hagee, would he vote for a Mormon? Next.
BECK: We`re back with Pastor John Hagee, author of "In Defense of Israel." When we went to the break, I gave you a second to think about it. Would you vote for a Mormon?
HAGEE: I asked that exact question to the 12 leaders of my church at the Christmas banquet last year. I said, if it comes down to a Mormon presidential candidate, would you vote for that one, or would you not vote for him because it was Hillary Clinton or someone else? Eleven out of 12 said, "We`ll vote for the Mormon."
BECK: Were you the one?
HAGEE: No, it was not me. I said, I would vote for him, because I know him to be moral, I know him to have high principles, I know him to believe in a work ethic, I know that he has a family orientation that`s very devout, and very pure, and that is basically the social problem that`s destroying the fabric of this country right now. The family is coming unraveled.
BECK: Did you see the speech by Ahmadinejad at the U.N.? Did you watch that by any chance?
HAGEE: I just saw the front, where he was praying that the imam would manifest himself.
BECK: You should go back and watch that on the Internet. I have to tell you, I have never broken out -- I`ve watched this guy, I`ve watched his translated speeches that he speaks to his own people. I`ve seen this guy for years now, I`ve been following him. I have never broken out in a cold sweat when I watched him. I did this time around.
Because he started in -- he led with the family. And he said, "There is a great attack happening on the family, and women are not being respected in the world." I mean, here`s a guy who stones women to death...
HAGEE: Absolutely, there`s honor killings.
BECK: Right. And he gave the most eloquent, beautiful speech about the sanctity of the family. And I thought, if that isn`t exactly what the devil himself would do...
HAGEE: That`s deception.
BECK: Oh, absolutely. And people watched it -- I mean, I don`t think over here, I hope not, unless you`re at Columbia University, but people watched it and bought into it.
BECK: That is the truth. And that`s what the devil would do, give you the truth. The family is breaking down, and everything else is falling apart.
HAGEE: If I had a chalkboard and about 30 minutes, I could show you that the absentee father is the basis of what`s happening in most of the crises socially of this country. When a father, when a man goes to a woman, and they have two or three children, in marriage or out of marriage, and he walks away from that marriage, leaves the woman with the children, the woman is generally without an education that can make a living for these children, so they`re on the poverty level.
The woman then has to go to work, and it`s a very meager job. The children are left with someone else. They don`t have a role model. They don`t have a core system of beliefs. When the children become teenagers, they join the gangs, looking for the leadership that was lost in the father.
The gangs in America are pushing the drugs. The drugs in America are pushing the prisons full. This is all evolving back to the fact that the missing father in the American home is not there, and I say, to every man in America, being born a male is a chance, but being a man is a choice. You should go home, be the man, provide for your wife, provide for your children.
The children are yours. They don`t belong to the state. Under God, you owe it to them to go home and be a good father to them.
BECK: I think that`s the first question the Lord is going to ask you on the other side of the veil. How did you treat your wife? How did you treat your children? And if you can`t answer those positively, you are in deep trouble.
HAGEE: I`ve said to my congregation many times, if I fail as a father, I believe that I`ve failed in my life.
BECK: Let me ask you one of the most -- you were on, I don`t know, four or five days ago on the show for a quick segment, and you had mentioned that America`s not in the Bible in the End Days.
BECK: It doesn`t play a significant role. E-mail went crazy on this. Why is America not in the Bible? Then it can`t be the End Times. How could we possibly not play a role in the End Days?
HAGEE: America`s not in the Bible, because of these things. One, we are a brand new country. When the Bible was written, God knew that we would be and only refers to us as the young lions of Sheba and Dedan. Now, we came out of England. England has the symbol of the lion. We also -- we came from England. So, therefore, we, by stretch, could say that`s referring to us.
Does America have a prominent place in prophecy? Absolutely not. Why? Does that mean that we have a Democratic administration and that there`s a war in the Middle East? Listen. There`s a war in the Middle East, and they say, "We`re not going back for any reason."
BECK: Right. Or it could be Ron Paul. Could be Ron Paul.
HAGEE: And, well, when you have senators having all-night sessions trying to figure out a date certain to retreat from the Middle East, that`s nothing but a pep rally for the enemies of Israel, for the enemies of America. So we are at a point in time when we must define our core values and defend them as a country.
BECK: Is there a candidate out there that you say, "This is the man"?
HAGEE: We are looking for a candidate that is pro-Israel. As the national chairman of Christians United for Israel -- and invite everybody in America who wants to be supportive of Israel to come and be a part of us -- we`re looking for candidates who will stand up and speak up for Israel right now.
The candidate that has done that most has been John McCain. I`m sure that as we get by February 15th, where it is more clearly defined who the final runners are going to be, because we have a thundering political herd right now, and after these...
BECK: You know, I bet there`s a lot of people out there, because I was like this before 9/11. You know, they`ve been battling on this land for 5,000 years, I don`t really care anymore. Let them figure it out. Why should we care about Israel?
HAGEE: We should care about Israel, first of all, because Israel is a democratic society, and the United States of America has always defended democratic societies. We defended England. We defended France from Hitler. We are now reliving history. It`s 1938 all over again. Iran is Germany, and Ahmadinejad is Hitler.
And Ahmadinejad has very clearly said that he intends to attack Israel. Therefore, Iran is the snake in the Middle East that`s attacking Israel. They have two terrorist armies, one on the north, one on the south, Hezbollah and Hamas, that are filled with weapons, bristling, waiting for a war to attack Israel.
BECK: All right.
HAGEE: We must stand by Israel.
BECK: I`ve got to tell you, this guy`s nuts. And I only say that because he`s saying all this stuff almost word for word of what I`ve been saying for a while. Back in a second with the lightning round. Hopefully, that`s just a metaphor. I`m just saying. Pastor Hagee, playing Nostradamus for us next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAGEE: Lightning flashes from east to west. It means the storm is over. I assure you, when Jesus comes to Earth again, the storm is going to be over! Hallelujah for the lamb of God!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECK: Pastor Hagee, here we go. Yes or no. You ready? Lightning round.
HAGEE: I hope I`m ready.
BECK: Is the anti-Christ alive today?
HAGEE: I believe he is.
BECK: End of the world as we know it in five years, 10 years, 20 years?
HAGEE: I don`t think we`ll get past 20 years.
BECK: Putin, is he part of the biblical prophecy?
HAGEE: I believe that he`s the man that`s going to cause Russia to unite the Islamic nations against Israel.
BECK: I think he`s done most of it already. Worst U.S. president in history?
HAGEE: Jimmy Carter.
BECK: I just want to shake your hand on that one. Most evil world leader aside from Ahmadinejad?
HAGEE: Oh, I`ll pass on that.
BECK: OK, divide Jerusalem if it would guarantee Middle East peace?
HAGEE: Absolutely not. I would not give Jerusalem -- giving Jerusalem to the Palestinians would be like giving it to the Taliban.
BECK: Is there more evil today in the world than any other time in history?
HAGEE: I believe that Israel -- that evil is more apparent today, and I think that it is more practiced in our society than ever. Yes.
BECK: What is the single most important rule in life to follow?
HAGEE: I believe that every person must come to a saving knowledge of the lord, Jesus Christ, because the Bible and the lord, Jesus Christ, are the foundations of faith.
BECK: What TV show would Jesus watch?
HAGEE: He probably wouldn`t.
BECK: Wrong answer. I mean, wrong answer.
HAGEE: GLENN BECK!
BECK: There you go, and you heard it.
Sir, it has been a pleasure meeting you and a pleasure having you on the program. The book is "In Defense of Israel," and it is much more than what we have talked about here. Thank you very much, sir.
HAGEE: It`s been my pleasure.
BECK: You bet.
HAGEE: Bless you for what you do.
BECK: Thank you.
We`ll be back. Thank you. America, good night.