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Glenn Beck

Honest Questions with Mike Huckabee

Aired October 19, 2007 - 19:00   ET


GLENN BECK, HOST (voice-over): Former Arkansas governor, family man and Baptist minister, unafraid to wear his faith on his sleeve.

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believe that all of us in this room are the unique creations of a god who knows us and loves us.

BECK: Meet Mike Huckabee, Republican presidential candidate who believes he can win back the GOP faithful.

HUCKABEE: Cut spending, lower taxes, bring more government back to the local people.

BECK: He says he`s the true conservative in the race for the White House. Tonight, Mike Huckabee joins me for a full hour of honest questions.


BECK: Well, hello, America. I`m going to be real -- shoot real straight with you. I haven`t found the guy that I can possibly support for president yet. I`ve begun my search, and I`ve got -- I`ve got a few of them that I like, a few of them I really don`t like.

I`m going to spend the next few months looking for somebody that I can vote for. I`ll tell you that there are a few things -- there`s actually five things that are important to me, and I`ll spell them out as we go along.

Mike Huckabee says he is the only true conservative in the presidential race and the GOP`s best chance to beat Hillary Clinton in `08. Tonight, you decide if he`s your guy, as I decide if he`s my guy.

Governor Huckabee, welcome to the program. How are you, sir?

HUCKABEE: I`m doing great, Glenn. Thanks for having me.

BECK: I -- you know, we talked a little bit in the green room before we came out.


BECK: And I just want to have a real conversation with you, because I think Americans are sick to death of politicians. I feel my audience, and I can speak for me, we`re disenfranchised from politicians on both sides of the aisle. We don`t think that they`re even listening to us.

We don`t think anybody is fighting this war to win. I feel like taxes beyond -- you know, in biblical proportions are coming our way. And we seem to think that every single politician does whatever the heck they want when they get in.

Do you feel the disenfranchisement happening in America?

HUCKABEE: Absolutely, Glenn, I really do. And I think it`s especially acute right now in the Republican Party. If I was on stage with some of those other candidates the other night in the debate that we did with one of those other networks, one of the things that struck me when they were talking about the economy, talking about how great it was, how wonderful it was.

And I`ll be honest with you. Look, if you look at 22 consecutive quarters of economic growth, yes, it`s doing great. The macro economy is doing terrific. But if you talk to cab drivers, if you talk to the people who are not necessarily making headlines but the people who are really working hard to put food on their table, they do not feel that it`s going great.

Now I`ll tell you the worst thing that can happen: raise taxes. And if you raise taxes, you`re going to further create a huge decline, and it`s going to create another level of disparity between the folks in the ruling class and the people who are becoming an increasingly -- basically a servant class.

BECK: But this is -- this is where the disenfranchisement is. You can say that about taxes.


BECK: And yet half of the country won`t even look at the fact, on our revenue intake, half of this country still says tax cuts are bad. When the -- when the proof is there that it`s not; it`s the spending that`s out of control.

So how do you even unite this country back together when we`ve been pushed off to the side, and we`re told that we have to hate the other side? How do you knit it back together when you can`t even agree on truth?

HUCKABEE: The biggest challenge we face in this country is what you just mentioned. It is that politics has become completely horizontal. Everything is left-right, liberal-conservative, Democrat-Republican. Politics ought to be vertical. And when people get elected, they ought to be asking, are we going to lift people up and this country up, or are we going to take it down?

And that`s regards to infrastructure -- roads and bridges -- the war, the economy, education, health care. Pick a topic. The average American doesn`t care who fixes it, but the average American is very frustrated that, once people are elected, they go back into this polarizing left-right stuff.

It`s not about us helping do something that solves a problem; it`s making sure the other guys come out losing and our side comes out winning. And there`s no doubt that people are tired of that.

I think we`ve got some big problems. It`s going to take some big ideas to fix them. We talked about taxes.

Look, tinkering with the tax code, waste of our time. All it does is create a few winners and a lot of losers. The only thing that really, to me, makes sense is scrap the tax system completely. Go to the fair tax.

BECK: I want to get -- I want to get to you on the taxes, and I want to get into specifics here in just a second. I just want to -- I need to hear from you on a couple of things.


BECK: One, that you truly get the disenfranchisement. I have had people call me, and I`ve been in broadcasting now 30 years.


BECK: I have never heard this country like it is now. I have never heard people call me up, normal people. I went to Texas. In a 24-hour period I think I had five -- five or six guys coming up to me, normal, suit, dressed like you, and say, "When do we have to grab our guns and take our country back?" In a 24-hour period. I`ve lived in Texas for a while. Never heard that.

People are -- are living on the edge, and they don`t -- they don`t trust.

Now, let`s start with just the GOP.


BECK: I`m a recovering alcoholic, Governor. I mean, I know if you can`t point to a place in your life where you say, "That is the point to where I had to change or it would have been death," you haven`t changed.

I haven`t heard that pivot point from the GOP. I haven`t heard them stand up and say, "Jesus, forgive me, because boy, did we screw up."

Where`s their bottom? Why should we trust the GOP?

HUCKABEE: I don`t know that you should trust the GOP. I think the GOP has got a lot of problems. I`m a Republican, want to stay that way. But frankly, far more important to me than the party itself are the principles that made me a Republican.

Look, I didn`t grow up Republican. I grew up in south Arkansas. There weren`t any Republicans in Hope, Arkansas, when I grew up there.

BECK: Another guy from Hope.

HUCKABEE: Yes, I know, but it`s a different guy. Different guy, different views and everything. But the fact is I became a Republican out of conviction.

I believe in the sanctity of life. I believe in lower taxes, more local government. There are some basic things that cause me to say, "Look, I need to be a Republican." When the Republican Party abandons those principles, they abandon me.

BECK: Where did they -- where did they -- where did the train go off the tracks?

HUCKABEE: First of all, the spending issue. Second of all, incompetence. They haven`t managed things well. Third, there`s been a complete indifference to corruption.

If you really want to make the American people mad, let them think that you`re going to run on this platform of reform and integrity and honor, and then when you get there, you have just as many problems with corruption as the other guys; you don`t seem to be able to snuff it out or to stand against it very firm; you want to blame everybody else for the problems; you don`t stop the spending.

When something of cataclysmic proportion happens like Katrina, look, we bungled that. We just flat bungled it. Every level of government did. But I saw it firsthand.

We had 75,000 people coming up from New Orleans in my state. The state`s population in Arkansas increased by 3 percent in five days. And we saw how those people had literally been abandoned out there.

Look, I`m not one of these who say, "Look, it`s all the government`s fault; they`ve got to take care of it." But I saw how the government could have done things and how they miserably failed and then wouldn`t even own up to the way that they could have fixed it.

BECK: Well -- well, then help me. If you are, indeed, a conservative, help me here.

HUCKABEE: All right.

BECK: When did we become a nation of people that stand on our roof with signs that say: "Help Me"?

HUCKABEE: That`s not what I`m fussing about. I`m fussing about the fact that when the government at the federal level could have turned some things over to states and say, "Make some decisions at the local level."

We pulled everything back to a bottleneck government in Washington. One of the biggest mistakes we ever made was creating an overly large homeland security department that handles both terror acts and natural disasters. You approach them completely differently.

FEMA ought to be a stand-alone entity, because when you deal with a terrorist attack, then you have a crime scene. You`ve got to preserve evidence. You need to be looking at ways in order to preserve the integrity of the evidence that you are dealing with, because you`re trying to bring people to justice.

When you have a tornado or you have a hurricane or an ice storm, it`s a completely different set of rules. Then it`s not about preserving evidence. It`s about preserving property and people and providing as...

BECK: So how do you, how do you change homeland security? Who do you take this -- I mean, both sides are running towards bigger government. We`re practically the Soviet Union.

HUCKABEE: Move those decisions back to the local governments. Look, Thomas Jefferson was right.

BECK: How do you do it? I know he was.

HUCKABEE: He was right.

BECK: But nobody reads this stuff anymore. Nobody knows the Constitution.

HUCKABEE: That`s the problem.

BECK: Exactly right.

HUCKABEE: The Republicans -- and look, with all due respect, under this administration we`ve become more Hamiltonian. I almost see the ghost of Alexander Hamilton coming up out of the grave, taking the federal government over.

And I want to say, excuse me, we had this debate 230 years ago. Jefferson won. We have a weak federal system, strong states, not the other way around. What we don`t want in this country is to have an overly centralized federal government where everything has to go and then you have really weak states that have to raise their hand and ask permission.

BECK: So how do you correct this? I mean, I don`t know if you`re aware of this. Twenty-six states now have secessionist movements in them.

HUCKABEE: Well, I`m not advocating secession.

BECK: No, no, I understand that. How do you reset it?

HUCKABEE: Part of it is the president needs to set a tone, first of all, to remind people what they should have learned in ninth grade civics, and that is that federalism is the law and the policy of the land, and the Tenth Amendment ought to mean something.

But then secondly, the president needs to lead the Congress in helping to get back to the place where we realize what federalism really means, and it`s not to bring everything tightly into Washington. That`s what we`ve done. The results are disastrous.

We`re seeing it in everything from tax policy. We`re seeing it in the way that we approach -- even the way in which the National Guard troops are utilized. As a governor I saw this for 10 1/2 years, and it`s getting worse with every single year.

BECK: OK. Right back with presidential politics. Not playing hardball. We`re actually having a conversation with Governor Mike Huckabee. Back in a second.


BECK: Back with Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee.

It`s nice to have you, sir.

HUCKABEE: Thank you, Glenn.

BECK: I am -- I have a very conservative audience on the radio and television. And I have been surprised at their response when I said -- I was in Washington. I was having dinner across the street from the White House. I was up on top of a building. I looked down, I could see the Oval Office.

And I said to the guy who was with me. I said, "Right there, in that room, decisions are made that affect hundreds of millions of people. And how many people do we have that is running for the president of the United States that actually pray on their knees?"

I couldn`t believe the response I got from so much of America. They said, "Why do you have to pray on your knees?"

Tell me why it`s important to pray on your knees if you`re the president of the United States.

HUCKABEE: It shows humility. It shows that you truly understand that you`re not God; you`ve been elected to be president. That means you`ve been elected to be a servant. You`re not elected to be the lord. It`s a big difference.

And I don`t think the physical posture is what`s necessary in prayer. I do a lot of prayer when I`m running.

BECK: Yes.

HUCKABEE: I do pray a lot of different ways.

BECK: Yes.

HUCKABEE: And sometimes when people don`t even realize I`m praying. I`m standing at a podium, somebody`s asking a question. I`m praying real hard: "Dear God, give me an answer real quick."

BECK: Have you ever -- have you ever made the decision on something and then prayed on it and changed your mind?

HUCKABEE: I try to pray before I make the decision. I think that`s the better way. I think that`s what you go to as a Christian believer. I believe in James, Chapter 1 Verse 5: "If any man lack wisdom, let him ask God, who giveth to all men and giveth liberally and upbraideth not."

I think that what we do is sometimes we end up, you know, pulling our guns out of the holster. We take the shot and then we say, "Now, let`s see. Did I check the target?" What we need to do is to first do the praying and then make the deciding. And sometimes that has to happen pretty quickly.

BECK: You left your Baptist ministry -- you were -- you were a minister, a very popular minister in your Baptist church. Do you believe God called you? Are you standing in this role because you feel prompted?

HUCKABEE: I don`t see this in any way a conflict of my ministry. I see it an extension of my calling. I think the ultimate calling for a Christian believer is to be salt and to be light.

And the metaphor that Jesus used, salt, was not a seasoning to kind of spice it up. It was preservative. In the day of Jesus there was no refrigeration. There weren`t ice chests. When the fish came out of the water -- by the way, the fish were like Baptists. As soon as they come out of the water, they start spoiling. We like to say that.

But when the fish come out of the water you packed them in salt, and that preserved them.

So when Jesus was standing at the Sea of Galilee and he said, "You`re the salt of the earth," what he meant was when things are spoiling, when things are rotting and decaying, then faith is what keeps them from getting worse. Faith and being the salt preserves. So be the preservative. If you`re not going to be the preservative, you`re like sand; you might as well not even exist. He was very bold about that.

BECK: It`s interesting to me that we are a people now that -- we like the look of a godly man, but if we hear someone say, you know, in James, Chapter 1, we recoil. What is that? Why is that? Can a guy who can quote the Bible be elected president in today`s world?

HUCKABEE: Well, if he can`t, then we`ve lost more than an election. We`ve lost a country. This country was founded on people who believed very strongly in faith.

When I come to Washington, one of the things I like to do is to run and go out around the memorials. And if you`ve not been -- and I`m not saying you specifically.

If people haven`t been to the Jefferson Memorial lately, I urge them to do it, and go and look at the inscriptions. Or read Lincoln`s second inaugural address. And I wonder, why can`t we talk like this anymore?

These are the people who shaped our country. These are the people who wrote the very documents, on whose blood has fallen our freedom. And now it`s almost -- if I said those words and didn`t tell you it was Jefferson, somebody would probably be filing a lawsuit or there would be a lot of talk shows saying, "Mike Huckabee can`t be president. He actually used words like this."

All I`d be doing is quoting the Founding Fathers.

BECK: You know, as a fellow man of faith, that the lord has promised he will make weak things strong.

HUCKABEE: Mm-hmmnm.

BECK: I believe that is a personal thing that all of us -- we misunderstand that. I believe that our weaknesses are our -- end up being our strengths if we just deal with them, because they`re the only things we have to pound out and forge with fire.

If we don`t address them, we cut ourselves. When somebody else pulls them out, they can kill us with our own -- our own weapon.

What is the weakest thing about you? What is the thing that you found weak and forged?

HUCKABEE: You know, I grew up not with a great deal of confidence because I grew up in a household where there was struggle. I didn`t have the nicest clothes. I didn`t live in the nice house. I didn`t have the sort of privilege that a lot of my friends had.

And I think that puts you sort of in this position of thinking, "I`m not as good as those other kids."

And what I had to learn by faith, and it was a faith issue, was that God makes up the gaps. And that`s to me what grace means. God fills in all these gaps. And there are a lot of gaps for me.

When people say, "Well, you`re one of those Christian types. Does that mean you think you`re better?" I say, "No, no, no, you don`t understand. Being a Christian means I know I`m not nearly as good as I even need to be, so I`m not going to be upset because you`re not everything you ought to be, either."

It doesn`t mean, I think, I`m better. It means that I`ve accepted the fact that I know there are great big gaps in my life, and that`s where grace has to come in and fill those in.

BECK: OK. Can`t leave the faith section without asking this question.


BECK: Would you vote for a Mormon?

HUCKABEE: You know, I don`t know that that would be an impediment, but what I really want to do is I want for somebody whose views are not just compatible with mine but whose views are compatible with their views.

I want somebody to be consistent. I want someone whose compass points north and always has. I don`t care if a person disagrees with me.

Quite frankly, Glenn, I can live with someone who is 180 degrees different from me. I just want him to look me in the eye and tell me, "This is what I believe." Not because the political winds are blowing this way.

And if the person says -- let me give you an example. Pete Stark is a member of Congress. He`s a Democrat. He`s an announced, professed atheist. I was asked on Bill Maher`s show does that bother me. And I think I shocked him. I said, "No, Bill, I have more respect for Pete Stark, who says, `Hey, I`m an atheist`"...

BECK: That`s why I vote for Joe Lieberman. I vote for Joe Lieberman. I know when he closes the door he`s going to say the same thing behind my back that he said to my face.

HUCKABEE: Well, character has often been described and defined as character is who you are when nobody else is looking. And I think that`s so important. People are looking for authenticity in their leaders. Not perfection. Because none of us can provide that. None of us can be perfect. But we can be authentic.

And you know, there are times I have to look at people and say, "Look, you guys disagree with me on this, but I can live with that. But..."

BECK: Getting down to the nitty-gritty with some of the policies that Governor Huckabee would like to bring to the country if he is, indeed, president of the United States.

Back in a flash.





BECK: Well, I mean, he can do that. Why not put him in the Oval Office? Back with Republican presidential candidate, former Governor Mike Huckabee.

Three minutes and 48 seconds. You tell me why we seem to be headed toward socialism while all of the old socialist countries are headed towards flat taxes.

HUCKABEE: Well, because I think we`ve got a Congress that loves the power they have to manipulate the tax code. So it empowers them even more. What we need is a complete unshackling of our tax system.

Stop the tax on productivity. If I were president, I would push toward a complete elimination of taxes on personal and corporate income, savings, dividends, capital gains, and death. And what we would replace it with is a simple consumption tax that would be levied at the point of consumption at the retail level. It...

BECK: The fair tax.

HUCKABEE: The fair tax.

BECK: OK. What is it? It`s like a flat tax...

HUCKABEE: It`s a flat tax, 23 percent consumption.


HUCKABEE: Now, you`re going to have people argue and say, no, it`s really 30. It`s 23 percent.

But here`s what happens. Currently, 22 percent of everything we purchase is an embedded tax. Corporations don`t pay taxes. They just build it into the cost of the product and they sell it.

BECK: Sure.

HUCKABEE: Here`s what`s happening. We`re losing manufacturing because if something is manufactured in Europe, they don`t levy the tax before it`s exported here. So it comes in to us tax-free.

Our manufacturers have the embedded tax, and guess which product ends up being cheaper? We`ve got a higher tax rate than France, for heaven`s sakes.

Now, the way to fix it is to change the tax code completely, get rid of the IRS, which we would do. That`s also a freedom of speech issue. No longer would some pastor be told, "You can`t say that because the IRS can come get you," because we`d come get the IRS and throw them out. April the 15 becomes just another pretty spring day in America.

But what really happens is that $10 trillion of capital that`s now sitting offshore, American money that has been moved offshore to protect it from our tax system, comes back. What would happen if $10 trillion of capital poured back into the economy?

BECK: Let me ask you this: how do you solve things like, if I buy a new home it`s taxed, if I buy an old home it`s tax-free? What happens to the construction industry?

HUCKABEE: Well, because the construction industry doesn`t have to pay that embedded tax on the building materials that it currently has to pay. So when people act like there`s going to be this huge increase in costs, no, quite the opposite.

Here`s what the beauty is. When you go to buy something, guess what? You`re going to be buying it with your entire paycheck. When is the last time that a working American saw his entire paycheck? What we see is the check minus all the deductions we get.

So it would be pretty novel if we had that kind of system. And by the way, that means that all the people in the underground economy, the drug dealers, the illegals, the prostitutes, the pimps, the gamblers, guess what, they`ll be paying the same taxes...

BECK: They will say to you that yes, and so will the poor.

HUCKABEE: But the prebate, and this is the key. The reason I personally embrace the fair tax is that there is a prebate mechanism that every single person -- and by the way, this only benefits citizens. So if you`re illegal, it`s another way that we make sure you`re not getting benefits away.

But if you`re a citizen, then you get, at the first of each month, an amount for each member of your household that`s the consumption tax up to the poverty level, which means that you are untaxing the poor for all of their necessities.

Now, everybody gets it. It`s not just the poor. So if you`re Bill Gates or Warren Buffett, you still get the prebate. You say, "Well, I don`t need it. Fine, send it back in." Nothing keeps from you sending it back in.

BECK: That won`t happen.

Governor, thanks very much. Hang on. Back in just a second. On -- on Mike Huckabee, why he believes he`s the one true conservative candidate in the GOP`s presidential race. Coming up.



HUCKABEE: That I will well and faithfully discharge...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... the duties of the office of governor...

HUCKABEE: ... the duties of the office of governor...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... of the state of Arkansas...

HUCKABEE: ... of the state of Arkansas...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... upon which I am now about to enter.

HUCKABEE: ... upon which I`m about now to enter.


HUCKABEE: So help me god.


BECK: Back with Arkansas governor, former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee. He is running for president of the United States.

I`m going to do a rapid fire with you here in a second, but let me just -- I want to cover three things in the next 10 minutes.

HUCKABEE: All right.

BECK: First one is, why the heck are we still on foreign oil?

HUCKABEE: Because I think we are tied to the house of Saud, and it`s high time that we take ourselves and untie that rope behind our back, which is an oil-soaked rope. I don`t know what it is. I think it`s -- look, the next president ought to say we`re going to be energy independent, self- sustaining by the end of my second term.

BECK: You know what? We`ve heard it before. We keep hearing it -- 20 years we`re going to be...

HUCKABEE: No, 20 years is too long, Glenn.

BECK: Since Jimmy Carter they`ve been saying this crap.

HUCKABEE: Actually, you go all the way back to Richard Nixon in 1973, Project Independence started. Jimmy Carter renewed it. Ronald Reagan renewed it. Nobody`s done it. Look, it`s time that we finally decide that this is not just an energy issue; it`s a national security issue.

We need to say to the Saudis, we`re going to care about as much about your oil as we do about your sand, and within 10 years, you can do whatever you want to do with your oil, but we`re not going to need it anymore, because we`re going to find alternative sources of energy that we can sustain. If a country can`t feed itself, if it can`t fuel itself, and if it can`t fight for itself by manufacturing its own weapons of self-defense, it`s not free. It`s outsourced its freedom to whoever provides those three things.

BECK: Do you think we are free anymore? I think we`re so tied to all these other countries and companies...

HUCKABEE: And look what we`re doing. The LOST treaty, the Law of the Sea Treaty, we`re about to ratify this. It`s the dumbest thing we`ve ever done. It`s like taking our sovereignty and handing it over to some international tribunal. What`s wrong with us?

BECK: Explain the LOST theory -- or LOST treaty.

HUCKABEE: The Law of the Sea Treaty essentially would say that the United States would give up certain controls of its territorial waters. It would give up its sovereign understanding of what it can do within its own seas, both at the surface and within the depths, and that we would virtually hand ourselves over to an international body of justice.

Look, this country established itself under one authority, the Constitution of the United States, not some international treaty, not international law. It ought to be scary enough you have federal judges at the appellate level who are using international cases as a precedent for their decisions.

This is the kind of continuation of what is not a matter of saying, "Hey, we live in a great big world, we`re in a global economy." We`re way beyond that when we start saying we`re going to subject ourselves to international law.

BECK: We`re already there with the Medellin case in the Supreme Court. They heard that last...

HUCKABEE: That`s exactly right, and that`s an outrage. And I cannot understand -- the same thing, true, I hear people talk about just, in essence, removing all the borders. You know, we have NAFTA, and we have CAFTA. What I`ve said is, we need HAFTA. HAFTA means everybody else have to live by the same rules we live by, and we`re not enforcing that. Not with the Chinese, not with nations to the north and the south of us. If we don`t do it, we are outsourcing our freedom.

BECK: OK. So let me just cover -- let me back up here. Let`s go back and talk about the Medellin case here just a little bit, because that one is riddled with all kinds of booby traps and land mines.

One, that is, if the Supreme Court rules in favor of Medellin, that means an international tribunal, the Hague, is above the Constitution, right or wrong?

HUCKABEE: Absolutely right. In fact, we ought to impeach the judges who vote that way, because they have violated their oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States. There is no obligation for a United States court to say, "Let`s see what they think over there at the Hague." Heck with that. We have law. You come to this country; you break our law; you suffer the penalty of our law, not your law. You want to break your law? Go home and do it. But in our country, break our law, and the law will break you.

BECK: This is why I -- quite honestly, this is why I think, this and the border, because I don`t believe -- I believe there`s corruption. I believe there is corruption and money and something I can`t put my finger on it, but I will tell you that that SPP -- you`re familiar with the SPP -- I think that thing is -- we have handed our sovereignty over to these global corporations. And Canada and Mexico and President Bush are all in on saying, "We need to have a big, giant European Union-kind of style government," and we`ve handed it away. And that`s why people keep asking me about the Second Amendment, and I want my gun.

HUCKABEE: And the Second Amendment is not about hunting. I get so frustrated when some candidates asked about the Second Amendment, they start telling me, "Well, I have a hunting license, and I`m a member of the NRA." Look, so do I. It`s not about the Second Amendment.

The Second Amendment is about freedom. It`s about protecting ourselves, our families, our property, and ultimately, if necessary -- I know this sounds pretty bold -- but from our own government, when they get out of control. That`s what it`s all about.

BECK: So you tell me what they should have done after Katrina in New Orleans, when they went door to door to take the guns -- you know, Newt Gingrich just said...

HUCKABEE: The Department of Justice should have -- instead of supporting that, should have said, "My gosh, you can`t do that."

BECK: They`re not going to do that. They`re not going to do that, Governor. You know that and I know that.

HUCKABEE: Well, I wouldn`t appoint an attorney general, as president, who didn`t understand what the Second Amendment did, and it gives the rights to individuals, not to geographical locations, not to police entities. It gives that as a fundamental right, just in the same way -- if we value the First Amendment, then we have to value the Second. And I don`t understand why more people, particularly in the media, who embrace, love, and herald the First Amendment, don`t realize that, once you start chipping away at any of them, you chip away at all of them.

BECK: So let me go back. You are a citizen, and Newt Gingrich just gave a speech where he said, "I don`t think people are paying attention to their liberties." He said, "All it`s going to take is one city to be destroyed, and they`ll come and take all your liberties, and we will hand it to the federal government."

So you tell me. The federal government says, "We`ve got to get all these handguns, we`ve got to get all these guns off the street," and they come knocking at your door, and they say, "Governor, I`m sorry, I`m here for any gun that you might have." What do you say?

HUCKABEE: Well, being the first governor in America with a concealed carry permit, they need to understand something: They`re not going to do that, because that is an ultimate violation of my basic constitutional right to protect myself.

And unless I`m a criminal, they have no right to confiscate anything from me, especially -- see, they`re not confiscating my firearm. Here`s what we`ve got to understand. They`re confiscating my constitutional rights. And once they take that one away, then they can take away every other right, the right of a fair trial, the right of speech, the right of assembly, the right of worship. It doesn`t stop.

And I`m not trying to be some, you know, radical guy. I`m just trying to say that this is a dangerous precedent, and those people who defend the destruction of the Second Amendment need to think through where they`re headed with that.

BECK: Tell me what`s going on, on the border. Why are we not building this? What`s going on? What have we sold out? Why is Ramos and Compean still in jail?

HUCKABEE: I have no idea. It`s embarrassing that these people were put in prison for doing their jobs, and what they should have been given is a medal, not a prison sentence. It`s an outrage. We ought to be building a secure border.

I want to be very clear: I don`t begrudge that people want to come to this country. Glenn, I`ve said many times, I want to say again, I thank God every day that I live in a country people are trying to break into, not one they`re trying to break out of.

But we ought not to make it so easy that it`s harder for me to get on an airplane in Little Rock, Arkansas, and go somewhere in the next state than it is for somebody to jump an international border.

I`m not mad at the immigrants. I am angry at our government for completely being derelict in fixing this problem by having a secure border, making me go through taking my toothpaste out and put it in a plastic bag, so I can get on a plane, but somebody can jump the border and they don`t even so much have a piece of paper with them to tell me who they are, where they`ve been, and if they have a criminal background.

BECK: OK, so how do you fix it? Because you have the DREAM Act going through. You have members of Congress openly -- I mean, I have to tell you, I think America needs to reread the Declaration of Independence, because I feel exactly the way our founding fathers did. We keep begging you to solve these problems, and you cause repeated injury. You injury us again. You`ve got the DREAM Act going there. You have the AFL-CIO now suing in court to make sure that Chertoff can`t go get the companies. How do you solve it?

HUCKABEE: Well, you have to start with the border, because if you don`t do that, nothing matters. Everything else is nonsense and talk until you have a secure border and say, "It stops here."

The second thing you do is you have to go after the companies. You`re not going to get illegals who don`t even speak the language to just lift their hand and say, "By the way, I`m here illegally." What you do is you say, if you employ people, you have to know who they are, and they have to have verification of their citizenship or their legal status. And if you don`t have that, then it`s you that`s going to pay the fine.

You know, if you deal with the demand, the supply will take care of itself. And that`s what we have not done in this country.

BECK: I have 60 seconds. You tell me what America looks like in six years from now, same distance we are from 9/11, six years from now, we keep going down this path and we don`t change anything. What`s America look like?

HUCKABEE: If we keep going down this path, I think you`re going to see, particularly if Democrats get control, higher taxes, government-owned health care. You`re going to see less secure borders. We`re going to have continually a complete sort of destruction of our American culture, in terms of language.

You`re also going to see our education system continually move away from what it needs to, which is stricter standards, and go to more mush. I believe, also, we`re going to have a less of a firm stick when it comes to dealing with the radical Islamofascists, which is an enemy that will kill us if we don`t stand firm against them. And we`re going to have individual rights trampled upon.

BECK: OK. We`ll be back in just a second. It`s rapid fire for the governor.


BECK: We`re back with Governor Huckabee.

Sir, I`m pleased to have you here.

HUCKABEE: Thank you.

BECK: I`m very grateful. I`m going to do a rapid fire with you. Yes or no, you can expand on them if you wish, but I`d prefer to get through them and them maybe we`ll come back to them. You just say, "I want to come back and explain that one," all right?

HUCKABEE: All right.

BECK: Wiretaps, the Patriot act, we`re at war, you do what you have to do to win as long as it has a sunset attached to it?


BECK: OK. We need to build a fence. What the hell? Let`s build two.

HUCKABEE: You mean two, north and south?

BECK: Yes, north and south.

HUCKABEE: Yes, absolutely.

BECK: Illegal immigration is a huge threat to our nation.


BECK: Spending is out of control. Politicians need to cut programs, knowing that some of those programs will be good.


BECK: Which program would you cut?

HUCKABEE: Oh, let`s come back to that one.

BECK: OK. We need to support a coal-to-oil program.

HUCKABEE: A coal-to-oil program?

BECK: Coal-to-oil program.

HUCKABEE: I think we need to get rid of most fossil fuels and go to wind, and solar, and nuclear, and biomass fuels, and everything. But in the meantime, interim, coal, yes, and even domestically produced oil out of the Arctic refuge and the intercontinental shelf.

BECK: Are you going to eat caribou? Is that what you`re saying to me, that you`re going to shoot the poor, little baby caribou?

HUCKABEE: I would love to, because I`d love to have one in the freezer and one on the wall.

BECK: One of my producers had caribou this weekend, and it`s very good stuff. I`m sorry. Did I say that out loud? By the way, what do you think of Al Gore?

HUCKABEE: I`m glad he`s the former vice president.

BECK: Yes. He deserves that medal, though, didn`t he? I mean, he was up against the woman who only saved 2,500 kids. I`m sorry. Let`s see. We must rid ourselves of foreign oil reliance.

HUCKABEE: Oh, absolutely.

BECK: I believe that a North American alliance in the style of the E.U. is our future.

HUCKABEE: It`s our death.

BECK: Do you believe it`s being -- do you believe in a NAFTA superhighway, that this is just kind of -- you know, the government never puts these things out on the table. They always just put a little here and a little there, and then they deny, "No, we`re not doing that."

HUCKABEE: Anytime we give up anything of our sovereignty, whether it`s our borders, or our laws, or our regulations, we have violated our own Constitution. The answer`s no.

BECK: Do you believe that that is some people`s plan, to put that whole NAFTA superhighway...

HUCKABEE: I think it`s some people`s plan. I don`t know if it`s the president`s plan, but I do believe there are those who think that`s a grand idea, and I think it`s a terrible idea.

BECK: English needs to be our official language?

HUCKABEE: Absolutely.

BECK: My kids attend public school.

HUCKABEE: Yes. In fact, I was the first governor in 50 years whose children attended only the public schools of Arkansas for their entire first-through-12th grade education.

BECK: One of the biggest problems in our country is special interest groups.

HUCKABEE: I don`t think it`s a problem. The problem is that government lets special interest groups run over them; that`s the problem. Special interest groups are simply letting people express their First Amendment freedoms.

BECK: Teachers union is a large obstacle in the way of fixing our schools?

HUCKABEE: Could be, but it doesn`t have to be. I think that sometimes they are. Not always, though.

BECK: Companies should receive crippling fines if they repeatedly knowingly hire illegal immigrants.


BECK: I would vote against what my constituents want if I believe they`re wrong.

HUCKABEE: I would have to face them and tell them why and be willing to suffer the political consequences.

BECK: OK. I`ll take that as a yes, then?


BECK: I would vote against my party if I believed they`re wrong.

HUCKABEE: Absolutely. I`ve done...


BECK: Where was my party wrong about?

HUCKABEE: Spending, about negotiating away the sanctity of human life, about acting as if those issues aren`t important, about failing to stand up against corruption. Those are some things right away.

BECK: The other party is right about what?

HUCKABEE: I`m going to have to scratch my head on that one. And I`ve often said, Democrats aren`t wrong on everything, but I can`t think of anything right offhand about which I want to embrace, because I think they`re wrong on the war, they`re wrong on taxes, they`re wrong on spending, they`re wrong on the sanctity of life, they`re wrong on their idea to completely rewrite the rules of marriage. So, you know, I`m not sure where I go. I`ll work on it. I`ll come up with something.

BECK: The president is most right about?

HUCKABEE: His understanding of the threat of Islamofascism that we really are at war.

BECK: Tell me about that. Tell me about Ahmadinejad. Who is he? What is he planning? Do you take him at his word, or I have heard -- and I believe it was Romney that said he was a buffoon. Is he a buffoon, or is he...

HUCKABEE: Oh, I think he played one at the U.N. and certainly in his speech at Columbia, but he`s not a complete buffoon. He is a danger. He`s a threat. But even more so is the person who controls his strings, which is the ayatollah. I think we need to understand that Iran has a relatively weak presidency compared to ours.

So he personally is not our greatest threat. What our greatest threat is, is the ideology that drives this whole Islamofascist movement. Now, quite frankly, Iran is still a nation-state. What worries me more is the Islamofascism that results in these terror cells, which are not tied to a nation, not tied to a state. They`re not tied to a flag, a country, a nationality or borders. They`re everywhere, and that`s what`s going to really rise up and bite us if we`re not totally vigilant.

BECK: Tell me about Speaker Pelosi trying to get the -- what was it - - the genocide...

HUCKABEE: With the Turks?

BECK: Yes, with the Turks. You know, the -- what do you call it? The passage of the slap against the face against the Turks for the genocide in, what was it, 1914.

HUCKABEE: Yes, I`m not sure what the timing is all about. I mean, it`s one thing that we`re going to deal with all these issues, but why right now, with the tension that we have at the Turkish border and the situation in Iraq, why we would bring that up right now, I don`t know.

BECK: You`re a biblical guy. You`re a preacher. Do you believe we are possibly facing End Times scenarios with any of the events that we`re seeing?

HUCKABEE: You know, every generation has thought that they were, and we could be, but we don`t ever act like, "OK, this is it," so we just sit back and coast and ride it out until the end. We always act as if it could be today, but we also plan as if it could be 100,000 years from now.

BECK: So what is it that is in us that stops so many Americans -- I don`t think we`ve ever faced a threat like we are facing now. I don`t even think Germany is the threat that we`re facing right now. We`re facing, I believe, our possible annihilation as a country...

HUCKABEE: You`re exactly right.

BECK: ... from six different angles.

HUCKABEE: And that`s the problem. With Germany or with any other enemy we`ve ever had, it was at least localized to a degree. There were boundaries and borders. There were flags. There were insignia. There was ideology that drove it.

What we have here is, in essence, a move toward a different type of theocracy. And the reason many Americans don`t understand it is because they try to Westernize Islamofascism. You can`t do that, because with Islamofascism, you have the perfect, complete marriage of the religion and the government toward the caliphate.

And when you do that, you have something that is insidiously dangerous, because it doesn`t have to have any type of traditional geopolitical lines of attack. And that`s why there are terror cells on every continent. They`re everywhere. And these are not people with whom we can negotiate, because they have one thing in mind: our annihilation and their complete domination of the Earth.

BECK: The other guy from Hope, Arkansas. We`ll be back in just a second with Mike Huckabee.


BECK: We`re back with the final minutes with GOP presidential candidate Governor Mike Huckabee.

I`ve got to tell you, you hacked me off. I was hoping I could write you off as a candidate after this hour, and I can`t.


BECK: You`re a genuine guy. I don`t know. I come home -- I drive home and go talk to my wife, and I say, "You`ve got to watch this, look at his eyes, I can tell that he was lying, or I can see it right there," or whatever. Television does not do justice to people, because you can`t really tell a lot of the times. You`re a real genuine guy, and I believe you believe the things that you are saying.

HUCKABEE: I have to. You know, Glenn, I told you during the break, my dad taught me one simple thing: Tell the truth. You don`t have to remember what you said the next time.

BECK: Yes.

HUCKABEE: If people want to reject me as their president, I want them to know what they`re rejecting. So I`m not going to tell them something I don`t believe. I`ll be honest with them. And if I get thrown out, then so be it.

BECK: Well, my dad used to say, "You`re too stupid to lie," so (INAUDIBLE) tell me why -- because I`ve heard a lot from my audience about you. Tell me why Ron Paul is raising more money, yet you have higher approval ratings and he`s out-raising you. Why?

HUCKABEE: Well, there`s a strong base of support for Ron Paul because he`s a libertarian, and he`s the only candidate that the libertarians have. And I understand that completely. He`s got a very fanatic group. There are a lot of us who are what I`d call more true Republicans, but yet what`s happened -- I didn`t start with a lot of money.

And the way this game works right now is that, if you have money, you can get money. If you don`t start with money, it`s harder to get it. But I think when you look at what we`ve done with the little we`ve had, it`s pretty remarkable, and it shows that there is a growing support. And I`m convinced that, when this thing is over, I`m going to still be standing.

BECK: OK. Who would you pick for vice president if you were running? Is it Stephen Colbert? Because...

HUCKABEE: Well, you know, I think he`ll turn me down, but I did promise, since he was the first to ask me.

BECK: And who would -- would you run as a second on a ticket if you were asked?

HUCKABEE: I`m not going for the silver medal. I`m still shooting for the gold. And I`m not trying to be coy. But, you know, if I ever start thinking, "OK, I`ll just settle for second," I`ll get there. I`m wanting to be president because I really believe that I can provide the best and most clear leadership this country needs.

BECK: Ten seconds. Leave America with one thing you want them to know about you.

HUCKABEE: That I am who I am today, and it`s the same person I was a year ago, 10 years ago, and the same person I`m going to be 20 years from now. My convictions are what they are, and they`re based on some deep, hard, core principles, and I think that matters, authenticity and consistency.

BECK: Governor Mike Huckabee, what a pleasure, sir.

HUCKABEE: Great to be with you.

BECK: Thank you.

America, good night.