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Glenn Beck

Prof Offers Extra Credit to Burn Flag; Driver`s Licenses for Illegals Could be Elected Issue; Is Death Penalty a Deterrent?; Pakistan in Fourth Day of Crackdown

Aired November 06, 2007 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, HOST (voice-over): Coming up tonight, outrage in America. Can we finally drive a stake through plans to give driver`s licenses to illegal aliens?

Plus, the debate over the death penalty reignites as a suspected cop- killer finally brought to justice in Miami.

And with one year to go before the `08 elections, we`ll look at the contenders and the pretenders on both sides of the aisle.

All of this and more tonight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SMERCONISH: Hi. I`m Michael Smerconish from Philly. Glenn is out sick tonight.

Over the last few months we`ve heard plenty of examples proving how our colleges and universities are more interested in indoctrination than they are in education. From Ahmadinejad at Columbia to disgrace, disbarred conviction felon, former attorney Lynne Stewart speaking at a Hofstra (ph) ethics conference, all common sense on campus has apparently vanished.

So it was through that prism that I read a story about a professor at the University of Maine offering extra credit for burning the American flag or a copy of the U.S. Constitution. Here we go again, I thought.

But then I took the time to read the whole story and actually listened to the professor`s side of it. And that`s when something strange happened. I found myself actually understanding him, if not agreeing with him. The point was not to literally go out and burn a flag. The professor, along with other students, say that was not a serious assignment. The point was to underscore just how far our First Amendment really goes.

After all, our freedoms aren`t tested in times of tranquility. They`re only truly tested when we`re confronted with a vicious assault on our core beliefs, an assault so heinous that we start thinking about the Second Amendment, as well as the first.

In this case, perhaps the University of Maine professor himself summed up this debate the best when he said, quote, "If they don`t tolerate thought that they hate, they don`t believe in the First Amendment." And maybe, if we don`t tolerate radical ideas on campus once in a while, then we don`t really believe in it either.

Morton Blackwell disagrees. He`s president of the Leadership Institute.

Welcome back to the program. Tell me what`s your understanding of the factual predicate here? In other words, what is it that was said by the professor on that first day of class?

MORTON BLACKWELL, PRESIDENT, LEADERSHIP INSTITUTE: Well, the professor in his first day of class made it very clear to the class that he was a left-winger. He was talking about that we don`t really have freedoms of free speech in this country, because the Republican administration had destroyed most of it.

And then he offered, in a way that was taken by people there as serious, that you get extra credit if you burn the American flag, if you burn the U.S. Constitution, or you get arrested by police in a demonstration.

And -- and one of the students there was considerably upset by that. She went out and dropped the class. And then later was, on the 1st of October, found by one of the Leadership Institute`s 70 field staff that we sent out this fall, to organize independent conservative groups, and she asked for help in organizing a student group.

There was a big story about this in the "Bangor News," which has a Web site where you can comment on it. And as of this morning, there were 47 comments that had been put on their Web site, including one from a student who took this same course from this same professor earlier. And she says that he said exactly the same thing and was taken seriously by the students then.

SMERCONISH: Morton, I don`t know if you can see me through the monitor.

BLACKWELL: Sure.

SMERCONISH: But I`m nobody`s definition of a hippy. And yet I`ve always been struck by the thought that men died for the right to do goofy things in this country in terms of free speech, including, perhaps, to burn the American flag.

I don`t condone flag-burning. But it occurs to me this entire process has been a good learning experience for all of these students.

BLACKWELL: Well, it may be a good learning experience for the taxpayers of Maine. Do they really want to be paying the salary of a professor who offers students extra credit if they will publicly burn the American flag or burn a copy of the U.S. Constitution? There are lots of things that legal that are foolish and wrong.

SMERCONISH: It reminds me of the controversy recently concerning Barack Obama and him saying that he was no longer comfortable wearing an American flag on his lapel. And he thought that that was -- and I`m paraphrasing, but a sense of false patriotism, that he`d rather prove his patriotism through means other than just displaying the flag.

What was your take on that spat?

BLACKWELL: Well, it didn`t seem to me that Barack Obama was encouraging people to go out and burn the American flag.

There is a serious problem on America`s college campuses today. Overwhelmingly leftist faculty, overwhelmingly leftist administration, overwhelmingly leftist official school newspapers and on and on.

I have a -- a list of 27 abuses that the left does on campuses called "How Low can Higher Education Go?" Anybody wishing to see that could go to the Leadership Institute Web site, LeadershipInstitute.org, and you can read off these 27 abuses.

SMERCONISH: The...

BLACKWELL: It`s really a serious thing, because campuses -- many campuses today are truly designed by those who control them to be left-wing indoctrination centers.

SMERCONISH: Listen, I -- I don`t deny what you say, sir. When I went to law school at the University of Pennsylvania and spoke in support of the death penalty, the professor and my classmates, they hissed at me. So I know well of what you`re speaking.

I just think in this particular case, maybe the professor was correct when he said, "I applaud the student`s exercise of free expression. If she`d stayed in the class, I would have given her extra credit for publicizing her opinions."

You get the final quick word.

BLACKWELL: Well, that`s what -- that`s what he says when he gets nationwide publicity for what he said. I don`t know any evidence that he has done this in the past. The man seems to me to be a typical left-wing professor.

SMERCONISH: Morton, thanks for being here. We appreciate it.

And now from the First Amendment to the 15th, the 19th and the 26th. What, you don`t know those by heart? Well, they`re all about today, election day. And although we may not be voting for president, there are many important local issues that still need to be addressed.

For example, here in New York, voters will be electing county clerks and supervisors who may have an impact on Governor Eliot Spitzer`s plan to give driver`s licenses to illegal aliens.

Remember, at least one county clerk has come on this program, Glenn`s show, to say they`ll refuse to issue the licenses, should the plan become law. So could others follow suit? And how close is this plan to becoming law?

Ira Mehlman is the media director for the Federation for American Immigration Reform.

Is this going to be the be-all and end-all issue, Ira, for those local elections, this plan that tripped up Hillary in the recent Democratic debate?

IRA MEHLMAN, MEDIA DIRECTOR, FEDERATION FOR AMERICAN IMMIGRATION REFORM: Well, this certainly is really a hot-wire issue in New York. As you pointed out, not only have the county clerks come out in opposition to it, 72 percent of the voters have made it very clear to the politicians in New York that they are opposed to it. And when you have 72 percent of the voters agreeing on anything, that sends a very clear message to the politicians.

And you see that in the fact that many of the legislators in New York, including many Democrats, have distanced themselves from Eliot Spitzer on this issue. Even Hillary Clinton has tried to dance around it, not all that successfully. But even she didn`t want to touch this one.

SMERCONISH: Ira, the concern that I have, and I`m on your side on this issue, is that the driver`s license is your -- your pass jail card in this country. It is your admission ticket everywhere.

I couldn`t get into the CNN building in order to do Glenn`s program today without showing a driver`s license. So to those who might say, "Well, we need to somehow give a certain level of protection even to illegals," I`m concerned that you are opening up the universe to all access of our society by issuing that driver`s license.

MEHLMAN: Exactly. The driver`s license is the de facto identity document that we all use to prove who we are. And just to show you how important it was, those 19 terrorists who hijacked those planes on September 11 and killed a lot of New Yorkers, by the way, they all had driver`s licenses.

And they didn`t do this because they enjoyed spending time at the DMV. There are no 72 virgins that you get for spending time at the DMV. They did it because they understand that it`s important to have this document, that it is your ticket here. It makes you invisible.

And ultimately, on the morning of September 11, they used those documents to board those planes that they turned into weapons of mass destruction.

SMERCONISH: Allow me to just play contrarian, at least for the sake of this argument. Someone who is not afforded a driver`s license because they are here illegally may choose, nevertheless, to continue to drive. And perhaps we`d be bringing them out of the shadows if we brought them into that system and made sure that they at least could at least operate a motor vehicle.

MEHLMAN: Well, you know, this accommodation of illegal immigration is why we have so many illegal immigrants living in the United States. Now more than 13 million people living here illegally.

If you want to enforce road safety in New York or anyplace else, what you do is make it clear to people that, if you get caught driving without a license, there are going to be consequences. If we catch you, we`re going to impound your vehicle. If we believe you`re in the country illegally, we`re going to pick up the phone and call the immigration authorities. That`s the way you enforce the law.

You don`t enforce the law by simply saying, "Well, people are driving without licenses. Let`s just give them licenses."

There are other considerations, and we shouldn`t be putting these documents into the hands of potential terrorists simply because they`ve proved to us that they know how to parallel park.

SMERCONISH: Ira, I wish that someone with resources would look at the incidence rate of traffic fatalities that are brought on by illegals. Because all that I can offer is anecdotal information. But not a week passes that, from my small perch in Philadelphia, I don`t see some public news account of an illegal alien who has killed somebody in a motor vehicle.

MEHLMAN: That`s absolutely right. And simply giving somebody a driver`s license doesn`t mean that they`re not going to go out there drive drunk the way many of these people have been and killing people along the way.

But again, you have to make it clear that there are going to be serious consequences. The reason you have so many illegal aliens driving without licenses now is because they know in most cases, if they get stopped, local authorities will just pat them on their head and send them along the way.

They won`t pick up the phone and call the immigration service and say, "Get this guy out of here."

SMERCONISH: It`s -- so it`s just -- it`s ironic. There`s a 19-year- old -- we have a 19-year-old daughter and a letter just came from the commonwealth of Pennsylvania saying, "We`re going to revoke your lice finance we don`t get your Social Security number." Somehow, in their system, they didn`t have it.

And I`m looking at this notice, and I`m thinking, "Hey, she`s here legitimately. What are you doing for the illegals?"

Ira, thanks. I really appreciate it.

And coming up, a nationwide manhunt ends as a suspected cop-killer is finally nabbed. How this man`s capture has reinvigorated the death penalty debate.

And behind the curtain with David Copperfield. A new report shows how the magician allegedly lures female audience members backstage. You don`t want to miss that story.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMERCONISH: Coming up in just a bit, a push to remove Vice President Cheney from office. A waste of time or the aliens controlling Dennis Kucinich? He`s, after all, the guy who claims to have seen a UFO.

You know, back in my hometown of Philadelphia, the largest manhunt in city history ended this morning. The hunted, John Lewis, a 21-year-old man who allegedly shot and killed a police officer in a coffee shop last week.

I have to wonder what we`ll do now that this guy has been caught, because Lewis` alleged act of murder came just one day after another Philly cop-killer was sentenced to life in prison and not to death. These days, the death penalty exists, it seems, in name only. And Death Row, a misnomer if there ever has been one, has become something akin to a movie set.

Typical is the 20-year case in Mississippi, where the Supreme Court stayed the execution of Earl Wesley Berry, 19 minutes before he was scheduled to die. Berry confessed to beating a woman to death in the Mississippi woods in 1987. Still flailing 20 years later, his lawyers petitioned the U.S. Supreme Court, based on the assertion that lethal injection was a cruel and unusual method of death.

That strategy emerged when the Supreme Court chose to decide a Kentucky challenge on the constitutionality of lethal injections in September. The result has been a de facto moratorium on executions. All this despite new evidence of capital punishment`s strongest argument: deterrence.

A study from Pepperdine University shows that, for every execution carried out in a particular year, there were 74 fewer murders the following year.

Joining me now is Marquette professor John McAdams and Mike Farrell, president of Death Penalty Watch.

Mr. Farrell, did you see the study to which I`ve just referred, sir, in the "Wall Street Journal" that was published last Friday. And it concluded that, with each execution carried out, it`s correlated with about 74 fewer murders the following year.

MIKE FARRELL, PRESIDENT, DEATH PENALTY FOCUS: Yes, Michael, I did see it. It`s Death Penalty focus, by the way.

And the study has -- was based on information that`s been around for a long time and has been refuted and disputed by sociologists and people that study these sorts of things. So it`s a claim. It`s a typical claim. It comes up periodically, and it`s been refuted generally.

SMERCONISH: Well, it`s just hard data that lays on a graph. The number of executions over -- over the number of murders.

FARRELL: As is always the case, this hard data is analyzed by people who have a bias one way or another. The idea that the death penalty is a deterrent has been disputed over the years, and it has never been proven satisfactorily, one way or the other.

SMERCONISH: Would it make a difference to you, Mr. Farrell? In other words, if you could -- if you could look at data that would convince you that, indeed, it is a deterrent, would that be enough, in and of itself, to convince you that your death penalty position is the wrong position?

FARRELL: No, because life in prison without the possibility of parole has an equal deterrent quality to -- as does the death penalty. And, in that, we don`t have to stoop to the level of the perpetrator of a violent crime.

SMERCONISH: Mr. McAdams, I take it you`re familiar with this data. What reaction do you have, sir?

JOHN MCADAMS, MARQUETTE UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR: This is just the last of a long series of studies showing the current effect of the death penalty. The number 74 is high compared to other studies. Other studies typically show that each execution saves perhaps four to 18 innocent lives.

And yes, the death penalty does have a deterrent effect on -- greater than life -- life imprisonment. And these are studies published in peer- reviewed economics journals. It`s good social science.

But I think the burden of proof on this lies with death penalty opponents. As long as there is a good possibility that the death penalty deters, failing to execute murderers is a form of reckless endangerment.

SMERCONISH: But Mr. Farrell, I think, just told us, and I don`t want to mischaracterize what he said -- that frankly, it doesn`t matter to him. Even if it`s shown to be a deterrent, he still wouldn`t change his opinion, vis-a-vis the death penalty.

MCADAMS: That`s saying you would rather have innocent people killed than execute people. I find that rather alarming.

FARRELL: That`s if the gentleman is correct and the studies by Jeff Kragen (ph) at UCLA and studies by Michael Radel (ph) at the University of Colorado and any number of studies clearly point out that this information that this gentleman is trying to pedal here is incorrect.

SMERCONISH: Mr. Farrell, just so you know...

FARRELL: Forgive me. All we have to do is look at the south, where most of the executions take place. And look at the level of violence and the level of murders in the south and see if, in fact, you can demonstrate that the death penalty has been a deterrent.

Look at the -- look at the comparison between states that have a death penalty and states that do not. Look at Canada.

SMERCONISH: Hang on, Mr. McAdams. I want to respond to this.

FARRELL: Look at Canada, where they did away with the death penalty and murders did -- not only did not rise, they fell.

SMERCONISH: Well...

FARRELL: Look at the -- look at the rest of the developed world and realize that the death penalty does not serve us in terms of any kind of social safety. It does not serve us socially. It does not help us in any way.

Life in prison without the possibility of parole does, in fact, help us in terms of social safety.

SMERCONISH: Mr. Farrell, respectfully, I know it deters at least one person at a time.

FARRELL: Well, of course it does.

SMERCONISH: And I think you`re -- I think your insinuation...

FARRELL: Whether that person is innocent or not.

SMERCONISH: But I think that your insinuation, relative to the men who published this Pepperdine study is inaccurate, because...

FARRELL: No, it`s not.

SMERCONISH: Let me finish, if I may, and then I`ll back off and give you the floor. Unlike you, I`ve interviewed one of these men. Because I wanted to know what did he bring to the table in terms of baggage being predisposed, vis-a-vis, one way or the other and he assured absolutely not. All he did was crunch the numbers.

And the argument that they make is that you`re doing a disservice by not carrying out a death sentence to the 74 people who will die next year because you haven`t done so.

Now you have the floor.

FARRELL: Thank you very much. If you talk to Jeff Fagan at UCLA, you`ll find a different result from the right numbers being crunched. This is -- this is a -- simply a fake argument, and it`s not one that serves us.

If we`re worried about social safety, which I think we are all, if we`re worried about finding a way to resolve the problems that are -- that result in violent crime, then I think we need to do a little deeper work in our society than simply saying all we have to do is kill people.

If you look at the population of Death Row, you`ll find that it is racially unbalanced, that it`s only biased -- it`s only used against the poor, that it is filled with people who are -- their guilt is in question. We know we have 124 people who have been freed from Death Row.

MCADAMS: That`s a bogus number. That`s a bogus number.

SMERCONISH: Gentlemen, I wish we had more time. Mr. Farrell, you -- Mr. Farrell, you and I are going to continue this dialogue, I assure you, at a future date.

FARRELL: I`m sure we will.

SMERCONISH: Thank you both for being here.

FARRELL: You`re welcome.

SMERCONISH: Thank you, men.

Then coming up, Pakistan in a state of emergency. You know things are bad when even the lawyers get violent. I`ll tell you how all of this is going to impact our war on terror.

And a new report says that magician David Copperfield uses dirty tricks to separate attractive female audience members from their husbands and boyfriends. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMERCONISH: We`re now three days into the state of emergency declared by President Musharraf in Pakistan, and things seem to only be getting worse. Today, police used batons to fight back attorneys demonstrating outside courthouses in two cities, and the Supreme Court justice whose firing started the crackdown told followers to, quote, "go to every corner of Pakistan and give the message that this is the time to sacrifice."

What does that statement really mean and how much trouble is Musharraf really in?

Peter Brooks is a senior fellow for national security affairs at the Heritage Foundation.

Peter, I`ve been banging this drum for a long, long time. That while the administration`s attention has been on Iraq and more recently on Iran, Pakistan is the real potential powder keg in the Middle East. How do you see it?

PETER BROOKS, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Yes, it certainly is. It`s a country in peril. It`s been walking the knife`s edge for quite some time. And Musharraf certainly hasn`t helped things with his most recent actions.

I mean, Michael, you can`t ignore what`s going on in Iran and Iraq and Afghanistan, but you`re right: Pakistan is right up there. In fact, some have said it`s the most dangerous country in the world today.

SMERCONISH: And our -- our aid, according to the data I`ve been supplied, $10 billion since September 11. What return are we getting for all that money?

BROOKS: Well, you know, Musharraf would tell you that he`s -- he`s captured or killed as many as 700 al Qaeda types. They have had some success against the Taliban. Not exactly what we would like to see.

But also, Pakistan is a very impoverished country, and we`ve tried to put money into development there and education so that we have fewer jihadists coming out of there.

Right now we`ve got some real problems with the Taliban in the border areas and also al Qaeda in Pakistan. In fact, Michael, it`s believed as early as this year the intelligence community believes that Osama bin Laden and Ayman Zawahiri, his deputy, were actually on the Pakistani side of the border.

SMERCONISH: Yes. But we`ve outsourced the responsibility for finding them, to the extent they`re there, to Musharraf`s regime, and he`s reached this accord with the tribal leaders where he says, "Hey, I`m not going to screw with you. Don`t screw with me."

BROOKS: Well, that agreement has been a failure. I agree with that. But don`t think we`ve completely outsourced this. Just last October, the United States took a shot at Zawahiri. We thought we got him. He was supposed to be at a dinner in the tribal areas. We missed him by a couple of hours.

But there have been some actions by us. We`re working closely with the Pakistanis to the extent that we can to try to get these guys. It`s not totally -- we don`t have -- we don`t have many troops on the ground. We may have some Special Operations types, but we haven`t completely outsourced it.

SMERCONISH: All right. Question for you, given your expertise. I know what the president is saying publicly. I know what Condoleezza Rice is saying publicly. What do you think they`re saying, back channels to General Musharraf?

BROOKS: Well, you know, that`s the really important thing. I mean, they have to take some sort of stance. I think the president has been right in what he said. We`re reviewing aid. You know, right now he`s the best bet we`ve got to fight terrorism in Pakistan.

It`s not a good choice. He`s not a perfect ally, but he`s the only ally we`ve got for the moment. And he`s climbed up a tree, and we`re going to try to help him get right -- get down that tree, but that`s going to be difficult.

I think there`s a lot of private diplomacy going on, trying to help him move away from where he`s at. He`s probably going to have to step down. We want to see free elections in January of next year for the parliament, but it`s a very, very difficult situation. Mike, we may be right. Things may get worse they get worse.

SMERCONISH: And finally, Peter, that which separates Iraq and Iran from Pakistan, I guess, among other things is they have. They possess the nuclear capability.

What is known relative to the capability of the nuclear weapon today? Has it been disseminated throughout the country? You know, is it a situation where radical Islamists could take over and all of a sudden simply push a button? I mean, I`m being simplistic, but in what state of preparedness are they to fire a nuclear weapon, if we know?

BROOKS: Well, I mean, the nuclear weapons are supposed to be under control of the military. And you know, we`ve got assurances about this. You know, you can never really be sure.

The nightmare scenario is that this government would fall to the extremists and to the radicals, but the fact is, that they`re saying it`s under the control of the military.

SMERCONISH: Thank you, Peter.

We`re back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMERCONISH: Coming up in just a bit, allegations that magic man David Copperfield uses his assistants to magically move pretty women from his audience into his dressing room.

But first, happy Election Day. If you didn`t make it to the polls today, you weren`t alone. In New York, poll workers outnumbered voters. In Fort Worth, authorities are now investigating who distributed an official flier, conveniently printed in both English and Spanish, instructing residents that voting day is Saturday.

And in Kentucky, with the gubernatorial race has been a contentious one, voters were actually encouraged to go to the polls by an automated voicemail declaring the Democrat candidate`s link to the homosexual lobby. You`ve got to love democracy.

Local politics aside, today does officially mark the one-year point before ballots are cast for the 44th president of the United States, thus ending the longest presidential campaign in the history of the free world.

Lots of politics to talk about. Joining me to discuss everything from Congress to the presidential campaign, Democratic strategist Peter Fenn and CNN political analyst Amy Holmes.

Amy, I want to start with Fred Thompson. Evidently while waiting for an interview with FOX News, he made an off-air remark that suggests his heart is not exactly in this race. The reporter evidently said, the next president of the United States has a schedule to keep and Thompson quipped, and so do I.

What the heck happened to this guy?

AMY HOLMES, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you know, in fairness to Fred Thompson, I think he was just making an off-the-cuff self-deprecating joke that was just meant to get a laugh. Unfortunately when it comes to being president, it gets a groan. The good news for Thompson, he`s number two solidly in the national polls. But the bad news is he`s fifth in New Hampshire, fourth in Iowa. And with remarks like this, it doesn`t inspire confidence.

SMERCONISH: Peter Fenn, is there any there there?

PETER FENN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I`ll tell you, I think the problem with Fred Thompson is that the engagement was very, very long and the honeymoon is over, and it didn`t go well. And I think Amy is absolutely right. He`s by virtue of name recognition up there in the national polls, but when it comes to organization and money and on-the-ground support in those early primary states, he`s severely lacking.

SMERCONISH: Yes, it would seem, Amy, as if, you know, timing is everything in this race. And for so long, he was courted and playing that usual game of people have asked me to look at it, people have asked me to run. And by the time he finally got into it, I think we`d heard enough.

HOLMES: Well, and we also know that he announced that he was going to be running a virtual campaign. What he needs is a reality campaign and that is being on the ground. He has only been to New Hampshire three times. And Iowa, apparently, he`s not whipping up the crowds into, like, you know, a happy frenzy for his candidacy. If he really has a fire in the belly for this, he needs to go for it right now.

But you know what, Michael, we`ve been down this road with Fred Thompson before. Months ago I predicted that he had done this with the China hearings back in -- investigated in `96, contributions to the Clinton campaign. There was a lot of hoopla and hoorah that Fred Thompson would be leading this tough investigation. And then it turned into a big nothing sandwich. It was such a disappointment for Republicans. I had some fear that he was going to do it all over again.

SMERCONISH: He helped us get that sub in the "Hunt for Red October." So the resume is not a blank slate.

Peter, let me ask you, what are the political ramifications on a presidential level, if any, of Michael Mukasey getting voted out of committee today?

FENN: Well, I think this is going to put that issue behind both the Republicans and the Democrats. It clearly is a victory for President Bush right now. And he needs some victories. You know, I think that folks decide that that`s attorney general`s office was so important that they had to get somebody in there that the Justice Department people are leaving it, not only the political appointees, but the good solid folks that have been there for years, the career people.

And, you know, look. Chuck Schumer said that this guy should be in the Supreme Court as well as nominating him for attorney general.

SMERCONISH: But what accounts for this apparent about-face and that of Senator Dianne Feinstein?

FENN: Well, I think -- first of all, I think Schumer decided, look, you know, he has given me private assurances on waterboarding, on torture. If we put forth clear legislation on this, he`s going to abide by it. If the president of the United States doesn`t agree with it, then he`ll quit.

I mean, he was very blunt about this. I think they -- you know, the bottom line, Michael, I think they trust this guy. I think that they think he has integrity, they think he`s smart, they think he`ll do a good job in the Justice Department.

SMERCONISH: Amy, what is your take on Feinstein and Schumer relative to Mukasey?

HOLMES: Well, sure, Feinstein pointed out herself that the president does have the power to make a recess appointment. So the Democrats are better off going with this candidate, this confirmation that President Bush has put before them and for all the reasons that Peter just said, instead of risking a recess appointment with someone who could be more conservative or less palatable to the Democratic-controlled Senate.

You know, I worked in the Senate for three years for Senator Frist when he was majority leader. And Chuck Schumer was the lead attack dog on the judicial confirmation process. The fact that he`s willing to work in a bipartisan and collegial way to get this guy through, I think speaks a lot.

I think it speaks a lot that senators, the Democrats are looking at the polls and seeing that Congress has the lowest approval ratings ever, that they are lower than President Bush at this point. The American people are fed up with partisan bickering and, as Peter said, we need to have the Department of Justice led, led ably, and Mukasey is the guy to do it.

SMERCONISH: I wish that someone would finally on a national platform say waterboarding, it must work, because if it didn`t work, there wouldn`t continually be this debate about using it. I mean, somebody must think it works or we shouldn`t constantly have to cover this bridge. Maybe I did just say it.

HOLMES: Well, Michael, our U.S. military has outlawed the use of waterboarding. Now it`s up to a Democratic-controlled Senate to actually pass that law. They haven`t done so, but as Peter mentioned, this attorney general nominee said that he would definitely enforce the law if the Senate chose to pass it.

SMERCONISH: Amy and Peter, stick around, we`ll be back in just 60 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMERCONISH: I`m Michael Smerconish, filling in for Glenn Beck today. We`ve got a year to go before we cast our votes for the next leader of the free world. It seems like a good time to talk politics. Democratic strategist Peter Fenn and CNN political analyst Amy Holmes are back with me to continue our conversation.

Amy, Dennis Kucinich, now calling for Dick Cheney to be impeached. Why is Kucinich in the debates if Stephen Colbert is not?

HOLMES: That`s a very good question. Why is he up there at all? I think he is there to -- I think he believes in his issues passionately. I think he`s there to raise his name ID, raise money for his own congressional races when he needs to be up on the ballot a year from now.

But, you know, this is tilting at windmills. There`s going to be no impeachment. Nancy Pelosi said that that is not on the table. When Democrats took over Congress this last November they said that there was no way we`re going down this road. And the American people simply wouldn`t have it.

SMERCONISH: Peter, Ron Paul raising a boatload of cash via the Internet. Where does that come from?

FENN: It`s unbelievable, isn`t it? I mean, basically, what he has done, I think, has been the one candidate out there on the Republican side who is drawing high levels of interest. The polls show that most of the Republican voters out there are dissatisfied with the field. And here`s a guy that`s creating some sparks.

And part of it, I think, is his anti-war stance. Part of it is his sort of isolationist foreign policy. You know, our good friend Pat Buchanan was able to do the same kind of thing through a couple of presidential campaigns. And this guy is not going to win, but he sure has pulled in huge amounts of cash off the Internet.

SMERCONISH: Yes, I keep wondering, is there anything that`s sort of specific to the Paul candidacy or is this the scene in "Network," I`m mad as hell and I`m not going to take it anymore?

FENN: Look, part of it, I`m a straight shooter. I`m a straight talker. I`m going to tell it like it is. And you know, that`s getting there. I mean, you just asked about Kucinich. Kucinich hasn`t raised the kind of money that Paul has, but some people say, look, the guy gets up and tells it like it is. He`s a straight shooter.

But you know, whether it`s Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich or Tom Tancredo, these folks are in a sense sidelines, you know?

SMERCONISH: Amy, you want in on Ron Paul?

HOLMES: Well, yes, they are a sideline. But, you know, there is definitely a market amongst American voters. Remember Ralph Nader back in 2000 got 2 percent of the vote. And, Peter, you`re groaning. He`s the reason why we have George Bush and not Al Gore. There`s always going to be an element of the voting public that wants to hear an undiluted, uncompromising message.

Unfortunately, that`s not politics. That`s not where you win a presidency, win the middle, win all those independent voters.

SMERCONISH: Right, that. And, Amy, now you`ve framed my question, which is, you know, is the Nader voter of a bygone era the Paul voter and supporter of today? Is it just a vote of antagonism toward the establishment, loosely defined?

HOLMES: Well, that would be presuming that there was ever an era where these candidates could win. And I don`t think there is. But you know, hey, this is a great beauty of democracy, is that these people can come forward, raise money...

SMERCONISH: Oh, hey, he is keeping it interesting.

HOLMES: Keeping it interesting. I love seeing those Ron Paul voters at all the Republican debates with their signs, they`re terrific.

SMERCONISH: Let Colbert get in, that is what I say.

FENN: And let Colbert in, right.

(CROSSTALK)

FENN: . lost 10 votes, he couldn`t get 10 votes out of South Carolina...

(CROSSTALK)

SMERCONISH: Thank you both, appreciate it very much.

Hey, by the way, just a quick reminder that Glenn`s new book, "An Inconvenient Book: Real Solutions to the World`s Biggest Problems," is coming out soon. I know he`s humble about it, but in 300 pages, he solves everything from global warming to peak oil to illegal immigration. It`s pretty amazing. That`s "An Inconvenient Book." You can preorder is right now at glennbeck.com.

When we come back, how magician David Copperfield allegedly lures attractive women backstage. Here`s a hint. It`s not with the duck trick.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMERCONISH: While the investigation into allegations of sexual assault against magician David Copperfield continues, new documents obtained by entertainment and celebrity gossip site TMZ suggest -- well, they suggest that he`s a pretty creepy guy, maybe, allegedly, reportedly.

It seems that the same guy who made Lady Liberty disappear in front of thousands has done his best to make lots of ladies disappear from their spouses and boyfriends using his magician`s assistants as wingmen.

Armed with clipboards and special meet-and-greet show participation documents, the assistants were apparently asked to locate attractive female audience members that Copperfield would then meet backstage after his performances.

Questionnaires included things like, what hotel are you staying at? And, how long are you in town? Joining me now to discuss more of the gory details, Star magazine`s editor-at-large, Julia Allison.

Julia, the paperwork is unbelievable. Listen to this. "As soon as the show ends, make sure to go directly to the seats of everyone that needs to stay for meet and greet. Tell them to remain in their seats and make sure to keep an eye on any of the meet and greet guests that we think have potential for future projects." Does that future project involve his magic wand, perhaps?

JULIA ALLISON, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, STAR MAGAZINE: Ha ha! I like -- I like that euphemism. Yes. If a project is going to the Bahamas and having sex with him. Look, at best he`s skeezy. At worst, he`s criminal. I think that this is just disgusting.

SMERCONISH: Listen, I always thought that Claudia Schiffer was a beard, not that there`s anything wrong with it. I thought that the guy -- you know.

ALLISON: I thought Claudia Schiffer was misguided. But I didn`t know that she was with a total womanizer. And I think that these -- you know, boy, most times when you have a guy like this, a total -- an absolute, I would say, almost, you know, pathological womanizer, you usually don`t have proof of it, right? So this is pretty unique.

And I think that the allegations of rape, whether they are true or not -- you know, even if they`re not true, you know that this guy is a jerk.

SMERCONISH: Listen to this one. "From time to time, boyfriends and husbands will give us a hard time and refuse to stay. If that is the case, try your best to get them to stay and refer to the `what to say` sheet for help. If your actions don`t work, then let them go. We can`t force them to stay."

I`d love to see the "what to say" talking points. This guy is like a political candidate.

ALLISON: I know. Right. Exactly. I can just imagine, you know, them talking to the boyfriends and husbands. Oh, David isn`t going to try to molest your girlfriend, today. He`ll wait until next week. It`s just - - it`s gross. And I think it`s going to have a real effect on his career.

Can you imagine what woman would want to go to his shows now? I mean, like no woman would. And no mother would want to take her kids there.

SMERCONISH: I have always said to our kids, beware of magicians and clowns.

ALLISON: No, you haven`t.

SMERCONISH: Yes, I have.

ALLISON: Really?

SMERCONISH: Oh, yes, yes. Any guy with face paint is something to be fearful of. Didn`t you see "Silence of the Lambs"?

ALLISON: I did, yes. But you think -- David Copperfield has a pretty -- I would think he`s a pretty benign -- prior to this at least, a pretty benign public persona. So this is -- I think this is fairly shocking, especially given that allegations of him being, you know, a womanizer go back to 1985.

There were various reports from men who came forward and said he tried to take my girlfriend back in the `80s. So it`s really shocking that this is only coming out now. And I think one of the reasons for that is that we see that the employees had to sign non-disclosure agreements.

SMERCONISH: Of course, now listen...

ALLISON: And his lawyer actually sent threatening letters to the employees reminding them of that.

SMERCONISH: Nothing new about a casting couch. You just don`t expect some guy to pull it out of the hat.

ALLISON: Right, exactly.

SMERCONISH: Thank you, Julia.

ALLISON: Thank you.

SMERCONISH: Now it`s time for tonight`s "Real America," brought to you this evening by CSX. It`s not often that you find a place where the sole mission is to give people a second chance in life. That`s the goal of Project Renewal. And tonight we take an inside look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Hidden in the basement of a New York City building lies a commercial kitchen. Chef Anthony O`Connor is in charge here. He teaches students how to cook, how to serve, and most importantly, how to believe in themselves.

ANTHONY O`CONNOR, TEACHER & CHEF, PROJECT RENEWAL: They`re with me for 12 weeks. When they finish with me, they go on to an internship for 12 weeks to the various corporate dining rooms in the city.

We do something called a job search where we help them try to find a job. You know, a lot of them are actually hired on the internship.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The idea of getting an actual job is a first for many of the students here at Project Renewal. You see, most of them are used to getting tossed aside, called worthless. But here you`re more likely to see guys tossing peppers.

ELI MURRAY, STUDENT, PROJECT RENEWAL: You`re going to end up in two places, you know what I mean? Either dead or in jail. And then on top of that, like, it`s just not the same, like how it used to be. You know what I mean? Like, you watch movies like "American Gangster" that just recently came down. Like no one is making $250 million off of the streets no more. Like that idea is played out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Project Renewal idea is pretty simple. Give people a second chance. Students get into the free program after they`ve gone through rehab or many times when they get out of jail. That`s how Andre landed here. Today, he`s a success story. He completed the cooking program and now works as a prep cook for his internship.

He came back to talk to the new crop of students.

ANDRE CHANEYFIELD, GRADUATE, PROJECT RENEWAL: You know, while you`re running the street, selling drugs, robbing, doing anything to get money. Eventually, you know, I`m 29 years old and I`ve been doing it for a long time. And I -- it just hit me like, I`m getting older, not younger. And I don`t want to do this the rest of my life. So, you know, what do I have to fall back on? So I have to do something with my life. You know?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that`s exactly what Andre is doing. Today, he`s taking time out from his internship and giving hope to the future graduates of the program.

MURRAY: You know, if you just take a look at him, and I know that he`s from my environment. He`s a prime example. And I hope I can follow his example and kind of prove to everybody that those things are true.

CHANEYFIELD: I never thought I would be a role model. Never. When I wake up in the morning, it`s like I got something to look forward to. I`ve got a career. I know it`s hard work, but I like doing it. And I look forward to doing it. And it`s like, I just thank God for it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It turns out at Project Renewal, that simple old adage still holds true. Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you just may feed him for life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SMERCONISH: Tonight`s "Real America" sponsored by CSX. how tomorrow moves.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMERCONISH: Have you ever spent days looking for something, given up and assumed that it`s lost forever? That`s exactly what Aubrey Kyle thought when a gift from his girlfriend slipped from his pocket near Okinawa at the end of World War II. Well, after six decades and a little luck, that lost gift has found him.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AUBREY KYLE, WWII VETERAN: There it goes.

CORNELL BARNARD, NEWS10 REPORTER (voice-over): Eighty-one-year-old Aubrey Kyle says if his long-lost lighter could talk, it would have a big story to tell.

A. KYLE: The war was over and we were going home. There were a lot of things to be jolly about..

BARNARD: At the end of World War II, he was stationed aboard a U.S. supply ship near Okinawa. The silver cigarette lighter, a good-bye gift from his girlfriend, Emogene, now Aubrey`s wife of 60 years.

A. KYLE: But I never thought that this much attention would be brought to this little lighter.

BARNARD: That lighter accidentally fell overboard when it slipped from Aubrey`s uniform pocket aboard the USS Black Hawk.

A. KYLE: My lighter is gone and I thought no more about it. It`s gone. It`s at the bottom of the ocean. Nothing I can do about it. So I forgot.

BARNARD (on camera): What Aubrey didn`t know is that lighter didn`t fall into the ocean at all. It actually fell into a life boat on the side of the ship. And it would take six decades for that lighter to find its way home.

A. KYLE: This is him right here.

BARNARD (voice-over): Fellow sailor Russell Weindress (ph) found the lighter engraved with Aubrey`s name and tried for years to locate him after the war. His son recently posted a picture of the lighter online trying to find its owner. Aubrey Kyle`s daughter saw it, got it back, and gave it to dad as a gift.

A. KYLE: When they handed me the lighter, there it was. My gosh, 62 years at that time it had been gone. And to show up when all the time I kept saying that there was no way we were going to find that lighter. No way. It`s gone. But here it is. There you go. Lighter. Then you hook your finger around there like that. Push it down and you`re all ready for another cigarette.

BARNARD: Aubrey stopped smoking in 1978, and Emogene says he had better not start now or else the lighter will be gone for good.

EMOGENE KYLE, WIFE: I would throw the thing away. I`d go down to the ocean or get somebody to take me to the ocean and toss it in there. It would never come up again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SMERCONISH: What a great story. If that`s not amazing, I don`t know what is.

Well, that`s all for tonight. Thanks for watching. Glenn Beck back tomorrow night. I`m Michael Smerconish from Philly. Good night, everybody.

END