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Glenn Beck

No Clear Winners after Super Tuesday; Chuck Norris Goes to the Mat for Huckabee; "Survivor" Host Dishes on New Season

Aired February 06, 2008 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GLENN BECK, HOST (voice-over): Tonight from Super Tuesday to Wishy- Washy Wednesday. No clear victor for either party, but Obama appears to be grabbing an edge over Hillary.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, we can. Yes, we can.

BECK: Plus, Mary Matalin. The dean of GOP strategist breaks down the Republican side for us. Is McCain a lock or can the underdogs bite back?

And the muscle behind Mike Huckabee, legendary actor and bad guy, butt kicker Chuck Norris hit the road with Huck.

All this and more tonight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BECK: Hello, America. I`m a little nervous because I hear Chuck Norris is a little angry. I`m just saying, he might kick my butt tonight. We broadcast live all last night. I ended up eating an entire chocolate binge cake. Because Mitt Romney, he`s not going to make it, is he? Super Tuesday has come and gone, so tonight, here`s "The Point."

Believe it or not, the fat lady hasn`t sung, but I`m about to. After 24 states chimed in with their choice of presidential candidates, I can`t believe I`m saying this, but we`re still a long way from anybody locking up their party`s nomination, and here`s how I got there.

You probably heard a lot about the Republicans today, how John McCain has pulled ahead and the nomination is all but in the bag for him. How Rush Limbaugh and everybody on talk radio has absolutely no influence anymore. How John McCain is so strong that now he`s going to finally turn back to his leftist views.

Honestly, I don`t think I can talk about John McCain yet, so I thought maybe we would turn, you know, to the Republicans a little later on in the program. We have Republican strategist Mary Matalin in the second half of the show. We`ll spend a half hour to see if there`s any way to stop the McCainiacs from taking over the planet.

Now, let`s move to the Democrats. Their candidates, their primaries are kind of annoying, just slightly. The delegates are awarded proportionately. If Barack Obama wins a state with 55 percent of the vote, that means he gets 55 percent of the delegates. Not all of them.

Considering how close the race is between Clinton and Obama, gosh, no clear front-runner seems to be emerging any time soon. As it stands now, Obama took more states yesterday, while Clinton has a slight edge in the delegates.

Here is a taste of the speeches last night, each of them seizing the moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: But in this election, at this moment, you are standing up all across this country to say not this time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not this time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not this time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not this time.

OBAMA: Not this year.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not this year.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not this year.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not this year.

OBAMA: The stakes are too high and the challenge is too great to play the same Washington game with the same Washington players and somehow expect a different result. This time must be different. This time we have to turn the page. This time we have to write a new chapter in American history. This time we have to seize the moment!

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Give us this nation to heal, this world to lead, this moment to seize. I know we`re ready. Thank you all, and God bless you!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: Democrats. I mean, I don`t get it. Is there a choice between these two? My gosh, it`s pretty obvious which one is a little better.

Tonight, here`s what you need to know. Both Clinton and Obama have way less than half the delegates that they need for the nomination. The race is probably going to stay incredibly close right up through the Pennsylvania primary in April. Some say now that we could see a brokered convention for the Democrats. It would be the first in a half century, but that`s what the experts were saying about the Republicans two weeks ago.

We still have nine nightmare months of this ahead of us before election day, and that`s long enough for almost anything to happen, including my head to explode.

Laura Schwartz is political analyst and former special assistant for the Clinton administration.

Laura, how are you?

LAURA SCHWARTZ, POLITICAL ANALYST: Great, Glenn. What a night.

BECK: I can`t -- I don`t know who you vote for or who you`re rooting for or whatever, but -- you know, I watch. I hate his policies. He`s so far -- I mean, he`s the most liberal in the Senate. But you watch Barack Obama and you listen to him, and then you listen to Hillary Clinton, and you`re like is -- is that the choice? He is such a good speaker.

SCHWARTZ: He is. And the Hillary Clinton campaign even said through anonymous sources yesterday that she really had to bone up on those one-on- one conversations and those big rallies she`s bound to host between now and Pennsylvania on April 22.

BECK: OK. So here is the thing I`ve been thinking of. Everybody will say that Barack Obama is just -- he`s unbeatable because he`s just -- you know, he`s such a good candidate -- blah, blah, blah, blah, blah -- if he gets into the general election.

If anything happens, I mean, I saw a story today that says Israel is preparing for war. Iran over the weekend decided to launch some missiles. I`m sure it was just, you know, some sort of space test and something completely harmless, trying to find energy for their people. That happens, Barack Obama. Hillary Clinton has a chance. Barack Obama doesn`t have a chance.

SCHWARTZ: Well, it`s interesting, Glenn, you bring up something very important. You know, right now it`s about the economy.

BECK: Right.

SCHWARTZ: And Hillary Clinton is very strong on the economy, because she points to her husband`s administration, where there was a large economic expansion and over 22 million jobs created. Great.

But especially running against McCain and, if there national incidents out there pondering, which they are, Barack Obama has the biggest contract with John McCain on the war, and the biggest contrast might be the biggest ace in the hole for Barack Obama. So it will be interesting with a match- up like that, because John McCain is going to make it all about the war.

BECK: I have to tell you, I just can`t -- I don`t mean to be rude, but I barely even heard a word you said because I was watching Hillary Clinton there, doing the little thing and then pointing to people in the audience, like "I love you. I love" -- it drives me crazy.

SCHWARTZ: And it`s every -- she does that every time.

BECK: I hate it.

SCHWARTZ: I mean, makes good pictures.

BECK: Where is this going to be decided? This is -- this is really coming down to Ohio, isn`t it?

SCHWARTZ: Yes, I mean, last night Barack Obama won more states and more delegates. Hillary won less states, but they were big ones, but they sprit the delegates.

So going into this week and next week, Barack Obama is in favor of a lot of these primaries. He is going to dominate the news cycle. And then we`ve got March 4. And that`s Ohio and Texas.

You know, used to be all about Florida, and then the last general election was all about Ohio. It may very well be again.

BECK: OK. Laura, thanks very much. It`s always good to see you.

SCHWARTZ: Thanks, Glenn.

BECK: And now Democrats all across the country seem pretty evenly divided between Clinton and Obama. But some rather bold color lines are being drawn. And actually, it`s not color as much as it is age, in some ways.

African-Americans overwhelmingly -- overwhelmingly are supporting Barack. Hispanic voters turned out for Hillary, but the lines are kind of starting to blur.

Mort Zuckerman is the editor in chief of "U.S. News & World Report."

Mort, I don`t see this as gender, and I don`t see this as race. I see this much more about the elder -- elderly population and the youth of America.

MORT ZUCKERMAN, EDITOR IN CHIEF, "U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT": Look, it`s partly about gender. Certainly, there are an awful lot of women who are really thrilled by the fact that there might be the first female president.

So -- and it`s also about race. If you look at the vote in the African-American community, it`s probably 90 percent for Barack Obama. And it`s also about race in the sense that a lot of people in America like the fact that somebody like Barack Obama is running for the presidency. He`s at the top of national politics. He`s raising more money than the white candidates. So there are people who feel good about that narrative.

And so it`s partly about that, but it is also clearly about generational. And Barack`s approach is, "Hey, I`m the young guy. You don`t have to worry. I will change, because I have nothing to do with the past." That may or may not work, but that`s his approach. He`s campaigning from 30,000 feet with rhetoric and not with policy.

BECK: Right. And it comes down when you say, "I have nothing to do with the past." That`s where he really gets hurt with experience.

Sixty-eight percent of the people who voted yesterday said Barack stands for change. I don`t even know what that means. But 91 percent said experience matters, and 91 percent, that went to Hillary Clinton. That`s where you`re going to get into trouble if you`re running a campaign and something happens in the United States, whether it be economy or war.

ZUCKERMAN: I think I couldn`t agree with you more. I mean, it`s certainly we are in real trouble with the economy, and this economy is not going to get better during this year. It`s going to get worse. We saw the statistics that just came out this week that indicated unemployment is really going to start growing.

That`s going to dominate, I believe, the political dialogue of this coming year, and Hillary is going to be much stronger on that than Obama.

BECK: Yes.

ZUCKERMAN: If there is a terrorist attack, on the other hand, and McCain is the Republican nominee, he`s going to benefit from that, because he`s got the national security credential that Obama simply lacks.

BECK: What do you think about Obama losing Massachusetts after the whole Kennedy clan came out?

ZUCKERMAN: You know, it speaks to the limits of endorsements. I mean, the fact is that Hillary Clinton was well-known in Massachusetts. She was popular. There`s no doubt but that Ted Kennedy is well-known in Massachusetts and is popular.

But you just can`t transfer that kind of endorsement from somebody like Ted Kennedy, who`s in his mid-70s to somebody like Hillary.

BECK: Mort, I know you chastised me last time you were on when I said something about Ted Kennedy. But I have to tell you. I think that, in Ted Kennedy`s case, I think it had more -- this endorsement had more to do with the legacy of the Kennedys, more than actually endorsing Barack Obama, because they think he was the best candidate.

Do you think that`s hogwash?

ZUCKERMAN: No, I don`t think it`s hogwash. But there`s another strain of the Kennedys. I`ve said this in the past. Look, both John Kennedy and Robert Kennedy were assassinated. There was a halo about them, as a result in part of that and in part of what they stood for.

They like to think that they represent the idealistic wing of the Democratic Party.

BECK: Yes.

ZUCKERMAN: And Obama, they feel, fits into that category. So they naturally would go to him.

BECK: Mort, always good to talk to you. Thank you very much.

ZUCKERMAN: My pleasure.

BECK: Coming up, Huckabee`s southern victories. Did it make it a three-way race in the GOP? The muscle behind the campaign who, I`m being told, is not real happy with me. Chuck Norris.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Well, John McCain may have won California and New York, making him the GOP front runner. And that makes blood shoot out of my eyes, but that`s America today.

Mike Huckabee and Mitt Romney are not going down without a fight. Both are staying in. Exclusive analysis of the GOP race and Super Tuesday results with Republican strategist Mary Matalin in just a bit. You don`t want to miss that. We`re going to spend about a half hour with her.

Now Super Tuesday say Republican John McCain increase his lead, Mitt Romney coming in second and Mike Huckabee a more distant third. Here is what the retired minister and former governor had to say last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you. You know, over the past few days, a lot of people have been trying to say that this is a two-man race. Well, you know what, it is! And we`re in it!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: The race is far from over. And it is -- it is amazing how many people are endorsing people that you wouldn`t expect them to endorse. One of the big celebrity endorsers this election season that none has been more passionate than actor Chuck Norris on his commitment to Mike Huckabee. And he joins us again.

Hello, Chuck. How are you, sir?

CHUCK NORRIS, ACTOR: Hi, Glenn. It`s good to talk to you again.

BECK: All right. First of all, will you tell me that you thought -- well, I`m not going to put words in your mouth. What did you think of the way -- what did you think of the way things went down in West Virginia?

NORRIS: Well, you know, the whole thing is that I think the people in West Virginia heard the message that Mike Huckabee put out there, and they started leaning that way. Remember, Mike won five states and with very little money.

BECK: Yes, I know. But hang on, hang on, hang on. What happened was Mitt Romney won. Mike Huckabee came in second. John McCain came in third. They can`t have a plurality. They have to have a majority. So they went and re-voted, and the John McCain people called their supporters and said, "Don`t vote for John McCain. Throw all your weight behind Mike Huckabee so Huckabee can beat Romney." It was politics at its worst.

Isn`t that the kind of stuff that you and I are both sick of?

NORRIS: I`m sick of it all, Glenn. I mean, but Romney is doing the same thing. He`s -- he`s got the rumor out there that Mike Huckabee should be bowing out, and don`t take his votes away from him.

And the thing is for Mitt Romney to be so presumptuous that, if he bowed out, that all the people that were voting for Mike Huckabee would swing their votes over to Mitt Romney is really presumptuous, because I believe most of them would be going to John McCain anyway. So...

BECK: There would be -- I will tell you, he took votes away from Romney last night, but he took delegates away from John McCain. So it kind of worked both ways. I spoke to the governor last night, and I asked him this question.

If the race really is against the frontrunner, why do you not say anything bad about John McCain? Why is it you`re always attacking Mitt Romney and you`re not pointing out -- if Mike Huckabee really is a conservative, why isn`t he pointing out all of the places that John McCain has faltered on a conservative viewpoint?

NORRIS: Because John McCain is not running a negative ad against Mike Huckabee. Mitt Romney has run 14,000 negative ads against Mike Huckabee and John McCain. And so they have to respond to those negative ads.

BECK: Is that the way -- so is that the difference between -- that`s the difference -- there`s a difference between responding and mounting your own campaign against it. Is that what Jesus would do in the first place?

NORRIS: No, no, no.

BECK: And the second thing is, is don`t you point out -- there`s a difference between a negative campaign and pointing out the difference between you and the front-runner. It appears as though Governor Huckabee is just in it to become vice president.

NORRIS: Now -- no, Mike Huckabee is in to become president of the United States. And there`s -- he has nothing to do with this vice president thing. If Mike Huckabee had the $100 million that Mitt Romney had and Hillary Clinton had, he would be way ahead of John McCain and Mitt Romney right now.

BECK: OK. Let me go back to -- let me go back to what McCain said in a speech last night. We have the audio of McCain praising Huckabee. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Not for the first time he surprised the rest of us and proved again his exceptional skills as a campaigner and the extraordinary commitment and determination of the people who believe so passionately in him. I salute you. I salute Governor Huckabee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: This is -- come on! This is not a campaign to knock Romney out?

NORRIS: I watched that last night. He also complimented Mitt Romney right after that.

BECK: Not my...

NORRIS: He did, too.

BECK: He was throwing flowers.

NORRIS: He was talking longer about Mitt Romney than he did talk about Mike Huckabee last night.

BECK: All right.

NORRIS: I watched it, Glenn.

BECK: OK.

NORRIS: Don`t tell me differently.

BECK: OK. You look -- you look angry.

NORRIS: No, I`m not angry. I`m very concerned because the thing is, this -- this races, as you know, our country is in a slippery slide downhill. You know, you`ve talked about it consistently. I`ve watched you. And the thing is if we don`t get the right person in that office, we`re in deep trouble.

BECK: I agree with you. I agree with you. But I`ve got to tell you, it ain`t John McCain. It`s not John McCain, Chuck.

NORRIS: And it`s not Mitt Romney either.

BECK: OK. Then fine. Then fine. Then tell me why, again, you won`t point out that it`s not John McCain.

NORRIS: The thing is, is that there`s only one person who can out debate Hillary Clinton or Obama next -- this year.

BECK: OK.

NORRIS: And that is Mike Huckabee. He`s the only one who has -- he`s the only one who has the communication stills and articulation.

BECK: Just real quick. Chuck, real quick, because I`m out of time. Neither Mitt Romney nor Huckabee look like they can pull it off. Maybe they can and America, let`s just say they can. Can you pull the lever for John McCain? Will you pull the lever for John McCain?

NORRIS: Right now I`m pulling the lever for Mike Huckabee, because it`s not -- it`s not out of the race, Glenn. Remember, we`ve got Texas, Ohio and Pennsylvania.

BECK: I know, I know. OK, Chuck, always, thank you very much, sir. Good to...

NORRIS: Thank you, Glenn.

BECK: All right. Coming up, the host of the reality show that started it all. Jeff Probst from CBS`s "Survivor."

And is the GOP nomination all locked up? No. Some people say that there`s a chance for an upset. I`d like to find the way. Coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Well, I wish we could play politics with just some sort of Survivor Island where they all have to eat bugs and we all vote them off the island. Unfortunately, I don`t think any of them would last, quite frankly.

Sixteenth season now of real "Survivor." Its host, Jeff Probst, is with us now.

Hi, Jeff. How are you?

JEFF PROBST, HOST, "SURVIVOR": Hi, I`m glad there is not a term limit, you know, for hosts of reality shows. I would have been out of a job. I know, I know.

BECK: Is that insane?

PROBST: A little bit, but I`m happy for it. Good job security for me.

BECK: How many years?

PROBST: That`s eight years and CBS just renewed us for 17 and 18, so that will be nine years.

BECK: How much are you pulling down? In all seriousness?

PROBST: More than I -- than I would have ever thought when I dropped out of college that I would ever make. That`s for damn sure.

BECK: I remember the first time it came on, and it -- because it was really the first reality show.

PROBST: Yes.

BECK: And "Millionaire" was up against it.

PROBST: Right.

BECK: Right?

PROBST: Yes.

BECK: And you just blew "Millionaire" right out of the water.

PROBST: You know what`s funny about that, too, is that when I was trying to get the job, I met with Mark Burnett, and he met a bunch of people. And I didn`t hear from him for months. And so I thought, "Man, I`ve to get back in his head."

So I did this thin where I wrote this sort of a press release that washed up in a bottle like it had been drifted on the shore, you know, years later. And it said all these outrageous things like "Survivor" -- we hadn`t shot. I didn`t even have the job. But it said, "`Survivor` knocks `Millionaire` off the air," "`Survivor` Sets Summer Season Viewing Record," "`Survivor` Lets Les Moonves Buy Another Island" and you know.

And we -- Mark and I were talking about it the other day, going what`s crazy is at the time when you read it, you thought, this is a bunch of hyperbole.

BECK: Right.

PROBST: And it all -- pretty much all came true.

BECK: Do you still have it?

PROBST: I do. I have the original copy.

BECK: How cool is that?

PROBST: It was so corny. I was just desperate to try and get back in his mind.

BECK: What were you doing? What were you doing at the time?

PROBST: Unemployed.

BECK: For how long?

PROBST: Eighteen months. I waited. I waited, Glenn. I did. I had job offers. I turned down nine jobs in that 18 months, because they were all the kind of jobs that I looked at and thought...

BECK: Because you were like a "Hollywood Reporter" guy. Weren`t you?

PROBST: That was -- that was kind of a left turn.

BECK: I don`t mean to...

PROBST: No, no, no. I worked for "Access Hollywood" for a year.

BECK: And you hated it.

PROBST: I hated it and I loved those guys at "Access." I`m still friends with them. They knew I wasn`t the right fit.

BECK: Yes.

PROBST: We both looked at each other.

BECK: How many times can you say, "Is this the last drug problem you`re going to have?"

PROBST: And you have to ask those questions.

BECK: So Micronesia.

PROBST: Yes.

BECK: Don`t even know where Micronesia is.

PROBST: I didn`t either.

BECK: Is there a Macronesia?

PROBST: You know what? It`s funny that there`s a debate on what is Micronesia. The locals would say ignore the maps. Let us really tell you where Micronesia is.

BECK: Right.

PROBST: But it`s near the Philippines.

BECK: Aha!

PROBST: I know that, because they got some bad storms, and we got their weather. So we were close enough for that.

BECK: Yes.

PROBST: But it`s this little dot. We`re in Palau, just this little dot, one of the states of Micronesia.

BECK: It starts this weekend?

PROBST: Yes, starts Thursday night.

BECK: And it`s actually favorites against fans?

PROBST: Right. We`re taking 10 people who played before and putting them up against 10 people who sit on their couch and go, "Why did you do that?"

BECK: Is the fat naked guy that was in jail, is he back on? Or is he still in jail?

PROBST: Still in jail.

BECK: Still in jail? Who would have seen that one coming?

PROBST: Now, can we just detour for a moment? When the federal government says, OK, "All bets are off. No kidding around."

BECK: Yes.

PROBST: "You`re going to go to prison."

BECK: Yes.

PROBST: "Do you still want to say `not guilty`?"

BECK: Yes. No, not really.

PROBST: "I`m guilty as hell. Here`s my wallet. I don`t want to go to prison."

BECK: We`re going to spend an hour with Jeff Probst later on in the week.

Up next, a half hour exclusive interview with Mary Matalin, former White House advisor. Kind of a tough gear shift, but we`re going to make that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: OK, America. I want to spend about a half hour here with Mary Matalin. She is the Republican strategist, former White House adviser, one of the smart people on how do we get out of the mess that I think we are in?

MARY MATALIN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: The only thing that could be more fun than sitting here talking to you for a half hour is -- this is the binge table. Where is the pizza?

(CROSSTALK)

BECK: Look it. Over here -- look it -- there is a crumb. There`s binge cake for me, eating binge cake last night.

MATALIN: Snort your table.

BECK: It was horrible. Horrible.

MATALIN: I`m honored to be at the binge table.

And yes, let`s talk.

BECK: What happened? What is happening to the conservative movement?

MATALIN: The conservative movement is alive and well. It`s exactly the opposite of what the press is suggesting is the case.

If you look at every single primary, six out of 10 people continue to identify themselves as conservatives, but they were split up. It`s arithmetic. You can have five guys or two guys -- it doesn`t matter -- splitting up 60 percent of the vote and one guy getting 40 percent of the vote.

What scared me last night about McCain arithmetically is, the states that he won, we have -- I know everybody hates the whole blue/red thing...

BECK: Yes.

MATALIN: ... but there blue places and there are red places. There are purple places. In the purple places like Missouri, he lost the constituency even while he was winning the state that comes back to Republicans in the general.

BECK: Right.

MATALIN: On issues, Republicans vote on issues. Seniors tend to vote with Republicans because they are so much better physically.

He won these things in blue states that have -- reap no benefits for the fall. So...

BECK: Let`s take it -- let`s take it piece by piece.

First of all, Romney. Dead or still has a chance?

MATALIN: What`s the one thing we know? We`ve had a thousand conversations.

BECK: Yes.

MATALIN: The one thing we about this election cycle is we don`t know what we don`t know. Every piece of conventional wisdom has been wrong.

Everybody who has been watching today has been writing him off, writing him off. He`s going to next week -- the contest goes to places where he has done well. He`s done well in caucus events. Not that they`ve been covered in Nevada and Wyoming and whatnot. But it`s Washington and Kansas, and those are caucus events.

Then we go to my hometown, the Potomac primary, on the 12th. And it`s Maryland and Virginia and D.C. And people are -- conservatives are saying, you know, who? We`re not going to let perfect be the enemy of good here. They`re coalescing.

BECK: How can the guy who is, you know, not politically speaking, but the Lee Iacocca of the race, the guy who is the turnaround guy -- the number one priority of everybody right now is the economy. How is that not connecting?

MATALIN: For all of these debates and all of this blather, we have just recently started talking about the economy, which, oh, by the way, is when Mitt Romney really got in his stride. I think he launched his campaign in a way that was uncomfortable for him.

BECK: Yes.

MATALIN: He is not not conservative. All his friends and people that know say he is really conservative. Those just weren`t issues that were animating.

BECK: Right.

MATALIN: He was a red guy in a blue state. And he did -- OK, but then -- so he started that way, which was awkward for him.

When he got to this -- and it`s not just our immediate problems, which we`re not in a recession, we`re in a slowdown. I don`t care what they`re trying to jam down our throats.

We -- something has happened in the last -- since the last election that is critical to our future, which is 39 percent of the world`s population, India and China, have come online from a third to a first world economy. He knows that better than anybody else. This is not just about - - and he understands that all tax cuts are not created equal, that you have to have tax cuts and programs that are stimulative that incentivize productivity, not just paying somebody`s heating bills.

BECK: But if you look at -- but if you look at what happened in California, the people who said that the economy was number one, they went for McCain. I don`t even begin to understand that.

MATALIN: I actually -- I was surprised at California. I haven`t quite figured that out, because that is...

BECK: Do you think -- is it possible the dope smoking and the sandals just -- I mean, just through osmosis maybe.

MATALIN: I -- you know, it could have been a process of really the time zones. You know, people in the western time zones, sometimes their votes are suppressed just by virtue of, you know, they`re watching...

BECK: The binge cake.

MATALIN: You know, but we do know this -- the exit polls being wrong tend to influence later voters.

BECK: Yes.

MATALIN: I`ve seen it over and over and over in seven campaigns.

BECK: Yes. Which is not good for Romney, because he does well out West.

OK. Let me switch to Huckabee, and then we`ll get on the McCain story.

Huckabee yesterday, first of all -- and I know you are a political animal. I hate politics. And I hate the way West Virginia happened. And I would say it if it was Huckabee that was number one and then they switched it all around. That`s dirty politics.

Tell me how McCain and Huckabee are not in this together to knock Romney out.

MATALIN: I can`t tell you that. I can tell you that this process whereby -- each state does it differently, and they -- so they have a convention where Romney won in the first round. And it`s like old-time conventions...

BECK: Sure.

MATALIN: ... before primaries. And then when it was -- then the McCain people said, throw your votes to Huckabee and we`ll give the state to Huckabee, and Huckabee is going to soon wake up and find out he`s done. We`re done with him. You know, we don`t need...

(CROSSTALK)

BECK: You don`t think that he`s had -- do you think McCain is the kind of guy that would choose him as-- because I -- I mean, look, they are playing footsies together.

I mean, I asked -- I asked Huckabee yesterday, "If McCain is the front-runner, why are you attacking number two? Why aren`t you going after number one? If you`re the conservative, how come you`re not saying John McCain is not a conservative here?"

He has no answer.

MATALIN: I never impugn motives, but it would seem that their agendas do not comport enough for Huckabee to never have taken on McCain and done nothing other than laud him at every turn. Maybe.

BECK: Right.

MATALIN: But if you look at Huckabee`s record in Arkansas, he raised taxes, he expanded government. He`s got that...

BECK: They do have a lot in common.

MATALIN: ... federal ban against smoking. And he was a magnet state for illegal immigrants, that kind of stuff. So maybe he actually does agree with them. But the thought that McCain will pick him for vice president?

Karl Rove said a very smart thing last night. Everything he says is smart, but this is what he said -- "That`s called doubling your trouble." Because conservatives who actually care about issues -- although they did gravitate to him in those southern states, I think, as a southerner last night -- that`s not what they think the role of government should be in a free society, the way he governed in Arkansas.

BECK: How does McCain bring everybody together? I don`t think Rush Limbaugh is going to change. I`m not going to change.

I talked to James Dobson today. Boy, he -- what a fascinating conversation I had with him for about 20 minutes on the radio today.

He is not going to change. There are just conservatives that will say, you know what? I can`t sell out so many values. I can`t go for a guy who is fighting the fight for global warming with 50 cents on a gallon of gas. That, you know, it`s an abomination on the border security that has joined and reached across the aisle every time to help them while demonizing our side and never brought any of them over to the conservative side.

How do you it?

MATALIN: Well, and uses the lingo of the left. We might as well just air this, because if he`s our nominee we`re all going to have to address it, because the -- attacking Romney, for instance, as being a manager for profit, what was this country born of and prospered on and leading the world on the profit motive? It`s called free market. Or attacking big -- you know, big corporations are bad which, you know, provide 140 million jobs in this?

No. Here`s what people don`t understand, including the press, including my dearly beloved who has been teasing me now for a week -- I`m ready to kill him. "You guys are just going to fall in line."

Now, we`re not. See, they are basing this on our past history.

If we did fall in line in the `80s, because that was the ascendancy. That was our first electoral success. We did fall in line in the `90s because the alternative was Bill Clinton.

We`ve had many successes in the last couple of years on the Supreme Court, on immigration, on Dubai Ports, the security measure. The movement is sufficiently mature and is numerous enough to not have to get in line in the cycle, and they are not going to.

BECK: OK. Hold on.

I`m going to give you a second to think this one through, because what I think you just said to me is what I cannot believe that you actually said.

When we come back, then I have to ask you. If it is Hillary Clinton and John McCain, do you pull the John McCain lever?

Back in a second.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: When we last left the episode, we were talking to Mary Matalin, who -- GOP strategist, she`s worked in the White House. She is a leader of the conservative movement.

I`m a guy who, I have lent my trust, lent my power to the Republican Party long enough. I will vote for a Republican, but I`m going to keep you on such an unbelievably short leash, and I am not going to give you my trust for very long.

By your fruits I will know you.

By John McCain`s fruits, holy cow is this a bad tree. So, voted against tax cuts, doesn`t understand tax cuts. Global warming, he`s all in for global warming, and let`s fix that. And let`s put 50 cents a gallon on gasoline.

The border he is an absolute nightmare on it. Amnesty for everybody, even though he says, friends, not amnesty.

McCain/Feingold -- I absolutely think this guy will bring the fairness doctrine and get it done and push it through. He will reach across the aisle and talk radio will be done.

McCain/Feingold, good heavens, there is a basket of fruit for you.

Do you vote for him if it is McCain/Clinton, McCain/Obama? .

MATALIN: He is only halfway to the delegate acquisition that he needs. If he makes it -- he has a lot of smart people around him. I know these guys. I`ve worked with them forever.

I have not been a conservative leader. I have been a party operative trying to get conservative politics done. And I understand that politics it`s the art of the possible.

But in this case, it is impossible for him to -- it`s possible for him to get the nomination, but they are smart enough to know it`s impossible to be successful against anybody. The notion that we`re just going to turn out because we hate her so much, the negative turnout argument, no.

BECK: No.

MATALIN: I just said, conservatives have matured sufficiently that they`re going to be for their agenda. So my prediction is the McCain we have seen in the primaries, getting the ad-on moderates and Independents, in lieu of conservatives, he`s going to have to go back. He started a little bit in his speech last -- last -- whenever it was. I`m in a time warp. Going to CPAC...

BECK: That`s not -- that`s talk.

MATALIN: You know, a lot of this talk is -- sometimes the temperament is important. Attacking big pharma and profit, you can cut -- or he didn`t like the tax cuts because they were geared to the rich. No, they weren`t, but even if they were, why are the rich demonized?.

BECK: But that was -- but that was -- that was the first excuse.

MATALIN: I know.

BECK: Then it was something else. Then it was something else.

MATALIN: So what he`s got to do, instead of having all these moderates every time you turn on the TV, there is a lot of conservatives out there who have...

BECK: He was on today with Joe Lieberman behind him.

MATALIN: You know who has been good on national security, so we have got to give him that. And you know what he used to be good on until he got (INAUDIBLE), and then he came back on affirmative action and vouchers and whatnot -- he`s a pretty...

BECK: I love Lieberman.

MATALIN: I do, too. I really do love Lieberman.

BECK: I love Lieberman.

MATALIN: But your point -- that`s exactly my point. There are conservatives who on conservative core principles addressed 21st century problems and had huge successes in their state. The first round was governors Engler and Tommy Thompson, who had -- they were the laboratory of progress.

Jeb Bush just left with 60 percent -- education reform, housing reform, economic reform. The place is in a boom. All on conservative principles.

BECK: How -- so, answer the question, yes or no. Do you pull the lever for John McCain?

MATALIN: I have to vote for my principles, which I presume he is going to get to. He says he`s going to get to it. He has to do it in some trust but verified way.

BECK: You and I -- I don`t mean to violate any kind of trust. And I don`t think I`m going to here.

You and I had lunch the first time we ever met. And you said, "When you`re president of the United States, you have stood in the Oval Office, and you have to make a decision like that, and it`s got to be here."

Well, we have seen a pattern of what`s in here with John McCain.

MATALIN: It`s troublesome. He needs to understand that people think that way, and that they`re way past the stage where they feel like they just have to suck it up to be in power, because that`s not what they want to be in power to be.

In answer to that, they (ph) would give solace to mainstream conservatives here is, who -- what`s his team? The V.P. selection, which normally doesn`t matter very much, is going to matter exponentially in his case. He`s going to have to lay out some of his cabinet, probably.

I had this great idea. I thought that he could bring Jeb Bush into the White House and make him a cabinet level czar of all -- you know, just...

BECK: Please, stop with the Clintons and the Bushes.

MATALIN: This is about principles. It`s not a dynasty thing. This guy actually did it in Florida.

OK, bring Newt Gingrich in. Some of these guys have thought about and have acted on and have been successful with the problems that we are facing with market forces, health care reform, or cost reform.

That`s not about bringing it into Washington. We reduced the quality and you`re just cost-shifting. Market forces. Infuse it through the consumer and through...

BECK: How do you -- how do we -- how do we survive -- how do we survive -- do you believe that the border is an issue?

MATALIN: Yes, a security issue.

BECK: How do we survive with a guy who has one of the leading Mexican advocates, a guy who worked for the president of Mexico who says, "Once a Mexican, always a Mexican"; that no matter where you are, you`re a Mexican; wants amnesty for all; says we`ve got to stop thinking about borders; we`re all one thing -- we`re Canada, we`re Mexico, we`re America?

That`s who John m McCain has in his Hispanic outreach program.

MATALIN: A world without borders. We`re are all Kumbaya. We`re all one world. We`re all the same.

BECK: So how do you believe him on that?

MATALIN: I`m not a defender here. I am not -- well, how do I believe him?

BECK: I don`t mean to attack you.

MATALIN: And you`re right. That was very -- that was politically insane.

BECK: Suicidal.

MATALIN: Of course, the mainstream press will tell you that everybody that worked on immigration or fought for immigration got knocked out of the race, but you do know this. I`m going to tell you this. You and all of our ilk (INAUDIBLE) immigration package.

BECK: And we`re about to elect the guy, at least put him in as the front-runner, for the party that was the strongest against it. It makes no sense.

MATALIN: I think that is the first thing he`s walked back on. That is the very first thing he`s walked back on. And that issue and the security of the borders and the disruption to the communities, this is not racist or nativist or kind of words that Huckabee has used.

BECK: Oh please.

MATALIN: It is...

BECK: And John McCain has used.

MATALIN: And that`s not -- that so doesn`t understand the immigrants.

I`m an immigrant. It`s proud to be. And it`s an acclimation.

You know what all the issues are. We`re just -- people won`t stand for it. And it`s not just conservatives. The Democratic base is split on this too, big time. That`s why I`m not -- I`m not worried about immigration, because the Democrats -- there`s many Democrats that side with conservatives on this issue.

BECK: I was -- I spoke to a group of young conservatives, young Republicans, last weekend. And afterwards, one of them came up and said, "You know, we can do all of these projects. We can mobilize and grassroots," and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. "Where do you think we should start?"

And I said, "I think you should start on, what do you stand for? What are your values?"

And don`t you think that the Republican Party, and really both parties, their first priority is to win? Or let`s just fix this one problem. But they don`t have the framework anymore.

Ronald Reagan believed in about five things. And when you believe in those five things, you know exactly what you are going to do. You know how to answer everything.

MATALIN: This is even more elemental than that. And this is the only kind of show you can talk about this on.

It`s not the five things -- lower taxes, increase the military. It is the core principles on which this country was founded...

BECK: Yes.

MATALIN: ... that we need to be reminded of, which is, what is the role of the government in a free society? The founders knew this. It was (INAUDIBLE) powers. It`s not find rights. It`s not redistribute property. It`s protect property, get out of my way, don`t disincentivize entrepreneurship.

BECK: OK.

Final thoughts with Mary Matalin coming up in just...

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: We are back with GOP strategist and publisher of my brand-new book...

MATALIN: Which is been on the week (ph), on the list.

BECK: Eleven weeks.

MATALIN: You are the biggest seller of all time.

BECK: Is that...

MATALIN: And that`s a good threshold -- yes.

BECK: It`s insane, isn`t it?

MATALIN: It augers well for the whole -- see, don`t get despondent about conservatism. Who do you think is buying your books?

BECK: Oh, no, no, no, no. No, no, no.

I have to tell you, I`m not despondent about conservatives. I believe -- I believe there is a ton of conservatives out there.

I just don`t see the leaders out there that call themselves Republicans. I think the Republicans have become Democrats and Democrats have become socialists. And we`ve got to pull this back...

MATALIN: The leaders are out there, it`s just they`re not in there. They are not inside the beltway.

They`ve transmuted out to you. You`re a leader.

You know why your book is selling the way it is? Because people don`t want to be re-branded. They don`t even really want the 11th commandment.

Conservatives want accessible information about the reassertion and reaffirmation of these core principles we just talked about. That`s why your book is flying off the shelves.

BECK: Do you -- do you dare make a prediction on -- and everybody has been wrong. And so I know, you know, it`s stupid to make a prediction. Do you dare make a prediction on what`s going to happen and who the runner -- who the nominees are going to be?

MATALIN: I can make this kind of prediction -- if the McCain people think that all they have to do is put out a few olive branches and whatnot, and that there`s -- the unity of the party means victory, they`re wrong. It`s unity plus energy. You have to have an energetic party.

It`s still a 50/50 country. You don`t have to be (INAUDIBLE) about it, but to energize these people to secure victory there has to be a reaffirmation, a recommitment, a reassertion of these core principles that do not just undergird the Republican Party, but are the essence of what this country was built on.

BECK: Right.

MATALIN: This is like, someone read the Constitution again.

BECK: I know.

Read the words of our founding fathers. It`s absolutely, absolutely amazing.

Mary, as always, love you. Thank you very much.

MATALIN: Thank you.

BECK: During our first live broadcast last night, someone had the bright idea to follow me around with a little flip video camera. And I haven`t seen any of the footage yet, but given that I had no questions to ask, like 10 seconds before I went on the air, for I think the second hour, I`m sure that all of the behind-the-scenes video is not all that flattering.

Despite that, we are willing to publish in our newsletter for subscribers only. It`s absolutely free. You can sign up at glennbeck.com. You`ll get that in your email box tomorrow.

Again, my humiliation on display. It has as nothing to do with my butt.

From New York, good night.

END