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Glenn Beck

Election Results Come in for Texas, Ohio, Rhode Island, Vermont

Aired March 04, 2008 - 19:00   ET


GLENN BECK, HOST (voice-over): Hello, America. Tonight, live from New York with the latest on primary night. Joined by experts and analysts from Washington, Atlanta, Ohio, Texas, everywhere with up-to-the-minute results on the races that could -- emphasis could -- decide the Democratic nominee tonight. Plus, I`m so whacked out on Coke Zero just about anything could happen.

It`s all live, and it is all next.

Well, quite honestly, you`d think that after what CNN executives referred to as my Super Tuesday incident I`d never be allowed on live TV. But this network is desperate, so here I am.

Crucial day for the Democrats. Hillary Clinton needs nothing sort of a miracle to stay in the race. Although I don`t think she`s going to work this race, no matter what happens. We`ll bring you the results and the analysis all night long with a little help from a lot of people here in the studio, joined by CNN political contributor Amy Holmes; Democratic strategist Peter Fenn and, from Atlanta, the election desk, we have Erica Hill. I don`t know why we sent you back to Atlanta for this, Erica.

From Washington, D.C., we have reporter for "Congressional Quarterly" Jonathan Allen. From Columbus, Ohio, chief political reporter from the "Columbus Dispatch" Joe Hallett. I hope you`re staying dry, Joe. Also from Austin, Texas, senior political reporter for the "Dallas Morning News" and co-author of -- I love the name of this -- "The Architect, Karl Rove, and the Master Plan for Absolute Power," Wayne Slater. I think you have to say it that way, don`t you, Wayne?

WAYNE SLATER, "DALLAS MORNING NEWS": That`s excellent. Excellent, Glenn.

BECK: Yes, that`s right. But let`s start here in the studio, Peter, Amy and John are with me. First of all, let me just ask you, if Hillary Clinton, she said it was a fire wall, has to -- she has to win Texas and Ohio, if she doesn`t win Texas and Ohio, does she stay in or does she get out? Yes or no.

AMY HOLMES, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: If she loses both states, she gets out. Tonight is a nightmare scenario for Democrats that if she actually wins one of them, and she stays in and this fight continues.

BECK: Hang on just a second. Before I get everybody else, I have to go to Erica. They just called Vermont. This could be a short evening.

Good night, everybody!

ERICA HILL, HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: You can leave early tonight, Glenn. Go home and get a little sleep.

BECK: I`m OK with that.

HILL: So that`s right. CNN is projecting that, in fact, Barack Obama will win the primary in Vermont. At CNN, we`re projecting, actually, I believe, a fair amount of the vote, so 23 delegates at stake in Vermont. That state again, CNN projects, will go to Obama.

BECK: OK. Peter, let me go back to you. If she doesn`t -- if she doesn`t win Texas and Ohio, is she out?


BECK: Jonathan, is she in or out?

JONATHAN ALLEN, "CONGRESSIONAL QUARTERLY": I think she`s in if she wins both. Out if she loses both. And will probably limp on if she wins one.

BECK: And do me a favor. All of you guys explain this. This is from a radio affiliate of mine. I`m going to play the audio for you. It happened this morning with Bill Clinton on KURV 710 AM. Sergio Sanchez was on. And he asks, what`s going happen? Here was Bill Clinton`s response.


BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, first of all, I think it`s almost impossible to make a case that Florida should have to do a do-over. They had a huge turnout. The Florida Democrats were completely blameless, and when their primary occurred, a Republican legislature and a Republican governor did it. And the Florida Democrats specifically asked to be able to go on February the 5th. They were denied.

Then Hillary followed the rules in Florida and did not advertise there; only did fundraising there. She won the votes fair and square, and she didn`t violate the rules.


BECK: Guys now tell me that this isn`t a guy who says, "We`re going in. We`re going in. We`re fighting until the last man."

FENN: And that`s -- you know, there`s a let of delegates. Florida has 211 delegates. That`s not too shabby. But I`ll tell you, Glenn, I think that -- I`ve got a solution for this. Both of these states, right, divide them right down the middle. Fifty percent for Hillary and 50 percent for...


BECK: How big of you.

FENN: But you`d get to see all the delegates.

HOLMES: I feel bad for your party, where the Clintons are already trying to change the rules in the middle of the game.

BECK: It`s amazing. You know, as a conservative, isn`t it kind of -- I don`t know.

HOLMES: Predictable.

BECK: Yes. But they`ve never done it to each other. They`re using all the same tactics that they used on conservatives.

HOLMES: Right.

BECK: They`re doing it to each other, and you`re sitting there watching them going, this is kind of fun.

HOLMES: It`s beautiful.

FENN: Our hope -- our hope, guys -- before you get so exuberant about this...

BECK: We know you`re turning the guns on us soon.

FENN: This is not going to happen. We`re not going to go there. Everybody knows. Some of are old enough to remember 1968 at the Democratic convention. We don`t want another one of those. And I think they`re going to settle this. Howard Dean and the leadership in the house and the Senate, and the super delegates are just not going to let this...

BECK: Jonathan, if this thing came down to a full-fledged fistfight, which I mean, you start messing with the super delegates, and you start going back into the states, et cetera, et cetera, it would be worst than 1968.

ALLEN: If you got to the convention, it would be worst than 1968. But I think that if both candidates have essentially an equal number of delegates or something close to it going into the convention, they`ll work something out, because it`s in everyone`s interest to do that.

BECK: Now, let me go to Austin, Texas. Wayne Slater is there. He`s a political reporter for the "Dallas Morning News." Wayne, kind of on the same subject, I read an article this weekend that the Clintons were threatening a lawsuit to try to hold back information tonight, because I mean, Texas usually you do things right. But I don`t even understand how this thing works.

You voted earlier today. And now you`ve got to go to a caucus after, I think, 8 p.m. Eastern Time. And the Clintons threatened to sue. Can you tell me this story?

SLATER: Basically, what the Clintons are trying to do is discourage the party from releasing the votes tonight of the delegate count. Not the full delegates. Two-thirds of the delegates will be awarded based on the popular vote this afternoon.

But tonight, this delegate happened, this delegate caucus group, 8,000 schools and firehouses across Texas, and about one-third of the delegates will be distributed. The Clinton people don`t want that to be distributed, because they know that Barack Obama`s campaign is really in better shape on the ground. He`s likely to do better in the caucus in Texas. What they want to do is win the popular vote, announce that, declare victory and more on.

BECK: OK, hang on. Conway, our executive producer, can we talk a little bit about the Texas exit polls? Can we do that? We can. Peter, bring...

HOLMES: The voice of God.

BECK: The voice of God. He is God, too. Don`t mess with him.

Give me just Texas. What you`re seeing here. Because everyone I talked to in Texas. I`ve got a lot of friends that lived in Texas, et cetera, et cetera. They all said, Obama landslide.

FENN: Let me give you a few things there, Glenn. First of all, heavy female vote in Texas, 57-43, female over male. Barack Obama wins the male vote by, according to the exit polls now, remember, this isn`t hard and fast numbers. It`s shaky. But 52-47. He`s got plus-five on the -- on the male vote. Hillary Clinton takes the female vote, 54, 46. In other words, plus-eight for Hillary on the female vote.

Now if you do the math on that, and you don`t have to be a Ph.D. from MIT to figure that one out. So that gives an edge, at least according to these polls, I think, to Hillary.

The other thing that happened was, as has happened in other states, very strong response among African-Americans for Barack Obama but also for Hispanics for Hillary Clinton.

BECK: OK. Wayne, real quick, I`ve got to go to Ohio. But yes or no, just make a quick prediction. What does it feel like on the ground in Texas? What`s your gut tell you is going to happen?

SLATER: What my gut says is a lot of people say this is going to be a wash, that Barack Obama`s going to win. I think Hillary Clinton`s going to surprise people, in part for just the reason you just heard. She`s holding onto Hispanics. She`s pulling these women. I think she`s going to surprise people in Texas tonight.

BECK: OK. Now let me go to Ohio. Joe Hallett, he`s the chief political reporter of the "Columbus Dispatch." There`s some real problems, and you can -- you can tell me the layout of the land here, Joe. In northern Ohio, there`s snow and ice. And then there`s flooding in central Ohio. I mean, I don`t know when Ohio`s not flooding. I swear to -- what is going on in Ohio? Who does this effect and is it affecting the voting at all, do you believe?

JOE HALLETT, "COLUMBUS DISPATCH": Well, oddly enough, it doesn`t appear to be affecting turnout. Turnout is heavy across this state, despite this weather. The secretary of state has gone to court in ten counties to changing the voting places because of flooding. She`ll allow people now to vote at county board of elections rather than in their own polling places. They`ll have to cast provisional ballots, which will be counted ten days later.

But despite the horrible weather here, people are coming out in droves.

BECK: And, I got to -- see, I received a lot of phone calls on my radio program today from Republicans who were going out to vote today in, I think it was, the Cleveland area. Surprise, it`s Dennis Kucinich`s old town. But -- and they said, surprise, surprise, everybody that was in line was registered as an independent, and they had been registered as a Republican.

Had you heard any of this before? Because they were saying that they were independent. And one person right after in line. And I wondered how did that happen?

HALLETT: Well, you know, this is a state where you can vote in any primary you want. If you`re Republican, you can vote in the Democratic primary today. That will make a Democratic officially in the state of Ohio.

But there has been some reports that Republicans, some just to cause mischief, some because they believe that maybe Hillary Clinton won`t be as strong as general election candidate as Barack Obama, are voting in the Democratic primary.

But there are a lot of independents coming out, too. And this election here is going to be a test of which side really has more passion.

BECK: OK. We`ll be back here in just a second with more coverage on the primary. All live tonight. And we`ll give you the exit polling from Ohio in just a second.


BECK: Let`s go right now to Erica Hill. She`s in Atlanta at the election desk, and she has the exit poll numbers in Ohio.

HILL: That`s right. Actually, no, I have Vermont for you.

BECK: Vermont.

HILL: I`m going to bring you Ohio a little bit later. Here`s what I can tell you about Vermont, Glenn.

BECK: Yes.

HILL: In Vermont, polls just closed at the top of the hour. CNN os projecting a win for Barack Obama. I have to tell you, not a huge surprise there. Lot of people were expecting this.

Also, CNN is projecting on the GOP side -- may not be the biggest shock here either -- that John McCain will also take the 17 delegates up for grabs in Vermont. And when we`re talking about John McCain, I want to take you now to Texas, because this is something we found really interesting in some of our exit polls. Going through them before the show tonight, if you look at all the respondents here out of Republican voters, 72 percent consider themselves to be a conservative.

And you know, Glenn, how crucial that`s going to be. How that could really play in for McCain, because he has had such a tough time with the conservative base of the Republican Party. So many people saying he is not conservative enough for me. So it will be really interesting to see how that, in fact, plays out when they cast their votes in Texas.

BECK: I`ve got to tell you, I mean, I don`t know even think Huckabee is even a player anymore. I don`t know even know why he`s in there. I mean, is he expecting God to come down and part the heavens?

I mean, I don`t -- I`m not a guy who says get out of the race. You know, it`s America. You want to run, you want to run. But I don`t even understand it at this point. But maybe that`s just me.

Let me go, Amy, real quick, to you about polling data in -- exit polling data in Ohio.

HOLMES: It`s fascinating, Glenn. It looks like she`s made a real turnaround, especially among white meals. She got -- I`m sorry -- 57 percent over Barack Obama`s 41. She turned that directly around from Wisconsin. And that could be making a big difference.

BECK: That brings me to this. You`re not going to see anyplace else, and you should. I just read this guy`s article in the "Aspen Times Weekly" earlier this week. It`s about angry white men. And you just don`t pass up an article on angry white men, because you don`t see it every day. He`s from the "Aspen Times." He`s a weekly columnist, Gary Hubble. I called him up.

HILL: ... have a delay.

BECK: I had him on my radio program.

Hi, Gary. How are you?

GARY HUBBLE, "ASPEN TIMES": Thanks for having me on. I`m great, thanks.

BECK: OK. You -- you`re a Democrat, or were a Democrat. You listen to my radio program. And I`ve been saying now for a couple of years, everybody gets away from these parties, because they`re screwing us all. They`re taking us to the same destination, and they`re screwing us all. They`re telling us one thing and doing another.

You left your party. And you say -- and now I`m starting to read it everywhere -- I read it in "Newsweek" -- you say the angry white man is going to be the one that decides this election. First of all, what is the angry white man? And why do you say that?

HUBBLE: Well, it`s just guys who go to work every day, Glenn. You know, guys that strap it on. They aren`t looking for a handout. They aren`t wondering how they`re going to get a disability check. These are the guys that put -- send their kids to school, and get in a truck and go build something or -- or produce something. And...

BECK: It`s defined now as the angry white man. But around the turn of the century, last century, it was the forgotten man. It was the guy who was just the average Joe, out there busting their butt and never getting a break. Always the one getting slammed. And that is the one little group that nobody`s paying attention to right now.

HUBBELL: Well, tell me -- tell me this, Glenn. Do you think the Democrats would have liked to have had a guaranteed voting block of four million voters in 2000 and 2004 that they would have gotten 90 percent 100 percent of those votes, just like the Republican did? That`s the NRA. That -- that swung the vote entirely in those two elections, in my opinion. And I think it`s going to do it again this year.

BECK: You know, I saw an article in the -- this is the "Wall Street Journal" from last Saturday, when it comes to the U.N. Human Rights Council, is there anything left to say -- goes on to say how the U.N.

And two council experts are now trying to go after the Department of Housing and Urban Development for denying internationally recognized human rights, because they want to tear down a dilapidated building from Hurricane Katrina, rebuild it and have people from different economic background in this one housing. And they`re saying you`re denying international human rights. When the United Nations starts to insert itself into our own domestic agendas, that`s what kind of hacks off the white man.

HUBBELL: That`s true. And, you know, Glenn, what`s been interesting about that is this column went nuclear. Boy, it went nationwide and to some extent worldwide. But I didn`t really anticipate that. I`ve gotten all kinds of comments from all kinds of people.

And the interesting dialogue I`ve gotten was that probably, 85 to 90 percent of the comments have been supportive, and there`s literally been thousands of comments. But then you look on the Internet, and you read some of these blogs, like, where I described this stereotypical or prototypical man, it depends on the language you want to use...

BECK: Yes.

HUBBELL: ... and I`ve had literally thousands of guys saying, "Are you following me around? This is like my daily schedule. You know me."

BECK: You know, Gary, we`re going to -- we`re going to come back to you here in just a few minutes. I want to continue our conversation with you. Because it has to be understood that it`s not an actually angry white man. It is just the left out person, the person that feels like, "I`m not in some sort of special interest group."

HUBBELL: It drove women there. There are women married to...

BECK: And people of different color and everywhere else. It`s just - - what he used as a catchphrase. We`ll come back to that in a second. I want to go back to Atlanta, because we have some more exit polls. And Erica Hill.

HILL: And Glenn, these really play into the discussion that you were just having there about whether or not certain people are left out. Because we look so much at the makeup of voters and how that might influence, in fact, the results.

Take a look at what we`re learning from Ohio. Sixty percent of the voters coming out today, women, versus 40 percent who were men in the Democratic race. And I know this was a big topic on Super Tuesday. You talked about it with Amy and the rest of your panel, about whether or not a women is going to vote for Hillary just because they`re the same gender. Whether a black person is going to vote for Barack Obama because they feel that they look alike.

Well, that is a question that people are going to look at the results in terms of who`s coming out to vote tonight. And they`re going to ask that.

And also, 75 percent of your voters in Ohio in the Democratic race are white. Twenty percent are African-American. So it will be interesting to see, too, how those numbers do split up when it comes to who is, in fact, giving their support to Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.

BECK: Could you do me a favor?

HILL: Yes.

BECK: Erica, could you do me a favor? And have somebody find out the actual numbers of the population of Ohio.

HILL: I can get that for you.

BECK: Give me the population.

HILL: So you want the population breakground.

BECK: By race. I want to be able to see whites, Hispanics, blacks, so I can see how it correlates to...

HILL: To the voters.

BECK: To the voters.

HILL: I`m on it. I`m on it.

BECK: All right. We`ll be back in just a second with Pastor John Hagee. Stand by.


BECK: All right, the evangelical vote. John Hagee is here. He`s the senior pastor of Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, Texas, president of the John Hagee Ministries.

Let me just get this right out on the table, pastor. You`ve had some problem with the Catholics this week, and now it looks like John McCain, who you`ve endorsed, may be distancing himself. Can you explain what happened this week and what your stance is with Catholicism?

JOHN HAGEE, PASTOR, CORNERSTONE CHURCH: Certainly, I can explain that, Glenn. First, thank you for having me on this telecast.

BECK: No problem.

HAGEE: I have written a book called "In Defense of Israel." And in that book, I wrote a chapter called "The Sins of the Fathers." It`s a chapter about anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism is an oxymoron. An anti-Semite is someone who is driven by hate. A Christian is someone who`s driven by love. Therefore, there`s no such thing as a Christian anti-Semite.

And in this chapter, I have talked about the anti-Semitism historically. I have criticized the Catholic Church for its past anti- Semitism. But I have also been very critical of the Protestants and their anti-Semitism, especially as led by Martin Luther.

Standing against anti-Semitism does not make me an anti-Catholic. And standing against anti-Semitism does not make me anti-Protestant. I am very much -- anti-Semitism. It makes no difference who participates in it.

BECK: All right. So let me go to the endorsement of John McCain. You`re an evangelical. Mike Huckabee is still in. He`s an evangelical. Do you believe in John McCain? Or is he kind of like the best one out there? Or tell me about your endorsement of him and why not a fellow evangelical?

HAGEE: Well, let me answer the first question about John McCain. John McCain is pro-life, and that`s a major issue with evangelicals. He has a 24-year voting record to back that up. And if there is an issue that`s visceral with the evangelicals it is pro life. The Constitution of the United States begins with the pledge to the life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

BECK: Patrick, you and I -- I`ve sat down with you for an hour. I interviewed you for an hour. And I`m sorry. But I mean, when I say to you, tell me about John McCain, you go pro life first. I don`t think that fits with who I met on my set.

You are a guy who believes we are here in the end days. Is John McCain the guy to make sure that -- that, you know, the end days don`t happen as you believe we could be seeing now?

HAGEE: The fact is, and I believe John McCain brings to the presidency a mature leadership and a leadership that has the strength of character to lead America into the future in a world that`s become a very dangerous world.

BECK: Let me ask you, because I got -- I get so much e-mail on this, and I think a lot of people do, and I`ve only got a couple of seconds. They say Glenn, you and the media, you`ve got to wake up. Barack Obama`s making people faint and cry and everything else. And he`s drawing people in.

There are people -- and they said this about Bill Clinton that actually believe he might be the anti-Christ. Odds that Barack Obama is the anti-Christ?

HAGEE: No chance. He has a lot of charisma. There`s a media love affair with him right now. He is a very formidable political person. I believe the best leader for America in the future is John McCain.

BECK: Thank you very much, Pastor.

Back in just a second. That`s good news, at least where I stand.


BECK: Well, it`s good to know that Barack Obama is not the anti-Christ.

Welcome back to the program.

Oh crap. CNN right now is saying, oh, boy, wish this wasn`t live.

My name is -- my name is Glenn Beck. I`m glad you`re here. It is election night.

We go now to Erica Hill at the election desk in Atlanta for an update.

Hello. You`re missing the fun here.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: There`s a lot going on there in New York. A lot going on.

BECK: Yes, there is.

HILL: I`m learning so much, including...

BECK: Breaking news.

HILL: There you go.

BECK: Yes.

HILL: How about this breaking news for you?

BECK: Yes, go ahead.

HILL: CNN is now projecting that John McCain will in fact take the state of Ohio. The polls literally just closing in that state.

BECK: Holy cow.

HILL: You sound shocked, Glenn Beck.

BECK: Well, no, because we were just talking a about the exit polls and how -- and basically how they have been wrong every single time this election. But, John McCain is taking Ohio.

HILL: That is the projection at this hour.

And, you know, before, a little bit earlier in show, we were talking about Ohio and the breakdown of voters, or specifically on the Democratic side. We talked about how they broke down by race and whether or not that will play a role.

You asked me what the racial breakdown is -- or makeup is of the state of Ohio.

BECK: Yes.

HILL: A little over 11 million people in that state, according to the 2006 sentence (sic) -- census, that is.

BECK: Census, yes.

HILL: You may feel like it`s a sentence when you have to fill it out.

BECK: Yes.

HILL: Eighty-four percent of Ohioans are white; 12 percent, African- American. And then compare that -- you can see a little bit with who`s coming out to vote on the Democratic side, 75 percent.


HILL: So a little bit less on that side than the actual makeup of the state, while more African-Americans actually are making their voice known as Democrats than there are in the state.


HILL: Also wanted to show you this. In Ohio, Democrats are telling us that the economy is the most important issue. Nearly 60 percent -- in fact, 91 percent of respondents told us it`s in bad shape, it`s not good or poor. That`s bad.

BECK: Let me just ask the panel this -- I mean, this is ridiculous.

You had Ben Bernanke come out.

In fact, can we bring Stephen Moore in? Stephen Moore is the economics editorial writer for "The Wall Street Journal."

Stephen, are you there?


BECK: Yes.

Ben Bernanke comes out today. And I know you`re a guy who`s like, oh, the economy, it`s not as bad as you think it is. You know, it`s probably not. I think it`s on fire.

But he comes out and he`s talking to these bankers, and he says, hey, guys, if you loan $200,000 to somebody, what do you say you call it $150,000 and call it a day? I mean, that should be a statement on how bad of trouble we`re in with our financial institutions.

Right or wrong?

MOORE: Yes. Well, Ben Bernanke has a big problem right now, Glenn, because we have something that`s rearing its ugly head that we haven`t seen for nearly 15 years, and that`s inflation. And so...

BECK: Yes.

MOORE: ... the traditional way of dealing with a bad economy is to pump more out, but we`ve already got inflation.

BECK: Yes. There`s...

MOORE: Remember the term from the `70s, stagflation.

BECK: Yes.

MOORE: That`s what we`re looking at right now.

BECK: And there is -- there is absolutely -- there`s absolutely -- we`re running out of things the Fed can do.

MOORE: Exactly.

BECK: And I actually was in a conversation with somebody the other day. They said, well, we can bail these banks out. We`ll just print more money.

And I went, "That`s a really bad idea."

MOORE: Glenn, I actually think the Fed is doing exactly the wrong thing. We have a falling dollar.


MOORE: We have rising prices of energy, we have rising prices of food. They should be pulling back on the money supply.

BECK: No, no, no. I...

MOORE: ... not, you know, rolling up the printing process.

BECK: Steve, you`re exactly right. I was just talking about a conversation I had with someone who clearly doesn`t get it. You`re exactly right.

MOORE: Well, Wall Street doesn`t get it. Glenn, all of my friends on Wall Street, they want more money out there, that`s the way to stimulate the economy.

BECK: You know what? Stop. Just stop.

MOORE: Exactly.

BECK: It`s like we`re addicted to this.

I`ve got to go to Ohio and Texas, because I find this very interesting.


BECK: You wrote an editorial in "The Wall Street Journal." Just give me the numbers here on -- compare Texas and Ohio.

MOORE: Well, Glenn, it`s almost like they`re different countries.

BECK: Yes.

MOORE: You look at the Texas economy, it is really booming. They`ve created something like 300,000 new jobs over the last four or five years. Trade is actually beneficial. They`re an exporter.

And then you look at Ohio, and everything`s going wrong there. They`re losing income, they`re losing jobs, they`re losing manufacturing, they`re losing plants.

And guess what, Glenn? You know those runaway plants that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are talking about? They`re not going to China and India, they`re going to Texas, because they`re trying to get away from the bad policies of Ohio.

BECK: And you know what I find amazing, Stephen? Is the Democrats are not trying to make Ohio like Texas, they`re trying to make Texas like Ohio. Why would you do that?

MOORE: Thank you.

BECK: I mean, other than the lovely weather in Ohio .

MOORE: Right. Well, Glenn, you`re a businessman, so you can appreciate this.

Ohio has the highest business tax virtually in the country except for New York. They have these union policies that allow the unions to run the state. They have got a runaway budget, they`ve got big budget deficits.

Now, in Texas, just the opposite. No income tax.

Now, what state do you want to locate your business in, Ohio or Texas?

BECK: Real quick, because I`ve got to go to Ohio here in a second.


BECK: But I just want you to comment on this real quick.

NAFTA, both Barack Obama and Clinton hammering NAFTA. Canada comes out and says, oh really? You want to rip up NAFTA?

MOORE: Right.

BECK: We won`t sell you any oil. They`re our number one importer of oil.

What would that mean to the economy?

MOORE: Oh, it would hurt the economy a lot. Look, Texas shows how NAFTA has really helped the economy. But the big story here, Glenn, is that Obama has a little bit of scandal going on here because he`s told the voters of Ohio, I`m going to get rid of NAFTA, renegotiate it, while he`s whispering to friends in Canada, don`t listen to what I say, I`m not going to stick with NAFTA.

Well, this is a guy who`s whole (INAUDIBLE) is, I mean what I say, but he`s saying two things out of different sides of his mouth.


Let me go to Joel Hallett. He`s the chief political reporter for "The Columbus Dispatch."

On this very issue, is that the way it feels on the ground there in Ohio, that he`s been saying one thing and doing another? Because his explanation is, I didn`t even know that that meeting happened.

JOE HALLETT, "THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH": Well, the Clinton people are saying so, and I think they might have made some hey with it. In the exit polling you had that showed that she`s up 16 points with white male voters is telling. I didn`t expect that number.

There are a lot of white, angry, unemployed union members in this state, and they blame NAFTA. Obama made NAFTA a centerpiece of his campaign and has been hammering Clinton in emails and direct email, saying that she`s waffled on this issue, she supported it in the past.

And now we find out that his chief economic adviser had a meeting with Canadian officials and said, apparently, according to memos, that this was all politics. And Clinton just yesterday, hurried up a 60-second radio ad across Ohio to take advantage of that, saying, OK, Ohio voters, Obama`s saying one thing to you and he`s telling the Canadian officials...

BECK: How do you think the ad played to the people? Was there enough time for people to hear it? And what was the reaction in Ohio to it?

HALLETT: Well, it was a good ad. It was an effective ad, but I think you raise a good point, because I don`t know if there was enough time. She just got it up mid-afternoon yesterday.

BECK: Yes.

HALLETT: So -- so but something is moving those white males toward her, because it`s not been happying elsewhere.


Joe, thank you very much.

Let me go to Amy here.

I mean, it was a bad week for Barack Obama in many ways.

AMY HOLMES, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it certainly was with his Canada flap. But, you know, I would make the point that Hillary Clinton better hope that it was a NAFTA issue that put her over the top with white male voters, because if it was that telephone ad, the national security issue, John McCain can out national security in a general every single day of the week. So, if it was that issue for her, then that`s the winning one

PETER FENN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: A couple of points on that. That ad, of course, was not played in Ohio. It was just played in Texas, although it was played...

HOLMES: Played in the national media, yes.

FENN: Right.

But look, this is so interesting, these exit poll numbers. Three times as many people cited the economy as Iraq or health care. I mean, it was...


HOLMES: Because people -- right.

FENN: And then the 91 percent wrong track and these people are worried. Two hundred and twenty thousand jobs loss. And they say, look, it`s because the jobs that we had, the manufacturing jobs, of which over half of them were manufacturing jobs, have gone to Canada or Mexico. It was NAFTA.

HOLMES: But also, Peter, if you look at then also the labor unions and which way they were going, Hillary Clinton got AFL-CIO, which are the jobs in Ohio that have been lost and sent overseas -- or to Texas, as Steve was saying, where Barack Obama was getting the service employees, and he`s getting teamsters, teamsters who benefit from that stuff.

FENN: But this is what you folks were talking about, and I think this is absolutely -- angry white male, we can call it that.


FENN: They`re angry, and they`re white and they`re black and they`re Hispanics.

BECK: Yes.

FENN: And they think that they have less purchasing power than they did seven years ago, and they`re right.

BECK: They do.

FENN: They think that their gas prices are going to $4 a gallon and the president of the United States doesn` t even acknowledge it.

HOLMES: College tuition is going up, home values...

BECK: Hang on just a second.

FENN: And so it is about the economy, stupid, as 1992...

BECK: But you know what?


FENN: Get with the program on tax cuts for the middle class, help with the middle class, doing things that...

HOLMES: But, Peter, tax cuts for those small business owners who create jobs for those people.


BECK: I lost control of the program.

FENN: We don`t need you. We`re fine over here.

BECK: Lets me go to Jonathan Allen her real quick.

Go ahead. Chime in here, Jonathan.

JONATHAN ALLEN, "CONGRESSIONAL QUARTERLY": Glenn, I was in eastern Ohio yesterday, in Youngstown and Warren. And I heard voters saying that they blamed Bill Clinton and also Hillary Clinton for NAFTA and the loss of jobs. And they were going to vote for her anyway, because they believed that Bill Clinton was better for the economy during the `90s than George Bush was in the early -- in the 2000s. And whether that makes sense or not, that`s how voters were talking in Youngstown and Warren yesterday.

HOLMES: Well, can I ask a question about that? Because the choice on the ballot is not Hillary versus Bush. It`s Hillary versus Obama. So why the preference for Hillary?

ALLEN: Folks said that they trusted Bill Clinton, and transferably to Hillary Clinton on the economy, despite the NAFTA issue.


We`ll be back in just a second.

And something on the top of my to-do list, and I bet it`s on yours as well for the next president, illegal immigration. We`ll talk about it and how it plays a role in this election, next.



BECK: This is exactly why I love you so much, because you`re no nonsense, and you put people behind bars.

All of the candidates, Sheriff, say that they have a comprehensive plan and they`re going to secure the borders.

Do you buy that bull crap from any of them?

SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA: Not really. I have to look at the dictionary. All I hear is "comprehensive." I don`t know what that means.

But, you know, secure the border, everybody knows that. But what happens when they cross the border? Nobody talks about it.

You should put them in jail. They violated a law. And those that are here illegally, I don`t believe in amnesty. We should take care of them, too, and send them back. That`s my philosophy, and we have been doing it in this county.

BECK: And Gary, this kind of goes to the -- I hate to use the words "the angry white man," because it sounds like it`s an angry white man. Really what it is, is a frustrated, disenfranchised, disconnected American, somebody who says, wait a minute, I don`t hate Hispanics, I want a secure border, one on the north and one on the south. Why can`t we get it done?

This is the kind of thing that you have been talking about.

GARY HUBBELL, COLUMNIST, "ASPEN TIMES WEEKLY": Well, and it`s been interesting. The commentary I`ve gotten from people -- look, I wrote the column. I titled it "The Angry White Man." But I`ve had people respond to me and say, "I agree with everything you said, except I`m an angry brown man," "I`m a Filipino," or "I`m a Chippewa Indian," or "I`m an angry white woman."

I`ve had hundreds and hundreds of comments like that. And so people -- people know what I meant.

BECK: Right.

HUBBELL: It wasn`t meant to slander people. It was to say, look, this is what America`s about. Let`s tighten things up.

BECK: So, Sheriff, give me the -- give me the feel in Arizona for this election. What is happening with the people in Arizona where we`re facing three candidates from both parties where you don`t really believe that any of them are going to actually secure the border?

ARPAIO: Well, I don`t know about securing the border. They all talk about it, but that`s our problem.

Unfortunately, everybody running for president, they do not want to offend a certain ethnic group. That seems to be off the table.

We don`t hear about illegal immigration anymore in these campaigns. Do we? And I`m a little frustrated about that.

This should not go away. We should continue to enforce the illegal immigration laws. So, here in Arizona, at least they like what this sheriff is doing. And we`re the only ones doing certain aspects of this problem.

BECK: You know, I`m interested in seeing the exit polls in Ohio for Republicans. Those who went out and vote said, what`s the most important issue? Nineteen percent in Ohio said illegal immigration. In Texas, it was 15 percent.

Now, what happened to the passion for people on both sides of the aisle? This is an important issue. What happened? Any theory on that?

ARPAIO: Well, one theory is that the economy has taken over. But that should not be a copout. We should still go after illegal immigration.

BECK: You know what? Gary, maybe you can explain it.

In Texas, the sheriff just said the economy, but the economy is 25 percent. Terrorism is 23 percent. Twenty-one percent is Iraq, and 15 percent is illegal immigration -- in Texas.

HUBBELL: I think people are still seething about illegal immigration. I think people are terribly upset about it. And I think candidates who ignore that do so at their own peril.

BECK: Let me -- let me -- I was just handed a note. We have audio from a Hillary interview that she just did with the same affiliate that we brought you the audio from with her husband. We`re going to get it to you in just a second. She`s basically saying the same thing that her husband did at the top of the hour.

Do you have the full screen of what her husband said?

Her husband basically said, we`re going to fight for those delegates in Florida and in Michigan. She just did another interview with this same affiliate, and she`s sounding -- she`s singing the same song.

What does that do? I mean, here we are talking about disenfranchisement. What does that do to the American people if they come out and they vote, or they fight for these delegates and try to change the rules here at the end?

HOLMES: Well, I think it pulls the Democratic Party apart.

But getting back to Gary`s point about the angry white male, I will show you the front page of "The Washington Post" here. It is all about women.

Two women, so much more than just a candidate. And it`s this whole long (INAUDIBLE) piece about women, do they vote their gender, do they vote their race? Do you see a cover about white males in the Democratic Party?


HOLMES: Are they voting their gender or their race? The reason is why -- the reason why is because white males are so often depicted as either sexist or bigots. So who would be trying court their vote?

And I think Americans are sick of it. I think they are sick of all of the categorizations by the media that you have to be in this left wing group, you have to be a part of this ethnic group.

BECK: Yes.

This is why we say on this program the answer is always, we, the people. And the idea is -- I mean, it says right here, vote American. Forget about everything else. It`s vote American.

We`ve got 30 seconds.

Erica, can you bring us any additional information on what we are talking about here in the exit polls?

HILL: Yes. Well, I can tell you, going back to immigration, actually, some interesting points to bring up here.

In Texas, looking really quickly when you compare what Democrats and Republicans want, Democrats say the best thing to do is a path to citizenship.

Over on the GOP side, they say the best answer to illegal immigration is to deport those who are here illegally -- Glenn.


BECK: Well, it is going to be a long and relentless evening. And we`ll be here all evening. We`re going the take a break and we`ll be back at 9:00 tonight.

I want to go first to my radio producer, Stu Burguiere, who`s now out at my Radio City studios in midtown Manhattan in Rockefeller Plaza.

Hello, Stu.


BECK: Good. You`re doing a live blog thing tonight which...


BECK: That`s always good stuff.

BURGUIERE: It`s like, you know, Glenn, I think what people are thinking is, what the Internet needs is another opinion from a guy you have never heard of.

BECK: Yes.

BURGUIERE: So, we`re providing that tonight.

BECK: All right.

Actually, I do want to talk to you about a couple of things.

First of all, we did a recent poll at And we did one right after we thought John McCain was going to become the nominee. And we said, "How many people will vote for John McCain if you`re a conservative, how many will just cast your vote or not vote at all, or vote for somebody else?" And the number was pretty high of conservatives that would not vote for John McCain.

BURGUIERE: Yes, conservatives were very angry at McCain being nominated. At the very beginning, just a month ago...

BECK: Right.

BURGUIERE: ... it was 49 percent said they would vote for a third party or not vote at all. And only 33 percent said they`d hold their nose and vote for McCain.

BECK: OK. What is it now?

BURGUIERE: Well, it`s completely switched. Fifty-six percent say now they`ll just hold their nose and suck it up and vote for John McCain.

BURGUIERE: And only 23 percent say they`ll go third party. And, you know, obviously the main reason for that, at least so far, is, thank God for "The New York Times" if you`re John McCain.

BECK: Stu, do you really think that it is? Because you know me. I was one of those that I could not vote for John McCain.


BECK: Now the more I learn about Barack Obama -- but maybe that`s the problem, because, you know, I said at the time, I don`t want to vote for the lesser of evils. I want to vote for a guy I want to win. And the more I learn about Barack Obama, the more I think, oh, dear god, we`re in trouble with this man. But really nothing has changed. I feel the same way about John McCain.

BURGUIERE: Yes. Well, I think people are making just a comparative judgment, and they`re just saying, like, oh, my God, I just -- I mean, you know, maybe even long term it`s better for McCain to be out there. But short term, I just can`t give up.

BECK: Yes.

BURGUIERE: There`s too much going on.

BECK: So what is the -- and what`s happening with Hillary Clinton?

BURGUIERE: Well, I mean, it`s interesting, because two weeks ago, just two weeks ago, we were told that these are the firewall states for Hillary Clinton. She`s got to win Ohio and Texas.

Even Bill Clinton was coming out and saying that. Now, it`s like, oh, well, if she wins one of them, or maybe if she only loses in Rhode Island by 18 or less, then she`s going to stay in.

BECK: Right. We were actually -- first of all, she`s staying in no matter what.


BECK: I don`t think she`s -- I mean, these people don`t lose and lose well. I think she`s staying in one way or another. If you missed the exclusive audio that we had from one of our radio affiliates, we played it earlier of Bill Clinton saying just this morning they are mounting a campaign to make sure that those Florida and Michigan delegates are counted which would go to Hillary Clinton and change everything.

Also, you are doing the blog, but more importantly, people can write to you with their opinions. And I`ve specifically asked the radio audience, I want to hear things -- I want to hear from you on things that -- you`re sitting there on your couch -- you know, on your couch, in your underpants, and you are shouting at the TV. I want to hear those.

So, if you would collect those for us and bring them back after 9:00, I`d appreciate it, Stu.

BURGUIERE: Absolutely. No problem.

BECK: You`ll find the connection to the blog and what Stu is doing at

From New York, goodnight. But we`ll be back at 9:00. A fresh batch of mistakes, so tune in then.

We`ll see you then.