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Honest Questions about the End of Days
Aired April 25, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
GLENN BECK, HOST (voice-over): Hillary Clinton says she will retaliate with force against Iran if they attack Israel. Then Russian President Vladimir Putin embraces one religion. Jimmy Carter meets with Hamas to forge Middle East peace.
JIMMY CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If there is success between Abu Mazen and the prime minister of Israel...
BECK: Could these current world events be signs that we`re closer to the end of days?
Author Joel Rosenberg, hailed as a modern Nostradamus, has a new book out. It`s called "Dead Heat." It takes you inside a presidential race and asks what role, if any, does the U.S. play in the last days? It may be fiction, but tonight it will seem a little more real.
Tonight, honest questions about the end of days, with Joel Rosenberg for the full hour.
BECK: Well, hello, America.
I -- it`s one of these shows that -- I mean, this puts me into Crazytown. It really does. I want to spend a full hour with you talking about stuff that people just don`t talk about. You know? Because the people who talk about it and think, jeez, some of these things look familiar in the news today. Could we be at the end of the day? You know, or end of days?
The chaos in the world looks eerily familiar. And somebody who has written about current events in his novels and knows how it relates to Bible prophecy is Joel Rosenberg. He is the founder of the Joshua Fund and author of "Dead Heat," a work of fiction that veers scarily close to fact, I think.
In fact, let me just give some of the -- some of the things that you have not really -- you wouldn`t call these predictions. I mean, you`re not Nostradamus.
JOEL ROSENBERG, AUTHOR, "DEAD HEAT": No.
BECK: Yes, you`re just -- you`re writing about them because they make sense, right?
BECK: You have written -- about nine months before 9/11, you said -- you wrote a story that had a kamikaze plane attack on a U.S. city. Five months before there was actual war with Iraq, you had a story line that included war with Saddam.
Arabian leader vowing to annihilate Israel and Russia and Iran forming an unprecedented military alliance, this one happened the date of publishing the book. Right?
ROSENBERG: Right. Right.
BECK: And I know what books are like. I mean, I`ve got a book coming out this Christmas. It`s due next week.
BECK: The death of Yasser Arafat, radical Islamic terrorist, trying to seize the West Bank and Gaza. Thirteen months later, Arafat was dead and that`s exactly what they did.
Does it ever spook you that...?
ROSENBERG: It does. I don`t know what you`re going to say. But yes.
BECK: You know, it must spook you that you -- you feel like, this is the logical thing. If I know prophecy and, this should happen. And you write about it. And then it does.
ROSENBERG: Yes. Because when people say, "You`re basing your political thrillers on Bible prophecy." But, Yasser Arafat isn`t mentioned in Bible prophecy.
ROSENBERG: Saddam Hussein isn`t; kamikazes aren`t. No, that`s true. So I start with end-times Bible prophecies and I say, "OK, these are things we know. Now let`s back them up and say what`s a plausible geopolitical scenario that gets us from where we are today..."
ROSENBERG: "... to where these prophecies are?" And then I just do some guess work. I mean, I`m not trying to predict it. This is the way it`s going to happen. I`m just saying this is a way it could happen. Because I think a good political thriller starts with "what if"? What if these events the Bible says will happen, happens in our lifetime?
BECK: I don`t know if you`ve ever heard of a guy named Vilakovsky, but he was a discredited scientist, you know, some of it wrongly so, back in the 30s and 40s.
And what he did was he said, "Let`s stop dismissing the Bible. Why don`t we look at the scriptures, sacred scriptures from all over the world. Instead of saying, he couldn`t have parted the Red Sea, why don`t we look for natural causes that may have caused those things? Was there anything else that was happening on the planet at the same time in somebody else`s religious scripture that might tie into these things?"
And I think that`s the problem with scriptures. So many people just dismiss it. Oh, well that`s nothing but, you know, spooky stuff or whatever. They dismiss it. Instead of saying, "OK, I read Revelations, I read Ezekiel," they were describing it in the terms that they understood at the time.
BECK: So what could cause those things today? And unfortunately, today there`s a lot of those things.
ROSENBERG: There certainly are.
BECK: That are coming our way. And it`s the -- is it the first time really -- people have been talking about this for 2,000 years. The first time, really, that we can say -- a lot of the big ones are now in play?
ROSENBERG: Absolutely. You know, we say on Passover, why is this night different from all other nights? And people ask me, "Joel, why is this period of history different from all other periods of history?"
I mean, Jesus said, "In the last days there will be wars, rumors of wars, earthquakes, famine." We`ve had that for all of the last 2,000 years. So why is this period different? And the answer is Israel.
The only document on the face of the planet that said Israel would be reborn as a country in the last days and Jews would re-gather into the holy land after centuries of exile, was the Bible. And this Bible prophecy, most people in the world didn`t believe it. Actually, many Christians didn`t even believe it. It`s a whole replacement theology that got developed. God was done with the Jews.
But May 14, 1948, almost exactly 60 years ago, Israel was reborn. And now we`ve got a situation that makes this period of history different, because Israel is what Bible scholars call the super sign. The fact that it has been reborn sets into motion all of the other prophecies.
BECK: Right. You know the reason why I like you, Joel, is you`re normal. You`re a political guy. Your background was much more political. You`re not a Bible-thumping preacher or anything like that, right? What made you turn? What...
ROSENBERG: It wasn`t easy. I mean, first of all, failure. I had helped a lot of political candidates lose their elections. Helped Steve Forbes lose twice.
You know, I was on former Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu`s, comeback campaign team in 2000.
BECK: You were good.
ROSENBERG: Oh, yes. I worked for Natan Sharansky, the former deputy prime minister of Israel. He got so frustrated with politics he just retired completely.
So after that, I said to myself, "All right. I need to do something else with my life."
I had two tracks in my life, and I kept them separate. I had my political track. And I had my interest as an evangelical Christian studying Bible prophecy. My father`s family was orthodox Jewish and escaped out of Russia. My mother`s side is gentile, English.
But because of that Jewish background, because of my interest in the scriptures, and because Saddam Hussein in 1990 was invading Kuwait, and Babylon, that country was suddenly in the news again after thousand of years of not being in the news, all of these things were happening in two separate tracts.
Once I kind of got -- went through political detox -- I`m out, I`m clean. I`m going to do something else with my life.
ROSENBERG: I said, what do I really love? What I really love or I`m fascinated with is Bible prophecy and how it could come true in my lifetime. Since we`ve seen Israel come true -- come to pass, and since Jews are returning to the holy land.
And I thought, you know what? People say write the novel that you know. That`s not really true. I think you should write the novel where you live in your mind. Where I lived in my mind was "what if?" What if in my lifetime or the lifetime of my children this could happen? What would it look like? What would it feel like? Would I and my wife and kids have the courage to go through it?
BECK: When you first started writing it, then, was it more of a "what if" -- was it fiction? And now it`s more of -- don`t want to put words in your mouth -- more of a watchman on the wall kind of a Ezekiel 34 kind of thing?
ROSENBERG: It has accelerated into the second point, for sure. What happened was this prophecy of Ezekiel 38 and 39, where Russia will form an alliance with Iran and Libya and these other countries in the last days. I`d always been fascinated with that.
But I was on a plane from Washington, D.C., to New York City in the fall of 2000 with Natan Sharansky, the former deputy prime minister of Israel. And while we were chatting, I said to him -- we got chatting, and he said -- he started telling me the story of how, when Benjamin Netanyahu was the prime minister and Sharansky was a cabinet minister, Netanyahu sent him to Russia to meet with then KGB chief Vladimir Putin to talk about the threat of Russia selling nuclear technology and weapons to countries like Iran and Iraq. And that Netanyahu as prime minister was worried about a Russian-Iranian alliance, in particular.
Well, here is my political track. I`m just helping Sharansky get his message out. But now suddenly my prophetic side kind of clicked in. And I don`t mean I`m a prophet. I mean that -- my interest in prophecy. And I thought, "Wait a minute. Did he just say that the prime minister of Israel is getting worried about a Russian-Iranian military alliance? Because that has never happened in 2,500 years." And when that...
BECK: That`s Gog and Magog.
ROSENBERG: That`s Gog and Magog. That`s Ezekiel 38 and 39, which I thought for many years, I believe it`s going to be true. But that must be 1,000 years off. I mean, it`s not close to happening back in the 1990s when the Soviet Union was collapsing.
And that moment on that plane on the way to New York City, I began to think, "Wait a minute."
ROSENBERG: I might be living in a time where this could accelerate. I want to write a novel that looks at how this could play out.
BECK: OK. When we come back, we`re going to do a couple of things. We`re going to take you through the news of the day. We`re going to talk to you all about, you know, food and crisis, and political leaders, and what things might actually be coming our way. And what plays into the end of days.
All this week, by the way, Joel has been writing exclusive articles for the end of days, only available in my free daily e-mail newsletter. You can go over to GlennBeck.com and sign up. Get your free copy today at GlennBeck.com.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, the question was, if Iran were to launch a nuclear attack on Israel, what would our response be? And I want the Iranians to know that, if I`m the president, we will attack Iran. We would be able to totally obliterate them. That`s a terrible thing to say, but those people who run Iran need to understand that. Because that perhaps will deter them from doing something that would be reckless, foolish and tragic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECK: Continuing our conversation on end of -- on the end of days. And, you know, I know a lot of people are like, "Oh, jeez." This is really something you should listen to.
Author Joel Rosenberg grounds his stuff in reality that is important and accurate.
And that statement, Joel, we talked earlier this week -- that statement by Hillary Clinton is -- it shows, it demonstrates what so many people don`t understand. Ahmadinejad -- correct me if I`m wrong -- and the leadership, not the people but the leadership of Iran would almost welcome us to vaporize all of Iran, because it would fulfill their end-times prophecy that the Great Satan, known as us, just slaughters Muslims wholesale, right?
ROSENBERG: And vice versa. The -- Ahmadinejad is not a Soviet or Chinese leader who is a megalomaniac, maniacal dictator, but who wants to preserve his own skin because he doesn`t believe in an afterlife.
ROSENBERG: No. Ahmadinejad is a Shiite, Islamic fascist. He`s a Shiite Islamic fanatic. And what he believes is that you have -- his mission to create the conditions of global carnage and chaos. And into that -- that mass annihilation of Jews and Christians will come the Islamic messiah known as the Mahdi.
So when somebody says, "Look, if you nuke Israel, we`ll nuke you back." First of all, he thinks, "Good. That would create the conditions in which the messiah would come."
ROSENBERG: I also believe he believes that he was just chosen. You know, if he dies he`s going to spend eternity with 72 virgins, he believes. And he doesn`t think he`s going to die. He thinks he`s going to live. Because he thinks history is with him, that the wind is at his back. And that`s what makes him dangerous. That`s what makes him undeterrable.
How do you deter someone who believes it`s his God-given mission to annihilate the United States and Israel and Judeo-Christian civilization as we know it? That`s not like the Soviet era.
BECK: Right. The 12-ers -- and my head hurt -- like a year`s worth of research on all of this stuff to try to understand their theology. He`s a 12-er.
ROSENBERG: Yes, he is.
BECK: Which means that he believes in the 12 -- the coming of the 12th imam. These people were so dangerous -- correct me if I`m wrong -- that the Ayatollah Khomeini said, "Kill all the 12-ers. Get them out. I don`t want them in government. I don`t want them anywhere." And they went underground for a while.
ROSENBERG: It was a cult.
ROSENBERG: It was banned, because -- because Khomeini`s belief was you create paradise on earth.
ROSENBERG: Ahmadinejad and the 12-ers believe, no, no, you create chaos on earth and then paradise comes.
BECK: If I may explain this, again, in Christian terms. What that -- what this is, is we`ve all read about the tribulation. If you`re a Christian you`ve read about the tribulation. A 12-er`s perspective is -- well, Jesus comes at the end of the tribulation, and it`s only seven years, so let`s create the tribulation period. Let`s get it going. So seven years later Jesus is here.
ROSENBERG: Right. Christians know it`s going to happen, but you certainly don`t want to encourage it. It`s the worst-case scenario.
BECK: Jesus, if you`re watching, you can wait.
ROSENBERG: That`s right. Well, that`s right. And that`s what -- that`s what Senator Clinton misunderstands. She fundamentally misunderstands the nature of this particular regime, because it`s unlike any other regime in Iran`s history. It`s unlike any regime in all of history in any country. We`ve never seen this before.
BECK: OK. I know you have done briefings with the CIA. You`ve been to the Pentagon. You`ve done briefings at the White House. You`ve done briefings on all levels. I mean, I`ve talked to Benjamin Netanyahu about you. And he has told me that he understands what we`re facing. He has told me...
ROSENBERG: He did?
BECK: Yes, he gets it. Bush gets it.
ROSENBERG: I`ve not spoken to the president.
BECK: I have -- I have had sessions with him where I have gathered the impression that he understands the role of religion here and the times that we`re living in.
Ronald Reagan was one of those guys.
What is the percentage of people that -- that are controlling this situation, that are involved in this situation, that actually consider this to be something they should be concerned about?
ROSENBERG: Very few people in Washington have even heard of the biblical prophecies about Russia forming an alliance with Iran and Libya, Ezekiel 38 and 39 prophecies, much less any of the other Bible prophecies that you and I have been discussing all week.
And I make it clear when I get invited to speak at the Pentagon, at the White House or Congress. I`m not there to persuade them of something. I really think it`s important that I, who was a political guy and not there as a lobbyist. Hey you should believe these are end of days and here`s what`s going to happen and here`s what you should do. I really don`t do that. I just want them to be educated and be aware of, as a backdrop.
And they`re inviting me. I mean, I have not gone knocking on the door of the Pentagon or members of Congress. But there is a growing interest. Why? Because everyone in Washington is beginning to realize that they don`t really understand what`s happening in the Middle East. Events are -- are accelerating in a way that nobody expected them to go.
BECK: Condi Rice said about a year ago, and it made me break out in cold sweat when I first heard her say it. She said what we`re seeing now are birth pangs in the Middle East. That is specific language. Do you think she meant it? Explain what that language is implied...
ROSENBERG: Jesus was asked on the Mount of Olives by his disciples in Israel, overlooking Jerusalem, "When are you coming back? And what should we be watching for?" And he gave a list. He could have given a very Washington political answer, "No comment. Next question." But he gives a list: wars, rumors of war, all the things we`ve been talking about.
And he says the wars and the terrorism, this is all the birth pangs. These are the beginnings of what`s coming. Just as my wife who`s had four children.
ROSENBERG: You can see as you get closer.
BECK: They get closer.
ROSENBERG: The contractions, they`re more intense and closer together. That`s what we are seeing.
Now, she is an evangelical Christian. I have no idea if Secretary Rice has an interest in Bible prophecy. I don`t know whether she planned to use that language in the context of the Middle East. But boy, it really was evocative of exactly what Jesus said would happen.
BECK: You said a minute ago, you`re not going up to the Hill, and you`re trying to campaign for it or anything like that.
You know, I don`t know, if we`re -- nobody knows if we`re living in the end times. I personally, to be real frank with you, I think my kids will be here. I don`t know if I will be. But I think my kids will be here.
But nobody knows. They`ve been saying this for thousands of years. I don`t want to be the guy who says -- I`d much rather -- honestly, it would be much easier for me, and I`d be, you know, more popular and everything else, if I got you on and I made fun of you for an hour.
Do you want to be the guy who says, "Hey, pay attention. This could be something you should watch"?
ROSENBERG: I didn`t. I didn`t. But -- and that`s why I began writing novels. I didn`t think anyone would take this seriously if I just said -- wrote a nonfiction book and said, "This is what it is." So I wrote novels. They have started to come true. People have shown interest.
ROSENBERG: That`s where I am.
BECK: They are absolutely phenomenal. The latest is "Dead Heat" by Joel Rosenberg. Grab it.
More -- more right around the corner. Stick around.
BECK: Full hour of conversation tonight about the end of days. And I encourage you to listen and read "Dead Heat" by Joel Rosenberg. Joel is my guest for the full hour.
Let me -- I just want to go through a laundry list of a couple of things. First of all, Putin, is it possible he`s Gog?
ROSENBERG: It`s possible. There -- Ezekiel 38 says that a dictator with an evil intent will rise to power in Russia and form military alliances all throughout the Middle East. That`s certainly what Putin is doing. Is he Gog? Too early to say. He`s certainly Gog-esque.
BECK: OK. He`s Gog-esque. Very nice.
But we do know that it`s very specific that Russia and Iran are supposed to have ties.
BECK: And that`s never happened before?
ROSENBERG: In 2,500 years since the prophecy was written, Russia and Iran have never had an alliance until today.
BECK: OK. And then, also, there`s prophecy about Russia and Libya?
ROSENBERG: Absolutely. Same -- Ezekiel 38. And that`s right. We`ve never -- you know, Russia had an alliance with Libya in the `70s and `80s. But that was disbanded. But now Vladimir Putin has just literally visited Libya just last week and in April of 2008 to sign a multibillion-dollar arms deal.
BECK: OK. I remember when I was a kid. And you know, we`d read the Bible and we`d talk about the different, you know, prophecies in it, et cetera, et cetera. And I remember very clearly, cashless society. That you, you know -- it would be numbered and chipped and everything else.
I actually spoke to one of the guys who helped develop the chips, and he was fine with it. And, you know, it was for tracking dogs and everything else. When he got to the point to where they were thinking, "Hey, this would be good to put in the hand of somebody to be able to track your children so they can`t be kidnapped. And oh, my gosh we can put it with the RFID, so you can go in and buy stuff."
When he started telling me this story, he broke down in tears and he said, "I quit that day, because I knew what I was" -- I`m not saying that this is what the technology is used for today.
BECK: But it is appearing to be the technology that has been predicted for thousands of years.
ROSENBERG: That`s right.
BECK: What are the other things that you see that we thought were insane when we were growing up that are starting to happen?
ROSENBERG: Well, one of them is global satellite television technology. There are several places in the Bible -- one is in Ezekiel 38, the other place is in Revelation -- where the Bible says certain events, very specifically defined events, will be seen by the whole world.
Well, you know that was not possible 2,500 years ago. It wasn`t possible 50 years ago. Now, with global satellite television technology you can watch an event like a war with Israel, or you can watch two people being slaughtered in Jerusalem, as Revelations describes, and the whole world could be watching simultaneously. That`s never happened. That`s just another example.
BECK: Does it concern you at all -- we only have 45 seconds. Does it concern you at all that the third temple is really ready? I mean, most of it is sitting in a warehouse. I mean, they got everything ready to go.
ROSENBERG: Architectural plans are done. The clothes for the priests are being, being sewn. All of the implements for the temple sacraments are being done.
BECK: And, the red heifer was -- is this true? That the red heifer, they have to make the ashes of blah, blah, blah, of a red heifer. Couldn`t find a red heifer, and now they`re just being born all over.
ROSENBERG: Well, they`re actually being genetically engineered right now, because you need an absolutely perfect one. One was born a few years ago called Melody. She turned out to have a few hairs that were flawed. And so they said that`s not the one. A perfect one has to be born and then, once that happens, it will be sacrificed and the temple will be ready to be built.
BECK: But not born yet.
BECK: Cattle futures.
More in just a second.
BECK: Welcome back. I am joined by the author of a fantastic novel, it`s called "Dead Heat" Joel Rosenberg writes about the kind of stuff that, you know, I happen to watch for. And makes me the mayor of crazy town. But I think it makes him the president of crazy USA. The current chaos in the Middle East and the world. Let`s try to cover as many things as we can. First of all, Iraq. Everybody is covering the bad news in Iraq. You say, Iraq, this isn`t political speak, you are saying that Bible prophecy says, iraq is going to get very, very good.
JOEL ROSENBERG, AUTHOR, "DEAD HEAT": Yeah, it`s interesting. I just spent nine days Iraq a month ago. Traveled through five provinces without armed guard, without armored personnel carriers, without Apache helicopters. You can drive around in Iraq. You need some interpreters. Things are getting better there. The Bible says, Iraq known in Bible days as Babylon, will not only emerge in the last days it will emerge as the wealthiest, most peaceful, powerful nation on the face of the planet. The question is how do we get from the chaos there has been over the last few years to the wealthiest country in the planet in the last days. Something must get better. So I`m saying to all the nay sayers who are saying we cannot win, apparently we do win. By the way I think we are winning. The problem is if we pull out too quickly there could be a disaster. But I think we are heading in the right direction and we can have confidence it gets better.
BECK: I don`t know. You may have convinced me maybe I am all of a sudden for a quick pullout. If it has to get better before everything comes.
ROSENBERG: To beep clear and full disclosure, Babylon then becomes the center of the antichrist in the end. It gets better and then gets much, much worse. So people ask me are we making Iraq safe for the antichrist or safe for democracy. And it`s a little bit of both.
BECK: That`s the interesting thing about, your book when I read it. It is such a -- such a different look at Iraq. I mean, at one point in your book you explain in, in one way, why we are not ever mentioned as the, as a country or a force at all in end times prophecy. It`s because America is taken out, New York and several other cities are vaporized.
ROSENBERG: We don`t know that biblically for sure. In the novel looks at what could happen. It clearly isn`t in ends time prophecy.
BECK: In the book -- in the book you were trying to explain.
ROSENBERG: I`m trying to look at why we are not there.
BECK: Correct. Got you. Yeah, so then.
ROSENBERG: I want to be clear.
BECK: Yeah. So Iraq plays such a huge role and it`s so wealthy and everything else. That in your book you say because New York is vapor ides, the president, head of the UN is out and Iraq comes and says why don`t you, why don`t you build the UN here?
ROSENBERG: Absolutely. Who knows if that is how it will happen. We know because of Revelation, Jeremiah, Ezekial, Isaiah, all the prophets make it clear. Babylon, Iraq, becomes the center of world attention along with Israel in the final days of the last days. What`s interesting, Glenn, for 2,000 years, Israel and Iraq did not exist. How could they be the centerpieces of all human attention if the two countries didn`t exist? Now they do. Now they`re dominating our headlines.
BECK: And Saddam Hussein was building or rebuilding ancient Babylon. You have Ahmadinejad actually building roads from where they say the -- the well is where the 12th Imam. Right? Where the well from the 12th Imam is going to come out of this well. And they`re building road that point to Babylon. So, he is, he is making a path from where the 12th Imam is coming out to the seat of power. These people really believe this stuff.
ROSENBERG: Islamic theology, particularly Shiite theology is an many ways a mirror image of Judeo-Christian theology and end times prophecies. Meaning so many details are the same except they`re just the opposite. In this case, in the Bible, the messiah does come into the Middle East, but Jesus comes to Jerusalem. In Islamic theology he comes to Iraq and sets up his global empire out of Iraq.
BECK: Can I ask you a really politically incorrect question?
BECK: If Islamic theology, as it is interpreted over in Iraq, if it is showing the opposite, showing the center of power is where Christian theology says is the seat of the antichrist, how do you -- don`t want to put words in your mouth.
ROSENBERG: The mirror image. The Muslims say the antichrist comes to Jerusalem. And Christians, Jews, say the antichrist comes to Iraq. And they look -- and -- Muslims say the messiah comes to Iraq. And Jews and Christians say the messiah comes to Jerusalem.
BECK: I understand that. But one of them, then .
ROSENBERG: Is wrong.
BECK: Is not wrong. Evil. One would be preaching evil. It would be holding up the side of evil.
ROSENBERG: That`s right. Well, that`s right. Look -- we probably don`t have time to get into the -- the details of the theology. One of the things that is interesting I believe, radical Islam will not ultimately be the engine of which out of which the antichrist emerges. Daniel Chapter 9 says the antichrist will be of Roman origin. We can explain that in more detail if you like. What`s interesting is there is no question that Iraq is the center of the antichrist reign of power, according to Jewish and Christian theology.
And Muslims are creating Iraq as the center of world power. But Ezekiel 38 and 39 which is a series of wars that happened before the end of the end, describes the Islamic world as being destroyed by fire from heaven. So while there is the makings, the feelings that maybe this is all preparing for an Islamic antichrist, I actually believe that Ezekiel 38 and 39, the war of Gog and Magog describes the end of radical Islam as we know it which will be replaced by a far worse, if you can believe it, ideology that will be embraced by the antichrist.
BECK: I have to tell you, the antichrist can`t be obvious. And he has to be like Ryan Seacrest.
ROSENBERG: Now, now.
BECK: Who would see Ryan Seacrest coming? You`d be like, he`s the antichrist. That`s what the antichrist is going to be like.
ROSENBERG: My kids would not like the analogy there. They`re big fans of "American Idol."
Look, there is no question the antichrist figure that the Bible describes, both Jewish and Christian theology, doesn`t look evil. He will not come with an organ going ennnh ennh ennh.
He looks, he is a charmer. A diplomat. Somebody who understands the economy and the global sphere and wins people, wins some character.
BECK: Isn`t there? What is the prophecy where, he is going to basically feed the world. The world is going to be starving to death.
ROSENBERG: No commerce can be done without his approval. He will be, he will be seen as an economic genius, a foreign policy genius. And he will emerge out of Europe. Because Daniel chapter 9 says, the prince, who is to come, the antichrist, will come from people who destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple. The Temple was destroyed, Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 A.D. by the Romans. We are looking for someone of a reconstituted Roman Empire who emerges. What`s interesting about that? Not saying by name, just interesting.
BECK: You`re saying Sophia Loren. That`s what I heard. I think that`s what America heard.
ROSENBERG: What is interesting, however, after the Second Lebanon War where was the peace conference held? In Rome. What`s interesting. Who is leading the middle east peacekeepers by the united nations forces in Lebanon? That`s the Italians out of Rome. The first time that Rome has gotten back involved in the Middle East since almost 2,000 years ago. Well, 1,600 years ago the collapse of the Roman Empire. We are watching Europe reconstitute. Borderless crossings. One currency. One foreign policy czar. One economic and political structure. And how was the E.U. created? By the Treaty of Rome. Back in the late 1950s.
So, all of the people who said, well, Rome, that`s not really going to come back in the end times. No, no. That couldn`t possibly happen. How could Europe reconstitute itself after World War I, World War II, you know the Cold War, the Holocaust? We`re watching it happen actually right now.
BECK: You don`t think it`s actually necessarily Rome but the E.U?
ROSENBERG: Well I think eventually Rome will be the center of the E.U. How is that going to happen? I don`t know. There is a lot I don`t know. The point is the Bible laid out some details it doesn`t give us all the details.
BECK: Is it true that we -- we haven`t bombed parts of Iraq because of, not only the historic significance, but the biblical significance of -- of Babylon?
ROSENBERG: Babylon itself, Babylon is a province, it`s also a city, but there is no one living in current Babylon, it`s being reconstructed. There is no question American forces were very careful about bombing in the area. However there was some archaeological destruction as troops were coming in and out of there. That was a problem.
But I interviewed for my previous book, "Epicenter," a nonfiction book, "Epicenter," you and I have talked about it. I interviewed the chief economic adviser to the current prime minister of Iraq and I said "The New York Times" and others are reporting you have a plan to rebuild Babylon as a cultural epicenter. He said absolutely. He walked me through the plans they have to rebuild the city. They believe cultural tourism in Iraq will be the second largest money producer after oil, two, three, four, five years down the road.
Now, right now it`s almost impossible to imagine people going on a vacation to Iraq.
BECK: Oh, no. Come to Iraq. I mean .
ROSENBERG: I just went there. My family thought I was crazy, president of Crazytown. But look, the Bible says that is what will happen. People will come from all over the world. Revelation describes all the merchants of the earth are coming to Iraq. That`s not that far off I don`t think.
BECK: We`ll be back with Joel Rosenberg in a minute. Remember the only way you can get an exclusive contact from Joel on the end of days is to head over to glennbeck.com, sign up for my free daily newsletter, 100 percent free. Loaded with original content. Get your copy today and pass it on from glennbeck.com.
BECK: We are back with "New York Times" best-selling author Joel Rosenberg. We`re talking about the end of days. Oh, yeah. You have entered crazytown. It all stems from a great book called "Dead Heat" That I think I read three, four weeks ago when it came out. It`s absolutely fantastic. I urge you to read it especially if you are a fan of the "Left Behind" series which was very, very good. This is rooted in the news of the day. And you kind of show how quickly -- and how easy these prophecies are to fulfill and get us to the end of days. Ever spook you? Does it ever?
ROSENBERG: It does. The first line as you saw, author`s note in "Dead Heat" is I pray to God this never comes true. Because people think that because previous fictional elements of my political thrillers have seemed to come true that maybe I am trying to predict these events. I am not. And "Dead Heat" is a worse case scenario not a world I want to see or think will happen. It is a world I fear could happen if we get our eye off the ball of the threats that face our country. Whether in the last days or not. I believe we are in the last days. The threats are very real today. The threat of nuclear terrorism in particular.
BECK: Do you believe, do you believe that -- that you will see the end of days?
ROSENBERG: I could. And I fear that I will. Look, it`s not something I am looking forward to. I would rather have a much longer period of time to raise my children and to bless the poor and the needy and care for victims of war and terrorism. My wife and I have started an organization, called the Joshua Fund. Why? Because we are writing abut war and terrorism. People are suffering right now. I would love it if we had, 40 or 50 years or more just to do this and care for people as an evangelical Christian I think that is my job and my mission. But I also see these signs coming and I think, look, I don`t want to look like I`m hyperventilating but if you think you see a storm coming and you work for the National Weather Service and you don`t tell people, hey, Katrina is coming you might want to pay attention. And get to safety. You know, you can`t stop the storm. But you will face God one day and have to say I did nothing. I don`t want to do that.
BECK: Ezekiel 34 says in those days he will appoint a watchman or appoint a watchman and watchmen and I think there is plenty of people around now that are in places that they just -- they`re on the wall and they see. They`re like, oh, my gosh. And for as crazy as it may sound, you know, we`re probably all wrong. But it says specifically there, if you see it coming, and you are in that position, and you don`t turn around and warn the people that this might be it -- it says the blood of their, their blood will be on your hands.
ROSENBERG: That`s right.
BECK: But if you warned them and they haven`t listened, oh, well, sucks to be you.
ROSENBERG: The question is how do you warn people without looking like a lunatic? I started with fiction. I said, let`s just imagine this, this world.
BECK: Do people, so a lot of people think you are a lunatic?
ROSENBERG: They`re not writing to me. The ones that are inviting me to speak are at Congress, in the Pentagon, I`ve met with Muslim leaders, people in charge of tens of thousands of mosques in their country they invited me for dinner at their homes and have come to my home. I am amazed how many military leaders, political leaders, diplomats in DC as well as around the world, want to sit down quietly off the record and talk about these things.
BECK: I think there is - I think people have a misunderstanding. I think there are more people that believe in this kind of stuff. And maybe they don`t even think it is end of times. Probably it`s not. I don`t know.
ROSENBERG: It is.
BECK: But they -- but they -- they have a gut feeling. It is almost like the -- the economy. You know, everybody`s been saying, oh, we are fine. Oh, don`t worry about it. People`s gut feeling, they knew, they knew this wasn`t good. And I think they can look at the world events and go, this isn`t good.
ROSENBERG: No. You look at the trajectory of world events. The chaos that is going on in the world, the alliances that are forming. But also you see it in Hollywood in the films, you see it in the films that are the biggest block busters and "Lord of the Rings" set in Middle Earth. What is it about? The return of the king? Cataclysmic forces, clashes of good and evil, a king is coming to rescue the world. You see it in "Independence Day", you see it in "War of the World" the Narnia series, the biggest block busters, "Star Wars" the biggest are about the cataclysmic cosmic clashes between good and evil and people making choices. Am I going to be good? Or am I going to succumb to the dark side as it were.
And the theme of my dead heat and novels to misunderstand the nature and threat of evil is to risk being blindsided by it.
BECK: Because most evil doesn`t show up in big black boots with a cape and a helmet.
ROSENBERG: That`s right. We were blindsided by Pearl Harbor.
BECK: I don`t understand how people were Nazis. I really don`t. I look at the uniform, the black, skull, cross bones, and like. Walk in and say you want to join. I would look at the uniform and, I think that`s the wrong side.
ROSENBERG: You had British prime ministers going in and hugging and kissing Adolf Hitler and trying to offer him everything in terms of chamberlain. Now you have Jimmy Carter kissing leaders like the Hamas leaders, whose hands are literally dripping with blood. There are people in our world today and unfortunately in our political system. They do not believe in evil. They have the modern, western, secular mind set. They don`t believe evil exists. They are exactly the ones who are in danger of getting blindsided by evil. Because they`re not prepared for it.
BECK: When we come back, you can noodle this and maybe if you can give me a short answer on one of them, the signs that we should be looking for, the things you think, okay this is probably likely to happen. And when you see this happen in the news, know this is a sign. Do you have one off the top of your head?
ROSENBERG: A dictator to emerge with Iussia to begin forming an alliance to, specifically criticizing Israel. When you see Russian leaders start to denounce Israel and threaten military action against Israel you know that events are really moving quickly.
BECK: Is it true that Russia buried military hardware in the desert?
ROSENBERG: They hid it in caves in the early 1980s, underground caves in Lebanon. I documented this in my book "Epicenter" when the Israelis invaded Lebanon to defeat the PLO they found enormous storehouses, allow multiple divisions of Soviet armored troops to come racing through Israel and take over the country.
BECK: OK. Now I am being told by the man in the sky we have to go. We`ll be back in a second with a final thought.
BECK: Back now for our final moments. I mean, I don`t mean our final moments. But you know the remaining moments that we have tonight with the author of "Epicenter" and the latest "Dead Heat" Joel Rosenberg. I asked you before we went in. Tell me the things, warning signs that people should be looking for in the news. They read it in the newspaper and they go, ooh, wait a minute. That`s not good. What are they?
ROSENBERG: Right. One of them is Russia beginning to make threatening moves and statements towards Israel.
BECK: Got it.
ROSENBERG: Secondly, the -- acceleration of the building of the city of Babylon. Not just the rebuilding of Iraq, but the city of Babylon because that is a central figure as it were, a central player that literal city in the country of Iraq. Third, I would say the beginning of the building of the Jewish temple. There is a third temple that will be built in Jerusalem.
BECK: How is that even possible? I mean .
ROSENBERG: A, I don`t know. There are a few scenarios. One scenario is there is a war and the Dome of the Rock and the al Aqsa Mosque are somehow destroyed, not somehow, somebody literally tries to take them out. Second, a war with missiles coming in from Hezbollah that actually hits that site of the Temple Mount and wipes them out.
BECK: How -- how would the Jews get access to that to be able to .
ROSENBERG: They control the site. The question is. Now if they do - - look if the Jews in Israel build a temple on the site without the permission of the Muslims, you could se 1.2 billion Muslims launch a jihad against Israel could be end of days in and of itself. But there is another way. If there was a comprehensive peace deal in which Jerusalem was divided. I don`t want this to happen. But if it happened. Jerusalem was divided. Palestinian Muslims were allowed to have part of Jerusalem for control of their capital, Jews had the other part. And then a deal was struck allowing Jews to take, there is a space on the temple mount next to the Dome of the Rock which where Jews could theoretically say we`ll build our temple there right next to the Dome of the Rock. I don`t know. We don`t know. But the preparation -- if you see start to happen, have me back.
BECK: I have to tell you, I have never witnessed anything like it. I`ve never felt anything like it. When you go to Israel I don`t care where you are if you are a spiritual person, I said to my wife, we were up by Lebanon, I said do you feel the Temple Mount? And he said, yeah. It is like, it`s pulsates. It is an amazing thing. It is really where god first spoke to man and man said, me and you, we`re together. It is an amazing place. Joel, we have to run. The name of the book is "Dead Heat." Please pick it up, America. You`ll enjoy it. Great read. And something you probably should think about.
From New York, good night.