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Glenn Beck

Is McCain in Trouble with Blue-Collar Voters?; Ted Nugent Weighs in on Second Amendment; The Politics of Oil

Aired May 14, 2008 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GLENN BECK, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, everybody`s talking about West Virginia and Hillary Clinton. I think we should look back at John McCain`s vote in West Virginia. Why he should be freaking out. Obama, McCain, are either of these two guys right for the White House?

Plus, former GOP congressman Bob Barr says he`ll run for president as a Libertarian. Disenfranchisement with the parties. We`ve had enough. I`ll talk to Bob Barr about his decision to ditch the GOP and where does he stand on the issues.

And gunning for your gun rights. Outspoken Second Amendment supporter and rocker Ted Nugent joins us for our series, "Second Amendment Under Fire." It`s always entertaining to talk to Ted Nugent.

All this and more, tonight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BECK: Hello, America.

Does anybody feel like I do? I can`t face this election any more. Do you have any idea how much money and how much time is being spent, yapping about these dopes running for president? By November, we`ll have spent thousands of hours yammering about these guys and about a billion dollars electing a new president. "Oh, he`s not going to owe people money." Favors?

Does anybody really care about these guys? I think voters are so disenfranchised our government is broken. The Democratic Party is split in half on who they want to run. The Republicans aren`t happy with the guys they`ve chosen to run, so here`s "The Point" tonight.

I`ve been bashing the Democrats for a while. Let`s give John McCain a whirl. Some of John McCain`s advisors are freaking out. And the rest that aren`t should be. And here`s how I got there.

With all the talk of the Democratic primary in West Virginia, some people have forgotten the results of February`s Republican primary in that state. Mike Huckabee got 52 percent of the vote, and Mitt Romney got 47 percent. John McCain, what percent did he get? One.

That racism. Wait a minute. He`s white. It doesn`t work. I can`t explain it. No, I can. He`s out of step with the people in West Virginia, just like Barack Obama is. Keep in mind, West Virginia has a split primary, so back in February only two-thirds of the state voted. The final vote last night, third -- the other third voted. McCain took 76 of the vote, but that still means that people were voting for candidates who aren`t evening running anymore!

The long story short, McCain ran unopposed last night, and he still didn`t sweep. Obviously, even though McCain`s the Republican Party`s presumptive nominee, there are huge pockets in this country that just don`t feel McCain represents their core values. Being able to reach across the aisle is great when you`re a senator, you know. You reach across the aisle, great. But you`ve spent so much time, John McCain, reaching across to liberal Democrats on -- you know, with Ted Kennedy that you`ve abandoned the conservative principles of Reagan`s Republican Party. At least that`s the way a lot of people feel.

We know McCain is strong on defense. That`s great. That`s important to me. I think it`s important to you. But when it comes to taxes and the economy, I don`t think this guy gets it. He doesn`t want to drill in ANWR, off the coasts. What? You haven`t even figured out that immigration is also a security issue, not a race issue. And when it comes to the environment, I mean, jeez, why don`t we just throw on Al Gore as a running mate? John McCain and the environment? You might as well vote for Ted Kennedy.

No, no, no! Because you also have Barack Obama. Barack Obama is left of a Kennedy. People say, "Oh, he`s just like JFK." No, he`s not. He`s far left of JFK. Barack Obama is the most liberal, leftist, Marxist candidate that has ever had a legitimate shot at the presidency of this country.

So tonight, America, here`s what you need to know. I don`t believe that either of these candidates really represent the core of their party. I don`t think they represent the core belief of America. How do we trust them to represent all of the people?

Well, let`s get the first opinion from deep within her secret lair, Ann Coulter, syndicated columnist and author of "If Democrats had Any Brains, They`d be Republicans."

Ann, last night, West Virginia, he got 75 percent of the vote. Before that, two-thirds voted. He got 1 percent of West Virginia. Indiana, only 8 percent -- I`m sorry, 18 percent of the Republicans didn`t vote for John McCain. Twenty percent in North Carolina didn`t vote for John McCain. This guy has got trouble.

ANN COULTER, AUTHOR, "IF DEMOCRATS HAD ANY BRAINS, THEY`D BE REPUBLICANS": Yes, I should say so. And this is when, you know, he has the nomination. There`s really no point in voting for these protest candidates. You do have to leave your home, drive to the polling stations, you know, stand in line. But people are coming out to cast protest votes against John McCain.

He`s not even in the news. And that`s when he looks best, when he`s not in the news. Barack Obama is in the news. You would think people would, you know, if the "I`m not Barack Obama" is going to be his campaign strategy, you think he`d be getting a little higher percentage of the vote.

But I mean, I love your point on West Virginia. I think that would be my argument if I were B. Hussein Obama today with Hillary saying, "Oh, well, you can`t get the blue-collar voters."

I`d say, "I don`t think -- I don`t think McCain is getting them either." He`s not getting them standing at a windmill factory, prattling on about global warming, as he did yesterday.

BECK: I have to tell you, this is why I said in "The Point" tonight that I think his advisers have got to be freaking out. They`ve got to be freaking out, because this is the time. While the Democrats are doing their own thing, this is the time that he should have been trying to capture real conservatives -- I don`t think he could do it -- but try to capture real conservatives. Instead, he`s making speeches about global warming?

COULTER: Right. And talking about comprehensive immigration reform again.

And by the way, because I suspect it`s going to come to this, even though he is running against a McGovernite Democrat, and therefore any Republican ought to win, he probably will not be doing very well because he`s a liberal Republican and liberal Republicans don`t do well.

Toward the end of the campaign he will start grasping toward the base. And if he loses, it will be blamed on conservatives. So I just want to get this set right now. If John McCain loses, it is because he`s a liberal, because that is what liberal Republicans do: they lose elections.

BECK: OK. Give me -- let me tell you a story. I was having dinner with somebody last week, and they are two of the most liberal people I know. I mean, one of their sons works for Hillary Clinton. I mean, it`s...

COULTER: You have to stop that, Glenn.

BECK: Yes, I know. I mean, I`ll just eat with anybody, I guess. But we were talking, and they said they cannot vote for Barack Obama because he scares them on their relationship to -- on his relationship with Israel and everything else. They say this guy`s a Marxist.

They said, "John McCain. We`ll just have to go with John McCain."

And I said, "Will you vote for John McCain?"

And they said, "Oh, he`s going to win. He`ll beat Barack Obama."

And I said, "Will you vote for John McCain?"

They both said, "No, no. We won`t vote for him. We won`t vote for Barack Obama." The only one that`s going to have passion behind his campaign is going to be Barack Obama. At least at this point. Who`s going to go out? Everybody says, "The people -- people in the middle." No, they won`t. The only ones that are going to -- go ahead.

COULTER: No, you`re -- you`re exactly right about that. This idea, which is -- does seem to be the central idea of the McCain campaign and the campaign of every liberal or, quote, "moderate Republican," is that somehow, they will galvanize this great swath of independent voters.

And you have it exactly right. Independent voters and people who do not pay attention to politics, not particularly care about politics, aren`t passionate about anything. And they`ll go with which whichever side is the most passionate.

BECK: Yes, OK. Ann, thanks a lot. We`ll talk to you again soon.

COULTER: Thank you.

BECK: All right. Now, politicians, what they always seem to forget, that Americans, Americans are -- we`re common-sense people. We`re not Republicans or Democrats. We`re common sense.

So, how do you take these leading candidates, and how did we end up with these guys? John McCain is left of the right of his own party. Barack Obama is so far to the left, I mean, I don`t think Michael Moore can even see him anymore. Where are the candidates that speak for the vast majority of common-sense Americans?

John Harwood is the co-author of "Pennsylvania Avenue: Profiles in Backroom Power."

Your book lays out the premise that it is just -- I mean, government is broken, and there are people from the inside that are trying to do things differently from the backroom. You know what? When are these people going to step up to the front?

JOHN HARWOOD, CO-AUTHOR, "PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE": Well, let me give you a couple examples in a second.

First of all, I want to congratulate Ann on a fabulous title for her book, and I just hope that "Pennsylvania Avenue" can sell a fraction of how well Ann does. I`ll be a happy guy.

Look, Glenn, if you want to illustrate how Washington is broken, think about two big reform crusades that we have seen over the last generation. Bill Clinton gets elected in 1992, says he`s going to provide universal health care, proposes a plan to a Democratic-controlled Congress. His own peeps were in charge of the Congress, could not get a single vote in committee.

Then look what happens in 2004. George W. Bush runs for a second term. Says he wants to partially privatize Social Security, which we all know is going broke in the long term. Proposes a plan to a Republican- controlled Congress, does not even get a vote.

That tells you something about how things simply do not get done in the Washington that we`ve built over the last generation that we describe in this book.

BECK: OK. So how do we get something -- you know what? I swear to God, bloodshot out of my eyes today when I saw Barack Obama, a guy who I did not rail on for the flag lapel pin. You`ll notice I`m not wearing one. It says nothing about your patriotism.

And then he made a big deal out of "Hey, I`m not wearing one." Now, he`s wearing one. This guy is the typical politician. Everything that he said is hogwash.

HARWOOD: Well, look, I don`t know if everything he said is hogwash, but let me tell you one story about him, though, Glenn. You say he`s a Marxist. We profile, in "Pennsylvania Avenue," a top strategist for the business community. The business industry political action committee. Bernadette Budy (ph) is her name.

She`s a conservative, but she`s looking at this campaign and says of Barack Obama -- I asked her, you know, all these Republicans are beginning to say he`s far left. What do you think about him?

She says, "We listen to the other side. He`s going to have a big table where we will all be around. We may not get what we want, but we can do business with this guy." That`s an example...

BECK: You know what?

HARWOOD: ... some of these -- go ahead.

BECK: John.

HARWOOD: Yes.

BECK: I know a lot of people...

HARWOOD: You don`t buy it?

BECK: No, I absolutely buy it. I know a lot of people who are huge on Wall Street, huge, run gigantic corporations. And it`s funny, because that`s exactly what they say about doing business with the Chinese. We`re not going to get everything we want. But we can do business with these people.

Come on! That doesn`t give you -- that doesn`t -- that doesn`t say anything about your philosophy on life. Of course. Business people can do business with business people.

HARWOOD: Right. But look, if you`re in business -- and by the way, three former heads of the Securities and Exchange Commission came out for Obama yesterday.

I think with both Obama and with John McCain -- now, you -- I know you don`t like his position on global warming, but it`s a way to get to a different kind of voter that George W. Bush couldn`t get.

BECK: Who are those voters? Who are those voters?

HARWOOD: Moderate suburban Republicans.

BECK: No, they`re not. If you look at the list of all the things that are important to voters, it is dead last with people. That`s not a priority. Here`s what a...

HARWOOD: Global warming as a term is not a priority, but the environment`s a priority, and global warming is a proxy for that.

BECK: Yes. We`re up against a break. I`m sorry.

Coming up, renewed effort to reinstate the federal assault weapons ban could be the first step towards eroding your Second Amendment rights. It`s part of part three of our weeklong series. Tonight, rocker and gun-rights advocate Ted Nugent is going to weigh in, in just a second.

And a reminder: tonight`s show brought to you by the Sleep Number Bed by Select Comfort. It`s the bed that counts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Coming up, a sit-down with former Republican congressman, Bob Barr. Now he`s running for the White House as a Libertarian. Oh, could it be? I mean, could some of us finally have a candidate that we could really support? Find out where he stands on the important issues in tonight`s "Real Story." I`m kind of excited about this, because I want it to work out, you know, for me so I have somebody to vote for.

But first, this week, the National Rifle Association is going to have their annual meeting, with two distinguished keynote speakers. One of them is a strong believer in the Second Amendment who holds true to conservative ideas and values, and the other is John McCain. Yes, yours truly will have the honor of addressing the NRA the day after the presumptive Republican candidate for president. Plan your trip accordingly.

Actually, my apologies to the McCain campaign. It`s not completely fair here. John McCain has always been strong on gun rights. He is the only candidate running for president that actually takes the Second Amendment seriously.

I`ve been telling you all week that your gun rights are under fire, and John McCain is going to address that issue in an exclusive article that I`ve asked him to write for my e-mail news letter. If you`re already a subscriber, it`s absolutely free. You`ll get it tomorrow and so much for in tomorrow`s free e-mail newsletter. But if you`re not, you can sign up now at GlennBeck.com.

Now let`s go to a guy who`s a vocal supporter of your gun rights, and he has been for years. He`s a rocker. He likes shooting things. He`s the Motor City madman, Ted Nugent.

Hello, Ted.

TED NUGENT, MUSICIAN: Hello, Glenn, happy NRA party time.

BECK: Yes. It`s going to -- I`m a little afraid. I`ve never partied with you, and seeing that I`m an alcoholic Mormon, it could get ugly, Ted. I mean, for you.

NUGENT: You`ll be amongst friends. God bless you for speaking out. The NRA is actually just an American family grassroots organization...

BECK: Yes.

NUGENT: ... that believes in freedoms and the right to self-defense. So you`ll fit right in.

BECK: No, I know. I`ve been before, and I really -- I`ve enjoyed the people there.

NUGENT: Great families.

BECK: I want to talk to you about -- I want to skip around to a lot of different stories here, because they all have the same thing.

First of all, a cop was shot yet again in Philadelphia. As soon as it happened, they go out and they -- the mayor and the governor and the chief of police say, "We need a new assault -- ban on assault rifles."

Yet, we don`t look at the rap sheet of the people that shot the cop.

NUGENT: I do.

BECK: The guy shouldn`t have been out -- yes, thank you.

NUGENT: But the cynicism is out of control. Well, you know, again, let`s -- let`s send prayers out to the Liczbinski family. The great cops, the great warriors on the streets of this nation who put their lives on the line every day. They deserve our respect, and this is no time going after calibers or actions or the colors of guns that is so stupid it`s beyond comprehension.

Would you have felt better if a cop would have been shot with a duck gun, because a duck gun is very dangerous if you`re not pointing it at ducks? That`s the ballistic truth of this situation. Recidivism is out of control in this country.

The Nugent family, the Beck family, everybody I know is absolutely appalled at the punks in the black robes, the prosecutors. Only the guilty need to feel guilty, but there is an actually cultivated condition of repeat offender rewarding going on in this country, and it breaks my heart.

BECK: All right.

NUGENT: And cops are dying.

BECK: So let me go now to New York City just up the highway a spell into New York City...

NUGENT: Do we have to?

BECK: Yes, I live here, Ted. You have no idea.

NUGENT: Well, I have an idea.

BECK: The cops, they`re now saying that they`re going to put cameras on the guns for the cops. And this is what a news reporter said. That way people will be able to see what the cops see.

And I said to myself, "No, you`re not." The camera will capture what actually was there, not necessarily what the cop thought he saw. If you cause that cop to hesitate for a moment, the cops are going to get killed.

NUGENT: I don`t need to repeat that, Glenn. You`ve got it nailed. We don`t need technology. I respect, revere and trust the New York City cops and cops across America to make the right judgment call. Yes, we make mistakes, and mistakes have been made but, for the most part, I`m sure it`s in the 99-plus percentile, cops do the right thing.

They draw their weapon when it`s appropriate, when their lives are being threatened, when the life of an innocent is being threatened. The statistics, all the evidence proves this.

Once again, in the realm of Bloomberg, any insanity can take place. Look at those two cadet cops who were gunned down when they responded to a pizza shooting. That`s a pizza shooting, not a pizza ordering. They went into an armed, violent situation with reasonable gun control, based on Kennedy and Bloomberg, et al, that cadet cops need to be unarmed.

My brain is going to join yours in squirting out of my ears. It is so illogical; it is so against common sense and reason. That`s why the NRA is more important now than ever. We stand for common sense, logic and the God-given right to self-defense: keeping and bearing arms.

BECK: Ted, we`ll see you -- we`ll see you Saturday. I`ll be there Saturday.

NUGENT: I`ll be there. I`ll be the happy guy.

BECK: You got it.

That`s the -- up next is "the Real Story." We have Libertarian presidential candidate Bob Barr. He`s going to talk, we`ll talk a little bit about gun rights but more about Washington`s problems. Should maverick John McCain be worried?

And Barack Obama claims he`s above political games, but did anybody notice he`s wearing the flag pin? Oh, look at it there on his lapel. I thought he wasn`t going to wear one. He`s just -- no, he`s no different than the rest of the clowns in Washington. I`ll explain in a second.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Well, I don`t know about you. I think democracy is supposed to be transparent. It`s out in the open so we can all see what`s going on. But yesterday, not really the case. The U.S. Senate quietly rejected a Republican energy plan that promised to open up ANWR to oil exploration.

Instead, what the Senate decided to do was vote 97-1 to temporarily halt oil deposits in the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. They seem to hope that temporarily diverting fuel from the reserves to the open market will increase supply and ease the prices at the pump. Yes, that seems strategic, doesn`t it?

By the way, the only guy that voted against it happened to be a Republican who is retiring. So the one good guy is leaving.

This is just yet another Band-Aid on a problem that will only be solved by drilling for more oil in places like ANWR and offshore and then going and building nuclear power plants and converting coal to oil and using the sun and the wind.

How bad does it have to be before these people in Washington actually do anything? Give me something real. Give me a moon shot. Good God Almighty, is this America or not?

Marty Kady is a congressional correspondent for the Politico. Marty, how -- I only read five papers a day. How did I miss that these two votes were coming up yesterday?

MARTY KADY, THE POLITICO: Well, you missed it because on the Republican energy plan, it had no shot of passing. It only got 42 votes, Glenn.

BECK: OK, hang on. Hang on, Marty. I don`t believe that when people are paying $4 a gallon for gas, I don`t believe that congressmen can`t call talk radio, can`t call people who say, "Hey, we`ve got to do something about gas," and let people know to involve the public in these decisions.

KADY: Well, you know, we`ve been -- ANWR`s not a new thing. This was -- this came up when Republicans were in charge of both chambers of Congress and had the White House in their 2005 energy bill. They couldn`t get it in there. It was vetoed by Bill Clinton in the mid-`90s. They`re sort of talking about it in the mid-`80s. So ANWR is not a new idea.

And the studies I`ve seen show that, at best, it`s 1 million barrels a day.

BECK: You know what?

KADY: Ten years from now and, and that`s 80 million -- 80 million barrels a day is the worldwide consumption, so 1 million barrels a day?

BECK: Well...

KADY: The study shows that`s going to reduce the cost per barrel by about 50 cents. I mean, it`s...

BECK: OK, I`ll take it.

KADY: It`s down the road.

BECK: Absolutely. But do we have anybody that thinks long-term or medium-term in this country? Is there a soul?

This is the same thing they said to us: "Oh, well, it`s no big deal and it`s not going to be ready until 2005." That`s why President Clinton vetoed it in 1995.

Well, at some point, we`re going to need those million barrels of oil.

The next thing I want to ask you is, dumping the Strategic Oil Reserve or stop filling it is something that we`ve been filling since 9/11. We happen to be at war with oil-producing countries. Yesterday, the price of oil spiked up, because Iran said they weren`t going to produce. They were going to cut back on some of their production.

What in the name of God are the people in Washington thinking about when they`re thinking about stop filling the Strategic Oil Reserve, when we`re a country at war?

KADY: Well, remember, the Strategic Petroleum Reserve is 97 percent full. There`s 700 million barrels of oil underground, underneath the ground in Texas and Louisiana. It`s about a three-month supply. That will put only 70,000 barrels a day onto the market. So we`re not going to see a big impact on the price there.

So, they have a veto-proof margin on that, too. So in this case, Republicans actually bucked the president.

BECK: Marty, thank you very much. We`ll be back in a second.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Coming up, do you remember the whole flag lapel controversy that candidate Obama worked so hard to dismiss? "Oh, no, really, it`s false patriotism."

Well, apparently, somebody`s decided that false patriotism is convenient when it comes to winning the White House. It`s not about the politics of distraction. It`s about the politics of principle. I`ll have more on that in just a bit.

But first, welcome to "The Real Story." You know, with all the daily bickering over Clinton and Obama and delegates and super delegates and Michigan and Florida -- la, la, la, la, la, la, la -- I can`t take it anymore. I think, you know what? I have lost sight of the forest for the trees.

I think a lot of people have. In my opinion, none of the candidates who are standing there are somebody that speaks to me, somebody -- I`m a conservative. What is it that I stand for? Where do I want America to go? Where is that guy or that woman that`s going to lead us there?

I think the "Real Story" is that most of us don`t understand those things anymore. We don`t even know where we`re going.

Yesterday, I got a call from a guy who said, "Oh, yes, tell me what a conservative really is." I made it up on the spot, but here was my answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: To be a conservative is, in my definition, is somebody that believes in the power of the individual. Somebody that believes, please, let me make my decisions. That I have a right to succeed and not be penalized for it. I have a right to fail. And have no one run to me if I don`t want them to run to me.

A conservative believes I have a right to manage my family. I have a right to discipline my family in the way I see fit, as long as it is not criminal.

A conservative believes I have the right to worship God. I have a right to worship the God of my understanding. And I do not have the right to jam down my version of God down anybody else`s throat or my version of no God down anybody`s throat.

A conservative believes, live and let live. That`s what a conservative believes.

A conservative believes in the smallest amount of government, the smallest government you can get, without anarchy. That`s what a conservative believes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: I mean, does that resonate with you at all? I mean, if it does, who are you going to vote for? Will you please e-mail me because I have no clue?

Tonight, I want to introduce you to possibly an option, somebody who says they want to get back to the American principles and values that it was founded on. Somebody who real conservatives may want to spend some time getting to know.

Bob Barr is a former Republican congressman from Georgia, now a Libertarian candidate for president of the United States.

Bob, is that how you would describe a conservative?

BOB BARR (L), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Glenn, I`ll tell you, you not only described a conservative, but you described almost to a "T" a Libertarian. You did an outstanding job.

And I think what -- what your listeners and your viewers are hearing is that inside the heart of every American beats the heart of a Libertarian. Every American is Libertarian about something. There`s something in their lives that they want to keep government out of.

BECK: Yes, but you know what, Bob? Here`s the problem. Everybody, I truly believe, every American is a Libertarian until they can get free stuff or they can benefit somehow or another from a bigger government. Then, all of a sudden, they`re for that guy.

BARR: Well, and that`s really what we have. When you look at the political landscape, as you do day in and day out and know it better than anybody, when you look at that current political landscape, at the presidential level, what you see is, big government or really big government.

You don`t see conservative. You don`t see Libertarianism and you don`t see small government. And that`s what I`m going to be talking about as a Libertarian candidate.

BECK: OK. So let -- I want to cover as much as I can, and I`ve dedicated two blocks to you. Two segments here for you tonight, because I want to be able to get as much information out there, because there`s a lot of people that really would like a conservative to vote for.

So, let`s talk about spending. It`s not that taxes are too low. It`s that we`re spending too much. What are you going to cut?

BARR: What we`re going to do immediately, if I were president, when I become president in January 2009, is take that $3.1 trillion federal budget and start paring it back.

First of all, attack the executive office of the president. Those discretionary spending items over which the president has control. You immediately institute at least a 10 percent cut across the board.

Then, you announce that you`re going to have a spending freeze. You indicate to the Congress, as one of your first messages to the Congress, that if the Congress sends Bob Barr as president any piece of legislation that raises the national debt ceiling, it will be vetoed.

Now, if Congress decides thereafter to override and increase the debt ceiling beyond the $9 trillion and something that it currently is, then at least the American people know that they have a president that wants to stop spending in the red and a Congress that wants to continue.

BECK: All right, so help me out. For instance, corporate welfare, there was a story in "The Wall Street Journal" today about -- about farmers. You can make up to $2.5 million in income, and you still get federal aid as a farmer now. This is ridiculous. You`re going to cut farm aid?

BARR: Absolutely, I would. Something like, Glenn, 54 -- 54 percent, that is well more than half of farm subsidies that were designed to help struggling farmers a long time ago, go to farms and families, owners, that are making over $200,000 a year. That is ridiculous. It is the worst example of government welfare, corporate welfare, and it would be cut out.

BECK: What about -- what about corporate welfare to the oil companies? You going to give them tax breaks? You going to tax them more? You going to seize their profits? What are you going to do?

BARR: Certainly not seize profits. That would be ridiculous, and that goes for so-called windfall property taxes. That`s seizing money from, ultimately, the shareholders of this country, the men and women and sometimes kids who have bought into shares in corporations. No need to penalize them.

But, yes, what we would do is, first of all, get a handle on federal spending, start reducing it. And then tackle the tax structure so we completely revamp the way the government raises revenues. And part of that -- part of that would be doing away with corporate welfare.

BECK: OK. So again, back to the oil companies. Are you going to take away their special exemptions for oil exploration?

BARR: Not initially. What we would do, what I would propose to do initially, of course, because you can`t change the tax structure overnight. The first problem is to get a handle on federal spending, and ultimately, we would work to completely change the tax structure.

But, insofar as we do need desperately now to get U.S. oil companies to start once again exploring, increasing refining capacity, something we`ve not done in over 30 years, it is necessary to use all tools in the book, legitimate ones, that is, to begin increasing oil exploration, oil extraction and petroleum refining.

BECK: OK. Bob, you know, I told you the other day, we`re going to come back to oil and gas here in the next segment, but I told you before, the last time we spoke, that, you know, I am really Libertarian at heart, but then, it always goes off the track with national defense.

It`s -- I mean, look, I am not -- I am a Founding Father in my belief. I don`t want these foreign entanglements. I don`t want to be involved in - - I don`t want to be the world`s policeman. I don`t want to be involved in the U.N. and everything else.

But you know what? The world has changed. We now have oceans, not just between us. Airplanes and missiles can cross the oceans in 12 minutes. What are you going to do over in the Middle East? Which, where`s your support for Israel? How do you deal with the Middle East?

BARR: Well, first and foremost, what we do in the Middle East is what we do elsewhere in the world. And we send a very clear signal to the world that we will no longer be occupying foreign lands. We will not, as a matter of actual policy, be engaged in nation building.

And this isn`t just something that I, Bob Barr as a candidate, as George W. Bush did as a candidate, but will not allow during my administration.

BECK: OK. We just heard...

BARR: One thing we also need to be doing, Glenn, is to immediately begin reducing the size, the footprint of our economic and military security blanket that is propping up the Iraqi regime.

BECK: OK. Well, how do...

BARR: And giving them every incentive not to take advantage, not to be responsible.

BECK: How do you do this when yesterday, Ahmadinejad said, "Israel is a stinking corpse on its way to annihilation." These people, we leave that area, it`s going to create a vacuum, and the power`s going to go to Iran. And it`s -- I mean, the thing is going to melt down. How do you do it and stay out?

BARR: We actually have some very solid friends in some countries in that area, Ahmadinejad aside, including Iran, where there is a strong and vibrant reservoir of pro-U.S. sentiment.

Iran, unlike Iraq, when we invaded in 2003, is a country that has a very sound economy. It`s a country that has, unlike Iraq, a history of participatory government. There are many, many millions of Iranian- Americans in this country. We need to be using that base of support to develop sound economic policies and political policies with Iran.

BECK: OK. All right. We`re going to take a break. When we come back, I want to talk about the nanny state, the global warming, the stupid light bulbs that we`re all supposed to use and gas, what is the plan?

Also, to wear a flag lapel pin or not to wear a flag lapel pin? Are we this stupid? Coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: We`re back with Libertarian presidential candidate and former congressman, Bob Barr, who`s making the case as to why real conservatives who are frustrated with the current crop of candidates might want to give him a look.

Bob, we`ve only got a limited amount of time, and I`ve got a lot of things to cover here. And we will have you back to explain in detail, but if you can give me some just yes or no answers on some of these things.

"24," Jack Bauer, it`s the concept of, we think there`s a nuke going off. Do we get the information out of the people that we think have information any way we have to? I say, you can waterboard them in my pool if you think a nuke is going off in New York. Do you? Yes or no.

BARR: No.

BECK: OK. You got to come back and explain that one.

BARR: I`d love to.

BECK: Illegals, do you ship them home or not?

BARR: When you find them, you ship them home, absolutely.

BECK: OK. Do you fine the companies crippling fines who are hiring employees and bringing -- and being the bait to bring them in?

BARR: Yes, you do.

BECK: Do you build the border fence?

BARR: No.

BECK: You got to explain that one. Why not?

BARR: First of all, I think it would be terribly costly. And whatever border fence you build, people are going to find a way to get around it, go under it, go over it, somehow.

I think it would look absolutely awful. And even though it`s a fence to keep people from coming in, as opposed to the Berlin wall, it gives the same impression. Not the impression I want to give the world about America.

BECK: I mean, what am I on "Curb Appeal" all of a sudden? It looks bad? All right, we`ll put some flowers there.

Global warming.

BARR: Global -- global warming doesn`t exist. Nobody`s proved it to me, and I think it`s ridiculous for a presidential candidate calling himself a Republican to be buying into the Kyoto nonsense.

BECK: First of all -- well, may I say, I might French kiss you right now. If I was attracted to you...

BARR: No, the answer to that is no.

BECK: All right. To tell you, thank you for finally saying, somebody saying that this is nonsense. This global warming, they`re going to sneak it in the back door, and it`s going to cripple us.

BARR: It`s going to cripple us, and it`s going to cripple a lot of the western world.

BECK: OK. Let`s go to -- let`s go to oil. Oil is clearly not our future, long-term. But it is short-term and probably medium-term. What`s your plan for not paying $10 a gallon for gasoline?

BARR: Well, first of all, I say, let the truly let the -- truly let the market prevail. Get the government out of taxing gasoline. That would be one relatively easy tax to get rid of. At least easier than the income tax. So, let`s start with that one.

You do -- you go to the companies and you say, "Look, this administration, the Bob Barr administration, is going to do everything possible to remove the regulatory burdens." And that includes the limitations on drilling for oil and ANWR, drilling for oil off the coast of the United States of America. Drilling for shale oil in other areas.

You companies are free to go ahead, have at it, try and find that oil. And if you find it, then to the extent that we can, consistent with Libertarian principles of governing, we`re going to make it as easy as possible for you to do so.

BECK: OK. So you`re for coal to oil?

BARR: Absolutely.

BECK: You`re for drilling in the ANWR.

BARR: Absolutely.

BECK: Off the coasts?

BARR: Absolutely.

BECK: Will you -- will you let people who are drilling -- will you let states say, "No, you can`t drill off our coasts"?

BARR: I would -- I do believe in states` rights. And if they -- it is their position, then I would use the tremendous persuasive powers, shall we say, of the president to do so, to override.

BECK: OK. What about nuclear power plants?

BARR: Nuclear, heck, even the French are going the direction of nuclear power plants. There`s got to be something right about it if the French are willing to do it.

BECK: Right. I thought we were supposed to learn everything from these smart French people. They have 80 percent of their power coming from nuclear power plants.

Although I did hear that the Huffington post said, "This is ridiculous. That would take 800 nuclear power plants." My question to you is, what would be the problem with 800 nuclear power plants in America if they were safe?

BARR: If they`re safe, there`s absolutely no problem with it, the Huffing Post notwithstanding.

BECK: OK. Bob, I sense incredible disenfranchisement in this country like I have never felt ever, ever before. I -- I think Washington has been taken over by the special interest groups. I think Washington has been taken over by the political parties. I don`t give a flying crap if it`s a donkey or an elephant. I just want answers.

And I want somebody to unleash the might of the American people. Take the shackles off of us.

Zogby says, you`ll probably did -- I mean, if you did really well, which I believe is three times the amount that a Libertarian has ever gotten before, you might get 3 percent of the vote.

A, why do this? And, B, isn`t it really going to take a quiet revolution in this country to take these parties and unseat the corrupt power that is in both of these parties?

BARR: It`s going to take a very loud revolution. We`ve seen already the, you know, the echoes of it, the reverberations, starting with the Ron Paul campaign. The future is the young people.

The poll you mentioned, for example, the Zogby poll, that was done before I even announced an exploratory committee that indicated 3 percent. We intend to go far beyond that.

And the backbone of it will be two things: the young people and the use of the Internet. I think those are two tools that -- that show no party allegiance. The young people in this country are not wedded to the stilted, status quo, establishment, two-party system, as many folks in my generation are. And that`s the future and that`s where our message is going to be targeted.

BECK: Bob, I`d love to have you on the radio program and also back here on television, because I have a lot more questions. And I would like to understand some of your answers to some of them tonight when we have some more time. Will you come back?

BARR: Look forward to it, Glenn. You say "Jump," Bob Barr says, "How high?"

BECK: Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. We`ll -- we`ll have you back.

With all the hype about Obama being a Washington outsider and the candidate of change, I`m tell you why the lapel pin controversy proves to me it`s the same old-same old. That`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: All right, I want to clear up a couple of things about Barack Obama because, honestly, I am sick to death of hearing them.

"Barack Obama! He`s a radical Muslim!" No, he`s not. He`s not any kind of Muslim. "Oh, yes, but he was sworn into office with a Koran." Nope, didn`t happen.

Oh, yes, but Barack Obama doesn`t wear a flag pin. You know, that makes a statement. Yes, that one`s a little more complicated. I would say, it wasn`t true, then it was true, then it wasn`t true for about a day, and now, it`s not true again part of the time. I think.

Here he is defending not wearing the flag pin in a debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I revere the American flag. And I would not be running for president if I did not revere this country.

This is -- I would not be standing here if it wasn`t for this country, and I`ve said this again. There`s no other country in which my story is even possible. Somebody who was born to a teenage mom, raised by a single mother and grandparents from small towns in Kansas. You know, who was able to get an education and rise to the point where I can run for the highest office in the land. I -- I could not help but love this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: The question about, why won`t you wear a flag -- OK, there he is. Now, here in a recent speech about the flag lapel pin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I was just handed this by Philip Femar (ph) Jr. -- is that correct? -- who is the ways and means committee chairman for disabled American veterans for the Department of Pennsylvania. It`s a flag pin. I think I`ll go ahead and put that on. I appreciate your service. Thank you. Thank you so much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: Are we this stupid? Was that just a one-time thing? Well, yes, until it wasn`t. Monday, as he moves into general election mode, Obama was once again -- look it -- wearing the flag lapel pin. His complain says his current position is sometimes he wears the pin, sometimes he doesn`t. That`s your position?

Looks like he`s doing the same thing every politician does. He`ll do whatever he has to do and say whatever he has to say to get elected. It`s the same old stuff.

We shouldn`t be electing a president because of what he wears on his lapel. There are about 13 billion reasons and counting to not vote for Barack Obama. Pick one of those. None the other once ones.

Well, what is it that John McCain really feels is important? The Second Amendment. He lays it all out exclusively for our e-mail news letter readers. If you`re not one, you can sign up to be one at GlennBeck.com. It is free.

From New York, good night.

(NEWSBREAK)

END