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Glenn Beck
What`s the Solution to Gas Crunch?; Which Candidate is Better for Economy, For Dealing with Middle East?; Judge Metes out Poetic Justice for Soda Assault
Aired June 09, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE PAGLIARULO, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, as gas prices continue their record climb, more and more Americans are struggling to make ends meet. We`ll look at the energy plans of the two candidates to see which makes the most sense.
Plus, can Barack Obama rally Clinton supporters behind him? How about McCain? Can he rope evangelical voters? We`ll take a look at the odds.
And a brutal hit and run in Hartford leaves a victim clinging to life. How close are the police to catching the perp? And why didn`t bystanders do more to help?
All this and more, tonight.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PAGLIARULO: Hello, America. I`m Joe Pagliarulo, Joe Pags, sitting in for Glenn Beck while he`s touring the country for his summer stage show. While he`s gone, it`s my turn to give you the sunny outlook on the state of our economy.
Let`s start with gas, where nationwide, the average price per gallon has finally hit a new record: $4. Yes!
There`s equally cheery employment news, of course. According to the U.S. Department of Labor, we`re now in our fifth consecutive month of job losses, and May`s jump to a 5.5 percent unemployment rate is the sharpest increase in 22 years. So people don`t make enough money to pay for the gas to get them to the jobs they`re losing because the price of gas is too high. It makes perfect sense.
And with that, we circle back around to Morgan Stanley`s prediction that oil will reach $150 a barrel by July 4. Happy birthday, America. Too bad I can`t afford a present for you.
So with all these indicators leading, some analysts predict we`re heading into a global recession. What I want to know is, what`s it going to take to fix this mess? Please tell me time is not the only cure.
Bob O`Brien is the stocks editor at Barron`s online.
Bob, it`s my pleasure to have you here. I`m confused. I`m scared, I`m nervous. I can`t fill the Suburban up anymore. What exactly are we going to do? Is there a fix here? Or do we just got to ride this out and say time is on our side again?
BOB O`BRIEN, STOCKS EDITOR, BARRON`S ONLINE: Yes, Joe, I`m afraid that time is the best answer here. I mean, there are some short-term fixes that can be -- that can be applied.
For example, today we heard from the Saudis that they are going to convene a conference, sit down with some of the oil-producing countries in the Middle East, and talk about what they can do to try and contribute to supplies.
My question has been where has the administration been for all these months in trying to agitate for those Saudis to do exactly this type of initiative? And, is this simply going to be an opportunity for them to sit and around and talk with each other, or is anything substantive going to come out of it? Thus far, the Saudis have shown no indication that they`re willing to amp up that production.
PAGLIARULO: I`m not going to defend George W. Bush here, because the gas prices are out of control and he`s the president, but he`s asked the Saudis to raise production twice, and they`ve laughed.
I`ve got to throw this at you, though. You`ve heard from some of these liberals on Capitol Hill saying we`ve got to stop with our oil dependency, foreign oil dependency. We`ve got to stop, we`ve got to stop, we`ve got to stop.
And yet two weeks ago they tried to vote on an approval to sue OPEC, because they`re not raising production. So what do they want? They want them to raise production. We can`t go and get our own oil here in America.
Yes, I think it`s politics right now in an election years that causing these prices to go so high. Between you and me and a hole in the wall, what exactly can really happen, aside from politics? George Bush isn`t doing well. Obama wants to be the president. McCain is 72. I`m tired of it.
You know, when I fill up a gas tank, it`s hurting me in the pocket book. What really can be done here? Raising production from foreign oil sources doesn`t seem to be the trick. There`s got to be something else we can do. Can`t we get it here?
O`BRIEN: Well, it`s difficult because, you know, Joe, this is not so much a supply issue, really, as it is a demand issue. Emerging markets like China and India are simply sucking up a lot more gas than they ever have historically. They`re diverting what would have originally come to the American shores overseas. And while it`s something that`s really...
PAGLIARULO: Every study I see says we`ve got plenty of oil out there on the market. The bottom line is also that the weak dollar is hurting us, too. How do we -- how exactly do we bolster the dollar? Shoot it with steroids? What do we do to make the dollar more powerful again?
O`BRIEN: Well, stop lowering interest rates for one thing, and stop sitting by idly. I mean, I think Ben Bernanke effectively got hoodwinked by his European counterparts last week, who waited until Ben Bernanke came forward, talked about what the Fed wanted to do domestically with inflation pressures, and then turned around and said, "Hey, we`re going to raise our -- we`re going to raise rates in the euro zone." That beat the dollar up one more time.
I think that Ben Bernanke and some of his colleagues on the Fed have to do a better job of playing politics with some of their European counterparts.
PAGLIARULO: Hey, people are dying to know. I heard two terms today that I`ve never heard before. Claire, the producer at the show, said that you mentioned a "V" economy and a "U" economy. I guess that`s the dip that we`re facing, either a slow dip or, you know, a quick bounce up. You`re saying it`s a "U," right? Have we hit bottom?
O`BRIEN: Well, I don`t think we`ve hit bottom. As a matter of fact, the indicators haven`t even shown us substantively that we`re actually in a recession as of yet. Now, these indicators typically are very lagging.
Now, the best hope was that we`d enter a recession. It would be very short-lived, and a recovery off that bottom would be very sharp and dramatic, and we`d be able to simply sort of catapult ourselves right back, like stretching a rubber band and watching it snap back forcefully.
It does look, however, as though, given the labor market conditions, given the consumer`s reticence to spend, and given the fact that so much of their money is being diverted to simply filling up the gas tank, that we`re probably in more of, unfortunately, a "U"-shaped recovery, one in which we could be struggling at the bottom of an economic recession for quite some time.
PAGLIARULO: Bob, thanks a lot for the knowledge. We appreciate that.
According a recent Pew poll, 88 percent of American voters say the economy is this year`s election`s No. 1 issue. Not really surprising given the circumstances. So for whom are those voters going to pull the lever?
According to that same poll, 51 percent of Americans -- this is crazy -- think that Senator Obama is the candidate who can best improve the economy. A topic that was the centerpiece of his campaigning today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have to do more. That`s why I`ve called for another round of fiscal stimulus, an immediate $50 billion to help those who`ve been hit hardest by this economic downturn. Americans who have lost their jobs, their homes, are facing rising costs in everything from food to a gallon of gas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAGLIARULO: Right. Because that first stimulus check is working so well.
Leslie Sanchez is a Republican strategist and CNN contributor. Peter Fenn is a former adviser to Al Gore. Peter, I`m so sorry about that. He`s also a Democratic strategist. And Jonathan Allen is a reporter with "Congressional Quarterly."
Peter, I`ve got to start with you, my friend. It`s great that Obama can wax poetic about the economy, but guess what? We just heard news today that one of his advisers on his vice-presidential selection committee got a couple of sweetheart loans courtesy of Countrywide, one of the leaders, of course, of the subprime mess. Does that make it tougher on Senator Obama to look above the fray on this?
PETER FENN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Not at all. I don`t think so. Look, what you`ve got here is a situation -- free loans. One was above regular, average. The other two were slightly below.
But look, you`ve got to -- Jim Johnson has a pretty good series of collateral places out there that he can -- he can go to. But the big issue here is change. We`re going to change the way the economy is going. And, look, you`ve got -- you`ve got George Bush for seven years, and if you liked it, then you`ll love...
PAGLIARULO: You`ll vote for McCain. Four more years of Bush.
FENN: Here he wants to double...
PAGLIARULO: Four more years of Bush. Are we going to hear that for the next six months? Peter, I love you like a brother. I love you like a brother. I love hanging out with you, but are we going to hear that garbage for the next six months? Four more years of Bush. Four more years of Bush.
I`ve got people calling my radio show saying, "It`s four more years of Bush." It`s working, but you know what? You`ve done it too soon. You should have waited.
FENN: He has no plan for this economy. His plan is to give another $1.2 billion in tax breaks to Exxon? Now, excuse me. Do they need that? No. His plan is not to help the middle class. It`s to extend the tax cuts on the very wealthy.
The plan that Barack Obama was talking about today is to provide for the 95 percent, not the top 5 percent, but the 95 percent, an average of $1,000 rebate and to help those who are -- who are in desperate need out there with foreclosures and who are losing their jobs.
PAGLIARULO: All right.
FENN: That`s the difference between the two plans.
PAGLIARULO: Leslie, what do you think -- Leslie, first of all, this guy who`s on the vice presidential committee, he`ll be gone soon, just like Reverend Wright was disinvited a long time ago. This guy will be gone soon. But this kind of news right now is you want this guy to help you make a very important decision like this. The economy is the biggest topic. What do you -- what do you think?
LESLIE SANCHEZ, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I think it shows a pattern of unusual relationships. It shows a lack of judgment on Barack Obama`s part, and as people are beginning to get to know him better, it`s not just that, but it`s a series of things. Yes, it is Reverend Wright. Yes, it is Rezko and his relationships there. Yes, it is Johnson with and this Countrywide relationship. Yes, it is the fact that he was, you know, arm and arm with the governor of Puerto Rico who`s been indicted on seven counts of, you know, campaign fraud.
There`s a series of things here that people are going to be looking at when deciding if the change is the type of change they want.
But on the issue of government and taxes, there`s a fundamental difference in how Barack Obama sees it -- you`re exactly right -- and John McCain. He`s talking about the government creating jobs.
PAGLIARULO: Yes.
SANCHEZ: He`s talking about raising taxes. Not only doubling the capital gains tax, dividend tax, which a lot of seniors rely on, raising those taxes, and those are not what I would call wealthy Americans. Not to mention payroll and income taxes.
That`s exactly the opposite of what John McCain wants to do. He`s talking protectionist policies, ending these free trade agreements, opening up NAFTA, which would just really hurt a lot of trade and strengthening, you know, a lot of those countries.
PAGLIARULO: I`ve got to say this. I think John McCain has got a problem, and I`ll highlight what that problem is in a second.
Jon, first, I want you in here on this. If you could, in a matter of seconds -- and it`s going to be very hard to do -- can you please tell the people watching right now what exactly, economically, would the difference be, the biggest difference between John McCain as president, Barack Obama as president?
JONATHAN ALLEN, "CONGRESSIONAL QUARTERLY": The biggest difference has to do with President Bush`s tax cuts. Senator McCain wants to extend them, and Senator Obama would let some of them expire. And I think that`s really the fundamental difference. It`s where you`re talking about the most amount of money, and it`s also a difference where they`re very defined.
They haven`t addressed some of the other issues particularly, on how they might pay for EMT relief and some of the other big issues out there. So really it`s the President Bush tax cuts that we`re talking about.
PAGLIARULO: How does Barack Obama define a rich person, Jonathan? Could you tell me that? Is it $75,000, which I`ve heard before? Is it $200,000? Is it 250 a year? What is it?
ALLEN: It has not been exactly defined by his campaign.
PAGLIARULO: That`s a problem, isn`t it?
ALLEN: But one of his top advisers today pegged it around $150,000 a year.
PAGLIARULO: That`s a new number.
ALLEN: I think a lot of folks would think that folks making between, say, $100,000 and $150,000, maybe even folks making over $70,000 are wealthy. A hundred fifty thousand is a number that doesn`t sound like a ton of money in the middle of Manhattan but does in a lot of other places.
PAGLIARULO: OK. It`s very interesting to take a look at that.
OK, John McCain not the greatest speaker. Now I`ll say I`ve got to pull you in here. He`s not a great speaker, and here`s a major mistake, a fundamental mistake I think he`s making. He`s listening to what Barack Obama`s saying, and he`s counterpunching everything.
John McCain needs to come out and be his own man, say what he`s going to do, say how he`s going to do it, and stop being reactionary to Barack Obama, no?
SANCHEZ: I agree with you. I totally agree on that point. You know, this is going to be an issue of style over substance, and you`re going to debate one over the other. John McCain has a strong record. He has strong leadership. He`s maverick and independent enough to appeal to a lot of conservative Democrats and independents. But he`s also secure enough working on the base.
He has a good plan moving forward. And he has certainty. I think that`s one thing voters are going to look at. We know what we get with John McCain. You don`t know what we get with Barack Obama. He`s a great orator, a great visionary, and it`s a great movement.
PAGLIARULO: He`s a great teleprompter reader, too.
SANCHEZ: But it`s not right for the country.
PAGLIARULO: He`s a great teleprompter reader, too.
SANCHEZ: Right, right.
PAGLIARULO: Hey, Peter, I want to pull you in here. Later on, we`re going to talk even more about this. There have been a lot of voters out there who are looking to Hillary Clinton as their savior. And I know that you feel pretty clear that they`re going to jump on board with Barack Obama. I don`t think so. Just give me -- just give me a bit of a tease for our conversation later on that.
FENN: Well, I`ll tell you, you`ve got women who are going to support him because he`s pro choice, not pro life. You`ve got over 60 folks who are going to support him because he`s going to stand up for senior citizens and not privatize Social Security.
You`ve got Hispanics who are hurting out there, who have voted for Hillary, who are going to vote for Barack Obama. You know, you`ve got working-class Americans, who are getting squeezed, as you pointed out at the beginning, on health care, on gasoline, on sending their kids to college. And he has plans for that. The only plan McCain has is more of the same of George Bush.
PAGLIARULO: You are going to be stunned, my friend. Leslie, Peter, John, we`re going to talk to you later on. And you`re going to be stunned later on when I tell you what my phone callers are telling me in San Antonio, Texas, where we get a lot of that demographic, and Houston, Texas. Keep it right here, guys.
All right. Coming up, turmoil in the Middle East means pain at the pump right here at home. The Israeli government says that all options are still on the table when it comes to Iran`s nuclear program. So as their top ally, what does that mean for us?
And a vicious hit and run leaves a 78-year-old man fighting for his life. The driver is still on the loose. But the bigger criminals may be those bystanders who left him in the street, even driving around him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO: Coming up, now that Hillary Clinton has thrown in the towel, or suspended it anyway, what happens to the nearly 18 million who so fervently supported her bid for the White House? Can Barack Obama rally Hillary`s base? We`ll find out in just a bit.
With world leaders looking to the oil czars of OPEC for help from, or at least an explanation to, the historically high prices kicking us in the back pocket and in the gas tank, today they may just have their answer. Iran.
OPEC`s second largest supplier has blamed the double-digit jump in the price of a barrel of oil on, yes, the weakening dollar. But also on a comment made by a senior Israeli official just this past Friday. Quote, "If Iran continues with its program for developing nuclear weapons, we will attack it," end quote.
So, rising Middle East tensions affect the price of oil? Who knew?
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert did distance himself from those comments yesterday, but he did not explicitly -- explicitly reject them. So distance, yes, rejection, no. What`s the difference? I don`t know.
Last week`s Iran`s president said that Israel would, quote, "soon disappear" -- that`s nothing new -- and has repeatedly called for that country`s extinction. His most recent rhetorical aggression is another reminder that the Middle East will undoubtedly be a central focus of not only this campaign but also the next administration`s first 100 days. So who`s the guy best equipped for this dogfight?
Joining me now is Joel Rosenberg, author of "Dead Heat," the founder of the Joshua Fund.
The average American, I would bet you, if we walked out on the street -- maybe not here in Manhattan, but I think middle America -- would not say Iran first if you asked them why the price of oil is so high.
JOEL ROSENBERG, AUTHOR, "DEAD HEAT": Iran, and their feverish attempt to steal, buy or make nuclear weapons, is the No. 1 threat in the Middle East. And now Israel`s deputy prime minister is now saying it looks as though war with Iran may be unavoidable. That`s the comment that seems to have driven up the price of oil. And understandably so.
I think a confrontation very well may be coming. Whether it`s this year or next, it means the stakes are very high for who we select as the next commander in chief.
PAGLIARULO: OK. So we`ve got two people now. The presumptive nominees are McCain and Obama, both senators. Both have Washington addresses. They both claim they`re going to bring change, which is not true. How they deal with -- individually, how do they deal with Iran?
I know that Barack Obama has said he`ll sit down with Ahmadinejad. I know that McCain says he`s not going to play that game and at one point saying, "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran."
What do you make of these two guys? Are they going to help or hurt?
ROSENBERG: Well, it`s a very serious question. And the question, I think, needs to be framed this way. If war is really coming with Iran, if it`s unavoidable -- and I hope that it`s not unavoidable. But if it is, who`s the most qualified and experienced person to be the next commander in chief?
Now Senator Obama, he`s got a big problem. First of all, he`s got no military experience. He`s got very little Washington experience. He doesn`t know the world leaders, doesn`t know our military leaders. So that`s a challenge.
But more importantly even that than that, his first foreign policy move, Senator Obama`s, upon entering the Oval Office next January if he`s elected, he said he will surrender in Iraq. He will pull U.S. forces out of the Middle East as rapidly as possible.
This is not exactly going to send a message to make Iran fear us, much less stop building or buying or stealing nuclear weapons. That`s the big danger on his part.
PAGLIARULO: And conversely, what does John McCain do? Again, he`s more of a hard liner, more like President Bush when it comes to the Middle East, certainly. What does he do to keep the pressure on Iran? Guess what? We`ve had sanctions there for almost 30 years. It`s not working.
ROSENBERG: Yes. The sanctions aren`t working. Unfortunately, diplomacy is not working. There`s two tracks that have to be done simultaneously. First, don`t surrender in Iraq. And that`s what, of course, is Senator McCain`s position.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
ROSENBERG: Is that keep the pressure on in Iraq. But the next question is how are we actually going to stop Iran from getting these weapons? We`re getting to the point where it looks as though, if sanctions and diplomacy aren`t working, we may, in fact, have to resort to a massive air attack on Iranian nuclear facilities and air defenses.
PAGLIARULO: Well, I don`t want to be the predictor of something so horrible happening.
ROSENBERG: Nor do I.
PAGLIARULO: Let me ask you this. If, in fact, something like that would have to happen, wouldn`t the Israelis do it first, and then what would we do in support of that? Would we verbally support them? Would we get in the planes and go in and do the same thing? How would that go down, in about 30 seconds?
ROSENBERG: Look, I don`t think that the Israelis -- I wouldn`t tell you this, but I don`t think the Israelis have the capacity to neutralize Iran`s nuclear threat.
PAGLIARULO: OK.
ROSENBERG: They don`t have enough in the air force or long-range missiles. The United States does. We have forces in Iraq, Afghanistan, Turkey, and the Persian Gulf. We could do it if we have to. The question is who will make that call? And how much time do we have to make that decision?
PAGLIARULO: So if we had to, we could. If Obama became the president, it probably wouldn`t happen, because he`d start pulling people out.
ROSENBERG: Well, exactly right. It`s not clear that McCain would take that action.
PAGLIARULO: Right, right, right.
ROSENBERG: But it`s clear that McCain -- that Obama would not.
PAGLIARULO: All right, Joel, thank you very much. We appreciate the expertise.
Coming up right here, some Florida high school pranksters are getting a taste of their own medicine after one of their victims tracks them down through YouTube.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO: Oh, those wacky kids and their YouTube, whether it`s a videotaping of the beat-down of a fellow cheerleader, taking a wiffle ball bat groin just for laughs, or throwing soda at a drive-through attendant`s face and yelling "fire in the hole" as the ice hits the skin. It`s the kind of clean-cut fun that well, can lead to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I`m not going to do it. We thought it would be funny to victimize restaurant employees by drenching them with ice-cold soda. We take this opportunity to apologize to the victims and take full responsibility for our irresponsible behavior. Instead, we should have used better judgment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Man, can you imagine some of the consequences that would have happened if we would have actually went through and did that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Think before you act. Don`t be stupid. Your future depends on it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAGLIARULO: I have to say the voice-over work is superior. And, yes, those were, in fact, handcuffs.
Mickey Sherman is a criminal defense attorney. He joins me now by phone.
Hey, Mickey, you know, I don`t know how familiar you are with this case. But it just seems like kids are getting dumber and dumber. You`ve got a bunch of kids going through a drive-through at a Taco Bell in, like, Orlando, Florida, throwing soda. I mean, basically, this is assault and battery. Is it not?
MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, but the apology was so sincere and from the heart. I mean, I don`t know who`s stupider, I`ve got to tell you: the kids or the judge who made them do that. Because I mean, why did they do this? For attention, so they`d be on TV, so people would talk about them. And what`s the punishment? We`re going to give you more exposure on YouTube and TV.
It makes no sense to me. It`s not the most serious crime, but it`s mean-spirited.
PAGLIARULO: Right. It is mean-spirited. We`ve got to talk about this whole YouTube and the MySpace thing. What happened was the kids did this. They posted it on YouTube. A co-worker of the woman who was assaulted goes on YouTube, finds the video, they have it attached to their MySpace account, which has their names on it. They track these idiots down in two hours.
Are criminals getting dumber, or pretty much it`s the new technology exploiting their stupidity?
SHERMAN: It`s not a question of dumber. It`s just the fact that when they use YouTube, when they use MySpace, everyone is so accomplished at this now, you know, including adults and children, that it takes no brains, no skill whatsoever to track it down.
And obviously, they don`t care if they get tracked down, because they`re actually proud of it. Don`t forget: they`re publishing the evidence of their crime. Whether it`s a crime or it`s a misdeed, they`re publishing this so everyone can see it, to brag about it.
And that`s why the remedy of having them apologize in the most insincere fashion I`ve ever heard. They made Michael Vick look convincing.
PAGLIARULO: What sort -- what sort of a -- nice. What sort of a punishment should these kids face? I mean, it is assault. It is battery. I mean, the poor person on the other end had no idea whether that was really something lit on fire, you know, once the cold soda hits them. It`s -- it`s disrespectful. I mean, what should have happened here?
SHERMAN: They should go to court. They should get probation. Not necessarily a criminal record. They shouldn`t probably go to jail unless someone was injured, but they should have to do about 500 volunteer work in a soup kitchen where they`re really going to do something instead of getting more attention on television and YouTube and MySpace.
PAGLIARULO: How do you think somebody gets an idea like this? You think they probably saw it on MySpace or YouTube, as well?
SHERMAN: MySpace and YouTube are actually a fertile testing ground for all kinds of inappropriate conduct. Don`t forget, "Jackass" is a highly rated show.
PAGLIARULO: Yes, right.
SHERMAN: You`ve got kids out there just trying to emulate them.
PAGLIARULO: I thought you were calling me a jackass for a second there.
SHERMAN: It`s a different network.
PAGLIARULO: It certainly is. It`s a highly rated show. People are trying to emulate that. If you see somebody throw some soda on somebody else. If I`m walking down the street -- I`ll ask you this. If I take the top off my soda and I spray it on somebody, that`s a criminal act, is it not?
SHERMAN: Absolutely. The disorderly conduct, the breach of the peace. Something that merits some type of punishment and reprimand, not more publicity.
PAGLIARULO: All right. Mickey, thank you so much.
Coming up right here, John McCain and the evangelical vote. Will the right choice for vice president unite the broken Republican Party? We`ll be back in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO: Coming up, an update on the 78-year-old hit and run victim who was left paralyzed in the middle of a Connecticut street. How could so many people watch this happen right in front of them and do absolutely nothing?
I`ll see if I can get an answer in just a bit.
But first, hallelujah, America. The Democratic slugfest that was primary `08 is now in the history books. The Democrats have their presumptive candidate in Barack Obama, and we can all get back to our lives and say bye-bye to the Hill and Barack show, yes.
Not so fast.
The curtain is not down on this political soap opera just yet. So let`s recap.
Last Tuesday, with Obama inching over the finish line, Hillary stood defiantly amid her adoring fans and vowed to fight on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: Now, the question is, where do we go from here? And given how far we`ve come and where we need to go as a party, it`s a question I don`t take lightly. This has been a long campaign, and I will be making no decisions tonight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAGLIARULO: I watched that live, and I was just startled by it. OK, I get it. It`s not over `till it`s over, right? But as someone once said, seven days is a lifetime in politics, and by Saturday, which, if you`re counting, is four days, the junior senator from the Empire State was singing a different tune.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: Today, as I suspend my campaign, I congratulate him on the victory he has won and the extraordinary race he has run. I endorse him and throw my full support behind him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAGLIARULO: OK. So she says she wasn`t going anywhere, wasn`t going to make any decisions. Then she had some secretive meeting that we were all told about, so it wasn`t secret at Dianne Feinstein`s house with Barack Obama. And now she is supporting Barack.
What happens to her 18 million supporters? And what about the women who may feel angry that their candidate lost?
Here to tell me where those 18 million votes go is Leslie Sanchez, Republican strategist and CNN contributor.
Welcome back.
Peter Fenn, a former adviser to Al Gore.
Again, so sorry.
And a Democratic strategist.
Jonathan Allen with "Congressional Quarterly."
Thank you so much for all three of you being back with me.
All right. I want to start with you, if I can, Jonathan.
So, you`re looking at this as a reporter. And you see Hillary Clinton say that she wasn`t going to make any decisions. Did you think even for a second that she was not going to drop out?
JONATHAN ALLEN, "CONGRESSIONAL QUARTERLY": I figured she would probably drop out, but it would take her a little while to do so. Just like on Saturday, when she built her crowd with her for a little bit before she endorsed Obama, she really had to get her supporters behind her, make sure they were with her, so the endorsement had meaning.
Had she come out on Tuesday night, walked out, said, "I endorse Barack Obama," and gone back behind the curtain, no one would have believed her. It had to be believable. She had to look like she wanted to fight.
She had to talk about her causes, the causes that her supporters believe in, and then say Barack Obama also believes in these causes, we need to go in that direction. And I think that`s what she had to do.
PAGLIARULO: It seemed kind of self-serving.
Hey, Peter, I want to ask you -- it seemed kind of self-serving to me when she was up there. This is what we`ve achieved, this is what we`ve accomplished. We`ve gone this far. I`m a woman. It`s a unique candidacy. We got more votes than Barack Obama.
Tuesday night to me sounded like she was trying to make her case for why she should have been the nominee.
PETER FENN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I`ll tell you, 17 months on the campaign trail is a long time. And I tell you, I`m less worried about those five days in between than the next five months. And I think that`s where the Democrats are going now, is unity is so critical right now.
The Democrats have a 13-point self-identified lead over Republicans. What that means is that, if you hold that party together, you win in November. And that`s what this Saturday event and future events between the two of them is going to be all about, I think.
PAGLIARULO: I think she`s -- I think that Barack Obama is going to have a real problem keeping Hillary Clinton`s 18 million voters, and I`ll tell you why in a second.
Leslie, I want to pull you in here first.
When you saw Hillary Clinton and her announcement on Tuesday, did it come off to you like it came off to me? Hey, look what I`ve accomplished. Look what I`ve done. How dare you not nominate me? And then Saturday the tune did change.
LESLIE SANCHEZ, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Two completely different tones, exactly right. She was much more forceful, animated, and probably the best of her game on Tuesday night.
PAGLIARULO: Yes.
SANCHEZ: As much as it was an affront to many people who wanted her to recede, you know, and concede, it was really the truly Hillary Clinton in top form.
PAGLIARULO: Yes.
SANCHEZ: And I think what you saw on Saturday was a very pedestrian speech. She hit what she had to hit, her milestones.
She talked about herself, she talked about the endorsement. Probably the most passionate part, the role of women in American politics. You know, kind of that empowerment speech, I believe she believes that, and her voters do as well.
And finally, you know, she closed with let`s unify and be together. But it was not the kind of ringing endorsement and really kind of call to charge that they`re going to need to make the sale.
People didn`t sign a pledge saying, I vote for Hillary Clinton, I do whatever she wants me to do. They`re independent.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
SANCHEZ: And that`s where the next five months is exactly crucial. I`ll agree with Peter on that.
PAGLIARULO: I`m going to hear -- well, I`m going to tell you what I`m hearing from my listeners. Now -- and Peter, I want to pull you back in here.
My listeners in Houston, Texas, it`s a market of four million people, very diverse. And my listeners in San Antonio, Texas, 1.6 million people, very diverse as well.
A lot of people supporting Hillary Clinton down in these cities. A lot of phone calls from all sorts of diverse angles. You`ve got women, old and young. We`ve got blacks, old and young. We`ve got Latinos, old and young.
We`ve got everybody calling my show. And to a person, when they call in and say, "I am a Hillary Clinton supporter," they to a person say, I will not cast my vote for Barack Obama. I can`t believe he did this to her.
You do have a problem in the Democratic Party. How do you get passed -- and please don`t tell me, oh, Joe, it`s only a few people. Really everybody loves each other. We`re all seeing Kumbaya. It`s not the case.
How do you get over that? There are 18 million people who could potentially vote John McCain.
FENN: Look, right now, you`re right. You look at the polling numbers, you get 20, 25, 28 percent of those Clinton supporters who say they`re reluctant to vote for Barack Obama.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
FENN: But what you have to remember is this a long, hard-fought race. People feel passionately. And if you look at that same number from 2000, with those John McCain voters who voted in those primaries, 51 percent of them said they weren`t going to vote for George Bush. They did.
Am I saying we`re going to get them all back? Heck, you never get them all back. But if we only lose between 10 and 20 percent of those folks, gain the rest, unify this party, we win because of the big difference. Plus...
(CROSSTALK)
FENN: Let me just get back to one point, the substantive point.
PAGLIARULO: Go ahead.
FENN: Look, you have right now John McCain running like George Bush. This is a guy who believes that we should reward those born to wealth, not those born to work.
PAGLIARULO: I can`t believe that`s the point -- that`s the point you had to bring up, Peter, that it`s four more years of Bush again? Come on! Get a new speech.
FENN: But here`s his dilemma. Here`s his big dilemma. Look, I wouldn`t be saying this if...
PAGLIARULO: I hear you. You wouldn`t be saying...
FENN: In order to win this race, he`s got to distance himself from George Bush.
SANCHEZ: No.
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: Hold on a second. Hold on. Hold on. Stop, stop, stop, stop.
You wouldn`t be saying it if Barack Obama weren`t campaigning on it.
Leslie, let me ask you this -- what does John McCain have to do to get those 18 million? Because he can do it. But I`m telling you right now, if he makes the move I think he might move, he`s going to lose people like me. What do you think he can do?
SANCHEZ: You know, John McCain was already -- in terms of those conservative -- I`ll talk about conservative Democrats -- 16, 17 percent already were going to side with him. He does incredibly well with Independents. He does incredibly well with Hispanics. You know, in his own state, he`s earned over 50 percent.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
SANCHEZ: But you have a lot of Hispanic veterans and their families who say things like, I don`t want to see the American eagle become a sitting duck. They like the strong, patriotic -- strong defense. They`re going to have a strong natural appeal to John McCain.
And in terms of women, it`s fascinating. I think ideologically, you have a lot of women who say, you know, it`s only a short 48 months until the next cycle.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
SANCHEZ: What if Barack Obama is a flash in the pan? They may keep their powder dry and choose to support Hillary Clinton in the future. This is a group of people that believe that.
PAGLIARULO: I have one quick comment before I bring Jonathan in here. The quick comment is, if John McCain gets a Condoleezza Rice or somebody like a Mitt Romney as a vice presidential running mate, he`s got me. If he goes with Joe Lieberman or something crazy like Hillary Clinton, he`s going to lose me, but he might get those 18 million that he`s vying for. That`s the weird part here.
I want to ask you, Jonathan, about evangelicals and John McCain. This is an issue for him that sort of just flew by when it came to Pastor John Hagee, when it comes to whatever his name is, these people who made these outrageous statements.
Is this going to be a problem for John McCain as we get closer to the election in November, when it comes to evangelical voters, who, by the way, 78 percent voted for George Bush in 2004? Right now we`re not sure what they`re going to do.
ALLEN: Look, John McCain has not always been with the conservative Republicans on every social issue, and that`s going to be an issue for him with evangelical voters. And Barack Obama is going to try to exploit that.
Democrats have already tried to exploit the environmental issue, climate change. Evangelical voters tend to be more with the Democrats on environmental issues.
You heard Senator Obama when he was talking to the conference of Jewish leaders last week, talk about an undivided Jerusalem and then kind of back off of that. Well, evangelical Christian voters like the idea of an undivided Jerusalem. And it may have been a message to them like, hey...
PAGLIARULO: Exactly.
ALLEN: ... maybe you can come over toward me a little bit.
PAGLIARULO: I`ve got to jump in here.
Jonathan, this is the irony of this entire election. Barack Obama looks like the evangelical, John McCain doesn`t. That`s the weird thing.
Barack Obama to me is a socialist and a very left-leaning liberal, but he comes off as somebody who can gather 70,000, 80,000, 90,000 100,000 people to sing "Hallelujah" and "Kumbaya." So how does John McCain possibly grab those evangelicals who I think might just in their hearts feel like, I`ve got to go to Barack Obama, look what he`s saying and how he`s saying it?
ALLEN: Well, abortion`s going to be the biggest issue on that. I mean, that`s the -- the sort of flagship social issue. And it`s something that John McCain has consistently voted with the evangelical Christians on. He`s pro-life. His record says nothing other than that. And I think that`s going to be...
PAGLIARULO: It`s about issues...
(CROSSTALK)
Joe, it`s not just pro-life.
PAGLIARULO: Quickly.
SANCHEZ: It`s sanctity of marriage.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
SANCHEZ: And also, I remind you we have about 14 million Hispanic evangelicals and charismatic Catholics who are looking at immigration reform. They`re looking at even things like school choice. They`ve got a different agenda, they`ve got...
PAGLIARULO: I`ve got to give Peter the last word.
FENN: Let me just say...
PAGLIARULO: Peter, can Barack Obama get the evangelicals? Quickly.
FENN: Oh, I definitely think he can. Look, it was John McCain who called them the agents of intolerance, who said in that 2000 speech he was not going to pander to evangelicals. Well, he is all over the map on this. And I think you`re going to see a steady, strong Barack Obama appealing to those folks.
PAGLIARULO: Hey, Peter, four more years of Bush, huh?
(LAUGHTER)
FENN: Hopefully not, Joe.
PAGLIARULO: Leslie, John, Peter, thank you very much. We always appreciate it.
Up next, an update on that 78-year-old hit and run victim left to die in the street. I`ll find out how close police are to catching the driver and why so many people watched it all happen and did nothing to help.
Do not go anywhere.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO: By now you`ve probably seen the horrific surveillance video showing 78-year-old Angel Torres being struck at high speed by a driver who just keeps on going. A small warning before we roll the tape. It is disturbing to watch.
But perhaps more upsetting than the actual act itself is the fact that, as Torres lay motionless on the ground, cars and pedestrians just keep on passing by. Some pausing to stare, but none appearing to provide any help. Not until a police cruiser responding to an unrelated incident arrived on the scene about a minute and a half later.
Did Torres get the help he so desperately needed?
Tina Brown has been covering the story from the "Hartford Courant.".
Tina, cops still have not been successful in finding this driver, right?
TINA BROWN, REPORTER, "HARTFORD COURANT": Right now they don`t have any suspects. They say they`ve gotten a lot of calls, and they encourage people to continue to call. But there has not been any identified suspects. There`s no -- they haven`t identified the cars, and they haven`t identified the people driving the cars.
PAGLIARULO: Well, I watched it a few times, as I`m sure you probably have. It appears as these two cars were either chasing each other or they`re racing. But is anybody suggesting what might be going on there? Have we sort of at least honed in to what kind of vehicles these are?
BROWN: Well, not exactly. The original report was there were two cars speeding along Main Street, about a mile away, and they zipped into Park Street where this accident occurred. And they actually crossed the barrier, they crossed the line as Mr. Torres was walking out into the street.
PAGLIARULO: They were on the wrong side of the road.
BROWN: They were on the wrong side of the road. And he was jaywalking, of course, but they had no reason to go from the right lane to the left lane legally.
PAGLIARULO: Now, is this a road where you might get some pretty heavy traffic? Is it a side street, is it an alley? I mean, what?
BROWN: No. It`s a major thoroughfare. It`s called Park Street.
There are a lot of -- it`s a Puerto Rican area, but it`s a lot of ethnic groups have stores, bodegas, very, very heavily-traveled area, especially on a day like -- a Friday afternoon.
PAGLIARULO: If you could -- and it`s just horrible to see people passing by. But if you could, tell me the sentiment in the community. I mean, is everybody just up in arms, they can`t believe that this happened, or, eh, you know, everybody is busy, whatever?
BROWN: I think they`re really shocked and dismayed that this happened. But I`m not sure a lot of people are surprised.
You know, I think there was some concern initially that no one called 911. Now it looks like at least two people called 911 within a minute of the accident.
PAGLIARULO: Yes.
BROWN: But clearly no one went out to check his pulse or to see how he was doing. And he`s in a real critical state.
PAGLIARULO: Tina, thank you. I appreciate the update.
Now, in the days that have followed the May 30th incident, we have learned -- Tina just said two calls. We understand maybe as many as four 911 calls were placed. Four little ones. A lot more cars than that passed by from my count.
Hartford`s police chief using this appalling act now as an example of how we`ve "lost our moral compass."
Jeff Gardere is a clinical psychologist, joins us now.
Jeff, you know, when I watch this -- initially, I remember hearing a study years and years ago that when we rubberneck at an accident, you know, we all slow down on the highway and try to take a look at see what`s going on, we`re not looking for gore. We actually deep down have compassion for whatever the person is going through. To me, watching this video, there`s no compassion at all here.
What do you see?
JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, what I see is people who are absolutely desensitized to something that is horrible, a man lying in the street, maybe dead, maybe alive. And I`m glad that the calls were made, but as Tina pointed out, people did not go and try to stop cars or flag down a police car to get this man some help. It`s terrible.
PAGLIARULO: Well, obviously -- I mean, the initial thing you should do is park the car in front of the guy so nobody hits him again.
GARDERE: That`s correct.
PAGLIARULO: That`s the first thing that I -- I would -- my knee-jerk reaction would be, let me try to protect this guy. You probably don`t want to touch him. I`m not a medical expert. But when it comes to -- what is the human nature involved in here, Jeff?
As we`re passing by, I -- through my mind, people are thinking, you know, I`m too busy, or somebody else made that call already. Or I`m sure that help is on the way. Or forget him. I don`t care about him.
What do you think the initial reaction was from people who didn`t stop?
GARDERE: I think it was probably all of these things, or a combination of them. I think part of what was going on here is this area - - I don`t know it as well. Maybe Tina knows it better. But this area is not supposed to be the safest or nicest area.
PAGLIARULO: Yes.
GARDERE: And I think people like to work in their comfort zone. If it was a much more tight-knit community where people really knew one another, then I think people would have rushed out, circled this individual to make sure that cars didn`t run him over, and that he got the help that he so desperately needed.
PAGLIARULO: Just an update for the people watching, this man is paralyzed still. They don`t know who did the hitting and the running.
Let me ask you this, going forward, as we watch this as a nation -- everybody is appalled when they watch this, and it`s been running over and over...
GARDERE: Sure.
PAGLIARULO: ... so we can all go, oh, my goodness, I can`t believe this would happen, we need to do something next time. Will this serve as some sort of -- an impetus for us all to say, I`ve got to help my neighbor, I`ve got to stop if this ever happens again? What exactly would I do if I were in the same situation?
GARDERE: Well, I think this is a cautionary tale, and the takeaway is don`t wait for somebody else to go out and offer the help. All of us need to be leaders. All of us need to be good Samaritans.
But Joe, think about this. How many times in the New York City subways do we walk by and see bodies on the floor, see people who may be dead or alive, and we just walk by? We`ve been desensitized, and we just have to change the way that we look at other people, the way that we relate to others.
PAGLIARULO: I`ve got to throw this at you, Jeff. Had one person stopped to help, do you think a ton of other people would have too?
GARDERE: A lot of our behavior as human beings is based around what happens with groups.
PAGLIARULO: We`re followers, right?
GARDERE: Right, exactly. It`s a group mentality.
If one person came out and tried to flag down a cop car, or at least surrounded this individual to make sure that other cars did not run him over, god forbid, by accident, then other people would have followed. But everyone was waiting on someone else to do something, and thus nothing got done other than those two calls that we know of.
PAGLIARULO: I talked about this on my San Antonio show on WOAI the other day, and I got a phone call from a volunteer firefighter on the radio. And he said, I had a friend who once stopped and helped somebody who was in need like this, and he got the guy some help and the guy lived because of it. Then the man turned around and sued him.
Is that a real issue, that we have to worry about, if we try to help somebody, that we might face a lawsuit, for goodness sakes?
GARDERE: Well, I think that`s one thing that people very much are concerned about, that they don`t get sued. But as you pointed out so smartly when we opened up this segment, the bottom line is you don`t want to move someone who`s been in an accident because we`re not medical people.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
GARDERE: We don`t know what may happen.
The other thing -- and I hate to say this, but it`s the truth -- people are germophobes these days.
PAGLIARULO: Yes.
GARDERE: They`re afraid if there`s blood, that they may touch the blood. They`re afraid that they might get contaminated. We don`t know really what could happen, but people are really afraid. And so they say stay away because of that, too.
PAGLIARULO: And the bottom line here is, you know what? This isn`t 1982 anymore. We`ve all got cell phones. Fifty phone calls should have been made immediately even if they didn`t stop.
Jeff, thank you so much for your insight on this.
GARDERE: Thank you.
PAGLIARULO: We`re going to be back in just a minute. Stay right here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO: Of course there is no substitute for a hug from dad. But with so many dads serving overseas in the military these days, their families are desperate for a way to stay connected.
Erika Edberg of KTVX in Salt Lake City has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ERIKA EDBERG, REPORTER, KTVX (voice over): Every day 5-year-old William Fisher thinks about his dad and misses him a lot.
CASSITY FISHER, WIFE OF SOLDIER: He just started screaming, crying, tears pouring down his face and all that kind of stuff. And I was like, "Well, what is it?" And he said, "I just miss my daddy."
EDBERG: Daddy is Staff Sergeant Shane Fisher, deployed to Iraq four months ago, leaving behind his wife Cassity and their four kids. But on the morning he left, he helped create a gift for each child that he hoped would help bridge their many miles and months apart, a daddy doll with a picture of Shane in uniform and a voice recording with a personal message for each of his kids.
SHANE FISHER: William, I love you big boy. You`re my buddy.
C. FISHER: Actually, he did them the day that he left. It was an emotional time for him anyway. And so -- and they can kind of even hear it a little bit in his voice.
S. FISHER: Alyssa (ph), I love you good girl. You`re my princess.
EDBERG: There are about 1.2 million children in families with active duty military personnel. About 40 percent are under age 5. The stress of separation, disruption in routines, and the anxiety the at-home parent is feeling can all have a serious impact on a young child.
C. FISHER: William has -- he`s actually gotten a little more aggressive with other children.
LYNETTE FRAGA, DIRECTOR, MILITARY PROJECTS, "ZERO TO THREE": What we know about brain development is that young children do experience changes physiologically when they experience stress. And that stress and distress can affect their growth and development, their healthy growth and development, now and beyond.
EDBERG: And these dolls can help. They`re the brain child of two military moms, Trisha Dial (ph) and Nikki Darnell (ph), who make them in Nikki`s (ph) basement.
C. FISHER: They hear their daddy`s voice on the phone, but this is their daddy`s voice right there with them. And a picture of them, and something that was tangible.
EDBERG: Experts say children under 1 might be confused at hearing dad`s voice come from a doll, but the soothing presence of another significant adult makes all the difference. Two-year-old Iliana (ph) always has her daddy doll close by.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My daddy doll.
EDBERG: Erika Edberg, ABC 4 News.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PAGLIARULO: It`s a cool idea, but hopefully they`ll all get real hugs very soon.
I`m Joe Pags, filling in for Glenn Beck.
From New York, have a great night.
END
