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Glenn Beck
McCain Versus Obama: The Economy; The Hogan Family; Making a Positive Impact; Can McCain Earn Evangelical Vote?; Why are Windfall Taxes Wrong Move?; Gennifer Flowers, Paula Jones Sell Stories Online
Aired June 10, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE PAGLIARULO, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, McCain and evangelicals. Fundamentalist Christians will play a crucial role in the presidential election. So how do they feel about the likely GOP candidate? We`ll ask Richard Land of the Southern Baptist Convention.
Plus, is Hulk Hogan making matters worse for his imprisoned son? I`ll tell you what he did and whether his son is getting the punishment he deserves.
And Gennifer Flowers and Paula Jones try to get back in the limelight. They`re offering lurid details of encounters they claim they had with Bill Clinton, for money. We`ll tell you what they`re saying and if their shameless ploy will pay off.
All this and more, tonight.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PAGLIARULO: Hello, America. I`m Joe Pagliarulo, Joe Pags, in for Glenn Beck, once again, who continues his crisscross across the country on his comedy stage tour.
Tonight, I want to start by talking about what has arguably become the most influential part of the conservative base, the evangelical vote. In 2004, President Bush carried 78 percent of evangelicals. So there`s no denying the power they represent at the voting booth.
Over the next two days, a large portion of that voting bloc, the Southern Baptist Convention. Just over 16 million members strong, it`s holding its annual convention in Indianapolis. They`ll be addressing a number of topics, and I can only imagine, one of two of them might have something to do with this year`s political landscape.
With likely GOP nominee John McCain`s well-publicized trouble appealing to the evangelical vote and the historical weight it carries, is there anything he can do to swing those numbers in his direction?
Here with me now to talk about those meetings, and the presidential campaign at large, is Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission.
Hi, Richard.
RICHARD LAND, PRESIDENT, SOUTHERN BAPTIST ETHICS AND RELIGIOUS LIBERTY COMMISSION: Hi, how are you?
PAGLIARULO: I`m doing great. My first question has to be, how on God`s green earth, Richard, did John Kerry get 22 percent of the evangelical vote in 2004? What was that all about?
LAND: Well, evangelicals have always been more diverse than the media has given them credit for being. And, you know, there`s a certain percentage of people who call themselves evangelicals who are going to vote Democrat, no matter who the nominee is, and there are some who -- who liked John Kerry`s positions better.
But among southern Baptists, it was 84 percent who voted for Bush. So we were higher than average evangelicals. Sixteen percent voted for Kerry.
PAGLIARULO: I`ve got to throw this at you now. As I watch Barack Obama campaign and I watch John McCain campaign, and as you do the same thing, Richard, doesn`t Barack Obama -- and I`m not trying to start trouble, but doesn`t he come off as the evangelical? And doesn`t McCain come off as somebody who`s a little more stodgy and more stiff?
LAND: Well, in terms of style...
PAGLIARULO: Yes.
LAND: ... in terms of delivery, in terms of charisma, there`s no question that Barack Obama has the whiff of the revival tent about him.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
LAND: I mean, he knows how to talk the language of faith. He`s much more comfortable with talking about his faith than John Kerry will ever be this side of heaven.
PAGLIARULO: Or John McCain -- or John McCain this time, right? Or are you comparing him, actually, to John Kerry?
LAND: I was saying that John Kerry was not comfortable.
PAGLIARULO: Yes.
LAND: His body language wasn`t comfortable. I would say Barack Obama is at least as comfortable as George W. Bush talking about his faith. And John McCain is not as comfortable. It`s -- I think part of it`s a generational thing.
PAGLIARULO: Yes.
LAND: I think part of it is that he was raised Episcopalian and, even though he`s been going to a Baptist church for many years now, you know, Episcopalians just don`t talk about their personal faith as much.
PAGLIARULO: Sure.
LAND: That doesn`t mean they don`t have it. It`s just it`s sort of a subculture thing. There`s no question about that. But here again, we`re going to get down to the issue of style versus substance.
PAGLIARULO: Well, I want to ask you very quickly, and we don`t have a lot of time left, but I want to talk about a few more things very quickly. Will his style, Barack Obama`s style grab anybody who calls themselves an evangelical because they`re not paying very close attention to the issues?
LAND: Yes, it will.
PAGLIARULO: OK.
LAND: It will. But I think when people find out about his very aggressively pro-abortion voting record, voting -- voting against the Born Alive Protection Act when he was a state Senator in Illinois, voting against the ban on partial birth abortion.
This is the most extreme pro-abortion candidate that has ever been nominated by a major party in the United States.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
LAND: That`s going to be a mighty stiff current for him to swim against for the evangelicals.
PAGLIARULO: Will John McCain`s vice-presidential candidate, his nominee along with him, will that huge difference to evangelicals? Well, is there a chance evangelicals will sit on their hands and not vote at all this time, and wait out another four years until they find a candidate that they like better? Should McCain grab a Lieberman or even something crazy like Hillary Clinton as his running mate?
LAND: If he picks a pro-choice running mate -- and I love John -- I love Joe Lieberman but not as a vice president. Joe Lieberman`s very pro- choice. If he picks a pro-choice running mate, it will depress the base. I don`t think that it will mean that there will be a lot of evangelicals, certainly a lot of Southern Baptist who will vote Obama, but a lot of them would not vote.
Now, I have a poll that just shows, just recently, that 80 percent of southern Baptist pastors right now are planning to vote for John McCain, and 1 percent are planning to vote for Barack Obama. And about 5 percent are going to vote for third-party candidates, and the rest of them are undecided. That number would go down if he picked a Joe Lieberman as his running mate.
PAGLIARULO: Yes. And Richard, I`ve got ten seconds left. Mike Huckabee, Mitt Romney, somebody else? Quickly, who should be his pick for vice president?
LAND: Well, either one of those would be fine. And how about Bill Frist, the -- Dr. Frist would be good. I think General Petraeus would be good.
PAGLIARULO: That`s a -- that`s a -- we`ve got to examine that one next time we talk, Richard. That`s a great suggestion. OK. Thank you very much for that.
Let`s move on now to talk specifically about McCain and that evangelical vote. Does he have an uphill battle trying to capture their votes? And how important will his vice-presidential choice be with the group. Let`s talk about it politically instead of religiously.
Here with us now, three people that have some answers to those questions. Liz Chadderdon, the Democratic strategist, president of the Chadderdon group; Stephen Hayes, senior writer for "The Weekly Standard" and author of "Cheney: The Untold Story of America`s Most Powerful and Controversial Vice President"; and Joshua Green, senior editor at "The Atlantic."
Liz, I`ve got to start with you. OK. You heard me talking to Richard Land just now. He even -- he admits that Barack Obama could, in fact, if people aren`t paying attention to the -- to the issues very closely, he could grab some of the evangelicals. Is it smart for him to go after them specifically?
LIZ CHADDERDON, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Absolutely and even -- the evangelicals listen very closely to the issues. They may see some things that they have in common with Barack Obama.
One of the things that`s interesting about the evangelical movement is they are becoming bigger and bigger environmentalists. Now, they call themselves conservationists, but they`re actually very dedicated to protecting the environment, protecting the planet. It`s something that actually insubstantial, and that is something that Barack Obama has a long record of.
So I actually think he`s very smart to go after that -- that constituency, and he could win a good chunk of them.
PAGLIARULO: And I don`t want to be a troublemaker here. Well, actually, I do, Liz, a little bit. Environment very important -- you`re right -- for evangelicals and -- but also abortion is, too. And also gay marriage is, too. And how they look past that, I`m not really sure.
Stephen, when -- when you look at it in those terms, can evangelicals look past abortion and gay marriage and say the environment is more important, plus this guy makes me feel good when he talks?
STEPHEN HAYES, SENIOR WRITER, "WEEKLY STANDARD": No, they can`t.
PAGLIARULO: OK.
HAYES: Clearly, those are going to be bigger issues. And I think Richard is right. I had the opportunity to talk to Senator McCain. This is now probably three or four months ago on his campaign plane. And we were talking, sort of musing about his potential vice-presidential candidates.
And somebody brought up the name of Tom Ridge, and we kicked around some other pro-choice candidates. And Senator McCain volunteered to this group, small group of reporters, said, "I don`t really know that I could pick a pro-choice vice-presidential candidate. It would -- it would amount to a disagreement with a fundamental premise of the Republican Party."
So I think he`s probably not looking that way. And certainly, as it relates to evangelicals, abortion is going to be a more important issue than the environment. And John McCain is also probably closer to a Barack Obama on the environment than he is to a Republican.
PAGLIARULO: John McCain is way too far left for me on the environment. We`ll talk about that later.
Josh, I`m going to ask you as a reporter watching this, does McCain -- does he make a smart move by going more left, trying to grab Hillary Clinton`s voters, or going more right and making sure that he`s in good with the evangelicals.
JOSHUA GREEN, SENIOR EDITOR, "THE ATLANTIC": I mean, I think ultimately, general election, he does better pivoting toward the center. I mean, George Bush won 78 percent of evangelicals. John McCain, on his best day with an evangelical running mate, probably wouldn`t get those high numbers.
Social conservatives have historically been mistrustful of McCain. He`s criticized some of their leaders.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
GREEN: And in the last few years, he`s made an effort to get back there, but you know, if he is depending on evangelicals to win him the 2008 presidential race, he`s probably got a real tough row to hoe.
PAGLIARULO: Liz, does John McCain have the same sort of problem with Pastor John Hagee, who by the way, was misquoted, and Rod Parsley, who I think is way out there? Does he have the same sort of problems as Barack Obama had with Jeremiah Wright?
CHADDERDON: I think he has similar problems, and I think that`s exactly why he distanced himself from Hagee, because of those things that he said. And I think the Jeremiah Wright scandal certainly encouraged him to do that. He began to see the fallout. And I think it was probably a wise thing for him to do. It may cost him, though, within the evangelical community, and it will be interesting to see.
PAGLIARULO: John Hagee. I`m from San Antonio. I do a show in San Antonio and a show in Houston every day. John Hagee is a huge deal. Nationally, he`s a huge deal, but in San Antonio, 50,000 members go to that church every week. This guy is a major player when it comes to evangelicals.
And, again, he said some things against the Catholic Church that he apologized for, but the thing about Hitler and bringing the Jews to the promised land was an absolute misquote from the Associated Press. We`ll talk about that some other time.
I`ve got to -- I`ve got to wonder here, Stephen, people believe what they hear in the news. They believe that John Hagee was a major problem. People believe that he`s the same thing as Jeremiah Wright. Can McCain get past that, win over the evangelicals, or does he pick a Hillary Clinton or a Joe Lieberman and say, "Forget it. I`ll go for those 18 million"?
HAYES: No. I mean, look, comparing the Reverend Wright scandal and the Michael Pfleger scandal with what Reverend Hagee said is like, you know, comparing apples and steaks. I mean, we`re not even talking about fruit.
John McCain is going to be able to appeal to evangelicals, I think. But he`ll do it in a much more subtle way. I think Josh is right: he`s not going to be able to do this kind of religion on his sleeve campaigning that George W. Bush did and that Bill Clinton did, actually, more than George W. Bush did in the previous eight years.
PAGLIARULO: Yes.
HAYES: So I think he`ll talk about his faith. He`ll do it sparingly, and he`ll do it, probably, in the context of his time as a POW.
PAGLIARULO: Hey, Josh, I don`t think any of -- any of the four of us were around in 1960 when President Kennedy was running. But the big deal then was, "Oh, he`s a Catholic. He`s going to have the pope, you know, make law." Obviously, we had a freak-out about religion back then. Why such a freak-out in this? Is it because of Jeremiah Wright? Is it because of the parents or the step-parents, whatever Barack Obama, or a different religion? Why is it such a freak-out this time about religion?
GREEN: This is the age of YouTube. You can see pastors who you`re not familiar with saying things against the country, saying things against Catholics, saying all sorts of inflammatory things that you could put in a 30-second TV ad.
PAGLIARULO: Yes.
GREEN: And back in 1960, people really didn`t have that to think about.
PAGLIARULO: All right. Listen, great knowledge. Liz, Josh, Stephen, thank you very much.
Coming up right here, Democrats failed once again in their bid to impose a windfall profits tax on oil companies. No one likes paying $4 a gallon for gas, but taxing oil companies is not the answer. Details straight ahead.
And gas prices are just a part of the problem. These tough economic times are sure to bleed right into the next administration. So which candidate has the better economic plan? We`ll examine both in just a bit. Stick around.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: "Beck `08: Unelectable."
GLENN BECK, HOST: Well, hello, Portland, Maine. If you haven`t already noticed, I`m not on TV tonight. I mean, except for right now, but that`s a different story. It`s because I`m on my way to Portland, Maine, to see you. I`m bringing my summer tour, "Beck `08: Unelectable," to the Merrill Auditorium in downtown Portland. I`ll be there Wednesday night, June 11. Show starts at 7:30, and I`d love to see you there. Believe it or not, it`s a comedy show.
Purchase your tickets right now at GlennBeck.com.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO: Coming up, John McCain`s plan for our struggling economy. Is it, as critics say, a four-year extension of failed -- of a failed Bush policy, and of course by critics, I mean, Barack Obama keeps saying it. We`ll look beyond the rhetoric in just a bit.
But first, common sense will tell you do not bite the hand that feeds you, but Democrats don`t see it that way. Instead of working with the oil companies to help lower prices at the pump, Democrats had another failed attempt today at going after the oil companies. It was all part of the Consumer First Energy Act of 2008, a Bill supported by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. So hard for me to say Senate majority leader before that guy`s name. What was voted down today on the Hill.
Included in the Bill, a windfall profits tax on the big five oil companies. The tax would have taken away the $17 billion tax breaks that oil companies were promised over the next decade and added a 25 percent tax on any profits that are deemed over the reasonable amount. Nobody says what that amount is.
Taxing the big guys has failed in the past. So how exactly would shutting down innovation fueling revenue show more prices at the pump?
Joining me now, Stephen Moore, economic editorial writer for "The Wall Street Journal."
Stephen, I appreciate your time and your knowledge. And I`ve got to tell you, the Democrats right now, to me, are trying to tell the American public, "We care. We`re looking out for you. We`re going to hurt the big guys."
Bur first of all, what is reasonable for a windfall profits tax? And if you take away these billion dollars -- these billions of dollars in tax abatements, aren`t they going to just pass that on to us?
STEPHEN MOORE, ECONOMIC EDITORIAL WRITER, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": The big problem here, Joe, is that we tried a windfall profits tax back in the bad old days of the 1970s. And you may recall what happened then was we increased our dependence on foreign oil, and we reduced our domestic oil production, exactly the opposite of what the windfall tax is supposed to do.
It didn`t lead to lower prices: it led to higher prices, because the American companies, like Exxon and Mobile, reduced their production and their exploration. We need to be producing energy to bring prices down, exactly the opposite of what this Bill does.
PAGLIARULO: I think what we`re getting from the left side of the aisle, at least in Washington, is a bunch of rhetoric here. We had -- you know, Congress, a couple of weeks ago, we were going to pass a law that would allow us to sue OPEC to force them to raise production.
At the same time, on the other side of our mouth, we`re saying, we`ve got to stop our dependence on foreign oil. But to stop the dependence on foreign oil, we`re not allowed to drill anywhere. What are we supposed to think as the American public? Who do we believe, and what really would relieve the pump prices?
MOORE: Well, I think the No. 1 thing that reduces pump prices and actually to go after the speculators that are increasing the price of oil, Joe, would be to start making a declaration. If Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid went to the congressional floor right now and said, "We are going to lift the prohibitions against drilling for oil in Alaska, offshore, in the continental United States," Joe, that would have a huge impact on the price.
And you know what? There are now restrictions on coal, natural gas, oil, nuclear power. Where are we going to get our energy from? I mean, I`d love to ask that question to Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. If we can`t use our conventional sources of oil, where is the -- where is the oil going to come from?
PAGLIARULO: We`re hearing about oil down in the rocks in North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana. We`re hearing that it would cost $50 a barrel to get it out of the ground.
MOORE: That`s right.
PAGLIARULO: Why on earth aren`t we doing it?
And secondarily, China, Venezuela and Cuba, all our great friends, are about to start drilling off the coast of Cuba, which by the way, is 90 miles from Florida. So that`s going to be our resources they`re going down there and getting. What can we do to push Congress to do the right thing and start opening up more oil channels? Because even the environmentalists right now, who are paying $4.50 a gallon, I think would agree it`s time.
MOORE: Well, the Democrats are just very confused about this. Because, Joe, remember, what did they do last week? They had a big debate about the cap and trade global warming initiative that would have added a dollar or two dollars a gallon to gasoline.
So I think what we need to have the American public talk to their congressmen and senators and say, "My gosh, $130 a barrel oil, $4 to $5 gallon gasoline? Why are we not using our resources?"
Joe, every -- every gallon of oil that we don`t pump here is a dollar that goes to the Saudi Arabians and the Venezuelans and OPEC and the very cartel that the Democrats are trying to shut down.
PAGLIARULO: Yes. I`ve got about 30 seconds left here. About speculators, can`t the SEC get involved here and stop people from -- from basically gambling on the price of what we -- of what we built this country on in the 20th century? They are -- right now the price -- I talked to Stephen Forbes. It wasn`t very long ago, and he said $50, $60 barrel should be the top. How did we get here?
MOORE: Well, it`s because there are so many restrictions on production. Also, the U.S. dollar is low right now, Joe, too. And that`s made gas prices high.
But I`ll go back to what I said before. If you really want to hurt the speculators, which I want to do, let`s start producing our own homegrown resources.
PAGLIARULO: Yes.
MOORE: A new poll shows about 60 percent of Americans want to do this.
PAGLIARULO: Absolutely right.
Stephen, thank you so much. I appreciate the insight.
Coming up right here, never a dull moment in the Clinton household. Two women who claim to have had affairs with the former president have a new Web site that shares their thoughts about the alleged encounters, and it will only cost you $1.99. I`ll explain.
And Nick Hogan, son of wrestling star Hulk Hogan, may be out of solitary confinement, but he will not be getting out of jail any time soon. I`ll have the details, coming up.
And just a reminder: what better gift for Dad this Father`s Day than an autographed copy of "An Inconvenient Book"? That`s right. Keep Dad well-prepared this political season with Glenn`s solutions to our world`s biggest problems. Order right now and get it in time for Father`s Day. These special autographed editions are available only at GlennBeck.com.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO: Things have gone from bad to worse to flat-out horrible for former president, Bill Clinton.
First, "Vanity Fair" published a questionably-sourced article slamming his personal life. Then his wife, Hillary Clinton, admitted she`d lost the race for the Democratic nomination.
And now two women who claim they had sexual encounters with the former president have launched a Web site detailing their alleged accounts. Gennifer Flowers and Paula Jones -- yes, you never thought you`d hear those names again, right -- are selling their tales for just $1.99 apiece.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GENNIFER FLOWERS, ALLEGES AFFAIR WITH BILL CLINTON: Hi, ladies and gentlemen and welcome. Welcome today to Two Chicks Talking. That`s right, I`m Gennifer Flowers, and you`ll be meeting Paula Jones here shortly.
What we`ve done is we`ve gotten together, and we`ve just had a lot of really interesting conversations about the experiences that we share. So sit back, relax and enjoy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAGLIARULO: That`s so cheesy. Anybody got $1.99? Listen, I`d rather go ahead and buy a McGriddle or something than buy one of their stories.
Joining me right now, Joshua Green, senior editor of "The Atlantic."
Josh, come on, this is amazing to me.
GREEN: Wow.
PAGLIARULO: This is -- this is so cheese ball, so horrible. We actually went to the Web site -- for research purposes only -- and found it to be -- not only is it cheesy, but it`s almost desperate.
GREEN: I guess it`s tough economic times for everybody. The candidates aren`t proposing, like, a crass opportunist tax cut.
PAGLIARULO: Do you think here it is, almost 20 years later from the first time he ran for president, that anybody even cares about these women any more?
GREEN: You know, besides Ken Starr, I can`t think of anybody who`d pony up $1.99 for these sites. And I mean, just even the promos. What happened to Gennifer Flowers? I mean, she looks like she spent all her money on Botox.
PAGLIARULO: Be nice. Be nice. Come on. You`re right, when she popped up on the screen -- again, we went there for research purposes -- I had no idea it was her.
And there`s a picture of Paula Jones on this Web site, too, where she`s almost -- she`s wearing a bikini or less. I mean, I`m not really sure what the story is here. These people have had their 15 minutes and then some, and it`s time to move on.
But do you think politically this is going to matter to anybody when they hear about it?
GREEN: No, I don`t think so. I mean, other than giving people a good laugh. I mean, I can`t even believe Bill Clinton would log on and see this sort of thing. You know, when he surfs the Web, he`s not looking for Two Chicks Talking.
PAGLIARULO: Two Chicks Talking who he probably has already spent some time with, allegedly and according to some people.
OK. So you see -- you see things like this. And had Hillary won the nomination, do you think this would have mattered more? Or again, this is just something stupid from a couple of people who are dying for fame that they`ve lost now?
GREEN: I`m going to go with the latter answer, Joe. I think, you know, at some point in your adult life, people expect you to get meaningful work. And I mean, what, Applebee`s wasn`t hiring? I mean, this is -- this is -- this is sort of desperate and sad.
PAGLIARULO: We all know that Bill Clinton, certainly, had -- had morals that were questionable when he was in the White House. I mean, the whole admitted thing with Monica Lewinski, whatever. I mean, that`s -- we know about the alleged affairs and so on and so forth.
But at some point don`t we just stop caring about it? He is who he is. Either you liked as a president, either you liked his policies, you liked what he got done or didn`t get done. And in between that, he`s just kind of -- well, he`s somebody who lives his life in a different way than many of us -- than many of the others of us care to do.
You hear story after story after story. Now, the latest thing is Gina Gershon, who`s saying that she didn`t have an affair with him. Why do we keep on going back to this as a pop culture? Can you put your finger on that at all?
GREEN: No. No, I can`t, but we sure seem to, don`t we? You know, the most interesting thing out of all this. I never thought I`d say these words, but doesn`t Monica Lewinski look kind of classy in comparison?
PAGLIARULO: Wow. Nice line. Hey, listen, this thing, we`re not going to give the Web site. Hopefully, people don`t go and pay for it. Josh, we appreciate your knowledge. Thank you, sir.
GREEN: Good to be with you, Joe.
PAGLIARULO: OK. Up next, who`s the better man to fix our nation`s struggling economy? We`re going to examine the economic plans of both candidates and let you decide. Stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO: Coming up, Hulk Hogan`s son is out of solitary confinement, but his problems are just beginning. Maybe the Hogans should start focusing on the reality of their problems instead of the reality TV shows.
We`re going to have that story in just a bit.
But first, if you think the economy is in bad shape, you are in good company. A new CNN poll shows that 78 percent of all Americans rate the U.S. economy as poor. But economic worries sweeping the country, the likely presidential nominees are wasting no time trying to convince us that they`re the right ones to fix it.
Obama, who spoke yesterday and today, suggested a new round of rebate checks totaling $50 billion in middle class tax cuts. I don`t how he`s going to pay for it. He also made abundantly clear that he believes McCain`s economic policies will be a four-year extension of President Bush`s. We haven`t heard that before. He even used Bush`s name 15 times in yesterday`s speech.
McCain, for his part, focused on small businesses and took the opportunity to rail against the type of change his opponent is promising.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No matter which of us wins in November, there will be change in Washington. The question is, what kind of change?
Will we go back to the policies of the `60s and `70s that failed, or will we go forward? Will we enact the largest single tax increase since the Second World War, as my opponent proposes, or will we keep taxes low, low for families and employers?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAGLIARULO: Whoa. We saw some passion there from McCain.
Both candidates are riding the whole "change" thing to death. So it begs the question, what kind of economic policy can we expect from a McCain presidency? Will it be an extension of the Bush administration policies? Which I think I heard a certain candidate say it would be.
Or how about Senator Obama? The largest tax increase since World War II does not sound like the kind of change I`m looking for.
Here to help sort things out are Liz Chadderdon, Democratic strategist and president of The Chadderdon Group.
Liz, thanks.
Joshua Green, the senior editor of "The Atlantic." And Stephen Hayes of "The Weekly Standard" and author of "Cheney: The Untold Story of America`s Most Powerful and Controversial Vice President."
OK. Everybody thinks the economy stinks, we`re all going to agree on that. But now we hear about Barack Obama, new checks in the mail. We`re all going to get -- look at that, a new rebate. But somebody`s got to pay for it.
Liz, want to start with you.
How exactly does Barack Obama expect to pay for another rebate, $50 billion worth, and give a tax cut to a lot of Americans?
CHADDERDON: Well, it`s actually really simple, Joe. What he`s going to do, first and foremost, is get us the heck out of Iraq, which has cost us over a trillion dollars over the last five years. It`s time for our soldiers to come home, it`s time for those tax dollars to come back to America. And he`s going to repeal the Bush tax cuts, which really only benefited the most wealthy families in America.
Both of those together will absolutely give him the money that he needs to really give economic relief to people who need it the most.
PAGLIARULO: Those are excellent talking points. They`re false, but they`re excellent talking points.
The first thing is the war, you know, is off budget. None of that is coming out of the taxpayer rolls right now. It`s all being paid for in loans that we shouldn`t be getting. You and I aren`t going to argue about that, but that`s not how he`s going to pay for it, and you know it.
And this whole thing about Bush only giving tax cuts to the upper echelon is not true. You know it, I know it.
CHADDERDON: It`s true. No. No.
PAGLIARULO: You got a tax cut, I got a tax cut, everybody in between got a tax cut. All right.
Stephen I want to go to you. How do you feel when you hear stuff like this? Stephen?
HAYES: I`m having some trouble hearing you. I can`t hear the question.
PAGLIARULO: That`s OK. Can you hear me now?
All right. He`s having a problem.
Why don`t we go to the other guest and have you jump in? Go ahead.
GREEN: Well, how do I feel? I feel like Liz has a few points, you have a few points too. I mean, you know, pulling troops out of Iraq is not going to balance the budget. But the fact is, Bush`s tax cuts benefit the extremely wealthy more than they benefit the middle class. So...
PAGLIARULO: Of course they do. And...
GREEN: So Obama rolling back Bush`s tax cuts...
PAGLIARULO: Right?
GREEN: ... is going to provide a lot of government revenue that will help pay for some of these taxes -- the middle class tax cut, you know, eliminating, I think, income tax on seniors who make under $50,000.
PAGLIARULO: Yes.
GREEN: So, to Obama`s credit, he said how he`s going to pay for a lot of these things.
PAGLIARULO: Well...
(CROSSTALK)
GREEN: You may not like it.
PAGLIARULO: Josh, I want to jump in here because I don`t want the misinformation to continue. Everybody got a tax cut. Anybody who pays taxes got a tax cut.
GREEN: Right. Right. But me and you -- me and Liz got small ones.
PAGLIARULO: OK. Yes, and I got a huge one, I`m sure.
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: Yes, I did. You have to understand, everybody got a tax cut, and it`s exponential on how you -- on what sort of income you have. Of course those who are paying more got more back, but they`re still paying a whole heck of a lot more than anybody else in between.
Liz, I`ll let you jump back in here because, why make up this whole war is what`s costing us all this money stuff when you knew darn well that it`s not coming out of the budget?
CHADDERDON: Well, and I appreciate your point on that, Joe, but let`s be honest, you said it yourself, who`s paying for the war? Loans are paying for the war.
You make payments on loans, I make payments on loans, the American people are making payments right now on the loans that are funding this war. If we can end the war, we end the loans and we end the payment. And we are talking about a lot of money that can come back and do real good here in America.
PAGLIARULO: Yes, but ending the war and getting that money back and stopping the payments of these loans is not going to directly affect another rebate that Barack Obama wants to put out there, which by the way we can probably all agree is just a political game that he`s saying, look, I`ll give you more money, just elect me.
Stephen, I think that your audio is all fixed here.
HAYES: Right.
PAGLIARULO: If you could, let`s go down the list here. John McCain, economically, will it be four more years of Bush? Then conversely, Barack Obama, is he making promises that he can`t pay for, which I think he is?
HAYES: Yes, I think Barack Obama is making promises he can`t pay for. I mean, if you go down and look at the laundry list of new programs and new public service opportunities he`s talking about for young people, somebody`s got to pay for these things, and he`s not simply coming up with the money to do it.
Now, what was interesting to me is, in an interview yesterday, Barack Obama, who has talked about raising capital gains taxes, the estate taxes, you know, as John McCain said this morning, large tax increases, sort of de facto tax increases, seems to back off of some of those proposals by saying, well, of course as president, I would have to reexamine some of these policies in the context of our economic situation at the time. So I`m not -- you know, I don`t want to be held to doing these things. It sounds to me like he`s backing off in preparation for a general election run in which he`s much less strident on the need to raise taxes.
PAGLIARULO: Hey Liz, I`ll give you a chance to attack again here.
John McCain`s backing off of something, too. He talked about getting rid of the federal gas tax for a while, from Memorial Day to Labor Day. We haven`t heard about it a lot. He`s actually running away from that now.
It would have saved 18 cents a gallon, which doesn`t sound a lot when you`re paying, you know, $4.25, but it would have done something. He`s running away from that.
Was that a bad policy to bring up? Do you think that that was flawed from the beginning?
CHADDERDON: I do think it was flawed from the beginning. When he first came up with it, every major economist in the country disagreed, said that was absolutely not the right thing to do. And the truth is, is that 18 cents a gallon, I don`t know, Joe. That would actually help me when I fill up my tank, probably everybody else too.
But if economists are saying it`s the wrong thing to do, it`s probably pretty smart for McCain to listen. And I`m actually glad that he listened to them.
PAGLIARULO: Hey, Josh, do you think that it`s smart for Barack Obama and John McCain to run away from even talking about gas prices right now and just talk about the general economy? And how much is what McCain said a couple of months ago -- I don`t know anything about the economy -- how much is that going to hurt him going forward here? What a dumb thing to say.
GREEN: Well, he had said a couple of dumb things, which I think is why Barack Obama will not run away from talking about the gas tax. You know, he himself has managed to exploit the situation a little bit by proposing a windfall profits tax on oil companies.
PAGLIARULO: Which is very stupid. We`re going to talking about that later on. That`s just dumb.
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: Well, so he`s not beyond a bit of political theater himself. But on the overall question, you`ve got -- you know, Obama`s talking point is that John McCain is a third term for George W. Bush, but in terms of economic policy, that really is a fact. McCain wants to extent the Bush tax cuts.
Now, whether you agree with that or you don`t agree with that, you know, that`s a third term for McCain`s -- for Bush`s economic policy. So it`s something that plays to Obama`s larger message.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
GREEN: It gets people focused on the fact that the economy is in the gutter.
PAGLIARULO: Great to hear from all of you.
I`ve got to tell you something, though. It`s a lot of rhetoric right now, a lot of political campaigning and a lot of promises being made. We`re not hearing real results yet. We`ll see if that happens soon.
Liz, Josh, Stephen, thank you.
Coming up right here, more drama for Hulk Hogan and his family as son Nick continues to serve his eight-month prison sentence. But as the Hogans` problems multiply, so, too, do their television contracts. What`s up with that?
We`ll have that story next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO: Poor Nick Hogan. After pleading no contest to causing a car crash that critically injured his friend, he began serving an eight-month jail sentence in solitary confinement. He called home to complain that his cell was the size of his bathroom and there was no way he could live like that for eight months.
Perhaps, Nick, don`t drive like an idiot.
Apparently someone took pity on him because he`s now since been transferred to a communal cell in which he`s sharing now with three other juvenile inmates. Doubtful any of this real-life drama will make it into the Hogan family`s new reality shows.
Hulk has been busy with "American Gladiators" and his celebrity championship wrestling show out this fall. Sister Brooke has her own version of "Hogan Knows Best" now." That`s going to debut on VH1 this summer.
Anyone else think that it`s time for this family to maybe focus on their actual issues like car accidents that hurt people badly in divorce instead of made-for-TV ones?
Pam Bondi is a Florida state prosecutor. Kim Serafin is a senior editor of "In Touch Weekly."
Ladies, thank you so much for joining me.
Pam, I want to start with you. You know, this whole big thing just came out now where Hulk Hogan is talking to Nick Hogan -- and that`s not their real names, either one of them -- and they were talking on the phone in jail. Somebody recorded it.
First of all, is it standard operating practice to record a conversation between an inmate and somebody visiting or calling in? Secondly, how does that tape get out?
PAM BONDI, FLORIDA STATE PROSECUTOR: Joe, it`s standard practice in every county jail, and there are huge signs posted everywhere. So it`s crystal clear to the inmate, to the visitors that they are being recorded.
It`s a public record. If the media wants to see it, they are more than entitled to see it. Sheriff Coats (ph) in Pinellas County acted well within his rights by releasing that video, and it sure didn`t do Nick Bollea any good, in my opinion.
PAGLIARULO: No, it really didn`t. And that`s Nick Hogan`s real name.
BONDI: Yes.
PAGLIARULO: If we can -- I`m talking to the booth now -- maybe let`s roll a little bit of that tape has been released now.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
NICK HOGAN: Had I known this, I would have rather gone to trial, or I would rather, you know, appeal the case or something because, like, I can`t deal with this for eight months. It`s like half the size of my bathroom.
LINDA HOGAN: Oh!
N. HOGAN: No windows or nothing. And, like, just one little, like -- you know, like top bed thing.
L. HOGAN: Oh my god.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PAGLIARULO: There he`s not talking to Hulk Hogan, because that would be kind of funny if his voice sounded like that. That would be Linda Hogan.
Now, Hulk Hogan later on talks about the actual victim in this accident, what a bad guy he was. He was a negative guy.
You know, Kim, I`ve got to ask you about this. Hulk Hogan is somebody who, even though he played a bad guy for a while in wrestling, is somebody who`s really rather loved in pop culture by Americans. When they walk away from this, he`s got problems now, doesn`t he?
KIM SERAFIN, SR. EDITOR, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Yes, I mean, I think he has to obviously address this. I mean, that is why he has these successful reality TV shows, why he has another one, as you mentioned, coming out in the fall, why he`s part of "American Gladiators," it`s because people identify with him and they like him, they like his personality.
And I think when these tapes were released and you heard that side, you know, you heard Hulk Hogan saying, oh, he was a negative person. And then you heard him and Nick sort of strategizing about the reality show that was going to happen when Nick was getting out of jail, basically profiting off John Graziano`s brain damage.
PAGLIARULO: Yes, right.
SERAFIN: You know, such a tragedy.
I think a lot of people were really upset and thought that was just irresponsible. And I do think it`s something that Hulk Hogan needs to address. I mean, he is, like I said, such a famous personality, and that`s why he has these reality shows.
PAGLIARULO: It`s an important program note that Hulk Hogan is going to answer to these -- you know, to that stupid tape that he made in talking to his son. He`s going to answer to it in an interview right here on CNN with Larry King later on tonight.
Now, Pam, I have got to ask you about this. So many people -- so much argument about this, so much debate about this. Did Nick Hogan get off easy on this because he is Hulk Hogan`s son? Did he get what you thought he would get? And I think the wildcard here is, did the judge decide on an eight-month sentence because he believed his remorse, which obviously is just faked?
BONDI: Exactly. Yes, I think he got a sentence that was appropriate given that the victims came in to court -- John Graziano`s family -- and they asked for anywhere between six months and 12 months in the county jail. Of course the judge could have sentenced him to up to five years in prison.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
BONDI: But a judge gives a lot of weight to a victim`s family. And we`ve got to remember, this kid`s on five years of probation to follow his jail time. He has 500 community service hours. He can`t have any alcohol the entire term for the next five years. He can`t drive.
So we`ll see how he does when he gets out.
Now, I think like you said, he`s blown it on the remorse part.
PAGLIARULO: Yes.
BONDI: When they were critical of John Graziano, that was in such poor taste. And it`s not enough to violate him, but I guarantee you, if he does violence for another reason, when he`s out on supervision to follow his jail time, that`s going to be back of that judge`s head, that this kid wasn`t severe, he didn`t mean what he said when he apologized to the family.
PAGLIARULO: Yes.
BONDI: So that could factor in to any potential violation down the road.
PAGLIARULO: Hey, Kim, he and his father talked -- well his father talked about -- Hulk said, hey, when you get out, we`ll get you a reality show. I mean, is that in his future? Do you think people are going to buy this? Do you think people want to watch this dork have his own show now?
SERAFIN: I hope not. I mean, it seems too early to be talking about that. And again, Hulk Hogan, who has been in the public eye for such a long time, you know, should have known better, just because the way it`s being portrayed.
I mean, I hope Nick gets out. You know, I hope he takes the time in jail, not to think of reality show titles, as they were discussing on the phone call.
PAGLIARULO: Yes.
SERAFIN: It was like, should it be "The New Nick?" Take that time, Nick, to think of a new title for the show. It should be, take the time that you`re in jail to think about what happened and what you did, and how can you better your life when you get out, not how can we strategize the next reality show and how you can make the most money.
I wouldn`t watch that personally. I think a lot of people would have trouble watching that.
PAGLIARULO: He`s taken the time to remember his bathroom at home, which is crazy.
Pam, Kim, thank you very much.
BONDI: Thank you.
PAGLIARULO: Really appreciate it.
Time now for tonight`s "Real America," brought to you by CSX.
Entertainer Joe poise Piscopo is known for making people laugh, but he has another side to him that is more about sacrifice than comedy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAGLIARULO (voice over): He`s a comedian best known for his celebrity impersonations, going back to his days on "Saturday Night Live." So why is Joe Piscopo talking about kids, guns, drugs and crime? Well, he says because no one else is.
JOE PISCOPO, COMEDIAN: People don`t want to hear it. Someone`s popped right on the street out here just selling drugs a few blocks away. A hundred million dollars a year selling drugs.
Drug dealers paying off people just to keep their mouths shut. You know what? You`ve got to look at yourself. Would you be in that situation?
How are you doing? Good to see you, everybody. Hi, guys.
PAGLIARULO: Piscopo decided the best way he could help was to use his influence to shine a light on organizations reaching kids at risk. So he started the Positive Impact Foundation.
PISCOPO: Positive Impact Foundation creates positive (INAUDIBLE) children. That`s the way to reach the kids, is to portray a positive message that will portray hope, that will teach self-esteem and character to these kids. Because when you put the camera on these kids, you say, you know, you`re doing good things.
PAGLIARULO: One organization Joe`s foundation supports is the United Community Center in Camden, New Jersey. Ranked as the fifth most dangerous city in the entire country, Camden has it`s problems. But when you step through these doors, you wouldn`t know it.
ROBERT DICKERSON, FOUNDER OF UCC: In 1983, myself, my wife Wanda Dickerson (ph), we wanted to do something for the community here in Camden, New Jersey. We decided to start off programs that we believe that would draw the children, and we thought the performing arts was the best.
We have been really -- a lot of great accomplishments that we have had in that area was due to the discipline courses of the martial arts. The cultural experience.
PAGLIARULO: Since 1984, Dickerson says that 10,000 children have come through the center and believes they have touched more than 30,000 kids through their work with churches, YMCAs and the Boys and Girls Clubs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s crime all around them, yet they stay centered and take these kids in, in a store front.
AYANNA DICKERSON, 20 YEARS OLD: I lost a lot of friends to violence, guns, all sorts of things. So I`m thinking, like, that could have been me if I wasn`t in the community center.
MUNIR GRIFFIN, 12 YEARS OLD: I would be on the street just, like, getting in trouble, selling drugs. Probably getting shot or in a graveyard. It`s a savior.
PISCOPO: This is something that completely humbles me as a human being, and it gives you a purpose as a human being.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PAGLIARULO: And if you would like to see more stories just like this one, click on cnn.com/glenn and look for the "Real America" section.
Tonight`s "Real America" sponsored by CSX, how tomorrow moves.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAGLIARULO: There is a heavyweight battle taking place in Hollywood today as two of Tinsel Town`s most famous directors trade jabs over war movies.
CNN`s Brooke Anderson has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROOKE ANDERSON, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He`s known for tough talking.
CLINT EASTWOOD, ACTOR, DIRECTOR: Go ahead, make my day.
ANDERSON: He`s known for hard-hitting films.
DENZEL WASHINGTON, ACTOR: We didn`t land on Plymouth Rock. Plymouth Rock landed on us.
ANDERSON: Now, Clint Eastwood and Spike Lee, two of America`s most respected directors, have gone after each other in an escalating verbal battle. "A guy like Spike should shut his face." And Clint, "Sounds like an angry old man," are just two of the barbs tossed at each other.
It all began at the Cannes Film Festival, where Lee, promoting his upcoming World War II film about black soldiers, criticized Eastwood`s movies, "Letters from Iwo Jima" and "Flags of our Fathers," for failing to depict African-American soldiers.
Kirk Honeycutt, of the "Hollywood Reporter," believes the criticism is unfair.
KIRK HONEYCUTT, CHIEF FILM CRITIC, THE "HOLLYWOOD REPORTER": One movie was about flying the flag at the top of Iwo Jima, "Flags of our Fathers." And those characters were all white, save for one Indian character who was cast that way. This was about people who were largely white.
The second movie, "Letters from Iwo Jima," was about the Japanese army. And I don`t think the Japanese army had any black soldiers in it.
ANDERSON: Eastwood, who after explaining the films were historically accurate, advised Lee to quote, "Shut his face." Lee then blasted Eastwood, through ABCNews.com, hinting at racism -- "The man is not my father and we`re not on a plantation. He sounds like an angry old man."
Mark Sawyer, director of the Center for the Study of Race, Ethnicity and Politics at UCLA, asserts Lee`s take on Eastwood`s films, has merit.
MARK SAWYER, UCLA CTR. FOR RACE, ETHNICITY & POLITICS: It`s a fair criticism in general, about films about World War II and American wars in general. Clint Eastwood`s film was sort of bearing the burden of hundreds of films about World War II that have ignored the presence of African- American troops.
ANDERSON: Brooke Anderson, CNN, Hollywood.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PAGLIARULO: And now it`s time for me to shut my face.
I`m Joe Pags, filling in for Glenn Beck, back tomorrow.
From New York, for now, good night.
END
